I just saw on CNN that the IRS spent over 50k in star treck spoof videos

[darkangel218]

Also they said IRS officials have been staying in presidential suites which go for more than $1500 a night!

What the hell?

[atreides1]

1. That's a major problem

Remember the USDA did the same thing...the fact that the current technology allows for tele-conferences without expensive trips, hotel rooms, line dancing, or Star Trek spoofs!


And yet they still do it...IRS, USDA, FDA...doesn't matter which agency all have probably wasted millions in tax payer dollars for what are mostly frivilous excursions and mini vacations.

It needs to stop and be done based on actual need not because someone wants to go to Hawaii.

[darkangel218]

2. I thought it was a joke. I still cant believe it

People can't afford to pay for a doctor visit or refill their prescription, yet some federal agencies get away with so much abuse ( of our money, technically). What the hell is going on?

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. You are getting, successfully mind you, distracted

[darkangel218]

38. Am i?

I watch homeless people every day on the street. Theyre barelly hanging on. I can bet you some if not most have had decent lives and paid their taxes at some point of their lives. Now they're in need of help, and the city/county/feds do mostly nothing for them.
And what do I see on the news, federal agencies wasting money on spoof star trek videos?

Excuse my "distraction".

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Given the percentage of the IRS budget used

For training and conferences, versus the taxes they collect...it is less than 1% of the budget.

[darkangel218]

47. They dont collect taxes for themselves, they collect taxes for the whole country!

So you're argument has no stand.

They get a salary to do their job, there is no excuse for wasting the money the way they do.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. So how do you think they learn to do the job?

You believe federal agents (insert agency here) get it by osmosis? This is training. 1% og the budget slated for training is actually well bellow average for any agency, federal, state or local.

You seem to love Walmart, who we, yes, we, heavily subsidize. This is hate federal employees day I guess, you fell for an Issa made scandal, faux scandal at that...congrats.

[darkangel218]

58. Training in what, star treck encyclopedia?

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Sure, you can use that for actuarial terms.

What was the cost of that within the total budget?

I wish CNN did their job.

You know why Issa is going after he IRS? Not only did they dare go after tea parties, but after the USPS they are the most efficient agency in government. The USPS is a hybrid these days...so by definition the IRS is the most efficient agency in the government.

In fact I wish every other federal government, state and local was as efficient in the use of money as the IRS.

[darkangel218]

71. Do you know how many meals for the homeless

Who, again, at some point paid their taxes, will 50k buy??

Lol play it like is nothing, its all good. Who cares, right

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. You know how well we would be if ther far less efficient

Agencies reached even those levels of efficiency?

Serious, you are missing this by a mole hill. Compare and contrast...$50.000 versus 9 million DOD lost one day at the airport in Baghdad.

It is the equivalent idiocy by the way.

Yup, you are successfully getting distracted by the car thieve (Issa was actually convicted). Congrats.

[darkangel218]

75. I understand other agencies waste even more money

They all need to stop doing that. My point is, no amount wasted is too small. It could feed thousand of starving people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Training is not wasted money

I guess we all get trained in our sleep

[joeglow3]

110. The fact that you think people paying their taxes counts as "income" for the IRS is laughable

And this is from a tax CPA.

[Skittles]

155. THANK YOU

[Fla Dem]

118. You know that's what I was thinking. This is not wasted money.

This was an attempt by the IRS education staff to liven up otherwise dull training videos. Training videos are used all the time to educate staff in private as well as public institutions. It is way less expensive than sending training staff around the country to train, or bringing staff into the corporate office for training. I guess the whiners would rather these people not be trained at all. Another example of a scandal that isn't.

[darkangel218]

121. Okay, so you have an excuse for the videos. What about the presidential suites

Which cost over $1500 per night?

[Rex]

124. If that bothers you, how about when the Pentagon lost

a trillion dollars!?

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Military-waste-under-fire-1-trillion-missing-2616120.php

"The Department of Defense, already infamous for spending $640 for a toilet seat, once again finds itself under intense scrutiny, only this time because it couldn't account for more than a trillion dollars in financial transactions, not to mention dozens of tanks, missiles and planes."

I mean I agree, $1500 per room is a lot...but 1 TRILLION dollars and no body seems to give a shit!? Nothing happened as a result and is one reason I never believe anything from politicans about 'financial responsiblity'. Really? When does that start?

So far all I see is a govt that punishes The People for not paying a nickle and yet lets some of ITS OWN get away with losing a TRILLION DOLLARS!

Another reason I see it all as stage acting. If they REALLY cared, something would be done about the MIC.

[maddezmom]

136. This whole IRS seem is just more of the MSM pushing the GOP meme

About how evil the IRS is to prolong the manufactured "scandal".

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. Jaysus...how much did the IRS collect in n those two years?

Answer...trillions

[ProdigalJunkMail]

161. so, because they COLLECT the money

they can WASTE the money? i mean, who'll miss it? right?

sP

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. Yup

And the ROI has been incredibly good...

[darkangel218]

167. lmao!!!

Last edited Tue Jun 4, 2013, 05:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Sorry, but I fail to understand how you rationalize this. Nevertheless, its entertaining

[nadinbrzezinski]

170. Well it is in the IRS internal report

$1500 per room for a whole week is hardly excessive in any way you want to put it...but hey, the inspector general is lying.

[darkangel218]

173. Can you post a link where theyre saying it was 1500/week?

Even if that's true, its excesive, there plenty of 4 stars hotels you can book for half of that.

[Skittles]

129. sorry, I do understand the distraction stuff

but I also understand that wasting tax dollars is DISGUSTING

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. Most people in the public and private sector

Set money n their budgets for training. Perhaps I am daft, but in a dept where this is less than 1% of the budget, and the training leads to the total collection of trillions of dollsrs over two years...if this was the private sector people would be applauding it.

I got the feeling that Issa needed a new shiny to get people to pay attention.

