They are attempting to normalize the step-by-step elimination of the Constitution.

[Fire Walk With Me]

Because TERROR!

Just like the phony, massively profitable "war on drugs" before it, the "war on terror" is a neocon scam brought forward into today.

Please note that there are serious discussions on DU at this time regarding when and where we should set aside the Constitution itself.

Because TERROR!

With the militarized police response to the Occupy Wall Street movement, 7400+ citizens brutalized and arrested in what seriously amounts to domestic terrorism (force and threat of force against the civilian population in the interest of having them alter a political position or behavior), we have effectively lost the 1st Amendment, in terms of serious, get in their face and tell them to do what's right modes, of civil disobedience.

With the war upon TERROR!, with the neocon/Bush FISA and other warrantless wiretapping schemes and other, even worse surveillance state automata, we have lost the 4th Amendment. And some here are actually putting forth arguments about when and where this must occur.

Give away the Constitution, and you will find it not so very easy to reinstate. Consider this.

Also consider their exit plan for the war on TERROR!

There isn't one.

Consider THAT for a moment. They are creating the state of permanent warfare depicted in George Orwell's "1984".

They are attempting to get us to accept as normal, that the Constitution -must- go away BECAUSE TERROR! And it all stems from a neocon power grab, the project for a new American century. There is zero reason for Democrats, Occupiers, hell, anyone to accept this neocon bullshit.

But how does it occur?

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." ~Noam Chomsky

Such as, when and where to set aside the Constitution of the United States of America.

Please watch for this here and elsewhere. It is anti-American. It is anti-Constitution. It is pro-neocon. FUCK the neocons, and those who would say we should support their plans. We have also lost the right to a speedy trial and even representation in court through the 2012 NDAA section 1021, so that's another Constitutional guarantee summarily snipped away essentially forever, right before our eyes.

ENOUGH. Resist with all your passion and knowledge, those who would burn the founding documents of our country

BECAUSE TERRORS!

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. Thank you to the DUer who pointed out and awoke some of this within me. n/t

[mick063]

2. The neo cons have royally fucked this country up.

They relish the idea of putting a handful of religious zealots in the same stratosphere as the former Soviet Union.

Too much money at stake to cultivate world peace.

Must always have a major threat to justify the killing industry. Might as well piecemeal the constitution to guarantee future presence as well.

[Th1onein]

3. Agree. KICK

[woo me with science]

4. Huge, huge K&R

This desperately needed to be said. Thank you.

[snappyturtle]

5. The terror meme is very productive and they've stepped up the pace.

We should be afraid. I know I am and I just don't understand folks who actually believe the gov't has made us safer. To me all they have accomplished is to increasingly piss off the globe with profit driven motives....profit is behind all of this. I say "No more" to cyber 'kettling' and "Hell no" to messing with the Constitution.

Edit: Big ol' K&R! Thanks.

[markpkessinger]

6. Perfectly and beautifully stated. Thank you! K&R n/t

[sabrina 1]

7. And yet, when asked what is the most important issue on the minds of Americans

terror is way down the list. Most people are worried about jobs, losing their homes, getting sick with no HC, feeding their children.

So who are these cowardly scaredy cats who are willing to give up their Constitutional Rights so easily?

Most people I know never mention 'terror' and I don't think any of them are afraid of dying in a terror attack..

Are we really such a cowardly nation that we are willing to live in fear, give up rights, agree to government spying, in order to feel safe? Because if that is the case, the terrorists can stop now, they won. And we need to stop pretending to be a democracy, raise the white flag, just admit we gave up and be honest about it. It's the hypocrisy more than anything, of claiming to be this great democracy when you people right here on this forum stating they are willing to give up some rights to be safe, yes I saw that tonight, they are willing to 'trust the President' to 'do what is right' so they can be safe. But they will still claim to be a democracy and brag about how great we are.

[Fire Walk With Me]

8. I know that you know that TERRA! is a superb distraction from jobs, and this:

Weapons of Mass Distraction.

