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Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:04 PM

I don't care whether you approve or disapprove of Edward Snowden's leaks. What REALLY outrages me

is that fucking PRIVATE CONTRACTORS are carrying out this surveillance. PRIVATE CONTRACTORS who are beholden to no-one, who work for PROFIT, whose owners amass huge fortunes doing the bidding of the MIC/National Security State - THESE are the people who are being given access to all this data collection!

THESE are the people who can spend whatever they like IN SECRET to influence our elections and our entire political process. THESE are the people who can spend endless money on lobbyists to make sure that THEY get Defense Department contracts, who can spend endless money on lobbyists to make sure that secret surveillance continues to be approved by Congress.

Do you really think this just fine, just peachy? Do you really think that THIS is how a true democracy should work? Do you really think that giving private, for profit companies access to the apparatus of State Security is okay? Do you really think we should just trust THEM?

I mean - SHIT!

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Reply I don't care whether you approve or disapprove of Edward Snowden's leaks. What REALLY outrages me (Original post)
scarletwoman Jun 2013 OP
Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #1
hlthe2b Jun 2013 #2
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #61
Moostache Jun 2013 #68
kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #3
harun Jun 2013 #93
boston bean Jun 2013 #4
jeff47 Jun 2013 #29
arcane1 Jun 2013 #52
JDPriestly Jun 2013 #60
jeff47 Jun 2013 #74
JDPriestly Jun 2013 #75
G_j Jun 2013 #5
boston bean Jun 2013 #8
Texasgal Jun 2013 #22
morningfog Jun 2013 #21
NightWatcher Jun 2013 #6
timdog44 Jun 2013 #19
usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #7
burnodo Jun 2013 #9
treestar Jun 2013 #12
burnodo Jun 2013 #33
struggle4progress Jun 2013 #56
DevonRex Jun 2013 #10
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #14
DevonRex Jun 2013 #51
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #53
truedelphi Jun 2013 #137
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #138
zeemike Jun 2013 #20
Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #36
awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #100
greiner3 Jun 2013 #81
treestar Jun 2013 #11
roamer65 Jun 2013 #13
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #27
SCVDem Jun 2013 #35
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #42
roamer65 Jun 2013 #50
siligut Jun 2013 #15
7962 Jun 2013 #41
siligut Jun 2013 #44
rastaone Jun 2013 #16
SCVDem Jun 2013 #17
Kablooie Jun 2013 #28
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #31
mbperrin Jun 2013 #18
nradisic Jun 2013 #23
RainDog Jun 2013 #24
Kablooie Jun 2013 #25
Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #26
G_j Jun 2013 #30
WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #32
malaise Jun 2013 #34
gulliver Jun 2013 #37
nineteen50 Jun 2013 #38
Kablooie Jun 2013 #39
grasswire Jun 2013 #65
tblue Jun 2013 #91
moondust Jun 2013 #40
Blue Owl Jun 2013 #43
BrotherIvan Jun 2013 #45
Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2013 #46
SHRED Jun 2013 #47
SHRED Jun 2013 #48
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #55
marshall Jun 2013 #49
suffragette Jun 2013 #54
midnight Jun 2013 #57
KoKo Jun 2013 #58
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #59
rhett o rick Jun 2013 #62
Historic NY Jun 2013 #63
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #64
Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #66
davidpdx Jun 2013 #67
ReRe Jun 2013 #69
WillyT Jun 2013 #70
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #71
glinda Jun 2013 #72
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #73
glinda Jun 2013 #118
cui bono Jun 2013 #76
Swagman Jun 2013 #77
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #109
sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #78
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #110
Zorra Jun 2013 #79
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #111
AzDar Jun 2013 #80
greiner3 Jun 2013 #82
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #83
myrna minx Jun 2013 #84
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #85
myrna minx Jun 2013 #102
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #107
myrna minx Jun 2013 #143
sibelian Jun 2013 #86
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #112
atreides1 Jun 2013 #87
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #113
DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #88
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #114
kentuck Jun 2013 #89
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #115
raouldukelives Jun 2013 #90
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #116
wandy Jun 2013 #92
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #119
wandy Jun 2013 #121
Octafish Jun 2013 #94
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #120
SunSeeker Jun 2013 #95
ctsnowman Jun 2013 #96
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #122
War Horse Jun 2013 #97
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #124
NoMoreWarNow Jun 2013 #98
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #125
NoMoreWarNow Jun 2013 #144
snagglepuss Jun 2013 #99
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #126
hedgehog Jun 2013 #101
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #127
avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #103
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #129
emulatorloo Jun 2013 #104
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #130
questionseverything Jun 2013 #105
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #131
WillyT Jun 2013 #106
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #132
Marrah_G Jun 2013 #108
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #133
DCBob Jun 2013 #117
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #123
DCBob Jun 2013 #128
scarletwoman Jun 2013 #136
DCBob Jun 2013 #139
blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #134
forestpath Jun 2013 #135
timdog44 Jun 2013 #140
ecstatic Jun 2013 #141
b.durruti Jun 2013 #142

Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:06 PM

1. Agreed!

It is not like corporations in America have ever acted outside the law or anything.

Cheers!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:06 PM

2. No more fine with it than turning over much of our military to private mercenaries...

who are likewise beholding to no one, no matter what horrific acts they commit in our name.

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #2)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:27 PM

61. Or turning over the manufacturing of defense weapons to our potential enemies. nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #61)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:02 PM

68. ..or turning over the prisons and schools.

The whole thing stinks to high hell and its going to end very, very badly.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:08 PM

3. In a Corporatist Republic, who else would corporations trust to spy on everyone?

Also, any growth industry is where the bucks are. So naturally they would wish to push out the public sector competition as much as possible.

Something this episode, like the Iraq War and the Obamacare Debacle and the Wall St. (non-)scandal before it, should really bring home for people -although there still seems to be a terribly high barrier to acceptance - is how fully integrated corporations and the state they use to 'administer' us have become.

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Response to kenny blankenship (Reply #3)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:57 AM

93. +1, the Democracy you learned about in school is a myth

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:09 PM

4. It create plausible deniability for the government.

They can always point to a company and throw the blame and then give them immunity.

See how that works. Happened once already.

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Response to boston bean (Reply #4)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:44 PM

29. No, it created adaptability

Regulations on civilian government employees make it difficult to lay people off. Technology changes, and so technology needs change. But the old employees are still the ones on the job. Some will retrain as needed, but not all of them. At which point you're left with someone who's worked there "forever", can't work on the latest stuff, and you can't lay off without moving mountains.

The government likes contractors for any "IT-ish" system because the government can fire the contractors at will.

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:58 PM

52. It's not just the government. Banks, for example, LOVE the idea of disposable workers

 

I'm fighting my ass off against it!

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #29)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:27 PM

60. Throw-away technology requires throw-away people?

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #60)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:08 AM

74. No, more like technology moves faster than the employment regulations. (nt)

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Response to jeff47 (Reply #74)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:44 AM

75. Employment, employees.

Why don't we talk about people? People with families, children to educate, parents to care for, people who get sick, who buy houses and then get foreclosed?

"Employment regulations" strikes me as a way to avoid facing the cruel facts.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:09 PM

5. some seem to have no problem with it

because it's "legal".

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Response to G_j (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:11 PM

8. And then when it's determined it's not legal, here comes the immunity.

Quite a racket going on there

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Response to boston bean (Reply #8)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:40 PM

22. Racket

Exactly. Good word.

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Response to G_j (Reply #5)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:38 PM

21. "Some" have no problem with it because Obama told them what to think about it.

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:10 PM

6. It's all private. Security, Intel, War, hell, even the people who feed

the troops are private.

It's all about money. Not safety, not security, not politics, only $$$$$$$$

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Response to NightWatcher (Reply #6)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:35 PM

19. Nail on the head.

And the private companies are owned by cronies of the people who wage the wars, or perform the security. All at a very inflated price. And the things these people do are outrageous. They have immunity from any crimes they commit. Ii remember a party over in Afghanistan where the mercenaries were giving themselves enemas with vodka and then another one would drink it when it was expelled. Now this is worth about what, $150,000 a year. All these mercenaries are, are former special forces guys who go back as "consultants".

Very much like the revolving door of government, lobbyist and corporations that benefit from the lobbyist who used to be a congressman who use to be a high ranking exec in a corporation who use to be - well you get the idea.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:10 PM

7. That is another excellent point. These massively wasteful, ineffective, unconstitutional policies

 

are also being managed by private third parties, unaccountable to the American people.

