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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsApple avoids taxes, then complains US schools are lousy
BY ALEC MACGILLIS
Its remarkable how quickly the storm of outrage over Apples epic tax avoidance has passed over Washington. All it took was for Apple CEO Tim Cook (2011 compensation: $378 million) to share some yuks with senators about their love for his companys products (I love Apple. I love Apple, enthused Claire McCaskill) and to cast Apples extreme measures to avoid taxes (paying not a cent on $30 billion in global profits parked in an Irish subsidiary that has as much physical reality as a leprechaun) as a mere matter of subjective perspective: The way that I look at this is theres no shifting going on that I see at all, Cook told John McCain. I see this differently than you do, I believe.
Theres one aspect of the Apple tax avoidance that Im particularly surprised has been allowed to slip unscrutinized. As youre probably aware, the Silicon Valley giants have been in Washington a lot of late for something other than explaining the postmodern relativism of tax liability: to lobby for immigration reform. They're interested, in particular, in greatly expanding the number of H-1B visas, which Apple, Google, Facebook and the rest of the tech behemoths rely on to hire foreign software engineers. They need to bring these workers over from India, China and elsewhere, the companies say, because there simply arent enough qualified native ones being trained here at home. One of the biggest champions of this demand was none other than Steve Jobs, Cook's predecessor, who made the pitch directly to President Obama in 2011. Sometimes, the companies phrase it euphemistically: The lack of H-1B visas, Googles public policy shop explains, is preventing tech companies from recruiting some of the worlds brightest minds. Mark Zuckerberg was slightly more candid in his big Washington Post op-ed, throwing his weight behind immigration reform: To lead the world in this new economy, we need the most talented and hardest-working people (you hear that, Middle America?) And sometimes it comes out just plain awkward: There are simply more smart Indians and Chinese than there are Americans, Google CEO Eric Schmidt said over the weekend on CNN. (Yes, he is of course literally correct, sample size and allthere are more dumb people over there too!but still
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Weve become so used to hearing our educational system disparaged from all corners that we have insufficiently zeroed in on this part of the Silicon Valley argument. There are many reasons why our schools fall far short of the idealstudents arriving unprepared, bureaucracies constrained by hidebound rules, etc. And one reason is, yes, inadequate resources, more in some parts of the country than others. Which brings us to Apple. From the deeply-reported New York Times story that laid bare its tax avoidance last year:
''I just don't understand it,'' he said in an interview. ''I'll bet every person at Apple has a connection to De Anza. Their kids swim in our pool. Their cousins take classes here. They drive past it every day, for Pete's sake. ''But then they do everything they can to pay as few taxes as possible.''
As that piece reported, Apple not only does its utmost to avoid paying federal taxes in the U.S., but also to minimize its taxes at the state and local level. One favorite trick: Nevada. The Times: With a handful of employees in a small office here in Reno, Apple has done something central to its corporate strategy: it has avoided millions of dollars in taxes in California and 20 other states. Apples headquarters are in Cupertino, Calif. By putting an office in Reno, just 200 miles away, to collect and invest the companys profits, Apple sidesteps state income taxes on some of those gains. Californias corporate tax rate is 8.84 percent. Nevadas? Zero.
more
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113276/apple-avoids-us-taxes-then-complains-our-schools-are-lousy
CincyDem
(6,358 posts)This is our version of benghazi.
Exxon, Apple, GE...these f'ers who don't pay any taxes...show me law they broke. Who doesn't do their utmost to avoid paying taxes. If you think they should pay more, elect representatives that well change the law. We need to stop wasting our time bitching about people who are smart enough to take advantage of the laws that are written.
Do we "blame" retires who move from new york to florida to retire because the tax rates are better? That's no different from the california nevada thing with apple.
Sheesh - change the tax code, don't waste time on people who follow the law.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)and buy more pols to change visa laws so that they can avoid the consequences of their actions?
I see this as no better than the actions of the banksters who almost destroyed this country in 2008-2009. But keep protecting poor little apple. And yes, they are but the poster corp for the whole lot of them. But they brought it on themselves.
