How many here feel "meh" about Hilary Clinton in 2016?

[Taverner]

I am not saying I have any alternative. I don't.

Clinton II will be a continuation of Reagan->Bush I->Clinton I->Bush II->Obama, which means an overbloated military, government austerity and tax cuts.

A GOP alternative would be worse - this I know. President McCain or Romney would have us all in, with draft (and exemptions for the rich) in Iran.

Just because something is "better" doesn't make it anything to get excited about.

Sure, I'll vote for her.

What choice do I have?

Vote my heart with the SPUSA?

I might as well write in "Eugene V Debs" like a certain amount do every year.

The system needs an overhaul. Not a revolution, but an overhaul.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. She is a smart, capable, intelligent, motivated woman. IF she is the nominee...

I will vote for her.

I hope she isn't.

The system sure as hell needs an overhaul.

MEH.

[Warpy]

3. She's also very conservative, a New Democrat

That's really not what we need, so I will not support her in the primaries.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. I'm with you on that.

[sabrina 1]

89. I would not support her either. Didn't support anyone who voted for Bush's wars and policies.

We have plenty of options, but they are not war mongers or supporters of Wall St so it's doubtful they will get a chance in today's America.

So my decision for the next election is to do all I can to remove Corporatists and War Mongers from Congress. That is where the power of the people has the most possibility of being restored.

If Congress truly represents the people, then she can be in the WH, I won't care, because no matter who is there, if we have real representation in Congress, the people's business will be taken care of and any power hungry Chief Exec will be reigned in.

[Taverner]

5. She is all of that

But smart and capable can be a double edged sword

[DonCoquixote]

92. Yes

especially when Wal mart says they will pay an awful lot of money for her to swing that sword into your neck.

[giftedgirl77]

2. I concur

I would rather see Elizabeth Warren run & I keep pushing a Palin/Bachmann ticket to the rethugs for entertainment purposes.

[Taverner]

6. Be careful what you wish for....

When Reagan ran in 1976, they laughed at him

When Reagan ran in 1980, they elected him

When Bush started in 1999, they laughed at him

When Bush pulled all his favors, they appointed him

[giftedgirl77]

10. Yeah but as jacked up as our country

is I don't think there's a snowballs chance in Jamaica of those 2 getting elected.

[Taverner]

13. I hope you're right

Hitler was a joke before he took over too

The man was a caricature for the reactionary German - and dumber than a box of rocks

[backwoodsbob]

63. don't understate Hitlers ability

The man understood how to mesmerize the public and we must never forget not just what he did but how he did it.
Some of the right scare me as much as hitler

[Egalitarian Thug]

71. and he knew who held the levers he needed. His rise to power began in

the '20s working for the military in a nation that's military had, essentially, been outlawed.

You had a bunch of generals with no army to lead and a bunch of war profiteers with no market to profit from. They are the people that let him into the club because he was a great speaker and they believed they could control him, he was a nobody, after all. By the time they learned otherwise, it was too late.

Power never cedes power easily, but they are not any brighter than any other group.

[hfojvt]

60. I don't think either of those are true

Kinda hard for even me to remember 1976, but I recall that Reagan almost won a primary against a sitting President. Not exactly a joke of a campaign.

As for Bush, well some people might have laughed at him, but the mainstream press and TV pundits were not laughing at him, although they claimed that they would. Here's how Somerby documents the announcement of Bush's candidacy. http://howhegotthere.blogspot.com/2009/08/chapter-1_20.html

[bike man]

7. Meh. I didn't/don't like the idea of the Bush dynasty, and don't like the prospect of

any other dynasty either.

[nolabear]

8. There is no chance for a liberal Dem to win so I'm behind her.

I don't know what the hell is going to happen next, but we have to keep control of the White House or we are fucked sideways, even if it's just to do a good job of holding on until SuperDem shows up. I kid, I kid...sort of.

