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Sun May 26, 2013, 06:44 AM

Bridge collapse could cost Washington state millions, jobs

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/bridge-collapse-could-cost-washington-state-millions-jobs-6C10066338


A person looks from the south bank of the Skagit River across to the collapsed portion of the Interstate 5 bridge Friday, May 24, 2013, in Mount Vernon, Wash.

The collapse of a bridge on a major West Coast highway could cost the state of Washington at least $47 million in lost economic output, as well lost jobs and tax revenues similar to the impact of a flood five years ago that also shut down another section of the road, officials said Friday.

Brian Bonlender, Director of the State Department of Commerce said it would be difficult to pinpoint the exact economic impact because it depends on how long the road is out of service, how much traffic was disrupted and delayed by detour routes.

But, based on a flood in 2007 that washed out a section of Interstate 5 in Chehalis and closed Interstate-5 in both directions for four days, he was able to estimate economic losses from Thursday's Skagit River Bridge collapse.

"We’re still calculating, but certainly expect the impact of the Skagit River Bridge disruption to be similar," Bonlender said in comments e-mailed to NBC News.

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Reply Bridge collapse could cost Washington state millions, jobs (Original post)
xchrom May 2013 OP
liberal N proud May 2013 #1
Turbineguy May 2013 #2
dixiegrrrrl May 2013 #13
bluestate10 May 2013 #25
Berlum May 2013 #3
Travis_0004 May 2013 #5
Lars39 May 2013 #6
madokie May 2013 #7
Lars39 May 2013 #8
madokie May 2013 #9
Lars39 May 2013 #10
madokie May 2013 #11
Berlum May 2013 #14
Travis_0004 May 2013 #20
dkf May 2013 #16
SharonAnn May 2013 #21
bluestate10 May 2013 #26
Quantess May 2013 #4
lunatica May 2013 #12
MineralMan May 2013 #15
Heddi May 2013 #17
MineralMan May 2013 #18
countryjake May 2013 #19
Heddi May 2013 #22
freeplessinseattle May 2013 #28
Heddi May 2013 #23
Capt.Rocky300 May 2013 #27
FarCenter May 2013 #29
Heddi May 2013 #24

Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2013, 06:50 AM

1. Is this the only route?

No detour?

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Sun May 26, 2013, 07:17 AM

2. There's the older road a bit to the east,

and other small country roads. It will be quite a detour.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Sun May 26, 2013, 10:46 AM

13. DOT published detour maps

There is another road/bridge close by the collapsed one.
but going to hell of a bottleneck getting off and back on the interstate via the detour.

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Response to liberal N proud (Reply #1)

Sun May 26, 2013, 07:51 PM

25. No easy detours. Eastward detours are through elevated areas and on smaller roads. nt

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2013, 07:34 AM

3. The Republican "vision"

"...envision the moment in the State of the Union address when President Obama called for more bridge repair projects and John Boehner (and the Republican Cabal) failed to applaud..." - Gail Collins

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/25/opinion/collins-the-women-versus-the-ted.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130525

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Response to Berlum (Reply #3)

Sun May 26, 2013, 08:44 AM

5. This has nothing to do with not spending money on infastructure

 

The truck was too tall for the bridge, and it took out a beam. It did not collapse because of neglect on the federal level.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #5)

Sun May 26, 2013, 08:57 AM

6. Bridge was deemed obsolete and at least 10 years

past its repkacement date.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #6)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:03 AM

7. But that doesn't mean it was structurally unsound

It means it was past its due date is all.

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Response to madokie (Reply #7)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:08 AM

8. That means a safer design could have been in place

Without this event occuring at all.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #8)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:17 AM

9. Yes it does

problem is where do they start as many of our bridges fit that same criteria. Especially since the pukies in congress stopped the jobs bill that Obama put forth just for those kinds of things. No way this can be seen as a fault of the Obama administration, congress on the other hand, yes.
We had an old one lane bridge that carried a lot of traffic that was two maybe even three times past its due date before it was replaced. In fact it was only replaced years later after a section of it went down due to the same thing as this bridge, a too big load hitting it and causing it to fall. Luckily no one drove off it. It was a WPA project and it was finally replaced in the mid 80s. Traffic was rerouted for a good 8 or so years.

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Response to madokie (Reply #9)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:23 AM

10. We've been behind on replacing infrastrucure

for a long time. Even before shrub's reign. Also used to not see some of these wide loads on the road. Or as many of them. Something changed there too. Sorry for brevity, typing one hand on skinny keys

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #10)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:26 AM

11. All the more reason what the pukes did to Obama's plan is all the more egregious

If there was a need for make work this was a time for it.

