Tushka Ok, has public safe rooms

[nadinbrzezinski]

Good for the town.

[Skittles]

1. Tulsa?

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. No, tushka

Rachel just covered this.

[Skittles]

13. !

sorry; don't watch TV but still learn something new daily

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. The name of the town is worthy for a short.

What amazes me, first shelter built in 1947, looks like an Israeli bomb shelter. The second above ground a few years back with a FEMA grant. They had to rebuild the school, parents asked about that, not a stadium.

[Warpy]

2. Apparently there are public shelters in Moore, too

but they were closed some time ago because the city felt people would be safer sheltering in place rather than traveling to one of the shelters.

They were wrong. There was enough warning this time for people to get to the shelters.

[brooklynite]

4. 13 minutes was "enough time"?

I can't agree with you.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. The Israeli model

Should be looked at...a shelter a block. That gives you time.

No, it's not cheap

[marions ghost]

7. That sounds like a good plan

What the shelters consist of could vary quite a bit. Schools, public buildings, of course but privately owned places could also be used if they qualified. Identify them and have a drill every year before the season.

Why don't people think like this? "Well nothings guaranteed" is just too fatalistic for me. A lot of deaths could be prevented.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Doing something proactive

Costs money. That means the T word...we can't have them taxes.

I swear I wish I were kidding

[marions ghost]

10. Well we all know where the money goes

and it's not to invest in the health and safety of the average American.

[Logical]

12. Well, is the cost worth it? about 80 people die a year in tornados. I think....

the money could be better used for other things.

[Cleita]

16. What other things?

You have been bloviating about this all day all over the place. Be specific. What other things should tax payer's money be spent on?

[Logical]

18. Child vaccinations, children healthcare, prenatal care. Etc. You seem to think there is unlimited..

money to spend on tornado shelters when there are much more dangerous things out there.

Wow, you are not really looking at facts.

[Logical]

19. LOL, also, if you cannot think of anything else but tornado shelters to spend money...

on then I guess you don't pay much attention to the lack of services for the poor in this country.

[Cleita]

21. All those things on your above post can be done and shelters as well. There is plenty

of money if it is directed to our needs other than war. It seems there are FEMA funds available just for shelters for the schools. I still don't understand how you can put a price on the life of even one child.

[Logical]

23. Here are the biggest cause of children deaths....

Motor Vehicle 6,683
Drowning 1,056
Fire/Burn 544
Poisoning 972
Suffocation 1,263
Firearm 138

What are your doing to stop these?

[Cleita]

24. Everything I can and I also care about children that die in tornadoes and

earthquakes when there was no need for it to happen. It's like denying vaccinations to children because their parents can't afford it when there is plenty to go around.

[Logical]

39. Let me know hw much money you are willing to spend to...

Stop 6000 children deaths per year in car accidents.

[Cleita]

43. Plenty. Over the years activists and I was one of them who lobbied for seat belts,

air bags and other safety measures in cheap cars, at one time only a luxury item in expensive cars. MADD has gotten a lot of drunk drivers off the road. I would prefer we didn't have to use autos to transport kids around and if funds are made available we can make cars smarter so they can avoid accidents even if their driver can't. Are you ready to pay the taxes it will cost for research and development?

[sabrina 1]

37. Well, if you think human life is important, I guess the answer is 'yes'. But if 'other things' are

more important, which appears to be the case in the US, such as Bailing out Wall St. Criminals eg, then I guess the answer is 'no'. Let them die. After all we let over 44.000 US Citizens die each year for lack of Health Care. Money goes to profit. That being our most important priority. Profits, money. People? We can always get more of them.

We are not generally known for our respect for human life, are we?

[Logical]

38. If money was unlimited you would be correct! n-t

[Cleita]

14. Apparently, there are FEMA funds available for just that.

There no longer is an excuse for it costing too much. I hope they didn't do it because they didn't want to take anything from the Feds. That would be an awful tragedy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I hope citizens demand it

Somehow I don't think they will

[Warpy]

29. Most people in the city had more warning

here's a map: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/21/moore-tornado-2013-path_n_3313032.html

People around Newcastle had little warning. People on the east side of Moore had half an hour.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. It is amazing, especially given that they had a disaster in 1999

Memories are short I guess.

[txwhitedove]

22. I usually like your posts. This particular one offends me. My grandfater was born

1899 in Oklahoma, grandma born in 1901 in Oklahoma, to landrunners, in sod houses. They NEVER saw a tornado like this one. I lived there 33 years and NEVER saw one like this. We had drills, sirens, knew all the rules for opening windows so they don't blow due to pressure, get in an inside room like hall or bathroom with blanket or mattress over your head, the storms move in a northeastly direction so you can see whether it is coming your way - IF you have warning. Sometimes they just drop out of the sky. All this "shoulda/woulda/coulda" is demeaning to the Oklahomans who live with tornado weather.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. I am actually offended by the idea

That the shelters, for the most part, are not there.

Towns that do have them do better. See Tushka.

And the could have, should have applies every disaster for different reasons.

Trust me, after the next major local fire, we will be talking of the, insert house hold here, that did not have defensible space and could have, should have.

This was a major storm. With climate change more serious storms, not less...will be the rule. So could have, should have...should become...what do we do for next time...as the sun rises, it will come.

