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Tue May 21, 2013, 11:46 PM

 

I'm sorry but where have the parents been?


Little kids cling to chairs and desks as their "shelter" while the high school up the street enjoys a multi-million dollar football stadium.

What's wrong with this picture?
Where are the parents?
Why haven't the parents been storming the school board at least since 1999?
Was everyone asleep?

Sitting back and blaming the government when they should be proactively involved is no way to go through life. This is "tornado alley". They have had repeated monster tornados cross deadly paths in Moore. This is their own children for god's sake.

Unbelievable to me that they have no bunkers built.

111 replies, 13619 views

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Arrow 111 replies Author Time Post
Reply I'm sorry but where have the parents been? (Original post)
SHRED May 2013 OP
Agnosticsherbet May 2013 #1
SharonAnn May 2013 #48
Cha May 2013 #111
JaneyVee May 2013 #2
SHRED May 2013 #16
Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #3
SHRED May 2013 #7
uppityperson May 2013 #9
SHRED May 2013 #12
Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #11
SHRED May 2013 #13
Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #17
dlwickham May 2013 #40
Dorian Gray May 2013 #82
dlwickham May 2013 #101
sorefeet May 2013 #92
Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #109
truedelphi May 2013 #26
LanternWaste May 2013 #95
ananda May 2013 #8
earthside May 2013 #4
treestar May 2013 #5
uppityperson May 2013 #6
winter is coming May 2013 #10
SHRED May 2013 #14
uppityperson May 2013 #15
SHRED May 2013 #19
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #22
SHRED May 2013 #24
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #25
SHRED May 2013 #27
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #29
SHRED May 2013 #31
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #34
SHRED May 2013 #36
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #37
SHRED May 2013 #42
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #49
Demo_Chris May 2013 #51
progressoid May 2013 #67
brush May 2013 #41
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #46
brush May 2013 #90
Sissyk May 2013 #98
brush May 2013 #107
Dorian Gray May 2013 #84
brush May 2013 #106
Dorian Gray May 2013 #83
Renew Deal May 2013 #28
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #18
TalkingDog May 2013 #80
Life Long Dem May 2013 #20
NYC_SKP May 2013 #21
SHRED May 2013 #23
NYC_SKP May 2013 #32
pacalo May 2013 #38
NYC_SKP May 2013 #39
uppityperson May 2013 #43
NYC_SKP May 2013 #47
uppityperson May 2013 #62
Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #52
laundry_queen May 2013 #35
defacto7 May 2013 #30
laundry_queen May 2013 #33
SHRED May 2013 #44
SCVDem May 2013 #66
cynatnite May 2013 #45
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #50
SHRED May 2013 #54
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #57
cynatnite May 2013 #58
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #60
cynatnite May 2013 #61
2naSalit May 2013 #55
uppityperson May 2013 #64
Inkfreak May 2013 #85
Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #53
cynatnite May 2013 #63
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #69
cynatnite May 2013 #70
Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #71
Sissyk May 2013 #99
laundry_queen May 2013 #104
Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #73
cynatnite May 2013 #74
Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #75
cynatnite May 2013 #76
Inkfreak May 2013 #86
HooptieWagon May 2013 #56
lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #59
dem in texas May 2013 #65
SCVDem May 2013 #68
No Vested Interest May 2013 #72
Niceguy1 May 2013 #79
SCVDem May 2013 #87
A Little Weird May 2013 #89
jeff47 May 2013 #94
SCVDem May 2013 #97
jtuck004 May 2013 #77
SoCalDem May 2013 #78
B Calm May 2013 #81
SCVDem May 2013 #88
A Little Weird May 2013 #91
pipi_k May 2013 #93
Nay May 2013 #102
pipi_k May 2013 #108
Nye Bevan May 2013 #96
Logical May 2013 #100
Junkpet May 2013 #103
gopiscrap May 2013 #105
applegrove May 2013 #110

Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:49 PM

1. The People through their government built that stadium and put their children's welfare

behind sports.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Reply #1)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:44 AM

48. Exactly! This is the voters and parents priorities. Like my R-W friend who's losing his job

at Homeland Security because of the sequester. He says it's Obama's fault. I must admit I have a little bit of schadenfreud about his situation.

