Before Receiving Federal Disaster Aid- Red State Residents Should View Footage Of Their Reps

[KittyWampus]

voting against aid to Sandy victims.

Not talking about withholding aid…. just make them view footage of their Reps voting against aid and maybe even them railing against "Big Government".

It'd take very little time. But it might sink in for some people.

[CBGLuthier]

1. Why?

What purpose will it serve? Will it elevate your mood? Will it bring back the dead children?

I believe Mr. Gandhi said it best, an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

6. BIG +1!!!!!!!!!!!

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. This.

[Squinch]

40. That's not an eye for an eye. That's "this is what we are absolutely going to do for you

because your need is clear and we are all humans. This very same thing is what the representatives you elected wanted to deny to us."

Big difference.

[MuseRider]

52. SHAME them!

Shame them, they could not possibly know their reps did this could they?

Hey, my reps voted the same way and almost every single thing I have seen as far as editorial comments and comments from people I know have been horrified that they did that.

[KittyWampus]

53. I said specifically NOT WITHHOLDING AID. What part of that don't you understand?

[premium]

57. Here's what you said.

Before Receiving Federal Disaster Aid- Red State Residents Should View Footage Of Their Reps
voting against aid to Sandy victims.

That would mean delaying it until they saw the video. And considering that those that need it don't have electricity, or even homes, how would you have them view any video? Set up a big tent, bring in generators, TV's and have them watch it?

[jeff47]

62. So in your mind, people can deliver aid, but not hook up a television

to the vehicle carrying the aid?

We sent people to the fucking moon. We can handle something this stupidly easy.

[cali]

63. bzzzt. fail. fail. fucking fail.

You said they had to watch it before receiving aid. you made it mandatory.

Sick shameful shit. sad to know people on DU think like you.

[gopiscrap]

2. Agreed!

[premium]

18. Why?

What's the reason? So you can feel a little bit better? Meanwhile, you delay aid to those that need it desperately.
One of the dumbest ideas I've seen here today.

[Squinch]

41. So that the actions of the representatives that they elect can be understood in context.

Nothing to do with feeling better. It has to do with getting consensus that this question should not be rehashed when a disaster hits YOU.

[premium]

42. I highly doubt that the people struck by this disaster really

give a fuck what their reps. said, and making them watch what they said before they get the aid is a fucking dumbass idea.

[Squinch]

44. I suspect the actual plan was hyperbole. But I think it is perfectly legitimate

to point out that the representatives elected by the good people of Oklahoma worked hard to deny assistance to people who had been through a disaster that was just as devastating.

Edited to add: while providing all the assistance that the good people of Oklahoma need.

[premium]

47. IMO, that smacks of meanness and pettiness,

which is what I would expect of the repukes. It should be no strings attached.

[Squinch]

50. There are no strings attached. We will fight for their receipt of the aid. I don't think it's mean

to point out that we'd appreciate if they would do the same the next time the shoe is on the other foot. As they did NOT the last time the shoe was on the other foot. I just don't see that as mean, or vengeful, or a problem.

If we are neighbors, and I need to borrow your weed whacker you say no, and then you come to me and need to borrow my hedge clipper and I say, "Of course you can borrow my hedgeclipper, and you are welcomed to it. But I'd like you to remember that the next time I need to borrow the weedwhacker" I don't see that as vengeful or mean. I see that as making a point in the nicest way possible. We are INSISTING that they should be getting the aid they need. And we are saying, so should everyone else.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

3. So let me get this strait...

So you want to guilt people who are in mental turmoil?


If ever there was the need for the un-rec button back...

[LonePirate]

7. People who vote for Repubs need to be shown the error of their ways

Now is the perfect time as it puts their voting behavior in perspective with regard to the reality of their current lives. If they don't learn now, they never will.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

11. You go doing things like this, you will make them vote them back in spite!

But go ahead! Try to guilt those in pain! They will retaliate at the ballot box for it! So will others that see you doing such a thing to people in pain.

People will see Liberals no better than the Conservatives.

But go ahead! God help us if this dumb idea ever happens!

[treestar]

33. Out of spite?

This post has me shaking my head.