[Skittles]

147. there are a lot more economical ways to train

these folk are indeed wasting money, and giving easy ammuniton to fuckwads like Issa

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. I am daft.

The training budget is less than 1% of the total budget. The ROI of that training was trillions. Well above the 56 billion for two years of budget.

A private company showing those results would go up in the exchange like a real bubble.

Issa will attack, the more efficient that government department, the worst it will be. He hates efficient government...and folks are swallowing.

I am just left with this conclusion...government is bad, privatize it, all of it.

[Skittles]

149. I'll ask my "Happiness Expert" for advice

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/03/18731628-2010-irs-conference-featured-happiness-expert-17k-art-session?lite

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. Companies do this regularly.

And they don't have this rate of return on investment on employees.

It's the IRS, people hate it, I get it. What I find hilarious is the outrage level echoed here from a car thieve.

[Skittles]

151. I've worked for corporations for 33 years

I know what what the fuck they do

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. Have a good day

Yup, let's privatize all.

[Skittles]

154. LOLOL

[ProdigalJunkMail]

163. she hates that the real world doesn't jibe with her view

at least she didn't go back and delete the whole thread or all her 'controversial' posts in it... maybe that's later.

sP

[ProdigalJunkMail]

162. and they have to answer for it

if it turns out that it WAS necessary (rather, they will have to prove it IS necessary before getting funding) then they get the accolades. however, the IRS should not have to SHOW how this $17K benefited the organization because YOU say so?

that's rich. if they can justify it then there are no problems... the thing is... they can't.

sP

[Yo_Mama]

168. We're voting on cutting food stamps and the president wants to raise drug copays

for the lowest income Medicare recipients. Think of what this money would do in programs such as those.

This is a problem. It's a PR problem but it is also a genuine problem because it suggests something about the psychology.

[DrDan]

85. it's funny how some here can justify $1500 per night for lodging for federal employee training

I agree wholeheartedly with you - this is a ridiculous stretch

There are many ways to deliver effective training short of this excess.

[Skittles]

156. THANK YOU

WTF is WRONG with people???

[Initech]

105. We deregulated everything in the 90's. Everyone gets away with everything now.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

125. I can't believe it either. You should get a better film for $50k. nt

[Yo_Mama]

169. They should have just showed them the Jim Carrey thing on Youtube

More bang for the buck, shall we say?

[Blue_Tires]

24. It's a problem, but not a major one...

And like I said with the USDA story, if CNN and average Americans are truly outraged over tens of thousands of dollars in waste, I suggest they take a look at the Pentagon and DHS...

[maddezmom]

39. DEA, FBI not to mention the secret CIA budgets

[sinkingfeeling]

3. But it's AOK for Walmart to spend $50 million on its shareholder meeting?

[darkangel218]

5. Walmart is a private company, correct me if im wrong.

Are we subsidizing Walmart?

[shawn703]

7. Yes we are

Since we're paying for health care/other benefits for Walmart's employees that are under the poverty line.

[darkangel218]

10. Okay, i didnt know that

[sinkingfeeling]

9. Yes, taxpayers certainly are. Recent study has each super-center costing

taxpayers $900,000 a year to subsidize their employees with CHIP, Medicaid, and food stamps. And if Walmart wants to build a store in your area, your city, county, or state will be more than happy to eliminate all types of property taxes and restrictions for them.

[darkangel218]

12. Thanks, i wasnt aware of that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yup, every day of the week

Who do you think pays all that public assistance programs for partners that don't get paid enough to live? And then come all the tax breaks hey get.

[Fla Dem]

116. Yes we are! To the tune of 4 Trillion, 6 Million, 800 Thousand per year to American taxpayers

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017122796

[1KansasDem]

145. Think you need to check your math.

Federal budget is only 3.5 trillion!

[tridim]

4. Contrast $50k with how much money the DEA has wasted over the years.

We're talking about hundreds of BILLIONS, not tens of thousands.

Priorities.

[cali]

20. how about 50 million? That's what the IRS spent on employee conferences in 3 years

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/03/18718103-report-irs-spent-50m-holding-220-employee-conferences-over-three-years?lite

and that's just the IRS. I loath the DEA but this is a real problem.

[gcomeau]

29. No 50 million is not "a real problem."

It's less than a tenth of a percent of their budget. Spending less than 0.1% of your budget on conferences is not "a real problem".

[cali]

36. The president of the U.S. thinks it's a problem

I'm sorry, but there's no excuse for wasteful spending like this. That money can actually help people that need help and make a real difference in programs that are being cut back.

[gcomeau]

87. He's politically obligated to say so...

It's a nothing. A distraction from actual real issues that matter. But it's also something designed to make the average person freak out and get outraged about.

If you want to get your hands on wasted money that can help people look at things like the Pentagon and the F-35 program. That thing is 166 BILLION over budget.

Don't get distracted by the outrage of the week artificially hyped by the GOP over some nothing line item that is 0.03% as significant a money sinkhole as actual REAL issues.

[pecwae]

159. Of course it's wasteful

and it's puzzling that so many here don't think so because the waste isn't up to a certain threshold. This is only one example. How much does it really add up to government wide? As a federal retiree I can say that the majority of this training is useless. Much of what is thrown out there can't be used by the feds because it violates personnel policy, employment law or agency guidelines. It's often used as a reward to those attending when the budget doesn't allow for significant annual performance awards. Money better spent elsewhere.

[joeglow3]

111. Most companies don't hold conferences every 5 days.

[gcomeau]

115. Most companies don't have...

...over 100,000 employees that are responsible for something is mind bendingly complex as ensuring the enforcement of the twisted ridiculous mess the United States calls a tax code while half the nation hates their guts for doing their job.

[joeglow3]

153. I am a tax CPA and worked 10 years in Big 4

We had tens of thousands of employees who worked in all the same tax code sections and never had training like that.

[CreekDog]

46. $163 per IRS employee per year

please go on.

