there were 38 fatal dog attacks in 2012 in the US

[magical thyme]

That's 38 fatalities in a population of ~330,000,000. That 1 fatality for every 8,684,210 people (or 0.01/100,000). The total dog population in the US, btw, for 2012 was estimated at 70-78,000,000. That's 1 fatality for every 1,842,105 dogs (or 0.05/100,000).

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-08-06/pet-ownership-down/56882786/1
http://www.americanhumane.org/assets/pdfs/pets-fact-sheet.pdf

To put this in perspective:

there were 506 murders in Chicago in 2012...with a population of 5.7M, that's 1 in every 5,347 or 18.7/100,000 people.

In LA, there were 300 murders as of 12/29/12, or 1/13,333.

Philly had 300+ murders in 2012. NYC had 414.

Yet none of these make the top 10 list of "America's 10 Deadliest Cities for 2012."

Flint, MI was #1, with 65.9/100,000.
Memphis, TN was #10 with 24.1/100,000.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/22686/america-s-10-deadliest-cities-2012



Of the dog attacks, more than half were by family pets and on their own property. Some parents left infants on the floor alone with dogs adopted only a short time earlier (as little as a week).

In numerous instances, children had wandered off onto other people's property, where the dogs were chained or confined.

In numerous instances, parents were charged with negligent homicide because they failed to watch their babies and toddlers.

Some fatal attacks were by dogs that were running loose and known in the neighborhood to be aggressive -- so why weren't laws enforced and those dogs rounded up and taken from their owners *before* the fatal attack?

http://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2012.php

[AndyA]

1. Obviously, America is better off with a kitteh in the house!

[Arugula Latte]

14. ...

[Drale]

2. THANK YOU! +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

People get so outraged with dog attacks but there are such a small number every year and the majority of them are caused by stupid people but no one gets that outraged when kids are killed on the streets of a city.

[Buzz Clik]

3. Your statistics are telling and provide perspective. Thanks! One question:

How many killings by dogs is too many?

[magical thyme]

10. obviously nobody wants to see any senseless deaths.

As I posted, the statistics provides some perspective. There are several people on this board who have called for bans on certain breeds or types, who have called for all kinds of regulations to prevent these needless deaths.

Their calls are based on ongoing media reports about these fatal attacks, without access to a lot of facts.

A couple things jump out on me based on the statistics and the reports that I linked to:

1. Going after 70+ million dogs because of 38 attacks doesn't make sense. More than 70 million dogs were *not* involved in fatal attacks or any attacks at all.

2. According to the link, pit bull types make up 5% of the dog population. That's 3,500,000 pit bulls. Making regulations around 3,500,000 dogs due to 23 involved in fatal attacks (60% of 38) doesn't make sense.

3. If the primary concern is to end senseless death, or at least reduce it as much as possible, there may be other kinds of death to focus on first. If you reduce 50% of fatal dog attacks, you will save 16 lives. If you reduce 10% of murders in Chicago alone, you will save 50 lives.

4. It supports the contention that media reports are biased in favor of rare incidents. Media are driving attention away from issues that cause many, many more senseless deaths than dog attacks.

5. The fatal dog attack numbers are low enough to allow all of us to take a look at them in a little detail and determine what can be done to eliminate them.

The breed/type bigots immediately jumped on the fact that 60% of the fatal attacks were by dogs of the pit bull type based on physical description. Certainly the dog bite website I linked to comes across as very biased against what is not really a breed, but a type.

But what jumped out at me was that in many instances, poor human judgement was the root cause and in many others enforcement of existing laws would have prevented them. Looking at them more closely, what I found was this:

* In 2 cases, the bites normally would not have caused fatalities. One woman was bitten on the ankle, but had serious health issues that put her at very high risk of stroke. The dog bite on her ankle was a contributing factor, but not a direct cause of her cerebral hemorrhage. In the other case, a bite on the hand was left untreated and the victim died of septicemia a few weeks later. The bite didn't directly cause her death; deliberate neglect of her wounds for weeks while the infection spread did (and resulted in charges against the family).

* ~23-24, nearly 2/3s, were victims of their own family's pets. Most of them claimed they never expected it. (I find that hard to believe; it is entirely possible that at least some of them know of an incident they didn't want to report. For example, when I was a child, my sister's loving, obedience class winning, family german shepherd jumped our father. What I found out much later in life was that my not so wonderful father was fighting with my sister at the time, and he decked her one her so hard he knocked her to the ground. Her dog was protecting her.)