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Response to SharonAnn (Reply #48)

Wed May 22, 2013, 11:05 PM

111. Of course, to rwingers.. everything is "Obama Fault" .. that's how the

brainwashing goes.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:49 PM

2. NEVER under-estimate a small-town's love of school athletics!

 

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:02 AM

16. Oh I don't...

 

They have zero excuses in Moore:

"And then in 2012, the district will get around $2.2 million to build a new press box and improve the bleachers on the home side of the field."

http://www.mooremonthly.com/index.php?news&action=view_news&news_id=164&a=1


---

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:50 PM

3. That's not fair

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:53 PM

7. Ask the injured kids if it's "fair"

 


Ask them if it's fair that they cling to chairs without a shelter while the high school stadium gets a multi-million dollar makeover.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #7)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:53 PM

9. Is it fair to blame "the parents"?

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #9)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:56 PM

12. A majority of parents...

 


...can turn a school board and also make the news.

Even a vocal minority could raise hell.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #7)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:56 PM

11. it's insenstive to blame the parents especially after this terrible disaster

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #11)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:58 PM

13. They are the people who live there...

 

...and are the ones who vote.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #13)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:03 AM

17. but they have lost their houses and their children

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #17)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:37 AM

40. and the loss of children could have been prevented

if the parents and taxpayers had demanded that the schools been built with tornado shelters

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Response to dlwickham (Reply #40)

Wed May 22, 2013, 07:06 AM

82. So we're blaming the victims

the people who lost their loved ones.

Awesome.

Sometimes I read something here that is truly hateful and shocking. It makes me very sad.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #82)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:11 PM

101. if you consider the truth hateful

I feel sorry for you

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #17)

Wed May 22, 2013, 09:40 AM

92. They lost them in 1999 too

How many lessons do they need before they take action

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Response to sorefeet (Reply #92)

Wed May 22, 2013, 06:54 PM

109. Lessons?

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Response to SHRED (Reply #13)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:13 AM

26. So parents who have had their first grader in

School for a mere eight months should be blamed? Jeesh!

For their child's death? Can I ask where it is that you live that you have no need to worry about your child's safety?

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Response to SHRED (Reply #13)

Wed May 22, 2013, 10:00 AM

95. If it ever gets to the point in which I blame the consequences of an F-5 tornado

If it ever gets to the point in which I blame all the consequences of an F-5 tornado on nothing other than local politics and local parents, I'll consider myself an under-educated, sub-literate political hack with a vulgar streak.

But I imagine you'd rationalize it...

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Response to Rosa Luxemburg (Reply #3)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:53 PM

8. How not?

Every damm school district I've come in contact with puts athletics above everything. that's what brings in the money and elites.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:51 PM

4. It's Oklahoma ...

... they expect god to protect them from the ill effects of heathenish weather.

On the other hand, god doesn't play football, although he/she will let your kid's team win if parents pray hard enough. That's why it is more important to build football stadiums.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:52 PM

5. Especially when they have enough Republicans to assert that

they could deal with it with no help from the evil feds.

They ought to have state of the art tornado protection in Tornado Alley. All based on their personal will.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:53 PM

6. Because parents don't care if little kids get killed, only that they have sports? That isn't fair

at all. Why did shrub invade Iraq? Where were those protesters? Was everyone asleep? See, it doesn't work that way either.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:55 PM

10. ^^ This. n/t

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)

Tue May 21, 2013, 11:59 PM

14. apples to oranges

 


Local school board elections and meetings are much easier to influence.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #14)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:01 AM

15. What office do you hold? What have you been elected to? What do you volunteer for, participate

actively at? I am just curious.

ETA, I understand the desire to find blame, to figure out who was at fault, but also do not think you are being fair.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #15)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:07 AM

19. Okay...

 


Volunteered and elected Chief Steward with the Teamsters Union at work. I have and do make a difference in people's lives.