[gcomeau]

88. Exactly. Not unreasonable at all. -nt

[DrDan]

108. suites for $1500 per night?

[haele]

114. Government only pays per-deim - maybe up to $300/$350 a night. Employee pays the rest.

The government won't pay that much for a suite unless 1) that was the only room available within 50 miles - I've seen them try to put a 2-star (Admiral) up at a Red-Roof Inn in Baltimore instead of putting out $700 a night in DC for a last-minute attendance requirement at a high-level conference during "the season" (end of fiscal year) (he ended up at the Barracks at the Navy Yard instead) or 2) security/protocol concerns (high level official/political target) where a suite like that could support the infrastructure needed for the guest.
I don't seriously think even the head of the IRS can get the govenment to pony up $1500 a night for a suite. That's a Secretary of State/Vice Presidential visit level of lodging.
If those people got suites at that price, they were either tripling up at $500 apeice to get the room, or they were getting the government per-deim price for the event attendance and paying for the upgrade out of pocket to make it a working vacation.

Haele

[DrDan]

132. thanks - sure hope that is correct and taxpayers did not pay that excessive rate

hopefully an easy charge to refute

[FloridaJudy]

134. Depending on how many occupied it

That might be a bargain. It was a vacation that we paid for ourselves, but ten of us from my workplace once crammed into a suite in Disney-world. Those things can be huge! It was certainly less than we would have paid had we rented individual rooms - not to mention that the late night gab-fests were a lot more fun than sitting alone watching TV.

[joeglow3]

113. Talked to the 8 agents on site here

None of them have attended any conferences. I will bet they are not the only 8 in the nation. Something tells me that the amount actually spent on individual employees is much higher than that,

[siligut]

40. Yes, but the DEA isn't investigating the teabaggers

[alp227]

158. you damn right, when will CNN plaster THAT all over a top story? n/t

[maddezmom]

6. As maddening as it is, I will be it isn't out of line with any other fed agency.

It is in the news because the rebukes are making a big deal out of the IRS. Would love to see a comparison by dept and by years for all of them.

[darkangel218]

8. Even if thats the case, there needs to be some sort of investigation

And changes made. If all fed agencies are wasting money like that then that's pretty effed up imho. We could use that money for better causes, there are pretty desperate people out there who don't know when their next meal will come.

[SoCalDem]

11. The car thief is working that one already

[darkangel218]

15. It really shouldnt be a game. Its real money who sometimes

Mean the.difference between life and death for those without.

[Fla Dem]

119. Producing training videos is not wasting money.

Training videos are an effective and less expensive way of getting important information out to the employees so they can do their jobs effectively. Geez, how do you think people learn new procedures and practices? By osmosis? Training videos reduce the need for travel expenses by the educational staff traveling to sites, or for employees traveling to training sites. So they made the videos a little more entertaining by spoofing Star Trek and Gilligan's Island. I say good on them for their creativity in trying to make dull material a little bit more interesting. These are general business expenses incurred by all companies.

[darkangel218]

120. Umm.. and how a star trek spoof is training? i fail to see it.

There are other, much cheaper forms of entertainment out there, imo.

[Nye Bevan]

21. OK then. Put a stop to this nonsense in *every* Federal agency.

And use the money saved on programs for the poor.

[maddezmom]

23. Totally agree

There are plenty of other ways to spend this kind of money, my point is the outrage over the IRS spending this money is due to the GOP newest investigation.

[Nye Bevan]

13. Careful. Criticizing this stuff here can get you called a "Teabagger",

accused of perpetuating "right-wing talking points", and asked if you "got lost on your way to Free Republic".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2938562

[darkangel218]

16. Are you being serious??

[Nye Bevan]

17. Check out the link.

Apparently it's unacceptable to oppose lavish conferences and free baseball tickets for IRS employees.

[darkangel218]

18. Okay, thanks

[siligut]

44. The problem is that this is nothing new and it is now just a convenient tool of the GOP

Please don't tell me you are unaware of this.

[DrDan]

109. then it is a "tool" that WE should remove

rooms for $1500 a night is ridiculously extravagant

[Occulus]

133. Well, I for one have had it with all the trollery trolling lately. I'm going to tell it like it is.

Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2013, 06:32 PM - Edit history (1)

Note to potential jury members: please read this to its end. I'm taking a risk in trying to tell some truth, here, by being as honest as I can be about what I see here and elsewhere on DU (as all such in any subject often do), but someone needs to call a spade a spade... even if it's probably too late and "offensive" or "over-the-top" to our nebulous "community standards", whatever they have most lately mutated into by the time this gets to you. As ever-changing as they are, they're mere suggestions at best, because rules have words that mean things and that doesn't describe something that is whatever six people decide that they are at any given time, in any given post. I don't know what makes a post hideable from one day to the next any more... and that bothers me, too. So I may as well dance my way across this thin scrim of ice I see before me. Enjoy, and please.. don't vote based on this peremptory appeal to your sympathy. Use your heads, instead.

I'm just a little bit angry with this thread and the legitimate, honest, actual democrats posting in it. If anyone takes offense at this post, or takes it personally, I'm probably talking to or even about you, so listen up. If this has a Metaish crunch with Metamallows and makes you want to make it swim in Metamilk, so be it. Meta's gone, for better or worse, but truth still needs to be told. I have a thing or two to say about this thread right here and many many others like it, and I'm saying it. I know this is painfully long, and I apologize for that if you manage to slog your way through it, but I think all of this needs to be said, and often. I'll take my chances, and let the chips fall where they may.

Rightwingers are ALWAYS "unaware". Their feigned ignorance, not a bit of which is honest- honest ignorance is forgivable; knowingly posting feigned ignorance, such as we're being fed so often lately and by such a determined but consistent few, has another word entirely- is their fig leaf, and worn publicly, with nary a blush for the rest of their naked dishonesty. The ideas that 'government employees are living high on the hog on YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLAR YARGLE' and that 'we must combat out-of-control governmental WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE BLARGLE' are very very old and threadbare rightwing memes. Oh look! THIS THREAD IS FULL OF RIGHTWING YARGLE BLARGLE, and from so very few. And it's coming from exactly who you'd predict it would. Imaaaagine that.

