Snowden admits vedetta against Obama

[michigandem58]

A series of blog posts on Monday purportedly by Edward Snowden said he leaked classified details about U.S. surveillance programs because President Barack Obama worsened "abusive" practices instead of curtailing them as he promised as a candidate...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/17/politics/nsa-leaks/

[randome]

1. Without even specifying what 'abusive practices' he means.

Obama has also greatly expanded Whistleblower procedures.

He has started a National Declassification Center that is due to release its findings in Dec of this year.

Some point to his having prosecuted more leakers than any previous administration but this is because there are more leakers!

Plus, as I learned today, many of the prosecutions were holdovers from Bush Jr.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
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[ucrdem]

2. The old "worse than Bush" meme, what a surprise.

We've been hearing that 24/7 from the faux "left" since 2008. But try to tell the true believers they've been played by another stooge.

[cali]

3. that's not admitting a vendetta.

he's said from the get go that he thought things would improve under Obama and believes they worsened, thus his decision to leak.

make shit up much? Why, yes. Yes you sure as shit do.

[randome]

7. He also used the phrase "assuming power" about Obama.

That comes across as unnecessarily vitriolic to me, as if he's implying dark and sinister motives of 'The Dark One'.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[michigandem58]

9. What would thinking things would improve under Obama have to do with it?

If he judged the program as wrong, that should have been reason enough.

[magellan]

12. Because others had tried to speak up under Bush**

...and were ignored and then persecuted and prosecuted for it?

[treestar]

56. Such as who?

So Eddie thinks Obama less likely than Bush to prosecute him?

[magellan]

62. Binney, Wiebe, Drake

Snowden was hoping change meant that, and Obama would fix the abuse those three had exposed.

[treestar]

55. They did improve under Obama, as he went back to requiring FISA warrants

whereas Bush did not use them.

[DirkGently]

59. Lame and dishonest thread title. Not what the article shows.

[Katashi_itto]

85. +1

[Vanje]

88. +1 Deceptive

Dishonest.

[still_one]

4. I am not sure if that is "admitting" a vedette, but there is doubt that greenwald has one, and never

misses an opportunity to dis Obama, long before this issue

[Vanje]

76. Shoot that messenger again.

I dont think you got him the first time.

[still_one]

86. My view, your view. Greenwald is exploiting the kid as far as I can see

[Vanje]

98. Snowdon is so fortunate to have your deep concern

over his well being.

[ohheckyeah]

5. Bullshit.

The writer said he leaked details of the surveillance programs because Obama campaigned for the presidency on a platform of ending abuses.

[Cali_Democrat]

6. Sowden is a GOP donor

Of course one of his goals is to weaken Obama.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

19. Typical PaulBot

[flamingdem]

29. If the shoe fits, plus he hates all gubmints so that makes him

kewl

Rand Paul is furiously trying to figure out how to capitalize on this.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

35. Possible 2016 running mate?

Unfortunately he won't be old enough by then, I don't think. Perhaps he could be National Security Adviser.

[Vanje]

77. You should be happy to be on the same side as Cheney

on this issue.
Congratulations.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

89. Does that mean if Cheney had been Pro-Snowden you'd have questioned your support of him?

or should i just put this post of your down as a ineffective 'cheap shot'

[Vanje]

94. I can't imagine a universe in which Cheney would side with Snowden.

Nice try though.


If such a thing ever happened, Whoa! I'd have readjust my head entirely.

Good thing YOU have never had to readjust your head. Just keep reading those Whitehouse press releases.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

102. most my news come from DU on this topic since i live in norway

and thats a nice sidestep of my question.

i asked if you would have had questioned your support of Snowden IF Cheney had for whatever reason spoken in support of him(I do agree that we'd need a new universe for such a thing to happen though). So obviously more of a hypothetical question then anything, a yes or no will do fine.


