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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWoman forces stepdaughter to wear dowdy thrift store clothes as punishment for bullying
When a woman from Murray, Utah, learned that her stepdaughter was criticizing a classmate’s wardrobe, she made a trip to a local thrift store.
Ally* purchased dowdy, ill-fitting outfits that she knew her stepdaughter, Kaylee*, would never choose, and she forced the fourth-grader to wear them to school as punishment for being a bully.
What do you think, is Ally’s idea a brilliant way to teach a kid a lesson or is this woman an evil stepmother?
Kaylee was relentlessly harassing one of her classmates over the course of three weeks and verbally tearing apart the girl’s clothing, according to KTSU-TV/Fox. Kaylee’s stepmother, Ally, told the Salt Lake City TV station that Kaylee went as far to call the girl a “sleaze” and a “slob.”
When Ally received a note from the school alerting her of Kaylee’s bullying, she talked about the issue with her stepdaughter and was perplexed when the young girl seemed apathetic to the damage she’d caused. The bullied student was so hurt that she wanted to leave the school.
http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2013/05/21/mom-forces-daughter-to-wear-dowdy-thrift-store-clothes-as-punishment-for-bullying/
Ally decided to get creative to teach Kaylee a lesson. The stepmom spent about $50 at a thrift store and purchased clothes she knew Ally would be embarrassed to wear. The clothes were poorly fitting and dated. (Anyone with a daughter might know that fourth grade is often the year when a girl starts to show interest in fashion and care about what she wears to school.)
“I thought this was a perfect moment for us to really teach her, this is right, this is wrong, which path are you going to take? And then it’s her choice,” Ally told KTSU.
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babylonsister
(172,746 posts)Response to babylonsister (Reply #1)
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uppityperson
(116,017 posts)
rugger1869
(106 posts)NM
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Plus all caps are easier on my aging eyes.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)nt
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
I think this smacks of compounding a problem, and that there have to be better ways.
I wonder where this fourth grade child learned to be a bully?
.
dogknob
(2,431 posts)...
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I would educate the girl.
I would also punish her, but not by way of public humiliation, which is what this is.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
Making the bully a victim just creates more victims.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)
customerserviceguy
(25,406 posts)The punishment fits the crime exactly. Wearing "dowdy" clothes is not child abuse. Maybe it gave this little brat some empathy for those who can only afford the cheapest things in the thrift store.
Marr
(20,317 posts)Education doesn't have to be story-telling and picture books.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)The girl didn't care.
I don't understand your complaint. Is it that the girl felt bad at all or that she felt too bad?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Let's not assume every thing in a story is true.
And let's not assume that "educate the girl" was anything well planned.
Pelican
(1,156 posts)... then there is no way to continue a conversation.
As it stands, I think that public shame is an excellent educational tool. It's something that we have gotten away from that is a useful took for children and adults.
In any case, I can almost guarantee you that she learned something.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Where we don't take everyone's word at face value and where a parent's or guardian's claim of how hard they tried is often met with skepticism.
I suffer from that affliction.
"Learning something" is hardly the measure of good educational practices.
I'm sure Manson "learned something" growing up.
Because mommy made her dress up in ugly clothes, she's going to go off and murder people?
I'm not a educator but still... This seems to be quite the leap in logic.
That's like 3 or 4 stereotypes all wrapped up into one statement.
Bravo...
snooper2
(30,151 posts)that's AWESOME!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Find someone who takes students and parents at their word, find someone who thinks intimidation and humiliation are good ways to counteract bullying.
You go out and do that, why don't you, and then bring them here to me to join in a discussion.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)so it's now just a waiting game!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2883119
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2883262
Some good level headed thinking there.
Also, professionals quoted in the various articles seem to also think this punishment was a bad idea.
I may be in the minority on this board, but I'm in mighty fine company.
ciao
snooper2
(30,151 posts)as the saying goes?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Let's not assume every thing in a story is true...."
Hence, we must place the same amount of skepticism on the crux of the story itself... that the young girl was forced to wear unflattering clothing. So I suppose the actual premise should also be verified and validated...? 
Or do we merely discount that which allows our more convenience to our own biases?
jmowreader
(53,166 posts)If the child is truly a sociopath, sharing these factual stories might only encourage her to get worse.
Easiest example: Mitt Romney.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(24,678 posts)Certainly not the bullies.
Are there factual stories about bullies? What happens to them? Do they suffer from their behavior as bullies? What sort of stories (hopefully true ones) would change a bully's mind about bullying?
"If you keep this up, young lady, you'll grow up to be a cop, or a CEO" I hope there are better threats than that.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's a little less personal and affrontive, and it's kind of funny.
confiscated her phone for a week. Seems like a fair punishment for a girl who supposedly
gave her parents grief and talked back, right? But the unnamed parents decided to take
the punishment even further. They took a flurry of ridiculous photos of themselves with
their daughter’s phone and inundated her Facebook wall with the mortifying images.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)
cui bono
(19,926 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)was over the line.
Hilarious
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I wonder....
malaise
(295,832 posts)
dem in texas
(2,681 posts)I think drastic action is what the Mom was aiming for. She tried to explain to her stepdaughter how hurtful her behavior was to the girl she was bullying and wasn't getting through to her so she did something more drastic. I bet she got the stepdaughter's attention with the thrift store clothes. I hope that someone made fun of the stepdaughter's frumpy clothes and maybe she learned about empathy
When my kids were teens, I gave them a curfew. If they were out later, they knew I would come looking for them wearing my fuzzy purple housecoat. They toed the line because they didn't want to see me pulling up in my old car wearing my fuzzy purple housecoat. A little embarrassment or the threat of embarrassment goes a long way with a teen. My kids ,who are all parents of teens now, still get lots of laughs about that old housecoat.
Response to dem in texas (Reply #59)
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calimary
(89,950 posts)Glad you're both here!
These approaches are so creative and original! And I think they're pretty appropriate. I doubt there will be many permanent scars left from either of these.
customerserviceguy
(25,406 posts)And appropriate. There are so few "acceptable" ways to discipline kids, my hat's off to those who use creativity in doing so.
calimary
(89,950 posts)
A little mortification is good for the soul.
pnwmom
(110,255 posts)I think stepparents should butt-out when it comes to discipline, except for situations that require immediate action -- and this didn't.
My sister's second husband has a wonderful relationship both with her adult kids and their father, and it's because he didn't put himself in the position of disciplinarian during their growing up years.
MoonchildCA
(1,349 posts)I had a stepmom. I lived with her and my father from my preteen years on, and was not in touch with my mom. My stepmom was the primary disciplinarian and that was appropriate. I also am a stepmom (kids grown now), and I never would have made any major disciplinary decisions without the consent of my stepkids' mom. Yes, we are friends as well, but it really depends on who the primary caretaker is. That person needs to have jurisdiction, so to speak.
calimary
(89,950 posts)Good to have you with us!
