Would "Washington Darkskins" or "Atlanta CottonPickers" be acceptable?

[JW2020]

And we find ourselves in the 21st century. "Redskins" is offensive. While we're at it, I think the Boston Celtics mascot is offensive as well.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/sports/professional/football/redskins/nfl-commissioner-goodell-defends-redskins-nickname/article_8e17eef8-d392-11e2-80a4-001a4bcf6878.html

NEW YORK (AP) — NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell says the Washington Redskins nickname is "unifying force that stands for strength, courage, pride and respect."

Goodell was responding to a letter from 10 members of Congress who want the name changed because it is offensive to many Native Americans.

Goodell cited the nickname's origins and polls that support its popularity. He wrote that he understands the feelings surrounding it are complex and could change, but he also point out fan pride in the team's heritage.

[hlthe2b]

1. re: think Boston Celtics (mascot) is offensive as well

Especially since they've never managed to pronounce Celtics correctly.

[Atman]

70. There was a great April Fools story on NPR several years ago...

The Celtics (pronounced with the soft C) were going back to tradition and changing their name to the Celtics (hard C, as in Keltics, the way it it actually pronounced). The people of Boston, apparently unaware of the significance of April first, were outraged, and flooded radio stations with phone calls, and cancelled season tickets.


People are stupid.

[hlthe2b]

74. ha ha ha!

That's great.... (Geebus!)

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

80. Being partly of Scandinavian descent

I've been tempted to picket Vikings games.

[Flashmann]

83. People are stupid

Ding ding ding ding ding...

An understatement worthy of a cigar...Or a kewpie doll...Your choice...

[Egalitarian Thug]

110. The traditional mispronunciation and the fact that Celtic is not derogatory

Makes this one OK, IMO.

[4Q2u2]

2. Robstown, TX

High School teams are called the the Cotton Pickers. Big sign painted on the water tower and the Ball Fields.

[arely staircase]

43. yep

[Iggo]

3. If they had millions of customers, it would be.

Great argument, Commish.

[datasuspect]

4. just to be clear

african american slaves were not the only ones who ever picked cotton, plenty of white tenant farmers and mexican migrant workers did too.

but i get your point though, the reference is especially egregious when placed in reference of the african diaspora and the slavery experience in north america.

so yeah, i agree with you.

[Recursion]

5. They only changed the name to "Redskins" when they moved to Fenway

A lot of people don't know that. When the franchise started out, they were the Boston Braves and they played at Braves Field (now Boston University's west campus field). After the Boston baseball Braves moved (IIRC to Milwaukee before Atlanta), the Boston football Braves started playing at Fenway Park. They wanted a name to tie in with the Red Sox but still be able to keep their Native American-oriented logos, so they changed to "Redskins".

The name was changed once for marketing reasons; it's hard to argue it can't be changed again for marketing reasons.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

8. Here's more on that from Rawstory:

This Washington football team was named by one of the most vehement racists in the history of American professional sports. When George Marshall bought the team in 1932, they were called the Boston Braves. He changed the name — to a slur, because he was a racist — and moved them to Washington. He made “Dixie” one of the team’s fight songs and refused to hire black players well into the 1960s. The NFL integrated in 1946 but Marshall’s team held out until the federal government actually forced them to field black players in 1963. The all-white Washington teams of the 1950s and 1960s were among the worst in the league, but segregation was more important to Marshall than winning football games. The NFL had actually already been racially integrated until black players were suddenly banned in 1933. Interviews with owners suggest that Marshall was responsible for the ban.

This is the man who named the team and white supremacy and racism obviously informed his every decision. In his will he insisted that his foundation not spend any money on “any purpose which supports or employs the principle of racial integration in any form.” It is extremely hard to believe that this man selected the name — specially changed the name from a less offensive term for American Indians to this term — to “honor” anyone, the usual argument used by the team’s modern defenders.
- See more at: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/12/just-change-the-damn-football-teams-name-already/#sthash.2N9iBASI.dpuf

[redqueen]

31. That should be an OP if it isn't already.

What a slimy piece of shit he was.