* In one case, there was a family fight going on bad enough to call 911. The baby was left unattended on a bed in another room with the dog, while the police were interviewing the family members.

* 3 toddlers wandered off and were killed by dogs confined in neighbor's properties. A 4th was reported missing from her front yard by the mother who apparently didn't see her wander off.

* Charges were brought against family members for negligent homicide in 3 cases, and against dog owners for loose dogs in 3 cases. The majority were ruled accidental.

* 12 cases involved families with multiple dogs, often 3 or more. 2 of these cases involved single rescuers with, quite frankly, too many dogs living in their home. One had 5 large dogs; the other had 8 large and 2 small.

* 9 cases involved dogs running loose. 2 of those were large packs (5 and 9 dogs) of feral dogs being fed food scraps by a family member instead of animal control being called. 2 cases were irresponsible breeders with large numbers of dogs in kennels and a couple running loose. In several cases the dogs were said to be known to be aggressive and left running loose by people in the neighborhood, yet nobody had animal control come round them up.

What I see is this: enforcement of leash laws would have prevented 9 deaths. Common sense -- limiting the number of dogs you keep as pets to a number you can control by yourself, versus having packs of large dogs sharing space, would have another prevented 5 deaths. Not leaving small children and babies unattended (even on the floor!) with large dogs would have prevented multiple deaths. Not leaving toddlers roaming the neighborhood would have prevented 4 deaths (note, they could just as easily have been hit by a car, drowned in a neighbor's pool, lost in the woods, or picked up by a kidnapper). Seeking medical attention would have prevented one death.

And so on...

[adigal]

15. We can put every dog and puppy in America in the gas chamber

and then we won't have any dog killings!!! Yay!! Great solution!!

(very, extremely snarky)

[Buzz Clik]

16. I got the answer already.

But thanks.

I'm not a fan of dogs, but ... gads.

[TheCowsCameHome]

4. Pit Bulls won top honors again.

Nice doggy.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. Yes, I noticed that, also.

By compiling U.S. and Canadian press accounts between 1982 and 2011, Animal People, listed the following breeds and associated outcomes
for dog bites:
The combination of pit bulls, Rottweilers, their close mixes and
wolf hybrids:
• 77% of attacks that induce bodily harm
• 73% of attacks to children
• 81% of attack to adults
• 68% of attacks that result in fatalities
• 76% that result in maiming

http://www.americanhumane.org/assets/pdfs/pets-fact-sheet.pdf

From the same source:

Forbes (2012) reported on a list of eleven breeds that were riskier for home owners and renters, and may be associated with higher home owner’s insurance costs. In some cases, insurance companies will not insure when certain breeds are part of the family (especially true for the first four breeds on the list):
1. Pit Bulls & Staffordshire Terriers
2. Doberman Pinschers
3. Rottweilers
4. German Shepherds
5. Chows
6. Great Danes
7. Presa Canarios
8. Akitas
9. Alaskan Malamutes
10. Siberian Huskies
11. Wolf-hybrids

[magical thyme]

20. yet again, I would want to look at the root cause

as with the 38 fatalities. The vast majority of the fatalities were due to people not complying with existing laws, negligence, or just plain lacking common sense. And in the case of bites, how many were actual bites? How many were provoked versus unprovoked? How many involved dogs running loose? How many involved too many dogs/packs? How many involved neglected toddlers and small children? How many involved neglected dogs? How many were just plain freak accidents? And so on...

As a former professional horse trainer, one way we divide horses is into 2 subgroups called "more sensitive/reactive" and "less sensitive/reactive." There are intrinsic behaviors -- not necessarily even instincts, they can be purely reflexive -- that can lead to serious injuries. For example, if a bug bites a hard enough on a sensitive spot, the horse will swing at it with teeth, hoof or tail, and sometimes 2 or even try all 3.

If a human is in the wrong spot at the wrong time, they can be in the way and get seriously injured. I saw a 3rd generation, lifelong horsewoman after a horse she was tending too swung at a bug. The horse inadvertently knocked her out cold with his ~20 pound leg. She had a broken nose and 2 black eyes.

You get quicker reactions with less stimulus from your more sensitive/reactive horses.

Likewise, I've seen dogs suddenly swing and bite at something itching/tickling their flanks (a particularly sensitive spot in horses as well). I can well imagine a scenario where a large, snoozing dog feels a sudden itch on his flank, swings and bites at it...only a toddler is in the way and gets bitten instead.

