General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsZuccotti Park has been re-occupied
Starting Saturday June 1st, 2013, Occupy will be holding a homecoming celebration in Zuccotti Park, NYC to occupy the space where our movement began. By day we will celebrate and reconnect with old friends to plan the future of this movement, and by night we will take a militant stand against the NYPD to assert our right to exist in public spaces (nonviolently of course).
If you have questions or need help, please call: +1 (516) 708-4777
Read more: http://occupywallst.org/
Liberty Square in NYC is ours again! Thousands are here now. Come down today, tomorrow, or Monday.... The re-occupation has begun. Today we are rising up all over the globe. This is your moment. All day. All Week. Occupy Wall Street.
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyWallSt?fref=ts
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MineralMan
(151,269 posts)I checked the sites at the links, but nothing so far.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)over the next several days.
From OccuypGezi in Turkey, where the Government forces are cracking down on occupiers, much like they did here, tens of thousands of people from Asia are marching across the bridge to join Turkey's occupiers to support them in their fight to stop the neo-liberal privatization of public assets, in this case Gezi Square which the Government is planning to turn into a mall:
Lots of photos available on twitter, FB live all day as more and more occupiers across the world are supporting the Gezi Occupiers.
canonfodder
(208 posts)Isn't that photo from a marathon that was run a couple years ago?
It looks very familiar.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)Should we believe what we see, or what the DU Anti-Social Justice Movement Group tells us?
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I read it on the DU.
The same small crowd of conservatives keep hoping and insisting.
[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]
notundecided
(196 posts)Will never die. It my subside for awhile, but it will arise again and again. I know....I was there at the beginning.
Skeeter Barnes
(994 posts)Or even a corporate spokesperson!
KoKo
(84,711 posts)
warrprayer
(4,734 posts)people all over the world are catching on!
KG
(28,795 posts)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)
Response to Bennyboy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)welcomed him.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts) Berlum
(7,044 posts)we shall see what we shall see...
LeftofObama
(4,243 posts)Occupy! 
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)East Coast Pirate
(775 posts)I'll drop by tomorrow.
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 1, 2013, 05:29 PM - Edit history (1)
#!The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any
- Alice Walker
ReRe
(12,189 posts)If anyone passes this by without listening to it, you're doing yourself a wrong. Go back up, turn your sound all the way up and sit back.
That was fantastic, damnedifIknow! Thank you!!!
damnedifIknow
(3,183 posts)Last edited Sun Jun 2, 2013, 04:07 PM - Edit history (2)
Goosebumper for sure.
The smile and look at the 20 second mark is what it's all about.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)They used one of those light signals. It was funny. You talked to liberal democrats.. They were happy, hell they asked about occupy and bought 99% buttons, wore them proudly. Of course our locals were both inside and outside.
The conservadems on the other hand...wanted them shut down.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I'd venture to say most of that million aren't conservadems. At least not where I was standing for 6 hours with ten other hard core liberals.
All around us were people who were there because they want something different.
It was a big "occupy."
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)But there are those of us who are frustrated by the fact that the oppressors of this nation are successfully obstructing a lot of the better things that Obama and other Dems could do. The Baggers are not giving an inch. If we don't want to be ruled by a corporatocracy forever, we need to listen to anyone who has any ideas about how to get more political power for progressives.
We need everyone who will do anything to stop this descent into political hell.
The status quo is not working.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)is the cure.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I would agree with you. Now, I'm not so sure...
Pointing the finger directly at Wall Street is also to the point IMO.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)actually means something. This symbolism bullshit is tiresome. If Occupy is getting together again to blight a city park, then can you point out what the first iteration was all about? What did it accomplish? Who did they elect? I'm sorry, but for all the disdain the Teabaggers ultimately encountered, they had something to show for it in the end. They have their very own caucus in the United States Congress. Occupy has Rand Paul, who's a raving lunatic. I'd say that's a colossal failure. 
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)then all I can say is that I'm sure you don't understand what they were trying to do and how it succeeded in ways that do affect elections.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts) 
eridani
(51,907 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)to answer that question; well, with any lucidity I mean. I don't need to hear the Occupy talking points, we've heard them ad nauseum. Is this about symbolism? And if so, I truly want OWS to explain what they hope to extract from the Wall Street'ers? These people have no shame, and they're certainly not gonna regulate themselves into oblivion, so WTF? Are they gonna give us all gingerbread houses, and pink ponies?
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)You look at the puppets and don't want people to point at the puppeteer.
randome
(34,845 posts)Congress is more like a team of 'voluntary' puppets who help Wall Street attach the strings and they seem quite comfortable with their lives as wooden aspects of themselves but the only thing I see snapping them back to reality is to cut the strings.
Wall Street will not do that. Since Congress put the strings in place in the first place, I think that's where the focus should be.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)Here's a thought, since you're so passionate: Show us that you can elect a "socialist" or "green" or "liberal", or even a blue dog Democrat (in Tennessee) statewide, and I'll be willing to concede that you may not be full of crap, afterall. Until then, the Occupy manifesto you obviously swallowed & threw up in your post, is just more blah..blah..blah. 
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)nm
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts) 
MADem
(135,425 posts)
Erose999
(5,624 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)wonder liberals get laughed off the political stage? Lots of passion, and absolutely no common sense. 
Erose999
(5,624 posts)And he wouldn't do it when he had a Dem majority in both houses. The Dems had control of two branches of gov't and they sat on their hands and continued the wars and let the abuses of the Bush era go unanswered. I'll do all I can to help the Dems take Congress in 2014, but pardon my cynicism toward the idea that the corporate puppet-masters will allow any sort of meaningful reform. You see what they did to "universal healthcare". I now have a fucking congressional mandate to buy the same damn product on the free market I couldn't afford in the first place.
I'm sorry no one invited you to the "party in the park". Go back to the Rand Paul forum from whence you were hatched.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)Whether you remember it or not, Al Franken wasn't seated until August of the following year (eight months after the election), and Ted Kennedy was very ill at that time, and then along came Scott Brown. Sorry, Democrats didn't change the world in that tiny window. And if anyone is expecting "leadership" from Occupy, they'll be waiting till we're all dead. Remember? They don't believe in organization or "leaders". 
Here, this might help you as you seem prone to hyperbole, or mis-remembering:
(By The Pragmatic Pundit)
"I first shared this information in October, 2010 in a post I called “Occupy the Media” (no longer available) then later in a post entitled President Obama DID NOT Control Congress for Two Years.
