A poll for you: I am a Medea Benjamin supporter and I . . .

[patrice]

8 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Actively oppose uncontrolled US assault weapons world-trade
	5 (63%)
	Do not oppose uncontrolled US assault weapons world-trade
	2 (25%)
	the obligatory Other and explanation Reply below
	1 (13%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Enrique]

1. ok, we get it, she interrupted Obama

get over it.

[patrice]

2. Your reply suggests that you do not oppose uncontrolled US assault-weapons world-trade.

[FarPoint]

55. Oh for Chrissake.....

another screaming flamebait post about Medea...........how many more must we endure?

[grahamhgreen]

76. Until we change the dynamic.

[madokie]

3. Badly too

I seen it. If it would have been bush or the dick she'd been carted off in cuffs rather than hearing a few nice words by the President.Guantanamo is not the fault of Obama. rather its being still there is the fault of the reptillicons, err republicons congress critters. Amazing how many amongst us are so ready to lay the blame on this President as if he was a dictator or something

[lame54]

4. Who owns the force feeding?

[madokie]

5. The President doesn't make those decisions

if thats what you're alluding too.

[lame54]

6. He could certainly stop it

[madokie]

7. I doubt that its that easy

All things bad is not the fault of Obama and no amount of saying it is is going to change that.

[Fire Walk With Me]

64. Obama told the government of Egypt to respect the rights of peaceful protesters

a couple of years ago.

"I want to be very clear in calling upon the Egyptian authorities to refrain from any violence against peaceful protesters."

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2045085,00.html

Then Occupy came along within the US, and under Obama, 7400+ were arrested, many attacked by riot police, some bloodied, two peaceful Veterans very nearly killed in Oakland. I am among those who were assaulted by police for expressing our 1st Amendment rights.

Obama says NOTHING. Then we learn FBI, DHS, etc. helped banks and corporations spy upon us.

Silence is either consent or hiding the orders themselves.

[G_j]

84. yep

silence is consent, ..at best!

[patrice]

9. There are consequences for any such decision, the first one being

that some, at minimum, emotionally disturbed people will then commit suicide by starving themselves to death.

Since it is WRONG to jail them, it is also wrong to allow that confinement to cause them to commit suicide.

At least as long as they are alive, there is some hope of a resolution to these issues that does not add up to their suicides.

[lame54]

14. It's their choice...

They are not even convicted

They didn't legally lose their rights

They were taken from them

This is their only way to speak to the world

They must be silenced and in no way martyred

[patrice]

26. Doesn't a choice have to be free, otherwise it is coercion, a reaction to coercion . . .

Would they "choose" self-starvation if they weren't prisoners?

[lame54]

27. No...

They can go along with the routine of being locked up or they can CHOOSE to defy them in an attempt to draw attention to their plight

It takes a lot of courage to make that CHOICE

[sabrina 1]

54. What did they do wrong other than being Muslims who were kidnapped and sold

to the Bush/Cheney war criminal enterprise? Has anyone there been convicted of anything? I know even Guantanamo prosecutors walked away from this travesty refusing to go along with the scam.

'Some emotionally disturbed people'???? Is THAT how you see the victims of such horror, torture, years of being the victims of war crimes? There are people, human beings right now suffering horribly in OUR NAME, RIGHT NOW. I find it appalling that there is even one person in this so-called civilized country that is not up in arms, outraged, speaking out at least, against the horror that is going on in that sick, sick, evil place.

I wonder how emotionally 'strong' anyone here would be after the horrors these human beings have endured for nearly a decade now.

PROSECUTE THE WAR CRIMINALS. There is no other way for this country to regain any kind of moral authority.

[Skidmore]

30. So you want those prisoners to die of starvation?

Got it. You refuse to hold Congress accountable for its role in creating and maintaining this prison and chose to be complicit because you hate the President so much. That's my understanding of what you are saying.

