Swedish riots rage for fourth night (long-term unemployment and poverty)

[Fire Walk With Me]

OccupyHarrisonburg ?@OccupyHburg

Swedish riots rage for fourth night in unrest sparked by long-term youth unemployment and poverty. JV #ows #ohb... http://fb.me/2DSkfYPRk


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/23/swedish-riots-stockholm?guni=Network+front%3Anetwork-front+main-3+Main+trailblock%3ANetwork+front+-+main+trailblock%3APosition6

Hundreds of youths burnt down a restaurant, set fire to more than 30 cars and attacked police during a fourth night of rioting in the suburbs of Stockholm, shocking a country that dodged the worst of the financial crisis but failed to solve youth unemployment and resentment among asylum seekers.

Violence spread across the Swedish capital on Wednesday, as large numbers of young people rampaged through the suburbs, throwing stones, breaking windows and destroying cars. Police in the southern city of Malmo said two cars had been set ablaze.

Media reports said a police station was set on fire in Stockholm's southern suburb of Rågsved, where several people were also detained. No one was hurt.

Rioters defied a call for calm from the country's prime minister, going on the rampage after nightfall damaging stores, schools, a police station and an arts and crafts centre in the four days of violence.

(More at the link. Cross-posted from Occupy Underground. I try to pay attention to such things and didn't know Sweden were hit by forced "austerity" and unemployment. Thank you US "media".)

[clarice]

1. Can someone enlighten me.....

What sort of a system is the Swedish government and economy based on? Democracy? Monarchy ? Free Market? ?

[clarice]

2. no one ????? nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. I want to learn as well. This story came to me as a complete surprise.

I'd thought the Netherlands regions to have remained untouched, or at least unravaged, by the bankster fraud forced upon central Europe.

[clarice]

8. Fire, I actually broke down and looked up a link.

[link:http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Society/Government-politics/Facts/Swedish-System-of-Government/|

[Fire Walk With Me]

16. Interesting, thank you! n/t

[Matariki]

46. Sweden isn't part of the Netherlands. Or 'Netherland regions'.

It's part of Northern Europe - which I always thought of as having a good social safety net...

[Fire Walk With Me]

60. Apparently my geography is as poor as my awareness of their current goings-on.

Countries which aren't in flames or shoving their business in other countries' direction just aren't as highly visible. Time to broaden my horizons.

[Matariki]

62. :-)

And I thought that Sweden was more socialist than it appears to be...

[HiPointDem]

34. Sweden was an early adopter of neoliberalization. A lot of people still think Sweden is what it was

circa 1969. It's not.

[Dreamer Tatum]

3. And here I thought Sweden was perfect.

Oh well, there's still Venezuela.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. "And here I thought Sweden was perfect"

Why would you think that?

[Dreamer Tatum]

6. It's one of the few countries used to contrast the bad ol' USA.

Others include Iceland and Denmark.

[clarice]

7. I don't get it. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

9. All the countries you mentioned....

have fewer murders, a higher life expectancy, lower healthcare costs and less wealth inequality than the USA.

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. And as we speak, more rioters. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

11. And how many deaths from the riots?

Let's compare the number of deaths from the riots to the number of deaths from guns in the USA during the same period.

Sound good?

[Dreamer Tatum]

13. Sweden, where even the riots are awesome.

I bet Swedish farts smell like lilies.

[Cali_Democrat]

14. Who said riots are awesome?

[Uzair]

54. Oh for fuck's sake

Because the good ol' USA has NEVER had riots.

[Quantess]

55. apples to oranges. (no text)

[Blue_Tires]

27. So the U.S. has nothing to learn from Swedish society?

[MNBrewer]

29. Nope. Riots.

We never have riots.

Except for when we do.

[HiPointDem]

35. that's because most americans don't know (because US media doesn't see fit to tell them) that

sweden was an early adopter of many facets of neoliberal policy.

It's not what it used to be, and these riots are some of the fruits of that.

e.g.:

Child poverty increases in Sweden

http://www.thelocal.se/31762/20110201/

Swedish equality fades away as rich get richer

http://www.thelocal.se/31762/20110201/

[dixiegrrrrl]

32. Apparently the Swedish PM and Karl Rove are buddies.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022889503#post3

[Rex]

49. Dam...how does that slime ball find work?!

Turd Blossom seems to find a way to creep up and destroy a country and get away with it, over and over and over. I guess that is what happens when you don't arrest and try known war criminals. They continue to commit crimes and wanton destruction over societies.

They are addicted to the destruction imo. Makes their pathetically small lives have some kind of meaning imo.

[dixiegrrrrl]

52. He is the Prince of Darkness. Slime wannabees pay him big time for his tricks.

'Tween him and the Lord of Darkness ( he of the no real heart) destruction and disruption will continue to make profits for like minded minions.