Frankly, I'm surprised that we're all so cowed here on DU regarding identifying these people for what they so obviously are that we don't at least say something, anything at all, about how trollish this entire thread, and others like it, is solely due to some repeated usual suspects. Apparently, there are people on DU who get to use these ideas, peddle these intellectual poisons, tell these outright lies with apparent impunity. That shouldn't happen, not if the site's rules and policies are working the way they ought to, and if we were doing our jobs as legitimate, honest members with actual "community standards", those people wouldn't feel bold enough to keep trying it. I'm saddened by the number of people treating this OP as being anything close to being posted in good faith! Do none of us remember yesterday, or the day before, or the day before that any longer? Does a poster's prior, consistently-rightward slanting posts just fall into our own personal memory holes? Do we not consider that the patterns we see might actually be there?

Are we members of a Democratic site, and (largely) members of the Democratic Party? Or are we a lawless mob, each of us posting from somewhere in the wilderness?

When is enough finally enough for us to wake up to the outright rot we're being asked to swallow 'on good faith', in this thread and in others? Have we finally ignored or abandoned our own principles so completely that every position is valid, to be argued back and forth until the Sun dies, even when they're the ones we know are purely ideological and particular to the political so-called "philosophy" of the other side, and not of our own?

Some on this thread are actually calling for an investigation. It's like what happened with drug testing all welfare applicants in Florida (and public-assistance means-testing in general), and the thread about the expansion of that demonstrably and mathematically, incontrovertibly failed policy. Some of us may remember how surprising it was to see so many people cheering the expansion of such a sterling example of unsuccessful, money-wasting, and above all cruel and demeaning Republican policy (but I repeat myself, repeatedly); other, more astute and perceptive members will recall exactly who it was who started that cheering and how easily they conjured the groupthink necessary to get that unthinking, mass agreement, even in the face on the very same thread of actual, verifiable evidence that that policy did not and will not ever actually save any public money- rather the reverse. Do none of us recognize an obvious rightwing agenda anymore? Are we really going to accept the 'there are always two sides to the story and both deserve legitimate discussion and endless debate' falsehood, when one side is constructed of decades' old, well-known, deliberate lies about something we all know all too well the Republican "drown it in the bathtub" Party, to all our detriment, detests?

Is obvious obvious any more? Or do we now need debate on whether water is wet, the sun is hot, and down is the direction gravity pulls us?

The message in this thread's OP is "government workers are paid too much". That's Republican. The hook is "OH NOES! Civil servants are living large on YOUR TAXPAYER DOLLAR! STOP THEM BECAUSE THEY'RE BETTER OFF BECAUSE THEY WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT, and "everyone knows" they can't possibly deserve to be paid well or get a travel stipend or expense account! TAXPAYER DOLLAR! It's WASTE! It's FRAUD! It's ABUSE! INVESTIGATION NOW! REPUBLARGLE RANDBLARG! VALID ARGUMENT! REFUTE NOT REMOVE! ME NO TROLL!"

All of that is Republican, too.

Shame on those who recognize all this as such- in thread after thread, day after day, from one puke to the miserable next, ad nauseam- for what it is (it's called trolling, by the way) and are saying nothing about it out of fear or exhaustion, for being so credulous and naive, or simply for being so tired of it all, that they're taking this OP as even close to honest or, worse yet, putting them on ignore altogether. Those who refuse to use the ignore feature thank that bunch ever so much for making their "refute don't remove" job that much harder, and for giving those same trolls some much-needed breathing room, when we all ought to pile on those trolls and then kick them hard in boy-band sync while they're down- either until the troll gives up and leaves, or better yet gets served a fresh, hot pizza, straight from Skinner's oven.

We've all heard these exact same Republispeek(tm) distortions, exaggerations, and outright lies before, literally for decades, beginning in earnest with that senile old racist lying two-faced bigoted shitfuck Ronald "I'm from the government and I'm here to help rape you of everything and starve your kids by calling ketchup a vegetable like me" Reagan, and we've been identifying those who use them as such, and ejecting them with both prejudice and very public glee, since the very beginning of DU itself. Why we aren't throwing off this site those who try to recycle these old and worn slogans (and not-so-cleverly repackaged at that, if this original post is any indication) so consistently is something you'd have to ask Skinner. Mod knows we used to, even when DU3 started. Now they just.... vanish. Sink like a ripple, with no fuss nor muss. And without knowing why they were banned, the trolls who remain aren't given notice that up with their shit we will not put.

"Savages" put heads on skulls. Society publishes the names of criminals and their crimes. Both are object lessons: here there be dragons. Now we are coldly, precisely surgical to people motivated primarily by emotion- hate and fear chief among them- and that does not and can not send such people any lasting message. In fact, by disappearing them as we now do, their removal sends no message at all, especially since now we can't know, ever, what got them banned. Trolls used to have that much of a clue, and it kept them quieter. It had to. They eventually ran out of nonpizza-worthy things to say. It was harder to troll, because the bannable offenses were clear and obvious... and most of all, excepting some notable cases (Fredda "my father was every Jew killed in the Holocaust" Weinberg, Omega "Menstruating Moon" Minimo, etc.) publicly enforced.

Yet for some reason, now, after all this time and experience, all the site refinements, and ups and downs, after all of the betrayals of false-pretense posters with tongues of silver and intentions of carbon black (emilyg, r_digital- both, I should add, exposed and damned publicly, with accompanying rock-solid proof, via crowdsourcing in Meta), we have apparently decided to allow them to stay. That's the only conclusion I can reasonably reach: these statements about waste, fraud, and abuse, about government workers living large on your dime, and so enthusiastically reported and promoted by the thread starter, too, are vintage Republican. They're of a very old vintage, so old its levels of background radiation are measurably different, and mark the bottle as aged indeed. It is so much the case, so blindly, brilliantly obvious it can hide in the shadow of its own light, that I am gobsmacked as to why certain members posting on this thread ever got beyond a few hundred posts, and I'm absolutely flabbergasted that they're still here after thousands, given the consistent, unchanging content of their too-clever-by-half musings.