It's not about what is legal. It is about what is moral. And what duty a company has towards the country that gave it everything.
emulatorloo
(44,124 posts)Dems have put all kinds of legislation forward to close corporate loopholes. Republican FUCKERS block every one of them.
So work to get Dems elected.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)I have never voted for Republicans.
CincyDem
(6,358 posts)...and we're a land of laws.
The unfortunate f'ing reality is that our elected officials, as chosen by the majority of voters (not necessarily the majority of the population)...this is what they want.
When the PR goes bad it's easy to say those guys as Apple shouldn't have used the loopholes created by congress. It's easy for those reps to say "but but but...I didn't think anyone would actually do that"...
If you didn't want people to do it, why did ya leave the f'ing door open. Close the damn thing.
And let's be clear, I'm not sure in today's world that we can stand around and say that any company has a "duty" toward the country that gave it everything.
I was born here. I grew up here. I was educated here. This country gave me everything. But that doesn't mean that I pay more taxes than the law requires. I have and will continue to vote for people who say "american's need to pay more taxes for quality education, road, services". I have and will continue to vote against people who say "we should cut the salaries of amazing public servants so that american's can pay less taxes". But until those votes have an effect and those taxes start going up - I'm not over paying.
Anyone else out there ONLY paying what the law requires.
Downtown Hound
(12,618 posts)And that is what posts like this do.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)The article focuses on immigration policy, but it really bears underlining that the underfunding of community colleges like DeAnza and others in Silicon Valley is no joke.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)I never said "Ha!" so loudly in my life as when I saw that headline.
liberal N proud
(60,334 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,709 posts)No taxes, no criticism.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)GOD I'm sick of this crap.
WHEN is someone going to counter this obvious horseshit from fiscally arch-conservative cheap labor executives?? NEVER. We have no voice any more. Nobody KNOWS US. Nobody cares about anonymous ghosts on the internet. They only care about the opinions of very successful accidents, barely legal thieves and heirs. He who hath all of the gold maketh all of the fucking rules.
They didn't need an army, they just needed policy and money and they did it glacially.
Have fun being the last wealthy people in a very poor nation, assholes. When you're dragged out of your homes, don't say I didn't warn you that greed is the practice of death.
leftyohiolib
(5,917 posts)they controll the structure that protects us and uses us against us we have no recourse. talking is a joke anymore b/c as you said "Nobody cares about anonymous ghosts on the internet." when the people in power that are there to protect our life,liberty and the pursuit of happiness are bought by others then turned against us there is no other option. elections are stolen, no one cares , politicians are bought off , no one cares but start dragging people out of their homes takes negotiations to a next level. i would prefer the were dragged out and thrown in jail.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)"Do you really want to be the last rich guy in a poor country?"
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Have it be a rallying cry . . .
Brigid
(17,621 posts)I'm having fun just imagining the looks I would get wearing it.
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)If anyone starts making a phone in the USA I will switch ASAP.
redqueen
(115,103 posts)SCVDem
(5,103 posts)highly overpriced iShit!
Let's build a red, white and blue Droid!
coldmountain
(802 posts)All Apple's competitors do the same. Apple mostly just copied Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Microsoft, etc.
SCVDem
(5,103 posts)Why?
coldmountain
(802 posts)My dad's highly skilled machinist job went to Germany, the company said there's where the manufacturing is so they had to follow the customers.
madokie
(51,076 posts)Real shit don't matter as long as we have Benghazi, IRS, AP to go on about
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)Skittles
(153,160 posts)those people lining up for overpriced crap are DISGUSTING
Response to n2doc (Original post)
Post removed
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)so this whole line of argument should be an embarrassment to whoever wrote it.
n2doc
(47,953 posts)Or do you think that colleges and universities are funded by property taxes?