Personal opinion: Cheney's stance of opposing Snowden does not really matter to those who don't buy what he is 'selling' since there will always be people of dubious(understatement of the year) nature and stature on any side of an issue and to point to one of them and claim 'your wrong since he/she agrees with you' is not relevant to the issue itself.

[Vanje]

106. Your question was so hypothetical,

as to be mind-defyingly impossible.

Seriously, I would have to turn off my phone, leave the news at home, and go out in the wilderness for a talk alone with God, for about a week,if such a thing would happen.

[Major Hogwash]

90. McCarthyism -- guilt by association.

Next!

[Cali_Democrat]

114. So what do you think of Glenn Beck's support for snowden?

He called him a hero.

[Vanje]

116. Glen Beck is a nut

with fast shrinking viewer/ listenership. He'd probably say anything to get a little buzz on his irrelevant show.

....but at least we know now that he isnt in the pay of Dick Cheney.

[hughee99]

95. Which is funny because so many in the GOP are DEFENDING this program

and the administration.

[Monkie]

8. how about you quote from the transcripts here on DU?

so lame to post second hand information when the transcripts are here for all to see.
where did snowden say he admits to a vendetta?
you sir, are lying, and exposed.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Where's the "vendetta" part? Sounds like he's holding a politian accountable.

[marions ghost]

11. Garbage

and you know it. We all can see that Obama extended the Bush-era policies on this matter. Fact.

Snowden is challenging Obama to do the right thing, be on the right side of history.

("vendetta" -- nah)

[dennis4868]

53. REALLY?

Obama expanded listening in on domestic calls without a warrant? hmmmmmmm.....

[marions ghost]

58. sorry

I don't get what you mean

I said Obama expanded it.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

13. Here's exactly what he said, so that people can determine for themselves whether this is a veNdetta

Question:
Gabrielaweb
17 June 2013 2:17pm

Why did you wait to release the documents if you said you wanted to tell the world about the NSA programs since before Obama became president?

Answer:
Obama's campaign promises and election gave me faith that he would lead us toward fixing the problems he outlined in his quest for votes. Many Americans felt similarly. Unfortunately, shortly after assuming power, he closed the door on investigating systemic violations of law, deepened and expanded several abusive programs, and refused to spend the political capital to end the kind of human rights violations like we see in Guantanamo, where men still sit without charge.

[atreides1]

14. More of a personal agenda

But that's a personal opinion.

[michigandem58]

15. Thanks for documenting the vendetta

n/t

[truebrit71]

16. Holding a politician to their campaign promises = vendetta

Got it, thanks!!

[HangOnKids]

23. The Same Poster Claims Mainstream Media Is A RW Term

Gee when I hear RWers complain it's always about the LIBERAL MEDIA. The term Mainstream Media is used on DU everyday.

[Marr]

51. Bizarre, isn't it? /nt

[treestar]

57. He's wrong about Gitmo

He sounds like the people here who pig headedly continue to use that one. It proves ODS.

[G_j]

17. FYI

ven·det·ta
/venˈdetə/
Noun

A blood feud in which the family of a murdered person seeks vengeance on the murderer or the murderer's family.

A prolonged bitter quarrel with or campaign against someone.

[graham4anything]

21. Sounds like a capital V for Vendetta to me

Who elected this guy to issue a manifesto? Let this guy run for office and then change the system from within if he doesn't like it.

btw, how do we know who wrote that anyhow? Do we? Was it written alone? With or by someone?

and with all the right soundbyte one words in a paragraph.

[michigandem58]

24. Me too n/t

[flamingdem]

31. He's playing people with these simplistic statements

Hater speech wrapped in the usual terms

[Whisp]

65. There has been so many 'test runs' on scandals and crap lately

that idiots believe he knew this was as ripe a time for bullshit as ever will be.

[VanillaRhapsody]

52. Worse than Bush even though Bush didn't expect FISA Warrants and Obama does?

Does Not Compute.