[RC]

107. What is the use of keeping control of the White House when Hillary is to the Right of Obama?

We all know how Obama is working out.
Those (D)'s by people's names are meaning less and less anymore. Why don't we start working on electing Liberals, Progressives and those to the LEFT of center for a change. Why do we always need to push those put in front of us by our owners, instead of looking around for better people to run?

[kestrel91316]

9. Me. I like her - I just don't have a burning desire to see her be president.

I always thought she was like Bill as far as cozying up to corporations.

I will always go for a more progressive candidate rather than a moderate.

[carolinayellowdog]

11. competence and incompetence are equally frightening

in candidates destined to be controlled by the Military Industrial Complex. I'll pull the lever for competence rather than raging incompetence which means Hillary against any Republican. But with doubt that she'll competently lead us away from the total domination of the 1%.

[longship]

12. It's a bit early to have a horse in that race.

But I will post my thinking.

Hillary? I don't think I'd support her in the primaries, but I might, depending who else is in the race.

I don't think I'd support Liz Warren either, due to lack of experience, no matter who's running against her. I like her as a Senator. And I think that she's going to be a great one.

I want a 2016 candidate with some experience at the national level. Hillary certainly fills that requirement. But Liz does not, IMHO.

I would support Joe Biden but his age may be an issue.

For the life of me I cannot think of anybody else.

I am very disappointed in President Obama. He just doesn't seem to know what to do about the Republicans. Any candidate would have to first satisfy this complaint.

That's it probably for at least two years for me.

[truebluegreen]

28. Lack of experience could be a bonus...

Elizabeth Warren seems to know who the enemy is, which is more than Obama has demonstrated, imho.

[longship]

57. Who's to say Obama's problems aren't from lack of experience?

He hasn't handled the Republicans very well, IMHO.

I just don't know who I will support, but I do like Warren, but she'd be great in the Senate. We need people there, too.

[truebluegreen]

72. I agree,

Obama has been very unwilling to stand up to his political opponents, or even to recognize them as such. I think that is more a result of his personality and beliefs--among them the idea that he himself can bridge any divide, and make a deal. He has been very slow to let go of that. And I think his political goals are more in the center-right range than many of us are willing to accept. He was talking about Raygun as a transformational figure, and about his own desire for a Grand Bargain even before being elected in '08.

Warren doesn't seem to be having the same difficulties, right from the beginning. In fact, she has been totally unlike other new Senators who are expected to sit down and be quiet and learn the "rules" before doing anything. She has been vocal and up-front about who and what must be resisted. In that regard, she may indeed not be suited for the Senate, the World's Greatest Deliberative Body (just ask them), which seems to place collegiality above actually getting anything done.

[davidpdx]

70. I feel the same about Clinton

In the primary I would have to really see who was running to decide, but I'd be willing to take a chance on an outsider. If she were the nominee I'd vote for her.

As for President Obama, yes he's made some mistakes but I think he's gotten more done then people give him credit for. The Republicans first play was to try to stop him from getting re-elected, that didn't turn out well. Now they are trying to impeach him. You can't force someone to cooperate with you, especially if they are acting like infants. If we had more people in Congress with a backbone it certainly would help.

[HiPointDem]

14. no more clintons, no more bushes.

[reformist2]

31. +1. I want to see Elizabeth Warren and/or Sherrod Brown on the ticket in 2016.

[NightWatcher]

15. Will we ever get someone who isnt part of the machinery?

Old families, entrenched names, dynasties... I wish we had the chance to get more people from outside the old club. I do realize that Obama was not that entrenched, but see the kind of excitement he generated back in 2008.

[Taverner]

17. Obama was not part of the machinery

Then the machinery invited him in, like Clinton, Blair and all before them

Just shows you every man and woman has their price

[truebluegreen]

32. We live in Lesterland!

http://theidproject.org/blog/ethan-nichtern/2013/04/07/welcome-lesterland-great-ted-talk-lawrence-lessig

There's a money primary before the regular primaries. Only people with money get to vote in them.