Without fail, everyday I am either challenged or questioned about the information I presented. So in an attempt to further clarify the information and hopefully address the many questions, I am presenting it once again. More importantly, commenters, journalists, reporters, political pundits, Republicans and even some Democrats continue to repeat the same falsehood:
"The president controlled Congress for two years, and had the opportunity to do everything he wanted to do.”
The statement simply isn’t true.
How did so many people get this so wrong?
I’m guessing that after the election, the media made such a big deal of the fact that Democrats had captured the majority in the Senate (obviously referring to a 51+ majority), I think people became confused. Just as many things changed once Barack Obama became elected, the “new filibuster-proof majority” totaled 60 and somehow, the fact Democrats only captured 59 seats got lost in all the excitement.
Everyone also apparently forgot that Ted Kennedy Collapsed At The Obama Inaugural Luncheon and returned to his home in Massachusetts to recuperate. While the Minnesota seat remained outstanding, because the election results were contested."
http://www.winningprogressive.org/democrats-had-a-filibuster-proof-senate-majority-for-72-days-during-president-obamas-first-term
The Iraq war was wound down on schedule, as promised. Obama also promised to double down in Afghanistan when he ran the first time; he kept that promise, and still had a +5 mil vote surplus, the second time around.
So the Occupy talking points you just vomited up, have absolutely no effect on me.
The good news about that "product" that you couldn't afford in the first place is that there will also be subsidies to go along with that "congressional mandate", which means that EVEN you should now be able to afford the premiums, and I don't have to pay for the inevitable genital warts you wind up with, while partying in the park.
Squinch
(59,522 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)all happened to think of this at the same time?
The OWS haters among us are conservatives that fear making the Ruling Class mad might cause themselves some discomfort. They believe we are to accept what we get from our Ruling Elites and if 50% of us are living in poverty, it's better than 60%.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
DECLARATION OF OCCUPATION by the NYC General Assembly
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)So there.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)"I'd have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!"
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)"Occupy Ron Paul": The Libertarian Roots of the Occupy Movement
Brian Doherty|Dec. 13, 2012 2:47 pm
Michael Tracey writes in American Conservative on the links between Ron Paul-ism and the Occupy Wall Street movement, past and prospective:
One might say Ron Paul people played a more integral role to the inception of Occupy than conventional Democrats or liberals, many of whom scorned the inscrutable demonstration in its first weeks. The journalist Arun Gupta, who co-founded the Occupied Wall Street Journal in New York City and later embarked on a tour of Occupy sites across America, told me he’d see clusters of Ron Paul supporters and various libertarians virtually everywhere he went. Such folks “tended to be better represented and integrated in red states,” Gupta said–Cheyenne, Boise, Tulsa, Little Rock, Louisville, Charleston, etc.–while in “blue states” they typically formed enclaves that were “tolerated” by the wider group.
A fair number of Occupy people in those days either had no opinion of or actively disliked Ron Paul, but the undercurrents of support were nonetheless noticeable, ranging from individuals who would wield official campaign paraphernalia to others who would concede private support only for narrow aspects of Ron Paul’s platform upon intense questioning. One would more reliably come across vocal Ron Paul supporters at Occupy events than vocal Obama supporters. It was not lost on the Zuccotti Park crowd, for instance, that Ron Paul personally expressed a measure of support for the movement earlier than most any other national U.S. politician–aside from Sen. Bernie Sanders or Rep. Dennis Kucinich....
Signage bearing the Paul-derived “End the Fed” slogan was common around Lower Manhattan during those frenzied weeks. Stories of Paul-Occupy fusion emerged from around the country: in Los Angeles, a Ron Paul activist successfully added an anti-Federal Reserve amendment to OccupyLA’s working manifesto; an ultimately ill-fated “Ron Paul Tent” was established for a time at OccupyPhilly...
http://reason.com/blog/2012/12/13/occupy-ron-paul-the-libertarian-roots-of
There's a very interesting video to go with this one.
Code Pink?
Google is full of 'em, and the videos are hilarious! Occupy USA is a Ron Paul movement.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Other politicians could have done the same thing but they are afraid to be associated with We The People.
Pres Obama was probably having high tea with Queen Penny Pritzker.
I am guessing you believe that fascism is painless. It will bring so many changes and you can take it or leave it if you please.
Your obsessive hatred of OWS is getting monotonous. Seems you hate speaking truth to power. I bet you find comfort in authoritarianism. Speaking of authoritarian, does Sid have you guys all use the emoticon? How cute.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)to elect Ron Paul, and neither was I. OWS wound up being a bunch of middle class white kids who had never experienced what many of us in the black community have known for most of our lives. Foreclosure and joblessness didn't much matter til it hit the suburbs, and Chad and Suzy had to cut back on their weekly keggers. Much like the teabaggers, until and unless it affects them directly, they don't much give a shit. 
When John Lewis was boo'd, I knew exactly what you guys were about, and the Ron Paul affiliation made it crystal clear.
OWS slogan could have been "pass me a joint and a condom; let's party in the park!!!" Occupy is as fake as you are. All hail King Sid.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)It doesn't help us to be so divisive. We need "middle class white kids." We need all the help we can get.
Keep the big picture.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)& joblessness hit middle America? And assuming you've read through this entire thread, you chose to label me as "divisive"? 
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)so let us not nitpick each other. While I think you have every right to express your opinion and should, I don't think guilt-producing critical statements about groups who are on our side are very productive right now. I think they are divisive.
What I'm saying about OWS. Let us not alienate those who are on our side. Maybe not always, maybe not the way we'd like. People don't react as strongly to injustice if they don't have a personal grievance. Now the middle-class white kids are looking at joblessness themselves--it's come home. Now they understand. I came from a background of limited means myself, but was thrown with more privileged people in my family and school. They never understood until it hit home--and it did with some later. So I understand exactly where you are coming from, why you feel the way you do. But I think it's time to come together. So your comments give me a chance to say that.
We need every body we can get on our side in this fight. 
This isn't a case of either/or. (Either Obama or OWS).
This is a case of all who want to see changes. Big changes.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)purely subjective reading of the movement. Remember? They didn't want to be identified with either major party, so who the hell knows whose "side" they're on.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)in my city the primary movers were paulites, and they eventually caused a split and eventually the whole thing petered out.
it wasn't just the paulites being divisive, though.. there were plenty of folks getting their ego-boosters out of being the loudest knowitall on the block with the most free time to attend every meeting and influence decisions. it made the general assemblies .. unattendable.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)There are millions of people around the globe that support OWS and you want to pigeon hole them all into categories, like they all support Ron Paul or they all hate John Lewis. You know nothing about OWS. You want to hope the 1% will have mercy on you and tinkle on you. Pres Obama belongs to the 1%. His best pal is Penny Pritzker who is the female Mit Romney. For the last 30 years these people have been robbing the middle class blind and you are hoping they will find it in their hearts to stop, or maybe slow down.