How will liberal ideas ever win out? They get to benefit from liberal programs. Then we can say nothing to them about being wrong. Because if we do they get to spitefully vote against such programs for others having benefitted themselves from same. And they have your sympathy and support in this. Incredible.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

66. It won't just be Reps doing it.

You will push those that were (till you try to group guilt them) liberal leaning to do it.

You think that will really teach people something? Just to hate our side, that is just about it.

People in general bite back when you try and treat them like this. And how will they bite back you think????

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. Hmm, people need to be shown the error of thier ways...

That's a pretty frightening mindset.

[LonePirate]

32. Frightening is the fact that most Dems do not realize Repubs play politics like a blood sport

Being nice to hard core red staters will never change their minds. We need to shove it in their faces how their screwed up by reminding them their votes have consequences. If Coburn and Inhofe want their citizens to pull themselves up by their boot straps, then by all means we need to let the people of Oklahoma know that.

[Squinch]

48. This is a fact. Those guys from OK worked hard to prevent aid from getting to disaster victims.

Why is it immoral to point that out?

[npk]

17. So in other words, "Either think and vote like we do, or starve to death."

Wow what great motivation to bring them around to "YOUR" way of thinking. Nice to know your idea of compassion applies only to those who think like you do.

[treestar]

31. Isn't that the exact thing the

Right wing says? The cognitive dissonance here is weird. Are you so saintly that the very people who say you should starve if you don't work hard enough to insure against all bad luck and don't deserve any help from others (or it is stealing from them) should not even have to think about the consequences of their opinions when they are proven wrong by their own experience

[npk]

36. Bravo!!!!!! Treestar

Yes lets by all means avail ourselves with the utmost concern to make sure that anyone who makes bad choices in their lives or who may not have the same understanding and wisdom that you posses is first made to ponder and then reflect on their choices in life, at the expense of receiving aid and assistance. I wonder if you share this same sentiment for the millions of homeless people that have made equally bad decision throughout their lives, or perhaps a young man that has turned his back to a proper education and decided to sell drugs or join a gang. Should we offer them assistance or not. And how long should they have to think and ponder the consequences of their ill formed decisions before we welcome them back into our good graces.

And since when do we hold all people responsible for the way they voted in times of crisis or despair.

[premium]

38. ^^^THIS^^^

[treestar]

64. We are talking about right wingers!

Where did you bring in this homeless man? Is he a right winger who voted for there to be no aid to a homeless man?

Why are right wingers now allowed to be so inconsistent. Of course they get the aid, but what the hell is wrong with asking them if maybe they have not changed their minds? LIke maybe the government is spending other people's money on them (they love to refer to any government social program as "stealing other people's money.&quot And maybe they needed it? And maybe they should reconsider their stance?

Though many of them would probably think they deserve help, it's just others who don't.

But they were the ones voting for the idea that the government should not be the vehicle to help anyone. It should all be via private charity. That's what they wanted and why they voted in Inhofe and Coburn. Their votes have consequences. The ones THEY wanted or they would have voted for some Dennis-Kucinich-like creature to represent them.

[npk]

65. Re:

Ok so we should ask right wingers or people you "believe" are right wingers why they should get aid or federal monies since they voted for some Republican. You of course are assuming that just because they voted for the Republican, that they agree with everything that the man/woman stands for. You also assume, I guess, that the whole state of Oklahoma votes Republican. Because if you don't how are we going to "ask" those correct people if they would like to rethink their political stance before or after they have received federal aid.

Yes it's frustrating when tea partiers run their mouth and say stupid crap, but that is just the way it is. And asking those idiots if they think they should change their stance on federal aid after a disaster hits their town, is like asking a 5 year old if they are sorry for throwing the plate of food onto the floor. You are still going to have to clean the plate of food up, regardless of what the 5 year old says.

[Squinch]

43. No. It's the opposite. It's "we will help you out whether or not you think like we do.

And we would like you to return the favor when we are the ones in need."

I see nothing wrong with giving them the aid they need while pointing out that their elected representatives were dead set against doing the same for others in need just as great.

[kentauros]

45. I have no problem with that tactic.

Where I have a problem is with those that want revenge, to deny aid in order to shame those that voted against Sandy aid. What none of them seem to understand with that reprehensible idea is that shaming the RW never works. You can't shame someone that is heartless.

