Baby boomers are killing themselves at an alarming rate, raising question: Why?

[HiPointDem]

Last spring, Frank Turkaly tried to kill himself. A retiree in a Pittsburgh suburb living on disability checks, he was estranged from friends and family, mired in credit card debt and taking medication for depression, cholesterol, diabetes and high blood pressure.

It was not the life he had envisioned as a young man in the 1960s and ’70s, when “people were more in tune with each other, people were more prone to help each other,” said Turkaly, 63, who owned a camera shop and later worked at Sears. “There was not this big segregation between the poor and the rich. .?.?. I thought it was going to continue the same, I didn’t think it was going to change.”

Turkaly said he regrets his attempt to overdose on tranquilizers, which he attributes to social isolation. But in one grim respect he is far from alone: He is part of an alarming trend among baby boomers, whose suicide rates shot up precipitously between 1999 and 2010.

It has long held true that elderly people have higher suicide rates than the overall population. But numbers released in May by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show a dramatic spike in suicides among middle-aged people, with the highest increases among men in their 50s, whose rate went up by nearly 50 percent to 30 per 100,000; and women in their early 60s, whose rate rose by nearly 60 percent (though it is still relatively low compared with men, at 7 in 100,000). The highest rates were among white and Native American and Alaskan men. In recent years, deaths by suicide has surpassed deaths by motor vehicle crashes.

There are no large-scale studies yet fleshing out the reasons behind the increase in boomer suicides. Part of it is likely tied to the recent economic downturn — financial recessions are in general associated with an uptick in suicides. But the trend started a decade before the 2008 recession, and psychologists and academics say it likely stems from a complex matrix of issues...

Perhaps a little more adversity in youth could have helped prepare them for the inevitable indignities of aging, Knight suggested, adding that “the earlier-born cohorts are sort of tougher in the face of stress.” Despite the hardships of life in the first half of the 20th century, he said, older generations didn’t have the same kind of concept of being stressed out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/baby-boomers-are-killing-themselves-at-an-alarming-rate-begging-question-why/2013/06/03/d98acc7a-c41f-11e2-8c3b-0b5e9247e8ca_story.html


It's probably true that the previous generation is 'tougher,' because they were young during the Depression & war: that was their formative experience, and they aged into unexpected abundance.

It's the reverse for the boomers. but the article is written, as per usual, to kind of elide the real issues in those facts. it's not really about the 'inevitable indignities of old age'. it's about aging in an era when all the supports that make those indignities tolerable are being removed one by one.

[napoleon_in_rags]

1. There are may psychological studies that point to the relative nature of wealth.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinsights/2012/11/26/money-on-the-mind-the-psychology-of-pay-and-incentives/

That's one example, but I've seen others. The point is, being the $12 an hour guy in $5 a day poor country is likely to make one happy, while being the $12 an hour guy in a $60 an hour culture will make one depressed. These people are being forced, at this point, into situations not only seemingly lower than peers, but lower than what they experienced their whole lives. That's a huge fall.

I'm all for the cultural rebellion against it all, all the money awareness. I've had the great pleasure of meeting a few 60 year olds out drinking harder than the rest at some parties, and I think their doing it right. To the rest of them: Remember that hippy stuff you once gave up? That was a mistake. Giving it up, I mean. Its time for fogey parties, for community, for love on all our parts. We need bring these people out, make them part of a community, remind them that its hugs and good times that matter, not money.

Peace!

[TreasonousBastard]

2. It's not just wealth-- it's feeling alone and useless...

and our dreams and expectations are shot to hell.

I remember a day when I had a job downtown with an apartment close by and a summer house on Long Island. My opinion on things was worth something, and I felt I contributed to the business, life, and everything else.

Now, I'm not as bad off as some are, but I'm barely surviving on SS and whatever work I can dig up. I still volunteer and contribute whatever I can but the day when I'm unable to do even that is coming fast and I don't see anything getting better.

But, to whatever extent I can I just try to ignore all that and am thankful my health isn't too bad (barely controlled diabetes and some high blood pressure) and that I have hobbies, interests, and some worthwhile work to do. I'm even running for local office. But, energy levels aren't what they used to be and aren't getting any better.

Money helps, but mainly I see a lot of other old farts around here who, like me but often with better results, just refuse to admit their age and keep on truckin' as long as they can. Others rot in depression because whatever gave their lives meaning, usually a job, is gone. We don't see them much-- they don't get out very often.

There will be a day when my faculties are far gone and I'm waiting for someone to pay someone to feed me and wipe my ass and I, too, might think of ending it all.

[napoleon_in_rags]

4. The thing that strikes me in your description is the tie between self-worth and work for some.

That one thing I think should be shot down. I'd like to see older people part of a community, regardless of how much or little they are making. I'd like to see things get back to those old hippy/Christian values of human worth being something beyond wealth.

As far as you choosing your exit point, I respect that. But it should be because of REAL physical issues, not because of social isolation, or a self concept that's so rooted in money you don't understand what an amazing light you can be to people just by being yourself in their company. That's what I think is happening too often these days: people forget that they have things to offer beyond work, just by being part of a community.

PEace.

[NJCher]

5. self-worth, work, mission, and just being

I like what you have to say. We are so much more than work, yet we are accultured to define ourselves by our work. I'm the first one to do that, yet I realize what a mistake it is.

However, for some people, work is their "mission," as in mission in life. They are people who define their own work and who do not just take some pre-fab job that's offered in the marketplace. I'm thinking of a Noam Chomsky-type of person. There are certain professions that attract those types of people, among them the medical and teaching professions. Lawyers who are into social justice. These people have a mission and they will probably keep at it until their faculties decline to the point that they simply cannot continue.

I once knew a guy who fixed buses and truly enjoyed what he did. He recognized the importance of his work and would sometimes would make comments that made me think he saw the bigger picture. His gift of understanding how things worked made it possible for the rest of us to go about our business.

Something else you said that I really like is "what an amazing light you can be to people just by being yourself in their company." Just being, the value of just being. We don't teach that in this messed up society we have.

I wonder how or if the native American Indians taught that. Anyone know?


Cher

[HiPointDem]

6. "We don't teach that" because it's not true. If it were, it wouldn't have to be 'taught'.

we absorb the values of our culture without direct teaching, and they create our individual selves.

People *know* if they are valued or not without being taught. The fact is, life is cheap unless you have something to sell.

[carla]

68. Sorry, HPD, but I strongly dissent from your view.

Life is not cheap UNLESS you think that money matters more.
My perception is that life remains the most valuable thing we have, and others represent, at minimum, an insurance against life's slings and arrows and at best true friendship and love. If we choose to see this, we can de-emphasize the materialistic valuation of humanity and begin to be able to extract the incredible richness that is human being. This would offer social space for human creativity, for instance. Instead of fearing change, we could then embrace it with a passion. If we dumb down our world, we will become the dumb we allowed. So I suggest that we begin to add value to our lives by respecting what others bring to our lives, be it love or wealth or knowledge and emphasizing this in our relations with others. How you choose to follow this advice is entirely up to you, but I think it would help dispel your feeling that life is cheap and might make your world a happier place still.

[HiPointDem]

70. in actual practice, life is cheap. fact. it's not a question of how we see it, it's a question of

how society behaves.

[davekriss]

89. "If you can't make money, make friends."

Henry Miller wrote that somewhere. There's more truth in his words than yours.

Life is not "cheap" unless we "have something to sell". I presume you mean "sell" in the cash nexus. Wall Street and Madison Avenue would have you believe that. We are nothing, they would say, unless we can buy a more expensive car, a larger home, trips to exotic locales. But they are wrong, we are always something, and that something can be celebratory when we simply engage with friends.

Bang on a pickle barrel, sing out of tune, drink Ripple until we drop - it can be a moment valued by any gathering of real friends!

[HiPointDem]

95. life *is* cheap. 4000 americans killed over a lie = just one data point.

[davekriss]

97. No, life is precious and vanishes in an instant

Henry Miller also wrote that we need to take our pleasure while we can. Because it IS brief, life, and can end so easily. That does *not* make it "cheap".