Poverty is at an all time high and increasing daily and Obama is appointing Republicans.
Pres Obama sees what OWS is, part of a movement that threatens the 1%, that threatens Penny Pritzker and his other 1% buddies.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
The only thing OWS "threatens" in the US is a filthy park.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)wouldnt you just let them be? Is it because they wont knuckle under to the Big Brother authoritarianism?
You think they deserve to be disparaged and brutalized?
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)you didn't even know what it meant.
"You think they deserve to be disparaged and brutalized?"
Answer: I hate Libertarians, whether I encounter them here, or in the real world.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Go pester someone else.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)accomplishments are that she can disparage such a good work. Here's what she said: 'I pay my taxes, fuck Occupy'. Just like a Republican,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2826922
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)before we can go on. The test is empathy. Conservatives have no empathy. Fuck Occupy they say, siding with the authoritarians rulers. They are too ignorant to recognize that the rulers will throw them under the bus when they are done with them.
We are engaged in a class war between the 1% and their apologists and the rest of us. Sadly any half assed conservative can call themselves a Democrat.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)The Democratic Party survives because it evolved, and sounds like it evolved right past you. There's always the Greens.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)They can't see the authoritarianism because their vision is obscured by blind allegiance to a party. Their comfort lies in not lifting the wool.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)It's free on the internetz.
http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Just started on it.
backscatter712
(26,357 posts)Therefore, Occupy is a failure!
QED.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)The 1% of course and those that want to hold on to the comfort of authoritarianism. They delude themselves into believing that a compassionate 1% will be good to them. They look at OWS and think, "Mommy, make them stop."
hack89
(39,181 posts)it takes much more than they can muster to have a lasting impact and create actual change. Lets see if they can actually do something this year.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)
kentuck
(115,406 posts)potential NRA.
But without the guns. 
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Not that it would be difficult, mind you...
ReRe
(12,189 posts)OCCUPY!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Gezi Square to try to stop the privatization of public assets (the government wants to turn it int a mall. Huge crackdown by the government just like here, but people are coming from other countries to support them and Occupy Wall St are also supporting them.
This photo from occupygezi is, according to them, people crossing the Bosphorus from Asia to join in the protests.
ReRe
(12,189 posts)... of Occupiers! No I had not seen this photo. I did read that it had or was happening, but a picture really does tell a thousand words, doesn't it? The natives are restless all over the world and just like Will said, it's only a matter of time when The People will rise up and take their country back. Really, in the past 12 years, I've never seen so many protests all over this world all at the same time.
For the photo!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Search #ows on twitter.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)OWS is dead!!!! You hear me? It's dead....
Must be zombie OWS to bother our conservadems...chuckle
SammyWinstonJack
(44,316 posts)
OCCUPY!
rollin74
(2,301 posts)according to twitter reports there were about 40-50 people hanging around in Zuccotti Park late into the evening along with a few dozen cops. no apparent problems
ReRe
(12,189 posts)Bennyboy
(10,440 posts)Sunday, June 2nd
9AM: Convergence Begins Again! Each and every day, we will meet in Liberty Plaza to reclaim the public forum and work together to change the world!
2PM: Planning Meeting for Monday, June 3rd Direct Action. We are seeking to re-commit to a weekly direct action in the Financial District, to make our voices echo against the walls of power and overcome them by overcoming the culture that allows them to be in the first place! Join us in determining how together we will stand up to Wall Street and their captured politicians in Washington!
8PM: Sleep Cell Convergence! Liberty Plaza is the home of Occupy Wall Street, but we express our power by direct action, and sleep on the streets as a political action to expose the corrosion that is corrupting our world. Our targets may consistently change, but we can always be found here first as we choose our actions of resistance on a nightly basis!
Monday, June 3rd
9AM: Convergence For Direct Action! While the details of this action are still being planned and will not be finalized before we as a wider whole have come together to agree upon how we are going to work together in resistance on Sunday, we will be meeting at Liberty Plaza at 9AM no matter which target is selected and what the nature of the action is – our resistance effort will be in the heart of the Financial District, and we will meet at Liberty Plaza and march together from there.
8PM: Sleep Cell Convergence! Liberty Plaza is the home of Occupy Wall Street, but we express our power by direct action, and sleep on the streets as a political action to expose the corrosion that is corrupting our world. Our targets may consistently change, but we can always be found here first as we choose our actions of resistance on a nightly basis!
For more information visit the organizing website.
xenoturkey
(68 posts)How do you re occupy a place with no leadership?
Yeah you can occupy it.
Who told everyone to get back down there? I am interested. I feel there has to be some organizational structure in OWS emerging.
G_j
(40,569 posts)that is an organizing structure, always has been.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)See how far the NYPD is really willing to go to take a chunk of dirt.
randome
(34,845 posts)Genius.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)Such an act would rectify the situation and gain mass publicity. Perhaps even put the politicians on notice that a large segment of society is done being pushed around.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts) unless you meant
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)This country has a serious problem, and we need something to mobilize the top half of the country that still is doing somewhat OK. What that is, I don't know.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)& "we need something to mobilize the top half of the country." But these days everybody is up against it--even people who are doing somewhat OK are treading water. Everybody is too afraid of rocking the boat. Everybody knows things are fragile. (This reaction is the cowardice of the downtrodden). I agree it's time to mobilize though, or things will just get worse.
Any kind of violence will never solve anything and only gives them the excuse to further marginalize us. There has got to be a revolution from within, but non-violently is the only way. Many of us who have come to the end of putting up with it day in & day out do feel angry enough to storm the barricades. But that is not the right way to do it. We want to be visible and heard, not eliminated. We need to be a constant presence wearing them down with reason, persistence, and the force of a higher morality than they practice. Take a page from MLK's book.
So what do we do? Support any efforts to peacefully protest and practice civil disobedience. Use the internet. Network. Stop nitpicking about OWS or any other group that has our basic liberal POV. Support organizations that are working and speaking for us. Get involved and do whatever you can. Nothing is too small. Just don't do nothing. We need everyone to take a stand one way or the other.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - John F. Kennedy
If you never have the risk of violence, then there is no reason to pay attention to you. The boot will stomp you down with impunity, after all, you just keep taking it and you've stated you'll never retaliate. By declaring perpetual non-violence, you guarantee that the authorities will always use violence and you'll never progress. It also makes the movement look weak to the apparatus of power, which needs to be co opted in any 'non-violent' struggle.