Everyone "on our side" who has paid any attention over the last, oh, three decades or so of news media knows these phrases and slogans and dishonest mental tricks very well. Our political bodies are covered with the bruises the thick and fast propaganda has inflicted upon them. We've been battling those things, again, for decades. My entire life, easily, and I'm almost forty. This site is not intended, at its heart, for us to do yet more battle with them; this site is for us... and I think we've largely lost sight of that in the name of "the big tent" and "compromise" and "hope for change" and that ever-plasmidic, fluid set of "community standards" which nobody, including the admins themselves ever seems to be able to clearly or concisely define.

And that's sad. Our purpose here seems to have become, in a word, polluted... and the polluters are telling us with a straight face that tapwater which actually burns with a visible flame is somehow safe to drink.

So what gives? Why, in the name of everything DU is supposed to be about, are we accepting so-called "arguments" like "I saw CNN tell me something bad about lazy underworked overpaid government employees, OMG it must be true it was on CNN, what can we doooooo" (vintage appeals to honest ignorance, constructed strawman, and assumed authority: three more Republican mental tricks)? Why are we not instead shouting down those statements as obviously, agedly, manipulatively false framing, like this stinking, oozing original post, for the troll scat they are? Did our own, private, clearly-labeled tent finally become big enough that elephants like some of those in this very thread (and even now, I can't take too big a chance and name names, even though that's as obvious as blood on snow) can shit in it with impunity and not get shown the door? Or are those of us who do recognize it putting them all on ignore because we're afraid our transparency page might get revealed (ONOES), and us eventually banned, simply for telling the truth when it is right there in front of our eyes?

In the words of Ren & Stimpy's Mr. Horse, "no sir... I don't like it." Yet here we are, letting yet another one of this oh-so-easily identifiable types oh-so-"innocently" channel Ronald Reagan's miserable god damned fucking ghost, and foolishly giving it enough merit to warrant argument and discussion when we should be consigning those failed ideas, false talking points, and obvious agendas to the trash where they rightly belong.

Just how big of a handle does the spade have to have these days before we stop calling it a heart and call it the spade that it is?

[siligut]

135. Some people are easily influenced by TV

The OP of this thread is a little lost in the world right now and is looking for something to cling to. I see the insidious insertion of RW ideas as the real threat.

But this post of yours has OP written all over it.

Just take out the DUer references.

[Son of Gob]

144. .

[Notafraidtoo]

157. I agree

I have lurked on this site for years and it is very noticeable to me how far this site has moved right,when it comes to economic or government issues its like there is tons of republicans here who don't hate gays or black people although many still don't like women.

Sorry guys social issues is not enough. Many are letting themselves get pulled to the right by a increasingly Conservative Democratic party or by some Republican lites but the end result will always be the same -No protection from powerful greedy people who want every second of your life to be on the market and be about making them more money.

They see your education as a market,your health and your desire to keep it as a market,your old age and death a market that is all you are to these people..once you realize that then you will understand every message much like this IRS BS and its true purpose. to accept laws that give them 100% access to you with no interference from anyone that can protect you. This is what power concedes nothing means they really want it all.Its not a conspiracy its just the natural order of greed.

[SlimJimmy]

28. That's the last gasp when they are losing the argument. I've seen it many times here on DU.

It's been used against me in several thread having to do with the DOJ investigations. If you have a point of view that is contrary to the DU herd, you get tagged with the Teabagger, RW talking points, frerepublic meme. I had one poster who had been here for just a few days try that. All I could do what shake my head, and move on.

[SoCalDem]

14. Public sector workplaces are just like other workplaces

they have team-building meetings, they have "office parties", they have "company" picnics, they have incentive programs, etc.,

Wherever people "work", there will be things like this happening. It;s unfortunate that they FILM these things. Just have the parties/etc and move on..

Public sector workers are people too..they are not automatons chained to a PC, in a windowless room.

[Nye Bevan]

19. Give them a fair salary, decent benefits, and job security.

But scrap the free baseball tickets, the "conferences" at expensive resorts, the "team-building meetings" and all the rest of that nonsense. That stuff is a waste of time and money; why should we be paying for it?

[SoCalDem]

22. I agree that it's nonsensical, but there is a LONG tradition of it

and until there are hard & fast guidelines written for and adhered to by workplaces this will continue.

the problem is that every time one of these things comes to light, everyone pays attention to it for a while, and then down the line it happens again..

I remember being told once by a bank veep (where I worked) than we would not get raises because .. (paraphrasing) they just installed a new AC system and repaved the parking lot for us, and we should be happy to have such a pleasant work atmosphere..and they started letting the "gals" wear slacks to work....

[SlimJimmy]

31. I won't tell you what part of the government I work for, but I can tell you with certainty that we

haven't had an off site conference in over five years. Everything is done either locally or through telconference. Much cheaper, and to be frank, more gets done.

[Skittles]

130. we haven't had that shit in YEARS

WAKE UP!!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. What is the percentage of their total budget

Or training videos? I wish mst companies were that efficient, but it is less than one percent in their total budget.

And you know what? The IRS doing a trek video is not worrisome, a nuclear station doing it...

Issa is using this to distract, and the media dutifully is swallowing it

[SlimJimmy]

34. So what *training value* did the Star Trek video have? In my view, Zero. (nt)

[emulatorloo]

126. Have you seen it?

Or any follow up studies on its effectiveness as a training tool?

I haven't either.