[allin99]

18. quick! someone tell the aclu to drop their lawsuit! lol

[warrprayer]

33. LMAO

good one

[okaawhatever]

20. His claim is utter bullcrap. Even Bush appointee who was voted against by Senator Obama has said

that. He said that Obama took the program from the executive branch to the legislative branch and added oversight. Not to mention the changes that were made post Comey fall out. His claim is total crap. He probably doesn't like the fact that Obama used the new program to finally catch China hacking and was planning on addressing it at that meeting. The notion that he can even look at himself in the mirror in Hong Kong and say that he believes in free speech and no government oversight on the internet/phones etc is laughable. The Obama "expansion" program is what gave us unequivocal proof of Chinese hacking into California State Universities, the Dalai Lama, several pharma research, our energy grid, Chinese human rights activists, our F-35 program and so on. it's also odd that he's offered no proof of his claims about Obama expanding the program. The data mining and phone were already covered in Laura Poitro's NYT article. I guess people will believe his crap without question. I personally believe he's a Chinese agent, but that's just my opinion. I do think there's plenty of info to question his motive.

[Blue_Roses]

25. I agree and what bothers me the most about him

is the fact he only puts out enough red meat to get people stirred up. As I was reading over his Q&A, I got the feeling he knows enough to throw out sound-bites, but not really the full " nuts and bolts"...or either he does and just likes the rise he's getting.

It's like someone who starts reading a book, but skips to the end.

[randome]

28. You both have an excellent way of stating it!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[okaawhatever]

37. I absolutely believe he's an agent for China. It may have been something recent, but I sort of think

it may go back a while. Too many coincidences for my taste. Also, his words and deeds don't line up. China, Russia, N Korea and Iran are all prolific cyberterrorists. China has stolen more intellectual property, military, medical and technical secrets than anyone. I believe the new program is the one that provided enough info on China for Obama to finally confront China. That confrontation was planned for this trip. Then all of the sudden this revelation. This revelation when Snowden had insisted they print this info within 72 hours? And who else's info does he have? He has only released info harmful to America's allies and good for China's allies.
China meets with US-Leak of our China spying
G8 Summit comes up and leak of info about UK spying w/America at G20 summit. Also no mention of the hacking at the internet summit in Azerbaijan.
Russia meets with US-Leak of info about our Russian operation.

President Obama changed the US position on China's hacking and openly called them out publicly for it. We finally have the proof and are ready to do something and then Snowden happens. C'mon. If Snowden had any exposure to cyber warfare he would know China is by far the worst. (or best, hey if that's the game being played, they were the best for a while).

[Blue_Roses]

42. that's what baffles me the most

He's "upset" that our country spies, so he goes to another known country who spies--it doesn't make sense!
And this new info about blabbing to Russia. WTF is up with that? No wonder Russia said they would give him asylum there.

This guy is playing a very dangerous game. A very stupid one at that. He is very naive.

[Thinkingabout]

71. He is also a spy, just having problems selling his information.

[Vanje]

81. AND!!! His girlfriend is a pole dancer.

Dont forget that!

[Whisp]

61. thank you, okaa.

What you said is about as much sense as anyone has made here in the week.

Nothing else fits. His story is bizarre and out of kilter.

I wonder what you think about Greenwald's involvement.
Apparently he met Snowden before Snowden joined the NSA. That alone waves the big suspicion flag, if true.

[okaawhatever]

