Feminist analysis of video game tropes booted off YouTube within hours (later restored)

[Ohio Joe]

Within hours of being uploaded to YouTube, a video analyzing the portrayal of women in video games was removed for an alleged “Terms of Service” violation.

Anita Sarkeesian, the feminist media critic behind the video, suspected the video was flagged by angry gamers.

“Looks like my harassers abused YouTube’s flag function to get my new Tropes vs Women video removed. Not the first time it’s happened,” her website Feminist Frequency tweeted. “We are looking into the issue and will update you all as soon as we know the full story and can get the video restored,” it added.

After appealing “the bogus terms of service violation takedown” the video was restored to YouTube.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/28/feminist-analysis-of-video-game-tropes-booted-off-youtube-within-hours/

I don't know how the youtube ToS take-downs happen but I expect it is something that happens automatically when there are a lot of complaints. I'm glad youtube restored it... The real problem here is the refusal of some gamers to grow up. I am not happy about it.

The video is at the link above or at Feminist Frequency here:

http://www.feministfrequency.com/

or you tube:

&feature=player_embedded

About 25 minutes long, it is worth the watch.

[Orrex]

1. Bookmarking for later.

It's an extremely rare YouTube video that's worth more than 118 seconds, but this sounds like it might be one of those exceptions.

[clyrc]

2. My daughter started watching this series last week

It's really, really good.

[Egalitarian Thug]

3. One of her 83,500+ subscribers for about 3 years now. K&R

[Ron Green]

4. As she acknowledges, violence is the play mechanism by which problems are solved.

I don't think she acknowledges that the target market is 15-year-old boys. It's these two factors that drive the representation of women in video games.

[Chathamization]

5. She does

but then moves on. Pity, an actual look at women and video games would have been interesting. Instead she’s using the $160k she raised for these to show that juvenile male fantasies are indeed juvenile male fantasies. Eh.

[loli phabay]

7. i think the point is that video games with violence and sex sells

Most of the best games are shoot them ups, ever since doom to gears of war we have traipsed across the universe shooting things whether we are on foot, in a fer de lance, or simply in a souped up trans am. Escapism is what games are about, the fantasy.

[geek tragedy]

8. Well, (1) the market is much bigger than 15 year old boys, so it very

well could be the case that we're dealing with grown men who think like 15-year old boys (see hidden comment in this thread for evidence); 2) if this is how we're raising 15-year old boys to think, let alone grown men, then there's still a problem

[Ron Green]

14. 15-year-old boys generally DO think like this, and that's not likely to change.

However, the literary conventions she describes are powerfully reinforced and continued through electronic gaming in a way that earlier, print-based media tended not to do. Outgrowing kids' books and comics was normal years ago, but as you point out the market is much larger than its adolescent target group, and archetypes carry comfortably forward into the 20s, 30s, 40s and even beyond of the almost 100% male user group.

[Occulus]

11. Which is, of course, bullshit.

Portal and Portal 2 completely refute that fond imagining.

Most gamers are over 30.

This woman knows nothing about the topic. She is full of shit.

Yes, I flagged the video in the OP as inappropriate, and I hope it gets pulled.

She deserves to be blocked from YouTube for good.

[alp227]

21. Are you serious?

Wow this is such a low level of depravity...i have few words. even gamers over 30 still think like bratty teenagers, it seems.

[el_bryanto]

35. Does anybody who posts something you disagree with deserve to be blocked from YouTube

for good? If so, it must be very comforting to know that your point of view is the only appropriate one.

If not, than why, in this case, are you so vehement that this point of view be expunged?

Bryant

[Whisp]

37. lol! Whatsamatta, somebody stole your sweet roll?

lordy lord some of the manboys are hilarious.

[Rex]

67. He took an arrow to the knee.

nt.

[Union Scribe]

166. Lol.

I don't always get stuff, but when I do I lol.

[Apophis]

73. Hahaha.

I love seeing Skyrim references here.

[Occulus]

87. No, she's just plain wrong.

And I'm not at all concerned about, nor do I pay attention to, immature little wannabe-lecturers who call me names.

You just proved I'm right.

But hey, thanks for kicking the thread! This woman's pig-ignorance needs more attention, and you helped raise it to the top of GD! You're just fucking awesome!

Thanks!

[Whisp]

90. o my.

things are not well in OcculusLand. Be careful not to trip over your engorged rage and hurt yourself.

[Occulus]

96. Rage? No. That's called "projection".

She's simply, and provably, wrong. Period. She's leaving out dozens of top-shelf examples of games that do not even include gender as a topic for debate.

Blockbuster hits, Whisp. Hits like Portal.

Learn the subject. It's clear both you and she do not have the first, faintest clue of what either of you are talking about.

But hey, thanks for kicking this thread again! I like to see people like this woman get exposed as the frauds they are, no matter their gender, so as many people as possible can prove them wrong!

You're a BIG help! Keep it up!

[Whisp]

97. all your baseless attacks are belong to you. n/t

[Occulus]

99. "Well done. Here are the test results: You are a horrible person.

I'm serious, that's what it says: "A horrible person." We weren't even testing for that. Don't let that horrible-person thing discourage you. It's just a data point. If it makes you feel any better, science has now validated your birth mother's decision to abandon you on a doorstep."

-GLaDOS

But seriously, thanks a third time for keeping this thread kicked to the top! It's great to know you think so highly of what I have to say that you keep making sure everyone else reads it, too. Gosh, you must think I have an important opinion!

I'm very flattered, Whisp. And I really appreciate that you'd take the time out of your busy day to make sure my words are promoted to the largest possible audience!

You. Are. AWESOME!

Thanks a million!

[Whisp]

103. It's a good thread.

you are welcome!

[Occulus]

105. Personal attacks make it a little worse, though.

Wouldn't you agree?

Maybe not. I'm just a "manboy", after all.

But hey! Lets keep keeping it kicked, since it's a good thread! I appreciate the help!

[LanternWaste]

116. I realize the convenience of holding others to a higher standard than to that we hold ourselves to.

"Personal attacks make it a little worse, though. Wouldn't you agree?"

I'd imagine saying things along the lines of "she's full of shit" "I would have blocked her too" would also fall well within those parameters, minus any less-than-clever rationalizations to the contrary. Bless your little heart.

However, I do realize the convenience of holding others to a higher standard than to that we hold ourselves to. If it's not human nature, we can certainly surmise it is manboy nature...

And "you're quite welcome" to any petulant thanks you may allow me also.

[Occulus]

118. Because the woman in the OP is participating in this thread and personally read and responded

Jesus Christ, I'm not that stupid.

And of course you apply your standard to the Bush family, too, just to be consistent. After all, calling them war criminals who deserve to be tried, convicted, and hanged by the neck until they are dead is kind of a personal attack, wouldn't you think?

Just like telling them they're full of shit, as we all agree they are, is a personal attack. Right?

Your argument is so easy to demolish I won't waste any further time on it. You have been schooled.

Enjoy your evening. Don't try this again. I'll be much less polite next time.

[Downtown Hound]

125. I agree with you about games

It's the strangest thing, but most people that bash video games as being juvenile teenage fantasy don't actually play them. Go figure. You are also correct that many adults play games and many games are in fact intellectual and artistic. Some of them even make poignant social commentary.

However, flagging her and trying to get her banned from youtube is going to far. If you have an issue with what she says, leave a comment or make a response video showing a different side to games. No need to silence her free speech because you disagree with what she says.