[Recursion]

93. Seconded

That would make a great OP

[malaise]

85. Thanks for that

Didn't know

[Gidney N Cloyd]

6. Redskins is a derogatory term (and far more offensive than Chiefs or Braves)

[Jamastiene]

7. K&R

[tarheelsunc]

9. Only Native Americans should be responsible for judging what the name stands for.

Hearing a bunch of old white men say it's a name that stands for honor and pride doesn't mean a thing if the very people it refers to disagree.

[Nye Bevan]

21. OK. In a survey, 83% of Native Americans were fine with the name.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sports_team_names_and_mascots_derived_from_indigenous_peoples

[tarheelsunc]

22. That doesn't refer specifically to "Redskins"...

83% of American Indian respondents to a Sports Illustrated poll said that professional teams should not stop using Indian nicknames, mascots, or symbols.

Some of the names ARE meant to honor Native Americans and received that way. This question asks if they feel that teams should stop using ALL names, good and bad. I imagine the results would be a bit different if the question was "Do you find the word 'redskin' to be offensive?"

[Comrade Grumpy]

36. That's my personal experience as well. Most Indians I know don't give a shit about it.

They say they have more important things to worry about.

[frylock]

60. many of my indian friends have embraced the name

[Xithras]

37. Most of the Native Americans I've spoken with have a problem with "Redskins"

My wife is Osage, as are my children because of her. My mother in law and that entire wing of the family is Native American.

The surveys, which my personally experiences support, suggest that the overwhelming majority of Native Americans have no problem with generic terms like "Braves", "Indians", "Chiefs" or "Warriors" and don't really care one way or the other whether they are used in sports. There are certainly activists who disagree, but they tend to be a relatively small minority.

"Redskin", on the other hand, is a derogatory term used to slander Natives. Walk up to a Native American, call him a "redskin", and you're as likely as not to get punched in the face. It's an offensive term in ANY context.

[Iggo]

111. No.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. No, but "Redskins" is.

To me.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

11. The "Washington Irrelevants for 22 Seasons"?

N'est ce pas?

[Recursion]

12. Why you gotta break balls?

Once we get an offensive line, we'll be great.

[kudzu22]

44. Guess you have to settle for an offensive name

[madinmaryland]

75. How many times will RG3 blow out his knees before having to retire at age 25?

[Recursion]

78. At least once more (nt)

[Flashmann]

87. Once we get an offensive line, we'll be great.

Maybe...Assuming that by then,Shanahan hasn't gotten stale and predictable to opposing D's as he did in his last 3-4 years in Denver.Or,once wearing out RG3,replacing him with a noodle armed Brian Griese type imitation QB who'll throw 6 yard hail marys on 3rd and 8.As a 45+year long Bronco fan,I know of what I speak...

Disclaimer idn't mean to offend horses,or horse lovers by using the word "Bronco"...Yes that's a bit of snark,in keeping with the general theme of the thread.

[arely staircase]

46. +1

nt

[reformist2]

13. The feelings are complex? No. If it's offensive to the group it refers to, it should be changed.

[Atman]

16. Then I guess we need to eliminate 90% of DU forums

Someone is offended by just about anything here at any given moment.

[treestar]

41. How is that voted on?

A small sampling of people can create an outrage these days. How do we know a majority think it's offensive? Frankly, I'd embrace it, taking it to mean tough and strong.

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. The Redskins are not going to change their name

[Atman]

15. Yet no one seems to have a problem with the "Fighting Irish"

File this under "Selective Outrage."

- Signed, A white guy of Irish decent.

[JW2020]

17. Is this offensive to you?

Because they have the same lineage as the Notre Dame and Celtics mascots.

[Atman]

19. What if I said it was?

I'm Irish...and I've never been in a fist fight. Fifty-four years on Earth, and while I've been drunk plenty, I've never been in a fist fight (the ND mascot is a little leprechaun guy with his fists up, ready to fight). Would we be okay calling the Notre Dame's team "The Drunken Irish Leprechauns?" I'm offended by fist fights involving drunken Irishmen. But since I'm just a well-off white guy, it's okay to mock my background.

Soon, we'll have to name all sports teams LOLCATS and Laughing Babies. But then, those might be offensive to grumpy cat, dog lovers, and the scowling babies.

[JW2020]

20. So you are fine as being portrayed as a monkey.

If somebody drew a picture of you, depicted as a monkey because of your Irish background, you are fine with that? Because you are white. By the way, you weren't always considered to be "white" in this country.