[Squinch]

46. This isn't shaming. This is pointing to a fact. Nothing to do with shaming. Those guys

in fact worked hard to prevent federal aid when I was hit by a disaster. If that fact is shameful, then perhaps the fact should be changed in the next election.

I haven't seen revenge. I've seen a lot of people saying, "Yes we absolutely need to give them whatever they need. But aren't they the ones that voted in the guys who didn't want to give us the aid when we needed it? Are they aware of that fact?" I may be mistaken, but that's the attitude I see.

[premium]

49. The problem is that the OP

said that perhaps aid should be withheld until the residents see a video of how their reps. voted for the Sandy aid.
How is that not mean and petty?

[Squinch]

51. As I said upthread, I took that as hyperbole. BUt I wouldn't be averse to seeing a

bunch of well worded editorials in the OK papers and news shows that point out that the residents of OK voted in guys who tried to deny assistance to others in need, but that those very "others" voted FOR aid for OK when the need arose.

[premium]

54. Ok, that sounds fair

as long as the aid wasn't delayed, as the OP suggested.

[Squinch]

56. No of course not. We have just seen the kind of additional and unnecessary

havoc that can be caused by desperately needed aid that is delayed. For 8 months. It would be inhuman to impose that on anyone. Again.

They should get the aid as soon as is humanly possible.

And this question of whether disaster victims should be aided by the rest of the country should become one that is never asked again.

[premium]

59. I agree

there should never be ANY question of whether disaster victims should be aided by the rest of the country, after all, we're all in this together, whether we were directly affected or not.

Last night when they said that as many as 24 children may be dead at that collapsed school, she burst out in tears, I had a lump in my throat, just overjoyed that the toll wasn't nearly that.

[kentauros]

67. Whether you call it shaming or not,

it is the epitome of the very definition of shame/shaming and why "pointing to a fact" won't do a damn thing in getting them to think (much less act) differently. They simply do not care. If they did, we wouldn't be having this conversation

As for not seeing other DUers looking for revenge against reps and senators that voted against Sandy aid, I give you the following:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2874431

And a few more:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2873969
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014488176#post4 (look for more from that one in that subthread)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022872809#post3


I don't blame you for not catching these, but all you have to do is look at some of the larger subthreads and how the compassionate DUers are taking them to task for their revenge-worded posts. And it's rampant on DU right now.

[Squinch]

68. So is your problem that the people hit by this disaster are being mistreated

by those who would remind them that their elected officials tried to deny aid to disaster victims?

Or is it that you think they are too insensitive to care as people point out their legislator's actions?

I don't believe either of those things. I think it is legitimate to point out that the OK elected officials did try to deny aid to disaster victims, and I believe that the citizens of OK are likely to care about that. I believe in the future, the people of OK will consider their elected official's position on aid for disaster victims when deciding who to vote for.

Yes, I think we can agree that three posters went over the line. But I think your insistence that the people of OK just don't care and will not consider the effect of their vote in the future in light of their own misfortune, is not too much more flattering.

[kentauros]

69. You seem to be misinterpreting everything I'm saying.

I'm going to assume that's a flaw and not deliberate.

Number one, my problem is with my "fellow" DUers that insist the only way to make the people of Oklahoma learn is to deny them aid because their reps and senators voted against aid to Sandy victims. I find such behaviour heartless and unbecoming of what I consider to be a Liberal. (Think of the meaning for "bleeding heart Liberal.&quot

Number two, I was originally agreeing with you that we should point out their elected officials' voting records even as we give the people of Oklahoma all the aid they require. I guess you missed that part because I disagree with it doing any good in the hearts and minds of those same elected officials. Their constituents will likely react differently, as I've read so far according to residents' posts to Inhofe's FB page.

Number three, I never once insisted that the people of Oklahoma just don't care. I've never been talking about them. I've only ever been referring to their elected officials. Their attitudes and voting are a matter of public record, and they truly do not care about anyone but themselves. If they did, we wouldn't be having this (hopefully mistaken) argument.

[Squinch]

73. Ah. Then I did misunderstand you.

My hope is that the people of OK will remember all this next election day, and those elected officials will be booted. It looks like Coburn is already quitting.

[kentauros]

74. And I just read a post talking about that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2879197

Sorry I wasn't clearer earlier

[winter is coming]

4. Wow! That would be a great idea... if the folks receiving aid still had televisions

or a wall to plug the TV into.