73. The timing of all of it is suspicious to me. Snowden contacted WaPo in January and was ready to go

public. He contacted Greenwald in Feb. For whatever reason, he didn't go public then. Interestingly, he took the job in Hawaii in March. At first I thought maybe either he or the reporters felt he didn't have enough proof, and he went back to work to get it. The other odd thing is the place of assignment. Hawaii is where the East Asia (ahem China) interceptions come in, and where that intel is stored. I believe Snowden is an agent for China. It could have started around Jan when he first contacted reporters. A few newspapers have proof of China hacking their computers and emails. With the NYT, they had all 53 reporters emails and passwords. That started shortly after they started a story about a Chinese politician. They also have proof of China hacking Sheryl Atkinsson's computer. Interestingly, she was involved in the story James Rosen reported that outed an agent inside N Korea. While Fox and the main stream media attacked Obama on his warrant, truth is Rosen revealing the presence of an agent was a BIG deal and very dangerous for whoever was helping us. All that being said, it wouldn't surprise me if any communication between Snowden and reporters would have been intercepted by China and made him an ideal candidate to try and turn. He also could have been an agent before then, but if not I think that's a likely starting point.
As to the choice of Greenwald, I don't understand why he was second choice behind WaPo. He covered Bradley Manning and hates the United States. Also, he lives in Brazil so it's not like he's worried about oversight from D.C. I heard he went to Greenwald after WaPo refused to agree to Snowden's "terms". Also, WaPo waited to report the docs two wks ago until they contacted the security agencies both for verification and to find out the actual harm they would do. WaPo pulled a few of the slides, as they were either incorrect or security risks. Greenwald put them all out there. My thoughts are that if Snowden knew his sending docs or anything outside of the United States they would get caught up in one of the nsa's data mining programs then that would make sense. If what some are telling us about American to American communications aren't mined, it would make sense that he went to a local paper first.
Tell me what your thoughts are. I'm still trying to put it together.

[Whisp]

74. I think this is more about undermining the Obama administration

than anything else. The scandals and lies are hitting a fever pitch lately. That AP story about 'gobmint going after journalists' (re: Rosen), could give Greenwald some cover and if he does have involvement in an unlawful way in this, he will too become a 'hero'.

Snowden and/or Greenwald just may have 'direct access' to someone who is gunning for Obama. A lot of rich someones could be on that list.

I'm pretty convinced that others are involved in this.

I don't know, no one does at this point and probably never will.

Yours makes as much sense as I have heard here or on the tv.

Hawaii is where the East Asia (ahem China) interceptions come in, and where that intel is stored. That's a pretty important detail.

[Vanje]

79. If transparency "undermines" the Obama Admin,....

then its a shitty house built on shitty sand.

The administration undermines itself.

[Whisp]

82. if the NSA is transparent, then it can't be the NSA, can it?

do some of you really believe what you are saying?

like it or not, spying has been around since people have been.

what the big deal now is technology and keeping up with the technology of the jonses in the spy business.

would you feel safer if the US were left behind others or more secure in privacy rights?

I agree totally that there has to be a better trust in how these agencies work. I also think it should be realized that Obama has made these agencies more accountable during his term, not less like what most stories allude to.

I'm watching Charlie Rose tonight. The President is going to be on and talking about the NSA. I hope to learn more tonight, as I hope everyone is willing to - to learn more.

[Vanje]

84. If the NSA isnt answerable to the American people,

then it is a secret government.

[Whisp]

87. it is less secret now under Obama

so things are going in the right direction.

I hope there will be more of that to come - I'll pretty confident there will be.

[Vanje]

96. I'm thanking Snowdon for accelerating that shift towards transparency.

I'm glad to read that you consider transparency to be a good thing.

[Whisp]

100. Obama made changes long before Snowden did his thing.

Now I surely hope those changes include that some yahoo like him will find it a lot more difficult, hopefully impossible, to just run oft with the goods like he did so effortlessly.

It will yet have to be revealed what exactly Snowden is after and what his agenda really is.

[Vanje]

104. Was it enough?

Are we the people secure in our privacy?

Whisp, You are a good soldier.

[Whisp]

105. No, we are not secure in our privacy.

but I get much more creeped out by Facebook and the many other ways corporations stalk and hound us than I do by the NSA.

goodnight, have to go.

[Vanje]

107. Date with Charlie Rose.

Enjoy!

[Vanje]

91. Watch Charlie Rose

Amass more talking points. You're running very low.

[Whisp]

93. ah yes, I should only listen to dumbass Greenwald and use His talking points...

[Vanje]

99. Only listen to Obama and his staff.

Its far easier that way.

He's a fine looking gent too. so theres that.