[Atman]

24. Huh?

Where did I say I was "fine" with being portrayed as a drunken Irish leprechaun? (Monkey? Where did that come from?) I'm pointing out the hypocrisy and lunacy of the entire "mascot" thing. Notre Dame has millions of dollars invested in their "brand," as does the "Redskins" franchise. I'm not saying it's right. I'm certainly not endorsing it. I'm just acknowledging that once again, Americans' priorities are directed toward "protecting" anyone who isn't of white European descent from having their feelings hurt. Maybe it's historical guilt for having plundered the North American continent. But, again...soon we'll just name teams The Fluffy Kitties or The Cute Baby Animals. But I'm sure SOMEONE will still be offended.

BTW, I think it's hysterical that anyone who would call an Irishman "not white." Although, in the summer we're usually pink and/or freckled.

[Flashmann]

33. SOMEONE will still be offended.

I think it's safe to bet the farm on that...

hypocrisy and lunacy of the entire "mascot" thing... Americans' priorities are directed toward "protecting" anyone who isn't of white European descent from having their feelings hurt... it's historical guilt for having plundered the North American continent...

[madinmaryland]

76. Were you offended by the DU'er who went by the name "Drunken Irishman"??

[Atman]

81. No.

Why would I be offended? Maybe he actually is a drunken Irishman! But a team mascot means more than an individual's screen name. A mascot represents a TEAM, and the image they want to portray. A screen name is about the individual.

[Atman]

26. I should alert on you...

I got a post hidden the other day, and locked out of my own thread, because I used words like that. The context didn't matter -- I was pointing out that Archie Bunker had used words like this all the time in the seventies, to illustrate prejudices. I listed some of the words, and the DU jury was outraged and offended. As a person of Irish heritage, and a DU, I feel I should be OUTRAGED at your use of the word Mick.

But I'm not. Because I'm a grownup.

[Flashmann]

28. I've had that happen three times

Posts hidden because someone took issue with HOW I said something,while not disputing the points being made...Sad.

[Atman]

30. It doesn't happen to me as much anymore because...

...26 members of the terminally outraged now have me on ignore.

There are so few people left reading my posts that no one bothers anymore.

[Jenoch]

32. I once got a post hidden

because of a typo and two of the jurors said it was just a typo but the post was hidden anyway.

[Flashmann]

34. because of a typo

Not surprising...I see a constant parade of folks here,who have no issue with WHAT is said,even agreeing many times,yet take great offense at HOW it was said.Often times to the point that what was said is lost in the shit-storm of imagined intent and their versions of grammatical correctness ...Yeah...It's happened to me three times,but I see it every day.

[CokeMachine]

88. Watch out -- I'm keeping an eye on you now!!

When should I start alerting. Please say something about my Polish/Italian heritage -- I dare you!!


I tell my friends that I'm half Polish and Half Italian which makes me Irish. I get to hear all of the good jokes!!

[Atman]

95. That's HALF offensive!

[CokeMachine]

96. Only half???

Do you know who I am -- I was expecting at least 3/4?? And, I gave up watching you (maybe -- you'll never know -- again maybe).

Have a good night!!!!

[Eleanors38]

112. You mean like the Half-ass U. SEMI-noles?

[arely staircase]

47. "Being Irish, I guess I should resent the Notre Dame nickname, "The Fighting Irish."

After all, how long do you think nicknames like "The Bargaining Jews" or "The Murdering Italians" would last? Only the ironic Irish could be so naively honest. I get the feeling that Notre Dame came real close to naming itself "The Fuckin' Drunken, Thick-skulled, Brawling, Short-dicked Irish.""

George Carlin

[Atman]

64. I, uh...I...

Better not say a damned thing in response.