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Response to Lars39 (Reply #6)

Sun May 26, 2013, 11:08 AM

14. Republicans rather give tax breaks to 1% than take care of America

Republican FAIL Freaks are 'leading' America and Americans off the freaking edge of the abyss.

Republicans are past their freaking replacement date.



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Response to Lars39 (Reply #6)

Sun May 26, 2013, 03:30 PM

20. It meant that if a new bridge was built, it would have been built differently

 

It doesn't mean we should tear it down, just for the sake or rebuilding another one.

There are lots of bridges that are older, and we should spend some money to fix, but we shouldn't replace every bridge that is old just because we have better designs today.

The bridge was tall enough that 99% of the traffic could pass through safely. The issue is with route planning for an over sized load. At this point its unclear who is to blame, probably a bit of blame on everybody. I'll even admit that a sign stating the height of the bridge would have been a good idea, but that responsibility falls on the state, not the federal government.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #5)

Sun May 26, 2013, 01:06 PM

16. We had several incidences where too tall trucks brought down overhead pedestrian walkways.

 

Those involved lack of permits or mistakes that if the law was followed could have been prevented.

How many times do we see height restrictions in any parking garage? These exist and they are knowable.

Where is the mapping database that encompasses all these items? Technology should be able to prevent this.

But in this case there was definitely some Government screwup. An approved permit shows someone didn't do their job to examine the route and the lack of height postings leave no way for the Truck driver to double check and use his own discretion.

Maybe the moral of the story is that government work should be double checked with some other resource as their methods aren't fool proof.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #5)

Sun May 26, 2013, 05:27 PM

21. It was lower than today's standard bridge height.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #5)

Sun May 26, 2013, 07:57 PM

26. A modern bridge doesn't get taken out by a fucking truck. The bridge was way out of date. nt

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2013, 07:45 AM

4. Actually this should CREATE construction jobs

if they get busy, like today, and rebuild it.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:31 AM

12. I remember the nightmare for commuters when part of the Bay Bridge fell during the

Loma Prieta earthquake.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2013, 12:56 PM

15. Well, there's an easy detour around the bridge.

Less than 5 miles, by my measurements, but short nevertheless. That will cause some delays, but the bridge for the detour is close to the I-5 bridge, and is four lanes. Traffic will be diverted just south of the bridge, onto College Way, rerouted to Riverside Dr., a four-lane highway, across the four-lane bridge, and then back to I-5 on George Hopper Rd., also a 4-lane arterial. It's not a heavy urban area. I'd estimate about a half-hour delay in total, once the detour route is established.

It's not that big a deal, really.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)

Sun May 26, 2013, 01:09 PM

17. nononono. This is a major pain in the ass

I take it you're not familiar with Seattle-area Traffic...there is no "half hour" delay. The bridge that fell is part of the route between Seattle and Bellingham/Vancouver, and is always ALWAYS busy. This re-route is going to add much more than a half-hour, especially since the road being diverted to is fewer lanes than the I-5 Bridge was.

http://www.nwcn.com/home/related/Bridge-collapse-paralyzes-I-5-traffic-208771631.html

Drivers are facing two, even three-hour delays because of bridge detours. Some companies are offering travelers an alternative to driving.

Here is the detour map. Note that there are 2 detours each for SOuthbound and Northbound. That's because the route you're incorrectly stating will be a half-hour delay or so won't be. It will be much more and a very long backup in traffic. That's why there's the one you think will be half hour, and another one way far out to make up for the traffic mess that is going to come about because of this bridge being out

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Construction/PugetSound/detourmap.htm#NB


Please don't be so glib about the devastating impact this bridge collapse has on Western Washington. Those delays don't just affect people joy riding and sunday driving. This affects ambulances going to local hospitals. This is a major concern for EMS in the area...how to get to/from Bellingham during emergencies and to the hospitals in a timely manner.

And on edit: I re-read your highly insensitive post again. "Not a major urban area". Please. Just stop talking because you have no idea what you're talking about. You're not from Seattle and you have no idea about what is and isn't a "major urban area". This is more than an inconvenience, as I posted above. TWO, THREE, OR FOUR HOUR DELAYS EACH WAY. Yeah, not an urban area. Just an inconvenience. Not a big deal.