[Whisp]

103. yes he is. Very handsome - all that and a bag of chips.

That's how I judge who to trust.
but I don't much like Clinton, and some people say he is handsome but I don't see that at all. So your theory must have holes.

There have been so many baseless stupidity scandals lately, yet so many just want to jump on any new wagon of that kind without giving it half a think.

That to me is much more worrisome, how people can be led around so easily and believe in lies. over and over and over.

[rug]

22. That sounds more like an observation than a vendetta.

[FreeState]

27. +1 n/t

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

26. The M$M Trying to personalize it rather than investigate it, these scum are useless

[Earth_First]

30. Yet in the same interview had words for Cheney...

Doesn't sound like Snowden is much discriminating against policy to me. Merely stating that one administration is responsible for the same actions of their predecesssors...

[Vanje]

80. Well Cheney and Obama seem to be on the same side

on this issue.

[jbnow]

119. So? Those of us who support Snowden are on the side of assholes too,

like Glen Beck, M. Savage, Matt Drudge and Alex Jones to name a few. Cheny being on the other side doesn't say anything about what side is in better company.
cheney supported this when it had no congressional or judicial oversight. Surprised he didn't call Obama a wimp for insisting on them.
He voted for this as a Senator with oversight and expanded the oversight when he became president, it's hardly a reversal on his part.

I am not sure why the outrage and hearings and activity didn't happen until the release of the info, I was grateful that it got people talking about it.

But Snowden's later choices do have me concerned... it doesn't take away from the value of the info he released.
But it does have me nervous about what else he might release

[warrprayer]

32. "purportedly"

what does that word mean?

[HangOnKids]

70. I believe the poster knows what the word means hence the rollie similie

It appears the point was being made that the word purportedly was in the article, casting a bit of doubt to the claim. What was it you were saying about graduating from high school?

[JimDandy]

78. You're absolutely right.

It was all hands on deck, for a while there, and I took the poster literally, instead of looking for context. I'm happy to walk it back!

[HangOnKids]

117. Wow! Such a gentleman!

I tip my cap to you!

[CakeGrrl]

34. As if he gave a rat's azz about President Obama's campaign promises

he was pissed because his guy Ron Paul didn't win.

[Whisp]

64. that's correct. People here are forgetting that he's a Fuck Ron Pauler.

oiy.

[Scurrilous]

66. @#$% Ron Paul. And his little dog Snowden too!

[Major Hogwash]

36. " . . . from an undisclosed location . . ."

Where have we heard that before?

Hmmmm, he's beginning to smell riper than a watermelon in November right about now.

[JimDandy]

39. You expected a disclosed location?

We need more whistle-blowers, but please don't volunteer...you won't survive long enough to blow the whistle.

[Major Hogwash]

45. Yes, why isn't he on Faux Snooze where he belongs, hugging Sister Sarah?

He's not a whistle-blower, he's a fugitive who stole secret documents from the NSA.

[JimDandy]

46. Hogwash, he's a whistle-blower

with no protections, since he was a contractor for the govt, instead of a govt employee who has those protections. It's also called civil disobedience.

How disgusting that the govt declared those docs secret. They should have been disclosed to us and then noone would have had to copy them and get them to an off-shore media outlet in the first place.

Start sticking up for us instead of the NSA. I've forgotten who said this: a government whose people are afraid of it, is a tyranny; a government who is afraid of it's people is a democracy.

[Major Hogwash]

48. Facts are facts, the only thing Snowden has done is whistle out of his ass!

Boo-yah!

[Whisp]

67. !!

[JimDandy]

72. Your debating skills, if any, are failing.

Same facts...different interpretation.

Let's give you a chance to redeem yourself, as this issue really isn't about Snowden, but the state of our rights. Are you in favor of legislation, or a constitutional amendment, that states, unequivocably, that the U.S. Government shall not seize, store, copy, or look at any American citizen's communications or metadata without a warrant stating a specific investigation, a specific individual and the specific communications to be searched... essentially making blanket seizures of ALL Americans' communication data illegal?