[SlimJimmy]

143. Yes, I have. It's on Youtube if you'd like to see it. I will repeat my assertion,

Zero training value for the approximately 60k it took to produce it.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/irs-under-fire-60k-star-trek-spoofed-training-vide/nX9b3/

[Democracyinkind]

30. As if anyone who works in an office would ever agree to

consent to just get rid of meetings... It's one of the few things that makes it bearable... If you're not ready to live without all that stuff at your private workplace, why should government employees be? Setting such ridiculous standards as "no additional benefits to governmental office jobs" makes gov-office jobs uncompetitive.

[hrmjustin]

32. I don't know how much they spent on it but it looks like the dumbest video in all of creation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Minimal, it's a training video

Heck, the San Onofre Plant had one too...I worry about that idiocy at a nuclear station. But as part of the total budget this is in the decimal points of the budget.

It is an Issa distraction.

[hrmjustin]

56. As Issa loves to do.

[Capt. Obvious]

33. Well, if CNN is reporting that

that would be of great concern to me as well.

Great concern.

[darkangel218]

35. Who cares whos reporting it, its obviously true.

Do you agree with this kind of silly spendings?

[Capt. Obvious]

37. Anything said about the IRS has to be true

and it's a huge issue that should concern all of us.

All of us.

[NYC_SKP]

59. And even if it's overblown, it's newsworthy and a bullshit expense.

I don't know why some of the "wiser than though" members here are shitting on your post.

I pay fucking $1378 every goddam month for COBRA health care for ONE PERSON and I'm not happy with any government waste whatsoever.

Fuck em, darkangel218.

This place is full of bullies.

[darkangel218]

63. They dont get to me :)

[CreekDog]

42. IBSD

In Before Self Delete.

[NYC_SKP]

45. It's a very nice day outside, CreekDog....

Let's go for a walk and leave this nice person alone, OK?

[CreekDog]

49. as soon as you apologize to Robb for telling him to F- off and for calling him a dick

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2642032

[NYC_SKP]

54. Oh never mind.

Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2013, 01:42 PM - Edit history (1)

Can't take a little ribbing.

I'll self delete if you want.

[CreekDog]

60. You called him one in your profile and are now trying to make it go away

this was last Tuesday and you had the good sense to change it AFTER I saw it and called you on it.

and nobody expects you to apologize. there's only one person on DU that you'll apologize to and it's not someone you've called a d--- or told to F--- off in your profile.

NYC_SKP
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=221412

Profile information
About NYC_SKP

Totally surprise at what a dick Robb turned out to be. Every other moderator except one psycho is the very best. Fuck you, Robb.
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Jury
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[NYC_SKP]

68. Please disregard...

Last edited Mon Jun 3, 2013, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

Bad joke, my bad.

[NealK]

99. HTLML?

It sounds so 1990s.

[darkangel218]

50. He just send me a private email asking me why do i alwats self delete

Lol!! Obviously his aversion can't just stay in the gungeon

[CreekDog]

52. and you said you don't self delete that much

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2642032

[darkangel218]

53. I said i self delete private posts.

You have issues.


BTW, don't message me anymore. I'm not interested in your attacks, it only shows what kind of person you are.

[darkangel218]

61. Lol, the weather is beautiful outside, CreekDog. Go for a stroll :)

In case you didn't know, META is gone

[CreekDog]

62. I just said IBSD

it's a fair thing to post.

if you can post F--- you who don't support our country yesterday, I can post in before self delete before you self delete.

[darkangel218]

66. Take it with the administrators then.

Your posts are nothing but personal attack, nothing to do with my OP.

[NealK]

100. Yeah, me too.

He asked me why do i alwats self delete. Of course I didn't reply since I had no idea what he meant.

[darkangel218]

103. What the hell??

[darkangel218]

104. Wait, you were being sarcastic

Since you coppied my typo.

Lol, I see what you're doing. Bye bye

[siligut]

48. It's Monday morning, this won't be a morning-after surprise

Though falling for GOP media manipulation may be humiliating.

[darkangel218]

55. So you are saying we shouldnt believe the IRS spendings

On useless entertainment? What am I missing?

[siligut]

84. You are missing that all organizations misspend

Good god, investigate any government agency and you are going to find things like this. However, this is only news now because the GOP thinks it will benefit them.

[darkangel218]

86. So they all need to stop doing it.

Just because they all overspend , its no excuse to allow it to go on. I'm glad they're looking into it, it has to start somewhere.

[siligut]

89. Well, just get all those other organizations to rile the teabagger Kochs

And you will get more investigations and publicized revelations. In the meantime, let the IRS do its job.

[darkangel218]

91. What does the IRS abusing their funding have to do with the Kochs brothers?

As a taxpayer I have the right to question what they spend their funds on, am I not? Why ignore the problem and concentrate in the Rws? Nothing to do with the right wing, its something that's hurting the needy and needs to be corrected. Do you think the right wingers are gonna suffer when we spend our money on spoof videos? You know who's going to suffer? The poor who are barelly hanging on.

[siligut]

93. Stop watching CNN, you are reacting exactly how they want you to

Nothing has changed in the IRS, it is the media attention that they are getting because of their investigation of the teabaggers that has you riled. The Kochs are more a problem for the poor than the IRS will ever be.

[darkangel218]

94. I agree the Kochs are more of a problem, but there is that much we can do about that

Is like telling someone who drinks or gambles their paycheck to keep doing it, because it wasn't that much money to begin with.

[siligut]

95. I agree, telling someone who drinks and gambles their paycheck not to worry is dumb

But seriously, I want you to see the bigger picture here. I think perhaps your concern about money is what has you focused on this IRS story. I understand that money can be a big concern.

But, the bigger picture and what we should be addressing on a political discussion board is that the stories about the IRS currently in the media are the GOP's attempt to slander and discredit them in order to derail their investigation.

It seems that the CNN story stirred up money concerns for you, hit you in a weak spot, which it was intended to do to anyone watching. So people will demonize the IRS and its investigation of the teabaggers.