There needs to be a serious discussion about these policies no matter what your politics are, and it needs to happen ASAP.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:11 PM

9. Remember, Obama is the president

 

so everything that the government does is ALL GOOD

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Response to burnodo (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:15 PM

12. Everything it does is not solely attributable to him.

Some people are using Obama and Government as complete synonyms.

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Response to treestar (Reply #12)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:50 PM

33. except for the good things

 

right?

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Response to burnodo (Reply #9)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:11 PM

56. You understand that part of the logic here is that privatization removes oversight:

POTUS is head of the Executive branch, but that gives him approximately zero power over the contractors who provide "intelligence" services

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:13 PM

10. Did you just now find this out? How can that possibly be? George H. W. Bush

ring a bell? Ex-CIA Director. Was there at the very beginning of the CIA. Did a very big favor for some people in Dallas. Was responsible for Iran-Contra and got off Scot free. Ex-President?

Ronnie Reagan made it legal for George. And you do realize who was running the show then, right? It wasn't Ronnie. He just looked real nice. Had some simple ideas like: Communism Bad. America Good.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:20 PM

14. I actually do know all that history, I'm 63 years old, I lived through it.

My OP is a challenge to the DUers who are caught up the pro/anti-Snowden arguments to think about the bigger picture.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #14)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:56 PM

51. Ok.

I didn't realize you'd lived through it. I was in SIGINT so absolutely none of this is a surprise to me. Except that anybody is surprised. Good god they just passed a law renewing this crap in December.

But most don't talk about the privatization aspect. They used to visit our unit. We didn't like them much.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #51)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:06 PM

53. I really appreciate hearing of your personal experience of this.

Thank you!

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #14)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:38 PM

137. Then there is also the situation that regardless of whether this PRISM is

popular with the public or not, the Constitution was written to guarantee that we wouldn't have such fascistic activities arise.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #137)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:43 PM

138. The Constitution is only going to work if we INSIST on it.

If we don't object when it's abrogated, then our Constitution has been rendered inoperable.

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Response to DevonRex (Reply #10)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:35 PM

20. Yep...they just hired an actor to play the roll.

Here is proof...Who can tell a president to "speed it up"?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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Response to zeemike (Reply #20)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:52 PM

36. ^Post of the Day^

Yeah, that video proves -- without a shadow of a doubt -- that Raygun was just a frickin' figurehead for the GOP machine.

"Speed it up", indeed.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #36)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:59 PM

100. Actually, every president since...

 

Has been the figurehead of Wall Street, that includes Big Dog NAFTA man, too.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #20)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:17 AM

81. Can you imagine;

 

If Leo were to say this?

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:14 PM

11. The Bush administration contracted all sorts of things out

Applications for SSD I remember were contracted out. It came of their believe the private sector does everything better.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:16 PM

13. You remember Christopher Boyce?

Google his name.

They outsourced as far back as the 1970's.

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Response to roamer65 (Reply #13)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:44 PM

27. Yes, and McDonnell Douglas has done very well all these years.

You might even say they're untouchable.

The marriage between private contractors and our National Security State is truly an abomination. And you're absolutely right, it goes way back.

Have you ever read this: The Origins of the Overclass?

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:51 PM

35. McDonnell Douglas?

 

They no longer exist. Not since 1997. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas

So much for doing well.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #35)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:03 PM

42. Sorry, you're correct. However, they didn't exactly die, they merged with Boeing.

I imagine that the end of the Cold War was quite heartbreaking for them.

I'll bet that the contractors of today will fight mightily against ending the War of Terror.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #27)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:55 PM

50. Thx. I'll give it a read.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:20 PM

15. Considering that I "wronged" some RWers years ago and they decided to ruin my life . . .

According to them, I have been watched ever since. Yes, it sucks and of course I don't trust them, they are greedy, ruthless, shitheads. They also view Democrats as the enemy.

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Response to siligut (Reply #15)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:01 PM

41. What did you do?

 

Not asking for anyones name or anything, just curious what was considered "being wronged"

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Response to 7962 (Reply #41)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:28 PM

44. I worked for an HMO and to save money they were misdiagnosing heart attacks

I suggested to one patient that he get a second diagnosis and when asked, told the wife of another patient to transfer her spouse to a different hospital.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:22 PM

16. Lets not forget the

 

Potential for blackmail or insider trading. Very scary

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:26 PM

17. Perhaps without the private contractors

 

we wouldn't have endless wars!