[CokeMachine]

90. Remember I'm watching you!!

[Flashmann]

23. Redskins" is offensive.

To who,exactly?...My Grandmother,on my Moms side was Shawnee,making me a quarter.I'm very proud of that heritage.I'm not nor have ever been offended by the term "Redskins" as a name for a sports team.Not one of my cousins,born from any of my Moms 7 brothers and sisters has ever expressed any offense.
I have several very close friends who are of Navajo or Potawatami descent.Not one of them has ever whined about the word being used as a team name,that I've ever heard...EVER!Another close friend,who I love like a brother,is 100% Mescelero Apache and also is a huge fan of the NFL.He's not offended and is instead amused and bewildered that someone might be.Redskin,to us,does not carry the hurt of a word like the "N-word" or some other ethnic slurs that you'd hear from an Archie Bunker type might.
While not all of those folks are football,or even sports fans,the name thing occasionally comes up in discussion.The general consensus,as well as my own opinion,is that it seems the people who usually seem most offended by teams named Redskins,Indians,Braves,etc.,are usually not of any native heritage,in our personal experience,and have no dog in the hunt,causing much amusement and head shaking among us...
My Apache friend,who BTW grew up on an Arizona reservation,and who generally and almost radically hates white people,takes it even further.That this show of concern over our "sensibilities" amounts to just so much bullshit.That the time for meaningful concern was 150 years,and more,ago when the white settlers stole the land and resources and murdered and lied their way across the country.
I haven't met and don't know every Native American,and don't pretend to speak for them.Of the many I DO know,including myself,this is "making much ado over nothing."

That's my rant...Let the flaming begin...

[Atman]

25. I'm also boycotting redskin peanuts!

I agree...it always seems to be the white guys who are offended. If these people are really, seriously offended, they should do something about the injustice we've done to Native Americans. Don't worry about multi-millionaires' sports teams.

Now, excuse me...I'm going to get drunk and punch somebody, because at least that doesn't seem to be offensive to some. Selective outrage.

[arely staircase]

48. hey here is a solution

they should keep the name but change the logo to one of those peanuts.

[Atman]

66. There you go!

"The Washington Redskin Peanuts!" How could that possibly be offensive?

[Atman]

94. BRILLIANT!

The Washington Redskin Peanuts!

[CokeMachine]

91. In case you forgot -- I'm still watching you!!

OK, it's getting old now (but I'm still going to keep an eye on you).

[reformist2]

27. This is what it's all about - if it's offensive to Native Americans, it should go. If not, it can

stay.

[Flashmann]

29. I believe it is not...

[Whisp]

35. are Apache helicopters still around?

I read a Chomsky book many years ago and he was saying that if that helicopter was called anything else like 'jew' or 'irish' or something like that, it would be unacceptable, but native americans can be used and insulted in this way, that's okay.

[pipi_k]

38. Don't know if

they're still around, but I've never thought of the name Apache helicopters as being an insult.

I think it's an awesome name, actually.

Makes me think of an Apache warrior...

strong. brave. handsome. determined.


all positive attributes.

[Whisp]

69. on the surface maybe

but we know how natives are spoken of and treated and usually strong, brave, handsome and determined aren't at the top of the list.

Natives were considered blood thirsty killers and not quite human.

[Jenoch]

39. Apache helicoptors

(Boeing AH-64 Apache) are still being built in Mesa, Arizona.

[hamster]

102. Chomsky was pointing out

that the Germans don't name their aircraft the Gypsy or the Jew.

[Whisp]

107. That was it. It's been so long. Thank you. n/t

[hamster]

115. You're welcome

And thank you, I'd forgotten all about it myself until you said something.

[treestar]

40. I don't see why they go out of their way to be insulted

It means you are a formidable force, like a lion, a tiger, a bear, a bengal, a pirate, a bronco.

Of course they then ran out of such things and became things that aren't so threatening like a white sock, a cardinal, an astro, a bluejay, a met, or a phillie.

Darkskin would be offensive since it would not refer to some force thought to be strong.

The name wasn't intended to refer to oppressed groups. It was intended to make the team sound formidable.

[SomethingFishy]

50. Did you see this link from post #8?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/06/12/just-change-the-damn-football-teams-name-already/#

Apparently the name was not chosen because it makes them sound "formidable".

Are you saying that every "formidable" name in the english language was taken and that's why we have teams like the "White Sox?" Really?

The name Redskins isn't personally offensive to me. However, it wasn't my country that was raided, it wasn't me that was put on reservations, it wasn't my beautiful land that was destroyed to build strip malls and fast food joints. So who am I to judge what insults that person?

There is a difference between being overly "politically correct" which I think we are, and just being an asshole and insulting someone because you are too lazy to come up with a new name...