What's your answer, Major Hogwash? And no ducking.

[Tx4obama]

38. Snowden also blamed GITMO on Obama too, someone should tell him it's still open cause CONGRESS

... keeps voting to defund the moving of the detainees and passing laws that are preventing Obama from moving them to foreign countries.

Snowden is an idiot and a criminal.

[tallahasseedem]

40. +1

[dennis4868]

54. great post!

[lumpy]

108. Thank you for pointing out the problem with closing Gitmo.

n

[Marrah_G]

43. I would not call that a Vendetta

[Honeycombe8]

44. Is a vedetta like barretta? nt

[Cha]

47. And, there it is.. Leaker Snowden.. would be

St Snowden the Martyr is a gawd damn Liar. Freakshow is using troll talking points.

Excuse me if I don't bow at down at his stupid altar.

[Vanje]

83. Be happy

You and Dick Cheney are in complete agreement.......but hell yeah! Fuck Ron Paul!

[Marr]

49. Wow-- lots of really deceitful thread titles on this topic lately.

What this describes is nothing at all like a "vendetta".

[TheKentuckian]

50. The OP's subject line is dishonest, at best.

[LondonReign2]

60. You folks are excellent at posting false headlines

If you have to lie to try to make your point....

[JimDandy]

75. I'll finish it for them...

...you've already lost the argument.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. You should look up the dictionary definition (hi NSA)

Of the word vendetta.

By the way feeling betrayed by a politician's campaign promises is hardly one.

Desperation, must be new NSA talking point and part of the kill the messenger strategy.

[SidDithers]

69. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Cha]

92. It's Leaker, wannabe martyr, Snowden who is the Liar.. safe in his fucking

perch he absCONded to. throwing out shite like a monkey.. give him some more bananas, China.

[Vanje]

101. Um.

I was going to suggest, Silly me, for a citation of some sort.

No.
You wont be serving up anything to back up the statement, Thats a sure bet.

Pom Poms! Shake em extra extra hard! Obama NEEDS you now!

[NYC_SKP]

109. Vanje!

How's tricks?

Nice to have you back!

[Vanje]

110. Thanks

Hope you're well. Good to see you!

Couldnt help myself. Thought I'd better warm my hands in all this flame!

[NYC_SKP]

111. I'm good.

And the community seems to be a lot more tolerant of cheerleaders and their nemeses, so...



We need us all!

[backwoodsbob]

97. more smearing?...really?

when will we stop the smearing and address the issues?

[fujiyama]

112. THAT'S a vendetta?

That's some really weak sauce. I seem to recall him saying he's been disappointed in him more than anything. And while I certainly like this president better than any alternative (and voted for him twice with no reservations), I can't say I'm thrilled with his performance. That doesn't mean I have a vendetta against him either.

Read what he has to say about Cheney: "Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest complement an American can receive".

[Life Long Dem]

113. Snowden got an earful from Ron Paul

Bad bad Government. The rest sound like excuses in order to leak. Using Obama is bullshit. And the same with Clapper's screwed up response of collecting phone numbers. All an excuse to attack the bad bad Government.

Yeah, Snowden is painting a good picture of where he stands. I woke up this morning saying this isn't about Snowden. Well, he's making this about him now.

[JimDandy]

115. Wow... this OP recs his own duplicitous posts!

Last edited Tue Jun 18, 2013, 01:19 AM - Edit history (1)

Eta: links of OP reccing his own posts:

Elizabeth Warren Knew of Surveillance Program (OP's hidden post)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022965469

Al Franken Defends NSA Surveillance: It’s Not Spying, They’re Protecting Us
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023028836

Holder promises Snowden will face justice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014509253

I trust President Obama.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022998953#post30

and many more...

[Corruption Inc]

118. CNN propaganda, misspellings; sounds like the Bush years

when the internet was full of Bush supporters who couldn't spell or think.