I love this place. It's very illuminating, educational, and fun - most of the time!
haele
(15,377 posts)And I suspect that if the girl was showing any inclination to stop bullying, the father knew what the step-mother was going to do and probably approved. Step-mom might have bought the clothes, but there's a 90% chance that Dad was the one who told the girl when she objected "if she says that's what you wear to school for a week, you're going to wear that to school...".
An object lesson like this might work. It all depends on the child and the motivations behind the bullying.
While this might "kill" all hope of self-confidence in someone who is being vicious to others because of social anxiety, it teaches a sharp lesson in reality to the mean children who are being casually vicious because they feel they can. The sad truth is that a lot of parents of bullies teach children they should bully, because otherwise, those other lesser children might get uppity on them. That's one of the reasons the first wife is now an ex-wife...she did a lot of damage to the kidlet with her own casual, institutionally-sanctioned (from a "good family" in a small southern town) bullying.
A little short-term ridicule knocks a child with excessive pride issues down a peg or two much easier than cold, hard reality does later on after the child moves out of the home - expecially if the parent(s) using this method does so evenly and fearless of appearing ridiculous him/her self.
This was a "do looks really matter?" object-lesson. Discipline comes in many forms, not just punishment, and a disciplinarian doesn't have to be the enforcer of rules, the one who with-holds goodies and tells the child what they are doing wrong or how disappointed they are. The disciplinarian is also the teacher and guide, the one who says "you could be doing better, and I'll show you how".
My two cents. And I also was the one going out in fuzzy slippers and a crazy-cat lady sweater from the 1980's to look for the kidlet when she broke curfew. I was also the one who would obnoxiously sing off key, take the sass, and totally embarrassed her fearlessly being either a "know-it-all" or "kewl stepmom" and waiting it out until I ruined the party or she broke down and came home.
Haele
Hekate
(100,133 posts)... the results are not pretty. You can end up with a prototypical "mean girl."
With some children, you can talk about empathy and so forth until you are blue in the face -- but sometimes they literally have to walk in the other person's shoes for awhile, not just be told about it. Or in this case, the other person's unfashionable clothing.
With bullies, the first order of business is to make them stop it. Then you can explore their personal issues at your leisure.
I am referring to social bullying, not the physical stuff. You can't punch a kid who is punching other kids -- that is another kettle of fish and I don't have any answers except the primary one: first order of business, make them stop victimizing other kids.
I think the mother in question is spot-on.
FirstLight
(15,771 posts)My daughter was bullied so much we had to pull her from school this year...and the teacher didn;t do a thing to stop it, in fact she joined in. This girl actually told my daughter 'you are an embarassment to this school." and I saw her go down on herself to the point of not combing her hair and wearing hats to hide her face...
If the parents of that snobby little bitch had half the brains of this mom, maybe there would be something in this wprld called social justice. All these years people were so afraid to hurt their precious children's 'self esteem' that they created this mob of entitled, spoiled and emotionally stunted brats...see how that worked out?
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I hope she finds a great school or situation where she can have fun with learning again instead of being picked on. So many people use the same excuse as "boys will be boys" but when it comes to bullying it's "kids are mean, it's part of growing up" and "toughen up kid" and while that may be true to a certain extent, with bullying it completely crosses the line. I'm glad to hear she has parents who cared about her and stuck up for her, because when parents choose to ignore their children's pleas for help, things can get bad.
and would have done the same kind of thing had it been my daughter doing the bullying. Here's a little heads-up for you....most kids can be bullies on occasion. It's a "crowd mentality' thing, and if your friends are doing it, you might too. Getting caught up short with an object lesson like this may very well nip that kind of behavior in the bud. It sure worked in my case, more years ago than I care to count, when I was this child's age!
Mariana
(15,623 posts)I bet most parents can tell stories about rotten behaviors their kids learned from other kids. And lots of kids are plenty smart enough to exhibit said rotten behaviors only when their parents aren't around.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)that there is something wrong with the other girl's clothes?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Lot's of things wrong with this form of punishment.
Sorry to read how many DUers think it was appropriate and useful.
dogknob
(2,431 posts)And I'm glad you actually had a solution... and a spine.
Lady Freedom Returns
(14,198 posts)That person/victim is on the lookout to get it 10 fold. 
Bullies don't shame easy.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)The punished girl is likely going to walk away from this experience full of anger and resentment rather than enlightened.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)in whatever "payback" she eventually decides to mete out.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)have, instead of criticizing whomever has less......
it also says clothes are temporary things. What is important is inside.
I'm all for it.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)It may say that rhetorically to some people. But I have never been able to appreciate that concept. Being glad I'm not you doesn't sit well with me because I have been the subject of those comparisons.
"You never know what you've got until you discover how hard life is for some people."
"I guess I never realized how lucky I am to be me until I met you."
And they just come across as "I'm really glad I'm not you."
It stems from this little tidbit.
"I had no shoes and complained, until I met a man with no feet."
I think hearts are in the right places. But, in the end it just comes across as saying there is something wrong with the person who has no feet.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)I think I may have walked in your shoes for 7 years. It gave me great respect for those who, like me, could not walk.
That is how a bully can come to understand that expensive clothes are not better than thrift store clothes.
The compassion lesson wasn't working...
Once I was eating outside with some neighbors, a picnic in the building's back yard. A man came to find some food in our trash cans. My nextdoor neighbpor said "he should b ashamed of himself, doing that while we are out here." I said "you should be ashamed of yourself thinking that when someone else has no food. I gave the man my dinner. Maybe she learned something. From what I can see, she did not. these lessons do not come easy when compassion is missing inside.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Last edited Wed May 22, 2013, 07:08 PM - Edit history (1)
to provide some of the education you have identified, in the form you have identified, we have learned many lessons.
When you put a blindfold on a ten yr. old to try to teach compassion they are playful with it. When you ask a nondisabled person to use a wheelchair they are also playful trying to learn how to jump curb cuts, etc.
We have learned that it is more useful to find where we meet. It is difficult for many people to do things physically even when it's not identified as a disability. ie Being taller or shorter than average. Being left handed....
I meant to add that I do not use a wheelchair. I use the universal disability symbol because disability is part of my identity even though mine is not visible. One thing that taught me a lot was when I broke my ankle and it was hard to use stairs and open doors. I understood how it felt, but I didn't feel pity.
When someone can go back to the way things were, it does not always teach the lessons one hopes.
I think it might have been more useful for her to learn about what they have in common.
Suppose they were encouraged to communicate anonymously about something specific and they learns they have more in common than they expected. I just think it would be a better lesson to teach her that the girl who gets her clothes from the thrift store is not defective. There is nothing so wrong with being poor that it should generate pity.