I should have been clearer in my OP. It's not just placing responsibility on the parents although as a parent myself I cannot imagine living there and not raising hell about shelters. I question the entire community there in Moore and their priorities.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #19)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:09 AM

22. Have you raised heel to have shelters put in your school yet?

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #22)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:11 AM

24. I don't live in Tornado Alley

 


I live in California which has strict building construction codes for earthquakes.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #24)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:12 AM

25. A tornado can still hit you.

So you are willing to roll the dice?
http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/rare-october-tornadoes-touch-d/571920

Several tornadoes touched down in northern California on Monday, some causing damage to towns around the state's capital, Sacramento.

According to the Associated Press, any damage was minor and no injuries were reported.

The first tornado was reported near Yuba City shortly after 3:00 p.m. local time. Sutter County Sheriff and the fire department reported downed power lines and damage to structures.

A witness even described the tornado lifting up her barn and boat, according to KXTV-TV.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #25)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:14 AM

27. really?

 

Comparing SoCal with Moore, Oklahoma?

Really?

You're joking.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #27)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:15 AM

29. Read the link.

It is a dice game.

And the odds for a EF-5 to hit Moore was small. Even smaller since they were hit in 1999.

So don't judge. You are just as likely to get hit as they are. Maybe not a EF-5, but there is not much of a difference to your nerves when you are in one.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #29)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:18 AM

31. Look

 


I live in San Diego north coastal region. My grandkids live here also. If their schools were in danger of yearly tornados I would be demanding shelters.

Nice try.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #31)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:24 AM

34. But tornados don'y hit every year.

In the same place. This was a fluke.

Just like a tornado hitting you.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #34)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:27 AM

36. We don't have that kind of weather here

 


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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #37)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:39 AM

42. s-t-r-e-t-c-h

 

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Response to SHRED (Reply #42)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:45 AM

49. So is being hit by a EF-5 twice.

This was a beyond belief fluke. Just like you say about you getting hit.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #31)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:47 AM

51. I understand, you are devoting your time to Tsunami defense levees

 

...and other issues that are more likely to impact the children in your area. Good call.

As for Oklahoma, odds are good that they are investing in their children as best they can and in the projects that they think will benefit their communities the most. Like everyone does.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #31)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:34 AM

67. So your schools are all earthquake proof?

http://voiceofsandiego.org/2010/04/14/how-a-strict-earthquake-safety-law-doesnt-apply-to-all-schools/
“It’s stupid,” said John de Beck. “We’ve got a high-rise building in an earthquake zone that’s supposed to handle kids.”



http://voiceofsandiego.org/2011/11/14/south-bay-schools-flagged-for-earthquake-risk-getting-inspected/
That means that children go to school in about 200 buildings across the county where earthquake safety is still an unanswered question, the result of a long string of shortcomings in how California and its school districts have handled seismic safety.


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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #29)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:38 AM

41. So why didn't they start building shelters in 1999?

That should have been the first thing they did after the '99 storms. You don't roll the dice that the storms may not hit the schools. Once it's done, it's done. Then maybe put up the big fancy football stadium. Talk about misguided priorities.

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Response to brush (Reply #41)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:43 AM

46. Because an odd of being hit by A torndo is not as high as you think.

EF-5 even less.

To be hit twice are odds even the highest high roller would not try for. You have a better chance a the super big lottery AND being hit by lighting than to be hit by a EF-5 again.



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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #46)

Wed May 22, 2013, 09:32 AM

90. I'm sorry. That's not good enough.

They're in tornado alley where the storms occur every year. They know that. Public schools should have storm shelters. Rolling the dice that the chances of getting are too high is just irresponsible when school childrens' safety is at issue. That's just a no-brainer. And I've read that a couple of other schools in the area had them and suffered no casualties. Bet they'll put them in the rebuilt schools.

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Response to brush (Reply #90)

Wed May 22, 2013, 11:07 AM

98. Guess what?

If you don't live there, it has to be good enough. Not your call. Where is it you live, btw?