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)The corpos are just a tool for the 1% to behave however they like without any accountability or responsibility.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... not "get talent they can't get in the U.S." which is a GOD DAMNNED LIE!!! As a tech worker who's having to look for work again two months early at the end of next week and am working sick and begging to work on memorial day as a contract worker for 30% less than what I got paid ten years ago, this DAMN program is creating a slave labor program to drive down wages of those working in this industry. Should we "retrain" for another profession which was what was told American auto workers many years back when their profession was under similar attack? Why should I retrain at an old age for something needing less skills and less needed on the world market simply because my country doesn't want to protect me as a worker and sell out those in my career? I've loved this kind of work, am good at it, and should be rewarded for that, not have it stolen away from me! The tech industry really used to be more of an open market when it started without layoffs and decent rewards for those in it. Now after the laddering scams that lead to the dotcom bomb at the end of last century, it's becoming more a consolidated monopoly mess where startups no longer have goals of "going public" but of getting acquired by another company instead. The politics of monopoly power lobbying have completely corrupted it too like other industries are corrupted.
Why should an intelligent student in high school, much as he might like to work in tech fields, be STUPID enough to get in to huge debt and invest a lot of his time and effort in a tech degree when he's going to get paid crap if he gets a job at all in this field when he gets out. Just putting more money in to our schools isn't going to solve the problem. It's bigger than that. And the first step is to say absolutely NO to Orrin Hatch and his GODDAMNED amendment to the Immigration bill which is totally screwing up what should be a clean Immigration bill which then could be honestly sold to the public instead of the crappy snake oil that it is now that robs Peter to pay Paul! (and it will wind up more paying people like Rand Paul and less helping real immigration reform that its being advertised as).
Republicans should be told that you should be able to support a CLEAN Immigration bill, if you really want to get those demographics to become Republican voters, and that Democrats won't give in on the crappy amendments that are the real goal of what they are doing with it now, and the look at demographic support for the GOP by helping pass it as just icing on the cake. It should be told to them that the demographics they get from supporting a clean Immigration bill is the ONLY benefit you should take and be eagerly voting for to get voting power back. OTherwise, go jump in the lake! Unfortunately we have too many corporatist Democrats too like Schumer in the gang of eight that have routinely supported this H-1B program expanding in the past.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)I hear you buddy
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Hoped to get more attention than it did. But its had to really get this more visibility when it only affects a certain segment of the work force, and many others can't understand the dynamics of how we've been getting screwed by this program for over two decades, so it's not like its anything new. What is new is that they want to ramp it up at a time when it should be ramped down, and it's going to make this profession that much more of a graveyard, and take away what was once a beacon for the American workforce to have leadership on the world scene. If you keep out kids from being a part of this profession, we will be doomed to not be its leaders any more, which is sad. One more group of jobs that's pushed aside so that more of us can work a couple of jobs at fast food restaurants.
I also called my senator, Senator Merkley's office, who's been great at doing things like this with his effort to expose and give visibility to the chicanery that pushed through legislation for Monsanto. I'm hoping that he'll take up the challenge of also exposing this as well, though it would be harder to go after a bill that has a lot of good parts of it that should be split out from it, and he'd be painted as standing in the way of good immigration reform. He's up for reelection in 2014, so I can't blame him too much for not doing more on this, but if he does, I'll be so behind him and encourage more to do so, as I did earlier this week at a local meeting of Democrats here.
I also called the AFL-CIO to thank them for their help in this too, even if it loses in the end. Tech workers really need to start getting organized in to unions, etc. if this bill passes. I think this event would perhaps be the impetus for the launching point for that sort of thing. Perhaps a new SIG for ACM (Association of Computing Machinery) like SIGLabor or something like that.
There's too many tech workers who are Libertarians who see this sort of "sell out" and wonder how the Democrats will support them, when they as I noted before "Rob Peter to pay Paul", and don't want to be the "Peter" of the Democratic Party. If Democrats stood up more for tech workers here, I could really be more empowered to encourage more of them to join it later. Democrats need to understand these dynamics in this industry.
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
Initech
(100,075 posts)To take the low wage retail jobs with extremely poor working conditions we give them, so we want Congress to pass laws to give us a complicit populace who will bend over at our command. So we will keep people stupid and that will keep the IRS off our backs.
Rex
(65,616 posts)These are vampire companies, uncaring about those tiny creatures that work and die for them so someone in another country can complain about his crappy 4G connection.
They are only interested in making money PERIOD. Just like all the other predatory capitalists out there that don't give ONE SHIT about America or the people that live here.