[Enthusiast]

87. That is excellent.

Everyone should watch it.

[Egalitarian Thug]

67. He auditioned in 2004 and made his deal 3 days later. n/t

[LittleBlue]

16. Don't want her, it'll just be more of the same

There are better alternatives.

[leftstreet]

18. Puke icon. 8 more years of GOPLite DLCrap. Puke icon n/t

[Peregrine Took]

19. Joe Biden - real Democrat.

Recall how he made mincemeat out of the odious Ryan in the debates?

Joe can bring home the bacon and cook it up, too (and I'm a vegetarian.)

I wouldn't trust any of the Clinton's - ever!!!

[davidn3600]

22. Really? How about the way he flip-flopped on NSA spying?

Was against it then, but now he's for it....

[bvar22]

50. The Senator from MBNA?

I don't think so.

[SammyWinstonJack]

64. For that reason alone.

[Le Taz Hot]

66. I also recall

during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings that he made a deal with the Republicans to NOT allow testimony of three MORE women Thomas had made inappropriate advances to. Love Clarence Thomas? Thank Biden for his part in putting him on the court.

[rurallib]

20. Yep

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. meh? More like GACK!

[malokvale77]

23. That made me laugh.

Thanks

[xiamiam]

24. will NOT vote for her..nt

[LuvNewcastle]

76. Me either.

There's no "meh" about it.

[tabbycat31]

25. I'm not even thinking that far ahead

I'm a political staffer who usually works downticket (this year it's a state senate race) and I have to worry about 2013, 2014, and 2015 before I even think about 2016.

[Shankapotomus]

26. She's nominated

She gets my vote.

[cantbeserious]

27. It's Time To Move Past The Clintons

eom

[Jackpine Radical]

29. Meh.

Neocon.

[Egalitarian Thug]

30. If that's the choice, yeah, meh.

Looking at the 3rd parties, or just not bother at all.

[liberal N proud]

33. Unless a better candidate emerges, she has my vote!

Currently there is no one else making a move to be the candidate.

[DCBob]

34. If we want a more progressive left leaning President..

then its time to start identifying a candidate.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. No, No, No!

One more Third Wayer and we're done for.

[Nay]

73. What Manny said. We can't afford another person who goes backslapping among the

Republicans. We would be doomed. Of course, since the vetting process for even getting on the ticket will probably doom us anyway, since no true lefty can get past it, but I can hope.

Another problem: I don't see anyone up and coming who could take these bastards on.

[NaturalCommunist]

36. She isn't liberal enough

We need someone that can continue to push the agenda. More than what Obama has / will.

There is nothing wrong with revolution as long as it an Occupy type movement that gets us where we need to go. We need a stronger government that's willing to level the playing field. Nationalize oil. Ban coal. Force Solar. Stop companies from making obscene profits. Should I go on?

The last thing we need is to settle for someone that will turn back the clock and stop us from building one of the largest most progressive governments in history.

[HooptieWagon]

37. Good lord we don't need a DLC WalMart attorney!

In the Primary, I'll support any liberal Dem over her. If she's the nominee, I'll just have to hold my nose and vote for her in the General, then go home and puke. Dammit, I know I'm never going to be able to vote for a POTUS caxndidate as liberal as I'd like...but can't I just once vote for one halfway there? Getting real sick of DLC/Third Wayers.... fucking RePuke-lites...

[abq e streeter]

38. Profound lack of enthusisasm...of course she has my vote if she's the nominee, but...

yet another (much) lesser of 2 evils.

[Blue_In_AK]

39. Me.

Meh.

I have given up on having a president in this life that meets my specifications. Just the same old same old ...

[madinmaryland]

40. word salad 4 hilary has not commented yet. nt

[Whisp]

43. ?

!

[SammyWinstonJack]

65. heh

[bahrbearian]

75. LOL You got a nibbler

?

