Kaitlyn Hunt's parents lied

[cali]

Look, I'm totally against a felony sex abuse charge against Hunt, but it looks like her parents have been engaging in some revisionist history.

Hunt's parents claim that Hunt was 17 when they started dating. She was not. She was 18. Her birthday is in August and the girls, as reported by Hunt started dating in November of 2012 when Hunt had been 18 for 3 months. The other girl was not 15 according to the affadavit, but 14 at the time when they started having sex.

Here's the affadavit:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/05/21/us/hunt-arrest-affidavit.html?_r=0

[dipsydoodle]

1. I thought a 4 year difference

was covered by your Romeo and Juliet laws ?

[cali]

2. no.

not if the younger party is under 16 and the older party is over 18. That's Florida law. It varies from state to state.

[HooptieWagon]

3. Actually, if the younger party is under 16 period.

if they were 14 and 16 its illegal. Under 16 years of age is below age of consent, no matter the age of other person.

[LisaL]

28. Depend on the state. Some states have 3 year difference. Some don't have any difference.

[arthritisR_US]

105. Kick!

[napoleon_in_rags]

4. Its too bad.

I think they should talk to the younger party. Was she consenting? If so, young people will do stupid things in the name of love. We've all been there.

[madville]

6. She can't legally consent at 14 or 15

That's why it's commonly known as statutory rape. I know a couple of men that have been convicted of this, it's always the younger party's parents pushing for prosecution.

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. But how old is the other party?

Are they as young and dumb? Surely, 14 & 15 year olds aren't being punished the same way for hooking up with each other. Of course its a big deal if there is a true adult on the other end, someone in 20's or 30's but I don't think that's what happened here. It sounds like a hookup between a couple of young and dumb highschool kids.

[onenote]

14. The law draws lines

Always has, always will. We treat 18 year olds as being "adult" enough to assume a variety of responsibilities and obligations. The obligation to know not to engage in sex with a 14 year old is one of those responsibilities.

[whathehell]

101. Yes. I don't think a felony charge is warranted at all in this case, but there is generally a

big difference in maturity between a 14 year old and an 18 year old.

[MADem]

129. This is true. 18 year olds can vote and sign up to join the military.

They can enter into contracts. The only thing they can't do is drink.

[LisaL]

29. She can not legally consent.

So describing this as consensual is not correct.

[backscatter712]

66. The law says she can't consent, but she did.

Calling this "rape" is ridiculous.

Inappropriate? Sure. But she wasn't forced.

[msanthrope]

86. No...the point is that she cannot consent. nt

[Travis_0004]

102. So if a 50 year old man had sex with a 14 year old girl, it would be ok if she consented?

I'm assuming your answer would be no. (at least I really hope so).

Now you can argue that there is a big difference between a 50 year old and 18 year old, and I would agree, but if a 50 year old sleeping with a 14 year old is not ok, then a line has to be drawn somewhere, we may just disagree on where it should be drawn.

[napoleon_in_rags]

84. I'm just asking for a sanity check here.

Those laws are in place because much older predators can "groom" young people to "consent" with their controlling personalities. But is that what happened here? Or was it a case of a high school senior dating a high school freshman? I think we make an error if we categorize this 18 year old in the same camp as those predators.

[Jennicut]

87. It happened all the time when I went to high school.

It was the 90's and no one cared as much back in the day I guess. It was probably illegal but no one went to jail.

[AverageJoe90]

5. Something smells off about this "Story" you've posted.

Trashing. Fuck the NYT.

[cali]

11. there is no story. It's the fucking affadavit.

that's all. and if you had clicked it on instead of making shit up, you'd know that. duh.

[krawhitham]

32. An affadavit is the "victims" side of the story

May be true may not be true, one set of parents claims they started dating in NOV the other set of parents claim they started dating before her 18th birthday

That is what trials are for

[cali]

35. are actually suggesting that the dob of Kaitlyn is made up by the cops?

please. there is so basic info there that is not in dispute

[krawhitham]

108. DOB is not what is in doubt

When the relationship started is

Once group claims Nov 2012 the other claims they started dating before that

The OP claimed the parents lied because of the date they started dating, so far we only have one side given a date when they started dating. So we do not know if the parents lied or not

[lunamagica]

36. Did you even read it?

I reports what Kate said, so it it isn't just the victim's side of the story, and she herself confirms the date the parents gave

[krawhitham]

107. I did, you did not or did not understand

The victim states when the relationship started and the two times they had sex

The 18 verifies when they had sex but says nothing about when the relationship started in the affidavit

[blueamy66]

7. Wow! 18 and 3 months

That makes all the difference!

[cali]

12. yes, it makes a big difference

her parents and Hunt claimed that she and the younger girl started dating when Hunt was 17. That was a lie. They claimed the other girl was 15 when they had sexual contact. That was a lie. they claimed the younger girl's parents waited until Hunt turned 18. That was a lie.