It also depends on your definition of violence. Is challenging a person at the polls considered violence, is poverty financial violence, difficult to say. More to violence than just spilling blood.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)By declaring perpetual non-violence you guarantee that authorities will always use violence and you'll never progress." Well I guess we must be chumps not to choose violent means 
And then you say--Is challenging a person at the polls violence (usually yes). Is poverty financial violence (yes, in many cases). However--these are RETHUGLICON tactics. We can't use them. Is that what you're suggesting? We become like them? Use underhanded, bullying tactics? Cheat, lie and steal?
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)If you say that you'll never use it then you have no leverage. Same shit in the banking world right now, too big to prosecute, so why the hell wouldn't the banks just keep doing what they're doing, pay a fine that's less than they made and pocket the difference. There is no incentive to change. If you want them to change, start throwing them in jail with 20 year sentences. Take all of their money and ruin their lives, they WILL change, and that IS a violent act, and it's deserved.
Think about it from the owners position. A bunch of guys come up and say that you're hurting us, please stop. Then when the owners ask what they're going to do about it, they say they'll do NOTHING. Why the hell would the owners change? You have no leverage to compel them to actually DO anything. Without some sort of threat of some form of violence, be it via political means of challenging the authorities at the ballot box, targeted financial boycotts, rioting and looting, kidnapping and assassination of the .1%, we have no leverage. Just like the Democrats need real liberals and progressives threatening to stay home to keep the democrats from being dragged to the right, we need at least the threat of violence (in the conceptual sense). It doesn't even need to happen, sometimes the threat is enough. So be it if that works, but without that we have no leverage, and levers are how you can move the pillars of the system.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)-- an aggressive approach I can get behind without question. It would go a long way towards addressing so many problems.
You need lawyers not in cahoots with the criminals though.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,454 posts)or shoot up movie theaters. If you're an active supporter of Occupy, then they would do well to distance themselves from someone like you. Up until now, they've just been a joke, but your advocacy for violence moves this discussion in a whole different direction.
The Tsarnaev brothers took their activism to extremes, and the people of Boston are living with the results. Personally, I think you should be shown the door, and if your OWS bretheren are as adverse to violence as they claim to be, they should repudiate statements like yours in the strongest possible terms.
Sirveri
(4,517 posts)But what do I care, you'll never do anything to hurt me, after all, that would be violent so why should I listen to you?
MineralMan
(151,269 posts) Dignitarian
(3 posts)If Occupy is to represent the needs of the oppressed, it must be stronger then the oppressor in the battle to which the wicked cannot win. What is that battle?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)It's time to choose sides in the movement, support the Ruling Elite or Support the People's Movement.
Declaration of Occupation from the New York General Assembly:
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press. They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad. They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts. *
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)I can't run livestream links on this computer, hope it's good:
StopMotionsolo @StopMotionsolo
I'm broadcasting #megastream for #occupygezi from #libertysq live on #Ustream. Come watch and chat! 1:51 PM http://ustre.am/FIGI
salin
(48,958 posts)Beautiful!
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I am on the West Coast but will be with you in spirit.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)the weather has not and never will be a factor. But I guess you knew that. Government cracking down on people exercising their rights, nearly killing people who are peacefully demonstrating, coincidentally the same tactics being used on OWS around the world, same Corporate Robo Cops, were sent out to try to destroy a movement. As history has demonstrated over and over again, brutal tactics by governments have never succeeded in silencing people. OWS is bigger than ever. And the more government intervention it gets, as in Turkey right now, the more global support it will get.
Don't worry about the weather, this movement began and grew strong in the winter in the US. How odd that you would think the weather would have any influence or ever has on a Social Justice movement.
hack89
(39,181 posts)as if somehow the US OWS movement is anywhere close to them size, intensity and effect. Just like last year's OWS camping season, OWS will be small and limited to a handful of cities.
They do go good things and their hearts are in the right place. They are simply not what you want them to be.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)than people sitting on their butts posting on a message board.
What's the point of being so condescending to anyone who is trying to do any kind of peaceful protest against corporate tyranny.
I doubt you have a better idea.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2013, 10:48 AM - Edit history (2)
so I am not sure as to your point.
"condescending"? Really? These threads drip condescending insults if you dare to question OWS. The entire conversation is permeated with a defensive "if you are not for OWS you are not a true progressive" attitude that is simplistic, insulting and tiresome.
I have no real problem with OWS - while not particularly effective, they do no harm to those issues important to Democrats. That was my only concern with OWS going into last years election but it became clear that they had no effect whatsoever.
My better idea is to elect Democrats. If OWS is willing to do the same then I would welcome them.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Because just saying a better idea is "to elect Democrats" -- just can't be the logical alternative to OWS. Yes your attitude towards people who share our POV and are looking for ways to act on their discontent with the status quo --is condescending & nit picking.
If you haven't noticed, electing Democrats is not having a whole lotta effect against the Tea Party and their corporate sponsors.
Next "better idea".....
hack89
(39,181 posts)don't you agree?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)hack89
(39,181 posts)are all Senators I have met personally and who I respect enormously. They would be good examples of the type of Democrat we need more of.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I don't think Democrats like Obama can get done 1/10 of what they'd like to do.
So sure we need more of them, if you believe in the system. But in the current conditions they and we will always be rolling that rock uphill.
I think the system as we know it has been gravely damaged. We are in uncharted territory.
randome
(34,845 posts)Then the Democratic Party will have no excuses!
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marions ghost
(19,841 posts)you think we're gonna wrestle the football back from these people? We can try but because we're playing against cheaters and criminals, our chances of winning the house are slim. And even if Dems do get in, we may be sorely disappointed because of their obligations to the corporatocracy over us.
I'm tired of looking for elections to solve the fact that progressives have no voice in this country. I don't care about winning so that "the Democratic Party will have no excuses." Already they have no excuses.
I'm tired of these stupid political games that are always rigged in the Rethuglicons favor. I just don't have the same faith in the system that you do.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)There should be room for constructive criticism. OWS should recognize its failings and successes, and change accordingly.
1. More community support projects. I saw where OWS did significant work to help the afflicted after Hurricane Sandy. More of it, fast response; lord knows we have enough damned disasters to choose from if we can't think of enough on-going chronic problems in our community.
2. More direct action against corporations. I suggested here and at personal meetings starting a project of serious, sustained actions against the banking/finance institutions which behaved most egregiously during the Ponzi Recession. There seemed little interest in knocking back Bank of Whatever's quarterlies by 10%, and letting everyone know why it happened and who caused it.
3. More cooperation with the arts community to have regularly-scheduled parties, events, bike rides, and get-togethers to not only keep morale up, but to enhance out-reach to more people. This is so valuable ...and fun!