[lame54]

33. Then you don't understand a whole lot...

Congress is dysfunctional and no hope lies with them but

Obama can step up and stop this

He just doesn't want a Bobby Sands on his hands

Another way to end this is to recognize what they are protesting against and come to a solution

Silencing them would be easier

[grahamhgreen]

77. The buck stops where?

[Warren Stupidity]

28. More than half of the disappeared have been cleared of all charges.

Yet they remain disappeared. Not because of those meanies in congress, but because the Obama administration has refused to release them. They remain, while cleared of all charges, imprisoned without access to lawyers, family, friends. They are there for the rest of their lives and this administration, confronted with the decision of many of them to make that life sentence short, has chosen to brutalize them with force feedings and solitary confinements and other physical and psychological abuse. Obama is doing this, not congress.

There is a very simple test. Imagine if Bush were president. Would you oppose these policies?

[madokie]

31. I'm not so sure its because of the meany Obama

give me some proof of that

[Warren Stupidity]

36. Do you think Congress is in charge of the prison?

The executive branch operates this prison. The decision to not repatriate those cleared of all charges was an executive decision. The decision to use brutal methods to suppress the hunger strike was an executive decision. Which part of the buck stoppage don't you understand?

[patrice]

34. Thank you for this clarification. & Just as the President SHOULD take the political hit on this, so

so should Medea Benjamin take the political hit amongst her supporters for whatever her position is on uncontrolled US assault weapons world-trade.

Her positive regard for Rand Paul buys her a fan-base. She either agrees with them about these arms trade issues or she doesn't.

It would help what she is saying about Guantanamo, immensely, if she held herself to the same standard in re assault weapons trade.

[Warren Stupidity]

49. your bullshit is unfettered. I suggest fettering it.

The fact that you are uttering a shameless false equivalency here is lost on nobody other than yourself. That and it is simply a non-sequitur as well. That would be a double down super scoop of bullshit. It reminds me of the Triceratops dung scene in Jurassic Park.

[Comrade Grumpy]

53. Please stop with this obsessive stupidity.

[grahamhgreen]

75. No, you don't get it. She (we) have the solution, he (you) are working on principles

that have been proven time and again to be a failure for all but war profiteers.

[99Forever]

8. Ever notice how much...

... personality cultists get their undies in a bunch when someone dares to question the actions of their idol as if their idol should have real principles and stand up for them?

[Bonobo]

10. But...

He CRIES with us.

[99Forever]

12. Of course he does...

... and it makes everything all better, no matter how dead wrong it is.

[patrice]

20. And striking out against THEM makes everyone feel better too whether it addresses what

needs to be changed or not.

[patrice]

17. And grandstanding doesn't have that same kind of appeal to the disempowered? What is MB's

position in re uncontrolled US assault weapons world-trade?

[patrice]

11. Personality cults abound on all sides. However, not all support is of that type; some support is

just under- or mis- informed.

[99Forever]

13. Most...

... is just plain WILLFULLY blind.

[Bobbie Jo]

15. Asinine post.

[99Forever]

16. Yes it was.

But even asinine OPs have a place here.

[Bobbie Jo]

21. Perhaps I wasn't clear

Your post was asinine.

[99Forever]

23. Perhaps I wasn't clear...

... I don't care what you think.

[Bobbie Jo]

25. Then say what you mean.

Your passive aggressive bullshit isn't the least bit clever.

[99Forever]

51. Passive aggressive bullshit?

Naw. Hero worship is for juveniles, not rational adults.

[Buzz Clik]

18. You mean like when somebody questions the self-defeating behavior of lunatics like Medea?

Like that?

Yeah, I see it every day at DU. It is hilarious.

[idwiyo]

58. More like implying that someone is mentally challenged and as such should be ignored. Just like YOU

did in your post.

Neither you or OP can present ONE shred of evidence that Medea Benjamin support for RP goes any further than a filibuster of the person who supports torture. Instead you resort to calling her "lunatic". Someone else called her "intellectually challenged".

Why is she a "lunatic"? Because she interrupted a President you happened to like? Did you call her lunatic when she was protesting against GWB? I do hope you are consistent in your behaviour.

While you are at it, how about you condemn President Obama for publicly praising Tom Coburn?
Or is it OK for Obama to voice his appreciation and support for a RW bigot but its not OK for Medea Benjamin to support a filibuster by libertarian arsehole?