[blueamy66]

21. The "3 months" doesn't matter to me.

I think that these age of consent laws are BS.

I knew what I was doing and thinking when I was 14. My best friend, as a freshman, dated a senior. According to "the law",the senior boyfriend should have been arrested, charged and marked as a sex offender for the rest of his life.

People are going crazy about their beloved "children". Come on folks.

[LisaL]

77. Just because you think some law is BS, doesn't mean you can then just ignore it and do as you

please.

[blueamy66]

97. I didn't. But friend did. Thank God your police didn't intervene

Nt. cause this is just stupid now ....

[blueamy66]

98. Well, after thinking about it, yes I can

nt.

[davidn3600]

99. I dont think he said to ignore it. I think he's just making an opinion on it

Everyone keeps saying..."the law is the law." But no one said it isn't the law! That's not the point!

Just because something is the law, doesn't mean it is right and should never be revisited or changed. People have the right to voice their opinion on the laws. That's the way a democratic country works.

Maybe these are laws that need to be looked at again. Putting an 18 year old in jail for up to 15 years because of a high school relationship is ridiculous. That's just flat out stupid.

[WinkyDink]

92. Well, the law IS the law, unrealistic or not.

[stevenleser]

9. I think it is a disagreement as to what dating means. You are measuring it by their first sexual

encounter. Hunt and her parents (and likely the younger girl) would probably argue that they were "dating" long before they started having sex.

[Democracyinkind]

10. I'll second that.

This thread equivocates "relationship / dating" with "having sex".

[cali]

13. you didn't read the affadavit. According to HUNT they started dating in November

when Hunt was 18 and the younger girl was 14. they had sex sometime before Christmas.

[stevenleser]

15. I think it is still unclear. They were good friends a long time before that. Do you always draw such

severe lines between "dating" and platonic friendship? I've had several romantic relationships that began as good friendships and the line between the time the relationships were 'friends' and 'romantic' were very much blurred.

That is part of the problem here.

Legal questioning and as a result a legal affidavit tends to make things look black or white, on or off, yes or no.

It's likely these girls were flirting with and interested in each other for half a year or more before 'dating'.

[cali]

17. could you post a link to something (other than her parents or her)

confirming they were friends a long time before that?

[dkf]

63. Aren't they a little far in age to have been friends for that long?

Unless they were family friends I don't see that happening. Maybe if they had siblings in each others age group or lived on the same street.

[loyalsister]

110. The 18 yr. old might have been her babysitter

I'm not trying to be a smart ass. 14 yr old babysit 10 yr. olds all the time. It just provides some context for the age difference.

[dkf]

111. Yikes. That would be the worst possibility.

[loyalsister]

112. No doubt

I think it's one of the very real possible situations that makes statutory rape a legitimate charge.

[magical thyme]

80. where do you get that from?

"It's likely these girls were flirting with and interested in each other for half a year or more before 'dating'."

According to Hunt's mother's facebook page, they became good friends at the end of summer/ start of the school year in fall 2012, shortly after her daughter turned 18. According to the girls themselves, they started dating in November and had their first sexual encounter around Christmas, 2012.

[AtheistCrusader]

113. Then the oft repeated 'they were peers in high school' line goes out the window.

Because in order to consider the relationship prior to Kaitlyn turning 18, one has to consider the relationship before the victim entered high school at all.

Edit: meaning all that stuff about them sharing a place on the varsity basketball team, and advanced placement classes, goes out the window too.

[shawn703]

114. To be fair

My daughter made the varsity cheerleading squad as a freshman (and it sounds like the younger girl in this story did as well), and she attended camp and met the other older girls on the squad during the summer, well before school started.

That said, even though these two girls likely knew each other prior to Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the younger girl told police the relationship didn't begin until November and sexual encounters didn't begin until nearly the end of 2012.

[AtheistCrusader]

115. Fair enough.

I withdraw that comment then. My school had nothing like that, but each school is different, and different schools place different emphasis on sports and such. I do not know that what you describe didn't happen here. It may well have.

Thank you for pointing that out.

Difficult to examine this issue with an eye outside my own experiences. I would never have guessed that happens, because it didn't happen for me/my school.

[stevenleser]

128. I would think the opposite is true. If they were friends for a long time they are definitely peers

[davidn3600]

18. Depends on what one considers the start of a relationship

In any case, it's kind of irrelevant since the law doesn't care when the relationship started. And the fact remains that they were both within the same peer group. In fact they both played on the same basketball team. It was a relationship between a senior and a freshman. According to other students, there are many such relationships at that school (and probably every school in America).

[Ms. Toad]

70. The affidavit does not identify when Hunt said they started dating

It identifies what the police understood Hunt said about when the sexual relationship started (the last paragraph ONLY is what they understood Hunt to have said - the rest is what the police understood the other girl to have said). (And there is a distinction between a direct statement and a report by someone else of what they have heard - I have been involved in enough police interviews and reviewing subsequent affidavits to know that there are often differences.)