[Arkansas Granny]

38. First of all, we are talking about dogs here, not horses.

I would also like to point out that there is a big difference in a reflexive snap at something annoying and a deliberate attack. The reference you provided gave info on bites, maiming and deaths.

The pitbull was among the small group of dog breeds that accounted for the majority of bites that resulted in bodily harm, fatalities and maiming.

[magical thyme]

39. I am aware that horses are not dogs. Sorry this is so apparently confusing for you.

As a horse trainer, I am also aware that there are reflexive and combined reflexive/instinctive behaviors that can cause serious injuries. I have survived intact, and trained horses from unbroke through FEI dressage, in part as a result of decades of close observation and analysis of behavior, both in horses and people interacting with them.

And my point is that as a dog owner, I've observed similar behaviors. I've also observed how some people's behaviors around both horses and dogs has caused minor annoyances to escalate into potential disasters. And based on my personal observation, both as a professional horse trainer and an amateur dog owner, I suspect a lot dog bites didn't necessarily start out as attacks.

My dogs and I have been subjected to numerous confrontations with charging, growling and threatening loose dogs. In spite of the hapless owners' inept responses (or lack of response) those didn't escalate into full out attacks largely due to my appropriate responses. Given how many owners I've seen not respond effectively to their dog's behavior, and how many non-dog people I've seen behave really stupidly around dogs, I believe that many bites and attacks would not happen if people weren't so clueless.

"The pitbull was among the small group of dog breeds that accounted for the majority of bites that resulted in bodily harm, fatalities and maiming."

And your point is? I already pointed out in the OP that the pitbull was involved in 60% of the fatal attacks in 2012. Exactly what are you adding here? Anything?

[Arkansas Granny]

41. I don't think I am the one who is confused and clueless.

[magical thyme]

42. I did not call you clueless. I will say there are none so blind as those who will not see...

and it is sad that you are so blinded by your hatred and you cannot see or comprehend what I have written.

Have a nice rest of your day. I'm off to work with my arabian mare.

[KittyWampus]

5. same argument people use to condone guns/assault weapons. They don't kill nearly as many as XYZ

[NightWatcher]

6. Roughly 300 die every year from falling in the shower/tub.

It's time to ban showers.

[DainBramaged]

9. ....

we're dealing with folks who hate dogs, period. No excuses, how many die from electric shocks? Falling off ladders? Infections?

[Floyd_Gondolli]

26. DU's dog hating fetish continues

From an anthropological standpoint it is very interesting, though disturbing. Rarely do you see so many people who have vicious hatred for a specific type of animal gather in one place.

[DainBramaged]

28. 31 people die eery day from gunshot wounds.....

who will stop the rain?

[Floyd_Gondolli]

30. Who will stop the rain...indeed

And rain kills an average of 9.5 people every year.

It's time to ban fucking rain people!

*stat is made up

[Eleanors38]

34. Ban Labs as weapons of mass destruction. Pheww!

[Orrex]

7. Zero kangaroo-induced deaths in the US in 2012, as far as I can tell.

That means we should all have kangaroos.

[HappyMe]

8. I think all the

damn dog war threads should be banished to the gungeon.

[sibelian]

11. Need a new sub-form. Call it the Kennel.

[HappyMe]

12. lol!

That's perfect.

[TheCowsCameHome]

29. Or how about the Bull Pen?

[magical thyme]

32. I believe that would be for gorings, not bites

Speaking of bull gorings, the summer after I moved to my little farm I unexpectedly found myself face to face with a neighbor's bull in my pasture. It had a ring in its nose and it snorted at me.

I backed away slowly and made a run for my barn. Found the horse hiding behind the barn with the goat under his belly. Managed to drag them both inside the barn and then made a run for my house.

My neighbor was in her front yard. I yelled there was a bull in my pasture, grab your gun. She yelled back, it's only a 22, call the cops and disappeared into her house.

I instead ran inside and grabbed my phone book. Proceeded to call everybody with the name C****ner in my town, hoping to find the right one. Left a lot of voice messages that if they were missing 2 cows and a bull, they were at the old Ford place.

I was still calling when a truck pulled into my drive and a quiet man got out. A couple minutes later, a 2nd man pulled up in another truck. One had a pail of grain and the other had a rope. I don't remember their names any more, but, "Uh, I'm Darryl and this is my other brother Darryl" pretty much fit the discussion.

