When everyone used to only have a landline-almost all telephone numbers were public in phone books

[graham4anything]

there were NO phones that didn't have their number known

(not to mention party lines.)

How is this any different, except with 2013 technology.

As they are not listening in all it is is phone numbers.

Not to mention, google search can check any phone number

It's like when one receives spam, and you check who it is, and there are 100s of entries saying so

So, what privacy?

[dlwickham]

1. stop making sense

you'll confuse people

[B2G]

2. A phone book listing does not track who you call, how long you talk,

where the call originates/teminates, etc.

Do we really need to explain this to you? My god.

[uponit7771]

4. Neither does the people who have the meta data, do we need to explain THAT to you?!

...not without a warrant, the data is pre-fetched ...so what

[B2G]

8. WTF does that even mean??

[uponit7771]

10. That the current poutrage is much ado about nothing.....................................AGAIN

[villager]

26. "Poutrage?" Why, you forgot "Pearl Clutching," and other rote phrases

...for defending the indefensible.

[uponit7771]

31. K, poutrage, pearl clutching, professional, provocateurs............better?! tia

[villager]

35. I figured your list would be at your fingertips!

[oldhippie]

47. Was that supposed to be .....

..... English? WTF?

[jberryhill]

25. Have you been shredding your phone bill?

Or do you put it in the trash where anyone can see it?

[WeekendWarrior]

66. OH MY GOD!!!!!! Somebody might be tracking how long my calls are????

The world is coming to an end, I tell you. It's over. Done. If the NSA knows I was on hold with the DMV for two hours, we're doomed.

[uponit7771]

3. This outrage too.......shall pass. Once I read what was really happening I see the hyperbole

...of the M$M and the disgust that many on DU will still take them seriously

[AgingAmerican]

49. Creeping fascism

n/t

[villager]

5. "The information collected includes call recipients and all location data, meaning where you are

...physically located whenever you make a call and every single social association you have (the people you call, the people who call you)...."

http://disinfo.com/2013/06/dont-worry-about-obama-spying-on-you-just-kidding-you-should-worry/

[uponit7771]

9. ...you forgot the "pre-fetched" part and can't be looked at without a warrant

[villager]

12. The automatically renewed FISA warrant they get for total surveillance, you mean?

Sure.

Back to sleep, now....

[uponit7771]

18. no

[graham4anything]

22. But it doesn't say WHO is on the line.

however, it could with a warrant show a pattern.

I bet if someone was kidnapped, this could be a very good thing

And Verizon is the off shoot of ATT and Ma Bell from prior years.
Who readily gave up any info when asked.

(yet people facebook and put their phone number, photos and address on it(or location).

[B2G]

32. They have your number, they have your name

Your naivete is really quite amusing.

[cali]

56. Do some reading. They can easily determine that and you have to be completely brain dead

to think they don't.

[B2G]

6. Now start a new thread excusing PRISM

Can't hardly wait.

[uponit7771]

16. NSA hasn't been spying outside of US internet domains !?!?!?!?! REALLY!?

Come on people, READ THE ARTICLES!!

They are not hard

[B2G]

23. so they've only been spying INSIDE US internet domains?

Oh that's so much better.

[uponit7771]

24. My point being they've been doing the spying outside of US domains sense internet inception

...THIS "breaking" news is almost like saying we've landed on the moon.

It's easy for our M$M to light everyone up with sophistry.

The only "new" news is that the NSA has figured out how to do the snooping "real time"

So what, it's pretty good tech but it changes nothing operationally about what they've been doing since they were conceived

[B2G]

36. Uh, bullshit

This just started in 2008 and has rapidly escalated ever since.

Are you trying to say you knew about this program prior to yesterday? And that they are not obtaining this data via warrant? And that they have direct access into these companies servers? Because it sure seems like news to the rest of the world.

The mental gyrations some will go through to justify this is stunning.

[uponit7771]

51. What is the "this" you're talking about...be specific, we're talking about technology here

...and not a bunch of nebulous terms the M$M likes to attach to it

[B2G]

55. I'm talking about PRISM

Which you'd know if you'd follow the thread.

[uponit7771]

57. What is the "this" in prism that is new today? vs 10 years ago?! regards

[B2G]

58. It started in 2007 and has escalated ever since. Rapidly.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

[uponit7771]

61. So basically nothing is new...a known known

[B2G]

63. Well it's been known since yesterday

Whatever.

You obviously aren't to be reasoned with.

[uponit7771]

64. This is false, facts matter...its been known BEFORE yesterday. I'm logical as they come & like facts

[B2G]

65. Show me where PRISM was known about before yesterday

I like facts as well.

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. OK, smart guy, then why is the NSA planning for 5 zettabytes of storage

when the phone books you're talking about could fit on a thumb drive?

[villager]

15. +1

n/t

[uponit7771]

17. again, pre-fetched data that can only be looked at AT TIME OF WARRANT.

This data isn't something they can just gather after a terrorist event happens so the pre-fetch it...hold it and get a warrant AFTER crap hits the fan

Regards

[Dreamer Tatum]

19. Your lack of concern is duly noted and appreciated by your masters. nt

[villager]

21. Indeed, that lack of concern is *counted on* by those masters...

n/t

[uponit7771]

27. facts matter, want to discuss some on the issue? tia

[DisgustipatedinCA]

40. Whose fairy tale are you buying?

You seem to have some concept that the NSA will stay within the confines of the law. They've never been burdened with such a concept. Why are you?

[FarCenter]

11. We were on an 8-party line that did not have selective ringing

All 8 parties could hear everyone else's coded rings.