[Buzz Clik]

59. Can I prove Media is legally insane? No. It was hyperbole.

But I despise Code Pink and always have. They do not represent me, and I cannot stand their attention craving tactics. They get no support from me. Zero.

Sending love notes to Rand Paul is not going to make any fans at DU. None. If you stand by that maniacal act on her part, then have it. I put you in the same boat.

She interrupted the President's speech precisely when he was about to support every point she was making. How fucking stupid is that? She looked like a complete ass -- and deservedly so.

Did I call her a lunatic for interrupting GWB? Maybe, I don't recall. I hate sophomoric pranks, and I never support speeches being interrupted by anyone for any reason. When Desiree Fairooz put her "bloody" hands in Condi Rice's face, I was infuriated.

I hate this shit with every fiber of my being. So, if you are challenging me on be consistent, you lose.

[idwiyo]

60. At least you claim to be consistent in your statements. I give you a point for that.

I didn't ask you to prove if Medea Benjamin was "lunatic". I said you resort to innuendo when nothing else works.

I made a statement that neither OP or you presented a shred of evidence that Code Pink/Medea Benjamin stands with RP on anything but that filibuster against a supporter of torture. That's irrelevant now, after you explained that you always despised Code Pink.

I would suggest you stop speaking for entire DU unless you were specifically asked to do so by entire DU. It makes you look very silly. Never mind being wrong, because you obviously managed to ignore every single post that supported Code Pink and Medea Benjamin.

As to "challenging you to be consistent" I have only your word for it so far. I'll give you another point for consistency if you show some evidence to support your claim.



P.S. I stand with Code Pink in regards to torture. And I believe that Condi Rice episode was a pure genius.

As to interrupting a speech, why the hell not? I heard enough bullshit over the last 10 years from both of your presidents and our prime-ministers. Lots of the same promises over and over again but when it comes to action suddenly they are totally powerless to do anything about the actual problem. They can start a military action, they can execute people without due process but they just can't get INNOCENT people out of jail. Screw their pretty speeches.

[Buzz Clik]

61. "you resort to innuendo when nothing else works." Oh, please.

Nothing else has to "work." I dislike her intensely. End of story. You feel differently. Good for you.

I made a statement that neither OP or you presented a shred of evidence that Code Pink/Medea Benjamin stands with RP on anything but that filibuster against a supporter of torture.

I don't play fetch. I never claimed one damned thing about her except her childish display was self defeating (because Obama agreed with her completely) and that she was insane. I backed off the latter, at least somewhat. I don't give a damn if she's a fire breathing socialist or a John Bircher -- I hate her tactics. Period.

As to interrupting a speech, why the hell not? I heard enough bullshit over the last 10 years from both of your presidents and our prime-ministers.

"Our presidents"? Oh. I see you're European. Piss off. Not interested. Goodbye. Ignore list. Go play with somebody who give a flying fuck what you think.

You want Medea? Take her. You want to meddle in US politics -- that's allowed here, but I won't be listening. Fix your own cesspool and then talk to me.

What really pisses me off is you wasted my fucking time.

[idwiyo]

63. Guess that's explains why you didn't notice how many people here disagree with you on this topic. :)

[woo me with science]

68. Hear, hear!

Now THAT needed to be said!

[idwiyo]

71. Thank you! I find it hilarious that this poster put me on Ignore because I am British. :)

I do wonder though if it is xenophobia or if it has something to do with me being a commie... Or maybe it has something to do with them realising how silly they look and not being able to take it?

[KoKo]

19. Yes...also sidetracking discussions...and the usual name calling of their fellow Dems. nt

[Bobbie Jo]

22. You mean like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022903467#post8

Passive aggressive nonsense.

[Zorra]

39. Sometimes I wonder if some folks are genetically disposed to needing a king, queen

emperor, Fuhrer, Shah, Pope, President, "Prophet", Grand Wazoo, whatever, to follow. Either that, or they don't have the confidence in their own ability to distinguish right from wrong, so they allow a leader to determine what is right or wrong for them, and subsequently blindly accept the judgments of the leader, no matter how nefarious the intentions of the leader, and no matter how awful and destructive the consequences of the leader's judgment and subsequent actions are.