There would need to be a draft and we know how well that would go over.

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Response to SCVDem (Reply #17)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:44 PM

28. We might not even have this overbearing intrusion into our privacy.

It's certainly a cash cow for the private contractors that they don't want to lose.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #28)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:47 PM

31. Bingo!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:27 PM

18. I approve of his leaks, as I approve of casting light onto wrongs anywhere.

The whole notion of massive non-event related spying is repugnant and only more so being done by the private sector.

I got myself an FBI file in the 70s by writing a little too much in the editorials of the student paper about the evils of government.

Ask if you have one - they make interesting reading.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:41 PM

23. Amen

this guy had only been working for Booz Allen for 3 months as an NSA contractor and he saw enough stuff to do what he did...

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

24. A subsidary of the Carlyle Group

what could POSSIBLY go wrong.

They had the foresight to include members of the Bin Laden on their board because, really, for the movers and shakers of the world, it's flat now, right? Or something like that?

We don't need no stinkin' protection from corporations. They're people.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

25. Good point

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

26. Constitutional Rights...For Sale! Discounts given for campaign contributions!

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:46 PM

30. Monsanto Turns To Blackwater For Increased Security, Intelligence And ‘Infiltrate Activist Groups’

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:48 PM

32. Totally agree

Been saying this for years.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:50 PM

34. +1,000

Frightening

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:52 PM

37. Republicans like it that way.

It is obviously something that should be done by government employees. But tell the Republicans you want to put national security ahead of someone getting to make money, and they will just stare at you.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:53 PM

38. It is spelled

F A S C I S M

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:59 PM

39. And it's totally controlled by The Carlyle Group!

From the 2012 booz allen stockholder's report:

As of the record date, an entity controlled by The Carlyle Group, or Carlyle, owned shares of our Class A common stock representing greater that 50% of the combined voting power of our Class A common stock, Class C restricted common stock and Class E special voting common stock. As a result, Carlyle owns sufficient shares of our voting common stock to assure the presence of a quorum for the conduct of the annual meeting and to assure the approval and adoption of the proposals in connection with which this proxy and the related materials are being delivered.

4 of the board members are from Carlyle.

---
The Bush family, the Saudi Royal family, Osama Bin Laden’s family and Donald Rumsfeld’s inner circle – these are just some of the high profile figures who have played a direct role in the rise of one of the most powerful and influential and secretive firms in Washington.
The company is called The Carlyle Group. And in the wake of the events of September 11th and the invasion of Iraq, its power and influence have become significantly stronger.

Here's a link to a documentary if you'd like to learn more about the Carlyle Group:
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/iron-triangle-the-carlyle-group-2/

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #39)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:49 PM

65. OMFG

A plague, a plague on humanity. The Carlyle Group.

I once questioned the number one reporter of the Washington Press Corps why they did not report on the conflict of interest existing in the Bush family's interest in the CArlyle Group while George W. had thepower to send American soldiers to war. (Carlyle Group being a defense contractor). This reporter, Ron Fournier, wrote in reply that he had never heard of the Carlyle Group.

BS.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #39)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:33 AM

91. Poppy still gets intelligence briefings

The Bush family has turned our gov't into one great big racket. He is not the respectable, decent member of that clan. That man is the evil genius behind the whole evil enterprise.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 08:59 PM

40. Profits first!

Does anybody really think a corporation is going to sacrifice their maximized profitability by expending the time and resources necessary to ensure that some obscure, below-the-radar, possibly labor intensive, security procedures are developed and enforced, such as, say, full and proper compartmentalization?

I don't. But then, I've always had concerns about the practical loyalties of private government contractors.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:17 PM

43. Private eyes, they're watching you...

They see your every move....

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:40 PM

45. Indefensible

Though I await the calls that Bush started it! so now we should totally accept it with a cherry on top. Defending the indefensible is insanity.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:41 PM

46. Halliburton will be in there somewhere.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:44 PM

47. Everything is for sale when Capitalism is the real God

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:48 PM

48. We are paying a corporation to spy on us

 

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Response to SHRED (Reply #48)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:10 PM

55. Well said! Ain't capitalism great?

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 09:54 PM

49. And they no doubt sell our info for more profit

I was taken aback a few weeks ago to get a random job offer by email from a company that hires university instructors for Taiwan. How on eart, I thought, could they have thought I was interested, because I don't usually receive unsolicited legitimate job offers of this or any type through email.