[rhett o rick]

11. Good point Sabrina. It's not a democracy if you choose to live under total authoritarian rule.

Sadly the apologists right here in DU City lash out at any mention of the losses of Constitutional rights. They stick with their denial of the assaults on our freedoms and liberty. Where one might say, if there is a question, let's err on the side of freedom and liberty, they choose trust and faith in lieu of common sense and skepticism.

[Fire Walk With Me]

40. Keep an eye out for them. Challenge them. Point out that they are supporting the gutting of our very

founding freedoms and guarantees for the benefit of the neocons and the Bush Disaster Family.

Hardly Democratic values, so why...?

[rhett o rick]

47. I have tried but it is hopeless. Their need for the comfort that authoritarian rule gives them

overrides freedom and liberty. This is exactly what happened in Germany. A wonderful book by Milton Mayer, "They Thought They Were Free", explains how fascism comes creeping in like a lazy fog.

[lunasun]

63. NONE ARE MORE HOPELESSLY ENSLAVED THAN THOSE WHO FALSELY BELIEVE THEY ARE FREE.

[Javaman]

9. They don't need to get rid of the whole thing...

Granted, each Amendment is related to the other Amendments in one way or another, however, if you eliminate the 1st and the 4th all the others become basically meaningless.

All the Amendments are based on the simple facts that freedom of speech is upheld and privacy is upheld in order for them to be properly be granted as rights.

once they are removed, then it becomes, as george w. moron* once said, just a piece of paper.

[WinkyDink]

12. Actually, Bush called it "a G**d**ned piece of paper," the good Christian patriot that he is.

[DissidentVoice]

46. Yes...

And the Fourth has long been abandoned, at least where border crossings are concerned.

I live in a border city. SCOTUS ruled some years ago that the Fourth does not apply in "border zones."

In contrast, when you cross into Canada, as soon as you cross the international border you are under the full protection of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

On this side, your Constitutional rights do not exist until you have been cleared by CBP.

Anyone who has been pulled in for a "random" secondary inspection knows how utterly frightening it can be.

All in the name of "security."

[awoke_in_2003]

50. Does the 1st really exist anymore?...

If you have to ask permission to protest it is no longer a right.

[Javaman]

66. Good point. nt

[ucrdem]

10. This sounds an awful lot like 2nd amendment fundamentalism

and I suspect it's coming from the same source.

[byeya]

14. I honestly don't think so although you could be correct. I think it's Neocon driven and is

especially useful for those who want US foreign policy in the mideast to be directed by Israel.

[ucrdem]

15. That's more or less what I mean.

They're both handy wedge issues, and now we have 2nd amendment crusaders coaching right-leaning swing voters to get their hate on and 4th amendment crusaders coaching the rest. Convenient, eh?


ETA: don't agree with the Israel part except to the degree that it's used as another wedge issue.

[sabrina 1]

17. Our Constitutional rights ARE fundamental to this democracy. How odd that you would

repeat that old defense of Bush's lawbreaking when this issue was first leaked and at the time, still illegal. I remember his supporters calling anyone who objected to being spied on as 'zealots' and 'fundies' out to 'get' Bush as if he did not take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution.

If you think that protecting Constitutional rights is just 'fundamentalism' then you will need to talk to everyone who took the oath that states 'I swear to protect and defend the Constitution of the US from all enemies, both foreign and domestic'. They need to stop agreeing to take that oath is what you are saying.

People won't miss the comparison of Liberal Democrats to the Tea Party. You'll have to be more subtle if you want to have credibility.

Btw, did you support Bush when he used the telecoms to spy on the American people?

[ucrdem]

19. I repeated no such defense you're making things up as usual.

And if you want to play the you-sound-just-like game you're starting to sound like a Bircher. So let's not go there.

[sabrina 1]

21. So, why are Liberal Democrats who expect their representatives to abide by the oath they took

similar to fundamentalists in the NRA? To the Tea Party I believe you said? If I am misinterpreting you, then please explain what I misunderstood and I will apologize.

[byeya]

18. I agree with you and thanks for setting me straight. I will say this: I think ther middle east

would benefit from a much smaller US presence in that region.

