The crematorium has been burning bodies for years

[mick063]

Why are people suddenly uptight about it? This is old news. Many of the politicians that we trust are fine with it. The reporter that wrote about this is a liar. The alarmists are in a tizzy over nothing. These actions are a price we must pay for security. The alarmists are simply trying to discredit our leader with trivial bullshit.


DU time warped to Germany 1942.

Bottom line: You can rationalize wrong until you are blue in the face, but you still can't make it right.

We are watching history being made. Sometime in the future, people will scratch their heads and wonder how we willingly accepted the crematorium of our constitutional protections. Illegal search and seizure is now acceptable. How could entire communities watch the ash fall on their town and do nothing about it?

The Patriot Act has such a fascist tone to it. Bin Laden won.

[Recursion]

1. And.... Godwin at one post. Well done (nt)

[mick063]

3. Yep Godwin

Yes a great argument. A true debate champ.

Honestly, I use the analogy to bring the Godwin folks out of the woodwork.

They wouldn't know fascism if it slapped them in the face. Too preoccupied with Godwin to know any better.

[Recursion]

4. What do you think "Godwin" means?

The actual phrasing of Godwin's law is that as an online discussion continues, the probability of one participant being compared to Hitler approaches 1. The notion that the side doing that has "lost" is apocryphal. I just think it's funny when it happens initially.

[stupidicus]

16. As I recall, Godwin's Law addresses

the hyperbolic, etc use of such comparisons with a motive to end the debate, not the use of appropriate comparisons where others then misuse the law in an effort to end the debate -- like here. Absent a inarguable showing that the use of a nazi comparison is hyperbolic, etc, then those invoking the Law have nothing but guilt for an attempt to end the debate themselves.

I'd bet if I claimed that our gov was increasingly conforming to the definition of facsism the Nazi's followed -- the marriage of the state and corps -- I'd be in violation of Godwin's Law too.

To me that's what is so amusingly silly about many of the apologists of this stuff -- they are likely or think themselves to be on the front lines of the fight against the monied interests, the military industrial complex, ect, that they see as prevailing (in terms of political power, etc) in this country over we little guys, but can't see how this kinda stuff might be a part of that big picture.

and sheeple will always be oblivious

http://walt.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/06/10/what_me_worry_the_real_threat_behind_the_nsa

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022973841

[JW2020]

5. Nope not Godwin.

But nice try shutting down a thoughtful debate. Godwin only applies to long drawn out arguments.

[Recursion]

6. No, it says the probability approaches 1

I suppose you could model it as a Poisson process; this one just flipped on the first try.

And, no, it doesn't mean he "lost". It just means there's no way this thread is going to go well at this point.

[JW2020]

8. "As an online discussion grows longer..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

This one just started off using Nazi Germany as a historical comparison. So you can't talk about NAZIs? That's real convenient for NAZIs.

[Vinnie From Indy]

10. I think Godwin was probably a Nazi and came up

with his law so he and other Nazis could run amok and not be talked about.

Cheers!

[geek tragedy]

27. Comparing the NSA program to Auschwitz etc is not thoughtful but rather nutty and

downright obscene in its trivialization of the deaths of millions.

[JW2020]

29. Please explain to me how an event like the holocaust can trivialized.

I really don't think that is possible. What's wrong with comparing historical events? Our national security spy state just may very well be the opening overtures to a horrible event grandiose in scale just like the holocaust. Aren't we reminded that we are to "never forget" the holocaust?

[el_bryanto]

2. What comes after blue? Face-wise?

Are there any times in which the government might rightfully spy on its citizens?

Bryant

[lame54]

7. If you've got a plan let's hear it

[mick063]

19. How about Obama's plan?

Obama's promise.

Remember his 2008 campaign promise?

Remember the word "transparency"? He used it quite often.

Guess what.....he is a big fat liar.

This is 180 degrees from transparency. This is the administration of secrecy.

A huge campaign lie.

[lame54]

25. I agree - but what to do about it...

everyone is saying we should do something
but no one is saying what that something is

[geek tragedy]

28. So that makes him Hitler in your book.

And please don't sit there and pretend your comparison of the US to Hitler's dictatorial genocide machine that murdered all domestic opponents and worshipped its head of state doesn't imply Obama=Hitler.

Go sit next to Glenn Beck.

[freshwest]

30. +1

[Egalitarian Thug]

9. "Bin Laden won." He/they certainly did, and now we have the reaction one would expect of a child

when faced with the truth that destroys a cherished fantasy.

The Emperor Caligula was wildly popular in the beginning of his reign. He was replaced 5 years later with Claudius.

[mick063]

22. Now we have the response of a submissive sheep

whose cherished fantasy appears to be "I told ya so" on a message board.


According to you, it is more important to "accept" our diminishing personal freedoms with dignity than to become emotionally invested.

Now, excuse me while I throw this "childish" tantrum you submissive milk toast. Watch the ash fall down in a Stockholm Syndrome kind of way and false claim you were always against it about a decade from now....when the real shit hits the fan.


I prefer the historical comparison to Nazis. More appropriate in my opinion.

[Egalitarian Thug]

23. Boy, did you misread that. I am one of the "radical leftists" that has been fighting this battle

since reagan.

Clinton did fool me for almost two years, though.

[OnyxCollie]

11. That was burning bodies I was smelling?

I thought it was BBQ!

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!

[Javaman]

12. sometime in the future people will not understand life to be any other way...

and THAT is terrifying.

[snagglepuss]

15. Actually that future is arguably now. How many people have any concerns

about corporations compiling massive data about themselves? People's suspicion of all things government serves TPTBand their vested interests but really as one considers the fact that private business is being contracted to this workthe difference between private collection of data and "public" is moot.

[Egalitarian Thug]

24. +1 The interesting times have only just begun. n/t

[kenny blankenship]

13. Exactly: we've all been smelling that smell for years now. We've all known what it means.

We knew, despite the authorities never explaining in graphic detail what was going on beyond that fence. And if we didn't all know it, some of us were just not paying attention, and if we never talked about it, it doesn't mean we were terrified to be heard discussing it. And if the authorities never drew us a picture and submitted their plan for our approval, it doesn't necessarily mean they omitted to do this because they knew what they were doing was a violation of some hardly used, moldy arcane bit of forgotten legal text.

It's been going on for a long time now, and no one objected. And there's nothing wrong with letting omission, secrecy and intimidation govern our national decision making process. Not everything has to be explained and understood. Not every law has to be published. Not every arrest has to be announced. Sometimes the authorities just have to tell people to shut their mouths and close their eyes if they know what's good for them. If you're not doing something wrong you'll have nothing to fear.

[tavalon]

14. I'll rec it because I'm pissed, but Godwin, Dude, Godwin.

[heaven05]

17. well said

[zeeland]

20. Makes you wonder if

Bin Laden ever stopped working for "the powers that be."

[gollygee]

21. It is wrong. It just isn't new news.

Which is redundant. It just isn't news. The Patriot Act has been around for ages.

But there is an opportunity here. Now that people outside of DU are freaking out, including a lot of Republicans, about the Patriot Act, maybe there will be changes. Thank goodness this is in the news now even if it isn't actually new.

[geek tragedy]

26. Another idiotic post comparing Obama's America to The Third Reich.

Nice touch comparing data mining to the genocide of the Jews.

It is profoundly stupid to make comparisons to 1942 Germany.

You trivialize the Holocaust with this kind of garbage.

But, DU loving crazy talk these days, it'll be popular.