So - is your statement (about what the affidavit says) a lie because you messed up a few details? I am assuming you did not create this OP to intentionally mislead people, but merely accidentally misstated what the affidavit says because you have strong feelings about this matter - as I think it is safe to assume Kaitlyn's parents have.

You are talking about statements made by parents who were not involved first hand in the relationship - so they don't know directly when the friendship started, moved to dating, or became sexual. They are trying to generate support for their daughter because, frankly, when the law is unfair sometimes public support creates justice when the law does not - and there is a pretty short window in which to generate that support. Whenever anyone is stating someone else's story it is very easy for mistakes to be introduced. I suspect you have been in family situations where family members describing the same series of events fall all over each other correcting minor details that they each recall differently. Those kind of minor variations in details don't make the stories lies - which has the flavor of an intent to mislead (which you certainly pick up on in your OP).

Further, if you watched the family statements from early on, you must be aware that as they learned of errors in how the story is told (their own or those introduced by repetition or a real life version of "Telephone&quot , they have done their best to correct them. Both the mother and the uncle (that I am aware of) have issued statements trying to clarify incorrect statements (regardless of their source). And - many of the stories linked to as being evidence of their manipulative intent are not sites they have direct control over.

[LisaL]

90. It doesn't matter when they started dating. Dating is not illegal if there is no sex involved.

So WTF does it matter when they started dating? And parents of the 14 year old didn't turn 18 year old into the police as soon as she turned 18. She turned 18 in August. Police were contacted in February.

[Ms. Toad]

93. That is not the issue in this particular subthread. n/t

[roughrider101]

106. actually....you messed up the details.

It identifies what the police understood Hunt said about when the sexual relationship started

So - is your statement (about what the affidavit says) a lie because you messed up a few details?

actually...you're the one who messed up.

It stated, clearly and I quote:
"They started dating in November 2012 and began a sexual relationship before Christmas 2012"

Have you even thought this through? Ms. Hunt's 18th birthday was 14 August 2012.
For it to be true it would mean that they started dating when the younger one was still in middle school.

except it also states: "They met at Sebastian High School due to them both being students there"

Let me ask you a simple question....how did they start dating before they met?


Jeeze, c'mon people think.
You're just being so reactionary you insist on making it fit, even though it doesnt.

[Ms. Toad]

109. No. You are misreading it.

The affiant is the detective.
The big black blobs are the redacted younger woman's name.
The sentences you are quoting police are the detective's recitation of what he understood the younger woman to have said not what Hunt said.

And, in case you just jumped in midstream and didn't take the time to read the entire subthread, I was expressly responding to someone who insisted that the affidavit said that Hunt said they started dating in November. It does not say that.

Only the last paragraph of the affidavit is the summary of what the detective understood Hunt to have said.

The word dating does not appear in that paragraph
The words "met at Sebastian High School due to them both being students there" does not appear in the last paragraph.

As to how they could start dating before they met - it is fairly typical for high school programs to include summer activities (band, cheerleading, varsity sports, to name a few common ones). Kaitlyn was involved in cheerleading and varsity sports, and the younger woman was at least involved in varsity sports. So it would have been pretty easy for them to meet during these activities when the younger woman was a (rising) 9th and the older woman was a (rising) 12th grader - and while Hunt was still 17 (up until about 2 weeks before school started).

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. She is also basing this on a comment Kaitlyn's father made. Her mother has it all laid

out on facebook.

The OP is a lie, basically

[magical thyme]

16. yup. I've read the same in a couple places now.

I think the felony charges and potential punishment are too harsh, but there is no doubt this was statuatory rape.

[Nye Bevan]

19. Definitely statutory rape. A 14-year old cannot meaningfully "consent" to sex with an adult.

However, I think there are enough mitigating circumstances that prison time is not warranted. This is not like the Roman Polanski case. My feeling is that an appropriate sentence would be probation, with a stipulation of no sex with children.

[cali]

20. I disagree that a 14 year old cannot meaningfully consent to sex with an 18 year old

in their peer group and I think it should be a misdemeanor.

[Nye Bevan]

26. Well, at least we both agree that it is a crime, and that is the main thing (nt)

[backscatter712]

65. "Statutory rape" is the most ridiculous fucking frame for this "crime".

Did anyone get violently assaulted? Was anything non-consensual? Sure, you'll say "She's too young to give consent." But she gave consent anyways even if the law says she can't. I drank beer underage even though I couldn't "consent" to imbibing alcohol.

It's consensual for the younger girl in that she agreed and participated in the act, whether the law allows her to or not. This ain't rape.

Is it concerning? Sure. Maybe if the parents got together with their children and talked about age-appropriate dating & sex, or maybe if one or the other or both were grounded for two weeks, that would be an appropriate and proportional response.

