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[Bonobo]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Bonobo) on Thu May 23, 2013, 10:02 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Recursion]

1. No, the tie does go to the skeptic

Assertion is categorically different from denial; assertion needs evidence and denial does not.

[Bonobo]

2. Indeed. True skepticism, applied equally always trumps speculation.

The key here is applying it equally.

[The Magistrate]

3. Something Decidedly Off About That Fellow, Sir....

[limpyhobbler]

5. Tobacco companies used faux-skepticism to create doubt around medical science for decades.

They realized that to "win" they didn't need to be correct. They only needed to introduce doubt and create confusion about the effects of tobacco. As long as the public thought the science was still questionable, the companies were free to go on about their evil ways.

[sigmasix]

6. cynicism is being sold as skepticism

The American social dialogue about factual statements pertaining to the natural world has been disrupted and the place of the skeptic is being replaced by low information cynics with a personal stake in disrupting the evidenciary based world view we hold.
Right wing extremist fund many "think tanks" and social engineering specialists to come up with approaches towards factual statements about the natural world that purposely negate the progress and potential of human beings and thier innate, infinite value.
skepticism is a healthy part of any human endeavor to understand our natural world, but the past several decades indicate that the skeptics have become the cynics and that this rate of reversal for true skepticism to cynicism is most probably related to the increase in right wing extremist anti-intellectualism, science bashing and educational revisionism.
The damage being caused by antiAmerican right wing extremists reaches beyond some bad legislation and hypocritical social positions; they are actively trying to destroy America's scholastic and scientific success stories through revisionist education attacks and Koche-developed attacks on higher learning in the form of financial aid in return for control over the educational platforms and sources allowed in the university system.

Healthy skepticism is a sign of a healthy democracy- Hate-filled cynicism as a knee-jerk response of Republicans and teabaggers (supposed legitimate political parties) towards science and other intellectual activities is a sign of a failing democracy.
When the new Republican/fox "news" party defected to the AntiAmerican right wing extremists, they placed our country in dire straights in more than one way; our cohesion as a people is being actively dissolved by right wingers at work destroying constructive, proAmerican skepticism and replacing it with corosive right wing cynicism.

Remember: teabaggers hate nothing as much as they hate America, and they will do whatever is neccessary to destroy her. Disrupting the way in which we arrive at consenses is an attack at the core of what makes America great. And teabaggers hate it when people assign greatness to America, unless it is from before the civil war.

[LostOne4Ever]

7. So what you are saying is

Just because I can't prove it, does not mean it is not true.

&

Just because I can't disprove it, does not mean that its true either.

[CrawlingChaos]

8. I have learned to watch out for excessive and inappropriate use of "woo" and "Occam's Razor"

Fairly reliable sign of pseudo-skepticism ahead.

Looks like an interesting blog - I'll definitely have to poke around. Thanks for posting.

[Bonobo]

9. I think that is wise.

The true application of skepticism would mean applying equal rigor to ideas that are "mainstream" (TM) s well as less popular explanations for observed phenomena.

[TalkingDog]

12. Thank You.

People really do fail to grasp this simple point.

[tiny elvis]

10. most people cannot prove to me that the world is round

they must appeal to authority
they are vulnerable to my pretended scepticism

take care of your arguments and the pretend sceptic will be confined to his bubble

[Progressive dog]

11. Skeptics do not just doubt

The skeptics I see mostly cite the real science and data. They would be perfectly willing to accept proof, but the claimant is unable to provide it.
When someone claims that the outcome of an argument should be to derive clarity and value, that someone is not interested in truth. Facts exist outside the minds and the psychological needs of the arguer.

[Bonobo]

14. Yes, that is, in fact, the definition of fact.

Fortunate that you run in circles where people who claim to be skeptics are actually working with data to back up their claims.

Sadly, in this unscientific world growing ever more so, many people seem to feel that simply rejecting claims that "seem" hard to believe qualifies them as a skeptic in the scientific sense. They do not understand they are simply crowd-following cranks who are afraid to abandon the safety of the mental equivalent of a well-groomed lawn. They do not want to risk an unknowable world.

But true skepticism requires that the person first empty their cup, so to speak, and be prepared to take mental challenges that sometimes eschew the accepted explanation.

[Archae]

13. This website is a crock of shit.

Not once does the site ever name anyone in these "elitist" groups mentioned a number of times, and on one page the site describes this strawman "SSkeptic" with a picture of Hitler's "SS" logo.

[Bonobo]

15. Oh. Nice story. nt

[Archae]

16. Look for yourself.

http://theethicalskeptic.wordpress.com/map-of-deskeption/

There's also a picture on that page of Stalin, Khruschev and their cronies, right above a photo of a group of people but the group (who again get the Hitler's SS logo) cannot be indentified.

This website is very good at creating strawmen.

[Bonobo]

17. It sounds like you have chosen to look at pictures instead of read.

The site makes a lot of intellectual arguments and you have shown a terrific ability to circumvent them by focusing on some graphics that relate to very little.

[Archae]

20. Fine. Then who are these "SS'Communists" and what have they said or done?

My guess is this website has been created by a guy who is selling woo.

[Bonobo]

24. Okay, you have successfully attacked the website owner.

Congratulations. It doesn't change the fact that many people claim to be skeptics without rigorously applying those standards to both sides of the equation.

[sufrommich]

18. This site is filled with Alex Jones type "theory".

Are you sure you read it?

[Bonobo]

19. I only read the page I linked to.

Calling it "Alex Jones" type seems like intellectual laziness though.

I suppose if there was any one particular thing you disagreed with, you maybe could discuss it, but that doesn't change the truthfulness of the part I linked to.

I am not championing the author of this blog, merely linking to what I think is a truth that is rarely recognized when discussing skepticism.

[Archae]

21. What you linked to is a strawman.

I have never seen anyone remotely like this "Elmo Karbunkle," in skeptic circles.

[sufrommich]

22. Here's his definition of "social sceptics", which he illustrates

with the Nazi SS insignia:

informal organizations never held to public account
staffed by professionals who volunteer time extra-professionally
claiming to represent correctness or the well being of the people
organized and personal public ridicule tactics,
‘investigators’ pretending to do scientific inquiry
academic celebrity promotion,
scientific method masquerades,
propaganda one liners and slogans,
domination of education unions and systems
enforcement of informal professional penalties for dissent,
funded legal intimidation of those who dissent,
squelching of free speech through warnings to media,
enlisting the aid of government agencies to enforce data
media forum and publication channel policing and monitoring and
media channel domination.

Social Skepticism derives its name from the similar set of practices employed by the political-intelligence socialist control agencies of Eastern Europe (KI, Okhrana, AVH or East German Stasi), during the 1958 – 1983 era of the Cold War; an era on which I focused in detail during my days in Intelligence.



SSkeptics (Social Skeptics) are members of an elitist club which practices Deskeption, who’s members also falsely identify themselves as ‘skeptics.’ SSkeptics are self or institutionally appointed activists, posing as rational and logical subject matter experts on a broad variety of topics in which they have performed shill research; upholding an objective of vitiating all targeted unwelcome thought sets. Far from actually practicing skepticism or science, SSkeptics seek to intimidate others through apologetics promoting a specific cabalistic religion. A religion featuring key mandatory doctrines lacking scientific basis, passed to the public as unassailable truth.


That's Alex Jones type nonsense. The last thing this country needs is more attacks on skepticism.

[Bonobo]

23. Well I support actual skepticism.

As long as it is practiced correctly, fairly and with equal skepticism aimed at the opinions they find emotionally comforting to suit their world view.