However, if you are arguing that some with their hands on power view it as "cheap", then I can agree. GHWB is alleged to have labelled the 47% "cannon fodder" and Dick Cheney, "useless eaters". To them, life -- other than their own -- is cheap indeed.

[HiPointDem]

98. you're not getting my point. you're talking 'should be'. i'm talking *is*. the fact *is* that

life *is* cheap, and people's lives are tossed away and destroyed on a daily basis for lies and power, apathy, etc.

the fact is that regardless of pieties mouthed, those lives are cheap, otherwise people would not allow them to be wasted, used and abused the way they are.

the fact is that people learn this truth through their interactions with the world, and incorporate it into their behavior.

the fact is, you can tell people 'life is valuable' a million times, but what they experience in their interactions with society is a much more powerful teaching.

it's not only 'some with power' who act out the truth that life is cheap. it's *most people,* to greater or lesser degrees.

[napoleon_in_rags]

8. Tales of the elders.

Nature has its own rules. If elders weren't useful to the whole, they would die at a younger age, being unable to breed. Yet they exist, so in nature's plan they have value.

The issue is, that a very very small percent of workers at most of the places Americans go to all the time - Walmart, fast food restaurants, gas stations, feel that they are doing their life's work. Yet demand dictates a large percent of the population staff these places. Many seniors, trying to make ends meet, find themselves at places like these. In fact we live in a culture where the Noam Chomsky's are the rare, rare, exception. Their fame and exceptional circumstances almost makes a mockery of the social justice they are trying to achieve.

We project our egos into celebrities - intellectual ones like Chomsky, media ones like Maddow or Hartmann, political ones like Sanders. But this projection is a temporary relief, an opiate to distract us from the condition of our lives, which takes a far more radical adjustment than any one celebrity/politician can provide. The real battle of liberation is one to free our minds, and find ourselves the stars of our own existence just as Chomsky and the rest do, even if we are working as a greeter at wal-mart, and even if that rock stardom happens with friends after hours at the country bar down the road, rather than between the clock-in and clock-out times at work.

PEace!

[OneGrassRoot]

20. We need to write new stories...the old story is killing us.

Our values and priorities are literally killing us and the planet.

I'm going to start leading conversations on precisely this point, and how we can shift to a Caring Economy by evaluating our values and priorities as individuals, as communities, as citizens.

I appreciate this conversation.

[napoleon_in_rags]

21. +1. The world needs you, doing just that. nt

[kelliekat44]

39. Totally high drug use. Believe it or not at your own peril. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. When most people are asked at a party "So, what are you?" They respond with a job title.

It's nice to be able to get some measure of personal fulfillment from a job, but one shouldn't depend on it.

My advice to my kids is; save 20% of your income, forever. At some point they'll get disillusioned with the rat race and it's best to have options.

Recommended reading: "your money or your life" by Vicki Robin

[Skidmore]

16. The problem is the "how little they are making" that leads to all sorts of

problems with self-worth, depression, poverty, and isolation. It is compounded by the constant drum of the "why don't you just die" crowd. When wealth is the guiding light for the society in which you live, not many are looking for the light of your spirit. I am struggling with this now. I lost a good job in 2007 at the same time I was diagnosed with cancer. After taking time to undergo treatment and recuperate, I attended a junior college to gain additional skills and certification in another area since the job market for my original training dried up. I already held a Master's degree in my field. Since obtaining an AA in a new area, I was able to work an unpaid internship and a brief stint as a temp in that field.

A couple of nights ago, I had vivid nightmares about finding myself with nothing and alone, utterly alone, and finding people around me staring at me with looks of contempt which conveyed to me that I was a problem for them. It is hard not to internalize the subtle and not so subtle messages that your entire nation is sending you. I'm tired of being bombarded with the mockery and disrespect of whole industries, the youth, and those of my own generation who have real wealth. Your worth is tied to your ability to contribute. The biggest disservice this nation has done the elderly is to foist the notion that the nuclear family is the only acceptable unit and to sell the notions that people need to try to live forever even if it means being warehoused for profit.

[napoleon_in_rags]

23. Right.

I have been given a very humble path, caring for people with disabilities, for the elderly, etc. It doesn't pay much, but deep within is a powerful lesson, that makes me feel blessed for having been put on this path:

God, nature, whatever always gives a society a group of people who are disabled, even when evolution could have made this not the case. I have come to realize over time that its not them who need us, its us who need them. Caring for others heals us, it empowers us.

The illusion is that it doesn't. The illusion, in your dream, is that all those people, are other than you, that they won't find themselves in the same situation, when they will. The illusion is that deep inside, they don't know this to be true.

But they do know it. We all know it. So caring for others bridges a gap between our present selves and our future selves. It establishes a timelessness of being that those who don't partake will never know.

You and I both know that the core of the situation right now is that this society, this culture, is deeply, deeply sick. All this shit is a direct manifestation of that fundamental fact. You - hell, almost anyone - can FEEL it in your bones: It isn't supposed to be this way. So all the cultural indoctrination, all the things you've been told are right, we know these go out the window. The question is, what IS right? What did you see, what did you know - in your youth or now - that went against the grain, but what shut down by the BS machine? THAT was right. THAT alone was right. That's your light.

What I'm trying to get at is the idea that we've gone way, way off course. But those of us who can see that are needed a great deal, because they have the general idea of where the right course is, that we fell off of decades ago. This information needs to be heard.

PEace

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. I think this is largely true.

Nothing else could account for the fact that although the wages for caring for the disabled are terrible, we all still show up every morning.

This is an excellent thread.

[enlightenment]

101. You might want to ask older people if they

are as blithely unconcerned with how much or little they are making.

Unless that community they are supposed to be giving to is prepared to support them, they do have to be concerned - because they sure as hell can't survive on the "amazing light" they can be to others.

[napoleon_in_rags]

125. You know this thread is about suicide, right?

I'd say people are concerned enough already, as evidenced by the constant stream of suicides. I'm trying to identify alternative ways of looking at things.

[chervilant]

79. I find that my volunteerism helps me feel

connected, as though I am giving back to the universe. I volunteer primarily with children, teaching art or helping them with higher level maths.

That being said, I have my Kevorkian option planned, and I WILL elect to leave this body before I am cognitively or physically incapable of caring for myself.

From one of my first OPs:

This awesome Universe sustains me as I move inexorably toward my final days. The Ozarks are breathtakingly beautiful. I've seen TONS of Luna moths and bluebirds and titmice and meadowlarks in the last three months.

I couldn't agree more with your post. Kubler-Ross helped me get past my 'fascination' with death, the inevitable transition for us all.

Going out on my own time, in my own way, feels like an indignity only because my departure has been needlessly hastened by the vile and hedonistic handful of sociopaths who are destroying our species and our ecosystem.

I suppose I should be thankful that they cannot irretrievably damage our planet.

[Warpy]

104. People desperately need to develop interests and friends outside work

which is getting harder and harder to do as they've changed the nature of work to "in the office 60 hours a week, on call the rest of the time." I think these years will be looked back on in a more enlightened culture as the absolute nadir of labor, worse than the age of the Robber Barons because at least those underpaid workers got to go home without the fear of having some asshole disturb them about work in their down time.

Something has got to give and it will give, probably violently, before any of this improves.

Until then, people will blame themselves for being exploited in the workplace, underpaid, and with nothing but a bleak future of slow starvation to look forward to when some bean counter throws them out of work and hires a fresh faced kid to pay even less for a training period that will somehow never end. As they blame themselves for bad government policy of depressing wages and killing the future, they will have no recourse except to end it, whether by gun, rope, or cop chase.

I've been very, very close in the last few years.

[caseymoz]

14. Disparities in wealth and self-worth are only part of it.

I've been under treatment for depression for years. What I tell my psychiatrist and counselor now is that prospects for the entire world depress me.