[AtomicKitten]

41. DraftGore2016. nt

[BlueStater]

42. Not remotely excited about her at all.

In my opinion, the Clintons have had more than enough time in the spotlight and need to step aside already to give someone else his or her chance.

[octoberlib]

44. I'll vote for her if she's nominated but ..... meh nt

[kenny blankenship]

45. What's below "meh"?

I didn't want her in 2008. Can't think of a reason to change my mind.

I thought I'd give the new guy a try, since he'd surely recognize that if the party base supported him over Clinton it was because they were looking for a real liberal, not a DINO-centrist, and surely he'd recognize that if he won against the Republican candidate that the country wanted a clean break from the Reagan Era. But look how that shit turned out.

If the Republicans were running Hitler, I vote for Hillary. Beyond that, I'm not prepared to promise anything.

[L0oniX]

46. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Nye Bevan]

47. The first female President in the history of the United States

would rate more than a "meh" IMO.

[BlueStater]

52. "Meh" is about right.

If her positions are bad, I couldn't care less about her gender. I don't vote for candidates based on whether they have a vagina or a dick.

[Lugal Zaggesi]

110. What about

really nice tits ?
And a beautiful face ?

I bet that would help in an American election.

[BlueCheese]

48. The 1990s were a really good time for America.

The best thing for the middle and lower classes is a healthy economy. A strong safety net is necessary, but for most people it's plan B. Plan A is having a good job, and in the 1990s, people had them.

Having said that, I'm pretty cynical about politics in general these days, so I don't think I can really get excited about any individual politician anymore. I've been burned too many times.

[doc03]

49. Don't we have anyone else qualified for the job other than a

Clinton or Bush? I have had enough of both them myself.

[SheilaT]

51. It'a beyond meh.

Is there really only ONE possibility three years from now? Really?

To all of you kiddies who are too young to remember, in 1990, a mere two years before the next presidential election, every single viable Democrat decided not to run in '92 because then President George Herbert Walker Bush had just pulled off a very successful war in the Middle East, and it was obvious to the most casual observer that he'd be re-elected in a landslide.

Remember his second term? Remember?

Oh, wait. Some little-known governor of some silly state in the south -- Arkansas, if memory serves -- decided he could run for President. Some guy named Bill Clinton.

Here's my point. Three years from the next election not only is it a total cluster-fuck to be even *thinking* about 2016, but to assume that no one else besides the same old tired names from 2008 could possibly be viable candidates, is crap. Crap, I tell you, crap.

First off, let's worry about 2014. There's a lot of work to do to keep the Senate and to take back the House. After November next year, then we can turn our attention to our next presidential candidate.

And god help us all if no one can come up with a better idea that Hillary Clinton. With all due respect, she's part of the establishment that is so much of our problem right now.

[Egalitarian Thug]

68. You're right, but he never would have been elected w/o Ross Perot.

Clinton snuck in with 42% of the vote and reached his zenith of popularity in the last year of his second term.

Go back to the previous Democratic President, Jimmy Carter captured the nomination because the Democratic Party changed their convention rules and he made them work for him.

There's a very tight control over who is allowed to run in our party since 1970. The '68 convention shook the Democratic power structure to its core, and nothing terrifies them more than the idea of a populist running under their banner.

[Art_from_Ark]

74. Bill Clinton was not just some "little-known" governor of a "silly state" in 1990

He had served as chair of both the Democratic Governors' Association and National Governors Association, as well as the now-maligned Democratic Leadership Council, and he had given the keynote speech at the 1988 Democratic National Convention.

[SheilaT]

85. Bill Clinton was beginning to be known outside of his state,

but he did not really have much national presence three years before he was elected President. What helped him the most was that all the other expected Democratic candidates decided Bush was unbeatable, as if nothing could possibly change in two years.

Ross Perot probably drew as many potential Clinton voters as Bush ones. It's also likely that a lot of those who voted for him would have remained home and not voted at all, so no, Clinton did not win only because of Perot.