They can seemingly rationalize and justify anything, as long as it is sanctioned under the "supreme authority" of their leader.

The phenomenon of authority idolatry is fascinating, but really scary, in that some people will trust a leader instead of themselves and their better judgment, and will literally follow their idolized leader to destruction, while committing and supporting all sorts of immoral, unethical acts of violence and destruction.

They will commit or condone all sorts of immoral unspeakably wicked acts of violence and destruction and believe that doing so is justifiable, as long as they are ordered or sanctioned by their idolized authority figure leader.

Human history is full of examples of people blindly and mindlessly following or supporting leaders who order or sanction destruction, torture and murder in the name of material gain. Crusades, Inquisitions, invasions, slaughtering indigenous persons across the planet, and of course the prime example would be the blind adoration and following of Hitler and other fascist leaders in Europe during the last century.

Seriously ~ How could so many people blindly and adoringly follow a fuckstick dirtbag idiot monster like Hitler? What were they thinking?

The problem was, they weren't thinking. They trusted their idolized supreme authority figure, Hitler in this case, to do their thinking for them. Which leads many of us to ask once again ~



Indeed. How can almost 60,000,000 Americans be that unforgivably stupid?

When Occupy was in the first stages of the revolution, there were some posters here at DU who were horrified that Occupy has no leader. It seemed to so go against their strongly and dearly held belief that a single individual authority, such as a king, was absolutely necessary in order for a group to make genuinely democratic decisions and take effective action. The very idea of collective leadership seemed to frighten them and make them irrationally angry. It seemed that they literally could not, and still cannot, comprehend how a group of like minded individuals can form a democratic collective and take effective action without a single individual leader to be subject to, to follow, and take orders from.

Yet Occupy very rapidly and successfully achieved our first goal of permanently raising awareness of economic injustice and inequality all over the planet.

Question everything; bow to no one.

[KoKo]

62. Interesting post Zorra.....and, thanks for taking the time to post it!

INDEED!


Indeed. How can almost 60,000,000 Americans be that unforgivably stupid?

[ZombieHorde]

24. What do you mean by "uncontrolled?" nt

[patrice]

29. Whatever allows those weapons to be used for terrorism, kidnapping, extortion & stuff like this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022902052

[ZombieHorde]

35. Free will? nt

[patrice]

38. . . . is not a zero-sum commodity. Not all uncontrolled acts are the product of being free. Many,

probably most, such acts are, in fact, a product of slavery/programming, often reactionary responses DEFINED by the behavior and attitudes of others, not independent.

All of us have strong inclinations to either lie or be mistaken about what freedom actually is. I make an effort to avoid that myself, but that NEVER obviates my responsibility to recognize the possibility that I could be either lying to myself or mistaken. And that is what I call on others to do too, instead of engaging in these god-like absolutist proclamations of THE TRUTH and punishing ALL others who see things differently.

That's why this cliquey stuff that goes on here with all of the insults is so evil. You can't figure out if you're lying to yourself or mistaken unless you are open to DIFFERENT others as a basis of comparison for why you behave/think/feel as you do, which then allows one to decide whether one is being valid or not and, then, to adapt/change if necessary. This is called learning and certain dimensions of the environment here at the DU are hostile to it.

[burnodo]

32. Third thread!!

or did I miss one?

[Bluenorthwest]