[Occulus]

127. I flagged her because she is disingenuous, dishonest, manipulative, and is using those things to

further her agenda. If she were honest, she would provide cogent, recent examples of games that are 'woman friendly', that do show women in a equal light, etc., & etc.

I have every right to silence manipulative liars. She's one of them, and I won't stand for it. Thus, I did what I could, in the manner YouTube allows. Sauce for the goose. If she doesn't like that, she's free to create her own website and post her videos there.

She chose to use YouTube, and therefore gets to abide by those terms of service. I use YouTube, too, and I am free to flag anything as inappropriate that I see as inappropriate. If she doesn't like the format (and, judging by the fact she's locked her comments, she doesn't particularly believe in free speech herself, if we're to apply your logic in a consistent manner), she can stop using YouTube.

In other words, "Tough titty," said the kitty, "but the milk's still good."

[Downtown Hound]

128. "I have every right to silence manipulative liars"

No, actually you don't, at least not by curtailing their right to speech. And calling her a manipulative liar is a little extreme. My personal opinion of her is that she's prissy and ignorant and has an axe to grind, but at the end of the day, that's not a sufficient reason to kick her off youtube. She has a right to express her opinion and you have a right to express yours. And given that youtube ultimately let her video back on, I'm guessing she didn't violate youtube's terms of service. You misused the alert system for something it wasn't intended to do.

If you don't like what she says, then you're free to make your own videos or create your own website. She doesn't have to stop using youtube just because you don't like her. And if you don't like that, well then, "Tough titty," said the kitty, "but the milk's still good."

[Occulus]

129. I am in no way curtailing her right to free speech

because YouTube is not the US government and is under no obligation, either expressed or implied, to guarantee such. Furthermore, I am not trying, nor am I able, to prevent her from starting her own site and hosting her videos there, where she herself will be free to prevent others from posting hateful, bigoted, manipulative, disingenuous, or misleading comments.

Just. Like. DU.

Given that, I won't bother addressing any of your other points, because they are based on a false premise. Good evening.

[Downtown Hound]

131. You tried to get her banned from youtube because you disagreed with her premise

and then got all holy and self-righteous about it, and now you say you're not trying to curtail her free speech? Um okay, whatever.


You are not helping yourself or gamers by acting like the bratty child you're being. If anything, you're reinforcing the idea that gamers are a bunch of immature child-men.

[opiate69]

133. Which part of YouTube being a ptivate entity, with

Community standards is confusing you? She doesn't have any right to free speech using YouTube's infrastructure if the other members of the YouTube community or the admins of YouTube feel her speech isn't in line with the community standards. She's free to spout whatever idiocy she pleases, on her own site. This isn't a difficult concept.

[Downtown Hound]

134. What part of youtube let her video back on because it didn't violate

their terms of service don't you understand?

Stop beating that dead horse. Neither you nor Occulus are the moderators of youtube, so you don't get to decide what their community standards are. As you have said, they are a private organization, and they ruled against those wanting her gone.

Too bad for you!

[opiate69]

136. unlike DU, YouTube doesn`t seem to have alert limits..

So, as a member of the community, Occulus appears to be free to make his case to the admins there as often as they let him. Perhaps they weren`t aware of just how dishonest and disungenuous she has been in past videos.

[Downtown Hound]

138. I never said he wasn't free to do it. Unlike him, I respect free speech

I just think it was bratty and immature, and I'm glad he was overruled. Notice I'm not trying to get him banned or face any kind of official punishment for expressing an opinion I don't agree with. All I did was disagree with him and tell him why. Both you and him should try that sometime.

A place like DU can have alert limits because it's a site for liberals. Youtube has people from every walk of life. If all it took was enough alerts to get a video removed, then both conservatives and liberals could be knocking each other's videos off that site left and right. That's probably why they don't have alert limits.

[Occulus]

141. That's really rather condescending and insulting

and you are making DU suck.

[Downtown Hound]

142. Have you actually read any of your own posts?

Are you actually calling me condescending and insulting? Excuse me, I need to go and laugh my ass off now.

Maybe you should try and get me banned. Isn't that what you do with people you disagree with?

[Occulus]

145. You are reading what you want to read and making freedom of speech into something it is not.

Civics class. I recommend it.

[Downtown Hound]

146. Teach me wise one. Fill me with your wisdom.

How is getting her banned because she expressed an opinion that pissed you off not silencing her free speech? While you're at it, maybe you should go out and get every right winger that supported the Iraq War on youtube banned. Or how about the people that think Obama was born in Kenya? You going to go after them too? After all the Iraq War was based on lies right? Therefore, anybody that supported it is a liar and disingenuous and manipulative, no?

So go gettim' tiger. If it's your mission in life to get everybody that has an opinion that you in all your brilliance deem wrongheaded, well, I'd say you have a lot of work to do.

Ah, screw that. Why try and ban war mongers and war crimes supporters when there's annoying feminist chicks ranting about games on youtube? You go dude. I take it all back. You are so right and I'm so wrong. I'm going to go on youtube right now, and get every person that annoys me banned, because I'm smarter than everybody and when I call them liars and manipulative, well, that automatically makes it so. And they deserve to be banned as a result.

Thanks Occulus, you have shown me the way. I don't need a civics class when I have you.

[Occulus]

152. Wow.

YouTube is the government.

I didn't know. Thanks for setting me straight.

[Downtown Hound]

155. That ranks as one of the lamest responses I've read during my nine years on DU

Congrats.

[Le Taz Hot]

160. Correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't these YOUR words?

"This woman's pig-ignorance needs more attention,. . ."

You want to run that "rather condescending and insulting" thing by me again?

[Occulus]

137. Flagging a comment as inappropriate for being manipulative and disingenuous, as well as dishonest,

is the same thing we do here every day on DU. We call it an "alert".

So tell me, is MIRT- how did you phrase it?- "a bunch of immature child-men"? They ban people from DU every day, often with fewer posts than the woman in the OP.

You make it sound as if I were the sole arbiter of YouTube bans. Please.

Try again.

[Downtown Hound]

139. DU is a site for liberals

It expressly states so when we joined. People get banned from here because they are either disruptive or they are not liberals. It's that simple.

Youtube makes no such claims. So trying to ban someone because of an opinion you don't agree with is attempted censorship on your part. It is simply your opinion that she is manipulative and disingenuous. That doesn't make it fact, and no amount of constantly repeating it from you is going to make it fact.

So sorry, try again.

[Occulus]

143. I didn't try to ban her because of her opinion, thanks

I flagged her video because of her content and methodology. My flag and comment will not be the sole reason her videos get removed, I promise you.

Opinion is fine. Lies are not. Manipulation is not. She is a manipulative liar. I flagged it.

It's that simple. Free speech does not enter into the question, from either a legal or a practical standpoint. That is you, trying to twist the concept of a guarantee of freedom of speech from government intrusion into what you would have us interpret it.

Your little dance is just as disgusting and contemptible as this woman's lying manipulations are, and for many of the same reasons. As peas in a pod, you and she are twisting the logic to your own ends.

Stop. Now. We all see through you.

[opiate69]

147. !

#standing%20ovation%20%20gif

[Downtown Hound]

149. Congratulations Occulus. You found yo'self a friend.

LOL.

[Downtown Hound]

148. Who is this all you're talking about?

Do you have a cadre of imaginary friends cheering you on?

[Downtown Hound]

150. Actually, you did try and ban her for her opinion

And you're too big of a coward to admit it. You say she is a liar and manipulative as if it's a foregone conclusion and IT'S NOT. I know that this comes as a big shock to you, but just because you think that she's one DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT SO.