Then after this story broke I thought about the fact that I call Taiwan twice a week and receive two calls a week from Taiwan. I wonder if this company somehow got a hold of my records.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:07 PM

54. K&R

Very disturbing.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:17 PM

57. K&R...

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:18 PM

58. I suspected when this first broke that the "Private Contractors" were involved.

In the push to Downsize the US Government the "brilliant thought" was to "Outsource" what the Government used to do with it's own workers. So Outsourcing was the New Thing. It would "supposedly save Taxpayer Dollars" and allow the Govt. to Outbid Contracts to have Competition.

Instead what we got is PAYING those Private Contractors MORE than our own Military, or Career Govt. Employees (who did get health care and some pension) over giving More to Outsourcing with Friends of Presidents and Miltary the CHOICE JOBS...

I could write more...but the breaking news tonight means that few have time to read...and those who already know like you and I are just trying to get it out there...and hoping a few might have memories refreshed about all this we've been through and what we have, hopefully learned, from the "Privatization and Outsourcing" of our Government to what in many cases is rapacious, greedy gougers embedded in the Military, Corporate Wall Street Enterprises who are using our Tax Payer Dollars to RIP US OFF with Privatization of our Military, Schools, Hospitals and whatever else they can pull off to make more money to enrich their own Companies/Corporations/Think Tanks and Wall Street Enterprises plus more.

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Response to KoKo (Reply #58)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:22 PM

59. Exactly! Well said! (nt)

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Response to KoKo (Reply #58)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:29 PM

62. Maybe we should just outsource our government to Halliburton. nm

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:30 PM

63. Exactly, civilians not even sworn government employees...

they are all working for profit.

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Response to Historic NY (Reply #63)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:35 PM

64. Loyalty to the Bottom Line, not to democracy. (nt)

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:50 PM

66. It just keeps getting uglier

great post!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:02 PM

67. That bothers me as well

If they were going to do such a thing as collect information, outsourcing the entire thing to a public company is too risky and too dangerous. I'm sure the politicians that set this up years ago are bought and paid for though.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:18 PM

69. Seriously!!!@!!@!!

We are the effing job creators! Why aren't we getting all these phones, cellphones, computers and internet access, all of our multi-media, FOR EFFING FREE!!!!!!!???????

No, it is NOT okay. If one wants to privately communicate with anyone now, it has to be person to person, out in a boat in the middle of an effing lake somewhere!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:50 PM

70. HUGE K & R !!!

 


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Response to WillyT (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:53 PM

71. Thanks! (nt)

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:20 AM

72. Mining this data gives total control over heading off any problems

to their attaining their private interests. This is soooo sucky on every level.

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Response to glinda (Reply #72)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:25 AM

73. Keeping the War on Terror going most certainly serves their interests!

And we'll never really know how much private money went into lobbying Congress to renew the Patriot Act. It's the goose laying golden eggs for these contractors!

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #73)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:52 PM

118. It is even more than that. It is where you shop, what you buy, what you see....

e v e r y t h i n g
The amount of control having ALL info and communications on people can deliver ahead of time arguments for or against things by steering the public via Laws, media, etc.... even setting up "crisis" in order to spark conversations/debates in order to change Laws and Funding. That is it they are the Majority and have that OverLord power. Which they do.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:14 AM

76. But then our govt is pretty much a private contractor at this point.

They don't work for us anymore. I see no branch of govt truly representing the people any more. They are all corporate.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:25 AM

77. I share your rage and I am furious that nit-pickers are still moaning about whether

Edward Snowden or Bradley Manning is a whistle-blower or not and don't seem to comprehend or care that fascism is rapidly advancing upon us and these are all indications of how easy it is being done.

Fuck you I say to them.

Bob Dylan :"to live outside the law you must be honest"

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Response to Swagman (Reply #77)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:27 PM

109. Classic misdirection - "Look over there!"

Pay no attention to the festering corruption eating away at our democracy...

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:40 AM

78. In the end we are going to find out that is not and never was about terror, it is all about money.

I could not agree more, who are these people who are spying on us?

And why do they need all this data? Is it for business purposes? Are they data mining to find out people's habits so they can sell them more stuff from third world countries?