[ucrdem]

22. Thanks and it's funny you mention it because that's exactly what's going on.

Obama has steadfastly refused to engage with Iran militarily and while the sanctions are indefensible IMHO the Neocons have been livid about his Iran policy since he took office. And Kerry as SoS is currently conducting a diplomacy blitz trying to hammer out a peace with Palestine and the rest of the ME including Syria that makes a lot of the permanent war profiteers like the Carlyle group very nervous. And that in my view explains a lot of the recent funny business.

[byeya]

23. Yes, the President could easily have taken the bait by now and it's to his credit that he has not

except - perhaps - for the alleged cyber-attack.
The Carlyle Group - not a plus for our society are their activities in my view.

[Fire Walk With Me]

38. I'm an Occupier. Fuck the neocons (if you didn't see that in my OP), fuck Israel's government.

And attempts in this thread to belittle and spread fear against a pro-Constitution declamation may serve to prove my very point? Active fear-mongering against those pointing out that we are losing our founding documents BECAUSE TERROR!

Proves Chomsky's point, proves my point.

[b.durruti]

60. Keep up the good fight! Occupy! -nt-

[Fire Walk With Me]

35. I'm an Occupier, not a militia man, but thanks for validating the Chomsky quote and the point of my

thread.

BTW, if you didn't know, the DOJ consider the Occupy Wall Street movement to be low-level terrorism, so I'm a terrorist.

BOO!

[nineteen50]

59. And that is why this is so scary

the power elite meta-mining to decide intentions in order to claim terrorist and enact and validate punishments etc

[Fire Walk With Me]

61. A little "Minority Report"-ish, eh? As Woo Me With Science mentioned elsewhere,

it's definitely designed to create a chilling effect upon protest and dissent. Occupy are already considered low-level terrorists by the doj, so I know I'm being spied upon to some extent.

A government of this sort must be brought back to doing the will of the people of this country. Period.

[byeya]

13. It was early in the Reagan administration when the words terror and terrorists were pushed by Ron

and quickly picked up by the NY Times, the networks, and other "respectable" news outlets. It was an overnight deal and all those who wanted democracy vs a USA propped up dictator were terrorists while the Contras never were - as the coverage went in the M$M.

Of course, home grown mass murderers were never terrorists - confused or angry loners - although the death toll continues to be high.
When the French sunk the Greenpeace ship in port, it was not terrorism although now they are calling whale protection on the seas "piracy" now.

The shot is: You have to use the accepted nomenclature to get a chance at coverage; and to get a chance at coverage, you are denying reality.

[WillyT]

16. HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!!

[forestpath]

20. knr

[woo me with science]

24. kick

[Initech]

25. The war on terror is really a war on American citizens.

What was that quote from Ben Franklin? Those that trade freedom for security don't deserve either?

[undergroundpanther]

26. terror? WTF

You cannot fight terror it is an emotion,and right now with people's houses getting seized and the spy shit among a thousand other abuses of power are the real reasons to be terrified is what is happening to our rights the law and the very social agreements this nation had to protect against tyranny.Tyrants have no place in our government,or society yet they are there,yellin' 911'terror terror1!!1,when the source if terrorism 'round here is,the rich1% corporations,mega-churches,and the neocons that scare and exploit people in them right HERE.And it has ALWAYS been the right wing that was a cancer,the plutocrat pigs,and the insane notion corporations must profit economy must grow etc.,. Fuck with people's lives,abuse them fuck with society,lie,manipulate,buy everything,kick around the poor, fuck with wages,profit off misery fuck with the laws as if it never applies to you,enough...blow back can happen here too, but in the form of millions you stupid control freak,sociopath fanatic,richy rich selfish asshole,moral degenerate,useless,greedy,evil hearted,whiner,parasites,fuck you!

[clarice]

27. ENOUGH. Resist with all your passion and knowledge, those who would burn the founding documents of o

especially the second ammendment.

[backscatter712]

28. Keep in mind that the feds consider Occupy to be a terrorist organization.

These authoritarian reptiles are itching to be able to supermax anyone they want for daring to dissent, or protest, or organize, or otherwise question their authority.