If you were a real man, you'd make your case and either tell her or others why you think what you do. But you wouldn't just try and get her banned. Those are the actions of a coward.

[ananda]

151. Just from the way this thread is going ...

... it's clear she's not wrong!

The difference between fantasy and male rage against females can get completely obscured when a gamer comes here to rant.

[Occulus]

153. Except I'm not "ranting". I was very clear in my other posts on this thread

and stated why I thought as I did, with several examples, in detail. Examples from a title which she, herself, dismissed as anti-feminist when they were actually some of the best examples of strong female character in games.

I'm not the only one who dismissed her diatribe against Bioshock Infinite, either. All I could find were the refutations of her commentary on this title, and the only things I could find, even when I Googled her name, the title of the game, and her article's title itself. Her own article was nowhere to be found that
I could see.

Funny, that. It's almost as though she realized how wrong she was about it, and took it down.

Also interesting is how she doesn't mention, say, SMAC, and the fact that Lady Dierdre's Gaia's Stepdaughters faction was easily the most powerful faction in the game (and I almost always play as Lady Dierdre because of that). It's as though she doesn't want people to know about strong female characters and feminist influences that already existed, the Gaia faction in that game being only one of many. Also, the Lady's journal entries are a treat.

This author would have us believe that strong women don't regularly appear in video games, and that simply is not so. Demonstrably, provably, and easily.

[Katashi_itto]

178. Have to say after watching her video, I agree with you. Very one-sided presentation.

It's obvious she is promoting a slanted agenda.

[Jasana]

165. Yes I would bet most gamers are over 30

and some of them are woman like me. Her tropes are dead on. If you can't take the heat of that observation, get out of the video game.

Personally, I am sick to death of saving princesses or damsels in distress. I am sick to death of playing shooters where the only default option is male. Why should I pay my hard earned money for such crap? Don't do it anymore. If the female role models in the game are crap then I don't buy. If they don't want my money, fuck 'em.

Flagging that YouTube video was just well... words I can't say on DU without getting canned. What ever happened to free speech? Oh... let me guess, that only counts for your speech.

Asshats...

[Rex]

66. The target market is not 15 year old boys.

The target is all men and boys. This is no different than the decades old sales trick of putting a model in a bikini and have her stand next to a car. It gives the illusion to men and boys that somehow the car is like the woman and you must posses both.

Of course first off you have to buy the car.

[Occulus]

9. She is wrong in general and wrong in detail

She ignores, completely, those blockbuster hits that utilize no shooter-style violence or misogyny at all (Portal, Portal 2, Civ 5, GalCiv2, SimCity, Starcraft 2, etc., & etc., ad nauseum) to make her "point".

Fuck her, and fuck her fans. Period. She is just flat-out wrong.

Edit: I flagged the video in the OP as abusive: hateful or misleading content.

[SomethingFishy]

12. Not to mention The Sims, Braid, Scribblenauts

Diablo, Journey, and the multitude of puzzle/word/seek and find/match 3 games all over the place.

I didn't watch the video and I don't plan to. It's obvious that the creator just took what she saw as "bad" and used that to disparage the entire video game industry. Is there a market for misogynist violent games? Sure there is, 14 year old boys are a dime a dozen and they are probably drooling at the near release of GTA5. There are also markets for educational games and games for women.

You can complain about this with any form of entertainment. Music, movies, books, comics, TV, the violence and misogyny is everywhere. Singling out video games just makes it look like she has a specific ax to grind.

[Ohio Joe]

13. You should watch the video

"I didn't watch the video and I don't plan to. It's obvious that the creator just took what she saw as "bad" and used that to disparage the entire video game industry."

Not at all, she is doing this series of videos not to condemn the industry but rather to make it aware of it's potential. There is no attempt at censorship here... No calls to stop making any games... What there is, is a call for the industry to grow beyond it's infancy and start delivering games with adult stories for everyone.

Good thing she is being demonized by people who can't be bothered to actually listen to what she has to say.

[Occulus]

17. I watched her wrongness regarding Bioshock Infinite

and laughed, puked, and dismissed her, in that order.

"What there is, is a call for the industry to grow beyond it's infancy and start delivering games with adult stories for everyone."

Bioshock Infinite did that- it's quite possibly the most adult-oriented story I have ever seen and easily the best video game ever made- and she castigated that one. Thankfully, everything I saw in response was laughing at her rank incompetence and utter ignorance of the topic.

This woman doesn't speak truth. She has nothing useful to say and should be banned from YouTube. She intentionally misrepresents products, people, and positions (like the host and loudest speakers of HoF do with, well, every last thing) and she is always wrong in general and always wrong in detail.

It's not that I disagree with her. She is simply, and very obviously, wrong. Provably so.

This woman is a liar.

[Ohio Joe]

20. I'm not finding that...

I've not seen what she had to say about Bio Shock Infinite (I've also not gotten to play it yet) and a google/youtube search on that and her name did not bring it up, so I can't comment on what she said in it. Everything I've seen about the game does indeed show it to be a leap forward in story telling... It is great to see that but it does not change the fact that there are still a very large number of games that have not... Grown up.

[Sheldon Cooper]

25. Wow! You actually 'puked'?

You should consult a doctor.

[geek tragedy]

29. "Should be banned from YouTube." OFFS. nt

[Chathamization]

30. Seriously? Bioshock Infinite?

Is Transformers the most adult-oriented movie you’ve seen?

Earlier I criticized the video for saying games with garbage stories have garbage stories (and making $160k to do so…). But I suppose it needs to be repeated.

[Occulus]

92. Infinite raised the bar beyond anything I'd expected

It laughed at my highest expectations and proved that video games have matured to the point that the genre has earned its place alongside television, radio, and film. I've played probably thousands of games; I've been a gamer since the Atari 2600 was brand new.

I have never seen anything even close to the production values and attention to detail that is exhibited by Bioshock Infinite. There's a reason it's gotten the highest possible marks from almost every reviewer everywhere.It's a masterpiece of storytelling, visual design, art direction, pacing, and gameplay. People who think it's "just another shooter" didn't pay attention. I spent nearly fifty hours on Infinite, taking my own sweet time on it; I listened to every line of dialogue, played every in-game recording, and saw every point of interest down to the smallest detail, and as someone with a vast store of gaming experience (and that's the honest truth), I have to say I have never, not once ever, seen anything even close to Bioshock Infinite. It's not just in a class by itself; Infinite lives in a whole new galaxy that no other title in this genre of entertainment can even approach.

Elizabeth is and will for some time remain the strongest female video game character ever created. Lara Croft isn't fit to cook Betsy eggs. Bayonetta sobs in Elizabeth's presence. GLaDOS pays Elizabeth respect and doesn't try to kill her.

I used to think Portal was as close as I've ever seen to a perfect game, but Bioshock Infinite took that concept to a whole new level. It will be very, very hard to top this title.

[Chathamization]

100. Lara Croft? Bayonetta?

You know games have problems when the first female characters that come to mind are over-sexualized (I invite anyone to do a google image search on those names). Rosangela Blackwell is much more fleshed out and actually the main character of her series. As for Bioshock Infinite – another slaughter fest, but not even one with particularly compelling mechanics (or particularly challenging), with a melodramatic and silly plot that falls apart at a glance. Again, it’s like someone trying to defend cinema as art and using Transformers as their proof.

[Occulus]

104. The two I mentioned were female characters selected to BE female characters

specifically because they had sex appeal, an not much else. And while it's true that the Tomb Raider reboot made Lara more of a "real" person, and less of a sex object, the sex appeal (and the gratuitous cleavage shots early on in the game, ugh) built into the character is still far too over-the-top to even approach what Elizabeth was in Infinite.