But we have a pair of insane fundie parents, and an authoritarian fuckwad DA who took this relationship, called it "rape", and is trying to ruin a decent young woman's entire life with a felony conviction. The prison-industrial complex needs fresh meat!

Don't tell me it's "statutory rape." Where's the force and coercion?

[magical thyme]

69. statuatory rape is all about age of consent. it has nothing to do with force.

The age of consent in Florida (and many states) is 16. Sex with somebody under that age is illegal because society has decided that is too young an age to fully understand the consequences of their actions.

However much you may disagree, most parents and adults agree and therefore it is the law. Break that law and face consequences. There are allowances made when both parties are underage, but not when one is legally an adult.

Furthermore, in Florida the failure to report knowledge of any sex abuse of a child, include this, is potentially a class 3 felony. The victim's parents would potentially have been in serious legal trouble had they not reported it. They learned about it from a school official, who also was legally required to report it, so it was going to get reported.

[Nye Bevan]

75. Saying "she wasn't violently asssulted" or "where's the force and coercion"

to excuse an adult having sex with a child is kind of creepy. It's very reminiscent of what the defenders of Roman Polanski argued.

Just because an adult can sweet-talk an 8 year old or an 11 year old or a 14 year old into having sex does not mean that it is right or that it should be legal.

[dsc]

22. this is the parents of the other girl

this isn't, as you falsely claim, Kaitlyn.

[LisaL]

30. WTF are you talking about?

[dsc]

31. the affadavit is what the parents of the other girl told police

it is not, as cali is suggesting, what Katelyn said. In short, it is a one sided story plain and simple. The police merely were stenographers here.

[cali]

37. no it's not. I suggest you learn to grasp basic information.

[dsc]

39. it most certainly is

I read it. there is one part where they interview the younger girl but never, as in not once, does it quote Katelyn as you have said it did. The majority of it is their being stenographers as to what the younger girl's parents said.

[cali]

42. your reading and comprehension skills are seriously, er, limited.

read the last paragraph of the affidavit. It's a freaking interview with Kaitlyn. There is NOTHING specified from the parents of the younger girl. There is a taped phone call between the younger girl and Kaitlyn and there is the statement of the younger girl.

pathetic.

you are entitled to your own opinion NOT YOUR OWN FACTS

[dsc]

46. the fact is there is not one quote from Kaitlyn

there is a summary, provided by the police of what she said according to him. we have no questions, no answers, and even he says the statement was elicited by questioning, which presumes questions. This is the same thing as Jonathan Karl's emails and are about as reputable.

[cali]

78. bwahahahaha. what a heaping pile of stinking dog shit.

[abelenkpe]

33. From the OP

"Hunt's parents claim..."

Can't find this false claim you commenting on.

[dsc]

34. ok once again very very slowly

cali claims that the affadavit quotes Katelyn Hunt later in the thread. It doesn't. It is an affadavit from the parents of the other girl. It offers no proof whatsoever that Katelyn's parents lied.

[cali]

38. It sure does, genius. fuck. read. the. affadavit.

[dsc]

40. I did and no it doesnt

[cali]

43. Pathetic. making shit up is not too swift. to put it kindly.

[dsc]

44. NOw I will very slowly go paragraph by paragraph through the affadavit.

The first sentence, alone as a paragraph, states that they interviewed the victim, who they don't name,

the second and third paragraphs state what she said (I guarantee in front of her parents). Never, as in not once, do they speak to Katelyn, something you said they did. It no more shows the parents lied than the parents statement shows the victim lied. NOw the word you are looking for is sorry I was such an ass.

[cali]

47. omfg. you are wrong wrong wrong wrong and here you go. I expect you to admit you were wrong now

"During the interview, Kaitlyn stated that her sexual relationship with x began after Christmas of 2012. Kaitlyn confirmed that she and x did go into the bathroom at school and she did put her finger inside x's vagina. Kaitlyn also confirmed that she put her finger inside x's vagina the time x ran away from home and they met up. Your affiant asked Kaitlyn if she knew it was wrong to have sex with x due to x being 14 years old. Kaitlyn stated that she did not think about it because x acted older".

The above is a direct fucking quote from the affidavit. Last paragraph, 2nd page.

how fucking wrong can you possibly be? Not much more.

Admit you are flat out wrong.

[dsc]

49. where are the quote marks?

By that I mean, did she say the words my sexual relationship began after Christmas, btw you said Nov. Or did the police ask her when did you first have sex with and then she said after Christmas. Also the word dating, doesn't appear, and it should be noted her Katilyn's parents said they first started dating when she was 17 not that they first had sex when she was 17. You made the claim that the parents lied based on this affadavit but it doesn't say what you say it says. It just doesn't.