I grew up reading science fiction and had an optimism about the future. I had a negative self-worth, but I had optimism that the world itself would improve. I mean, we had put people on the moon, we had that energy crisis, but fusion energy would come along, the problems with nuclear energy had not become so explicit, at least not with me. When global warming was first hitting the news, it seemed that could be handled. Nationally. We had just had Vietnam, but seemed our nation had learned its lesson from that. There was the Cold War, but it seemed that would either be worked around or would destroy the world suddenly. Thinking about the future was a matter of the two systems learning to live harmoniously. Racial relations appeared to have nowhere to go but improve. There was certain anti-intellectualism and anti-science undercurrent in this country, but that didn't appear to have any legs. The gap between rich and poor wasn't a chasm. The military industrial complex was a problem, but it seemed to have a cause with national defense, and at least it employed a lot of people in technical positions, and it was a driver behind science.

I look at it today, and it's all worse. And I can trace back the point where it began to become worse to the day we elected Ronald Reagan. Before that, we had the canker of Richard Nixon, but all of the worst people in the Reagan administration had cut their teeth under Nixon.

The optimism, if not the actual prospects became better in the late '90s. Communism was over, and it seemed the world improve. Then the dot com and telecom crashes hit. And if that didn't disillusion my generation enough, George W. Bush was arbitrated President, consequently followed by 9/11, with all of the barbaric and oppressive measures to follow.

And wouldn't you know, they date the uptick in boomer suicides back to about the time of the dotcom crash. I bet it became much worse during Bush's first term.

Now, Global Warming is all but at hand. This culture is not going to move the population into space; in fact, physics has screwed us. Moreover, nothing has fixed the energy problem, and we have corporations running and ruining the planet. Bolshevistic communism has ended, but the military industrial complex has run amok and has turned against us. Moreover, the government spies on us wholesale, and has turned into a system that has to be called fascism in every way except subtlety. The only good thing I could name: the Internet. But that has consequences, because if the government doesn't show restraint (and ours doesn't), it becomes the best surveillance tool in history. Meanwhile, with overpopulation, depletion of resources, global warming, and general degradation of the environment, it's questionable to me that humankind will survive another millennium.

I could go on, but I'll sum up by saying when I graduated high school, this is not the world and the nation I thought I would see in my fifties. Part of it was just bad luck, but a lot of it is we just blew it. I think if I would have known when I was sixteen what I would see now, I probably would have committed suicide then.

It's depressing, even crippling. I keep going through antidepressants, escapism, focusing my attention on problems I can solve, and generally turning my attention away from the big picture when I have to.

[napoleon_in_rags]

17. I wish I could give you a hug. A beer out in the woods. But I won't lie:

Everything you said in that post is 100% correct, and reveals an aware and informed individual.

I guess the question is, now what? What do you do? What should all the kids running around today, with big hopes for the future do? How should they live? What kind of example would you broadcast to them?

Is it time to build them the magical protective tent out of sticks while the situation previous generations engineered comes closing in? I don't think so, I don't think things are that bad, yet. (Good movie though, about the status quo) But we have to at least give them a hint of a way of living that isn't as broken as what has created this current mess. We have to manifest it. We have to find a way to reject in ourselves the bullshit, to give them some hint of a way forward. Maybe its just a smile, and telling them everything about this current world is a lie. I don't know, but we owe them something. Some message that will prevent them from finding themselves in this situation the majority of mature people in this nation are now in.Its about rejecting the lies that have guided us our whole lives at last, its about those moments of inspiration we knew were true in our youth but sold out an gave up on due to the pressures of an "adult" world that we now realize is, was, and always will be completely insane.

PEace

[OneGrassRoot]

22. I would love to have an ongoing conversation about this, napolean_in_rags...

I have so much to say within this thread....but little time this morning.

This entire subject not only hits close to home, personally, it's something I am going to be focusing on by leading conversations regarding a more Caring Economy -- what that would look like and how can we get there -- very soon.

We must re-evaluate our priorities and establish our values, and be mindful of how our choices and actions (and inaction) either support those values or not.

I have always had tremendous faith in humanity. We can do better. We must.

[napoleon_in_rags]

24. Good, I hope you will post more on it.

And PM me the thread, I would love to partake.

It hits close to home, personally for all of us right now. The status quo culture is deeply sick, but we can overcome.

Peace

[Babel_17]

51. The country is wealthier now than it it has ever been

The upcoming generations will, though, have to fight for their share. It's not that the current generations haven't been fighting, it's a matter of the pathologically greedy buying control.

[Laelth]

64. My understanding differs.

I was under the impression that the United States was at its wealthiest in 1973, and that our wealth has been steadily eroding since then.



-Laelth

[Babel_17]

66. I measure wealth by the ability to provide the essentials ... and also luxuries

We can feed everybody with healthy food, we can house everyone in ecologically sound homes, we can provide everyone with the opportunity to be incredibly well educated. We can provide a degree of health care that would be out of the pages of science fiction 40 years ago.

We can provide gourmet foods of incredible variety, we can provide a staggering amount of entertainment and we can provide the electronics to enjoy them on.

I agree that we are poorer in so far that we serve a system that has done away with some of what was customary back in the 70's. But there's no good economic reason for that. We aren't overpopulated, we can produce plenty of energy, we have the water to sustain us.

We lack an electorate that demands sound policies. Our government is enormously influenced by interests that are best served when the population is, on the whole, a little bit desperate.

[Warpy]

107. While we have more glittering ultra rich than other countries

we on the bottom 90% have watched this country slip into third world status as the infrastructure has been left to rot and anyone who fell through the cracks and stayed there long enough was simply ignored to death for want of nutritious food, shelter, and basic medical care.

In other words, this is two countries: one uses private airports like the one in Manassas and stays completely hidden from public view at all times, flitting from mansion to mansion by jet and the other one, where wage depression was public policy along with destroying the safety net and stiffing us on the services we were brought up to expect.

Even my right wing dad said this country was great at creating wealth, just piss poor at distributing it fairly.

Until we solve that problem, we are going to be facing more years of despair and suicides until finally there will be violence. Violent revolutions rarely work like they're supposed to, though, so it will be only our blood which flows through the streets.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

3. Maybe the recent push for anti-depressants could be a factor....

Raise them to expect to get rich through hard work,...work them hard and screw them on pay,...then dope them with something designed to make them not care and then pass out the guns.

[wickerwoman]

12. Or the level of medication generally.

The guy used as an example was on medication for diabetes, high cholestrol and blood pressure and depression. How many studies have really been done on the interactions of all of those drugs (most of which would not had been prescribed to his parents' generation) and their link to suicide risk?

He sounds like he has similar issues to my parents, each of whom takes upwards of 30-40 pills a day for that combination of problems.

I know some anti-depressants have been linked to increased suicidal ideation and it's possible that the effect could be magnified by interactions with other drugs.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

53. I suspect a lot of it is also related to the number of prostate surgeries....

Those are becoming as common as appendix operations. Nothing like going into your 50's in diapers to make your life worth living.

[progree]

7. They aren't that old! To me its stressful to be young, or old old. But 50's is easiest (for me)

"numbers released in May by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention show a dramatic spike in suicides among middle-aged people, with the highest increases among men in their 50s, whose rate went up by nearly 50 percent to 30 per 100,000; and women in their early 60s,

"Perhaps a little more adversity in youth could have helped prepare them for the inevitable indignities of aging, Knight suggested, adding that “the earlier-born cohorts are sort of tougher in the face of stress.”"

Indignities of aging? At 50? At 60? Just wait for the 70's and beyond. Anyway, I'm perplexed that most people would find life tougher in the 50's than say in their 20's, or the really elderly. Compared to other age groups, aren't a higher percentage of 50's year olds earning more, have a higher net worth-- again compared to other age groups? On average doing better?

[diane in sf]

9. I know a lot of under and unemployed people in their 50s and 60s

Due to the horrible corporatist, 1% policies of bush. Some were forced to start collecting SS early just to survive. It's not enough now to live decently and it will be even less in the future.

Add that to low savings, a job market that's almost always been bad and very competitive because of the large numbers of boomers, and you have a pretty good mix of reasons for depression. Plus the corporatist goons keep threatening SS and Medicare.

[SoCalDem]

13. It will get worse for many. Just think about all the people who postponed

having their kids.