[TheKentuckian]

53. Meh would be a big upgrade from here.

[Hekate]

54. I feel some fierce urgency about next year's midterm elections, is what I feel

Where are you on that issue?

[Arugula Latte]

55. Elizabeth Warren would excite me. Hillary Clinton is definitely a big Meh to me.

Or worse.

[B Calm]

69. I second that!

She is hell of a lot better choice than Hillary!

[Douglas Carpenter]

56. She would certainly be an intelligent and capable executive who would be infinitely better than any

Republican. That goes without saying.

A Clinton Presidency would likely minimize the damage that the worst reactionary forces would try to impose. However a Hillary Clinton Presidency will not bring any meaningful fundamental changes whatsoever that are an absolute necessity if our goal is to build a democratic society that provides for all or almost all our citizens a decent life that is minimally stressful, economically equitable and socially stable at home in a nation that is at peace with the world.

[JoeyT]

58. I don't like Bill or Hillary.

I voted for Obama in the primaries because I liked him, but even if I hadn't I'd have voted for Obama in the primaries because he was a Democrat and wasn't Hillary.

I'll vote against her in the primaries. I don't care if it's her turn or not. If she wins in the primaries I'll grudgingly vote for her in the general.

[Monk06]

59. She won't run. She's not interested and after four years as SOS she's had it with politics.

It seems DUers and Freepers are equally deluded on that score.

[HiPointDem]

61. worse than 'meh'.

[Le Taz Hot]

62. More like

[Kolesar]

78. She covered all her bases with the IWR, so she is good to go!

Iraq war success? Hey, I backed America!
Iraq war a failure? Bush and the republicans suck, I'm better !!

[SamKnause]

79. Hillary

She will not get my vote.

I am voting a straight Green Party ticket.

I am sick of the Demopub, or Republidem candidates.

They are against everything that is good for this country and its people.

It appears to me that the Democratic Party is carrying out the the agenda of the Republican Party.

Social issues; abortion, immigration and equal rights are the only thing they differ on.

These are the wedge issues that keep both parties in power.

I am sick and tired of this dangerous tug of war.

It is time to try something new.

[Smarmie Doofus]

80. Oh geeezzze. More of the same. Will we NEVER learn? n/t

[Fumesucker]

81. Not only do I feel "Meh", I feel "Meh" about feeling "Meh"

Meh^2 if you will.

[Jim Lane]

82. I'm in line with most people here.

Primary: Vote for a more progressive candidate, in preference to a corporatist like Clinton.
General: Vote for a "meh" Democrat like Clinton over whichever right-wing horror heads the GOP ticket.

My guess is that I won't face this situation, though, because Clinton probably won't run.

[pscot]

83. The country needs reform

and she's not going to lead us there.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

84. i feel about her as strongly as i feel about obama or any other dem who would become president

[Enthusiast]

86. It's worse than meh.

It would be like what we have now only worse.

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. Like when in Mexico

I will vote for the PRI, but not because it is the lesser..they are just as evil, just to stay in practice for when it matters. At the local level it still matters some. So my attention will be in those races...especially keeping worst judges off the bench

[Myrina]

90. Meh

She is brilliant and gutsy and emminently more capable than anyone the GOP could run.

BUT I have to assume the "Third Way" DLC Clinton (who in college was a 'Goldwater Girl') rather than the champion of women & children's rights and small-d-democratic principles would show up at 1600 the day after the Inauguration. And we don't need another President who's going to do Wall Street & Corporations' bidding.

[Doctor_J]

91. To coin a phrase

Ditto. I will vote for her, campaign for her, send her money, and post signs and bumper stickers. She will be the best choice on the ballot. But a Hillary Clinton presidency will not stop the country's slide into third world status.

[G_j]

93. It's already been decided

me thinks.. Monsanto and the MIC are counting on that.

[Initech]

94. 2014! 2014! 2014! 2014!