[dsc]

55. according to the affadavit

and that is if you believe the police accurately told us what ms hunt told him, the sex didn't start. the word dating doesn't appear anywhere in that affadavit. Dating and sex aren't the same thing. I have gone on many dates where we didn't have sex. I have also had sex without dating.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. Post an inaccurate pathetic OP, get a pathetic response.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreeKate/members/

and again:

As the summer of 2012 came to an end, the future looked bright for 17-year-old Sebastian River High School senior Kaitlyn Hunt. Voted the student with "Most School Spirit" by her peers, Kaitlyn was an active cheerleader, a basketball player, a camp counselor and cheering coach, and a medical assistant training to join the nursing program at Valencia College after graduation. She looked forward to a career helping others and a memorable final year of high school.

At the beginning of the school year, Kaitlyn made friends with a 14-year-old freshmen girl in Sebastian River High's IB program who played varsity sports and took classes with upper classmen. The girls were peers in the same social circle, and as happens every day in high schools across America, their friendship eventually developed into more. In September, shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the girls began dating, and they eventually expressed their affection for one another in intimate ways.

When the girls' basketball coach found out that two of her players were dating, she kicked Kaitlyn off the team and informed her girlfriend's parents that their daughter was in a same-sex relationship. The parents then conspired with police to entrap Kaitlyn and press charges.


-snip

[cali]

60. gad. so many people here with reading comprehension problems

She made friends with the 14 year old at the beginning of the school year. that strongly suggests that is when they met. She was already 18.

[LostOne4Ever]

72. Thats what the FB page says!

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreeKate/[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]In September, shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the girls began dating, and they eventually expressed their affection for one another in intimate ways.
Where is the lie?

They met in September. They met shortly after the girls 18'th birthday. From the first time I saw this story here on DU I went to their facebook page and they stated this. The only place I have seen it said she was 17 were the news stories that can't seem to get their facts straight.

Here is the first version of the story I read. The story is wrong but it links back to their facebook page which again says clearly she was 18 when they met.

http://www.examiner.com/article/florida-teen-fights-expulsion-and-criminal-charges-for-same-sex-relationship

[AtheistCrusader]

116. Here's one place where they lied.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/kaitlyn-hunt
That OP-ED is written by the father of Kate.

"The nightmare began in February when the cops came to arrest my daughter, who had just turned 18, and took her away without telling us what was happening."

"Just turned" does not equal 6 months.

"This relationship occurred when they were both minors, and my daughter's girlfriend's parents waited until she turned 18 to arrest her."

That's a lie. She turned 18 6 months prior to the arrest. 4 months prior to the alleged sexual contact.
Poisoning the well of public discourse. Lying to paint the victims parents as homophobes, when that remains unproven.

There is your lie. From the father, to the press and the world directly.

[ScreamingMeemie]

83. Do you get it that that is exactly what it says on the facebook page? Gad, yourself.

Jeepers... Reading comprehension my a$$... That doesn't appear to be my problem.

[AtheistCrusader]

117. The facebook page info may have been updated, but that is neither here nor there.

The parents LIED in other public media venues.

http://www.xojane.com/issues/kaitlyn-hunt
That OP-ED is written by the father of Kate.

"The nightmare began in February when the cops came to arrest my daughter, who had just turned 18, and took her away without telling us what was happening."

"Just turned" does not equal 6 months.

"This relationship occurred when they were both minors, and my daughter's girlfriend's parents waited until she turned 18 to arrest her."

That's a lie. She turned 18 6 months prior to the arrest. 4 months prior to the alleged sexual contact.
Poisoning the well of public discourse. Lying to paint the victims parents as homophobes, when that remains unproven.

There is your lie. From the father, to the press and the world directly.

[magical thyme]

68. check page 2 of the affidavit.

The detective interviewed Kaitlyn. The summary of the interview with Kaitlyn is the last paragraph of page 2.

According to that paragraph, Kaitlyn admits to a sexual encounter after Christmas 2012, with a description that essentially matches the victim. She also admits to a sexual encounter when the victim ran away and they "met up." And when asked if she understood it was wrong to have sex with a 14 year old, Kaitlyn stated she didn't think about it because the victim acted older.

The affidavit also gives Kaitlyn's DOB of 8/24/94, which makes her over 18 years old at the time of the sexual encounters she admits to.

It also shows that she was well past 18 when the parents reported her to the police, which makes the claim that they waited until she was 18 to report her untrue.

The fact is that under Florida law, the parents were required to report sexual abuse. Had they failed to report it, they could potentially be charged with a 3rd degree felony. Here is the appropriate statute:

"In 2012, House Bill 1355 was passed into law and shall be referred to as "Protection of 
Vulnerable Persons" Ch. 2012‐155 of the Laws of Florida....  The bill also 
requires any person to report known or reasonably suspected sexual abuse of a child by 
any person.  The bill requires the central abuse hotline to accept any call reporting child 
abuse, abandonment, or neglect by someone other than a caregiver and to forward the 
concern to the appropriate sheriff’s office for further investigation.   The bill also states 
that  the knowledge and willful failure of a person, who is required to report known or 
suspected child abuse, abandonment, or neglect is elevated from a first degree 
misdemeanor to a third degree felony."