They proceeded to provide me with 30 minutes of comic relief as they attempted to round up the cows and bull and lead them back through the woods to their farm.

[Pragdem]

45. The Bull Shit, maybe. Because that's all that emerges from a pit bull owner's fingertips. nt

[KurtNYC]

13. Why count only fatalities? 4.5 million reported bites on humans, 885,000 requiring medical attention

More than 33% of all homeowners insurance claims are for dog bites and attacks. Around 60% of victims are children.

There are also dog on dog attacks which are big problem for guide dogs and their owners. Here is an example:

Jemma Brown aged, 23, whose guide dog Gus has been attacked six times said:

“One of the worst attacks was outside a coffee shop on the high street in Southampton. This dog came charging towards us. It pinned Gus to the floor and the dog’s owners couldn’t get the dog to let go, so they started punching it in the head. But they caught Gus a few times too and he was left concussed. He couldn’t work for three weeks.”

“Gus sometimes thinks that every dog we pass is going to attack him. Other times he barks at other dogs out of fear. He could easily have been finished as a guide dog, which would have been devastating for me.”

http://www.guidedogs.org.uk/news/dog-attacks-on-guide-dogs-increase/#.UaYlnNhJTXQ

I love dogs but many who own dogs have no idea how to prevent attacks or otherwise train their dog. They love them which I understand but love is blinding, and so are some dog attacks.

[magical thyme]

18. are those bites in the UK, US or worldwide? Are they for a specific year or set of years?

Same with the insurance numbers. Do you have a link to source?

Because the guide dog link you provided is to a UK site.

I focused on fatalities based on a number of recent threads by the dog haters and, in part, due to easy availability of some statistics around them. The available data made a good starting point for analysis of the root cause, which is the only way to find effective solutions.

[KurtNYC]

21. 4.5 million for the USA in one year (2003) per the CDC

the overwhelming majority of attacks are by un-neutered male dogs. Reported dog bites are up 300% since 1990.

http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

I think people should have to pass a test and get a license to own their first dog. Among my concerns is that there is no insurance available at any price for three breeds of dogs. As this list expands it will become harder for all dog owners and dogs to find housing and social outlets (dog parks).

The owners in the example punched both dogs in the heads. This tells me they have no idea what to do in a dog attack -- you should grab your own dog by the back legs and pull it away from the other dog while the other owner does likewise. In a bite and hold situation you may have to kick the biting animal in the gut. A dog's skull is like a bowling ball but hit hard enough it can do irreparable damage to the dog's brain. Kicking the gut is brutal but it knocks the breath out of the dog for a while and that is far better than other options.

ETA: Insurance stats in this fresh story (which fails to focus on un-neutered male dogs which are responsible for over 90% of the attacks):
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/dogs-bite-insurance-industry-479-million/story?id=19274676#.UaYxqthJTXQ

[magical thyme]

27. thank you for bringing up the neutering issue

That is another obviously very important variable.

In my village, it costs more to license an intact dog than neutered, male or female. It's not enough more, imo, but at least it's a start.

I just remembered that one of the people killed was trying to break up a fight between her 8 large dogs. Well, if she'd had a reasonable number of dogs, well trained, any argument would have ended well before a fight. 8 dogs is a pack, and 8 dogs fighting is a brawl. Not saying she deserved to die, but certainly she brought it on herself.

My 2 dogs got overexcited when we were about to go out for a walk, and the younger one I think accidentally hurt the older guy while they were jumping around (he has bad hips) and their game immediately jumped to serious, still verbal, argument. One quick scold from me, and they both immediately backed down. I won't consider having more than 2. People need to recognize limits.

What you've written comes down to the same thing. The problem isn't the dogs; it's the people.

[edhopper]

19. Is that where you set the bar?

Fatalities?
There were 4.7 million dog bites last year. About 800,000 need medical care.

I am not making an argument about banning dogs or any breed. And there are laws and regulations in place for dogs.

But whatever comparison you are trying to make fails for me for your cherry picking the data.

[magical thyme]

22. No, that is where I started the discussion.

Did you read anything else posted here?

[edhopper]

24. I have been away fro a few weeks

I thought this was part of an ongoing about dogs/guns or banning pitbulls.


I never thought dog fatalities were a big problem, dog attacks might be.

[magical thyme]

40. and it was

but as I wrote in response to a similar question elsewhere, it was a good place to start an actual discussion based on a number of factors, include the nature of the information included in the last link in my OP.

Again, read through the entire thread...