I think there's a fine line between pity and compassion. Pity is condescending. I know I and my friends who have disabilities do not welcome it
defacto7
(14,162 posts)It shows her how the person under the clothing is what counts. It shows that the clothes are totally unimportant. It seems the girl thought otherwise.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)We don't really know what it says to her. Conceptually, it does say "you're going to look like her as punishment."
Don't forget that during this time, she can tell her friends that she'll be back to her old stylin' self after the week is over.
defacto7
(14,162 posts)We have no way to know what the situation really is for them and I have come to understand that media writes for their own angle; we can't know anything about it in reality. So, I look at it as discussion of philosophy an ethics for myself and how I can understand my own situations. We have no effect or process concerning them personally.
As far as the outcome, whatever a parent does or doesn't do, the outcome can't be projected into the future. We can't know that either. We just do the best we can with what we know and hope for the best.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)make bad choices that aren't a result of modeled behavior. At least the parents were concerned enough to try to fix the issue so...
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)
silverweb
(16,410 posts)[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]The punishment definitely fits the offense.
LeftofObama
(4,243 posts)If we can stop the bullying early, maybe we can stop it for good. 
JI7
(93,568 posts)it could work on some and not on others.
i can see cases where the bully is so bad that something like this wouldn't stop them and they would go so far to make things even worse .
but this could be a case where the parent teaches a lesson and the kid gets it and doesn't repeat it.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)neighbors were invited. I had to stand on a box and tell everyone I stole. I am 56. I do not even consider stealing as much as a pencil.
It works!!!!
Ilsa
(64,333 posts)Except I bet she didnt get teased much. But I hope she had to worry about it, and I hope she learned that clothes don't make the person, behavior does.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)How could she? If it was her punishment to wear them, there must be something wrong with them. She and her friends probably joked about it the whole day.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)this method, but I do not think she acted inappropriately.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)pnwmom
(110,255 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts) 
Lisa0825
(14,492 posts)calimary
(89,950 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)
Skittles
(171,620 posts)how does a stepmother bullying a child teach that child not to be a bully?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Last edited Tue May 21, 2013, 09:00 PM - Edit history (1)
I call it lazy parenting. And that's being kind.
Mean mom.
Could make the June cover of:
(Edit subject line.)
Skittles
(171,620 posts)I never bullied like that but if I had, they would have had me working with the poor in some kind of volunteer capacity to see them as real people with feelings and not as objects of fashion ridicule - this kind of humilation crap does nothing but cause resentment
Xithras
(16,191 posts)If the girl is "humiliated" because she had to wear thrift-shop clothes, then her parents have much bigger problems than bullying to worry about.
Skittles
(171,620 posts)Xithras
(16,191 posts)There is nothing "humiliating" about having to wear "un-cool" clothing. This girl decided to bully another over her clothing, and in turn was forced to wear the clothing herself.
She wasn't wearing a dunce cap, or one of those stupid signs around her neck (which IS child abuse IMHO). She wasn't dressed up as a homeless person, or a clown. She was simply made to wear the same normal, non-humiliating thrift shop clothes that millions of other children wear every single day. There's nothing wrong with that clothing, other than the fact that she didn't like the style.
In truth, she was simply treated like most other kids get treated every day. My kids didn't get to choose their own wardrobes until they were in middle school. We took their input, but the final arbiters were Mom & Dad. That means they sometimes got clothing they didn't like, and sometimes they got clothing they did. That's how most families work. In this case, the parent simply bought her clothes that she didn't care for. That is neither bullying or abusive. By bullying another child over clothing, her parents removed the PRIVILEGE of allowing her to select her own wardrobe.
If the girl WAS actually humiliated, then her parents have some serious work to do on her priorities and self-image.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Lurker Deluxe
(1,085 posts)When I was in grade school I got used clothes or cheap Sears brand clothing. Entering into high school I wanted some 501's and it was simply a no go, wasn't going to happen. My first year of high school saw me join the swim team and bring home nothing less than a B in the first report, that earned me two pair of 501's.
I was pretty straight laced until my senior year, and I was working by then, but my parents defiantly controlled my attitude and actions by the carrot and stick method. Good grades and attitude - nicer bike, clothes, and more leniency. Bad grades and piss poor attitude - broken bike, no new clothes, and instead of the weekend with friends it was the weekend helping Dad do whatever menial labor task he decided.
I remember my softmore year I broke a lock off a locker in the gym with the heel of my boot. I got caught ... mowed the lawn an "extra" time to pay for the lock and, no more boots.
Parenting is good. The whole thing being on the 'net I dunno about, but the act itself I have no issue with.
Bay Boy
(1,689 posts)you were kind of a bad ass. Kicking locks off of lockers as a sophomore = bad ass
calimary
(89,950 posts)Tended to work pretty well - just reminding them of that from time to time.
And sometimes they found out, on their own, how true that was.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)I agree with this.
Not sure why others don't see it that way?
Skittles
(171,620 posts)regardless of how ineffective they are
LiberalLovinLug
(14,680 posts)From all the stories I've seen on TV reality shows or news or from books where a person dons the look and attire of another sex, or race, or body size, they always come away with a new sense of understanding. Even when they didn't expect it. So IMO she may not think she's getting anything out of it, and be too consumed by anger at the time she is doing it, but later, upon reflection, she may just evolve a little more empathy.
Ilsa
(64,333 posts)create resentment too. there is no guarantee that empathy can be developed from volunteering at that age. Maybe the mother didn't have spare time for volunteer work that also accepted the child.
At least she had to walk in the other girl's shoes for awhile, and for some kids, that's where the lesson of treating others the way you wish to be treated is learned.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Proof? You think this kid wouldn't also resent being forced to volunteer?
Ms. Toad
(38,598 posts)between putting your child in contact with people like the ones she has been bullying so that she might actually learn the people she is bullying are real people, have real feelings, and might develop some empathy, and - on the other hand - teaching your child that whoever has the most power gets the privilege of dishing out humiliation.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)poor kids in their school?
volunteering at a soup kitchen or something seems a useless response to me.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Mad or National Lampoon spoof, I can't recall which.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)I still have my copy!
customerserviceguy
(25,406 posts)I especially recalled "Sparties, the five-day live-in diaper suit"! When you pull baby out, just hose him down, and he's ready for another Sparties!
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ZEW-K5gbMfo/UGFfi7N9UxI/AAAAAAAADpc/0dkq5mHofok/s1600/Live+in+diaper.jpg
And, I have the goddamn hardcopy if we ever need it!
Back up, baby, old school!