If all you look at is the superficial qualities of Infinite, yes, you would come away with the impression you mentioned. It's like claiming that, from a technical standpoint, the Transformers movies were "just CG graphics with a plot tacked on as an afterthought"; as someone who actually paid attention to what was going on from a technical standpoint, the models used in those same films were stunningly complex. But again, you have to have an appreciation for a deeper level of technical achievement than the common moviegoer does.

I used those two examples very specifically, but you took from it the exact opposite point. To boil it down to stew we can chew, I was trying to say that Elizabeth is a far, far stronger female character, even as a "sidekick", than Bayonetta or Lara Croft were as main characters. That's important, from a gaming perspective and a feminist perspective, and this ignorant woman in the OP castigated the character instead.

As for the Blackwell series, it's like comparing your chosen Skyrim character to Gabriel Knight, or comparing a hidden object game to the Myst series. Not even close to being in the same class.

[Chathamization]

106. So you're saying

that this:

Elizabeth is and will for some time remain the strongest female video game character ever created

actually means she's a comparatively decent female character for the slaughter fest genre, particularly compared to the over-sexualized characters the genre is full of, even if she falls far short of female characters in other genres? That seems to, eh, reinforce some of the points in this video.

And I'll agree that Bioshock Infinite, like Transformers, is technically well done. But again, I wouldn't defend film by bringing up Transformers.

[Occulus]

108. SPOILERS! No, I'm saying she's a strong female character because she's a strong female character.

She very nearly lets Booker die at one point, remember. I didn't blame her; Booker behaved like a true and total shit about her desire to see Paris. By that point, she was out of her prison (albeit, not out of Columbia), and she was more than powerful enough in her own right to go world-jumping until she had found one to her liking.

The message there is, Elizabeth didn't really need Booker at all after he broke her out of her tower, and I think had she had just a bit more time before he arrived in Columbia, she would have gotten out entirely on her own and vanished without a trace.

It should be noted, too, that Elizabeth herself ends up having blood on her own hands- literally, despite the fact she never actually directly participates in any combat. Her murder of the leader of the Vox, while necessary (it was that, or let a child be killed), forced her to unwillingly cross a line she could not travel in the other direction. That was one of the more remarkable scenes in Infinite; you could actually see the horror in Elizabeth's eyes over what she'd done. I actually felt sorry for the character, and after having played so very many games, that's a hard thing to evoke in me personally, and stands as a testament to just how good this title really is.

I'm not 'moved' by video games. This game did move me, in several places, that being but one of them.

By contrast, her treatment of another child (or was it the same one?) in the cellar under the bar, the one where she sang a verse from "In the Sweet By and By", which by the way the voice actress and actor for Elizabeth and Booker themselves performed, was a deeply touching moment that showed what kind of woman Elizabeth really was, and in fact informs her later lifesaving/murderous (depending on your perspective) actions in Finkton.

Elizabeth was the strongest female video game character ever made in many ways. None of the others before her even come close.

And what's with your Transformers fetish? Technically, yes, they're very good, but a bit thin (to understate it) on plot and based on a child's cartoon to boot. Why are you comparing it to a video game fantasy based on possibilities dependent upon the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics? It's not even close to an equal comparison...

[Chathamization]

124. Wat.

It's not based on the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum physics at all, it's based on a cartoonish misunderstanding of the multi-worlds interpretation. What happened in Bioshock Infinite can't happen in the multi-worlds interpretation (or any other quantum theory). It's somewhat telling that this is being held up as a sign of the games depth; and I suppose I would agree, that it is a sign of the games depth, though not a particularly flattering one.

And even with the bastardized interpretation that the game has, it still fails to grasp even the basic implications of said interpretation.

If you don't like Transformers, try Fast and Furious 6 or whatever blockbuster of the month you prefer. They're about the adrenaline, and add in some soap opera level drama they consider deep. Oh, and as you pointed out, amazing facts that are so amazing because the creators didn't bother to check to see if they're correct.

Eh eh eh.

If you think that damsel in distress sporting cleavage and helper to Bruce Willis clone #759 is the strongest female character ever, stronger than clever and driven sensibly dressed women that are the main characters in their games, well, then we just disagree.

[Occulus]

154. You did nail me on that; for some reason I thought the two were the same

Wiki corrected me.

I wonder if Ken Levine ever played Myst. There's a strong story-element parallel there.

Elizabeth was strong because she didn't really need Booker. Had Booker never arrived, I think she would have freed herself in time; she was already well on the way to breaking out of her prison all on her own (and Booker himself comments a couple times on her skill in lockpicking). If we are to accept the game's ending as "the truth", there could well have been one world (or several) in which Elizabeth doesn't meet Booker until after she escaped from her tower.

A "Booker" always does make his way to a city, though; after all, there's "always a city, a lighthouse, and a man". Elizabeth is "the one", the joker, the wild card. The implication is that, while Booker, the lighthouse, and Columbia (or Rapture) are constants, Elizabeth is the unique variable, the axis upon which all of these possible universes turns. Or perhaps it is that Elizabeth turns these universes.

That makes her even more special, to my mind. Taken to its logical extreme, it implies that Elizabeth is a kind of goddess.

[Romulus Quirinus]

173. Man, I'm sorry someone said something mean about your waifu on the internet. nt

[joeglow3]

19. I watched it and couldn't help but think she was trying to condemn all games

Essentially, she wants all games to be like Tetris.

[redqueen]

22. So, when she says, less than a minute in, that it is both possible, and even necessary,

to simultaneously be able to enjoy a piece of media, while also being critical of its more problematic or pernicious aspects....

That's "trying to condemn all games", to you?

[joeglow3]

26. No, it is someone in search of a problem

Just last night, I was playing dragon quest 5. I just got to the point where your father is murdered, providing ur motivation. The reality is that with thousands of games out there, there will be a wide spectrum of plot points. Picking only those with a certain plot point and then using them as if they represent all games is pushing an agenda.

I could talk about fifty shades of grey and hundreds of romance novels about how they create one dimensional, unrealistic male characters and pretend they are representative of all books and demonstrate an unrealistic bias. The reality is that when you have thousands of books, movies, songs, or video games, just about every story line will be used multiple times in every medium. It is REAL easy to find many examples of the thing u don't like and misrepresent that story arc to push an agenda. This lady has done just that and has found plenty of followers who will eat it up because it fits their personal views they had way before ever watching the video.

[redqueen]

32. We could talk about any number of unrealistic portrayals.

This OP is about one in particular.

And for some reason, when women are the subject of the unrealistic portrayal, people act as if its somehow unfair to discuss these issues.

She never claimed all games are like this. If someone criticized racist tropes in media, or misrepresentations of homosexuals, I doubt there would be these howls of outrage, or these blatantly illogical responses.

[joeglow3]

61. No. The issue is if it is an issue

People get murdered all the time I. Entertainment mediums. We, rightfully so, laugh at the people who think this is some atrocity. Why? Because we know it is make believe. Sure murders do happen, which is why plays a role in all forms of entertainment (and did all the way back to the beginning of time).

There are movies that have child abuse in them. I read a TErry Goodkind book that had a scene of a young boy getting raped by a man. If I did a video about how wrong this is, I would be laughed at. Yes, we all the act itself is wrong, but its inclusion could play a vital role in the story.

Essentially, this lady is saying there are a limited number of roles women can play in video games and anything beyond that is sexist and awful. Most Rational people say to get a life and identify a real problem instead of creating one.