[Wait Wut]

13. The phone book...

...didn't tell everyone how often I made super-secret calls to my son.

I wonder if 'they' know about the call I made to the cab company Saturday nite.

[NCTraveler]

14. You must have had some pretty impressive phone books.

You could tell all of my sent and received calls? Texts?

You could tell my location when making calls?

Amazing what you could do with a phone book.

[graham4anything]

28. a phone bill would have all the info of any out of area call (#,where and minutes).

and my own Verizon bill shows every phone we have an who made what call

btw, an EZ pass can tell where you are
and so could a computer

and as said before my c/c and supermarket discount card shows every single item I ever purchased.

And if one goes to Disney, for decades you could charge it on a room key, any and all charges if staying in one of their resorts
Meaning they knew 100% of everything

This is yet another faux issue, but then it's Friday, and the odd thing is, I bet we have another one next week.

[uponit7771]

33. +1, not only that in THIS case the NSA is pre-fetching the data and holding it and can't look at it

...until they get a warrant to even with the meta data.

I don't like them "holding" the meta data but their justification is sound; if some crap happened and they had to pull it with a valid warrant they're looking at weeks and months not hours

[B2G]

41. Show me where they need a warrant to look at the data

once it's collect. The warrant is for the initial collection. Once collected, they don't need an additional warrant to mine it.

[The Link]

20. I remember big books that also had all the numbers you called and those that called you.

Anybody could see it.

Its all the same as now. Whats the big deal?

[Wounded Bear]

29. And in very Republican fashion....

you could pay to be excluded from that phone book.

[Warren Stupidity]

30. Again I am just shocked by your defense of the indefensible.

edited to add some content.

Solzhenitsyn wrote about the stalinist terror. The security police would come to your apartment to arrest you, but they wouldn't take you away, nor would they make a grand entrance. They would just show up. And wait. And as your friends and acquaintances showed up, they would arrest them as well. The idea was to arrest you and your entire social network.

"Your entire social network" is now in a government database. If the need arises to suppress you as an enemy of the state, they now can do what required many people and lots of time in the 30's in an instant.

But don't worry. You've done nothing wrong.

[LWolf]

34. It's called an unlisted number,

and yes, it was around when "everyone" "used to only have a landline."

So your statement that "there were NO phones that didn't have their number known" is false.

Party lines were a function of affordability and access; clearly, party line users knew that others could listen in. That's the point: accessing private information without the consent or knowledge of the person that information belongs to.

[villager]

38. Exactly, LWolf. It's what the expectations/knowledge of the user is, going in

As opposed to the clandestine spying/info-gathering now happening...

[Nye Bevan]

37. YES my grandma had a party line and you could eavesdrop when other people were using it!

So that makes everything OK! You really have nailed it!

Carry on, nothing to see here......

[hobbit709]

39. Ever hear of "Unlisted" numbers?

[oldhippie]

50. I don't think he's old enough ...

... to remember those.

[LanternWaste]

42. one could opt out of being listed in a phone book.

"How is this any different, except with 2013 technology...."


During the period that land lines were prevalent, one could opt out of being listed in a phone book. Unless we are allowed to opt out of surveillance, there is a precise and relevant difference, regardless of how you might rationalize it otherwise.

[tabbycat31]

54. one has to pay to opt out of being listed in a phone book

When I was a teen, I'd receive harassing phone calls and begged my parents to have an unlisted number. They refused to pay for it.

And people wonder why I won't touch a landline with a 10 foot pole.

[Whiskeytide]

68. I generally agree with your position on this...

... but I don't agree with your analogy here. Back in the day even unlisted phone numbers were still known to the phone company, and were easily accessible to law enforcement if they wanted it.

My concern is that this information is being collected and stored. Someone, somewhere, is bound to be putting it through some kind of analysis - or at least is certainly capable of doing so in a very sophisticated way. I have posted and said a lot of bad stuff about Bush, Cheney, Rove and others over the last few years. Does that mean I'm on a list somewhere, and if something bad happens to one of those guys, am I gonna get a visit from men in black suits and dark sunglasses?

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. Fuckin' A Right!

I used to look in the phone book ALL THE TIME to find out who my girlfriend was calling.

Fuck. Me. To. Tears.

[nashville_brook]

44. can we pleeeaase have an "unintended" DUzy category?

[Sheldon Cooper]

45. Well, I must say that I am in awe of this OP.

And not in a good way.

[ohheckyeah]

46. And your point is what? I could choose not to have my phone

number listed. They don't need to know who I talk to and how long and who they talk to and how long. It's invasion of privacy and bullshit that I did not, nor will I, ever consent to. Of course, the government doesn't give a damn if I consent or not.

[kentuck]

48. "... all it is is phone numbers. "

Then, why do they need it at all?? Are they just wasting taxpayer money?

[XemaSab]

52. If I said "Hey, gimme your phone,"

"I'm going to look at your last 50 phone calls and see who you talked to, what the time of day was, and how long you talked for," would you hand your phone over to me, a perfect stranger? Why or why not?

[Whisp]

53. we had a book called the Henderson Directory

in my province in Canada. It may still be around but I've seen it many years ago and it categorized people by phone number or address. So if you knew either of these you could find out all kinds of shit about that person. Where they worked, etc. and it was publicly accessible.

This was in the 70s and I have no idea if that thing still exists.

[LeftInTX]

67. We had them too here in the US - City directories

You could access an address and get the names of who lived there etc.
I used it to spy on boyfriends.

[KG]

59. hilarious

[octoberlib]

60. My parents phone number has always been unlisted and so is ours. nt

[graham4anything]

62. and the phone company has a list of all that already, so they already know it.