[treestar]

63. That's even weirder

If he's a racist and then he names the team after a racist term. He's naming them after the people he considers inferior.

What of Braves, Indians and Chiefs? "Redskin" is pretty racist when you get down to it, sounds like reference to skin color alone. Whereas the others are not quite like that.

[SomethingFishy]

67. None of the names bother me...

But if they bother someone else then I have no problem changing them..

It's not like a name change is the end of the world. In Denver our "Mile High Stadium" was taken from us. Now it changes names every freakin year. Teams have been bought and sold and survived name changes.

Yeah I see the point about being too politically correct but there is a line and "Redskin" probably crosses it...

[treestar]

71. My pet peeve is names like Veteran's Stadium

being substituted with "Citizen's Bank Park." All that sucks. Team names are better to attempt to reflect the area, such as Pittsburgh Steelers, IMHO.

[Nimajneb Nilknarf]

42. I think Miami Bluehairs has a nice ring to it.

[DreamGypsy]

59. How about the Miami Q Tips?

In conversation with a friend from Florida he casually described following a Cadillac full of Q tips.

I almost hurt myself laughing.

[forestpath]

45. It's an offensive name and I consider anyone who defends it to be racist.

I was born in DC and have lived in the DC area all my life, BTW.

[Flashmann]

53. I consider anyone who defends it to be racist.

I don't exactly defend it so much as I am not offended by it,neither is anyone I know,and I'm saying that as a partial Native American.Half of my extended family and many of my friends are at least partial,with none of us,not ONE,being offended by a team name.
If that qualifies as a defense,so be it...

So am I to understand you'd consider me,as well as half my family and countless friends of American Indian heritage,to be racist against OURSELVES?

That's special,priceless,ridiculous and hilarious all at once...

Racist would,to me,be something along the lines of the "Tucson Border Jumpers" or the "Anaheim N-Words"...Chiefs,Braves,Redskins,Warriors,Indians??...Nah...Especially since some 80% of folks of Native American heritage,just like me and supposedly by poll,also don't consider the Washington Redskins or similar team names to be racist.

[forestpath]

55. Wow, so defensive.

[Flashmann]

58. No not really

Realistic and able to speak from a position of authority...I have no pressing need to defend myself against an overwhelmingly asinine statement and subsequent flawed judgment,such as yours.Merely wished to get and maybe provide some clarity.
The fact that you declined to answer whether you consider some dozens,(that I personally know and including myself),of real-life,actual "Redskins" *racist* is telling,but we both know there is no good answer.One makes you contradict yourself and the other illustrates ignorance.Either makes you appear foolish.

[Comrade Grumpy]

56. I consider anyone who makes statements like that to be stupid.

So there.

[LittleBlue]

49. I don't see anything wrong with it

If it was racist at one time, it isn't anymore.

The reason sports teams compare themselves to Native Americans is the view that they are strong and brave. How is that racist? We know from history that they were exceptional warriors who, but for a lack of technology and viral resistance, would have won. Is this view offensive? To me it's about as offensive as Vikings are to people of Nordic ancestry.

[arely staircase]

51. mascot mania by jello biafra

When I was young
Saw football games
At the great big stadium
Could tell the fans
From out of town
By the clown suits they had on

20,000 red cowboy hats
Means cornhuskers to you
Mickey Mouse beanies
With tiger ears
Shows you cheer ol' Mizzou
Let's not forget the Razorbacks
From the U. of Arkansas
With plastic pig snouts
On their heads
Soooooeeeeeeing, "How 'bout them Hawgs?"

That's mascot mania

I work all week
At a job I hate
Where everything goes wrong
Weekends what I live for
To your church I belong

I cross the street in San Francisco
When a chump comes out of a bar
Yelling "Forty-fuckin-Niners, man"
With his gold and red jacket on

In Cleveland, throwing dog biscuits
Shows how much you love them Browns
While Bronco fans just hang their heads
When the Superbowl comes around

Raider jacket dollars
Got the White Sox wearin Black
Statues of Joe Paterno
Sold in gift shops at Penn State

That's mascot mania

Don't make fun of religious rituals
In any place
Lord help you if you laugh
While they do this with a straight face

Outside of the United States
It gets even more bizarre
In Tokyo they got a baseball team
They call the Carp

The Salmonbellies are the pride
Of New Westminster B.C.
C'mon Greg Werkman, what's a Hoosier?
And why do they throw chairs?