[edhopper]

43. So this is about how

people get all in a tizzy about relatively small risks like dog fatalities and want to ban breeds while doing little for real dangers like unregulated firearms?

Can't disagree with you there.

[MNBrewer]

23. I've heard most murders are committed by someone known to the victim.

Clearly knowing people is more dangerous than dogs.

[Jake Izzy]

25. How about bites that send you to the hospital without killing you?

How many?

[magical thyme]

31. someone posted that data above

read through the thread; it's there.

What those large numbers don't tell you, though, are the circumstances behind the bites. The useful information is in the details. Were the bites provoked or unprovoked? Was the dog neutered? Was the dog protecting home or person? Was the dog roaming loose? Was a child not monitored? Etc.

And that is part of my point. There's lies, there's damn lies and there's statistics.

How you work to prevent a problem doesn't depend on the numbers, but the details behind them.

[Enrique]

33. a coworker was just talking about a pit bull attacking her dog

at a farmer's market. She said it literally scared the shit out of him. Literally.

[magical thyme]

36. my dogs and I have been attacked multiple times by labs

The next door neighbor's 2 labs on multiple walks, their chocolate in particular came over to my property and attacked me in my yard. My little dog ran her off.

And another female lab attacked us 4 times on walks. The 3rd time, the only reason we escaped was a nice man in a red truck happened upon the situation and lured the attacking dog to check out his truck, then continued driving along keeping his truck between us until my dogs and I could get away. Stupid owner was there cutting up trees with his back turned and headphones on, so he didn't see a thing or hear me screaming at the top of my lungs. The 4th time, he did witness. And he had the effing gall to blame my little yellow dog, who was leashed and under my control, but dared to growl when his dog came charging at us barking and growling. Never mind that his dog had taught us to fear her...

My larger dog also was attacked twice at the local dog park by a mixed breed. The dog jumped him from behind. I was proud of my boy...he drove the attacker off and then stuck his nose in the air, turned his back and walked away. The dog repeated the attack and my dog repeated his response. That dog's stupid, stupid owner stood there with a stupid grin and said "That's how dogs are. They're just being dogs." We left and stopped going back.

I'm surprised a dog was allowed to run loose at a farmer's market, or in any public place. I'm sure that was terrifying both your friend and her dog.

[Enrique]

44. a little girl had been holding the leash

a reason I don't like the defensiveness about pit bulls is that it at some point amounts to denial of the risks, which could lead to owner behavior we might be surprised by. "Pit bulls are no more dangerous than other dogs, so let's have our little girl hold our pit bull's leash."

[apples and oranges]

35. How many were mauled? How many people were attacked and permanently disfigured?

Is death the only benchmark worth considering? And which breed was responsible for most of the deaths?

[magical thyme]

37. did you read any of the rest of the thread?

You may want to start there. Most of your questions are answered, in some detail.

[randome]

46. "...so why weren't laws enforced..."

Absent having cops on every street corner in America, it's impossible to catch every stray dog. The days of dog catchers roaming the streets is long gone.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[magical thyme]

47. in the instances cited, various neighbors said the dogs had been seen loose

more than once. None of them said they called animal control even once, let alone repeatedly, to pick them up.

If I see a dog loose, if it's too aggressive for me to take to a shelter myself, I will call animal control. When my neighbor's dogs were coming to my property, I eventually took it to them and if it had continued to be an issue, I would have taken it to animal control. My last ditch response would have been to lure the dogs into my barn with meat, crate them up, remove their collars and drive them to the furthest no-kill shelter I could find (preferably out of state) and tell them I found the dog(s) roaming loose.

These days too many people don't even try to do the right thing. I know of one horse woman who complained repeatedly on a couple horse forums for years about a neighbor's aggressive, loose german shepherds that roam on her property. She even once found her 16 year old daughter cornered in their barn being threatened by the dogs.

She bitched continuously on the two forums and again and again was given the same advice. If the police or animal control won't do anything, arm yourself and your daughter with mace. There is also a saying in the horse world (and note this is from dog lovers) "shoot, shovel, shut up" if it gets bad enough, and more than one poster gave that response. But she felt "sorry" for the dogs. Well, we all felt sorry for the neglected dogs because we knew it was going to come to a bad end for them one way or another. The question was not would they end up dead, but who would get killed or injured *first.*

It wasn't until the pack cornered *her* that she finally took action and got the police involved. If people won't even take a single step to protect their own children, then you can't blame the police or animal control...