Xithras
(16,191 posts)The article doesn't say that the stepmother teased or mocked the girl while she was wearing the close, and didn't dress her up like a clown or homeless person, but simply that she made her wear the same thrift store clothes that millions of other kids wear every day. The girl has obviously grown up in a household where she has been able to pick her own wardrobe and be "fashionable", and it's a GOOD thing for kids to understand that not everyone is that lucky, and to understand what it feels like to have no choice as to what you're wearing.
Compassion and empathy grow from understanding. Bullying ends when the bullies become empathetic. The girl now has a far better understanding of her victims situation than she'd have gained from any lecture.
Skittles
(171,620 posts)tsuki
(11,994 posts)robinlynne
(15,481 posts)
shawn703
(2,712 posts)Is a great lesson in empathy.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)this is the best way and I would do it in a heartbeat if one of my daughters was a bully.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)forcing a child into an embarrassing situation is bullying.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Bullying is making yourself feel good by making someone else feel small, bigging yourself up by contrast. I'm sure Mom doesn't care two hoots how bully girl's new status reflects on *herself*. It's about motivation. She wants the girl to think differently, there is an ultimate purpose to the conditions imposed on the child. The only purpose in bullying is to enjoy making someone else feel bad.
Heywood J
(2,515 posts)Yep, that's certainly bullying. It ranks right up there with a bunch of jocks pounding on a nerd after school, beating up the gay kid, hazing, etc...
Some days, I think the definition of "bullying" has been stretched so far as to break it in a few places.
lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)If you ground a child, his/her friends are aware of it. It's embarrassing.
If you withhold allowance, his/her friends know that the child can't afford to buy something that the other kids can during that time. It's embarrassing.
If you make a child apologize for something they've done, it's embarrassing.
If you prohibit a child/teen from attending a party, he/she will loudly let you know that it's the humiliation of a lifetime, not to go to said party with the cool kids.
I'm astounded by how many people here are siding in with the bully, using lame excuses for doing so.
The stepmother tried talking with the girl, and she was shocked by the girl's lack of compassion or remorse. She had to do something. With the biological father's approval (obviously), she came up with a punishment to make this child understand how it feels to be teased about something as superficial as clothing.
As for taking it to the press? The child's face is photoshopped out of the image. It's not like everyone in the world knows everyone in that town, and could identify the kid.
It's important to note the conclusion of the story, not included in the OP of this thread:
The claims that this is abuse are insane. Physical abuse would be starving the child, keeping her in a closet, beating or molesting her. Emotional abuse would be verbally berating the child at home and telling her she's worthless. None of this is happening. This is an appropriate, creative, non-violent method of discipline. The child only wore these clothes for 2 days.
Anyone who would think this is damaging would have to be pampered and spoiled beyond belief. It's not like the kid was sent to school in her underwear, or a T-shirt emblazoned with the words, "I'm a bullying little brat." Out of economic necessity, thousands of kids go to school dressed in thrift-store finds every day. It's about time this spoiled brat sees how the other half lives. If more kids were taught this lesson, there would be far fewer Republicans around.
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)In this case the shame IS the punishment. The parent is deliberately causing emotional harm as a form of punishment. This is not the case with the other forms of punishment you mentioned. And I don't believe that most forms of punishment cause embarrassment. It's rare that any of my kids' friends knew when they were being punished. Even if they did I doubt much embarrassment was involved. All children get discipline at one point or another and are smart enough to figure out that it happens to them also from time to time.
whistler162
(11,155 posts)children to mall's or drive them to school. A parents existence in the same hemisphere is usually embarrassing to the child at a certain age.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)say, bullying your child sends the wrong message. Some think that if you humiliate someone, that will teach them a lesson. Yes, but it teaches them that humiliation is a tool of control. It doesnt work to use the same bad behavior to try to teach others not to use that behavior. Like hitting a child for hitting.
MerryBlooms
(12,242 posts)
pennylane100
(3,425 posts)is bullying. The kid did not listen to her stepmother when she talked about how awful if is for the person being bullied so she made her live it.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)but possibly learned to hate her stepmother in the process. Not exactly a win-win.
My mother would have threatened to do something like this to get my attention but she never would have forced me to wear clothes to shame me.
I did wear thrift store clothes but they were ones I chose.
Response to Skittles (Reply #19)
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lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)I do have a problem with telling the TV news crew. Parenting shouldn't be a vehicle for grabbing personal attention.
Sissyk
(12,665 posts)enough
(13,756 posts)into a little creek at the bottom of the hill below our school. This was morning recess. I don't know what happened to the other girls, but I was given some clothes out of the "goodwill box" to wear for the rest of the day. This was not meant as punishment, just a practical way to deal with a kid whose clothes were wet and muddy back before people's parents came to school to pick them up at the drop of a hat.
I'll never forget the humiliation of wearing that random collection of, bad-fitting, dowdy, absolutely NOT-cool clothes all day. I didn't even feel like myself. It was actually an amazing lesson for me about how much we are identified with our outward appearance, something I had never thought about before.
I think it's probably not a bad punishment for bullying, if the situation has come to the point where a punishment is really necessary and there's no other way to get the message across.
On edit, I've just read through the thread and I think I have to agree with the comment that this punishment reinforces the idea that there is something wrong with the other girl's clothes. Also that the punishment itself is a form of bullying (as are most forms of punishment). So thank DUers for giving me something to think about.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)It's as if they want a world where nobody ever feels bad about anything.
enough
(13,756 posts)that my post did not mean that I "want a world where nobody ever feels bad about anything." To the contrary, I meant that as a parent I felt that it would always be preferable for the kid to get some internal personal understanding of what was wrong with some particular behavior, why it was destructive, hurtful, or non-functional. This would be more useful than simply subjecting the kid to a "punishment" that has to be endured because they have done something bad. As if you can "pay for" a wrong or hurtful action by enduring a punishment. Much better is to come to a real internal understanding of WHY it is wrong, and from that a personal commitment to behaving ethically.
This is very far from a world where nobody every feels bad about anything. It is in fact based on the idea that you come to truly feel bad about what you have done wrong, rather than simply paying for it by enduring a punishment.
enough
(13,756 posts)young children and then older ones, I often felt that I had failed to communicate with them if I had to punish them for something they did wrong. It would always be a lot better if they could understand what the problem was and figure out how to change in some way that would work. By imposing a punishment, I was by definition using my superior power to impose something on them, rather than having them see and understand why certain behaviors are unacceptable or destructive.
This does not at all mean that I believed that they should always be happy or that they should not learn that "actions have consequences." In fact my husband and I were seen by our friends as being very strict parents, possibly to a fault. But we did not resort to actual punishments very often. Rather, it was a matter of including them in the human endeavor of trying to live in a way that is ethical and functional, and expecting them to take part in that.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)I remember being in fourth grade. The lack of empathy is a problem, and bullying over three weeks is a problem.