We need to concentrate on this election first, then we can worry about who's going to run in 2016. You want the next president to enter office when the fucking do nothing Fox News teabaggers get an even tighter grip on the House? Hell no! We need to get as many of those assholes out as possible!

[Motown_Johnny]

95. Odds are I will vote for someone else in the primary

If she wins the nomination I will vote for her (and every other (D) on the ticket) but that is as far as I can go.


I am still persuadable, but she has a lot of work to do to get me to support her for the nomination.

[Taverner]

96. Me too

Who knows who is going to run?

[1-Old-Man]

97. I will never vote for a Republican, but I wont vote for Hillary either

[RC]

113. You repeat yourself.

If the tea-baggers hadn't drug this country so far to the Right, Hillery would be a middle of the road Republican now. With the Democratic Party so far to the Right of Center now, there is not need for her to change parties.

[alp227]

98. I do. I say WYDEN/GRAYSON 2016!

Ron Wyden has stood up against the excesses of the PATRIOT Act. I think the candidate who makes the most hay out of the NSA scandal will start attracting voters if not win. And why Grayson? Enough said.

[dkf]

101. If Wyden runs I'm all in.

Or Feingold. My criteria has suddenly become narrowly focused.

[dkf]

99. Ill wait til she tells me where she stands on NSA surveillance

[99Forever]

100. I will not vote for her.

Nor anyone else named Clinton, Bush, or Obama. Ever. Again.

None of these 1%ers gives a crap about us. None. Of. Them.

[cpwm17]

102. I could never vote for Hillary Clinton

I consider her an enemy of mankind. She's a right-winged, racist, war-mongering authoritarian.

[The empressof all]

103. I will hold my nose and vote for her as I did for her husband...

I actually think she's a shade better than Bill but as long as the only other electable option is Republican...I have precious little choice. It killed me to vote for Bill Clinton who I viewed as the beginning death of Liberalism in this country.

[MrMickeysMom]

104. I hope this thread stays around for a while. It's no doubt she'll be on the ticket, but, please...

What does this say about the state of elections?

I feel we've reach the point where the system no longer will work without a major revolt.

[Scootaloo]

105. At this point, US policy seems automated... so what difference would it make?

[Lugal Zaggesi]

106. She would be 69 on Inauguration Day

69 years, 2 months, 25 days to be exact (she was born October 26, 1947, and Inauguration Day will be January 20, 2017).
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/timeduration.html

Here's the top ten oldest President's in history when they were first Inaugurated:

Ronald Reagan (69 years, 11 months, 14 days)
William H. Harrison (68 years, 0 months, 23 days)
James Buchanan (65 years, 10 months, 9 days)
George H. W. Bush (64 years, 7 months, 8 days)
Zachary Taylor (64 years, 3 months, 8 days)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (62 years, 3 months, 6 days)
Andrew Jackson (61 years, 11 months, 17 days)
John Adams (61 years, 4 months, 4 days)
Gerald R. Ford (61 years, 0 months, 26 days)
Harry S. Truman (60 years, 11 months, 4 days)

Hillary would be #2, right after Reagan.
Reagan got Alzheimer's in office.

She missed "her time".
Plus, she was fooled by George Dumbya Bush about "intelligence" on Iraq - she was a DLC moron, the same problem that killed hawkish Lieberman's run in 2004.

[Safetykitten]

108. The whole system needs a reboot...

[snot]

109. Got anything below "meh"?

[Whisp]

111. feh?

[wtmusic]

114. bleh.

[randr]

112. She sits on the Board of Monsanto

Enough said.

[MADem]

115. Not me. I like her. She has experience in the legislature--which is helpful in negotiating between

intractable parties, and she has experience as SoS on the world stage, which helps in how we deal with our friends around the globe.

If she wants it, she is probably one of the best qualified candidates out there.

[Th1onein]

116. Sorry, I can't stand her.

Too conservative.