4. Definitely need more discipline at sites where physical occupation occurs. I don't care if someone is homeless, just out of jail, etc. But a fuck-up is a fuck-up, and those people need to be discouraged from fouling it up for everyone else.
5. Frankly, better decision-making. Consensus is little understood and poorly practiced. But however decisions are made (and decisions WILL be made), they should be on a time-certain basis with someone in charge of at least evaluating an action and if it had any effect.
6. If OWS becomes a sustained movement, it must face the question of how to effect institutional change in the political system. If that means Democratic Party overhaul, then be prepared to attend county, state, national conventions with a well-planned strategy. This was done, however sloppily and ultimately unsuccessfully, some 40 years ago.
Maybe the many demonstrations and street-protests I was involved in for the past 45 yrs. are obsolete; maybe there is something better to come from the blather of social media. I don't know anymore. But there is no substitute for having a plan, an easily-understood public face, and a schedule of events and actions. No more mental channel surfing, no more faith in gas giants of political change that we believe are just behind the curtain, ready to save us.
zappaman
(20,627 posts)I agree with all of this.
However, prepare to be told you aren't a real Democrat and that you are parroting right-wing talking points, by DU's resident Democratic Purity Policewoman.
Any criticism of the great and powerful OWS will not be tolerated!
BTW, was just in Austin. Love that city!
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I'm glad OWS helped out in the Sandy Hurricane. THAT'S what we need more of. I'm not worried about accusations of parroting right-wing talking points, I get enough about NRA TalkingPoints, marcus registrada. Just I'm-more-liberal-than-you Innertube crap. Like your play on words.
Glad you liked Austin, what's left of it. (Did you know there was a Kent/Jackson State demonstration in 1970 which pushed 30,000 people? DPS troopers with high-powered rifles on roof tops, and all that). When I was at U. of F., we had 10,000 in a unique & silent candle-light march to protest the Kent State/Jackson State shootings. Maybe it's all obsolete, maybe there is something better, but we need to get past some of this "process" stuff, get it in gear and hit the gas! Man, I'm open to all suggestions.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)---if you think we need more of that? That doesn't need to be what OWS is all about IMO. OWS needs to be about direct action against political and corporate policy.
OWS should be about direct action against the Vulture Capitalists. Every action should be to address the fallacies of their Rethuglicon policies in a specific way. And the pressure has to be relentless--OWS got that right too. They were persistent at least until beaten back by force.
I do agree that marches aren't all there is to it. They do have their place though. They could be more important to bring attention to specific grievances.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The biggest of which is demonstrating to potential supporters that I and others are part of the community.
I can't understand why ANY activist group shuns the notion of community service. It's politics, and real people, and we need to be conscious of how we get real people into any movement. The most successful revolutionary movements (some of which I don't agree with) around the world use community action and development of new institutions to gain support, or at least to defuse opposition. Community service is not just about planting trees (I do that, too). It is about coming to people's aid. You do that and you're in the game.
Our country is no different.
randome
(34,845 posts)Do you really think gathering in a park will somehow 'shame' corporations into behaving better?
Serious question, what kind of 'direct action'?
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Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)One would be a campaign to withdraw all accounts from the most egregious financial institutions, and place them into others more benign. Another might be to lend support to striking food workers around the nation. (Are you aware there have been labor actions in Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, and other cities?). So far, there is little MSM coverage except for something on NPR about business-types criticizing the strikers. Perhaps a product-based boycott whereby a make/type of product will not be purchased. And any boycott should be accompanied by a campaign to support other more socially-conscious businesses. Those are some ideas. Do you have any?
I don't know about your "shaming" strategies from under an elm. Shaming has been used enough on fellow-DUers in various threads, and it only builds resentment.
randome
(34,845 posts)There was last year's mass withdrawal but that didn't seem to have much of an effect.
And yes, I have heard of the labor strikes and I am all in favor of them. They apparently have nothing to do with OWS, do they?
Sorry, not whining to you, just musing out loud. It's hard to keep the thread straight when all the posts start aligning to the right.
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Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The lack of coordination probably is a problem. I cannot answer that question perhaps because Occupy seems to have, as one Earth First! activist called it, the "biology of a slime mold." As far as the strikes are concerned, perhaps the workers didn't see any relevance in aligning with Occupy. Perhaps another problem.
I won't accuse Occupy folks of this kind of phenomenon, but I did experience an unfortunate problem during the spate of anti-nuclear power activism in the latter 70s. At the hdqtrs. of the local campaign, people were pouring in to take part in some kind of action and volunteer work. But the meetings were bogged down with questions of "process," especially as it related to "consensus" vs. "hierarchy." For hours nothing got done. One participant remarked to me that the atmosphere had turned almost theocratic. People were leaving as fast as they came in, and some of the old hands in the movement were unconcerned, saying the turnover was newbies who weren't committed enough to "consensus-building." And here I thought it was about the dangers and expense of nuclear power. On the other hand, I saw successful actions taken by Earth First! in conjunction with other more mainstream organizations, and the EFs WERE using consensus process. But everything was time-certain, with duties assigned, usually through affinity groups.
The question everyone is concerned with seems to be this: Do we want Occupy to remain same as it ever was?
randome
(34,845 posts)I still say the whole 'occupy' part needs to go. Occupying land never does any good unless deforestation or an endangered species is involved.
Treating the word 'Occupy' as a noun is more than just semantics. Words have meaning. I would like to see OWS morph into something better.
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marions ghost
(19,841 posts) But needs to be very focused. In addition to the negative actions, campaigns to promote socially conscious businesses is an idea whose time has come. There are more of them around. marions ghost
(19,841 posts)with the goal of direct action against corporatocracy. Basically it's working outside Democratic party politics to impact policy and elections from without. But still supporting the most progressive Dem reps and candidates. Ask yourself--what is the Democratic party NOT doing for me/us? And then figure out a way to address that issue and bring pressure to bear on it.
Occupy Truth Squad--people who hold the PTB accountable through exposing their lies. I think of the guy who caught George Macaca Allen on tape & the guy who gave us the gift of the Rmoney 47% video. And of course Anonymous.
Occupy Town Halls -- make life hard for the representatives who have sold out to corporations in their home districts and force them to move off talking points and onto specific issues that constituents want to deal with. Embarrass them, confront them on their home turf and make sure there is publicity, and their betrayals are exposed.
Occupy the Market Place -- spend with companies that support your values and boycott those who don't. Publicize instances of corporate greed and exploitation. Lots more ideas on that.
Occupy the Streets where necessary to get attention, non-violent means. I think of North Carolina's Moral Mondays, going on now, and of course Wisconsin's historic fight, and similar protesting in other states. Bring national attention to state issues.