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Response to Sissyk (Reply #98)

Wed May 22, 2013, 03:17 PM

107. It's the community's call

You're right, it's not my call but the community sure should have made that call. Especially after getting hit in 1999. Guess it's about priorities. I understand their high school has a state-of-the-art football stadium. Wonder if they could've made the stadium a little less fancy and built a couple of storm shelters for the kids? Just sayin'.

And as I said in my earlier post, bet they put storm shelters in the rebuilt school.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #25)

Wed May 22, 2013, 07:10 AM

84. Yep.

We got hit by a tornado here in Brooklyn almost three years ago. I certainly never planned nor expected that to happen.

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Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #84)

Wed May 22, 2013, 03:13 PM

106. Yeah but most houses in Brooklyn have basements. nt

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Response to SHRED (Reply #14)

Wed May 22, 2013, 07:08 AM

83. Oh please

nobody could have foreseen this.

What a hateful OP. Blaming the very people who lost their loved ones and their homes.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #6)


Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:03 AM

18. Please.

This is not an everyday event. To blame them for this is wrong, cruel and over the top.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #18)

Wed May 22, 2013, 06:10 AM

80. You mean like the regular "Hundred Year Floods" we've been getting the past few years?

Climate Change is (duh) changing the climate. I will guarantee that this won't be the last F5 the area sees in the next few years. Adapt or die.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:08 AM

20. 20,000 survived?

 

"Frank Keating, a former Oklahoma governor, said on MSNBC that as many as 20,000 families could be displaced."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/21/18394047-search-and-rescue-winds-down-a-day-after-deadly-oklahoma-tornado?lite

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:09 AM

21. Greensburg Kansas has Tornado Shelters all along the south side of their new gymnasium.

 

And they have a new gymnasium because the F5 tornado tore right though the town the year before.

I went there, great people, great kids, and I was pleased to see the bunkers and even went inside of one.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #21)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:09 AM

23. ^^THIS^^

 

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Response to SHRED (Reply #23)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:20 AM

32. Here's a pic. Let's see if this loads:

 

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #32)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:34 AM

38. To be clear, that structure does have an underground facility, doesn't it?

That corrugated metal worries me.

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Response to pacalo (Reply #38)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:36 AM

39. No. And no need for it.

 

Even F5 200 mph winds won't take out an above ground sturdy steel structure properly anchored to a thick slab.

And they tend to be cheaper than below grade solutions.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #39)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:39 AM

43. Trees, planks, fences, cars being thrown in the wind might penetrate though

Cars, depends on the girders. Trees and other projectiles? I'd like to see tests that a 2 X 4 flung at 200 mph can't penetrate.

They do need to do something though, I agree.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #43)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:43 AM

47. So I had to do a quick search.

 

First, my engineering background and instincts are such that I would trust these things and almost feel better than being underground with a house on top of me, but in any event good sturdy corrugated steel, (nearly 1/4 inch thick) would make me feel safe and I think withstand what you're describing.

Check out this video:

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #47)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:19 AM

62. That is interesting, thank you. I was skeptical because all the impacts were broad based, glad

They threw some lumber end on to get the psi up. Research needs to be done for sure, the whole thing is awful.

After the tornado I was in as a kid, our diningroom was filled with a tree that came through the screen in a one inch tear. They firgured it cAme in butt first really fast then expanded out. Argh for ipad.

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #39)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:52 AM

52. You've never been through a tornado, have you? n/t

 

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #21)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:24 AM

35. Greensburg is the model that all areas hit with tornadoes should follow, imo. nt

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:17 AM

30. Because.....

Entertainment is in and makes for excellent income for business.

And... reasonable forethought and prudence is boring.

The American dream isn't about safety and welfare, it's about havin' a good time and feeling rich!

(sarcasm)

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:23 AM

33. I think the deal is

that humans have a tendency to believe it can't happen to them. And I believe that the people in Moore, because they already HAD it happen to them, and were told it probably would NEVER happen again in their lifetimes, became complacent and decided to roll the dice and kick the can down the road. The mindset of "we've already seen the worst of mother nature, how bad could it be next time?" not thinking that it doesn't have to be a tornado with the highest wind speeds ever recorded to cause destruction and death.