A couple who started their family in their 40's, could end up downsized at work, in their mid 50's, with no pension and a couple of pre-teens just as their home equity was washed away.

There is a reason why the highest fertility rates are late teen to -mid twenties. Young parents will undoubtedly be "broker" than older ones, but they are also likely to end up with grown up children as THEY enter their precarious older years..

A family that has teenagers/twenty-somethings saddled with massive college debt will have real trouble ahead for those parents who have been financially harmed by the recent decade's debacles.

[progree]

52. I know its not paradise in the 50's in this economy, what I said was compared to other age groups

Progree>To me its stressful to be young, or old old. But 50's is easiest (for me) Indignities of aging? At 50? At 60? Just wait for the 70's and beyond. Anyway, I'm perplexed that most people would find life tougher in the 50's than say in their 20's, or the really elderly. Compared to other age groups, aren't a higher percentage of 50's year olds earning more, have a higher net worth-- again compared to other age groups? On average doing better? <

[font color=blue]diane> I know a lot of under and unemployed people in their 50s and 60s ... Some were forced to start collecting SS early just to survive. It's not enough now to live decently and it will be even less in the future. Add that to low savings, a job market that's almost always been bad and very competitive because of the large numbers of boomers, and you have a pretty good mix of reasons for depression. Plus the corporatist goons keep threatening SS and Medicare. <[/font]

I emphasized compared to being in one's 20's or being really elderly.

The official unemployment rate in April was 13.1% for 20-24 year olds, 7.4% for 25-34 year olds, 5.9% for 45-54 year olds, and 5.5% for age 55+ (BLS Table A-10, empsit.pdf). We all know the official unemployment rate undercounts, but still, I haven't seen any indicators that say that people in their 50's have it tougher than in their 20's as far as employment.

From surveys I've seen, the younger generation is a lot less confident of receiving Social Security than boomers are.

I think it is REALLY TOUGH for people in their 20's and 30's, 20's especially. (I'm a bit over 60).

[OneGrassRoot]

19. I admit I haven't read the article, nor all the posts...

but your comment drew me in immediately.



I'm glad you are finding 50 easiest.

However, I'm surprised that people are surprised that those in middle age -- especially those in their 50's -- are committing suicide more and more.

I've shared here before about many conversations I've had with people who have AMAZING resumes. They are brilliant, not only in the traditional workforce but running their own companies previously, starting nonprofits, etc.

Now, after years of unemployment or underemployment, inability to get funding for their ventures (most investments in entrepreneurial ventures are going to people under 35), no safety net, social security still too far away, many of us realize the cold, hard truth that we are literally worth more dead than alive.

Sadly, of course, if people are obviously killing themselves, that negates life insurance.

I'd venture to say there are many, many more "accidents" occurring in this age group that weren't accidental.

It's an epidemic. It's awful. It's inhumane that so many who have worked so hard for their entire lives, and are willing to continue to work hard, feel we can't sustain our existence. We don't want to be a burden on anyone.

[winter is coming]

29. Seems like things are very polarized for folks in their 50s.

If you've hung on to a job throughout the crash, life can still be pretty good. If you got laid off, regardless of the reason, it's extremely difficult to get back on the merry-go-round once you've been flung off. Workers in their 50s used to be "experienced". Now, they're just "overqualified".

[OneGrassRoot]

31. Evidently.

It's especially hurtful when people of the same age group don't seem to understand what so many others are (mostly silently) going through because it's vastly different from their own experience.

Even worse are those who look upon you as lazy or having made poor choices, etc., etc., when the system is what failed -- not us.

[progree]

56. I do understand, again, I'm saying the 20-somethings and the really elderly have it worse

[font color=red]winter is coming>> 29. Seems like things are very polarized for folks in their 50s.

If you've hung on to a job throughout the crash, life can still be pretty good. If you got laid off, regardless of the reason, it's extremely difficult to get back on the merry-go-round once you've been flung off. Workers in their 50s used to be "experienced". Now, they're just "overqualified". <<[/font]

[font color=blue]OneGrassRoot>It's especially hurtful when people of the same age group don't seem to understand what so many others are (mostly silently) going through because it's vastly different from their own experience. <[/font]

I do understand, again, I'm saying the 20-somethings and the really elderly have it worse, on average overall.

The official unemployment rate in April was 13.1% for 20-24 year olds, 7.4% for 25-34 year olds, 5.9% for 45-54 year olds, and 5.5% for age 55+ (BLS Table A-10, empsit.pdf). We all know the official unemployment rate undercounts, but still, I haven't seen any indicators that say that people in their 50's have it tougher than in their 20's as far as employment.

I agree with Winter Is Coming that it is especially crummy for those in their 50s who lost their jobs and are trying to find anything comparable, or even anything.

[OneGrassRoot]

61. We're following one another...

LOL.

Just to reiterate my point here, progree, "having it worse" takes much more into account than unemployment statistics, as I tried to convey in another reply here.

Even though unemployment figures seem to indicate people in their 50s have a higher employment rate in general (though I give up on unemployment figures, given how many people drop off after long-term unemployment and just give up and are no longer part of the statistics), HOW THIS IMPACTS THEM EMOTIONALLY is what is significant for this age group, for a variety of reasons.

And, once again, my comments here were also not directed at you at all. It was a general comment about interactions with many people of late.

[Awknid]

118. Try being in the construction field

I know a 57 year old architect who has an impeccable résumé but no job. He's trying hard to not loose faith. A lot of the Boomers problems are caused by the economy. We hope it changes.

[progree]

54. I said 3 times compared to other age groups, particularly those in their 20's and the really elderly

Progree>To me its stressful to be young, or old old. But 50's is easiest (for me) Indignities of aging? At 50? At 60? Just wait for the 70's and beyond. Anyway, I'm perplexed that most people would find life tougher in the 50's than say in their 20's, or the really elderly. Compared to other age groups, aren't a higher percentage of 50's year olds earning more, have a higher net worth-- again compared to other age groups? On average doing better? <

[font color=blue]OneGrassRoot>I'm glad you are finding 50 easiest.

However, I'm surprised that people are surprised that those in middle age -- especially those in their 50's -- are committing suicide more and more. <[/font]

Who is surprised by that. Is there anything I said in my post where I was surprised that people in their 50's are committing suicide more and more than people who were in their 50's 10, 20, 30 years ago? My post was comparing the plight of those in their 50's and 60's TODAY COMPARED TO other age groups TODAY.

[font color=blue]OneGrassRoot>I've shared here before about many conversations I've had with people who have AMAZING resumes. They are brilliant, not only in the traditional workforce but running their own companies previously, starting nonprofits, etc.

Now, after years of unemployment or underemployment, inability to get funding for their ventures (most investments in entrepreneurial ventures are going to people under 35), no safety net, social security still too far away, many of us realize the cold, hard truth that we are literally worth more dead than alive. < [/font]

I emphasized compared to being in one's 20's or being really elderly.

The official unemployment rate in April was 13.1% for 20-24 year olds, 7.4% for 25-34 year olds, 5.9% for 45-54 year olds, and 5.5% for age 55+ (BLS Table A-10, empsit.pdf). We all know the official unemployment rate undercounts, but still, I haven't seen any indicators that say that people in their 50's have it tougher than in their 20's as far as employment.

[OneGrassRoot]

55. I apologize...

When I said, "However, I'm surprised that people are surprised that those in middle age -- especially those in their 50's -- are committing suicide more and more." -- I wasn't referring to you, progree.

I was thinking of the various conversations here and elsewhere recently, where people do express surprise.

My reply wasn't really aimed at you at all, only the "I'm glad you are finding 50 easiest."


It was a general reply about the topic, not specifically targeted at you or what you wrote at all.

My apologies for blurring the lines.

[progree]

57. Thank you. And I'm sorry to be overly sensitive / thinned skinned and all that n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

59. However...

As others have written about elsewhere in the thread, there are specific reasons -- regardless of unemployment statistics -- why people in their 50s are having a harder time, emotionally, than those in their 20's or perhaps those who are 70 and older, for example.

The having it "tougher" aspect takes many things into account beyond the simple under/unemployment statistics.

It takes into account responsibilities, hope for the future, etc.