37. What Benjamin did was kick off some political theater, you yourself provide the second act.

People interrupted the President protesting DADT as well. And like clockwork the 'moderate centrists' came rushing forth to vent spleen about how awful it is to interrupt a speech compared to discharging people for existing. The calloused reactions of those who fixated on the interruption rather than on the reasons for the interruption are the reason such theatrics are needed in the first place. If those who are so steamed up about interrupting elected public servants were half as steamed about DADT or DOMA the interruptions would not have been necessary. Nor would the arrests of those demonstrating for repeal.
We got the repeal by refusing to play nice for those who wanted to delay justice for the sake of centrist bipartisan ideologies.
Yet another thread about delusions you have about Benjamin, without any quotes from her or cites to explain your frothy verbiage.
Those who do nothing accomplish nothing. Those who make noise often make great change. The tactic of interrupting elected officials in public is useful greatly because it upsets folks like yourself so much. The energy put forward in reaction to that tactic highlights the lack of reaction to the injustices being protested. They interrupted about DADT and the reactions against that tactic juxtapose with the inaction about the actual injustices from those who are so upset at activism. After the DADT events, many here were pissed off that 'those people' would not sit down and shut up, the reaction against made people look really heartless. People soon stopped opposing change, stopped demanding delay. We got repeal, even as the 'centrists' lectured us that we 'had to wait for the second term'. We did not have to wait. Nor did we have to sit down and shut up to please the folks who were fine to delay repeal.

[Marr]

40. I can't believe you're still pushing this nonsense.

I'm not a Medea Benjamin fan, for the record. I don't dislike her-- I'm just not very familiar with her.

But you seem to be unnaturally worked up about her interrupting the president, and desperately grasping for anything-- any angle, any subject-- with which to attack the woman. It does not counter the whole 'personality cult' image very well, I have to tell you.

[patrice]

41. Has MB expressed positive regard for the apostle of uncontrolled assault weapons markets, Rand Paul,

or not.

[patrice]

42. &, btw, She has a right to do that. I just want this contradiction in re drones out in the open.nt

[Marr]

43. So your contention is that finding common ground with a politician on one issue, in the hopes of

achieving a specific policy goal, means one is on the side of that politician in all things?

You're going to hate this Obama guy. Have you heard of him?

[Bluenorthwest]

45. Obama praises Tom Coburn in last month's time magazine, OK is lucky to have Coburn, he says.

"The people of Oklahoma are lucky to have someone like Tom representing them in Washington — someone who speaks his mind, sticks to his principles and is committed to the people he was elected to serve."

http://time100.time.com/2013/04/18/time-100/slide/tom-coburn/

[Marr]

46. That's a good citation.

I expect a person could find a dozen more without too much trouble.

Just off the top of my head, I know I've heard him praise Reagan on more than one occasion. I suppose that means he's for arming Iran and doing business with South American terrorists.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. In that piece, Obama speaks of legislation he made with Coburn, work they did together

But the OP sees that as very different from what anyone who is not Obama does. Obama can call a right wing bigot his good friend and political ally in Time magazine and that's fine. The OP can not even cite the 'support' she claims is being given to unrestricted gun sales by an anti gun activist. Not one quote nor citation in the many threads.

[patrice]

65. My precise reason for making this observation: She's doing exactly what they hate PO for. nt

[Marr]

66. Who is PO?

[patrice]

67. President Obama

[Marr]

69. Then I would say you're demonizing Benjamin for doing something you applaud Obama for.

And since one did it to *stop* an objectionable policy, while the other does it to *advance* objectionable policies, they aren't really even morally equal in that light.

[patrice]

70. Not so. I defend PO from demonizing by that same crowd. I do not "applaud" what I don't agree with,

because I have my doubts about how all of this is going to work out, especially with all of the mischaracterization of the administration's agenda which creates a powerful political self-fulfilling prophecy that the haters never admit to.

And, yes, indeed it DOES take TWO to tangle, i.e. both sides doing the SAME thing. I don't see a whole lot of Obama haters admitting that and even if they did, I''m guessing they'd most likely still claim to be justified by their being what they think is absolutely right, without considering the slightest possibility that they could be wrong, there are determinative things they don't know and, just as there is a claim that it's okay for MB, there might be authentic justifications for PO "dancing with the devil" too.

[quakerboy]

82. I daresay many of us

Would love to have a government that worked on each issue separately, rather than regarding each issue as a party line vote regardless of what America or their specific district might want, need, or care about.

If Coburn supports something thats worth doing, I would accept his vote on the issue. And I have no problem with Obama praising him for it. Same with Paul. Or Warren. Or Obama himself. I would not support Obama praising Coburn or any other for working on bills that are harmful to his state or to the nation. Again, same goes for every other politician.

They should all be supported when they make the right call, and called out when they make the wrong ones. Like supporting Drones, or wanting to do away with public education, or Social Security.