Plus, people have a tendency to believe that larger buildings are safer. They are actually more vulnerable, especially in rooms with large roof spans like gymnasiums. Maybe parents figured the buildings were 'sturdy enough' or large enough that interior rooms would be safe. Or maybe they did voice concern, but were placated with platitudes like the '99 tornado was a 'once in a 400 year event' and that it was 'unlikely to ever reoccur in the same area' and that the school itself should withstand most tornadoes.

Oh and also 'big gubmint'. The mayor was on CNN today saying they had 'discussed' making hurricane clips required for new buildings in Moore over the last few years, but decided it was too much 'big brother and all that' but that now they would revisit it. There's your attitude that prevailed in this instance.

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Response to laundry_queen (Reply #33)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:41 AM

44. well put

 

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Response to SHRED (Reply #44)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:30 AM

66. Ever notice the hate California gets

 

for being prepared for seismic events?

Overly regulated my ass! I live 5 miles north of the 5/14 interchange which collapsed.

I am happy for the regs and to hell with the haters!

We will survive!

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:42 AM

45. What are you apologizing for?

Are you really sorry that you are blaming the parents for the deaths and injuries to their children?

Is it easier to blame people based on where they live and who you think they may have voted for. How do you know they did nothing? Do you have any evidence to support your contention?

It is rather easy to look at something from a distance and make snap judgments.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #45)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:47 AM

50. +1

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #45)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:56 AM

54. I'd like to think...

 

...there were parents who did indeed raise concerns.

I can't find any evidence yet.

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Response to SHRED (Reply #54)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:07 AM

57. This was a beyond belief fluke. Just like you say about you getting hit with a tornado!

You know, you live in an earthquake zone. In a way your throwing stones while living in a glass house!

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Response to SHRED (Reply #54)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:08 AM

58. Are you still interested in blaming the parents?

do you think their children should be taken away from them...those that still have their kids and living in tornado prone Oklahoma?

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #58)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:12 AM

60. Yeah They are.

Living in a glass house and throwing stones.

#31 "I live in San Diego north coastal region. My grandkids live here also."

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #60)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:16 AM

61. Earthquake prone area, military installations that could be targeted close by...

potential for tsunamis, Mexican border very close by with all kinds of drug violence and all that.

I'm sure there are more dangers that's not coming to mind.

Seems to me that living in tornado alley is far safer than where this person lives.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #45)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:01 AM

55. FYI...

Actually, they WERE trying to do something in Moore and around the state... and I think the hold-up and blame circles back around to the usual suspects, Congress and their hatred of FEMA... the following piece doesn't actually blame Congress but it's all that came to mind as the reason for the delays.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/#51959570

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Response to 2naSalit (Reply #55)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:27 AM

64. Thank you. I can't hear the vid, what is it saying, more than what you wrote?

I imagine some were trying, can not imagine what theybare going through now.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #45)

Wed May 22, 2013, 07:19 AM

85. People who preface statements with "I'm sorry, but"

drive me batshit crazy. And you are correct.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 12:56 AM

53. Parents don't care about their kids unless they lose face in the process

 

Little Suzie is failing math. . .the parent now cares because people will say they aren't doing a good job. But the parents will deflect the blame and say the teacher isn't good.

Little Johnny is an amazing football player. the parent now cares because they can point to their "star" and say "see, he's my kid. I taught him." And the other parents will admire the parent.

Carlin put it best. When a kid succeeds, a parent is out there doing everything to lap up the credit. When a kid fails, they had nothing to do with that. It was Marilyn Manson, Butter Pecan Ice Cream, the school, violent video games, his friends, Johnny Knoxville or A Catcher in the Rye.

Parents are bullshit and full of shit. I agree with Carlin.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #53)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:26 AM

63. "Parents are bullshit and full of shit."

And you know this how?

That's a mighty big brush you have there.

Parents have lost their children in this tragedy. Would you say this garbage to their faces?