If talking to her about her behavior didn't work to make the girl truly aware of what she had been doing, then this will at least teach her a lesson about not starting it going around because it will get to you in the end.
Her intent was not to punish the girl, but to wake her up and make her conscious of the meaning of her behavior. There's something so realistic about that quote "And then it's her choice."
I think letting a child drift into becoming a bully is abusive. I don't care what psychologists say. The bullying kids I grew up with ended up not having particularly great lives, it seems to me.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)
moonbeam23
(418 posts)i don't believe that she spent 50 whole dollars on those clothes...the thrift shops in northern Utah are FULL of dresses that look like that at pretty cheap prices...ugh...lol
Personally, i feel that that is a brilliant way to teach her a lesson, as long as it doesn't go on too long...a day or two should do the trick...i agree that letting your child become a bully is abusive...but it is possible that these parents are dealing with a budding psychopath and that NOTHING will cause her to develop any empathy...in that case they are in for a long hard road...
Best of luck to all involved...
cali
(114,904 posts)I get that the stepmother was at an impasse but there are better ways.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)You would educate the girl by sharing factual stories about victims of bullying. You would also punish her, but not by way of public humiliation. These are necessarily and understandably vague of course, but that's often the language of the critic. Translated, you are simply saying that you would do it better, you would 'educate' and though the power of persuation the girl would learn the error of her ways. Your rhetorical prowess would convince her to change.
I would counter by saying that education is exactly what this parent did, and in a most effective way. No long speeches met with eye rolling and promises at home -- and more bullying at school -- but rather a direct and personal learning experience. The girl didn't hear about how uncomfortable it is, she lived it and she understood.
As for the "importance of clothes" arguement, the reality is that this is a load of crap. Clothes ARE important, appearance is damn near everything, and everyone knows it. It matters whether you are two or ninety-two. How you look, how you dress, how you carry yourself, is either a blessing or a curse you carry with you your entire life. It impacts the grades you get, the jobs you get, how fast you get promoted and what you can get away with, your dates and mates, it matters. And while we all might wish it were otherwise, there it is. You cannot teach someone that it doesn't matter without teaching them a lie.
What you can do, and what this parent did, was to teach the bully a deeper truth: that these things shouldn't matter, that they are superficial, and one should learn to look beyond them.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's sad for our future,
But I forgive you and others who blindly accept that what you wear and what others wear is more important than other things.
It's a mostly American, or at least Western, thing.
I choose a different path.
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)And yes, it is sad. There are lots of sad realities out there, and this is one of them. The better looking people have opportunities and advantages unavailable to the less gifted in that regard. As do the wealthy. I don't have to like it, I just have to understand it.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)You are not what clothes you wear. You are what is inside. Walk in the other girl's shoes.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)
Nothing offensive at all with tastefully designed uniforms, so no student can pick on others less "fashionable"..
https://www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&hl=en&q=school+uniforms&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&biw=639&bih=317&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=TRacUfflB6GjigKI6YC4Dw
tsuki
(11,994 posts)the doctor's son and the plumber's son by May.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)between kids of all economic levels..
hunter
(40,671 posts)It's mostly a reaction to the gang problem.
From a parent's perspective it keeps the kids safe.
I don't think it's a bad idea for any school. My parents couldn't afford any brand name clothes.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)Kids can still "express their individuality" on weekends or after school.
It also gives teachers a respite from always having to be the bad guy when they tell kids they are not dressed appropriately
Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)When everyone is wearing the same dowdy clothes to school, there is no clothes problems as a distraction to study. I once asked one of my teachers, a nun, why we had to wear uniforms and she told me so the rich children couldn't make the poor children feel bad about their wardrobes. Also, that we were in school to learn about life not what others had in their closets. Uniforms made everyone the same. I have come to agree with this.
calimary
(89,950 posts)Nobody could lord it over anybody else because they could afford better clothes than the next kid. Everybody looked the same. Just totally wiped out a whole lot of issues from the get-go. Kids are in school to go to school, not strut their fashions.
perdita9
(1,351 posts)...she's trying to HELP her learn how to behave properly.
If thrift store clothing gets the message across then great!
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)how wrong she was to make fun of the other girl.. Her actions just reinforce the idea that the other girl dresses "badly", and a costume party for the daughter only mocks her even more.. It does not create a bond between the girls or end the bullying when the experiment is over
joeglow3
(6,228 posts)She did talk to her and when that didn't work, did this. Since you alternative was already done, what else should she have done?
Yavin4
(37,182 posts)I think that this is a fine punishment. Sure. Talk to your kids, but that doesn't always get the message through. I don't believe in hitting the kid, but this is a good way to teach your kids about empathy.
Mariana
(15,623 posts)is "bullying" her.
It must follow, then, that any parents who can't afford to buy new, fashionable clothes for their children are bullying their children daily. What a load of horseshit. As someone else has pointed out on this thread, millions of children don't get to choose their own clothing.
eggplant
(4,191 posts)
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)The step mom can set an example.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Personally if my child was Kaylee's victim, the last thing I would want to do is go have dinner with the bully and family.
It has the potential to either turn into an argument or the longest uncomfortable small talk session on record.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)The kid should not get anymore unlimited high fashion.
She should get pick her own own own clothes from a very restricted budget.
That means one piece of clothing every month from the department store every two or three months.
Or being creative and learning to express YOUR OWN personality and getting bags of clothing for the same price at the thrift store.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)The method's debatable, but if the mother thinks this will help her daughter empathize, good. If it's just supposed to be humiliation, not so much.
TxDemChem
(1,924 posts)I like this method of lesson teaching. My parents were the violent, corporal punishment types. I would get spanked and not even know what I did wrong (although I never bullied anyone), but I always strive for my daughter to have empathy for others' life situations. There are far worse things that this stepmother could have done.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)The kid should be punished for bullying.
Cronus Protagonist
(15,574 posts)
A Little Weird
(1,754 posts)Some kids just can't empathize very well and need to see for themselves what it feels like to be different.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)embarrassed to wear". Humiliation and embarrassment don't teach. In fact, Ally will carry this terrible betrayal with her into adulthood. And probably play it out on her own kids. Has anyone thought about why Ally might be acting mean to others?? Do you really think she just decided to be mean in a vacuum? Unfortunately, firm correction coupled with compassionate insight would have been called for, but stepmom has probably burned her bridges with Ally even though she may lay low with her resentment until she can REALLY get back at her. When she turns about 16...she will likely feel justified to do something really "bad" just to get back at her wicked witch of a step mom. This story is sadly common. I think Ally's stepmom needs to practice the Golden Rule and model it as well. But it's probably too late now, sadly.
Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)
kiva
(4,373 posts)1. She tried talking to 'Kaylee' but the girl did not seem to care about what she had done.