[txwhitedove]

28. Yes, and I'm sure the real Oklahomans will be working on solutions as best they can.

[treestar]

33. And that they've been prone to this type of disaster for centuries

Should be a big state thing to be expert on tornados. Kansas too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Part of it is the cost

California has quakes, standards are not cheap, but a 6.5 we can weather. My view, we are not as hard ass as we should be, given we are in quake country.

We have wild fires. It used to be defensible pace was 30 feet, now it's 100 ft, and it's the law...you can get seriously fined. (Or as seriously as you can do it)

Yup, Californians complaint, a lot...but both have saved lives and property. But it is government intruding in people's life's. (yup, if I got a buck for every time I heard this I could retire) and the taxes, let me tell ya about those, in spite of prop 13.



Doing this takes a lot of money, and the T word being uttered can have people voted out of office.

[uppityperson]

8. For some there was, for others, not. It depends on where they were from the start of the

tornado.

[Warpy]

30. Exactly, people in Newcastle had little to no warning

People in Moore did, or they should have.

[gopiscrap]

20. Yes, if only we had our priorities straight

and spent money on people instead of weapons, business and destructive things

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. But it can be addressed

Some of our priorities need to change, and this goes for any disaster prone area

[txwhitedove]

31. Some fellow Okies want you to know they lost friends and family in 1999. They know the

drill and help each other since most have been in the same shoes.

Many in the midwest have lost a lot, love the area and prepare as best they can. Most cities have public places to go, city halls or church basements. Those without basements have contingency plans with friends or families. They are not ignorant on what to do. Okies grow up knowing the preparedness routine, learn to watch the sky, practice and have preparedness food enough to last a week. Most Oklahomans know what to do. Schools have monthly tornado drills, towns test their sirens every week but sometimes the best laid plans go awry.

Please do not act like they don't know what to do or like you know better. It really is offensive.

As far as shelters, there are a lot of places to go and most people know where to go. Not every house has a basement because not every house had one when built. Those that can be selective when home buying can wait for that perfect house with the basement, many have to buy what they can afford.

Until it happens to you, you don't really know how you would react.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Do me a favor, put me on ignore (I mean it)

Until it happens to you...

I used to be a first responder. Trust me, I have seen plenty and had to play god a few times with resources.

And I know that one of the things we did after a major (this qualifies) incident...is do a post incident review. The school destroyed (one of the two) was also leveled in 1999. So the question on shelters is the logical question from an emergency responder POV.

The town mentioned in the OP has not one, but two shelters. When their school was leveled...the question asked by parents was shelter.

That is the proper question. Before almost anything else...and as weather becomes more unpredictable and storms more violent, maybe I am nuts, but shelters every few blocks, hardenned shelters, sound logical...and it is not cheap, but it saves lives. This may very well mean...higher taxes....eeeewwww!!!!!

For the record, we are all pulling for you, and my local DMAT team is waiting for orders. You know why? It's not Okies, it's Americans. We care about other Americans, not whether you are okie, Californian, New Yorker, or from Virginia.

I guess we are in different wavelengths.

Have a good day.

[winter is coming]

36. Being a first responder isn't the same thing as having it happen to you, to your town,

your home, your family, your friends. People have had their homes damaged or destroyed. Others are revisiting the trauma of their own past experiences. Monday morning quarterbacking about what Moore "should have" done in the past and "must" do now is insensitive and unhelpful. I'm surprised an experienced first responder would indulge in such hurtful speculation. We don't know the ins and outs of the choices that Moore made after 1999 and in the absence of detailed knowledge, it's arrogant to assume that "we" know better and that "they" are somehow a bunch of callous, ignorant rubes.

[Logical]

40. Isn't it a logical question to ask.....

How much money do you spend to prevent maybe 40 tornado deaths a year?

This is not a horrible question. It is a practical one.

Is the money better spent on something else? Health care for uninsured? Childhood vacinations? Highway safety?

[MineralMan]

42. Not everyone uses Ignore.

Most people want to see what is written by fellow DUers. It is not a panacea. Ignorance is not bliss.

[Brickbat]

44. "Post incident review."

I'm assuming those are usually done by people who were actually there. Not speculators on the Internet.

[treestar]

35. They know they should build safe rooms

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/21/oklahoma-schools-tornado-shelters_n_3314821.html?ref=topbar

Ideology gets in the way.

[MineralMan]

41. Tushka, OK, has a population of 312.

It's a tiny community. Moore, OK, has a population of 55,000. It's a different sort of community. That so few people were killed in this EF5 tornado in Moore is evidence that the community is actually pretty well prepared for tornadoes, I think. I expected much higher numbers. Many of the schoolchildren survived. A few did not. Most people in the path of this tornado survived, despite the horrible destruction of buildings. A few did not.

So, how many public shelters does a city of 55,000 need? Enough for the entire population? I can't even imagine the cost of that. It's interesting that Tushka has a couple of shelters. One was built in 1947, I understand. Sounds like a great little small town, with citizens who probably worked together to build that shelter in 1947, mixing concrete, etc. It appears to be an agricultural community, so there would have been tractors and all sorts of equipment available. I'd be willing to bet that their shelter was community built. Lots of that stuff around in small towns.

I'm looking again at the death toll in Moore. It's amazing it's so low. Looks like people were well-prepared to me.