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #63)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:41 AM

69. I am really starting to think that people just can't understand.

They have these "Hind Sight Goggles". Add to that, many can't understand that the math was in favor of this not hitting Moore.

This was a huge super fluke. Tornados do not hit a town every year. The huge area that are prone to tornados is like a roulette wheel. The towns are like the numbers. A tornado in a storm, IF the storm is tornadic , is the ball. Good chance you don't get hit.

Many a time when the Doppler pick one up, it might not make ground.

So since they were hit once, the math was good for them not to ever see it again.

People just can't get that this was a FLUKE!

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #69)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:51 AM

70. Most tornados land in unpopulated areas...

That's how it was most of the time during my growing up in Oklahoma. I don't know if this was a fluke or if it's related to climate change. It'll take some time before we know for sure.

I do know that when I was a kid, we usually only had a few minutes to get to shelter when a tornado was close.

Today, there is more time. It's still not enough. If we can somehow predict direction, scope, and intensity it will save even more lives. An EF-5 is as powerful of a tornado as it gets and not much can withstand it.

I am tired of reading the post-storm judgments that seems to be prevalent among expert Google searchers.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #70)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:59 AM

71. It is a fluke for them to get hit twice in one small area in14 years by a 5

But the frequency of 5's are, I think (not a scientist), are due to climate change.

And I'm getting sick of the judgments too.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #71)

Wed May 22, 2013, 11:27 AM

99. SOME people just have to have other humans to blame.

It's part of their lives, I guess.

Gives them something to cause a stir over the internet with.

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Response to Lady Freedom Returns (Reply #69)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:46 PM

104. Not a huge super fluke at ALL.

Yes it's like roulette, but it's not a fluke. In areas that are tornado prone, the chances are actually high that a tornado will hit the same spot twice in 50 years. Some Moore official even said during any given spring day, Moore has a 1-2% chance of getting hit by a tornado. That's 1 or 2 tornadoes every hundred days. And - this may come as news - it's not just EF5 tornadoes that kill people. An EF2 will demolish a well built home so you need to be underground or in a reinforced shelter. When you go to EF2-EF5 chances, that's 20% of all tornadoes. So chances are that Moore would get hit with an EF2 or greater every 500- 1000 spring days, or once every 5.5-11 years. That's high risk and not a fluke at all. It's a bit of a fluke that it's an EF5 yet again, but tornadoes in Moore are NOT a fluke, and it doesn't take an EF5 to kill people and destroy buildings. The math actually says there is a significant risk. There are plenty of places in the US that have been hit twice since the 1950's (when they started keeping track of tornado tracks).

Where I live, EF5 tornadoes were supposed to never happen - the chances were statistically zero. Except we had an F4 roll through (would've been an EF5 today if using the enhanced Fujita scale, but Canada still uses the old Fujita scale and this was a long time ago anyway) that was on the ground for over an *hour* and had a 40 km long path of destruction. While we haven't had anything like that happen in the same city, we regularly get small tornadoes and tons of tornado warnings in the summer. Guess what? People PREPARE for tornadoes in the summer! Even though our entire province only gets like 15 a year (1 deadly F3 or greater only happens on average every 10 years). And my child's school has tornado drills.

Here's the page for that tornado. Remember, statistically, the chances of this happening in any given year was a big fat zero (check out how far north that is):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonton_tornado

Yet it happened.

Where Moore is located, it is really unbelievable to me that there aren't more shelters. We have basements here, so all the deaths with our F4 were people in cars, or in the industrial area or the trailer park (where the tornado had weakened to an F2). In areas where the tornado hit residential areas there were NO deaths, because we have basements. Rebuilding without a shelter after the '99 tornado was simply tempting fate and was extremely foolish, IMO.

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #63)

Wed May 22, 2013, 02:09 AM

73. Call it ten years of "good parenting" being in a classroom.

 

This tornado was a fluke. These same parents, mostly, would blame the school for everything. I'm sure there will be lawsuits against the school for NOT having a safe place for the kids to stay.