Is that why they are fighting so hard to keep us from seeing what it is really all about? Is THAT what the law suit meant when they accused the administration of 'abusing the law'?

Is that why Bush was doing it also? How embarrassing for them if it turns out it was to promote more business for the Corporations and had nothing to do with 'security'?

Everything is about money. I believe this is also. I do NOT believe it is for our security for a minute.

And yes, private contractors, who are they? And who are they really working for?

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #78)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:32 PM

110. It's not for OUR security, it's for control by the Overclass.

If you haven't read this yet, I hope you will:

"The Origins of the Overclass" by Steve Kangas

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 05:27 AM

79. Excellent point. Thanks.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #79)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:33 PM

111. Thank you, back!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:05 AM

80. K & R

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:19 AM

82. I see;

 

A certain poster is absent from posting on this, and ones in a similar vein.

Just saying.

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Response to greiner3 (Reply #82)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:02 AM

83. I would hazard a guess that I and those other OPs are on "ignore".

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:30 AM

84. K&R.

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #84)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:31 AM

85. Thanks!

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #85)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:52 PM

102. It's good to see you, friend.

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Response to myrna minx (Reply #102)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:09 PM

107. It always gladdens my heart to see you!

We're both still here, after all this time!

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #107)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:34 PM

143. It gladdens my heart to see you too!

That you, me and "busy hands" Kurovski are still here causing trouble makes me happy.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:02 AM

86. "meeeeehhhh, you're PARANOID...."



You're quite right. It's grotesque.

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Response to sibelian (Reply #86)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:36 PM

112. "Grotesque" is an excellent word for it!

Thank you.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:22 AM

87. Most of those contractors...

Are supervised by government employees...which means that those "fucking" PRIVATE CONTRACTORS are carrying out surveillance with government knowledge!

His company gains nothing by his actions...

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #87)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:40 PM

113. Sure, nothing but a big fat contract. And a vested interested to continue to profit from

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:41 AM

88. Thanks for bringing this up

And I will raise you this:

People wonder how come the US has fared poorly in war since WWII. In WWII, there was a crime called "war profiteering", in other words, you were not encouraged to see wars as a means of getting rich.

Now, it is expected. Now even a Vice president can use it to enrich his former company.

Meanwhile, families go to Florida gun shows to buy their solider kids miltary equipment,like bullet-proof vests, things these 'contractors" cannot seem to do.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Reply #88)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:47 PM

114. There's a great explanation of how this works, here:

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 09:44 AM

89. Excellent point!

It is set up to fail. It is not a trustworthy program.

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Response to kentuck (Reply #89)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:49 PM

115. It's set up to fail US. It's set up to kill our democracy. (nt)

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:29 AM

90. K&R Hell no I don't think its fine. Feel like all I ever talk about is how we are being sold out

stepped on and relegated to the trash heap by those who prefer Wall St rule to Main St democracy.
Want to find someone who thinks what is happening is better than fine? Who silently financially backs and profits from the takeover? Find an investor.
No travesty, no human suffering, no loss of freedom, no loss of the environment, no more foul and soulless acts could be committed than corporations already have, no more reasons could be given for anyone who even slightly considers themselves a benefactor of the weak, a crusader for social justice, a friend to nature or a defender of the Constitution to abhor it.

Like the song says, for the love of money people will steal form their brother, and boy howdy, do they.

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Response to raouldukelives (Reply #90)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:51 PM

116. We HAVE to talk about how we're being sold out.

It's really our only hope to fight back - arousing indignation.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 11:45 AM

92. Do you remember the devil Gun Lobby we have talked about so much of late...........

Do you think that Hardware, Software, Maintenance, and IT services companies do NOT have lobbyist?
This type of surveillance involves an enormous amount of equipment and personal.
Thirty years ago a company I know of charged $300.00 an hour for IT services. Do you think they paid the employee that?
Their is much money to be made in surveillance.
Profit that would make a Ferengi weep!

Sad to say this is another case where we will have to deal not only with our elected officials, but also the people they represent.

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Response to wandy (Reply #92)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:56 PM

119. Well, since the people our elected officials actually represent are the Oligarchs,

that's where we're at. The War on Terror is a major cash cow for all the Defense contractors - they will NOT let it go.

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #119)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:00 PM

121. The problem identified. Here, and in many other places.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:37 PM

94. Thank you for putting the situation into words, scarletwoman.

Democracy just got stronger.