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/abuse/publications/mandatedreporters.pdf

[lunamagica]

41. From the affidavit:

"Kaitlyn stated that her sexual relationship with---- began after Christmas 2012"

[dsc]

45. that isn't august last I checked

which is what cali said it said

[cali]

48. Cali said nothing about August except that that is when Kaitlyn Hunt was born. duh.

you need some serious help with basic reading comprehension.

[ScreamingMeemie]

85. cali's kind of a mess on this story...

[AnotherMcIntosh]

104. Actually, the words in the last paragraph begin with "During the interview, Kaitlyn stated ..."

The words in the paragraph also include "Kaitlyn confirmed," "Kaitlyn also confirmed," and "Kaitlyn stated."

[Celldweller]

23. well...

As a parent...

If my 14 year old daughter is involved SEXUALLY with ANYONE I'm going to have a problem with that. I don't care if it's male, female, whatever... I believe that homosexuality is genetic and as such... gay people are to be universally accepted.

BUT... a 14 or 15 year old kid is just that, a kid. 16 is a different story DEPENDING on the maturity level and communication ability of the kid... but 14 is a non starter.

[randome]

24. One of my daughters decided she was bisexual at 14.

No sex, no boyfriends or girlfriends. I knew she was just trying on the label for size (she spends too much time on Tumblr!) but she also knew I would support her 100%.

At the same time, I made clear at other opportunities that there was nothing she could say to me that she couldn't unsay at some other time.

She no longer trumpets being bisexual and if she decides to explore that aspect of sexuality at some other time, she has my support, but given her personality, I doubt she will be that eager to experiment. If I'm wrong, there's nothing wrong with that.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Celldweller]

25. good for you, good dad/mom :) nt

[randome]

27. Thanks! Same to you!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[ScreamingMeemie]

50. Kaitlyn's mother didn't lie. The ages have always been posted in the "about" section of the facebook

page.

snip-

As the summer of 2012 came to an end, the future looked bright for 17-year-old Sebastian River High School senior Kaitlyn Hunt. Voted the student with "Most School Spirit" by her peers, Kaitlyn was an active cheerleader, a basketball player, a camp counselor and cheering coach, and a medical assistant training to join the nursing program at Valencia College after graduation. She looked forward to a career helping others and a memorable final year of high school.

At the beginning of the school year, Kaitlyn made friends with a 14-year-old freshmen girl in Sebastian River High's IB program who played varsity sports and took classes with upper classmen. The girls were peers in the same social circle, and as happens every day in high schools across America, their friendship eventually developed into more. In September, shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the girls began dating, and they eventually expressed their affection for one another in intimate ways.

When the girls' basketball coach found out that two of her players were dating, she kicked Kaitlyn off the team and informed her girlfriend's parents that their daughter was in a same-sex relationship. The parents then conspired with police to entrap Kaitlyn and press charges.

-snip


https://www.facebook.com/groups/FreeKate/members/

and, it bums me out that that affidavit is posted everywhere--for the sake of both girls. And, also, WTF were they thinking in not redacting Kaitlyn's home address before releasing it?

[cali]

52. At the beginning of the school year Kaitlyn was 18. she turned 18 on August 14th.

[ScreamingMeemie]

54. Her mother didn't lie, cali. And she didn't say she was 17 at the beginning of the school year.

It's right there in black and white.

In September, shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday, the girls began dating, and they eventually expressed their affection for one another in intimate ways.

No lie there.

[cali]

58. her father certainly lied. Here:

The nightmare began in February when the cops came to arrest my daughter, who had just turned 18, and took her away without telling us what was happening.

No, she had not just turned 18. She turned 18 6 month before her arrest. that is a lie. unless you buy that 6 months after the fact is "shortly after Kaitlyn's 18th birthday".

This relationship occurred when they were both minors, and my daughter's girlfriend's parents waited until she turned 18 to arrest her.

No, this relationship did NOT occur when they were both minors. Kaitlyn's mom said Kaitlyn met the younger girl at the beginning of the school year. Kaitlyn was already 18. The younger girl was 14 and was 14 at the time of the sexual encounters. so it's all nonsense about the parents of the younger girl waiting until Kaitlyn was 18. It's a LIE. Kaitlyn was 18 for the entire time she knew the girl.

I don't want to see Kaitlyn Hunt prosecuted but her parents aren't doing her any favors.

[magical thyme]

64. agreed, exactly.

"I don't want to see Kaitlyn Hunt prosecuted but her parents aren't doing her any favors." Frankly I'm surprised that their lawyer is allowing this.

They also aren't helping when they claim her parents turned Kaitlyn in because they are homophobic.