At the same time, these people would vote down the allocation to build the safe haven for tornadoes because it would raise their taxes 0.0000003% and "we're poor simple folk. We aren't made of money."

And again, I'm just quoting George Carlin.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #73)

Wed May 22, 2013, 02:12 AM

74. Parents have lost their children and this is the best you can do....disgusting. n/t

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Response to cynatnite (Reply #74)

Wed May 22, 2013, 02:20 AM

75. The OP stated why weren't storm shelters built, but a multi-million dollar football was

 

I gave my opinion. Whether you like it or not mean little to me. Football fields mean more than keep kids safe or educating them.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #75)

Wed May 22, 2013, 02:29 AM

76. No, football fields do not...that is bullshit...

And your opinion is cold, heartless and idiotic.

Parents are not bullshit. They love their kids.

Where was the outrage when it was being built? It sure as hell wasn't at DU.

It's easy to look back and point to every thing that can fit your narrative. You sit in easy judgment because you have the benefit of hindsight. You aren't the only one either. It's disgusting.

To make it worse, you denigrate parents in the worst possible way.

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Response to Nanjing to Seoul (Reply #53)


Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:05 AM

56. I have friends in Bay St Louis, Missippippi.

 

Hit by Camille, they thought they would never again be hit by a hurricane as bad. Then they got hit by Katrina, which was much worse. Its called denial.

There is also a lack of understanding of the laws of probability. Just because a 1 in million chance of an event happened a few years ago, doesn't mean you get 999,999 passes before it happens again. Take a coin flip...each flip, the probability is 50/50. If the coin comes up heads four flips in a row, the probability of the fifth flip is still 50/50.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:09 AM

59. The thing about a catastrophe that is "a once in a lifetime event"

 

is that no one alive could reasonably be expected to anticipate it.

When the tsunami hits the west coast, people will say the same thing. "Houses at 50' above sea level??? What were they thinking!"

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:28 AM

65. Football Crazy in the Southwest

I live in Texas and see the large football stadiums with press boxes built for high schools, same as Moore, OK. Every time I drive up Hwy 114, I see that big stadium built by Northwest ISD. The towns and schools go without many things so they can have these fancy stadiums. Haven't you heard about Friday Night Lights, it is an illness that affects many towns in this area.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:37 AM

68. Once you quit denying climate change

 

you can appreciate that the hhistorical weather patterns are shifting.

The Sahara wasn't always a desert ya know!

Tornado alley may also be shifting.

Why do people believe in invisible sky beings but ignore scientific data. Yeah, then call the scientists crooked.

Let's take a breath. We are all upset at the death and destruction and are showing it.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 02:08 AM

72. The school in which 7 children died had a basement;

in fact, the children drowned in the basement. Supposedly, persons were thought to be safe in a basement, but it didn't work out that way this time.

Oklahoma put money into safe rooms for some of their schools, but the schools in Moore were not included. You have to believe that these red states are low-tax states, and don't wish to increase their municipal or state taxes for this purpose.

When disasters strike, the local district says they can't afford repair, so its pushed to the next level, the state. the state, especially a red low-tax state says they can't afford repair & rebuild, so relief is pushed to the federal level, and that's when many red-state politicians refuse to allocate funding for disaster relief without offsets.

Another problem plaguing local school districts re funding is the graying of America. In many jurisdictions, older adults who have raised their family, or those who never had children refuse to vote for increased school levies. There often are not enough families with school-age children or with an interest in schools to vote for what is best for children.

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #72)

Wed May 22, 2013, 05:34 AM

79. red state/blue state

It doesn't matter right now... nobody has the money for such a massive project.

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #72)

Wed May 22, 2013, 08:12 AM

87. No drownings were ever verified.

 

Could you find the attribution for that 'fact' please?

Or we end it here and now.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #87)

Wed May 22, 2013, 09:30 AM

89. This has been reported in many places

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #72)

Wed May 22, 2013, 09:55 AM

94. No. Both destroyed schools did not have a basement

A local reporter claimed kids drowned, and presumed they must have been in a basement. Other reports said the kids were buried under a wall.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #94)

Wed May 22, 2013, 10:47 AM

97. So this myth is busted!

 

Every report mentions collapsed inner hall walls. No basement, no drowning.