[redqueen]

63. You don't think it's a problem. Good for you. There are plenty of discussions here that I don't

think are worth my time.

I find threads I'm interested in to discuss issues I find worthy of discussion.

[joeglow3]

79. And I bet you argue against nonissues the right tries to make an issue

Likewise, I see someone creating an issue here where there isn't one, I will point that out.

[redqueen]

80. So the feminist issues you disagree with are analogous to the nonissues rightwingers manufacture?

Interesting perspective, there.

[joeglow3]

110. Made up feminist issues - yes

Saying that a litany of plot points can never be used in ANY movie, game, book, play, etc. because the use of them in a fictional story is sexist is beyond idiotic.

Like I said, this is idiotic as me making a bunch of films bitching about how sexist books are because of the unrealistic images created for men in romance novels that women read by the millions.

[Le Taz Hot]

163. The reaction to this woman's

video is CLASSIC. It has all the angles, all the codewords that amount to "uppity." I understand she's gotten death threats and rape threats because of a VIDEO. Also classic.

[redqueen]

170. Yep. She got the rape and death threats, the online game where users beat her, etc...

just for saying she'd like to make this video series and asking for funds to help with production.

You're spot on re: the reactions in this thread.

[Occulus]

102. That was the impression I got from it

And notice, she doesn't mention any of the top sellers (titles that actually sold better than the games she's carping about) that don't even include gender as a topic for discussion.

Funny, that. You'd almost think she had an agenda.

[Ohio Joe]

15. I'm no getting the hostility...

As I understand it she is a gamer... She is not trying to condemn all gaming, she is pointing out that stories are not growing with the medium. They are still stuck using the same tired stories (and not referring to all games, she does make mention of that in this episode... I don't recall the first episode) that revolve around 'rescue the princess... As well as some... variations. It is true that there are a lot of games that have zero misogyny in them but it is pretty hard to deny that there are also still a large number that do.

[redqueen]

16. Really?

There are some feministy issues about which we can expect hostile reactions from the right.

And then there are these kinds of feministy issues. I figured by now it would be obvious which ones were acceptable to most on the left (abortion, equal pay) and which ones would be met with exactly this type of hostility.

[Occulus]

18. If she was a gamer she wouldn't have intentionally misrepresented Bioshock Infinite

She doesn't even grok that Elizabeth was the best and strongest (from a feminist standpoint) female game character ever made. In fact, she sees Elizabeth as just another example of her "point", such as it is.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. On all fronts.

[Puzzledtraveller]

28. You got it

I mention below games where the player completely creates the character they want to play. Does she address that?

[redqueen]

33. She is discussing a specific topic.

She did address the fact that more games are coming out which allow you to play as women but the subject of this video is a particular aspect of many games.

[ismnotwasm]

85. They won't understand.

Should we bring up the murder and rape threats she received after her first video on this topic? I guess that's off topic.

Haters are just gong to hate.

I don't know how you stand it.

[redqueen]

91. Oh, they know. They just don't care.

And they see absolutely no connection between any of these issues. It's sad.

I'm very stubborn, and I won't stop challenging these ideas.

[intaglio]

159. Ignorance is your strong suit

The author of the video you so obviously hate is describing a trope, not the entire content of the games, but you cannot accept that because of your strong suit.

[Blue_Tires]

10. Doesn't surprise me...

It's not like the blood vendetta from the gaming community has had a cease-fire or anything...

The irony of it is on the few video game boards I still frequent, the attitudes towards women are becoming less enlightened, not more...It's like the old GOP reflex of turning the ignorance up to 11 when confronted by science....

[redqueen]

24. I agree with this analogy regarding the recent backlash against many feminist issues.

It's like the old GOP reflex of turning the ignorance up to 11 when confronted by science

[Whisp]

40. You said it:

The irony of it is on the few video game boards I still frequent, the attitudes towards women are becoming less enlightened, not more...It's like the old GOP reflex of turning the ignorance up to 11 when confronted by science....

I've noticed lately on uptick on the hate and hostility toward women and girl players and toward women and girl characters in the games. It's disgusting what the Moderators allow on chats, for one thing. Some of this shit seems to coincidentally dance with the crazed Baggers and their knuckle dragging sounds. Maybe some men and boys, even on the 'left' were just pretending to be men and boys and now that the Baggers and the slime like Legitimate Rape man came out and said what these guys really feel and opened the floodgates of ignorant and hate... now they can let loose the bile and all those years of oppression of being 'real men' who should be treating women like shit.

[Blue_Tires]

45. It's not even a topic that most gaming forums can have a legit discussion about...

Because *any* defense of women whatsoever gets a hundred "white knight" insults thrown your way; and once you're labeled with that, anything you say after that is futile because evidently you're some virgin loser hoping some random girl from the internet will give you a sympathy screw out of gratitude...

[Whisp]

47. Homophobic slurs, sexist ones, racist - the whole mix

maxed right up to who can be the crudest and most vile.

It's like a cauldron of what is wrong with the world in some of those places. I fear for the future of a possible better world with these rotted minds and their bad influence in such abundance.

[Blue_Tires]

48. My one positive thought is that MOST of them

not all, but most of them are early 20s and younger, if not mid-early teens...

I went through my similar phase in the mid/late teens and grew out of it, so I know many of them will eventually do the same...

[quinnox]

23. and people paid for this video series

wow.

[Puzzledtraveller]

27. Square-Enix and other Japanese RPG makers have some of the best and endearing

female characters. In Final Fantasy X you had Yuna, a Summoner who was plain of face yet elegant, Lulu, a Black Mage voluptuous yet strong and with a attitude to match, she did not suffer fools, and Rikku a cute and sassy and sometimes clumsy teen. The males were also represented with varying degrees of masculinity, Tidus was anything but the strong man, where Auron and Khimari were commanding and Wakka was a soft and kind big brother. You also have games like Elder Scrolls and Fallout for example where you create the character you are playing down to every detail. Does she address that?

[Hayabusa]

31. No

It was focused on the "Damsel in Distress" trope. That said, I think she heavily misrepresented Prey, which your girlfriend is far from the only family member or friend that is killed or mutated by the invading aliens.

And that's why I don't like these videos: I think she's grasping at straws at some points and blatantly misrepresenting them at others.

[redqueen]

34. Is the girlfriend's death/mutation focused on more than the others?

If so, to what degree?

You might have a point that that one example (out of how many?) is a stretch, if the girlfriend's death isn't the subject of much more focus than the others.

You're dismissing these examples as 'grasping at straws', but that is something that thousands of people disagree with.

I hope you don't also think she should be "banned from YouTube" for having a different opinion about these portrayals.

[Ohio Joe]

38. I think that is the wrong question...

There is no doubt that there are games without misogyny... The error we gamers tend to make is that of being protective of our hobby... We do not like to admit just how many games there are with misogyny as it's basis... It is far more comforting to point out that it is not ALL games instead of taking on the issue.

Focus on any one game is not what we should be looking at, rather the industry as a whole.... And as a whole it has far to many that feature misogyny as it's plot device.

[redqueen]

43. Yes, I agree.

I just wanted to try to find out if what had been characterized as a misrepresentation might have been considered simply a different perspective.

I do agree that, as she stated at the beginning, this analysis is based on a systemic, 'big picture' perspective, because it has to be.

[Hayabusa]

44. Kind of

In the area right before the battle, you do fight other mutated townspeople. I didn't recognize anyone that I saw before things went to hell, though. In early levels, you can see unnamed men being dragged to their fates by the aliens. You also see your grandfather impaled and crushed by the aliens seconds before an escaped prisoner deactivates the machines in the level.