The fact is that by Florida law, any person who suspects sexual abuse of a child is required to notify authorities, or face a 3rd degree felony charges. Per attached document:

"In 2012, House Bill 1355 was passed into law and shall be referred to as "Protection of 
Vulnerable Persons" Ch. 2012‐155 of the Laws of Florida....The bill also 
requires any person to report known or reasonably suspected sexual abuse of a child by 
any person.  The bill requires the central abuse hotline to accept any call reporting child 
abuse, abandonment, or neglect by someone other than a caregiver and to forward the 
concern to the appropriate sheriff’s office for further investigation.   The bill also states 
that  the knowledge and willful failure of a person, who is required to report known or 
suspected child abuse, abandonment, or neglect is elevated from a first degree 
misdemeanor to a third degree felony."

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/abuse/publications/mandatedreporters.pdf

[backscatter712]

57. We get it. You're cheerleading the ruining of a life.

Whee! I don't agree with the age difference, so let's charge her with a felony and force her on the sex-offender registry!

[cali]

59. bzzzt. wrongo, hon.

I've said repeatedly I don't think she should be prosecuted. duh. over and over in several threads.

I don't think an 18 year old and a 14 year old in the same peer group, having sex, should be a criminal matter and certainly not a felony- at the most a misdemeanor with no record, no jail time, and no probation.

got it?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

61. She chose to ruin her own life.

She didn't have to have sex with a 14 year old.

I'm not convinced that a criminal charge is appropriate, but I'm also not convinced it isn't - 14 is young enough for the state to take having sex with someone seriously, and 18 is old enough to know better.

[backscatter712]

67. Oh give me a fucking break. You'd really stand by while a life is ruined?

You make me fucking sick!

[magical thyme]

62. Calling Ms. Toad! Calling Ms. Toad!

Your services are required here.

[Bluenorthwest]

71. The problem for you straights is that you are highly selective in your fury

I'd like to see even one post from anyone furious at Jerry Seinfeld at age 39 and network TV star dating a 17 year old high school student. I must have missed his indictment. Eventually Jerry dumped her and married a woman just back from her honeymoon with her first husband.
Is it the heterosexual nature or his wealth that makes that fine and dandy?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=2899209

[LisaL]

73. I am sorry, but do you not realize that 17 is above the age of consent, while 14 is below?

However morally repulsive you might find the idea of 39 year old dating 17 year old, it would be legal.
So WTF do you propose be done about a legal relationship?

[Ms. Toad]

74. You might want to spend some time in the statutes...

Do you know all of the states they may have been in when they had sex? There are a number of states in which a sexual relationship between a 17 year old and a 39 year old is prohibited by statute.

[LisaL]

76. Excuse me. 39 year old dating 17 year old would be legal in all states (as long as it didn't involve

sex). And in New York, age of consent is 17. So it would be legal relationship either way.

[Ms. Toad]

79. So would a 17 year old dating a 14 year old

As long as it didn't involve sex.

And, in California - where Jerry and his girlfriend were occasionally - the age of consent is 18.

[LisaL]

81. Kaitlyn Hunt was 18 when they started dating, and 18 when they started having sex, per police

affidavit.
She turned 18 in August. They started dating in November. So it was not legal to begin with for them to have sex.

[Ms. Toad]

88. Give me a break.

You expressly compared the two relationships and said the difference was that one was legal and one was not:

I am sorry, but do you not realize that 17 is above the age of consent, while 14 is below?

However morally repulsive you might find the idea of 39 year old dating 17 year old, it would be legal.
So WTF do you propose be done about a legal relationship?

When I pointed out you were wrong, you suggested you weren't talking about a sexual relationship so that the second scenario would be legal. All I did was to point out that under the same circumstances (a non-sexual relationship) so is a 17 year old dating a 14 year old.

[LisaL]

89. How exactly could you point out I was wrong, considering I was not wrong to begin with?

In NY, age of consent is 17. Thus, a 17 year old can have a relationship with an adult of any age.

[Ms. Toad]

91. As I pointed out -

The also traveled to California, where the age of consent is 18.

And it is pretty clear from your initial comment, and your follow-on restriction) that you were under the mistaken impression that a 17 year old could consent to sexual activity with anyone s/he felt like.

[LisaL]

95. No, I am not under "mistaken impression."

It didn't apply to the case we were discussing since Jerry Seinfield met this girl in NY.
I haven't seen anything about the two traveling to Ca when the girl was still 17. She graduated from school then moved to Ca some time later. And by the way that was over 20 years ago, but who is counting? Apparently I should be upset over something that took place 20 years ago, even if it was not illegal. It's what I should be furious about for no apparent reason.

[Ms. Toad]

96. I don't believe you are being honest

about what you knew when you hastily fired off the response,

I am sorry, but do you not realize that 17 is above the age of consent, while 14 is below?

However morally repulsive you might find the idea of 39 year old dating 17 year old, it would be legal.
So WTF do you propose be done about a legal relationship?

[AtheistCrusader]

121. Upthread it is alleged they dated.

Where is it alleged that Seinfeld had sex with her?