[Rex]

45. How cute.

.

[jessie04]

12. This is terrible..

but not surprising.

These people have been victims. They come to Sweden looking to live their lives with their culture and religion and are met with ostracism .

They live in near ghetto conditions, work at poor jobs and aren't given much help by the swedes. Apparently sweden doesn't think much of multiculturalism.

[Quantess]

15. That's not true.

Unemployment is very high for foreign born people, but they get welfare if they can't find work. It could be better, of course, but it's not so bad in Sweden that they want to leave.

I don't know where you get your information.

[jessie04]

19. OK...why do you think they're rioting?

Think this relates to the swedes unacceptance of multiculturalism ?

[geek tragedy]

20. Why should Sweden elevate multiculturalism over

gender equality and other core Swedish values?

If the people don't like an open society that favors secularism and opportunities for women, they can always return to Somalia.

Also note that Sweden has committed to multiculturalism by allowing fairly liberal immigration policies, in contrast to Denmark.

[Quantess]

21. It all started when

a 69 year old man threatened police with a meat cleaver, and was shot to death by police.

The ones doing the rioting seem to be young muslim males, who --and it's no secret-- have really high unemployment compared to native swedes. Unemployment is high for all young people fresh out of high school, but it is much worse fo those who don't speak good swedish and who have middle eastern sounding names. There is discrimination. There is culture clash.

But Sweden calls itself "a welfare state" and it's true. Nobody starves in the street when they can't find a job. They can move somewhere else, can't they? But they choose to stay here just like they chose to move here.

If you must know, I live here. That's how I know you're wrong.

[HiPointDem]

36. it has less to do with multiculturalism than neoliberal economic policies.

[socialist_n_TN]

53. BINGO! Got it in one.....

Since the 90s the neo-liberals have been rolling back the "welfare state" and privatizing. And like everywhere else neo-liberalism has been tried, it's failed.

The neo-liberals always tell you about the 500 new millionaires that were created, but they NEVER tell you about the 750,000 that fall into poverty as a result of their policies.

[leftynyc]

17. I wasn't aware

they were immigrating into Sweden under a threat. And what do they expect to accomplish by rioting? Whose sympathies are they hoping to get?

[clarice]

18. I don't know, but

Sure is a lot of fighting for a bunch of neutral people.

[leftynyc]

24. I have no idea

whom you are referring to.

[clarice]

42. Sweden. nt

[Quantess]

22. Also, There are no "poor jobs" in Sweden, due to high minimum wage

and pretty good labor laws. Once again, I don't know where you are getting these ideas.

A person either has a job and makes a decent living, or they don't have a job and get welfare, or they are in school and get a small stipend to live on. Welfare of course does not pay well, but it means a roof over your head and enough to survive on.

[HiPointDem]

37. Spending on welfare benefits such as pensions, unemployment and incapacity assistance has fallen

by almost a third to 13 percent of GDP from the early nineties, putting Sweden only just above the 11 percent OECD average.

Sweden has seen the steepest increase in inequality over 15 years amongst the 34 OECD nations, with disparities rising at four times the pace of the United States, the think tank said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/21/us-sweden-inequality-idUSBRE82K0W320120321

[Quantess]

38. That's nice to know. However, I was on the topic of wages, welfare, and student aid.

I was specifically responding to the "poor jobs" comment.

Thanks for the additional, somewhat related but slightly off-topic information, though.

[HiPointDem]

39. and i was responding to your comment about how they get welfare if they don't get a job.

"or they don't have a job and get welfare"





under-25 unemployment = >25%.

[Quantess]

40. I'm not sure what is supposed to be so compelling about those figures.

The fact is that weath inequality is still minimal in Sweden. Sweden is still on the short list for the lowest wealth inequality in the world. It seems like a weak point for you to argue.

(edit for reading more carefully)

[HiPointDem]

41. OECD nations include greece, hungary, spain, turkey, portugal, poland, mexico, estonia, hungary,

and the czech republic, none of which have particularly high welfare benefits & many of which have rather low ones.

that's why it's surprising that sweden, once the epitome of the welfare state, is only slightly above that average.

wealth inequality is not still 'minimal' in sweden.

"Wealthy countries such as Sweden can show a low Gini coefficient for disposable income of 0.31 thereby appearing equal, yet have very high Gini coefficient for wealth of 0.79 to 0.86 thereby suggesting an extremely unequal wealth distribution in its society. These factors are not assessed in income-based Gini."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_coefficient

[Quantess]

43. This is interesting.

I really do get the sense that Sweden aspires to be like the USA in terms of material wealth. The commercialism, the spending habits, the waste that goes with it, are similar to what I have seen in the US. I absolutely, no doubt, sense that the direction Sweden is going, in any case.

