Pope Francis says atheists can be good

[Addison]

Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good, Pope Francis has said in his latest urging that people of all religions, and none, work together.

The leader of the world's 1.2 billion Roman Catholics made his comments in the homily of his morning mass at his residence, a daily event at which he speaks without prepared comments.

He told the story of a Catholic who asked a priest if even atheists had been redeemed by Jesus.

"Even them, everyone," the pope answered, according to Vatican Radio. "We all have the duty to do good," he said.

"Just do good, and we'll find a meeting point," the pope said in a hypothetical reply to the hypothetical comment: "But I don't believe. I'm an atheist."

Francis's reaching out to atheists and people who belong to no religion is in marked contrast to the attitude of his predecessor, Benedict, who sometimes prompted complaints from non-Catholics that he seemed to see them as second-class believers.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/22/pope-francis-atheists-can-be-good

[Dawson Leery]

1. This is a re-affirmation of Vatican II.

[upaloopa]

2. Well that should have some effect on the

religious wars here on DU

[loyalsister]

23. I hope so!

[CJCRANE]

3. "You will know them by their fruits".

Good people do good things and help others.

It's a simple concept which RWers don't always seem to understand.

[Addison]

7. True, as may have been the case with Mother Theresa

Who wrote:

"I call, I cling, I want ... and there is no One to answer ... no One on Whom I can cling ... no, No One. Alone ... Where is my Faith ... even deep down right in there is nothing, but emptiness & darkness ... My God ... how painful is this unknown pain ... I have no Faith ... I dare not utter the words & thoughts that crowd in my heart ... & make me suffer untold agony.

So many unanswered questions live within me afraid to uncover them ... because of the blasphemy ... If there be God ... please forgive me ... When I try to raise my thoughts to Heaven there is such convicting emptiness that those very thoughts return like sharp knives & hurt my very soul. I am told God loves me ... and yet the reality of darkness & coldness & emptiness is so great that nothing touches my soul."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/aug/24/wasmotherteresaanatheist

[CJCRANE]

8. Reminds me of something I read by Al Ghazzali...

He said that the best believers are people who do good, not for fear of punishment of hell or the reward of heaven, but just for God.

But for me as an agnostic, I can't grasp the concept of God, so I think to do good without need for reward or fear of punishment, but just out of compassion, is the highest virtue...maybe Mother Theresa fits into this category.

[Addison]

14. Maybe God is just short for Good

And certainly, where is the virtue in only doing good to gain a reward or avoid a punishment?

Jesus is said to have told people that it's all too easy to love your friends and family; you should also love your enemies. Because loving people who you know will love you back is self-serving; loving those who will not repay your love demonstrates a higher morality.

I suppose I am an agnostic since I can't believe in a deity as it is commonly described, but I can believe in abstract ideas like love and goodness, which might just as well be called "God."

[elleng]

26. Good, yes.

For ME, 'short' for NATURE.

[Phillip McCleod]

31. I've always felt the opposite..

..if god is love or god is the cosmos as in deism.. why not drop the culturally loaded term 'god'?

[glinda]

47. They didn't have "spellcheck" back then....

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. Nope. It's short for "Send your money to me."

[Amonester]

9. Heck, most of them don't even seem to always apply.

To begin with.

(Re: cheney/bush lies leading to Iraq's war.)

[sofa king]

4. Still don't care.

But thanks for taking me off the "burn at the stake" list.

[Tien1985]

10. Bwahahaha nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

21. Oh you're still on that list....

Just not for religious reasons.

[CarrieLynne]

35. LOL! Still...this pope seems to be a little more progressive.....

[lindysalsagal]

56. Give them time. You'll be back on soon enough. So will I.

Their political organization needs hatred and scapegoats to keep the sheep focused.

So I don't give a crap what the current leader of the haters says: They still hate. Even if he doesn't.

[sofa king]

63. Concur.

As far as "Just do good, and we'll find a meeting point," goes, atheists and agnostics have been there, waiting, for two fucking millenia. We know the U2 song by heart, dammit.