Please. Stop pontificating (very wrongly, might I add) about something that you obviously know NOTHING about. Your condescending attitude towards this is really offensive for those that will now have to leave for work, what, 3 hours early? Oh no big deal if you work 12 hour nights as a nurse, or EMT, or paramedic. 12 hours at work, plus 3 hours getting there and 3 hours getting home...hey, who doesn't like working 18 hours straight? Don't worry, though, the Ever-knowing Mineral Man, who knows nothing of this area, says it's NO BIG DEAL. Says it's a thirty-minute delay. Says you don't live in a Major Urban Area. So no sweat, man

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Response to Heddi (Reply #17)

Sun May 26, 2013, 01:47 PM

18. In the first place, I've driven that route many times.

In fact, I even traveled it a number of times before there was an I-5, on old Hwy 99. In the second place, the traffic levels will decrease, simply because of the delays. Third, the current detours have not been in place long, and the delays will decrease with familiarity.

You're right. There are two detour routes, both southbound and northbound. That will also decrease the delays, although one of the detours is much longer than the other.

The shortest detour is on four-lane arterial streets, and the detour bridge is two-lanes in each direction. Traffic signals will be re-programmed to handle the change in traffic. No doubt, this will all create some confusion and delays, but those will moderate, once this whole thing has been in place for a week or two.

Actually, I do live in a major urban area. I live in St. Paul, MN. You may remember we had a major Interstate highway bridge collapse, too, right in the heart of the city. It wasn't too long before traffic found alternative routes and actually avoided the detours. That won't really be possible on this section of I-5, which is not in the heart of a major urban area. It's a route between major urban areas. So, all of the traffic will be forced to use those detours. During the construction season here in Minnesota, traffic is detoured frequently, as they close major Interstate highways for days and weeks to make repair. People grumble about it, but business continues. There are delays, and people plan for them. The same will happen after this incident.

At peak hours, the detour will be longer than a half an hour, but shouldn't be more than that in off-peak hours. Many will reschedule their travel to avoid peak hours, which will also moderate the effects.

Despite your orders, I will not shut up. I will post as I wish. You do not know me. You do not know where I have been or what routes I have driven. You do not know my experience with detours on Interstate highways. This bridge collapse will cause delays. All such disruptions cause delays. It will not, however, destroy the economy in the area. It will merely alter how people use that stretch of Interstate highway. People will adapt to the changes necessary, and life will continue, with some additional hassles.



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Response to MineralMan (Reply #18)

Sun May 26, 2013, 03:28 PM

19. In a rural county, the traffic which normally zips thru here, unnoticed, is a concern...

Bridge Collapse The cost of diversion
Increased traffic and time will impact local and regional economies

http://www.goskagit.com/all_access/the-cost-of-diversion/article_c827b1a7-e30f-52ae-ae95-4da94e7ce092.html

By Mark Stayton ~ Skagit Valley Herald ~ Sunday, May 26, 2013



This morning, it took my man, who does medical transports, almost one hour to travel a distance which usually takes him five minutes. Some of his clients are high risk, so, while you may think adapting to a mere inconvenience is all that the loss of this freeway bridge entails, most of that added congestion is mighty major to some folk around here.


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Response to countryjake (Reply #19)

Sun May 26, 2013, 06:43 PM

22. The fact that so many traumas go from Bellingham and Island Hospital

to Seattle, and they go via I-5, and those ambulances will now be delayed is just an "inconvenience" to the above poster.

I just moved from Seattle after living there 13+ years. I love when people who aren't from Seattle, or who have traveled there in a cursory manner look at, say, Seattle to Bellingham and say "oh, Mapquest says they're 90 miles apart. THat's an hour and a half drive'. Haw. Yeah. Right. Hour and a half drive on Tuesday at 2am IF you're going 90. It took me an hour and a half to get from West Seattle to fucking SHORELINE on a regular basis....People have no idea how the traffic is there, how the roads are there. Coworkers that lived in Everett and worked downtown would often 2 hours to get to work in the afternoon and just as much to get home in the morning and that's REGULAR traffic. It's going to be a fucking bear now. I guess they can leave for work 3 hours early???

I used to work at the trauma center in Seattle. We got lots of transfers and dispatches from parts north. I can't imagine the time it will take now to get these critically ill and possibly fatally injured folks to Seattle.