2. Step-mom says that what Kaylee does after the punishment is up to her: "I thought this was a perfect moment for us to really teach her, this is right, this is wrong, which path are you going to take? And then it’s her choice." To me, that means that the punishment was meant as a wakeup call to the girl, not the opening shot of a humiliation campaign.
3. The punishment really fit the crime - Kaylee bullied another girl about her clothes, Kaylee gets to find out what it's like to not be wearing the clothes she wants to wear.
I think the stepmother is absolutely correct that her stepdaughter will be the one to decide about her own character - she can internalize this experience and decide not to bully other people or she can laugh it off and continue to bully...which, I might add, is what she was doing before this, so it's not like trying this intervention will 'make' her harass other students, she was already doing it.
Nay
(12,051 posts)It may not solve the problem because her stepdaughter may not learn the lesson, but that's not on mom. Stepdaughter will own that.
customerserviceguy
(25,406 posts)Whatever would be spent on Kaylee for her next birthday or Christmas would go into a gift certificate for the bullied girl at a store that sold good clothing. That's making the punishment fit the crime.
Response to customerserviceguy (Reply #84)
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Kali
(56,822 posts)could you please unlock your caps key?
ALL CAPS IS RUDE INTERNET BEHAVIOR - AKIN TO YELLING
pnwmom
(110,255 posts)It wasn't a situation that required an instantaneous response. One of the girl's parents should have handled this, IMHO.
Mariana
(15,623 posts)If the stepmother is fulfilling a parental role in the child's life, she's not out of line to discipline the child.
pnwmom
(110,255 posts)of what should have been a private matter -- I mean, going to the media about this -- makes me wonder whether she had the stepdaughter's well being in mind.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)Something is very wrong and two wrongs don't make it right. Step mom is a model. Empathy is taught by being empathic. She made things a lot worse I'm afraid. I wonder how Ally feels now? She's a little kid in need of lots of help. Doesn't sound like she's going to get it until it gets a lot worse. Believing this stunt will fix things is a sad form of magical thinking. Very sad.
JI7
(93,568 posts)to really see it.
we see it all the time with grown ups and political issues. how people suddenly become in favor of something when they need it.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)She's a little kid. She has been bullying other girls. Something is wrong. Embarrassing her will not help her. And publicizing this awful situation may build step moms ego, and get her a lot of rah-rah agreement, but feeling good about how clever she is won't help her daughter. It's a little bit sickening- they both need help.
JI7
(93,568 posts)where she might be too young to understand the points being made.
it's not like she got a beating or had to go without food or clothes. the punishment kind of tied in with the reason she is being punished.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)No, she didn't have to go without food or clothes but rather, she has the entire world wide web privy to her embarrassment.
Ten year olds are not too young to understand lessons of compassion or exposure to situations that lead to enlightenment. Purposely embarrassing a child is as much bullying as is mocking them.
The mother did not take the high road here. I fact, she reinforced the notion that "unfashionable" clothes are an embarrassment.
JI7
(93,568 posts)which is why i don't think it's that bad.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)And this adult took the extra step of making sure the entire world can celebrate the girl's embarrassment. That is bullying on a grand scale.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)How did Kaylee react to her public shaming? When her stepmother presented her with the thrift store outfits, she cried.
But the fourth grader followed her stepmother’s instructions, wore the unstylish threads for two days, and put up with her friends saying meaning things about her clothes. In the end, Kaylee admitted that she learned a lesson, has decided that teasing other kids is mean, and promises to be more kind to her peers.
NewJeffCT
(56,848 posts)If this Kaylee got bullied for wearing the unfashionable clothes for 2 days, even if Kaylee stops her bullying, the other girls will still make fun of/bully kids in unfashionable clothes. It's not going to stop for the other girls. Heck, they still might continue making fun of Kaylee ("you wore that ugly dress last week..." and the other kids. Without commenting on Kaylee or her step-mom, I think the school has issues with bullying in general.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)And many of them end up going right back in. Go figure. Just because somebody says they've learned a lesson doesn't mean they have.
Quantess
(27,630 posts)$50 at a thrift store buys a few outfits. How long will this punishment continue?
One day in an ugly outfit is genius. More than one day in frumpy clothes... starting to get weird and vengeful.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)JI7
(93,568 posts)either make it strapless or thinner straps .
in the first red one cut off the pants so it looks like shorts. remove or make the sleeves smaller and it might look ok as a romper.
defacto7
(14,162 posts)It's perfect.
Humiliation? Come on people! Get out of your stupid TV sets and into the real world. Those cloths are NOT humiliating, they are perfectly appropriate, not fashionable, but appropriate.
Except it's Utah so it actually is fairly fashionable. I live in Utah.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)defacto7
(14,162 posts)Maybe the problem is that it shouldn't be embarrassing... but is. There's a big difference. She shouldn't be embarrassed, but unfortunately she would be. Learning to see others as you see yourself is a good thing.
If the parent chose clothes specifically because she wanted to hurt her child, that is not a good attitude. But if the parent chose clothes that teach her child the value of a person vs. the covering and it is explained that way, it's a great way to learn to grow up.
There is still no reason for the child to be embarrassed unless the child has an attitude of superiority. If the child has a superior attitude, it also may be the parents fault to begin with for being too indulgent, but we can't know that. It may be just a sign of the times and needs to be worked on.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)She shouldn't bully, either. But.....
defacto7
(14,162 posts)I think she should be proud... proud that she has clothes at all. And she should apologize, and she should laugh about the situation with the other girl and invite her over to her house. This is a healthy attitude and If she can't handle that, then maybe she needs some counseling.
I know that's not what the media teaches people but the entertainment industry is dead wrong and carries a lot of blame.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)a real situation. Pontificating about what "should" happen isn't terribly useful, is it? She's ten years old.
defacto7
(14,162 posts)Just an opinion and a reason. 10 years old is a great age to be happy, social and full of life. It's not a great age to be burdened with prejudice. It's also a much better age to learn social skills than later in life. As far as a real situation... It's not real for you, it's not real for me, it's only real for them and we don't decide anything for them. Therefore it's a discussion of philosophy and ethics and discussing what should happen is very useful as a learning process for ourselves... or at least it is for me.
BTW, regarding "shoulds"... is there a place in society for prejudice? How about the concept, "should be tolerant of others" or "should not be prejudiced"? Are you implying that "should" is a word that is not appropriate as if there is a place for antisocial behavior to be tolerated? There are "shoulds" in a civilized society, many of them. We "should" respect other people. We "should" be tolerant of others. We "should be understanding. We "should" be teachable. We "should not" be prejudiced, racist, destructive of others property, (fill in the blank).
I mean no disrespect to you and your opinion. It's simply a discussion and I have my own perspectives.
Be well!
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Embarrassment often instills humility against our own will.