But instead of restricting immigration, as all of Sweden's neighbors have already done (Finland, Denmark, and to a lesser degree, Norway), there is no sign of any of the major Swedish political parties putting any brakes on inviting in masses of asylum seekers and refugees and other immigrants. Sverige Democrats (SD) are right wing, too right wing for most swedes. They support cracking down on abortion, and are against gay rights. But their rise in popularity seems to be based on their anti-immigration stance.

The employment rate is still pretty good in Sweden --but not if you are a middle eastern immigrant who can't speak very good swedish or english. Asylum seekers on average spend several years being unemployed and living on welfare before finally finding a job. The jobs in Sweden all pay decent, however.

But swedish is slightly more difficult than english to learn, and there is no pressure to learn swedish when your neighborhood is predominantly farsi or arabic or turkish speaking. There is also the prejudice that comes with middle eastern sounding names on job applications, before they even get a chance to show that they speak swedish like a native born swede.

I wonder what is coming next? Probably, the leaders will declare that "something must be done about all these unemployed welfare-sucking-drains on society, so we need to get people to work!"

The plan will be carried out by cutting welfare even more, lowering the minimum wage, and inviting in thousands more refugees to fight over the scraps.

[moondust]

23. "60 Minutes" did a recent story on Afghan boys

making the long journey to Europe in hopes of a better future. One of the boys said Sweden was the best of the European countries for them thanks to the generous social welfare programs there.

[leftynyc]

25. That's a shitty reason to emigrate

and expect the home population to welcome you with open arms.

[moondust]

26. It is.

They seem to be going to Europe to establish themselves and find work, and those that end up in Sweden fare better than elsewhere in Europe. I don't know if they targeted Sweden for the benefits or if they just found it out after arriving. It looks like a dangerous journey where some are abducted and exploited along the way.

[Blue_Tires]

31. To be fair, when you're poor and your country is mired in shit

almost anyplace will seem like Shangri-La...Especially when the myths/dreams/fantasies/stereotypes (i.e., tall, oversexed, busty blondes) begin to override your thought process and handle on reality...

There has also been a huge public and political backlash on heavy muslim immigration from the previously more popular countries like England/France/Holland/Spain/etc., so maybe they think they're going to a place less "full"

[leftynyc]

33. I have no problem with immigration

My grandparents also came for a better life - and found one after learning to speak English (which they did as soon as they arrived and even met at the class). They both worked until retirement, as does every person in my family. And for those who think it was easier then than now, my grandparents had to see signs in windows saying "no Jews or dogs". Every large group of immigrants had to put up with that kind of crap - the Irish, the Italians. Coming to a place and expecting the host country to hand over a check to keep you fed and a roof over your head is very unfair to those who get up every single day to work for a living. And rioting because they're not happy with the size of the checks seems surreal to me. When the inevitable economic slowdown occurred, I can't really blame the citizens of the host countries from resenting those who do nothing but live off the state after opening their borders to welcome them. The immigrants have a responsibility also.

[Daniel537]

44. Total bullshit.

Most of family emigrated from Cuba to Sweden in the 1960s, and none of them have ever felt discriminated against or marginalized by Swedish society. I personally lived there for a few years in the 90s and felt the same way. The Swedes are the friendliest and most welcoming people you will find. These rioters are assholes who don't take advantage of the opportunities they have been given. If anything the Swedes need to screen out people like this who have no interest in integrating. But i'll bet you none of them would be interested in going back to their countries of origin.

[eissa]

47. Yep, well said

We have family that immingrated to Sweden and love it there. Like most asylum seekers, they survived on welfare and living in cramped apartments until they were able to stand on their own. Then again, unlike these assholes, they have no problem integrating into society and have no expectations of changing Swedish society.

I don't care how "bad" these rioters claim their circumstanes are, they are infinitely better off than they were in their homelands. And if they feel they're not, there's a pretty easy solution to that.

[HiPointDem]

48. or possibly things have changed in sweden since the 60s.

[Quantess]

51. The '60s? Oh please.

Last edited Fri May 24, 2013, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

The rioters' parents weren't even born yet in the 1960s.

A lot has changed since the '60s! Oh...really?
No way, man, it's still people diggin' the naked pot orgies in the VW bus.

[HiPointDem]

56. maybe if you paid attention to the conversation....you might get it. nothing to do with pot.

The poster i responded to begins:

Most of family emigrated from Cuba to Sweden in the 1960s, and none of them have ever felt discriminated against or marginalized by Swedish society."

I realize that your intent is just to trash anything I say, but you could take a bit more trouble so it wouldn't look so obvious.

[Quantess]

57. Curious... what do you think about the lengthy response I wrote to you downthread?

edit to add, post #43

[HiPointDem]

58. i haven't seen it yet.

[Quantess]

59. Oops I meant upthread.

You're smart enough. You'll find it eventually.