[darkangel218]

97. I have not one bit of intent to demonize IRS.

The curruption and ill spending doesn't equal the whole organization.

I just hope this kind of misspending will be adressed and stopped.

[siligut]

98. Good, we agree

[maddezmom]

69. Perfect

[HangOnKids]

112. BaZingA!

On another note, this is getting pretty tedious isn't it?

[brewens]

67. I think it's old news but I'd be pissed if my blood center was doing that. As a not for profit

I'd know that was money that could have been part of my (sometimes) modest bonus. I've had major issues with some training that was going on at the center regardless. One employee in particular that wasn't getting the job done. What was the point of the monthly training day they went to at our HQ if we never saw any results? It went on forever before that person finally retired.

[Enrique]

70. and how many millions will Congress spend investigating this?

did you know that Congressional investigations cost money? All those assholes don't work for free.

[darkangel218]

72. If they hadnt overspent there wouldnt be an investigation, would it

[maddezmom]

76. If they didn't go over budget they didn't overspend

Was it frivolous maybe so but this shit is being pushed by the GOP/Issa to show how low down rotten the IRS is because of the tea party nonsense.

[darkangel218]

80. I swear i didnt even know about this until few hours ago from CNN

I don't care who pushed this, but money wasted on entertainment when homeless and vets are suffering is ridiculous. I'm only stating my view, obviously you don't have to agree with me. I work in an environment where I encounter starving, dehydrated people on daily basis. I wish I could help , but there is only that much I can do. It's just shocking to me that any fed agency would do such things.

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Yes, yes there is

You are talking Darell Issa for god sakes

[Enrique]

79. you have much more faith in this Worst Congress Ever than I do

they dig up this nonsense and call it "overspending", and the CNN morons swallow it whole, and you swallow it whole, and then come here and expect us to? Good luck with that.

[darkangel218]

82. Okay, i dont blindly endorse CNN or any other news outlet

I posted this OP because I was sincerely surprised/shocked at what the IRS was wasting money on. I know other federal agencies were found to waste even more money, but that doesn't make this instance not important. I personally have respected and still respect the IRS, I hope they get rid of the coruption.

[William769]

73. To go where no tax has gone before. nt

[msanthrope]

141. It's a five-year mission, I'm told. nt

[Lint Head]

81. I worked for a major corporation who would do videos for conferences and such, but they never

spent $50,000 or anywhere near it. The videos were about business and some times there would be a little acting to demonstrate a point. We had a federal contract and was audited quarterly by Treasury officials. Most videos were done in house by the public relations department using a video camera owned by the company. The problem is that the IRS is not a privately owned corporation using corporate money. The had to use our taxes for this.

[librechik]

83. Republicans: We're scamming the IRS for tax free status? Well look wat the IRS Does!

the tide was turning re the Repub accusations against the IRS for "targeting" conservative organizations. More and more folks were saying, "wait a second, it looks like those Tea Party groups deserved scrutiny!"

So the plumbers went out to start the counter leaks. Talk about Nixonian.

But it's the IRS. Everybody hates the IRS. And they obviously misbehaved.

Oh, and BTW, since Repubs have been blocking all Obama appointments, the IRS is mostly Bush appointments and hires. Yeah, they're good at that sort of switcheroo as well.

It's disgusting. Decency and truth get lost in the confusion.

[Tippy]

90. I would venture to say all Gov. Agencies

Do much of the same..it has been going on for years..every once in a while someone goes over board and wha twe are seing today is the results..they do't view this as something wrong...they think this is a perk and it's owed to them...this is no diferent than the outragious salaries and bonusus people get...

What makes this different is They wanted to get Obama...for something..anything so they ae out there throwning as much shit as they can gather hoping something sticks...

[haele]

92. I had no problems with the lunch sing along team exercises they showed before -

That's just team building corporate practice, and, honestly, $6K is not much to spend on a office once a year for team building - especially if you're looking at reducing turn-over and mitigating employee isolation/poor morale in an office that serves the public. There does have to be some sort of employee maintenance effort because working for the government does not mean you should be treated like a disposable drone/slave during your working hours.
You do want a workforce that wants to work for the government, who feel like they're accomplishing something important - and sometimes that means footing the bill for a bit of lunchtime silliness or a monthly office birthday lunch to keep the employees more inclined to feel appreciated for doing the job for the public than sitting around wondering how quickly they can leave.

Okay, $50K for a Star Trek spoof and government paper-pushers acting like they're Division VPs of major companies instead of managers of public service divisions on the public dime rather than the shareholder's dime...even as Mid-level corporations can spend double that than that a quarter on various PR and "good morale" projects per corporate office without blinking and call such activities "necessary workforce investments".
Sounds like the IRS, just as the DOI, GAO and all the other congressional/executive administrative agencies, just following the Republican "run government like a business" culture that has invaded DC since the Reagan era. Cut the deficit, but keep the non-essential executive perks.
I guess what makes this whole issue truly scandalous is that these IRS officials are only making up to $200K/$300K a year and don't have access to stock options and massive bonuses for "cost cutting" - unlike their business-world counterparts - such as a Regent/Trustee at a State University or the Jr. VP/CFO for the Eastern Pacific/Northern Hemisphere operations at GE might get - and s/he probably could pull down a cool million a year. They're not making enough - their portfolio is not worth enough - to be treated nicely, no matter what or how well they are actually doing.

In case I have to let people know, the above couple paragraphs are pretty much cynical sarcasm.

