Are you personally fine with those who cross the border illegally to come to this country?

[HeroInAHalfShell]

or are you against those who cross the border illegally?

[JustAnotherGen]

1. That's a hell of a question

[Puzzledtraveller]

2. can I join you?

[JustAnotherGen]

5. We have two new jugs

Of homemade wine -and my husband is an Italian Immigrant. We have fresh home made soppresata and salsicchia. You give me a beer I'll give you some sausage. Good times! Good times!

[Puzzledtraveller]

15. That sounds fantastic

Good food, good company!

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. I think every one of those damn Canadians ought to be sent back. n/t

[JustAnotherGen]

6. +1

[pinboy3niner]

43. +2, eh?

Oh, DAMN! It's already too late!

[quinnox]

4. welcome to DU

I am against it. Are you surprised that all those strange, "looney" liberals are not welcoming the people with open arms who come here illegally?

[Hissyspit]

32. "Welcoming with open arms"

Yeah, that's what's happening.

[quinnox]

34. yea, it seems to me some do see it that way

if you can't see that, I can't help you.

[Hissyspit]

37. I'm not seeing it that way because it is a pathetic oversimplification

of reality.

OP is crap framing and I'm intelligent enough to see through it.

[quinnox]

44. just answer the dang question

it seems like you want to avoid answering it, who knows why. Are you pleased or do you have any problems with the practice of people who cross into the USA illegally. Yes or no.

[Hissyspit]

50. Bullshit.

I'm not "pleased" with anything.

Sorry I won't play the game.

[pintobean]

7. Against. nt

[RebelOne]

75. Ditto. n/t

[Comrade Grumpy]

8. The ones I've met have generally been good people trying to better their lives.

I don't have a problem with them as much as I do with our broken immigration system. Maybe they'll get that fixed this year.

[Ian David]

9. I'd rather have one hundred people cross the borer illegally to do the jobs we don't want...

... than to have one job that someone DOES want go over seas.

I'd rather have ten people cross the border illegally to do a job an American doesn't want, than to have one, legal H1-B Visa applicant brought here to take away a job that an American does want.

Undocumented workers annoy me far less than Republicans do.

[backscatter712]

16. There's a reason why Americans don't want those jobs.

Because the pay and working conditions are incredibly bad.

Pay a decent living wage, provide decent hours, workplace safety, and Americans would like those jobs just fine.

I'm for opening up the borders to people, putting up tariffs on imported goods, exported raw materials.

In other words, people are free to come and go, stuff has barriers. That would ensure there are more and better jobs here, and that there isn't an "illegal" underclass we use as virtual slaves.

[Ian David]

26. We're certainly doing undocumented workers more harm than they're doing us.

In fact, their net contribution socially and financially is a positive for our country.

[Eddie Haskell]

85. Wrong! I worked construction

It's a competitive bid, dog-eat-dog business. Those that lost their jobs didn't dislike what they were doing. Those workers had no choice in the matter. The firms they worked for simply couldn't compete against firms willing to break the law.

[Ed Suspicious]

105. That's why I say an open immigration policy is much more workable. If immigrants come to

the US, get them on the books and contributing to the tax base and have their employers beholden to the same laws as the rest. If they were citizens then the immigrant's demographically born out tendency to be young and productive becomes a positive for the workers of this country. When they operate by as black market set of rules... this is unwanted.

[joeglow3]

59. My father wanted his job as a dry-waller

Then, the profession was flooded with illegal immigrants, unions were busted and wages plummeted. NOW people claim these are jobs "Americans won't work." I call bull shit on this self-fulfilling prophecy

[Hangingon]

70. +1!

[Kali]

78. are you blaming the workers?

who do you think is ultimately responsible for your fathers loss of profession/trade?

[joeglow3]

112. Where did I assign blame to anyone?

I simply said the saying "they will work the jobs Americans won't" is bull shit.

[arcane1]

96. Yep, it's not jobs American's won't do, it's jobs that Americans businesses won't pay for.

[joeglow3]

113. And they buy politicians who frame the argument so Americans line up to support it

Sorry, but I do not support legalizing illegal immigrants. We have a process and we can look at improving that. However, I don't support throwing millions of Americans into poverty.