Assuming someone is physically healthy, generally (and I realize these are merely generalizations and observations), when younger you can have more hope that things will change. You also tend to have more ENERGY to keep trying different things.

When you're 50 and have been struggling for a long time and have worked hard your entire life up until this point, you tend to be tired. I'm talking about people in their 50's who are NOT doing well financially, have no safety net, etc., for a variety of reasons that are not due to poor choices, being extravagant, etc. Medical bankruptcy due to one procedure is one of many examples of what can bring someone to their knees.

The added financial responsibilities of this age group, especially if one has a family, are a factor as well.

Not being close to retirement age really weighs on this age group when you're expected to work, want to work, yet cannot find work and your social security benefits are far, far away still.

[progree]

63. Agreed, the 50's have some special issues

They are supposed to be in their peak earning years, but may very well be working at Home Depot, after having been in corporate management.

They are the sandwich generation people, in that they may be both taking care of physically and financially elderly parents while putting kids through college, or helping the 20-something kids get started in the work world. Or trying to.

[wickerwoman]

67. Yes,

most people in their 20s still have parents or other older family to fall back on. It sucks being 21 or 22 and having a worthless university degree and lots of college debt and no job prospects and having to move back in with your parents.

But by your 50s, most likely either your parents have died or they are old and ill and looking for financial support from you. You may also have college age kids that are depending on your help. Those kinds of pressures and the guilt associated with them can really build up.

Most people expect 20 year olds to be finding their way financially. By your 50s the expectation is that you would have sorted it out and if you haven't that you're a failure. It's also the age where people begin to face their mortality and the first signs of progressive degenerative illnesses start to show up. My dad had to take early retirement at 49 because the neuropathy from his diabetes left him in such excruciating pain he couldn't sleep or sit down for more than 10 minutes at a stretch. So it's not true in many cases that the serious quality-of-life impacting diseases don't show up until your 70s.

Many people who would have simply died in their early 50s of things like heart disease, cancer or diabetes two or three generations ago are being kept alive through medical interventions that compromise their quality of life to the point that they consider suicide.

[Mnemosyne]

10. Little to no hope for the future will do it. nt

[B Calm]

11. Could legal marijuana prevent sucides?

They are using marijuana for a panoply of health issues. Baby boomers looking for stress relief need to stay away from the alcohol and pharmaceuticals and get back to what they know works!

[Elmergantry]

15. No generation ever had it so good.

And yet...

[Fumesucker]

26. Eh, I don't know of another generation that sheltered under their desks from nuclear bombs

Pat Frank wrote Alas Babylon in 1959, I think I read it the next year when I was ten.

Dr Strangelove, On The Beach, these were some of the uplifting movies of our era, if you consider being vapor in a mushroom cloud as uplifting.

[raccoon]

32. Thank you. And while the economy for many people was good as the boomers grew up, it

wasn't that way for everyone. Not for most non-whites, and widowed or divorced mothers.

[MindPilot]

36. I'm glad you jumped on that bullshit post.

Thank you. The comment in the article that made me just stop reading was "Perhaps a little more adversity in youth could have helped prepare them for the inevitable indignities of aging"

Oh, yes we have all led such coddled lives, and now that things are no longer chocolates and unicorn farts boomers are losing it.

Fuck that generation-bashing attitude.

[Elmergantry]

50. I just have to remember my Dads childhood

to know how good the suceeding generations had it.

lived in a chicken coop, barn, and a house that consisted of just the basement

No shoes

When he did get shoes, as the one room schoolhouse was next door, gramps would watch to be sure he didnt play at recess lest he wear them out.

bent up finger as they couldnt spare another chicken as barter to get it reset again.

He wasnt alone

So yeah, perhaps I am a little biased when I hear generally well-off baby boomers whine.

[Skidmore]

60. Exactly how do you think most of us lived during the 50s?

And into the 1960s, for that matter. You do realize that our parents grew up in the Depression years and lived in deprivation during the great war. If there are boomers who are well off, chances are they earned it through work. What do you think the world was like for us, especially in rural areas? I don't know about the veracity of your tale, but I do know the text of my own history and those in the community I grew up in. It was not easy. Not everyone had cars or indoor plumbing. Not everyone did more than blue collar work. A college education was not just a right of passage. Either you are incredibly young or you are engaging in full on snark. If it is the first, educate yourself about the history of the society you live in. If it is the latter, surely you can occupy yourself more constructively.

[Elmergantry]

62. Well what I am trying to say is

The baby boomer generation as a whole (obviously not everyone as you illustrated) prospered better than any generation before it. You would think they would be one of the more "content" generations in their "old age" and not offing themselves in high numbers. But then again, perhaps this only illustrates the belief that material things dont buy happiness...


For me, whenever I start feeling sorry for myself I just think of those before me like my Father, or some poor soul in the third world. Puts things in perspective prettty quick.

[diane in sf]

69. Not true, the silent generation had it much better in many ways than boomers

[raccoon]

114. Do you mean those who were born in the 1930's? I heard them referred to

as the "Good Times Generation" because their numbers were small.

[WinkyDink]

87. Really? You must be young.

[fasttense]

18. Boy the writer of this story really doesn't get it.

Sometimes she/he touches on it then goes terribly wrong.

Not everyone was a hippy in the boomer generation. Those without those hippy values bought into the greed is good, money determines your self worth, my job is me, consumerism is all. When the economy started to fail a good decade before the economist noticed, the most vulnerable felt it first. Corporations started to jettison high wage workers 1st and they were mostly people in their 50s and 60s. If you no longer have that good paying job, and your self esteem is based upon it, then you feel worthless. You can't buy all the crap advertised on the TV. You can't be part of the consumerism that has defined our capitalist society.

Suicide rates always go up in extreme capitalist societies. People are commodities and if you aren't making the decent salary then you are a piss poor commodity. To make it worse, traditional marriage is all but disappeared yet our capitalist society still parades it around as if it were the best thing ever. No longer are men the king of their castles. Women are remaining single even if they have children. Women are refusing to stay with men who act like lords but then don't bring home the gold. The deal for traditional marriage was that the man went out to work and brought home the paycheck and he was lord and master to his wife and children. But now, women have to go out to work full time to make ends meet and they don't want someone at home who does very little of the household chores and still thinks he's in charge. Women have been divorcing men like that in droves. That's why many a marriage falls apart when the man loses his job and can't find another decent job. The lord and master is no longer king but a serf like all the rest of us.

No longer can a man, especially in his 50s and 60s, bring home a pay check big enough to meet all the needs of the family. He has been dethroned and he does not have those hippy values to fall back on.

Not only that but those decent middle class jobs that have mostly disappeared were pretty awful anyway. At work you were ruled by whatever your boss told you to do. You have very little input on what to do or how to do it. Capitalism makes us all serfs on the job while the kings - the CEOs and board of directors - exploit us more and more, while trying to pay us less and less. A person with traditional values would think that yes the job is awful but at least I'm providing for my family. I'm sacrificing myself so my family can live well. But now, the job is awful and the pay is awful too. So, all that sacrifice the man thought he was doing to help his family was a waste.

[raccoon]

33. Great post, esp. what you said about traditional marriage. nt

[Zorra]

99. Wow. Really insightful post.

thanks for that perspective.

[CBHagman]

25. Worth checking out: the CDC statistics on suicide

[url]http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/suicide/statistics/aag.html#C[/url]

What was striking to me was learning that the suicide rate among people 65 and older declined quite markedly. If I'm not mistaken, it used to be 40 per 100,000.

[orpupilofnature57]

27. Desolation

[Butterbean]

28. My boomer parents are not coping well. My hypothesis is

that it is because they are genuinely shocked and angry that their bodies have somehow betrayed them by breaking down and starting to age. My mother is furious, and I do mean furious that she has to take 6 meds for high blood pressure and 1 for cholesterol, when she lived the whole organic gardening/mother earth lifestyle and is a normal weight. She insisted that she simply couldn't have heart blockages because she wasn't fat, her chest pain couldn't have been caused by heart blockages. It took us 2 years of browbeating her to drag her to a cardiologist (kicking and screaming all the way). One cardiac cath later: 10 blockages. Yep.