From my experience working in the government, $50K (in today's dollars) for one "morale/team building event" is excessive, even if it's done as part of a conference. $50K is usually the max that any specific district is given for that type of budget line item. And there is a government rate for officials on travel; if the IRS officials were staying at a $1500 a night room, the government will not pay for anything over the government rate unless there were no other rooms within the area available, so the taxpayer was only footing up to $350 a night, and the official was footing the rest of the bill. I wouldn't be concerned at all at the $1500 a night room; this was an official, and s/he might have also included something like an anniversary vacation with a required working, conference or training event.
An official making $250K a year should be able to save up, knowing s/he is going to have to travel to DC for a scheduled three-day work conference/event, so s/he can pay for the spouse to come out and they can stay at a ritzy hotel presidential suite for a week, take two/three days vacation after the event, and come back to work the following Monday without comment from the taxpayer - who is also paying for the vacation time that government official is allowed to take from time to time. Just as any other employee is allowed to do, from the lowliest file clerk/cafeteria worker to the President of the United States.

There is an underlying issue here - and that is the culture of excessive "meritocracy" verging on plutocracy that has invaded management levels in both business and public service.
That instead of a service, or a lifetime investment, work and enterprise is a now financial competition - the employee is a business statistic, not a living, breathing entity that has a mind and motivation of it's own.
Instead of understanding that there are very few management or leadership positions needed and that most people will simply work for a comfortable, secure living and hopefully retire in equivalent comfort(my idea of winning!), that hard work is a sport by which a few become champions and all other people are worthless losers.
Somehow by being lucky enough, sycophantic enough, or quick enough to catch the few opportunities to make it "to the top" that your other equally hard working or harder working cohorts were not able to catch in time, you deserve all the perks, up to and including the lamentation of your enemies.
And sadly, the taxpayers and those who benefit via paycheck from the government are now apparently on competing teams -even though in most cases, they are the very same person. That's not a recipe for success for anyone but a very few.


Haele

[Egalitarian Thug]

96. ...and they turned me into a newt! n/t

[Iggo]

107. ...okay, we did the nose.(n/t)

[NealK]

101. What is a star treck?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

102. Where did this mentality come from?

Just because you're on the left doesn't mean you have to defend every action by a government agency. We should be fighting for a more effective efficient government and this shit doesn't help our cause. I'm a proud social democrat but I'm not going to support the government class grifting anymore than I will the major corporations.

[Iggo]

106. DU scoops CNN by 10 weeks.

Yay-uh.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017107694

[maddezmom]

117. Yup, just more proof that CNN is continuing to carry the water for the GOP and Issa

By recycling this story and making it seem like some sort of a new story.

[darkangel218]

122. Well, is the first i heard it.

Not all of us can get the news every day.

[emulatorloo]

127. Why not? That's why God invented the internets.

[Iggo]

160. Yeah, but CNN does.

They knew it was an old story before they sold it to you.

[darkangel218]

164. "sold" it to me?

What did they sell exactly? Are you sugesting CNN made this up?

And its completely irrelevant how long ago it was first presented, time doesn't turn facts into lies.

[Iggo]

165. No.

[darkangel218]

166. LOL!

[hootinholler]

123. Please tell me that's where the Jedi Mind Meld came from. n/t

[DJ13]

128. IM OUTRAGED! PISSED! MAD AS HELL!

SQUIRREL!

[darkangel218]

131. lol!

[SlimJimmy]

146. That's one of my all time favorite lines from a movie ... Squirrel !! (nt)

[dembotoz]

137. how much does a luxury box cost at a major league stadium????

las vegas is a major convention center is the us--but all those execs stay in pup tents in the hotel parking lots

the videos and room rates will not raise an eyebrow in private industry


a few years ago I worked for Val Pak--the blue envelope direct mail advertising folks--
Every year they would have a convention with training called Coupon University--Bring in most of the sales staff from all the franchises, stick em in a pretty nice hotel--feed em , entertain em and train the shit out of em.
was coupon u expensive for val pak--bet it was--would they have done a silly star trek spoof--prob yes it they had thought of it. At the awards banquet could they have served army surplus mre's???? maybe if they had better insurance???
What did Val Pak get out of it? Some rather intensive sales training and new product introductions. Learned stuff I still use.
They got their moneys worth

perhaps the irs did as well

[nadinbrzezinski]

171. And this is the truth on this so called scandal.

Page 16

“The Deputy Commissioner, SB/SE Division, stayed five nights in a two-bedroom Presidential Suite at the Hilton. The IRS paid the standard per diem rate of $135 per night for the room which would have normally cost guests $1,499 per night during a four night stay.”

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/06/04/tigta.irs.pdf

So, yes, it was a $1500 room. But the IRS only paid $135!

Awesome find, dkf! This absolutely blows the lid off the GOP bullshit and makes the IRS look like the greatest stewards of money the taxpayer could ever find!


I almost stopped at page 1 when I saw the total cost $4.1M and number of attendees 2,609. Divide one by the other, you have roughly $1500. So I was guessing they took the week long $1500 per attendee cost and called it the room price. Which would have been bullshit in and of itself. I am so glad I continued to page 16 where it lays out in crystal clear black and white and the "$1500 per night" claim is such a bald-faced lie.

I am quoting Iojeta, who has done what I need to do this afternoon.

[darkangel218]

174. Read this:

"The conference spending included $4 million for an August 2010 gathering in Anaheim, Calif., for which the agency did not negotiate lower room rates, even though that is standard government practice, according to a statement by the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee.

Instead, some of the 2,600 attendees received benefits, including baseball tickets and stays in presidential suites that normally cost $1,500 to $3,500 per night. In addition, 15 outside speakers were paid a total of $135,000 in fees, with one paid $17,000 to talk about "leadership through art," the House committee said."

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/03/18718103-report-irs-spent-50m-holding-220-employee-conferences-over-three-years?lite

"The agency did NOT negotiate lower rates"
Of course not, we are such a wealthy, prosperous country who cares for $1500 a week hotel rooms!! We have so much money to waste!!! Bwahahahahaha!!!
Wait, what are you saying?? Some homeless guy is passing out because he didn't eat for 3 days?? Why are you bothering me with that Steve? Bring me the caviar!!!

[Erose999]

172. They should have spent that 50k investigating and prosecuting T-bagger groups.