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Response to Octafish (Reply #94)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:58 PM

120. If there's any hope of saving democracy in this country, it will only happen when enough

people understand what's really happening and get outraged about it.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 12:44 PM

95. K & R

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:47 PM

96. And we are

willing to put social security cuts on the table to pay for this shit.

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Response to ctsnowman (Reply #96)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:03 PM

122. Wow! Great point!



Thanks!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 01:59 PM

97. Now THIS is a good point N/T

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Response to War Horse (Reply #97)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:12 PM

124. Thanks! (nt)

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:18 PM

98. absolutely-- plus they are undoubtedly overcharging the govt and ripping us off

 

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Response to NoMoreWarNow (Reply #98)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:14 PM

125. Oh, not to worry. The government has PLENTY of money to spend on the National Security State.

Social Security? Not so much...

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #125)

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 07:35 AM

144. sadly, that is so true

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 02:49 PM

99. Hear Hear. That point is being lost. Back in the 70s my Dad was outraged how the

Canadian National Railway began changing scheduling so that trains would pull into stations at 4:00 am. Such changes brought about abrupt reduction of riders which allowed the CN to drop a lot of train service and increase their trucking business which was more profitable. I see the same thing happening here. These private spying companies have a vested interest in manipulating preceptions so best serve their interests.

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Response to snagglepuss (Reply #99)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:16 PM

126. "These private spying companies have a vested interest in manipulating perceptions so best serve

their interests." Exactly!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 03:06 PM

101. NOW WE'RE TALKING!

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #101)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:17 PM

127. Thank you! (nt)

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:20 PM

103. You got a helluva a point scarletwoman.

 

Thanks for the thread.

k&r

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Response to avaistheone1 (Reply #103)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:19 PM

129. Thanks for the feedback!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:35 PM

104. Agree 100 percent on Private Contractors

Makes me ill.

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Response to emulatorloo (Reply #104)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:21 PM

130. It's intolerable, imho. (nt)

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 04:51 PM

105. well said

i would also add,what a waste of money for us as taxpayers to be paying to spy on ourselves

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=10054

brad has been doing a great job reporting on this

and this mother jones article adds additional insight

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/justice-department-electronic-frontier-foundation-fisa-court-opinion

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Response to questionseverything (Reply #105)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:22 PM

131. Thank you so much for the links!

I'll go read them as soon as I can.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:01 PM

106. Hey SW !!! - Did You Catch THIS:

 

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Response to WillyT (Reply #106)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:27 PM

132. Wow! Thanks! Great piece!

I'll pop over to comment shortly.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:11 PM

108. Very true

The whole thing is so fucked up.

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Response to Marrah_G (Reply #108)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:29 PM

133. WAY fucked up!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 06:51 PM

117. This I agree is a problem.

but I dont knowif this will be wasy to resolve. The government is very reluctiant to hire more employees in the current budget situation. Contractors are seen as a less expensive way to get work done.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #117)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:10 PM

123. Are you so sure that contractors are "less expensive"?

Contractors are making PROFITS hand over fist. And they use that money to hire lobbyists to make sure that Congress paves the way to their making even MORE money.

The War on Terror is a big money maker - and as long as private contractors are making profits from it, you can be sure it will be an endless war.

Is this really how you want your government to run things?

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #123)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:17 PM

128. Generally speaking, they are...

since they can easily drop the contractor at anytime but an employee they cannot.

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Response to DCBob (Reply #128)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:34 PM

136. Sure, because a contractor making $1.3 billion in profits will just go quietly,

and never even think of using its billions of dollars to lobby to keep its position.

Do you really not get what a stranglehold the Oligarchs have on our government?

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Response to scarletwoman (Reply #136)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:49 PM

139. some have a "stranglehold".. the vast majority do not.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:31 PM

134. We're all Germans now.

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 07:32 PM

135. K&R

 

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:01 PM

140. In a word or perhaps two.

Fucking agreed.

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:18 PM

141. Equally troubling is the growing list of congress people who voted for it but claim to not know

what was going on. Well why the hell not?! You're elected and paid to pay attention to the bills you're voting for FFS!!!

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Response to scarletwoman (Original post)

Mon Jun 10, 2013, 08:18 PM

142. Thank you, you speak for me. -nt-

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