[npk]

9. People have ipads and iphones you know

I mean who can't pull up a short video on their ipad while they are sifting through the rubble of what was once their home. Geeeesh.

[egduj]

5. You're a great representative of the Democratic party.

Keep making this country great!

[premium]

8. Probably not a good idea.

Besides the fact that if would be perceived as cruel and vindictive, it would turn really piss of the American people.

[cali]

10. wtf? that's sick.

[Puzzledtraveller]

12. Good, it's not just me then

[Lady Freedom Returns]

16. No, not just you.

[premium]

20. No, it's not just you,

it's pretty much all of us with the exception of a couple here.

[loli phabay]

35. no its not just you, theres still kids missing and some

Want to make political hay. If anyone really tried to pull this they should be shunned by all decent people.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

13. +1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This idea is something conservatives would dream up!

[kentauros]

22. All the DINOs are coming out of the woodwork on this one.

With a fairly thick sprinkling of regional prejudice.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

24. Tell me about it!

All over the internet they are coming out and scarily sounding more like hard core Repukes.

[treestar]

28. So republicans get the best of both

They get aid for themselves whe voting that others should not.

But we have to suck it up when they win. We get no aid and no one does.

There is no motive for them to change.

I think you are all missing the point in order to enjoy some self righteousness.

[premium]

29. I'm not missing the point at all,

it's still a sick dumbass idea.

[cali]

34. yes indeedy. reeducation camps are such a good idea. YOU are the one missing the point, genius.

[treestar]

61. reeducation camps?

exaggeration helps no one.

[kentauros]

19. Okay, so long as every recipient of Sandy aid is required

to take disaster preparedness education so we won't ever again have to hear "We have nor'easters worse than hurricanes! It's no big deal!"

All of this revenge-minded vitriol is making me wonder whatever happened to the DU I joined so many years ago...

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. I'm afraid that place no longer exists... n/t

[kentauros]

23. I know.

I think that's also why I don't hang out here as much, even on the forums I used to post to the most. I have to remain though, as a host to another group. I can't ignore them (nor do I want to.)

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Well at least there are still some bright spots left. n/t

[kentauros]

26. That's true.

We can focus on them and maybe steer DU back to its roots

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. It's changed

A lot

[kentauros]

71. Yes, it has.

And I may have to start just reading the news and forgetting about the commentary part. It doesn't feel like much of a community any more.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I know.

[AndyA]

27. I think Red State residents are already getting it

Check out the Facebook pages for a few of the Republicans who voted against Sandy aid. Coburn, especially. The comments posted to his page are not supportive, and when I called his office earlier today to let him know what I think of him, it was apparent they're getting a lot of calls from people in Oklahoma, and most seem to be angry.

[Daniel537]

30. No.

They can find out by themselves if they want, or remain ignorant, whatever its their call, but a civilized society does not deny aid to its citizens, or put conditions on it. Period.

[cordelia]

37. That is one of the most depraved things I have ever seen

posted here.

It's inhuman.

[Daniel537]

39. Heh, this is nothing.

On some of the other threads there are people openly calling for aid to be denied. Somewhere Joseph Stalin must be smiling.

[cordelia]

55. Actually I did see that.

This just added a little more cruelty to the mix.

That was some inexplicably vile spew I saw last night.

[Butterbean]

60. Yeah, that one left me with my jaw hanging open in disgust.

Yanno, right wingers say the same shit about poor teen mothers and drug moms et al, "THEY'RE THE ONES WHO GOT PREGNANT, LET THEM SUFFER WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!!!" Never once pausing to think that there's a kid involved who never got to choose his or her parents or their circumstances. Nope, screw 'em all and let them suffer because the politics and values of the needy don't match up with theirs. Innocent kids? Pssh. They're just the brats of riff raff they don't want to associate with anyway, so why bother? Let them die off, it will finally end the cycle. Tough love. It's the only thing that works.

THESE ARE THINGS I HEAR RIGHT WINGERS SAY: that people should be denied life and be made to suffer because of their political beliefs. I can't believe I'm reading that kind of crap here. It makes me want to vomit.

[CokeMachine]

58. Wow Just WOW!!

This reminds me of a couple of posters that thought Colorado should burn because repukes live there. Bless your caring heart!!