[Egalitarian Thug]

5. But we're still going to Hell.

Isn't there a forum for this?

[Fuddnik]

19. I was already there.

It's on Grand Cayman.

Then I went to Heaven. Free drinks at the Rum Factory.

[Arkana]

6. Damn, this is not going to go over well

with the established Catholic hierarchy. Talking to non-Catholics and atheists like they're fellow human beings is a big no-no for Vatican royalty--er, leadership.

[Tikki]

11. As an atheist, I have had no problem being good...

...seems to come naturally to me...



Tikki

[LuvNewcastle]

12. What about gay atheists?

I guess they're evildoers, huh?

[warrprayer]

13. I like this guy!

What a breath of fresh air from the old nazi farts!

[MNBrewer]

15. That's exactly what this atheist was saying about catholics

Even THEY can be good, if they aren't bishops or archbishops, especially.

[progressoid]

16. Thanks Frank.

Can I call you "Frank"?

[Warren DeMontague]

17. Oh, that's a relief.

Said none of us, ever.

Edited to add: I am reflexively nonplussed by ANY sort of Moral Posturing from the Vatican (which strikes me as ironic. If they were doing it as a postmodern performance art piece, however, it would be brilliant) but I do appreciate the Pope's reaching out to people who don't believe, assuming it's done with respect, to equals, not with the hidden subtext of proseltyzation that these things so often contain.

[Dorian Gray]

18. Of course they do

they are human. We all are. We all have capacity for good. Or evil.

It's important that he states this because many people need to hear it from someone that they view as a leader of our faith.

[Javaman]

20. Gee isn't that so nice of him.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

58. I know...

Get right down to it and it's the condescending tone of a snob.

[Brainstormy]

22. a second-class believer?

"in marked contrast to the attitude of his predecessor, Benedict, who sometimes prompted complaints from non-Catholics that he seemed to see them as second-class believers."

Geez, I'm at least in third class. Maybe cargo.

But maybe the quality of your belief should be rated like hotels or restaurants. Triple A? Five Star?

Guess I'd still be a dump.

[Moonwalk]

24. Kinda like being Third-Class on the Titanic...

...you get to be in the best third class ever (treated nicely), but with the understanding that you're still not going to be given a spot in any of the lifeboats when the ship goes down

[SunSeeker]

25. At least this Pope mouths the teaching of Jesus.

Whether he walks the walk has yet to be seen. I am a bit discouraged by his decision to continue the harassment of the Nuns on th Bus.

[LittleGirl]

27. I quit listening to the pope

back in the 00s when I gave up the Catholic church. I kept going to one parish for a few years but have totally sworn off the church and religion all together for the past four years.

[unblock]

28. holy crap!

and I mean that in a good way!

[juxtaposed]

29. If sauteed in a wine

[Arugula Latte]

30. Gee, thanks so much, Francis!

That means so much to me! I'm glad I've been redeemed by a bearded zombie from ancient Judea!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I've got some babies to eat.

[Chemisse]

32. I like this pope more all the time.

Perhaps they made a mistake in the papal voting procedure, and 'god's will' actually did get through!

[Celldweller]

33. I like this one...

Seems like a real loving, honest and caring man.

[Scootaloo]

34. We're not redeemed by Jesus

There's nothing to "redeem." Redemption relies on the concept of original sin, which is one of the most horrible - and most obviously bogus - ideas religion has come up with (not the most; "murder people so the sun keeps rising!" was even worse, for instance)

[4_TN_TITANS]

36. I'm an atheist, but I'm liking this guy.

So used to religious people that talk but don't walk, where I live.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. "Even them"??? Nice to see where I rate on the list.

[Poll_Blind]

38. "Just do good, and we'll find a meeting point"

PB

[Humanist_Activist]

39. Why the fuck would anyone listen to this homophobic, misogynist jackass?

He has no moral standing or standards.