My dad has parkinson's and rapidly progressing lewy body dementia. My mother is furious (again, I do mean furious) that he has gotten sick and insists that he wouldn't have gotten ill so early if he had remained as active as her during his life. My dad has a strong familial history for parkinsons (his dad and his uncle), and suffered numerous head injuries as a child (child abuse with 2 x 4's). His illness has fuck all to do with his activity level.

My parents are financially secure, and live comfortably, and have friends they see regularly. My mom still works full time for herself as a therapist who owns her own LLC (dad was forced out when he got sick because he let lots of things fall behind). Yet both of my parents are depressed. Mom is more angry than depressed, and dad is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more depressed than angry, yet here they are, both of them, angry and depressed because their bodies did not remain perfect. They are indignant that they did not remain spry and bouncy well into their 90's, as they used to joke about. Getting older wasn't supposed to happen to them.

I've tried and tried and tried and beat my head against a wall trying to get my mom to go to a support group, seek counseling, etc.. Nope. Dad is being started on anti-d's this month by his neurologist.

[WinkyDink]

88. We'll see how well YOU cope.

[Butterbean]

90. n/t

[Awknid]

119. Part of that might be due

To the crappy medical field and the bad food that is out there. I knew someone (57) who had hypothyroidism. She was told she also had horribly bad high blood pressure and high cholesterol. They wanted to put her on meds for BP and High cholesterol. She was furious because she knew better! But she finally found a doctor who was willing to give more thyroid medicine than is normally allowed in the standards. Both the high blood pressure and high cholesterol went away. The standards for the medical field are set up to sell drugs. They want us all sick. I sympathize with your Mom there!

[Butterbean]

121. Well, mom has 10 blockages, with a 50% blockage in her left main.

When she doesn't take her meds, her bp skyrockets to the 200's/100's. She has a strong familial history for hypertension and high cholesterol, and we kept telling her, it's not you, it's your genes, don't take it personally. She's very non-compliant and puts herself at risk all the time. One of these days she's going to have a stroke, and then it will be even worse.

Dad is declining incredibly rapidly, and to say mom is coping with it poorly is a gross understatement. She yells at him when he falls down or drops something, and yells at him when he forgets things. She refuses to remind him to take his meds because she feels she "shouldn't have to." It's just a huge mess.

Dealing with my parents right now is probably the biggest stressor in my life.

[Sheldon Cooper]

30. I'm a boomer, mid 50s, and frankly I don't see much hope for my golden years.

I am in no way suicidal, but I don't fear death, either. Once my kids are grown and on their own (I hope within the next ten years) I don't think I'll care one way or the other when it's my turn to go. My only real fear is that I'll linger and become a burden, which would be worse than death.

[IdaBriggs]

34. "estranged from friends and family" - why?

"Instead, compared with their parents’ generation, boomers have higher rates of obesity, prescription and illicit drug abuse, alcoholism, divorce, depression and mental disorders. As they age, many add to that list chronic illness, disabilities and the strains of caring for their parents and for adult children who still depend on them financially."

I don't think it is always about the "support" being removed; sometimes, if you have spent your life as a self-entitled asshole, people don't want to be around you (and you end up "estranged" with no one to care for or about you).

Suicide is a selfish choice. I understand that the people who use it just want the pain to end, and sometimes even think it will be easier on everyone else, but they are WRONG.

I also think the deficiency issues (especially those caused by the lack of nutrients in our food supply) are *really* impacting people in a lot of different ways.

This is such a sad story.

[Fumesucker]

38. One of the first things people ask when meeting is "What do you do"?

Which of course is a just a way of finding out your income and your social status. If most of your self worth is wrapped up in what you do and the income it provides then losing that job isn't just losing a job it's losing most of who you are.

A lot of us were hopeful for the 21st century in 1999, there really was at least some reason to believe that things would get better rather than worse. For me at least the selection of Dubya in 2000 led to a huge disillusionment with the American system and my place in it. Now we are going on fifteen years with things getting continuously worse and no relief in sight.

One of the few positive things about getting old is that you gain perspective, the more perspective I gain the less hopeful I become for the future for my child and my grandchildren, I'm actually glad now that I won't live to see it.

[IdaBriggs]

48. "just a way of finding out your income and your social status" - disagree.

"What do you do?" is also about WHAT DO YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE? I have met vibrant retired folks who could (and do) rattle on for hours about what they do, without ever once mentioning income. I have also met women who proudly announce "stay at home mom", which lets everyone know exactly what their life priorities are, which always begs the follow up questions about their families, which easily segues into all of the things they "do" with their time.

I think self-esteem comes from making an impact in the world; the easy measurement (in theory) is how much someone values the time you give them with a paycheck, but there is always more to it than that (says the computer geek who spends an inordinate amount of time volunteering for a variety of good causes) because how you spend your time shows where your values are.

My twins are six years old, and (as I recently told a "looking forward to the end times Christian&quot I don't want the world to end for a long time yet because I want them to live in it. I am excited about the opportunities they have - the people they will meet, the relationships they will form, the discoveries and inventions they will be a part of, and someday, them making me a proud and doting grandma. Yes, the world is full of challenges, but I am an optimist (most of the time - lol!), and I believe that, while they will face "interesting times" their father and I are doing our best to equip them to make a positive impact in the world.

They are simply the most wonderful children in the whole world, and I regularly am stunned that I am so lucky as to be their mother.

[Fumesucker]

49. That may be your answer but that's not what most people ask the question for

They want to know where to fit you in the social ladder and asking what you do is (usually) a remarkably good way to find out the information they need to know in order to place you in the hierarchy.

Since I've been self employed mostly and what I do isn't easily categorized I've dealt with this question a lot and usually find that those who ask the question have their eyes glaze over rather quickly when I start to try to explain.

I haven't been optimistic since Nov 8, 2000.

[wickerwoman]

72. I don't think that's true.

I think most people are just desperately trying to avoid awkward conversational pauses with strangers and so they fish around for a topic that can be expanded on. "What do you do?" usually provokes easy follow-up questions or provides an easy way to segue into "Oh, do you travel a lot for that job?" or "What did you study in school/How did you get into that". It's essentially asking "How do you spend most of your waking hours?"

For some of us, the answer we have to give is quite boring and technical (I'm with you on that one), but eyes aren't glazing over because people aren't impressed by where we fall on the social hierarchy. It's because it's hard to get laypeople to understand what we do in a few sentences and so they can't come up with that follow-up question that keeps the conversation going. Their eyes are glazing over in despair because they can see that awkward pause coming and they can't think of how to fill it.

[Fumesucker]

73. I like to ask people what their hobbies are

Practically everyone can wax poetic about their hobbies, not everyone feels the same way about their jobs by any means. If you know about the subject you can discuss and if you don't you can ask questions.

I asked someone that a few days ago and we ended up talking about 50's and 60's TV shows for about a half hour, he was a vintage tV buff and it turned out we enjoyed a bunch of the same ones back in the day and he knew a lot of kind of interesting trivia about them.

And I just recently learned about a style of furniture that I'd never heard of before with that question.

[IdaBriggs]

112. Very insightful post! I am an IT consultant, and I usually

just explain it with "programmer" because people think they have a clue about what that means, while what I actually do just confuses the beans out of them - lol!

[raccoon]

115. Sometimes I feel that way too--good to hear I'm not the only one.

" the future for my child and my grandchildren, I'm actually glad now that I won't live to see it."

[duffyduff]

47. This has NOTHING to do with the aches and pains of aging and EVERYTHING to do with

deteriorating economy, which includes destroying pensions and savings, and age discrimination in job loss and in hiring.

[dixiegrrrrl]

94. I also think the deficiency issues (especially those caused by the lack of nutrients

Yep....
We live in a much much more polluted world.

Recent study shows people who take multi-vitamins, esp. B complex, have less rates of dementia.
Study "suggests" there could be a link to nutrition and brain function.
DOH!!!!

A deficiency of common sense, on top of everything.