Well said, thank you.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I hope this girl learned her lesson, btw. Bullying just isn't cool.
Jasana
(490 posts)Too often when we speak of bullies we ask, "Where are the parents?" Well this parent is trying to do something.
We also seem to forget that kids don't always lessons of bullying at home. Often time they learn it from their other friends. They want to be seen as one of the pack. They can bully for this reason alone. My mother was one of these such dimwits.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)of a target. Humiliating punishments usually result in anger and resentment... not enlightenment.
Jasana
(490 posts)Sadly, that is always a possibility. I think we will have to wait and see how this one play out. Thank you for responding with your concern.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)but you still haven't said what you would do in that situation.
Tien1985
(923 posts)but every kid I ever grew up with or have dealt with as an adult (including my own) knows that the answer to "Have you learned your lesson?" is ALWAYS "Yes" and whatever it is the grown-up wants you to say.
What kid would say, "No, I don't understand what I'm in trouble for." After being punished.
That's pretty much like saying, "Please, lecture/punish me some more."
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)there has to be a better way to teach empathy. I know a young man whose mother and sixth grade teacher humiliated him during a parent teacher conference. It remains with him 40 years later.
vanlassie
(6,246 posts)We treat children with loving respect and they in turn become loving and caring. After the first few years of life, it's a done deal, pretty much. If it doesn't happen early on, stunts like this one will be even more harmful. Yes, 40 years, or an entire lifetime for the scars. You don't teach compassion by being cruel. This stepmother admitted to wanting to embarrass the little ten year old. Very disturbing.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)teaching empathy takes time. Perhaps meeting some women who 20 years later cried themselves to sleep over their earlier cruelty. I don't know.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Lesson here? Unfashionable clothes and those who wear them are worthy of being mocked.
Stupid stupid lesson.
Tien1985
(923 posts)If her "friends" mocked her, what wonderful friends they must be.
LeftishBrit
(41,453 posts)is that it will only reinforce the child's attitude that there's something wrong and humiliating about wearing unfashionable clothes. I think a punishment was very necessary, but I think this one might actually teach the opposite lesson from the one intended.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)Everyone is so concerned that little Ally will be traumatized, but I were the bullied girl who had been harassed to the point of tears or considered leaving school, I would feel doubly betrayed by adults if precious Ally was just given a talking to. This is serious stuff, not a slight infraction. I'm sure that deep down, the bullied girl felt that someone at least saw her plight and tried to do something about it.
I was bullied by a girl in 4th-5th grade. She was a spoiled soc and a suckup to all the teachers. They saw what she did, but just gently chastised her. The minute they turned their backs, she was at me again. Finally, I felt that no one would help me or cared. So I kicked her ass after school and the bullying of me and all the others she terrorized stopped. Bullying should not be taken lightly by anyone involved and teachers and parents need to do whatever they can to protect the vulnerable. Too many kids' lives are ruined by bullies. So no, I don't condemn this mother for taking it seriously and trying to deal with the situation in a non-violent way.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)she's dishing out to others.
Nay
(12,051 posts)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)I don't think it's remotely a bridge too far.
Tien1985
(923 posts)I think sometimes adults dig too deep into a child's problems. This isn't about money or the lack of. Mom got funny clothes from Goodwill because she didn't want to spend an arm and leg making the kid look a fool--plus it's a lot easier to get clothes that look like they belong on a fundie compound there.
The bully was picking on the other girl because "she looked like a slob" or "sleaze". Some adults immediately seem to hinge that on the price tag of the clothing. To disprove that, look at hipsters and one of the prevailing fashions in the last decade. Shopping at Goodwill is "cool" provided you wear stuff that looks "good" (IE looks like what everyone else is wearing).
These kids, both the bully and the victim, are roughly 10 years old. Being made to wear a dress that looks like it came off a doll is not going to teach the bully that clothes don't matter. In fact, the message is EXACTLY the opposite. The mom said she was specifically looking for clothes that would make the girl embarrassed. Message: "Bad clothes=embarrassment" Lesson: Don't wear embarrassing clothing, don't do anything that Mom will make me wear these clothes over (or, do get caught) 
Better message: Not everyone has to share your sense of style and picking on people because they don't is shallow, mean behavior.
There is NOT a quick and easy punishment for this--if talking to her only showed that she didn't care how much she hurt the other kid, there is a bigger problem going on. Yes, there needs to be a punishment, and if it results in embarrassment, oh well. I'm not saying a kid should never be shamed for acting cruel. In fact, what they should be trying to get at is that her behavior WAS humiliating. She was being cruel and shallow, and the entire internet is now aware of it. Mind you--it re-victimizes the girl who was bullied to begin with. Her story and pain is all over the internet for the world to see. Even if we don't know her name, everyone in her school does and they are not going to let her forget.
The girl who was bullying needs some severe curtailing of privileges that LAST and a lot of serious conversations with Mom and Dad. She needs to write and SAY an apology to the girl she harassed. It would be wonderful for them to spend some time together, but that may not be possible if she has hurt the other girl to the point that her bridges are burned. And most importantly, they need to take a look at the friend group she was hanging out with and cull the herd. The kids she is hanging around sound like obnoxious little brats, and she is falling right in line with them.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)But I do feel that sometimes bullies lack empathy because they do come from privileged backgrounds or they are coddled at home (the flip side is that some are abused at home). Hell, I know adults who entirely lack empathy because they have never really had to struggle financially or been hit hard by life. Nasty, snobbish latte yuppies who look down their noses at everyone and think they're off the hook because they vote Democratic or recycle. You quoted above that the girl herself said she learned what it felt like and would try to be nicer in the future. That's a lesson that's important to learn.
The stepmother said she spoke with Ally about how bad bullying was and she was completely apathetic. Everyone knows that look which is often accompanied by a "Whatever." It's hard to breach the bubble of apathy. This way seemed to do it. Some kids are naturally empathetic and sensitive. Others need more training in this area. If she had been allowed to continue, she would have been a monster by high school.
rucky
(35,211 posts)Tien1985
(923 posts)wouldn't be getting nearly as much scrutiny if they didn't decide to talk to the media about it.
Parents of known bullies get LOTS of scrutiny whether they do something or not. People have a problem disassociating the behavior of a child from the actions of the parents, and the behavior of the child from the child's inherent nature. Sometimes kids do things because they are immature and haven't learned better, not because the parents didn't try to teach it, but because they are young and haven't internalized it yet.
However, when your parents decide to discuss your rearing online, they have opened themselves (and you) up to criticism as well as praise.
renate
(13,776 posts)
A lot of people would have handled this situation differently, but we're only talking about it because the stepmother tried to DO something. Her solution may not be perfect but it's a heck of a lot better than nothing, I think.