As for her being banned from YouTube, I don't support that. I may heavily disagree with what she says, but she does have the right to say it. A lot of the outright hate comes from immature boys just wanting to stir shit or who need to manage their anger in more constructive ways. I've seen some good rebuttal videos as well.

[el_bryanto]

36. What's most interesting is the vehemence of those who disagree with her

I mean I may not agree with everything she says (I don't, I think she is a bit one-dimensional in her analysis at times), but the fact that some people get so worked up about silencing her is more telling about them than it is about her.

You really need to analyze why this gets you so worked up - why her criticisms of gaming aren't just wrong but are the sorts of opinions that people shouldn't be allowed to say (if you are voting for her to be banned, you believe she shouldn't be allowed to say what she is saying). Why do you need to silence her? Why can't you just disagree with her?

Bryant

[Pragdem]

39. People don't like to be lectured on how they entertain themselves. nt

[Ohio Joe]

41. Some may interprate it as a lecture...

Others... Like myself... Will see it as a cold hard look at the hobby they love... And I would hope, do something to improve it and not deny the problem.

[Starry Messenger]

42. Thank you for posting this Ohio Joe.

If Occulus ever cools down, I'd love to discuss Civ5 and the way women are almost completely lacking in the active units. Its my biggest nitpick of the game. There are women leaders, but the pieces that do stuff are all male. Civ4 at least had the female spy in late game, but she wasn't brought back in the new version. The Great People who are female aren't represented by a female unit. Sometimes it's a lot of things that add up over time.

[Lunacee_2013]

46. Never heard of her blog before.

Looks interesting, I'll book mark it and read it later.

[unreadierLizard]

49. The fact of the matter is this

It seems like all she wants to do is broadbrush every video game and gamer as a misogynist prick, when most studies show something like 40% of the gaming audience is women.

There are plenty of games where there is no damsel in distress. WoW, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Bioshock, Mass Effect(the series has some of the strongest female protagonists and supporting characters I've seen) and various non player games. I guess my opinion is invalid because I'm a man but most games I play have no such "damsel in distress" concept.

That's why a lot of gamers take umbrage with these kind of issues. In essence, she's lecturing people on what they should play in their spare time.

[opiate69]

51. And ultimately, what exactly makes her somebody anyone should bother listening to?

She's got a spiffy YouTube channel and a blog.. oh, and a degree in communications and "political and social thought"... whatever that is supposed to encompass.. I fail to see how her opinion is any more valid than the average loudmouth at the end of the bar.

[Whisp]

52. you have to have lived in a bubble

or never played a game to think her opinion means nothing and she is just being an obnoxious loudmouth.

wow, thanks for the clarification tho of what you think of views other than your own. All is well in game land, let's rape some orcs.

[opiate69]

58. I have no problem with differing opinions,

I just prefer them to be informed opinions. The Damsel in Distress is one of the oldest literary archetypes, found in the lore and mythology of virtually every culture that has ever existed on this little rock of ours. The fact that it is also prevalent in video games is neither surprising, nor problematic. Particularly when there already is - as has been pointed out multiple times in this thread - a plethora of games which are based on any number of the other literary/mythological archetypes, and which this particular one is absent.

Oh, and.. try to rape any Orcs and my Undead Shadow Priest will have something to say about it.

[Whisp]

68. time for caveman days to be over, no?

we try but still keep getting clubbed.

Fact is if the boy prince story was the helpless fainty one there would be a hew and a cry too, no?

Sorry you don't see the obvious.

[opiate69]

70. Right... because there are no enduring, negative male archetypes in lit or mythology....

[Whisp]

71. of course, but how do those stories affect present day males?

the useless pinky princess defines women as just that - always need a man to help them out.

the negative mythology guys - hmmm, what kinds of harm does a man in today's world receive from that? do they get teased and held back from their potential and jobs and leadership roles today because they are too stupid for trying to fly into the sun?

[opiate69]

84. That's just absurd.

The Damsel in Distress is merely one literary archetype out of many. You may as well try to say that "society" somehow compels every child who loses his or her parents at a young age to grow up destined to save the world from "the ultimate Evil!!" Also, you do realize Icarus' downfall was hubris, not stupidity, right? And as such, it still resonates as a cautionary tale...

[LittleBlue]

76. Notice how she's disabled all feeback in the video

She won't even allow thumbs up or down votes because she knows her ideas are unpopular.

[DLevine]

78. Probably because she was getting death and rape threats. nt

[redqueen]

82. Exactly. You'd be surprised how often misogynist comments get lots of likes on YouTube.

Or not. Most likely not.

[LittleBlue]

83. Forced her to disable ratings too, eh?

yeah sorry, those are separate and she deliberately disabled those too

[DLevine]

86. No, she merely did that to upset you. nt

[LittleBlue]

88. Concession accepted nt.

[redqueen]

89. Of course she did. Feminist issues are notoriously unpopular to begin with,

and the Reddit/4chan/MRA/manosphere types can motivate an army of antifeminist 'just kids and stupid teenagers' to fuck with all manner of things they don't like.

[LittleBlue]

93. I think the vast majority of viewers will be gamers

Her videos are linked in gaming forums like Gamespot and Joystiq, which have millions of users. If she doesn't want feedback from gamers, especially feedback giving counter-examples, then what's the point?

[redqueen]

98. Tne same gamers who flooded her with rape and death threats, photoshopped her face onto brutal porn

pics, tried to hack into her accounts, made an online game out of beating her black, blue, and bloody, etc?

Just for daring to come up with the idea for these videos?

Yeah, sure, they should all get a chance to weigh in.

[ismnotwasm]

107. Are rape and death threats 'feedback'

Is that what I just read?

[redqueen]

109. I think he specifically means lists of games that don't feature this trope,

as if she hasn't already said that she's aware they exist.

As if she hadn't specifically pointed out that this is a big picture, systemic analysis.

Seems to be popular, the whole 'ignoring what she's actually saying' thing.

[ismnotwasm]

113. I find the whole topic to be interesting

I don't get the negative reactions at all. The more intelligent responses are trying to be part of the conversation, not dismissive of the series or spreading conspiracy theories about it. What's wrong with discussing the role of women as gaming characters?

The next part of the series is going to discuss changes in gaming characters and role reversal. Now if we could stop with the heterosexist as well as the sexist bullshit in gaming already, (where the term "strong female character" is not needed because it won't be unusual) include more Gay and transgender characters, well, we're on our way.

In the meantime it's the same old song and dance.

[redqueen]

115. The same thing happens every time women start drawing attention to problematic aspects

of any male-dominated arena.

There are some who listen and there's a whole lot of SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!!! idiocy.

On a positive note, the irrational overreactions seem to serve as a means for drawing even more attention from people who previously dismissed whatever issue, simply due to wondering whether such irrationality might actually signal that there's something more to it than they first thought.

[ismnotwasm]

117. That was my thought

There is a bit of good discussion going on, in-between snark, or anger posters. A lot people love gaming, it's not going away, and looking at ways to improve the experience for everybody is ultimately a positive thing, even if what needs to be examined is uncomfortable at first.

[Puzzledtraveller]

81. :D

[Ohio Joe]

53. "The fact of the matter is this"

"It seems"

OH... We are not going to discuss the Fact after all... oh well.

"It seems like all she wants to do is broadbrush every video game and gamer as a misogynist prick, when most studies show something like 40% of the gaming audience is women."