By virtue of stating your opinion here, you're a terrorist, and the authoritarian quisling brigade would love to shut you up by force.

[woo me with science]

33. +1

[Fire Walk With Me]

36. Absolutely. As Woo Me With Science pointed out in another thread,

the metadata collection and surveillance state through its very existence are attempts and hints to lay off the protesting; we've got your number and all of your friends. Want to risk our wrath?

That of course is domestic terrorism.

And yes, "they" consider Occupy to be a terrorist organization:

Cop strongly implies Occupy presence means increased terrorism threat; Federal agents at parade

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022137604

Mind you, this is in regard to Los Angeles' Occupy Fights Foreclosures group. Here is an example of their terrorist acts:

LA Times: An ugly foreclosure story, starring B of A

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002559792

and what terrorist acts they've done:

OFF press conference TODAY 5 PM Dirma's house

BREAKING NEWS: BofA rescinded sale and foreclosure. Pls Join Us!

To the banks, that IS terrorism!

[Laelth]

29. The 4th Amendment is darned inconvenient to your local totalitarian.

I agree. Resist! It may not yet be too late.

-Laelth

[Gregorian]

30. I rec'c this, and went to bed. You've said so well what I have been thinking.

Sometimes words just don't come. That's the great value of the forum. The collection of minds. And our minds seem to be very much aligned.

I just hope Americans can grow up before it's too late. I just hope it isn't too late.

[Octafish]

31. What NAZI Germany and Imperial Japan together couldn't accomplish...

...nor the Soviet Union and Red China...

...is being done to our Constitution -- and that means our nation and We the People as government.

[TakeALeftTurn]

32. Exactly and well said

More people are waking up this all the time.
We need MANY more, to stop it.

[formercia]

34. The Enabling Act. Germany 1933


The Enabling Act (German: Ermächtigungsgesetz) was a 1933 constitutional amendment that played a critical role in the rise of Adolf Hitler to become the dictator and Führer of Nazi Germany by August, 1934. It passed in the Reichstag and signed by President Paul von Hindenburg on 23 March 1933. It followed the Reichstag Fire Decree, that gave Hitler plenary power. It received its name from its legal status as an enabling act granting the Cabinet – in effect, the Chancellor – the authority to enact decrees without involving the Reichstag. The act stated that it was to last four years unless renewed by the Reichstag, which occurred twice.
The formal name of the Enabling Act was Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich (English: "Law to Remedy the Distress of People and Reich&quot . This legislation was ostensibly passed at the Kroll Opera House, where the legislators were surrounded by, and threatened by, Nazi troops; over one hundred legislators were refused admission.[1

--snip--



Background

After being appointed chancellor of Germany on 30 January 1933, Hitler asked President von Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag. A general election was scheduled for March 5 1933.
The burning of the Reichstag six days before the election, depicted by the Nazis as the beginning of a communist revolution, resulted in the Reichstag Fire Decree, which (among other things) suspended civil liberties and habeas corpus rights. Hitler used the decree to have the Communist Party's offices raided and its representatives arrested, effectively eliminating them as a political force.
Although receiving five million more votes than in the previous election, the NSDAP had failed to gain an absolute majority in parliament, depending on the 52 seats won by its coalition partner, the German National People's Party, for a slim majority.
To free himself from this dependency, Hitler had the cabinet, in its first post-election meeting on 15 March, draw up plans for an Enabling Act which would give the cabinet legislative power for four years. The Nazis devised the Enabling Act to gain complete political power without the need of the support of a majority in the Reichstag and without the need to bargain with their coalition partners.

--snip--

Article 2

Laws enacted by the government of the Reich may deviate from the constitution as long as they do not affect the institutions of the Reichstag and the Reichsrat. The rights of the President remain undisturbed.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

[rhett o rick]

67. I think we are by-passing the need for such an Act. nm

[Phlem]

37. Who is Terror.

S/he needs to be put behind bars right away. Oh wait it's everybody and everything.

we're fucked.