Occupy Congress of course. Don't let up. Work with those who are concerned about corporate control of the political process, even tho they are in the minority.
Occupy the Internet & use new media power. Utilize video, art and performance in new ways to bring cultural pressure to bear on politics.
This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure others would have more ideas. This could be its own thread.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)since I don't think that OWS failed. I think the Powers That Be failed.
Failed to hear.
Failed to respond.
Failed to allow peaceful dissent.
A BIG FAIL. An unforgiveable, monstrous fail.
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Most of what you're talking about amounts to community service and "how to sell OWS" to the masses. I don't think that's the point. This isn't about better marketing strategies. (OWS being a promising start-up & going public).
Getting down to the political necessity of Democratic party overhaul--you cite that as failing in the past. How would it succeed?
"More direct action against corporations." -- now that idea has merit--it is about the only power we have. More creative brainstorming needed, and more organizing. And wasn't that what OWS was all about in the first place? Taking it directly to Wall Street. That was & is the brilliance of OWS. Identifying and calling out the source of our oppression. Pointing the finger directly at it. And that should continue to be the focus.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)to succeed. They may fear OWS, but if corporate powers see no threat, they won't change.
I think direct actions against corporations can be effective, and falls right into the what the Internet and social media should be about (the "system" of the new media should make it more easy). There was little consciousness of what could be done on a nuts & bolts level among the OWS people I talked to, and little response here on DU. That is discouraging.
Democratic Party overhaul: After the McGovern defeat, the burgeoning activist movement in Austin continued, but increasingly centered on local politics as the "national" party was increasingly seen as hostile to lefty activism; I think it was a question of where we could put our energies and accomplish real goals. I can't speak of experiences others had in other locales. Frankly, a more ideological approach may be necessary: The public has to know what the Democratic Party stands for. And that should be easily explained and understood.
I disagree with your assessment of community action as "marketing strategies. (OWS being a promising start-up & going public)." My impression is OWS IS PUBLIC NOW. What community action is really about is putting a human face on our activism, and identifying with various local communities. Yeah, our image would be improved, but our STANDING would be greatly enhanced. What you want is someone to say: "Yeah, those guys helped out during the storm," or even better: "They weren't at all what the media said they were. I'll listen to what they have to say about the banks."
I wonder what OWS's decision-making process was during Sandy?
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)about using the power of the net to bring direct action against corporations. That should be the primary focus of Occupy--(the term I prefer to OWS, because it's more global). That is the source of our oppression--the stranglehold that corporations have on the Democratic process.
As for the progressive wing of the Dem party having no voice--well, Democratic party overhaul can happen later. It shouldn't be the main priority--too easy to be shut out. And let's face it--we are OUT, even as we work for Democrats elections.
I don't think we have to do community service to "identify with local communities." I think all Occupy needs to do is be a voice for the common good, the voice of a new ethics currently unknown in the business/political world. Occupy needs to point the finger at the problems, devise new ways to directly address the problems. Visibility, relentless focus, networking.
Community service is fine, but not what's really needed to deal with the big picture. Occupy shouldn't be concerned about image so much. That's a losing game.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I don't want to belabor the point about community service, only to say that all revolutionary movements which have "succeeded" took strong measures to identify with and development community-based centers of empowerment and security.
The question of Party overhaul will indeed take longer, but if Occupy does begin to have effect, the question of Party politics will move closer and closer to us with each success.
Funny, no one has addressed the point of having a good time (the party/event approach with artists)!
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)for feel good moments and solidarity building.
Artists could have a far more more important role to play as a political voice. A lot of them are net & image savvy. Sponsor some serious events having to do with art that is political and social. Use artists talents more creatively for the goal of direct action against the corporate oppressors. If you think this means more computer heads and less knitters of hats--not necessarily. It's all in the way you choose to use the visual, sculptural or performance medium. Emphasis on Art as a way of speaking, a means of expression. Art with a specific focus--to address a specific issue. Ask artists how they would bring direct action against corporations. You'd get a lot of serious ideas. After the serious work is done throw a party.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I've known few artists who have not spoken up for serious issues, and I certainly would not choose to plan their agenda. This is a human movement, and we have human needs, and I'm betting they will bring to bear their best efforts when the times arise. And they will arise.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)--what I am saying is to find better ways to use artists' specific talents than just for fun & distraction. You can find plenty of people to come out for an art fair. That's not what I'm talking about.
Invite artists to contribute to direct action--to address serious issues and to develop ideas for projects that involve non-artists to directly confront the corporate abusers. Some food for inspiration here:
https://www.adbusters.org/blogs/istanbul-rising.html
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts) Erose999
(5,624 posts)or the MIC or the banksters. He's been blocked at implementing even the most tepid reforms. He's started every negotiation by giving away the store. We needed a Teddy Roosevelt or and FDR in 2008. We got one of Herbert Hoover's cabinet undersecretaries... or something.
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts). . deteriorated to the point it is only about occupying a frickin' park in NYC.
Just to piss off the cops of the NYPD.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Much to the haters delight, Occupy suffered getting shot in the head point blank with tear gas canisters, sprayed in the face with pepper spray, beaten up and cuffed with wrist bindings that caused nerve damage, and other atrocities. The haters, the toadies of the 1%, delight in the treatment of these dirty hippies that have nerve to challenge the authoritarian Ruling Elite.
But the movement is there and the 1% know it and fear it, as does their toady apologists. Occupy is only the tip of the movement.
randome
(34,845 posts)Why would the 1% fear OWS? OWS camped out for months in public parks and local residents put up with it. You think the rich gave a damn? You think the rich care about Zuccotti Park?
No one is justifying brutal tactics against anyone but clearing the parks of hundreds of 'squatters' who refuse to go will certainly make the conditions right for a conflict.
If all OWS wants to do is 'occupy' parcels of land, I don't see how they will ever be effective.
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rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)If we can learn from history, when the gap between the wealth of the ruling class grows beyond a certain level, when most of the masses live in poverty, the masses object and things can get messy. Occupy is not the movement but might be a spark. The horrendous brutality that is used is terrorism. It's intended, not to move people out of a park, it's intended just like all terrorism, to frighten the masses into subjugation.
Some of the masses choose the cool-aide and pray that the 1% will be nice to them, while others are willing to fight for freedom and liberty.
Those in the masses that hate Occupy are like the Tory Loyalists before our first American Revolution, they didnt like the dirty hippies throwing their Master's tea into the bay.