It seems like your perception of what she is saying is incorrect. She has zero to say about gamers, she is talking about games. You should have at least watched the start of the video where she talks about enjoying something but still being able to discuss it's faults.

That there are games that do not rely on the damsel in distress does not remove the actual fact that many games do. Why deny a fact?

[redqueen]

55. "Why deny a fact?"

Good question.

I also wonder why the theatrics... "It seems like all she wants to do is broadbrush every video game and gamer as a misogynist prick,..."

[Hayabusa]

72. Original had Tandi

Who got kidnapped by raiders. That said, after being rescued she founds the New California Republic.

[justiceischeap]

167. I'm a female gamer

and I specifically look for games that can have a female in the starring role. She has to be a strong character and I prefer if the character is treated like an equal. In most instances she is. Even in the games I play that have male leads, the secondary female characters tend to be strong as well. There is a specific segment of games that has the "damsel in distress" concept that I personally stay away from.

Does that mean game companies don't have some work to do when it comes to the female characters they create in some of their games? Nope but not all game companies are guilty of stereotyping women. And not all gamers support the companies who do.

[Marrah_G]

171. I am female and have been gaming online for 15 years

My best friend has been gaming for 13. Both of us are now in our 40's.

[snooper2]

50. This women has milked more money from idiots than you can imagine....

100's and 100's of thousands of dollars...

for her "research" LOL...

She had one video up where she was talking real time about playing some X-Box game and she had a playstation controller in her hands


She's a Sarah Palin league grifter thought got to giver her props for that

[redqueen]

54. Got a link to that video? nt

[snooper2]

56. oh she took it down, along with blocking comments she did months back

All the comments pointing out her idiocy LOL...

[redqueen]

57. Her dedicated team of obsessed haters didn't get a screenshot?

Yeah, ok.

[snooper2]

59. I'll try to find one for you later LOL...

on conference call right now-

She is a grifter though so don't give her any money, unless you got some to throw away

[opiate69]

60. Any relation to Amy's Baking Company's online haters??

[redqueen]

62. Nope. Amy didn't receive rape and death threats or have her face photoshopped onto brutal porn pics.

People who mocked Amy for being so nasty to her customers and employees didn't act anything like the men who designed a game where you get to beat up a woman for points.

I would say nice try, but it was actually beyond pathetic.

[snooper2]

64. Do you like Mystery Science Theater?

You'll like this

[opiate69]

65. Admittedly, not my best stab at humor.. but hey.. even Bill Hicks had an off-gig now and then...

[redqueen]

77. LOL, Hicks was an overrated hack.

I guess lucky for him, pedophilia is popular with comedy fans. Just ask Larry Flynt, he published comics making light of it for well over a decade.

[opiate69]

94. Spoken like a Judy Tenuta fan. lmao...

Lemme guess, Family Circle is your favorite comic strip? That Billy's such a scamp!

[redqueen]

101. "Why do you like young girls Goat Boy?"

"Because there’s nothing between your legs. It’s like cotton candy framing a paper cut. I’m going to turn you over and spread your cheeks. It’s like a pink, quivering rabbit nostril."
- bill hicks

Yeah. Anyone who doesn't like "jokes" about how appealing young girls' genitals are is obviously a prude. Amirite bro?

[opiate69]

112. Ahhh... absolutists are sooo .... predictable.

[redqueen]

114. His "joke" about Jimi raping those two pop stars, Debbie Gibson and someone else...

yeah, awesome stuff.

[opiate69]

132. Yeah... it was.. in the larger scheme of things..

Made quite a statement about where our culture was at the time. The fact that he still makes the uptight, overly judgemental among us uncomfortable almost 20 years posthumously, is a testament to his genius. Which, despite your inconsequential opinion of him (a hack? Shirley you jest!)is evidenced by the fact that pretty much every list of the top comedians of all time (by people who actually know comedy) continually seem to place him in the top 5.

[Occulus]

111. She did WHAT?

Really?

Please post that one if you can.

I believe it, though. She seems to be that type of grifter.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

123. That's ok

The audience she's appealing to likely wouldn't know a PS3 controller from a garage door opener. They don't give a fig about gaming, just "proof" of the vast conspiracy out there.

[intaglio]

161. Evidence, or are you just another hater?

Come on give some evidence, show us the source of your figures.

Or are you just throwing accusations out there for fun

[hunter]

69. Ugh. I feel like I turned over a rock and all these creepy crawly biting things spewed out.

I'll file this one under "things I was blissfully unaware of." The video got too bloody and violent for me to watch. I've seen enough real life blood and violence it's not fun for me.

My kids must have had a rough time growing up seeing how there was always a parent or two around the house.

Oddly our house of perpetual chaos was where all the friends and neighborhood kids ended up, even though Ratchet and Clank were pushing the level of video game violence I was willing to tolerate.

I suspect it was the open kitchen, the friendly dogs, the basketball hoop, and the lack of neatness that mattered. Being able to cook your own grilled cheese sandwich or omelet is empowering. I don't know that video games are empowering, but I have a very high score at Tetris and it's very rare I can't complete a game of FreeCell.

[intaglio]

162. And not just in the video, n/t

[LittleBlue]

74. Video games are about money. Developers make what they can sell.

It's not a social engineering project.

If people really do demand social justice from their video game characters, then there is a vast untapped market out there just waiting for the right feminist to exploit. Go fund it and become a multimillionaire, places like Kickstarter make it easy to raise money. But forcing game companies to make games that consumers don't like or want is wrong. Politicizing video games is wrong. If you think there is an opportunity, go make money but leave the rest of us alone. You know why they don't? Because most gamers don't care about social justice in their games. It's fiction, after all, and fictional environments tend to thrive on unrealistic fantasy scenarios like rescuing princesses and killing lots of people.

Some of these games are truly works of art and their artists shouldn't be pressured to censor their work. Not by Joe Lieberman, and not by Anita Sarkeesian. No one likes censorship or political pressure in artwork, so yeah people are going to be upset. You should see the responses on gaming sites when a politician proposes a ban on violent games.

[Apophis]

75. Yawn.

She's cherry picking games to fit with her "analysis." She ignores so many games with strong female characters.

[Whisp]

95. DU should have PVP.

[opiate69]

119. Well shit.. I'm gonna roll a paladin then...

Those fuckers are OP in pvp.

[Whisp]

120. I prefer ranged attacks.

Most never know what hit them.

[opiate69]

121. That's why I loved my Shadow Priest ...

He was a little squishy though lol

[Bjorn Against]

122. I am a gamer and I am bothered by the sexism in the industry

I think it has gotten better to a certain extent as there have been more strong female characters in games lately, but too many developers are still stuck on the tight leather costumes that make the characters look like porn stars. I am not a prude by any means, I just think it is stupid to see all the male characters dressed in full body armor while the female characters enter the same battle wearing tight and skimpy leather.

There are good female characters out there, the most recent Tomb Raider game is a huge step forward from previous games in the series and major developers like Bioware seem to be taking strides to challenge gender stereotypes. Even Grand Theft Auto seems to have some feminist themes in it even if those themes require an eye for satire to recognize, the games clearly mock America's portrayal of women.

There are still a lot of games however that still are stuck in the past, it gets quite annoying when an otherwise great game like Ninja Gaiden for example has such ridiculous female characters that it totally distracts from the game.

I have been a gamer my whole life and it annoys me when people try to blame games for all of society's ills, but it annoys me just as much when my fellow gamers can't acknowledge the things that appear right in front of our faces.