[RobinA]

35. I'm a Mid-50's Boomer

I have a job and will probably be able to eat human food in retirement, although I have just recently begun to believe that I will not be residing on a steam grate, something I have believed all my life. The thing for me, and I am not suicidal, is that everything just sucks these days. We were raised in the post-war economic boom, which was more than just economic. We were doing things like going to the moon. Nothing seemed impossible. Many people were moving on up. School was expanding. New things were being tried. No, everything was not perfect (Vietnam). But now it seems everywhere I turn things are going downhill. Been to the moon lately? Been to a National Park lately? A shadow of what they used to be. Being staffed by very knowledgable boomer volunteers. That's nice, but what's next when they are too old to work. Their knowledge dies with them. Training at work? Nearly gone. Every product you put your hands on is cheap junk. Many people around are consumed with, and consuming, the superficial. Sure, it was always there, but it seems more inescapable now.

My point is that growing up we took the growth and expansion to be normal, just the way things were. Turns out it was just a phase. It's hard and depressing to deal with the current decay, which doesn't seem to have an end in sight. It seems hopeless. Hopelessness being a key factor in suicide. Not saying this all is the whole problem, but it sure doesn't help.

[lumberjack_jeff]

43. +1 n/t

[MindPilot]

37. I think it is because things are coming apart

We used to have hope and promise. The country worked together to do some pretty spectacular things. We progressed and improved but that is now being destroyed.

We lost. It is that simple.

[earthbot1]

40. I'm in this group

and have just realized the struggle I am facing. I need to reinvent myself for these times.

[jwirr]

41. It was not the life he envisioned. Bingo. I live with a granddaughter-in-law who fell for the old

find the right guy and live happily ever after line. She has 3 children that neither her or her husband can handle and my grandson is not the perfect copy of her father she expected him to be. This week we have gone through hell - screaming, yelling, blaming everything on the little scapegoat of the family, sleeping long hours of the day, buying food for herself even when her children do not have a lot of food, etc. She is obviously depressed and will not go for help. I suspect the helper would want to talk about such things as unreal expectations and that is the last thing she wants to do. It would not surprise me that she would do something drastic like suicide.

Years ago I went through the discovery that life was not the American Dream I had been led to believe it was so I get it but I do not have the slightest idea what to do to help. I live with them and help my grandson keep the house up and sit with the kids when she is not into it but that is all I can do.

[lumberjack_jeff]

42. "Perhaps a little more adversity in youth could have helped prepare them"

The author deserves every vietnam vet an apology.

[duffyduff]

45. The author is a blithering moron.

There is a LOT of adversity especially since the rise of neoliberal economics, which has caused the deterioration of living standards in this country.

The baby boom generation is the first generation victimized by this sociopathic cult which began in the Reagan years.

I seriously doubt baby boomers are killing themselves because of "aging" issues. It has to do with the worsening economic situation.

Age discrimination plays a gigantic role in this.

[diane in sf]

71. I agree, the job market started getting sucky in the 70s by deliberate design

And things have continued downhill since than, with only a temporary uptick for some during the Clinton years.

[Taverner]

58. Because the ship they thought they built is falling apart

But the blame is misplaced - this ship was built years ago by long dead men, and they are suffering for it

[Awknid]

120. It pisses me off when they blame the boomers

For making the country what it is. They have no idea what it was like to watch them kill Kennedy, then Bobby, Martin, install Bush, etc. we might have been more effective if the CIA had not made sure drugs were so available, but.... Most of us tried as hard as we could. Lets see the young ones do better! Then they can come to us and say we were to blame.

[Taverner]

122. It was never the boomers fault

The Prescott Bushes, the Rockerfellers, the architects of American Corporatacracy rebuilt the market at the turn of the century. FDR saved us, but couldn't complete his plan.

They knew it would be best to split the Boomer generation, that's why the draft lottery was done the way it was.

In politics, nothing happens by accident.

[Laelth]

65. Fascinating thread. k&r for exposure. n/t

-Laelth

[Egalitarian Thug]

74. The irony of this piece being written by a twit that is the beneficiary of the betrayal

that is resulting in this story is not lost on some of us. I'm not quite a boomer (jones - x, I'm not sure and don't really care), but I was old enough to see and mostly understand what the line; "It was not the life he had envisioned as a young man in the 1960s and ’70s", implies.

Many of you were not alive, and some of us have forgotten, but this nation was far better and improving prior to the '80s.It was far from perfect and rife with problems in just about every aspect of society, but things were better and most importantly, on a trajectory toward enlightenment.

Racism was still rampant, but it was not acceptable in polite society. Your violently racist uncle was an embarrassment and not invited to parties.

Sexism was less prevalent than today and the "hey baby, nice rack!" asshole-on-the-street was just as likely to be confronted and ridiculed by a group of whoever was around as he was to be ignored.

Unemployment was high, but when you finally did land a job, it was far more likely to pay enough to live on.

Government was corrupt and likely as not to make things worse, but it strove to do great things, not devoted to lowering expectations.

Listen to the content of Jimmy Carter's State of the Union speeches. Any leader that tried to pass off "This sucks but it's the best we can hope for" as a strategy would not be the leader of anything the following week.

These people have lived the lives they are living, not because of some amorphous 'vision', but under the terms of a contract. That contract has not just been broken, its very existence is denied. Their future was stolen from them and simply handed to the very worst criminals around in exchange for nothing.

A black President. Wiccan symbols in Arlington. Gay marriage. Women in executive positions. Cars that get 40mpg and are able to keep you alive after a catastrophic accident. The computer or phone you are reading this on and the internet which links us all together. The list goes on and on, are all the direct results of what we were doing then.

What are we making today that we will have 30 years from now?

[Auntie Bush]

75. If you are dangerously depressed...You should

turn OFF ALL News channels and stick with happy movies and shows and non political information and entertainment. Guaranteed you'll feel happier, far less worried and depressed. Make me happy and tell me you will give it a try. Lately when each Obama scandal is on the news I turn the TV off and listen to music...well anyway I try to. I have it off today...Don't want to listen to what's in the news today. Later I'll try to watch a good movie...if there is one...maybe Rachael and O'D. Good luck and be happy.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

102. Good advice! Listen to positive music.

That means NO country or shitkick, no screaming death metal, no hip-hop, etc. New Age wallpaper does not have enough musical content to interest me.

I listen to classical, jazz and old rock n roll. I love to turn people on to good soothing music.

I also do not watch violent movies or horror movies.

The people around here listen to whiny depressing country music--I ran out of beer, my huntin' dawg died, my wife ran off.

In church on Sunday they listen to the verbal abuse of a preacher telling them they are inherently sinful, because of two idiots in an ancient fairy tale, and that they won't be whole persons unless they bow and scrape to an imaginary being.....

and wonder WHY THEY ARE DEPRESSED.

Be careful what you feed your head. Grace Slick was right.

[WovenGems]

76. Unwanted Changes

"Hope I die before I get old" - The Who

It be a generational thingy.

[pgr]

77. And when I die...

And when I die, and when I'm gone,
There'll be one child born
In this world to carry on,
to carry on.

I'm already an old BBer!

[WovenGems]

80. Pop Quiz

Final Jeopardy Answer is "This person wrote those lyrics".

[pinboy3niner]

83. Laura Nyro.

Google is my friend.


And welcome to DU, WovenGems!

[WovenGems]

85. Nyro

Youtube her and be astounded at all the tunes you know but didn't know she wrote them as well as recorded them.

And a welcome right back at ya!

[hrmjustin]

81. Welcome to DU my friend!

[pinboy3niner]

82. Another ditty for some boomers...

If I die in a combat zone
Box me up and ship me home.

--Marching cadence sung by troops in Vietnam War-era military training

[lunasun]

108. i thought of that song too!

[felix_numinous]

78. Excellent discussion

First :

I am 56, just last night I was thinking about how sad it is to watch a system fail. Truly, we are watching one era end and another begin.

Last night I was reading that change begins with death, then rebirth as something new. I think that sadness and grief must be embraced ( perhaps Kubler Ross 5 stages of death) --completely-- in order to make room for what is to come, for creativity, and to totally let go of what is not working.