"If all OWS wants to do is 'occupy' parcels of land, I don't see how they will ever be effective." Plezz. Your insinuation that all Occupy wants is to occupy parcels of land is absurd. They as most of us, want freedom and liberty. Although the Tories want the comfort of Big Brother authoritarianism.
And if you watch the brutality and say nothing, you enable it.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)secret memos (and we only say that one leaked memo) stated that they were one of the most serious threats to them and proposed a multi million dollar smear campaign to eliminate that threat.
I'll take their own word for how much of a threat the awakening of the people in the form of OWS is to their continued corrupt influence on our government.
randome
(34,845 posts)OWS was allowed to camp out for months in public parks and no one did a thing. That hardly seems threatening to anyone.
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sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)threat. Not to mention that the smear campaign they proposed went into effect, no doubt they were beaten in the bid by another PR Contractor. It failed except with those who were already in fear of OWS.
OWS were harassed, beaten, arrested and nearly killed for months for daring to protest the corrupt influence of Wall St on our government.
They had to bring out Federally coordinated armies across the country to finally remove them from the public square, at least temporarily. As Bloomberg referred to his robo cops, 'I have an army'. We thought the NYPD was a civilian, tax dollar paid-for police organization working to protect people from beatings, muggings, destruction of property etc. But as Bloomberg acknowledge, not any longer.
Of course if you ignore the hospitalizations, the destruction of property, the beatings and false arrests, they 'were allowed' to stay.
You are funny I have to say.
randome
(34,845 posts)Two of the firm's major actors had ties to John Boehner. Of course they wanted to funnel money to themselves and their pals.
But nothing happened because of this memo. It was ignored.
And no one is defending brutal tactics here. But like I said, after months of OWS occupying parks, the public was ready to see them go. And this 're-occupation' appears to be going the same way as the half dozen other 're-occupations' since 2011.
More power to OWS if they can change things. But I don't see that occupying a park is going to do much good.
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sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)followed the facts about them 'going' you would know this, were the ones talking to the press. Crime was down in Oakland while the occupiers were there and the public did not want them to go. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you need to find some credible sources on the facts about OWS. All of your comments reflect the propaganda from the right. They flooded newspaper comment sections with false information eg, and of course Faux et al hated this movement from the beginning and repeatedly, despite polls to the contrary, tried to claim the public was against them in Zuccotti Sq.
One contractor's proposal was leaked. Contractors do not bid on non-existent contracts so it's clear the message went out to their right wing PR Firms that Wall St needed to stop this movement. The proposals come AFTER a contract is offered.
And the same talking points proposed in the leaked memo were more than recognizable, and still are, indicating that someone else got the contract.
Wall St. definitely viewed OWS as a threat and to deny that is simply ridiculous. If they were no threat they would never have been attacked so brutally with the blessing of the corporate puppets in elected office in so many cities. There would be no movement if the original goal of remaining for, at the most, two weeks and then going home, had been allowed to happen.
Instead right from the start, and we know that the FBI had been monitoring the plans for these protests for months before they began, the crackdown began the very first day. THAT was what changed the plans of OWS, the support they received from all over the world when the brutal crackdowns were filmed by protesters and the world got to see them.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)"Occupy is only the tip of the movement."
Seconding that.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)If you think it is 'only about occupying a fricking park in NYC' that is because you are not paying attention. When I pointed this out to the last 'they do nothing' poster, I asked how their Centrist Free Clinic was going. I asked what they do to help those in need, I was told this 'I pay my taxes, fuck Occupy'. Nice stuff.
Occupy Medical
What free universal health care looks like
It’s a chilly April day with bursts of sunshine interspersed with blustery wind and rain. It’s not the worst day to be on the streets of Eugene, but it’s not the best day either, especially if you’re ill. The cold wind cuts through you and the rain soaks you, making the shaking and chills of fever feel that much worse; the moments of sun remind you that you have nowhere warm and dry to be, and no one to take care of you.
What do you do if you are homeless, uninsured or just plain broke and you’re sick? Where do you go if you do have a home but the waiting list is too long at the clinic or your insurance isn’t good enough to get you the care you need?
On Sundays from noon until 4 pm you can walk up to the former bloodmobile painted red and white and emblazoned “Occupy Medical Mobile Clinic,” that’s parked downtown at the Park Blocks and get anything from a Band-Aid to a prescription for heart medicine. You can also get food, a haircut and proof that someone cares.
http://www.eugeneweekly.com/20130411/lead-story/occupy-medical
Major Hogwash
(17,656 posts)Smoke your pot and enjoy your stay at a bloodmobile.
We had bloodmobiles here in Boise 40 frickin' years ago!!!!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I have to say that one of the most important achievements of OWS has been the revelations of exactly where people stand politically. I am proud to be a huge supporter due mainly to the list of credible people, Democrats mostly of course, Republicans would never support a Social Justice movment, like John Lewis, Alan Grayson among others, and so proud of the elected Democratic officials who were mistreated by the NYPD. Proud of the lawsuits now being filed relating to those crimes, and of the so far, multiple victories in court by OWS, now joined by journalists and others who were also brutally abused by 'Bloomberg's Army'.
But aside from all that, interesting and revealing though it has been, OWS is stronger and bigger and growing, globally, by the day, joining and joined by Social Justice movements everywhere and the very fact that it is so feared and despised by some, simply proves its huge success.
How do you feel about brutally beating protesters nearly to death in this country? Regardless of their politics? How do you feel about Wall St. corruption btw? About the lack of prosecutions so far?
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)The personal attack just shows you have nothing at all to offer to this conversation. What is the point in that sort of behavior, really? Why do you object to medical and dental professionals offering free services to those who need them? No one is claiming this is the world's first mobile clinic, kiddo, nor is it even the first free clinic in this small city.
Please tell me what you don't like about a weekly free clinic with medical and dental services available to all. That's what this is about. Not a bloodmobile, nor about your need to lash out when asked to explain what you don't like about free medical care? Would Boise refuse such a thing, oh, no we have taken care of our needy, we are Boise of the Bloodmobile!
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)been waiting for and fully supported from its inception, as well as many elected Democrats. That is very odd to me. OWS is a Global Movement, how odd that you don't know that.
Since you know so little about them, let me explain something to you. OWS was meant to last only, at most, two weeks. That was because people learned that no matter how big a demonstration was, see the anti-war demonstrations, they are ignored and have no effect whatsoever. They decided to stay for a week or two to make sure they could not be ignored.
Also, they intended to be only in NYC. But look what happened. After achieving all of their goals, staying for two weeks, attracting large crowds, remaining in NYC, instead of going home, the movement spread across the country like wildfire, and protesters all over the world adapted their title of 'Occupier' even though we here in the US were late to join the global movement when we did we had a huge impact.