[DonCoquixote]

140. :nods

It says a lot where the top three selling games are:

Bioshock infinite, which has a LOT of strong female characters, who often serve as the moral voice.
Tomb raider, which resisted the tempation to keep the old version of Lara
and Injustice: Gods among us, which features newer versions of wonder woman and Harley Quinn,

Yes, there are idiots, but they are dying out fast.

[Akoto]

126. Not buying. I can name many prominent, strong females in games past and present.

They are particularly evident in the role-playing game genre.

The most obvious series, Final Fantasy, has numerous strong female characters with complex back stories. Celes (my favorite), Terra, Lightning, Fang, Edea, Agrias Oaks, Ovelia (in the end), and on and on. I won't detail each because they're all very detailed, but Final Fantasy wiki can tell you plenty. Some of these characters have truly wonderful stories.

In Dragon Quest IV, a Nintendo (as in the first one) RPG, the character Princess Alena escapes her cloistered life to prove her own strength. She ends up winning a fighting tournament sponsored by the world's largest kingdom.

In the Mass Effect trilogy, you have the option of playing a female version of Commander Shepherd, the main character. She is every bit as gritty and tough as her male counterpart.

In the Dragon Age games, two immediate examples of strong female characters are Morrigan and her mother, Flemeth. Morrigan's default attire is admittedly a little showy, but it suits her demeanor and role in the setting. Everybody knows who her mother is, and what's more, they know not to piss her off (with good reason).

Alis Landale was among the first RPG/video game heroines, being the main character of Phantasy Star. She was the lead, and she was out to topple the tyrant who had murdered her brother. No damsel in distress, no need to be saved - generally, she did the saving.

Alys Brangwin of Phantasy Star IV was a famed monster hunter who rescued her apprentice, Chaz, from a life of petty thievery, turning him into a skilled fighter and a man of good morals. She is the wise mentor, and she dies for the sake of her friends.

I'll note, as an aside, that none of the above characters fall into the unrealistically proportioned, under-clothed stereotype. Even the ruler of that arena, Lara Croft, has gotten more reasonable as graphics have changed.

Of course, let us not forget Samus Aran of Metroid. We didn't know it at the start, but the tough, alien-slaying person inside that futuristic armor was a woman all along. That was revolutionary for that period in gaming history, the 8-bit era.

One character who often comes to mind is Sniper Wolf from Metal Gear Solid. If you want to see a moving scene, look up her death on YouTube. Wonderful voice acting.

Last one I'll list (but not for lack of others) is Aya Brea of the Parasite Eve series. She starts out as a rookie with the NYPD and quickly finds herself in the thick of fighting off all manner of horrors as she attempts to unravel the truths behind the plotline. No-nonsense, kick ass character.

[Hayabusa]

169. Female City Elf Warden

From Dragon Age: Origins. Rounded up to be the temporary "plaything" of a human lord and his friends. She proves that she really never needed saving to begin with...

[Separation]

130. I did see the video, but saw her kickstarter.

I wonder if she played Mass Effect. Ill admit I played a FemShep, (people who played the game knows what that is).

I will say that series was probably the best game ever with the exception of the last 15 minutes of the game. This game has a strong female leader, could of had relations with a male, female, or hell 3 differant types of aliens. Anyone remember Faux Newz getting their panties in a twist over this game because, "gasp! Our children may have their male or female character have homo or even xeno sexual relations.

Anyone with a 360 and has been looking for a strong female non booby character, please try this game. It's 3 games long with plenty of DLC.

[Bad Thoughts]

135. This research doesn't seem original

I'm not a gamer nor have I done any deep reading into the analysis of video games, but her whole presentation seems to copy feminist analysis of horror films, manga, etc., that is at least fifteen years old. I would find it odd that some scholar did not analyze video games from a feminist perspective in that time.

[Pelican]

144. Seems like the type who likes to play the victim...

If you provide facts to the contrary, as many have done here, you just don't get it and she feels more correct.

[Ohio Joe]

172. What facts?

I see a lot of pissed off people who cry about how she does not include all games but... Her point is not that all games have misogyny but rather that a lot of them do. Please, give the facts as they relate to what she actually does say.

[TekGryphon]

156. As a 30 year old with almost 500 games on Steam and a long history of gaming, I agree with her

Video games, by and large, were a boy's teenage fantasy realm. Where females did enter into games, they were portrayed in the Disney fashion - either hopeless victims or fantasy-beautiful heroines.

As graphics got better, a new angle for women in games opened up - eye candy. You could argue this originally hit mainstream with the secret Super Metroid ending, but it really came into play with the advent of 3d graphics. Suddenly women were popping up all over the place with massive boobs and skimpy over-the-top sexualized outfits.

In the modern age we're finally starting to see a turning point. Mass Effect let's you play a female heroine who isn't a blatant sex object, Portal has a non-stereotypical female, and a few others come to mind.

I think the biggest offenders in this day and age are the Japanese. They constantly push the boundaries of decency with their games. Not only do they over-sexualize females to absolutely ridiculous extremes, but they often cross into some seriously disturbing areas with the sexualization of obviously pre-teen characters.

[TekGryphon]

157. Furthermore, regarding the treatment of Anita...

Anita's mistreatment by an extremely angry and vocal minority of butt-hurt misogynists is well discussed in the gaming community. They are our black sheep. We dislike them just as much as everyone else does, but there's little we can do.

Thankfully most of them relegate themselves to the internet cesspits of 4chan and SA.

[Le Taz Hot]

164. Can I just say . . .

it sounds like some of you need to get out more and meet up with, you know, REAL people every now and again.

[LostOne4Ever]

168. I remember seeing a reply video

I remember seeing a reply video to the first part of her series in which the guy repeatedly mentioned the ending of Double dragon as a refutation of her video. Then the second part comes out and mentions just that.

I think it might be premature to form opinions on this till the final video is out.

That said, the shear HATE and vitriol this video has produced indicates to me that she probably hit a nerve. Nothing in either video that was said came close to deserving death threats or a game that glorifies assaulting her.

[Sheldon Cooper]

174. The number of presumably grown men losing their shit

over nothing more than a differing viewpoint is extremely telling. I'm glad I don't know any of these guys, but even more so, I wonder if they have mothers, wives, daughters, sisters, etc.

[Egalitarian Thug]

175. This thread certainly demonstrates and strengthens her argument. n/t

[KitSileya]

176. Yup. I invoke Lewis' Law on this thread for sure.

"The comments on any article about feminism justify feminism."

Again men discount the lived experiences of women because they cannot see or have not experienced it. Plenty of women on this thread have said that they feel Sarkeesian is correct (don't get me started on the absolutely ridiculous way armor loses 60% of its coverage if it is used by a female character in WoW. I consistently wear my tabards to hide at least some of the nudity.)

[Egalitarian Thug]

177. That's a good one, I'll be using it in future.

The rationalizations behind this mindset are so far from sanity I can't even comprehend them. I mean, the raging hatred that shows itself when a woman merely point out her personal experience is just

[bobclark86]

179. She does have a point.

Yeah, video games are sexist. Flat-out almost 99 percent of the time.

That said, who buys these things? Oh, yeah, the parents of 11- to 17-year-old boys. Parents need to vote with their money if they agree. Only then will the industry change. Look at Lego. I still have a rubber tote of those things. You know how many times they've tried to launch a girl's line and it's failed? You know why? Nobody bought them.

With that also said, the attacks are bullshit. Criticize the person for their technique of critique and refute her points. Look at her $158k in money and whether she's paying taxes on it (federal, self-employment, state, Canadian...), and if her "project" really deserves that much funding. Criticizing her earrings, name and nationality don't add anything to the discussion.