-p

[DLevine]

39. K&R. nt

[silvershadow]

41. Kick because I have been paying attention since 2000, and particular attention since 2004. nt

[Fire Walk With Me]

42. Highly recommended DU link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022984967

[haele]

43. This is what happens when you run "government like a business" -

And can make a profit off it.
It becomes the best government money and lobbyists can buy - and this sort of spying on the citizenry is totally in line with all the other data mining corporations and for-profit social organizations have been doing over the last couple decades. This sort of surveillance just the next step if you're part of a large, profitable investment organization that has a vested interest in keeping the political status quo and protecting one's operational capabilities in any nation state. Minimize the possibility of competitors and pacify the population one is feeding on.

Doesn't surprise me that we came to this point in the least - too many private corporations have taken over the responsibility for running the people's government, and the collective "we" was willing to do it because we wanted to make money - including hundreds of thousands of those who were willing to work on government project but weren't willing to "put up" with the lesser pay government workers tend to get in comparison to their private-sector compatriots.

Our elected officials are basically businessmen, partners to investment groups and think tanks, and getting more "private" hands in the public pots of money benefits them far more than doing actual governing for the citizens that elected them. I think the last real actual hope for a citizen-based government that followed constitutional ethics we've had was during the Carter presidency, but he was out-spent and was pummeled enough by moneyed interests that no one would be willing to take them on for the citizenry.

So now, we pretty much just have factions working against each other on a level above most of us in the US.
Most of the "leaks" I've seen int the past 10 years (post 9-11) appear to have been planted by political opponents where previously unlikely "whistle-blowers" could stumble upon all this evidence they would not normally have access to and be able to play the victim to the press.
Again - it's not that what is being done in the shadows is acceptable, it's that the manner in which most of it is coming out is suspicious, and should equally concerning.

Get the profit out of government - even though it's probably too late now with the entrenchment of private contractors (and yes, I'm one, too...). That's the only thing that will stop the erosion of rights and citizenry.


If we don't do that, all we end up with is being robbed blind while we're letting ourselves be mollified by the spectacles of Bread and Circuses, rah, rah, rah.

Haele

[matt819]

44. Point Taken

And I don't know about the rest of you, I'm outraged out:

2000 election
9/11
Patriot Act
Afghan War
Iraq War
Endless War on Terror
Guantanamo
Economic melt-down
Foreclosure mess
Destruction of middle class
Tea Party
Congressional Gridlock
Cuts in head start, food stamps, and the like
Privatization of government services
Privatized prisons
Inaction on immigration reform
Increasing numbers of American in poverty
Increasing numbers of homeless and hungry Americans

Whether this was the plan of the neocons or not, it is where we are right now. And it's beyond fixing.

[Puzzledtraveller]

45. And to vilify and discredit each other based

on the most petty details, this is an attempt to narrow the acceptable definition of normal as it pertains to someones credibility. It will become so narrow that anyone outside of perceived perfection can not be credible but that won't happen either as what is credible and what discredits will always change.

[rhett o rick]

48. Kick.

[Lifelong Protester]

49. Big K & R

Thank you for saying a lot of what I am thinking.

Somehow, a way to profit from the Constitution has been dreamed up. And it isn't pretty.

[AtheistCrusader]

51. The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed

(and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

H. L. Mencken

[MotherPetrie]

52. K&R

[tclambert]

53. The Constitution was hand-written on paper. That's why the NSA is unaware of it.

Plus, they keep it indoors where the surveillance satellites can't see it.

[Fire Walk With Me]

57. Perhaps we should start all future phone conversations by reading the Fouth Amendment... n/t

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

54. All these "war on -----" have common threads

Fear, tax dollars, politicians and corporations.

[DirkGently]

55. It's like Pterodactyl spray. Can't prove it is or isn't

working. But as a wise candidate once said, the choice between civil liberty and security is a false one to begin with.

[blkmusclmachine]

56. We're all Germans now.

[b.durruti]

58. FUCK the neocons indeed! ~nt~

[lunasun]

62. NDAA seemed not to raise the outrage it deserved by most

once that was signed without folks coming in the streets I think it became open season on the Con
as a whole

[uppityperson]

65. +1

I agree

[ReRe]

68. K&R

... Yes! End the "Create Terror War!"