When you decide to comment on something it's a good idea to know what you are talking about. OWS will grow and grow until the crimes that collapsed the world's economies and are still having a disastrous effect around the world, are dealt with. Sorry if that offends you.
hack89
(39,181 posts)it is not like OWS threatens anything I hold dear. And they might actually do something this time around.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)done, at least in my area. They run a weekly medical and dental clinic free to all, Occupy Medical Eugene. Thus far, there is no Centrist Medical Free Clinic here. Is there one in your town?
hack89
(39,181 posts)which is surprising considering what a liberal college town Providence is.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I want to say having read the link about that clinic and the Lottery to get in, I am saddened that you feel your city has plentiful services for the needy. The idea that you oppose an Occupy Medical Clinic while people in your city have to play Wheel of Fortune to get healthcare is hard to digest.
you have a nice night.
hack89
(39,181 posts)Occupy Providence is mainly students. We have a lot of universities here - you have to have health insurance to enroll.
No city has enough services. But notice that Occupy Providence has not stepped up to meet that need. They camp and hold rallies - between classes.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)to pick who gets services as a way to mock an Occupy accomplishment. A lottery. Still can't get over that.
Who in Providence IS stepping up to fill that need? All those universities, Warren Alpert is not 'stepping up' either it seems.
Lottery, Wheel of Medicine, who will get the showcase prize and enough meds to get through the month? Good stuff! National example!
The folks at the RI Clinic would be thrilled if someone, anyone, did what Occupy Medical has done here. They are running a lottery, for the love of Mike. They would love another source of services for their community. Why don't you step up and do so?
hack89
(39,181 posts)so you are telling me that they never turn a patient away? That they have unlimited resources? Can you say with absolute certainty that Occupy Medical Eugene serves more patients the RI Free Clinic? Are you saying with absolute certainty that there is no unmet needs in Eugene? Really.
The RI Free Clinic and Occupy Medical Eugene are the same - a volunteer group that stepped forward to meet a need. Why are you completely unwilling to recognize that there are dedicated volunteers other then OWS? Why can't you recognize that there have been social justice groups decades before OWS came? There is nothing new and unique about OWS - this craven desire to denigrate the good works of others to build up OWS is one of the really bad things about the entire movement.
Once again - if OWS is so fucking good, why aren't they stepping up in Providence? Why can't they do some thing else besides camp and hold rallies? You keep avoiding that question.
hack89
(39,181 posts)The Rhode Island Free Clinic’s mission is to provide free, comprehensive medical care and preventive health services to adults who have no health insurance and cannot afford those services; and, to serve as an educational training site for health care professionals. Care is provided through a dynamic statewide network of volunteer medical providers working with academic, medical, and community partners, leveraging robust health care resources with a vitality that is unmatched in Rhode Island.
WHO WE ARE
The Rhode Island Free Clinic was established in 1999 by Stephanie Chafee, R.N. Community partnerships, collaboration and volunteerism are central to the Clinic’s mission. In 2010 the Clinic was honored as one of the nation’s top 25 volunteer “models with promise,” in The American Way to Change: How National Service and Volunteers are Transforming America.
In 2012 the Clinic provided nearly 8,000 patient visits through its active corps of 700 volunteers, a lean professional staff of 7, and 5 AmeriCorps VISTA volunteers. With an annual budget of $1 million, the Clinic leveraged over $2.5 million in additional resources to provide vital medical care to Rhode Island’s uninsured, working poor and low-income adults.
http://rifreeclinic.org/?page_id=4
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Good stuff.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)WHY A LOTTERY AND HOW DOES IT WORK?
Because demand for our services is greater than our current capacity to service all who seek our help, we are limited in the number of patients we can accept each month. After consulting with other free healthcare provider organizations across the country, we decided to employ a lottery by ticket number as the fairest way to select new patients.
The RI Free Clinic selects new patients each month via a lottery process. The lottery is held at the Clinic located at 655 Broad Street in Providence on the first Thursday of each month, beginning at 4:00pm.
Watch our video on how to become a patient at the RI Free Clinic. The video explains the lottery process and the eligibility guidelines and will help prepare you before you come to the lottery. Click to view.
http://rifreeclinic.org/?page_id=6
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)I note your clinic came about in 1999, our primary free clinic is over 40 years old. Was yours really started as part of a Centrist Movement? Of course not.
You do realize I didn't claim there were no pre Occupy Free Clinics, I was responding to posts saying Occupy has done nothing, when they have been serving the people of my city well. You did not address that, nor did the 'they do nothing guy'. Nothing equals Sunday Free Clinics and from a mobile platform able to reach into rural portions of our county. Whatever you guys need to tell yourselves.
You guys have just 7 professionals in a State wide free clinic and you think additional services are a bad idea? At your link it tells about the Lottery your citizens have to enter to be lucky to be able to apply for edical care, which is limited to those who file and prove hardship. Obviously your community has seen to everything! Sickness Lotto!
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It says:
Because demand for our services is greater than our current capacity to service all who seek our help, we are limited in the number of patients we can accept each month. After consulting with other free healthcare provider organizations across the country, we decided to employ a lottery by ticket number as the fairest way to select new patients.
The RI Free Clinic selects new patients each month via a lottery process. The lottery is held at the Clinic located at 655 Broad Street in Providence on the first Thursday of each month, beginning at 4:00pm.
You left that part out. Sounds like they could use another clinic in town....
hack89
(39,181 posts)they were last seen camping and holding a seemingly endless series of rallies on a seemingly endless series of issues. I don't think they are in to actually doing anything.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)spins a wheel of fortune to pick who gets to apply and clearly that has not moved the populace at large to action. In fact the lottery place was called 'good stuff' right in this thread, and example to the country.
Is anyone in Providence doing anything other than putting names in a hat to see who gets medicine? Seems a more pervasive problem than any one group could account for.
hack89
(39,181 posts)is that what I am hearing? Pretty weak.
So tell me - why hasn't OWS stepped up?
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)the tone and frequency of detractors I think hints at it's success, the status qou is threatened. Perhaps it's not even a thorn, or a splinter in it's side, but they still feel it anyway.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)
deaniac21
(6,747 posts)
Rex
(65,616 posts)"OWS is ded OWS is ded!" 
I love watching desperate people pretend OWS is dead. They flop all over themselves to make SURE the thousands and thousands of people involved know that it is DED! From their keyboards no less!
NOT A ONE has the fortitude to protest anything, they will all go quietly into the back of the truck. Sad really.
OWS IS DED!
Sorry kids, better luck next time!
snooper2
(30,151 posts)He didn't see anything special going on, just like any other day..