When Sudbury Ontario's
Hockey team scores a goal
They drag a stuffed wolf
Across the ice
A fan shot at it once, ya know

That's mascot mania

Blue Streak
Horned Frogs
Long Horns
Trojans

Someone better tell Tipper Gore
About the names of these here teams

Tar Heals
Gamecocks
Blue Devils
Crimson Tide

Real Indians
Sick of Redskins
And Tomahawk chops

It seems to me
That to stay mean
These names should change with time

The New York Muggers
Detroit Murders
And Chicago Mob

Boston Bigots
Texas Swindlers
And the L.A. Cops

Miami Drugs
New Jersey Dumps
Take on the Denver Smog

Seattle Fads
New Orleans Hoods
Milwaukee Cannibals

San Diego Jarheads
And the Arizona Drought

That's mascot mania

Go, Carp, go!
Salmonbellies rule!
Hit 'em harder Cops!
But, a hockey team called The Mighty Ducks?

Head explode when Dallas Oswalds
Meet Washington Bribes
Home team band plays Cop Killer
When L.A. comes to town

Pittsburgh Polluters
Houston Drive-Bys
Don't stir near the fear

When the Florida Abortion Bombers
Meet the San Francisco Queers

That's mascot mania

Anywhere you go
The games the same old thing
Bet your money on the Bribes
They always win

[DreamGypsy]

61. Great song. Haven't heard it. Took me forever to find the album...

...Prairie Home Invasion.

Collaboration with Mojo Nixon in 1994.



Thanks.

[arely staircase]

62. i saw them on that tour back in the 90s

nt

[clarice]

52. How about...The Washington Eavesdroppers? nt

[LostOne4Ever]

54. Of course its offensive

But they are never going to change it. Native American issues hardly get any coverage from the press, people in general HATE change, and the corporation makes way too much money to ever change it.

Its like the pledge, and the national motto. We all know that its wrong but nothing is ever going to be done about it and some will even defend it.

[Atman]

65. But Notre Dame's "Fighting Irish" is not?

Tell me more...

[LostOne4Ever]

73. Whose saying its not? (nt)

[Atman]

97. Who is saying it is?

No one.

But let's not offend the Native Americans.

Selective outrage.

[LostOne4Ever]

98. There are native american groups who explicitly state they are offened

Nothing selective about it.

Of course if it was something offensive against African americans or hispanics then there would be no-one trying to say its not offensive.

[Atman]

100. That's ridiculous.

Just look at DU. We have people who get outraged at ANYTHING. Seriously, would you be in favor of forcing Notre Dame to change their mascot? As a person of Irish heritage, I find it offensive.

If the Washington Redskins used a peanut as their mascot, would it make the name okay?

[LostOne4Ever]

114. Are you saying that whenever someone says something disparaging about another minority

That its ridiculous? Because some people at DU will get outraged at anything?

That a woman who is forced to endure sexism should not be offended because again someone at DU will get offended at anything?

That a hispanic man should not get offended if a team decided to call their team a disparaging word for illegal mexican immigrants and have a mascot that was a caricature of that stereotype because some people at DU get outraged at anything?

That an Italian family should not get offended at the suggestion that all Italians are part of the mafia because someone at DU will get offended at anything?

This is horrible horrible logic that can be used to try and legitimatizing anything.

But as I said in my original post in this thread its not going to change. There is not enough support to overcome the corporation capitalizing on it, the people who hate any type of change and the team fans. Hell, the people who normally would stand up against this sort of thing will simply look the other way because it affects one of their favorite past-times. But it does not change the fact that the name is offensive. This is true of the "fighting irish" just as well, and again its not going to change for the exact same reasons.

And, no, changing the mascot to a beer nut would not magically make the name okay.

[Zoeisright]

106. Show me where the Irish face systematic oppression

and you may have a point.

Unfortunately, Native Americans are still discriminated against. Grow the fuck up.

[Atman]

108. Thank you for completely missing the point.

If you don't believe the Irish didn't face "systematic oppression" in the past, you've got a poor recollection of history.

And that is my point.