Mb Isnt an elected official, so that changes things a bit. She isn't responsible to anyone except her personal conscience, having taken no oath of office. Still, I think she should also receive positive reinforcement for stances she pushes that are correct, and not for things that she supports that are not.

So, in the mean time, its your assertion that she support unfettered worldwide gun distribution? Or are you just imputing that to gin up controversy, the same way that Issa is fond of making up crap about Bengazi to try and attack Obama?

[idwiyo]

72. Did you finally ask her of she supports RP's position on UN Assault Weapons ban?

All you have to do is email Code Pink and ask...

[patrice]

73. I may just do that & sketch my activist "resume" on this issue to boot, in order to let

them know I'm not just someone who is bitching because I got an opportunity to bitch. I have spent quite a bit of my time and not inconsiderable financial resources trying to get people to pay attention to nuclear and other armament issues, leading a few activist projects and just being an eager worker-bee otherwise.

But my basic point here is that her position, one way or another, relative to uncontrolled assault weapons world-trade is not required for RP to accrue at least some pretty positive effect simply from association with her name. Some of that just happens spontaneously, out of under- or mis- information, some of it happens because interested and informed operatives MAKE it happen.

[patrice]

80. AND, P.S. - That's the very same thing that this same group condemns in PO. nt

[Chan790]

44. Other: I am emphatically not a supporter of Medea Benjamin...

I think the very causes she purports to represent would be helped immensely if she just went away.

Don't go away mad, Medea...just STFU. I'm not really sure what you hope to achieve, but you're not really helping. You're like the screaming histrionic Ingrid Newkirk of the anti-war movement: all stunt and no effectiveness.

[LWolf]

48. Amazing how much more effective her voice is than yours. nt

[Chan790]

50. That's presumptuous.

Since you have no idea who I am or how effective of a voice I am.

(It's also incorrect. )

[LWolf]

52. Sure I do.

I've been following her for more than a decade, so I'm sure familiar with her voice.

I just read what you have to say, and it's not only ineffective, its counterproductive.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. Medea Benjamin on gun control and assault weapons.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/medea-benjamin/harry-reid-gun-control_b_2337796.html

When CODEPINK, MoveOn and representatives of other organizations marched into Senator Harry Reid's D.C. office on Tuesday, December 18, they wanted a simple answer to a simple question: Does the senator support a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity clips, such as the legislation proposed by Senator Dianne Feinstein and supported by President Obama and Vice President Biden? It would seem like a no-brainer for the Senate majority leader to fall in line with the leadership of his party in backing a modest bill that would ban the sale of weapons that are only good for mass murder. Unfortunately, Reid's senior policy advisor Kasey Gillette was unable to give an answer.

While there is a lot of talk in Democratic circles about Republicans standing in the way of sensible gun laws, a hidden secret is that the Democratic Senate leader from Nevada, who is key to getting gun control legislation passed in this country, has been as pro-gun as most Republicans.

With 20 children dead, President Obama insisting that preventing gun violence will be a second-term policy priority, and Harry Reid not facing re-election until 2016, perhaps the senator will now be willing to stand up to the NRA? The clock is ticking.

[MADem]

57. I am not a supporter of people who support Rand Paul. I can't imagine why anyone would do business

with that cretin with a squirrel on his head.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

74. Is she the character in the Tyler Perry movies?

[Zorra]

78. ...want wars for profit and the killing of innocent people with drones to end forever and

ever.

Amen.

[patrice]

79. me too!

[bravenak]

81. I love Obama.

I didn't realize he had magical powers though. I thought he ordered G town closed and republicans blocked the funding. Like usual. I refuse to blame him since I can totally see for my self that all the GOP cares about is stopping his agenda. Like closing Guantanamo. People should go yell at the mfers that are stopping him from closing it. It's not like if he did arbitrarily close it down he would have much support from all the backstabbers who are bitching right now.

[idwiyo]

83. If money is the ONLY obstacle, how about he tells us how much he needs and asks us to donate?

I am sure there are more than enough people who WILL donate whatever they could to make sure that abomination is finally closed and innocent people are released.