[kairos12]

40. Don't need endorsement from an apologist from the Dirty War

[Libertas1776]

41. Funny...

as an agnostic bordering on atheist, I feel the same way about Catholics! Even them (Catholics, and religions in general), everyone. To the Pope and the church, I, as a non believer I say, Please do just do good, and we'll find a meeting point. No tirades against the "sin" of teh gay, no rants against safe sex and contraception, and no degradation of women...just do good deeds. Get off the political soap box and do more clothing of the meek and feeding of the hungry, actively working for social justice and not just talking about it...that is the point at which we will meet, my good chum.

[eppur_se_muova]

42. Uh, yeah, we really needed to hear it from him.

Anyone who believes in all-powerful fairy spirits in the sky should not be relied on as an authority.

[ZRT2209]

43. "my country is the world, and my religion is to do good" - Thomas Paine

love this

[SCVDem]

44. So the pope sez

"Atheists should be seen as good people if they do good"

WTF is up with the disclaimer? Didn't anyone else catch that? IF?

But any baptised POS preacher who molests children is automatically good?

Sorry your popeness. You can shove that up your pope chute!

[Terra Alta]

45. I like Francis a lot better than his predecessors.

Guy still has a long way to go, but he can't be making the radical right too happy with comments like that.

[paleotn]

46. Well, Francis, thanks for the kind words...I think....

...On the "do good" scoreboard, I'd rank most of my non believing brethren well ahead of most of your flock and damn near all of your clergy. That birth control bit and not giving a damn about the life of the mother pretty well discounts the Catholics. At least he can take solace in the fact that the average Catholic is light years ahead of the protestant fundigelicals when it comes to things like social and economic justice...you know, really doing good.

[Demo_Chris]

48. That's nice of him. So can Catholic Priests, at least when they are not raping children...

Or covering up for the crimes.

Until he does something REAL about all that -- the rape, the torture, the castrations, the slavery -- until he rounds the evil bastards up and hands them over to the police for prosecution (or tosses them off the roof of Saint Peters), he can save his hypocritical bullshit.

[LostOne4Ever]

50. Mmmm I'm liking this Pope alot better

Nice to see the RCC moving toward the future for a change!

He just might be the change they need.

[Smarmie Doofus]

51. And Jews don't actually have horns.

This particular paint dries excruciatingly slowly.

[hrmjustin]

53. Welcome to DU my friend!

[Beacool]

54. Some of you don't get it.

So much prejudice against the Church.

There are some Catholics (even within the clergy) who think that Jews and atheists are not going to be "saved" and go to Heaven, that they are not good people. The Pope is speaking to them and trying to dispel their prejudices. He's basically saying that people are good as long as they do good deeds. He has also reached out to Muslims.

Compared to what they had in the past, this Pope is a breath of fresh air.

They complain,” the Pope said in his homily, because they say, “If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good.” And Jesus corrects them: “Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good.” The disciples, Pope Francis explains, “were a little intolerant,” closed off by the idea of ​​possessing the truth, convinced that “those who do not have the truth, cannot do good.” “This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon.” Pope Francis said, “The root of this possibility of doing good – that we all have – is in creation”

[Generic Brad]

55. Thank you, Pope Francis

This is one area I agree with him on. Now, if we could only get Republicans to embrace this view, what a world it could be.

[gopiscrap]

57. Really? and it took a fucking pronouncement from the Pope?

[OnionPatch]

59. I'm starting to like this guy.

Unlike so many of our Christian "leaders" he seems like he actually pays attention to the teachings of Jesus.

[cbdo2007]

60. Whatever happens in the afterlife, happens irregardless of your living belief system.

So this is a good viewpoint for him to have.

[cynatnite]

61. I'm still gonna burn like a pig on a spit according to these people...

Don't care all that much what they think of us atheists.

[Heywood J]

62. Who is this man and what has he done with the Pope? Where is he keeping the pod? (NT)

[callous taoboy]

64. Mom always told me I had a special purpose!

[alp227]

65. Dear Pope Francis:

I'm an atheist and all I can say is: I don't need religious folk to make me secure about my worldview. Who else agrees with me?