I just want us to be accurate. Thanks.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 03:46 AM

77. You are just wrong, you know. If we had built shelters we could not

 


pay, say, the head football coach at OU $6 million a year, ($8 million or so in 2008, btw). And if we didn't do that where would drunken college students shoot the propane-fired shoulder guns fired during the games? In the woods scaring poor birdies? And the damn horses that pull the wagon would probably poop all over the streets.

And, sheesh, there HAD to be better uses for that bit of money and time it cost my dad to build the cellar behind our house, as did our neighbors, and the ones next door to them. I am sure we could have survived all the storms we sat out inside, and I am sure the other neighbors that joined us could have sat in their bathtubs and survived. Most of them anyway.

And I am sure the developers and politicians enjoyed the money and votes they garnered from not insisting that they build community shelters when erecting the hundreds of thousands of homes, and their associated schools and other structures, starting in the 60's, when building a structure on a 4'" slab became cheaper and more popular. Unlike my uncle, of course, when he built the trailer park in Moore, OK, and wasted the money providing a community shelter for the residents. That cost his family a few trips to Disneyland, I am sure. And anyway, those people might have been able to get their cars running and get away in time.

And the simple fact that of the 60 or so F5's that have hit since I was born, or the thousands of f3's, or the tens of thousands of lesser storms that strike there and around North Texas more frequently than any other place in the country I am sure has nothing to do with how important it might be for people to re-order their priorities, such as building a string of ponds near downtown so developers can make more money, or attract a pro basketball franchise.

I only spent 50+ years living with those storms in Oklahoma City, having moved away 8 years ago, but I am quite sure there were better things to spend money on than, say, safety.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 04:25 AM

78. It's the tornado version of "Duck & Cover"

The parents have probably been voting NO on school bond issues, and they have been electing "fiscal conservatives".


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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 06:28 AM

81. Why can't they have football and

 

storm shelter bunkers too? Why do some always have to blame football?

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Response to B Calm (Reply #81)

Wed May 22, 2013, 08:16 AM

88. Just follow the money! nt

 

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 09:39 AM

91. This thread makes me sad

There are a lot of factors that go into what gets done at different schools.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 09:44 AM

93. It's Tornado Alley but...

as one woman said yesterday on the news, she's lived there in Moore for 40 years and nothing like this has ever happened.

I would imagine that the longer that sort of thing goes on, the less urgency people have, as opposed to somewhere along the Eastern Seaboard where hurricane season always brings the risk of a hit based on past history.

I personally would not live in Tornado Alley. I was living in TN back during that big tornado outbreak in April of 1974 and would never again want to live in an area so prone to tornadoes.

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Response to pipi_k (Reply #93)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:32 PM

102. Huh? I thought Moore or right nearby was hit by a bad tornado in 1999...what is she talking

about?

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Response to Nay (Reply #102)

Wed May 22, 2013, 03:32 PM

108. I don't know...

I wasn't paying full attention and only heard her say that while she was standing there surrounded by tornado wreckage...



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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 10:37 AM

96. Ah, smug, condescending second-guessing from the comfort of your keyboard.

I hope you are enjoying your feeling of effortless superiority.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 11:35 AM

100. Wow, what a totally worthless and idiotic post! n-t

 

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 01:43 PM

103. This is a human fault through and through...

...or we'd have taken action on climate change. We wait until things become a problem and then through our "ingenuity" <sarcasm> come to action. Unless you're Al Gore or Bill McKibben, you're as much at fault for the death of the children in OK as their parents are.

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 02:50 PM

105. Fully agree

it's always about fucking money!

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Response to SHRED (Original post)

Wed May 22, 2013, 07:45 PM

110. They will now. Apparently there is an adage that a tornado will not strike in the same place twice.

Now they know it is wrong. A tiny underground bunker costs $3000. A big, 'one pour seamless' concrete above ground tornado shelter costs $8000.

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