[HERVEPA]

10. My response to you, in the words of Alvin Dark,...

a ball player of many years ago when asked for an autograph by a kid, as mentioned in the great baseball book by Jim Bouton "Ball Four", "Take a hike, son, take a hike".

[ForgoTheConsequence]

11. Personally?

If my life was in dire straights and I needed to feed my family, I would do what I had to do.

When I think of how we in America have made the problem worse with the drug war and nafta it becomes harder to point the finger at the immigrants themselves.




However.... I don't always buy into the "they do jobs Americans wont" line. While this has become the case, there is a reason Americans wont work a job for 7 dollars an hour and no benefits. No one should have to!

We have built an economy based on cheap labor, again that isn't the fault of the immigrants and workers.


Short answers, no!

[backscatter712]

12. For. Because our immigration system is completely brain-damaged and racist.

In other words, I find the concept of turning an entire class of people into "illegals" repugnant.

[babylonsister]

77. Thank you! nt

[Starry Messenger]

110. Yup.

We need to raise wage standards/laws and enforce them if we really want to get at the problem of wage undercutting.

[Hoyt]

13. If they are already here, I'm not for treating them as the right wingers want.

Lots of good people have come here "illegally."

What's your opinion?

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. I think crossing the border without permission should be illegal.

I think those who break the law should experience an appropriate punishment.

Laws that I disagree with (this isn't one of them) I work to change. Until that change occurs, I do not support those who break the law.

[backscatter712]

18. Unauthorized border crossing is a civil violation.

It's barely more serious than a speeding ticket.

A few hundred dollars of fines, and case closed, as far as I'm concerned.

[PotatoChip]

40. What I'd like to know is why we don't hear much about the employers

of these undocumented workers getting 'in trouble'.

I'm not overly familiar with this issue, but I'm assuming that people are coming across the border mostly for employment purposes. If this assumption is correct, shouldn't the employers bare some responsibility?

I realize that the possibility of employers making an honest mistake, and/or being fooled by bogus paperwork is there obviously, but if there is some clear pattern of employers hiring undocumented workers, shouldn't there be some repercussions for them somehow? If there isn't already, I mean...

[Saphire]

46. a lot are hired as "sub-contract" workers, especially in

construction.

[PotatoChip]

57. Yes, and I wouldn't be surprised if there are layers

upon layers of sub-contractors to sub-contractors in order to make the most complicit difficult to track down. But that shouldn't stop those that are supposed to be enforcing our laws from attempting to 'peel the onion' so to speak.

I bet that could be done under existing law w/a few departmental level policy changes. And if not, the law needs to be amended to address this issue, imo.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

47. The employers benefit from the legal limbo of their workers.

It creates a black market and allows them to pay pennies for back breaking work. If you complain, threaten to unionize, or get out of line you're threatened with "deportation". When one of these employers is busted its usually just a slap on the wrist and a fine while the lives of the workers and their family are thrown into chaos.

[backscatter712]

53. This. n/t

[PotatoChip]

55. See, this is why I think that the Shrub admin. turned a blind eye

toward the whole issue. And if legal citizens raised a fuss, the whole thing became about the workers, demonizing them, and not their big-agribusiness employers.

If we did more, much more than just give them a slap on the wrist (like cut their subsidies for starters) perhaps they'd be more likely to pay a living wage for American workers. I believe that it's not the difficult work that keeps Americans from doing the job. It's the fact that American workers cannot raise their entire family here in this country on that kind of wage.

Maybe forcing employers to not rely on undocumented workers would force them to pay a living wage.

-Just my theory anyway.

[Kali]

82. it isn't/wasn't just the shrub admin

almost EVERY consumer benifits from the fucked up system. we ALL like cheap goods and services. NOBODY wants to pay the real price for anything so we all turn a blind eye to the working conditions of the people that are on that bottom layer, unless it affects us directly as illustrated by the post above re: the drywaller dad. Then we are persuaded to blame the "competing" worker rather than look for real reasons.

[leftynyc]

41. Maybe just a fine

but they're also deported and I would imagine their chances of being allowed back in legally are negligible.

[marions ghost]

17. Yes I am personally fine with it

in the absence of a humane and legal way to make it work.

Or I could answer your question in the negative--no, I am not fine with the system as it is.