[AtheistCrusader]

120. But that didn't happen.

It was an 18 year old having sex with a 14 year old. The 'dating' issue isn't under litigation here. The charges are sexual battery. Because they had sex.

In some states, if the dating issue ascribed to Jerry Seinfeld included sex, that would be a crime. Dating != Sex. It might also include sex but that is not apparently known in that case. In THIS case, it is known and acknowledged by Kate.

[Ms. Toad]

122. I suggest you go back and read the thread.

The person I was responding to was comparing Seinfeld to this situation. There is no point in comparing them if the two situations are not similar relationships - i.e. if we're not talking about a sexual dating situation with Seinfeld.

[AtheistCrusader]

124. IN post 74 you appear to assume the relationship was sexual.

BlueNorthwest did not post a relationship of a sexual nature.

Granted, LisaL's objection ALSO seems to have assumed sex was at issue. But that wasn't in BlueNorthwest's post. (And LisaL's objection is accurate at least in the state of New York.)

[Ms. Toad]

125. There is really no point in raising

a non-sexual relationship as a comparison to this case, when asking where the fury is - regardless of the word chosen to describe it. It was clear to me - and I believe to anyone fairly reading the thread - that dating (as used to refer to Seinfeld's relationship) implied a sexual relationship.

LisaL's objection was not limited to the state of New York. New York was not identified as the state where their relationship occurred (although a little research does show that it is likely that most of it took place there - and that same research shows they traveled to California where her objection is not accurate).

[AtheistCrusader]

127. I think you raise valid criticism of BlueNorthwest's post.

A sexual relationship is assumed. I don't see any solid allegations that this occurred.

Whereas in this case, we have admissions by both parties that it did occur. So the comparison is invalid, unless there are solid allegations or admissions in the case of Seinfeld.

Just as New York was not identified as the state where it occurred, neither is a sexual relationship identified. Both items were assumed by different posters.


AS to my personal bias (I do have some) I have seen situations where a 30 year old dated a 17 year old, which I disapproved of personally. I don't tend to think of that as playing fair. But without sexual contact in a state where that is illegal, I of course do nothing more than have an opinion of it being unfair/wrong. And my opinion is worth pretty much nothing.

[AtheistCrusader]

119. Not in florida.

A 17 year old can only consent to a sub-24 year old per that state's laws.

Florida has a higher age of sexual consent than most states. In my state, that would be legal regardless. But not in Florida.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

100. I don't give a damn about 17 year olds having sex, with who they choose, even if it's illegal.

I do give a damn about 14 year olds having sex, whether or not it's legal.

That doesn't necessarily mean that anyone who has sex with a 14 year old should be sent to prison - if two children experiment together at that age, it's silly and dangerous and has the potential to ruin their lives, but it shouldn't be a criminal matter.

But 18 is old enough to know better, and while I'm not convinced that it should result in a felony conviction, I'm also not convinced that it shouldn't.

I *do* think that there's significant hypocrisy on both sides here - there appears to be evidence that she's being more harshly treated than some people who have had heterosexual sex with minors, and she's *certainly* being defended by people who would be condemning her if she were straight.

[AtheistCrusader]

118. Did they have sex?

If so, he should be prosecuted.
Title XLVI, Chapter 794 of the Florida Code

If she's under 18 (between 17-18) and he was older than 24, he's fucked if they had sex.
I never heard of that issue at the time. It is wrong, per the law, as well, if they did more than 'date'.

[Orrex]

123. In Seinfeld's defense

Shoshana did market a successful line of handbags.

[alp227]

82. When I first read the story I was angered at the justice system.

Now that I learned that some of the details weren't true, I am even angrier at Kaitlyn's parents not just for misrepresenting details but for failing to instill a sense of obedience in their daughter. And when I searched for Kaitlyn's name in high school sports websites like maxpreps.com there's nothing. So either her parents are lying about her being on HS basketball team or the sites scrubbed everything related to her. at this point i say i cant decide who's worse: Kaitlyn's parents or prosecutors.

[NaturalHigh]

103. Yes, the parents lied.

I don't think that Kaitlyn Hunt should end up on the sex offender registry, but I do think she's guilty of statutory rape.

[H2O Man]

126. Recommended.

Good OP; curious discussion that follows.

It appears to me that emotions keep some of our friends here from processing what they are reading. Likewise, I think that parental instincts & emotions have led to the parents of the young lady saying some things that are inaccurate. If they were purposefully lying to begin with is, I think, another question. Parents lie to themselves unintentionally on a rather frequent basis, especially when their children are confronted with trouble.

However, because they continue to report inaccurate/wrong information, it seems evident that they are now purposefully lying. This may be for a combination of reasons: to gather support for their daughter, and to avoid admitting that previous statements were wrong.

[HooptieWagon]

130. Hunt's parents went to the media and court of public opinion.

Which might have worked, but they chose to lie. If you're courting public opinion, it doesn't help your cause by lying to the people you're trying to sway to your side.