Why is it okay for you to support one stereotype -- a fighting, drunken Irishman -- over another? Be consistent. Is it only because we Irish still drink and fight but now are considered "white," while one poster in this thread equated us to MONKEYS? But since Native Americans are still struggling, they shouldn't have sports teams named after them? When will it become okay to call a team "Redskins?" When they live in South Boston? Please clarify.

Grow up, indeed.

[Purrfessor]

57. Washington Partisans eom

[burnodo]

68. complex?

Complex for Goodell maybe.

[alphafemale]

72. The term "redskins" also was a term for bloody scalps

Taken from the bodies of murdered men, woman and children by people who would collect bounty from their slaughter.

That is appalling and disgusting.

But I think there is very little chance the team will change their name.

And while I would like if they changed it, it is not something I am going to spend much energy worrying about.

[Ian David]

77. Funny, how there aren't teams called The Navajo Pale Skins or The Iroquois Round Eyes. n/t

[dogknob]

79. You still care about pro sports? One of the first things that needs to GO! n/t

[Hoyt]

82. In Atlanta, up until early 1960s, the minor league team was called the CRACKERS.

[libodem]

84. Ya know

I always assumed that Caucasians were called crackers because we were white like a saltine cracker. Then I read, here, it is because we were the whip crackers. That hurts a little bit more. I hate to think of being lumped in with slavers.

[ileus]

86. Let's just hope RGIII is OK'd to play.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

89. great documentary on this

In Whose Honor

[MrScorpio]

92. Frank Luntz tackles Redskins name issue

By PATRICK GAVIN | 6/12/13 9:06 AM EDT
Should the Washington Redskins change their name? Political consultant Frank Luntz is looking into the question.

ThinkProgress reports that Luntz will conduct a focus group on Thursday “where it will pay participants $100 to share their opinions about the current state of America’s most popular professional sports league and the Washington Redskins, the NFL franchise embroiled in controversy and a federal trademark lawsuit involving its name.”

Five questions involve the Redskins, including, “Which of the following best reflects your opinion of the NFL team name ‘Washington Redskins’?” (options include “I find the name offensive and they should change it,” “I don’t find the name offensive and they should keep it as is”).

ThinkProgress says that neither Luntz nor the Redskins are responding to queries about their involvement in the group but it’s not Luntz’s first involvement in sports. As Deadspin has noted, Luntz has previously worked with the NHL and lists the NFL as among his clients.
Luntz is primarily known for his consulting on how political parties can tweak and shape language to best articulate their ideas.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/luntz-tackles-redskins-name-issue-92633.html#ixzz2W8ZNBSyz

At least the Readskins are using the right guy to facilitate their own racist name.

[Elwood P Dowd]

99. Redskins is better than a name like the Washington Senators.

Redskins were fighters and warriors back in the day. Today's Senators are mostly (with a few exceptions like Warren, Sanders, etc.) cowards, crooks, liars, and worthless pieces of shit.

[liberal N proud]

101. Washington GridLock

They are playing on a Gridiron!

But this like everything else in Washington is not going to change. And besides, someone will be offended by whatever happens!

[Arkana]

103. Roger Goodell is a friggin' moron, news at 11

[LanternWaste]

104. I think one need only look at the decimation, the near-extinction, the forced relocations

I think one need only look at the decimation, the near-extinction, the forced relocations and the horrors western "civilization" has visited upon native Americans-- from the Phipps Declaration to the Trail of Tears to understand the vulgarity and second-class status it directly implies. A quick glance of a history of the usage of the word merely verified that. The American Heritage style guide advises that "the term redskin evokes an objectionable stereotype."

But I do understand that a handful of rich, white, franchise-owners will rationalize it as a neutral term, pointing to other questionable mascots to better justify and predicate their own vulgarity on that of others. "they do it too" is a wonderful argument for and by idiots.

[rurallib]

105. "Redskins" in Washington makes as much sense as "Jazz" in Utah

They could use that as an excuse for changing the name.
Then they could name them after one of the scariest, one of the most powerful groups ever.
How does the "Washington Lobbyists" sound?

[Atman]

109. I like it! Or how about "The Carpetbaggers?"

The possibilities are endless.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

113. I would prefer the Washington Weenies and Atlanta Fluffies.

Their logos would be much more interesting.