[HiPointDem]

63. you mean this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2897062

"I really do get the sense that Sweden aspires to be like the USA in terms of material wealth."

I don't understand what you mean by 'aspires'. Sweden has been a capitalist country for a long time, it has a long-standing capitalist elite linked by blood and marriage, and it has a higher per capita GDP than the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita

Alfred Nobel was a capitalist tycoon, with business interests all over the world. There were plenty others like him. Like these guys (who are still big players):

The Wallenberg sphere, an international banking- and industry group under the control of Wallenberg family through the holding company Investor AB, based in Stockholm, Sweden, is today Europe's largest family-controlled business empire. In Sweden alone, the sphere was estimated to indirectly control about a third of the national GDP in 1990.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wallenberg_family

Not despite but because of persistent Social Democratic political influence since the Great Reversal in 1932 have a few families and banks controlled the largest listed firms in Sweden. The Social Democrats have de facto been the guarantor rather than the terminator of private capitalism since the political and corporate incumbencies have been united by strong common interests. Incumbent owners need the political support to legitimize that their corporate power rests on extensive use of dual-class shares and pyramiding.

While the Social Democrats only get the necessary resources and indirect support for their social and economic policies from the private sector if the largest firms remain under Swedish control so that capital does not migrate.

The extensive use of mechanisms to separate votes from capital however drives a significant wedge between the costs of internal and external capital that causes an enhanced (political) pecking order of financing where new external equity is strongly avoided. By not encouraging outsiders to create new firms and fortunes, and by not fully activating the primary equity markets, the heavy politicized system has redistributed incomes but not property rights and wealth.

The result is an ageing economy with an unusually large proportion of very old and very large firms with well-defined owners in control. 31 of the 50 largest listed firms in 2000 were founded before 1914, only 8 in the post-war period and none after 1970.

http://www.nber.org/papers/w10641

The Swedish welfare state was a capital-labor truce that came out of the Depression, similar to the New Deal. Big capital gave labor a measure of income security and a relatively equal distribution of income in exchange for relative labor peace, while keeping the economy relatively closed to foreign capital and even aspiring domestic capital.

The neoliberal turn in Sweden represents an opening to foreign capital and globalism, and as such wages are being pushed down, public goods are being privatized, and labor protections, social benefits are being cut back. Also, unions are under attack, and its been going on for a while:

Sweden's Assault on Labor
by Samantha Sparks

STOCKHOLM - There are many reasons for trade unionists in the rest of the world to envy their counterparts here. Swedish unions boast an average 81 percent membership rate...

Seen from within Sweden, however, things could hardly look worse. A new coalition government, elected last October 1, clearly favors employers over labor. The leading Moderate Party has strong ties to the Swedish Employers Confederation (SAF), and has already initiated a number of significant changes in labor legislation based upon SAF position papers. In a move that holds uncertain consequences for unions, the government has also launched a drive to smash the public sector's monopoly on welfare services. For its part, after years of growing hostility to cooperation with labor, SAF has seized the opportunities opened by the new government to launch what looks like an all- out counterattack...

"I don't know why, but they [SAF] are trying to make life worse in Sweden," says Lars Nyberg, of the steering committee of the blue-collar Swedish Trade Union Confederation.

http://www.multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1992/05/mm0592_10.html

Not that the big Swedish capitalists weren't always globalists, but the home market was relatively closed to foreign entrants that might aspire to control it.

Also, the unemployment rate in Sweden is currently higher than that in the US. If that's your standard for a 'good' employment picture, all i can say is that i have a different standard.

[Quantess]

61. WTF are you insinuating?!

"I realize that your intent is just to trash anything I say, but you could take a bit more trouble so it wouldn't look so obvious."

I do not appreciate whatever it is you are suggesting, because whatever it is. it is a weak attempt at deflection of.. something that you do not feel comfortable talking about.
Anyway, back to the topic... a nonexistent topic that YOU chose to berate me for.

[HiPointDem]

64. what is this something that i don't feel comfortable talking about? i have no idea what you mean.

your snippy, inattentive and dismissive responses indicate your intent.

[Quantess]

50. That is completely true!

Swedes are less racist than most cultures, and are not judgmental about race or skin color. Swedes have an expectation, however, that you have to fit in to the culture "anpassa sig". This seems to be more crucial than speaking good swedish.

For instance, setting fire to cars and throwing rocks at police and firefighters who are trying to do their job is viewed as worse behavior than animals in a zoo. Not kidding. Swedes are non-confrontational people.

Muslims rioting in Paris was bad, but French people are more expressive in nature compared to Swedish people. This is only going to get uglier, and it's going to result in muslims facing even worse discrimination. That's very sad for all the law-abiding middle eastern people who are trying to fit in in Sweden.

[Aerows]

28. They'd faint then

if they came to the US. LOL.