So you tell me his is a non scandal

[nadinbrzezinski]

So yesterday the local media had a chance to ask a few questions from some of our electeds. For clarity, neither is a back bencher. One has been fully briefed on all this crap over the years. As former speaker and now leader she just does. The other is a member of the Armed Services Community. So when they pleaded ignorance...later said we don't have all the facts, it tells me all I need to know...they are all in.

Leader Pelosi actually claimed the founders had to balance, yada, yada, and implied they would approve...yup, like this guy.

Benjamin Franklin - Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.

I can tell you, the long knives are out. The sub-rosa war with media is quite in the open now. And yes, a scandal.

Oh I think the folks t The Atlantic got it very well...they called this, turn key tyranny.

I would recommend those of you who have n interest read into inverted totalitarian. It is more than a little relevant.

[Laelth]

1. I agree. This is a big deal.

And it's a useful conversation for us to have.

-Laelth

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. They were expecting questions

On the fair pay act, and some immigration...they got some. This...not so much.

I talked to Pelosi's staffer on the conversation at Dulles. I asked about that. Duck! And once I explained El Salvador, Negroponte and dead journalists, that kid lost color faster than a patient bleeding out.

[Laelth]

6. At the moment, as you say, they're "all in."

I hope the President changes his mind on this subject, but it does not surprise me that Pelosi's staff is toeing the party line.

-Laelth

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. And the facts that the long knives are out

In sleepy San Diego should tell them, we are not happy...

[Laelth]

8. Yep. It's just about time for me to go on vacation.

I have been too vocal on this issue.

-Laelth

[FarCenter]

20. I thought that San Diego was one of the most militaristic cities in the US?

Huge Navy presence, Naval Air at Mirimar, Marines in Pendleton, numerous corporations in the military industrial complex.

Without DoD, Homeland Security, DEA, etc. San Diego would be half its size.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. San Diego has been diversifying

And the reality is, we can have a hunger strike (true story) and it will not rise to news even in Los Angeles.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

3. It's a non scandal

Wait. What?

[Recursion]

4. Assuming you meant "this", I'm still not sure what "this" is?

What is your understanding of what's being done? There seems to be a lot of variance on this board.

[reusrename]

12. I know you weren't asking me, but...

here's my take

[MindPilot]

5. Was the other one Susan Davis?

[gcomeau]

9. Explain to me...

...in what way your Liberty has been sacrificed here?

[TalkingDog]

10. Why do you wear a seatbelt? Do you have a lot of accidents?

Why do you go to the dentist or doctor? Are you sickly?

This is not about the problem now. We aren't sick NOW. We aren't in an accident NOW.

It's about understanding that there could be a problem. It's about foresight. It's about knowing, based on the history of civilization, that Liberty is a fugitive thing.

God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are always ready to guard and defend it.
Daniel Webster, speech (June 3, 1834).

And although I'm not a God-believer, I'm in 100% agreement with the rest of it.

You don't keep something intact by ignoring dangers to it.

[gcomeau]

11. Umm... bullshit.

The collective brain explosions and screams of tyranny echoing across these boards are not from some hypothetical worry that maybe at some time in the future something bad MIGHT happen. The claims being made are that some horrible violation has OCCURRED and IS OCCURING

This very OP is speaking in the present tense.

So what the fuck is this violation of Liberty that I'm supposed to be all worked up about?

[reusrename]

13. Example: Dept. of Homeland Security cooperated w/ NYPD to break up OWS.

This is only made possible by using this technology.

[gcomeau]

14. I repeat the call of bullshit.

NYPD was accessing NSA communication archives? Pull the other one.

[reusrename]

15. Yep, call it what you like, but there's no denying that it took place.

This is the first hit from the google.

http://wallstreetonparade.com/2013/04/as-it-spied-on-occupy-wall-street-department-of-homeland-security-fixated-on-media-coverage/

edited to add> the man in the NYPD TARU shirt is Homeland Security

[gcomeau]

16. There's all kinds of denying it took place. Get a grip.

DHS surveillance of OWS had *nothing to do* with the NSA data archiving program.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And you have the clearance to know this

And are leaking secrets.

FYI, tapper denied even archiving of this data was happening but three months ago before an open door senate hearing...in another era we might call that...perjury.

I don't trust God with this power, since absolute power corrupts absolutely, why pray tell me should I trust mere men with it?

You would be good to read into inverted totalitarianism. And hat is just a start on this. Oh and the US is not exceptional regardless of what you are told. .

[reformist2]

18. Europe doesn't think this is a "faux" scandal. Not at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014506421

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Anybody with historic memory gets it

[markpkessinger]

22. +1