But, don't forget, it's just an "inconvenience"

And then the fact that this is a holiday weekend, the start of summer...oh boy. Getting back to the States through Peace Arch on a Sunday or holiday Monday is a "pack a lunch and take a nap" affair anyways...last time we came home on a Sunday (in November, mind you), it was 2.5 hours to get through. Now it's a holiday, 3 day weekend, start of summer? Might as well buy some property in Surrey and just live there because that traffic is *never* going to move. Think getting on a ferry for a weekend in the San Juans was in your future? Leave a day early and come back a day late. God, I can't even imagine what a parking lot turned into a parking lot is going to look like

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Response to Heddi (Reply #22)

Sun May 26, 2013, 08:38 PM

28. My family is in Bellingham, & time would sure be of the essence to me

especially in an emergency.

Thank you Heddi, I hear ya' loud and clear!! I don't understand the glib insensitivity either. Really shameful and uncalled for.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #18)

Sun May 26, 2013, 06:56 PM

23. Traffic levels will NOT decrease

People still have to go to work and to school and to do the things they always do. Truck traffic to and from Seattle and Tacoma to and from Vancouver will not stop. Summertime traffic to and from Vancouver will not stop.

Perhaps since you're familiar with I-5 back when it was a dirt road traveled by horse and carriage, you're not familiar with the current state of I-5 and traffic in Western Washington and how absolutely HORRIBLE it is, day or night, weekend or weekday, and how this "inconvenience," as you so glibly put it, is only going to make what is already a parking lot even more of a parking lot.

Perhaps you're not familiar with the fact that the hospitals in Bellingham, Island County, Mt Vernon, Arlington, Mill Creek, etc, transfer a very large number of patients, very sick and critically ill patients, to the larger, more well equipped hospitals in Seattle. And perhaps you're not aware that while the map may show a distance of, say, 45 miles, the time distance is greater than 45 minutes. A distance of 45 miles can often be a drive of an hour and a half or two, even for an ambulance with full sirens going. So adding to that travel time increased delays will be detrimental to many people for many reasons.

I'm really super glad that your wonderful community was able to overcome an 'inconvenience' of a bridge collapse. I know that Washingtonians will, too, but it will be more than an "inconvenience," and it will be more devastating than you refuse to acknowledge for some reason. Small communities that rely on summertime traffic will be impacted, because many people who normally would have made a trip north (or south) won't, or will take an alternative trip than they normally do because they don't want to deal with the traffic and the hassle. Economy won't come to a standstill, but the small, independent shops and tourist-based businesses that rely on summer visitors will.

Perhaps you should forward them your address so that you can properly tell them how they're not being economically impacted, and can impart some of your timeless wisdom on those dumb country folks who cannot "adapt." You can delight them with your tales of your "experience with detours on Interstate highways"

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)

Sun May 26, 2013, 08:21 PM

27. I'm afraid it is a very big deal for those of us who live here.......

The Mt.Vernon area has had a huge population increase in the past 10 years without a commensurate improvement of the roads. The roads are already inadequate to handle normal, daily traffic without experiencing heavy congestion. It has been complicated by the additions of Costco, Home Depot and other major shopping areas along that route. The intersection where College Way goes under I-5 to gain access to the Southbound freeway onramp is a nightmare due to not enough lanes, multiple signals and just too may cars trying to get to Lowe's or the new Super Walmart. And, Riverside Drive is no highway. True, it is 4 lanes but it is a surface street with businesses, restaurants and retailers on both sides and this additional volume of traffic will keep locals away from those enterprises. As much as we may want to patronize our favorite places, few people have the time to sit in traffic for a long time trying to get there and then on to their next destination. And then factor in the inconsiderate drivers who are unwilling to give someone a break coming out of one of these establishments' parking lots. With all due respect MineralMan, it is a very big deal for everyone and especially those of us who live and work in the area.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #15)

Sun May 26, 2013, 09:56 PM

29. A 4-lane interstate is pretty much by definition rural.

 

Urban ones have 6 to 14 lanes.

Miles driven per capita is down about 10% since 2007.

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Response to xchrom (Original post)

Sun May 26, 2013, 07:02 PM

24. I'm friends with many EMT's and Paramedics in Western Washington

that routinely run Tacoma up to Bellingham and points in between and west and east...

I just moved from Seattle to the East Coast after living in Seattle proper for 13 years. I worked as an RN in a busy downtown hospital.

Here are some facebook postings from some of my EMT/Paramedic friends from today:

"2 Hours to go 5 miles on a transport? fml"
"Awesome time to be on shift, it's a holiday weekend, bellingham is unaccessable, reefer's legal, folklife festival and monsanto protest rally in town and its a full moon. We shall see..."
"no thing sweeter 'n sitting with critical, bagging for an hr on I5 cant move trafic sux. pls dont die, **hospital name** 's close we just gotta moooov!"

super.

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