Personally, I would have bought regular thrift-store clothes--nothing deliberately embarrassing, but nothing stylish or with a popular label--and had the girl wear them for a week, just to see what it's like to wear clothes that aren't to your taste because you can't afford to choose a particular color or style. That way, she wouldn't have been out-and-out embarrassed by the clothes, but she wouldn't have felt or dressed like a little fashionista, either. Being deliberately embarrassed by the clothes probably does still put the focus on appearance.
However, I only arrived at that solution after reading all these responses here; the stepmother didn't have that advantage as she was trying to come up with a solution. I say good for her, for at least treating bullying seriously.
Dorian Gray
(13,850 posts)I think she tried to think of a unique punishment for her stepdaughter that would make her think. But I also think this punishment is problematic bc it acknowledges that certain clothing is "uncool," perpetuating her step daughter's ingrained beliefs.
(Then there's the going to the press with it.... um....? Yeah, not cool.)
The daughter sounds like she needs to be dealt with. I would restrict her access to her friends for a long time until she acknowledges how her behavior is wrong. I'd make her volunteer in her spare time. I'd take away phone privileges. Other than school, no talking or seeing friends until I was certain she'd made amends.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)she may walk away using one of the dumbest lines I've heard "see ya wouldn't wanna be ya."
I think there's a real difference between empathy and condescendingly acknowledging that sucks to be in another persons situation so much that you should be nice to them.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)I think the stepmom did a great thing, and I hope it worked. I'd rather see this than read about Kaylee's victim committing suicide three years from now because she could no longer take the bullying. I'm guessintg all of the people here who are so very concerned about poor little Kaylee would be in a righteous fury because 'nothing was done' to stop the bullying.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)The situation was bad enough that the school sent a note home. I'm hoping that by putting Kaylee in the victim's shoes, she learned something.
MineralMan
(151,200 posts)on whether this was an appropriate way to change the child's behavior. I do know that kids bully other kids and that it needs to be stopped. That the school sent a note to this stepmother is an indication that the problem was pretty severe, and that some sort of action needed to be taken.
Ten-year-olds can be quite defiant and resistant to changing negative behavior. So, since I don't know the people involved or what other measures might have been tried by the stepmother, aside from talking to the child, I won't make any judgment in this situation. The proof of whether this was an effective way to curtail bullying behavior will be apparent down the road a bit, and won't be covered in the media.
One thing is certain. When bullying by a child is serious enough to bring a note from the school about that behavior, there is a real problem going on. Something needs to happen to change that behavior. None of us is in a position to judge what specific method will be effective with a particular child.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Did she get it right, I don't know. There is no manual on parenting. She is clearly paying attention to her daughters life, and that is good.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)today because you are wearing Goodwill clothes? Or are you still Kaylee? Would it be fair if everyone treated you badly simply because of the clothes you had to wear? What if we were poor and these were the only outfits we could afford for you?"
siligut
(12,272 posts)Just a string of people going to extremes and posting on the Internet. That kid is posing in those clothes, she actually looks cute. I say this is attention seeking behavior that the whole family enjoys. I hope everyone enjoys it because it is going to get worse.
What next? I just hope it doesn't involve animals.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)I probably would have chosen a different method such as making my child apologize and learning more about empathy, etc.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)It's just not rational and sends a lot of mixed messages.
Replies 150 and 165 have good commentary.
cynatnite
(31,011 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Video: http://player.ooyala.com/iframe.html#ec=ZsNnZwYjqjipDuygxAVcKgnK8YqZSkXD&pbid=3ce6404476914e86994d87aac3e4391b&docUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.sfgate.com%2Fsfmoms%2F2013%2F05%2F21%2Fmom-forces-daughter-to-wear-dowdy-thrift-store-clothes-as-punishment-for-bullying%2F
There she is all made up for the news interview, clearly not hurting for funds, nice rock on her ring finger, big house.
And she exclaims that the problem is all solved, the lesson learned, woo hoo.
How many people are FORCED to buy their childrens' clothes at second hand stores? Are they and their children subhuman? Lower than her?
Apparently, they are. This pitiful example of a parent missed a great learning opportunity, one in which she could have taken the daughter to homeless shelters to volunteer and while there get a look at the other side.
Instead, two days in poor people's clothing and all is good.
Bullshit. Shame on her. She's perpetuating the culture of entitlement and fashion at the expense of teaching about really important and lasting things.
And I hope the victims of the bullying don't face further abuse by this kid or by others as they grow up.
Triana
(22,666 posts)
gopiscrap
(24,719 posts)I would have gotten a good old fashioned spanking and then have to write an apology note. However, spanking is out now a days...and by making her wear dowdy clothes that to me is public shaming...so I don't know. I do know if my child was the peretrator (sp?) that I would have had the other child over for dinner and then also made my child write an apology and perhaps do some time helping in a clothing bank!
dbackjon
(6,578 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Humility is best learned young. Antisocial behavior like bullying shouldn't be tolerated.
And btw, what's wrong with that dress? I know the colors and cut are old fashioned, and it's not jeans that look painted on with the asscrack hanging out, but objectively what's wrong with it? It's not modern but it doesn't look bad.
firehorse
(755 posts)All the good vintage stores in NYC cost too much, maybe a trip to Utah for wardrobe shopping is in order.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)Chemisse
(31,339 posts)But I am not going to criticize this method.
Bullying has destroyed children's lives. There is no comparison between two days of embarrassment over clothing that is simply out-of-style, and the deep humiliation of enduring repeated bullying.
I would not have chosen this way of dealing with it, but if it was effective, I'm glad this woman did.
Gore1FL
(22,949 posts)CarrieLynne
(497 posts)in 6th grade my step mother made me wear the most horrid pants (hand made out of quilting material!) to school and of course I was teased till I cried....
Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)They cause more harm than they can ever hope to help.
I've raised two kids and never once spanked or shamed them as punishment. Neither had any significant discipline problem. I've never understood the reluctance of so many parents to research and learn basic parenting skills.
Hamlette
(15,556 posts)She should have made her husband, the child's father do it. Or the child's mother.
Step parent relationships are fraught with danger. We had some family counseling about it (I'm the grandmother) and were told the step parents should not be doing the discipline unless no parent is around. Trust me, as the grandma, it is hard to see step mothers, who have not been around the whole time, step in and start to enforce rules. Then as soon as the step mother has a child of her own, she treats that child better and do not think for one minute the step kids don't notice.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)But there is a limit to how far a kid should be punished, and making them a national story is going to far.
But then again, I can't help but notice that whenever I see parents that raise their kids with values like humiliation is a bad thing, it seems to me that those kids are the ones that NEVER get in trouble for bullying. Whereas in this case, I wonder why their child felt the need to bully somebody in the first place. Could it maybe be that this family practices this kind of discipline a lot? Hmmm...