Going through cancer here, and the hidden gift of this is being given permission to be sad and to acknowledge pain. In doing so I recognize how poor so many are in allowing ourselves to do this.

Our freaking country has changed-- profoundly-- > what would happen if we grieved it and let go of the illusion that a dying corrupted system would ever fix itself---grieve it, allow the sadness?
What would happen if this grief (which is powerful) was looked upon as a gateway to the future and not a disease?

What if we found ourselves free of old expectations enough to start creating something new? Planting forests, communities, making our own energy--the internal shift has to happen, but cannot while we are so emotionally invested in what has been ( and continues to be) lost.

Our society is too stoic-- we are human and we need to honor pain and death as well as the joy. What is not grieved is either projected outside ourself (as in 'why don't they____?') or buried deep within and allowed to just fester. Expecting a corrupt system to fix itself is like staying in an abusive relationship.

I have a tendency to be on the stoic side, so when I share my sadness with someone, I find great strength in vulnerability-- because underneath it all we need our authenticity. And many times, after tears comes some laughter.

Another

[Fumesucker]

84. And one right back at you

[pinboy3niner]

91. Excellent, insightful reply

All the more meaningful because you didn't dwell on your health struggles. So, first .

Elizabeth was a pioneer, and she worked with the mother of a high school classmate of mine and recorded an ALS video about it.

Strength in vulnerability is an excellent point.

The notion of honoring "pain and death as well as the joy" struck home in a way. As a VN vet in therapy for PTSD, I once had a therapist who noticed that every time he mentioned a negative effect on me, I'd say "Yeah, but..." and try to dismiss it.

That therapist told me that I was dissociating from my feelings (as a VA psychologist had already told me).

He started having me do a simple exercise when I arrived for an appointment--close my eyes, breathe, and listen to the sounds around me. The ticking of the clock, the cars on the street, the birds chirping outside the window....

So simple, but the effect was magical. He said that I hadn't been real before. But after the exercise I was real. And he was right. That old stoicism was not helping at all.

But I can certainly identify with your stoicistic tendencies--and your knocking that down.

I think you're amazing, and I hope you'll be around for a while, felix_numinous.

[OneGrassRoot]

116. Wow, felix.....

First, here's a big for you!

Powerful post.

Just last week I wrote a blog post based on this, about pain being our common denominator.

I am so with you and resonate very, very much with what you shared here!

[WinkyDink]

86. "a little more adversity in youth could have helped": Yes, that VietNam thing was sooo cushy!

[lumberjack_jeff]

93. It's tempting to create a profile of the writer for that one sentence alone. n/t

[pinboy3niner]

111. I thanked my cushy blessings every day for 18 months in an Army hospital

At the time, I apparently didn't appreciate how good I had it.

[raccoon]

117. I suggest you email that to this moran (sic) author. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

92. We can't afford to retire and we can't afford to get sick.

So the only way out is the early exit program.

[glinda]

96. What hope is there if the environment is totaled and if we

feel helpless to the demands of such a small group of wealthy Corps heads and buddies? People wonder why young people are throwing themselves off of bridges. I don't.

[eridani]

100. The author seems to have forgotten that there were TWO recessions between 2000-2007

Both followed by totally JOBLESS recoveries. The entire decade added not one single extra job, even as the number of people in the employable age groups continued to rise. Under such conditions, the youngest and oldest members of the work force are hit the hardest, and the young at least have the advantage of comparative physical resilience.

[woo me with science]

103. Not enough propaganda.

Or it is just not getting through.

C'mon, folks. You can do better. Explain why devastating and impoverishing millions and stripping their fundamental civil protections is a *good* thing again?

[DesertFlower]

105. i'm almost 72 -- a bit older than a boomer

but i consider myself one. i'm financially secure but i have health problems, i.e., CFS/ME, IBS, scoliosis, herniated discs, osteo arthritis. i feel sick most of the time. every year i seem to be able to do less. last year my husband of almost 42 years died from a brain tumor. he was my soul mate and took really good care of me.

i find it hard to go on living. i don't see any future for myself. i'm seeing a therapist. i told her when monkey (my cat) dies i'm going to will myself to die.

i only have 2 friends here -- one is agoraphobic -- so i don't see her. my other friends are back in new york. my step daughter is in atlanta. my granddaughter is in west palm beach. i did have some friends here but they got sick too. hard to make friends when you feel sick. i don't even know many of my neighbors. i am in a remote area.

my husband always used to tell me that my health would improve, but it hasn't. it's been steadily going downhill since '05.

i used to be an active, outgoing person. now i only go out when i have to. most times i lie in bed watching tv.

people have suggested that i move closer to family, but phoenix is my home -- has been for almost 24 years. i live in a house that hubby and i built together.

hubby and i realized the american dream. he worked for IBM for almost 43 years (until he got sick). the money was good and so were the benefits.

when i lived in new york there was an elderly couple who lived in my building. they were retired and used to walk around holding hands. then she died. i remember him saying to me in his yiddish accent "if you dun't gut your health, you gut nothin". i always remembered those words but they mean more to me now.

[Babel_17]

110. May I humbly suggest

Amazon has a section devoted to people over 50. http://www.amazon.com/b?ie=UTF8&node=5856180011

"Customers ages 50+ can find nutrition and wellness items, exercise and fitness equipment, medical supplies, personal care and beauty products, entertainment suggestions and more"

Naturally, you need to first consult with your doctor, a lot of supplements have drug like properties, but I've found relief from some of them.

Lemon Balm and Passion Flower are generally seen as mostly safe and providing mild relief for several discomforts. Though some people find them to interact with their medication as they can act as COX-2 inhibitors (pain relievers). Boswellia (Frankincense, as in from one of The Three Wise Men) and Bacopa (for a bright mental outlook) are also worth looking at.

It's all too easy to accumulate an insufferable amount of supplements to take so I find it helps to research for the stars amongst them and alternate those.

B-Complex with Methylcobalamin, not the cheaper stuff, and absorbable Magnesium (like Magnesium Glycinate) and Strontium (for bone density) help supplement a good diet. As do odorless garlic caps.

You might not be aware of it but there are games for the computer that look great and challenge the mind while not requiring a very expensive PC and added video card. http://www.adventuregamers.com/

Those Tablets you see see kids using are also ok for playing simpler (but highly addictive!) games and reading books, listening to music, and browsing the internet. If you are like me then the bigger the better for browsing the internet on a tablet. If you wouldn't use one outside of bed or the house then a laptop can be a better buy.

Amazon has a good one and so many others.

I realize I'm advocating a near obscene level of consumerism but there's no law saying you have to buy a lot or can't shop for bargains. With games, there is free stuff to be had. Same thing for e-books.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Free+e-books

I can't swear by all those links of course, they are on the internet, but Project Gutenberg is amazing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gutenberg

You can read those books right in your browser. Just pick the version saying "HTML".

P.S. A lot of people swear by SAM-e but some people don't react well to the average dose and require the rarer ones that come in tiny doses.

I realize my response is a bit presumptuous, my regrets if it isn't appreciated but hopefully there was some food for thought in it.

[DesertFlower]

124. thank you. nt

[ohheckyeah]

106. Maybe it has to do with being lied to our whole

friggin' lives. Maybe it has to do with having to fight the same damn battles, over and over and over again.

[WovenGems]

109. Or?

It may be applying the quality/quantity formula we used to decide when to say goodbye to our pets to ourselves.

[dembotoz]

113. the question at times should not be why but more why not

this is not a cry for help
I do not have a gun in my lap....

but as I get older I do see it perhaps as a rational decision that one could make

[L0oniX]

123. K & R

[Th1onein]

126. Two Words: SSRI Drugs

[annm4peace]

127. I agree with you

[hrmjustin]

129. God welcomes everyone in hevean in my opinion.

[NRaleighLiberal]

130. raise your kids to take care of you? how about them living their lives and reaching their

potential? And both Catholics and Protestants are Christians - but only Catholics "get in"?

You remind me of a Baptist friend I had that told me that because I wasn't a Baptist, I was going to hell.

Tell me...who is right? and what makes you so sure?