[Warpy]

19. Yes and no

I live in an official sanctuary city in a border state which means the cops don't actively look for illegal aliens. I have known a lot of these illegals over the years as honest and hard working people who have put down roots here and raised families.

However, they did break the law to get here.

I would like to see a streamlined process so that they could register for green cards and stay here without having to live in fear. I would dislike seeing people who broke the law offered full citizenship. Their children who were born here are another matter, they are citizens.

I've also met a few thugs who crossed the border to set up distribution of meth for their gangs in Mexico. I want to see the book thrown at them since they don't care how many people they hurt in the process, serving full sentences for gang violence before they are transported back to Mexico (or Colombia).

[former9thward]

20. Only anarchists or extreme libertarians favor no borders.

Every country must have borders that can be secured or else there will be anarchy in the end.

[Politicalboi]

21. I'm not fine with breaking the law

What we need to do is open the boarder, build casinos and luxury resorts in TJ and make the people want to stay there. Also give them money for infrastructure and schools, and homes. All the money we spend in this war will tower the money we give to have jobs in Mexico to make life better for them. When they thrive, we thrive. We would also need better representation of Americans while visiting so you don't turn down a wrong street and get looted by the police.

The real crime is coming here illegal and cutting in front of others who wait to do it legal. More immigrants should be against those that break the law.

[WovenGems]

22. Darn!

I would like to deport all people over age 18 that ask silly questions but.....
Here's my question to you. When is a good time to use empathy?

[giftedgirl77]

23. I have no problem with it

there is a reason all of these people are risking everything including their lives to get here & if it is that bad where they are coming from (which it is) then let them come. I also think it is bs to make them pay 1000's of dollars to become citizens, it truly is disgusting & an undo burden.

This country was allegedly created as a safe haven for people wanting a better life, I don't think we should be dicks about it now.

[think]

24. No. Nor am I fine with the US imperialism that created social conditions so deplorable

that the people of Latin America would risk everything to get to the United States.

People who are desperately escaping the conditions created by decades of right wing dictatorial rule. All facilitated by the US Military and our government for the benefit of US multi national corporations. While dictators ruled with ruthless impunity, wracked up huge national debts these nations are stilling paying, and allowed our corporations to exploit these country's people and resources.

But we conveniently forget the imperilism which created a situtation so dire that the immigration problem is what it's become and angrily blame those very people our country's corporations have exploited all these years. Saddled with debts and the stained remnants of repressive governments and their militaries these people have been all but guaranteed a life of extreme poverty in their homelands.

So no. I am not fine with illegal border crossings.

However my solution would be one that's more a kin to the IMF and World bank forgiving the debts of these nations and ending our constant meddling on behalf of the multi national corporations. And also making legal immigration easier for those that wish to come here.....

[Kali]

25. I am for human beings being treated like human beings.

fuck insane rules and regulations - especially bigoted ones. Militarizing our southern border as an overreaction to the consequences of our own fucked up policies is NO ANSWER to this issue.

[quinnox]

31. letting millions of illegal aliens pour into our country ain't exactly a solution

either, ya know.

[Kali]

74. sure, tell that to virtually every non-Native American here

(and please also remember a good portion of those people you are afraid of are of Native descent)

[oneshooter]

97. Mexico militarizes its southern border.

[Marengo]

27. Sigh...you really need to put more thought into this N/T

[roody]

28. I am fine with them.

[Hissyspit]

29. What the fuck difference does it make whether I'm "personally fine" with it?

What the hell does "against those" mean?

Crap framing.

[pinboy3niner]

35. +1

Crap framing, indeed! I feel like I'm being push-polled.

[arcane1]

30. I'm not a fan of sneaking into the country, but I'm not against the people themselves

If I were in their situation, I may do the same thing.

The only people I'm against are those who would exploit people desperate enough to try to cross the border illegally.

So, really, your question is bullshit because it's focused on the people and not the act.

[ZombieHorde]

33. Yes, I am personally fine with those who cross the border illegally

to come to this country. Why wouldn't I be?

[Jackpine Radical]

36. I'm personally fine with an international labor movement

that levels the playing field on wages so starving people from elsewhere don't have to try to cross our borders in desperation.

[leftynyc]

38. No - they're criminals

What I don't have a problem with are the children who are brought here, get educated and employed and contribute to our country.

[Douglas Carpenter]

39. on the purely personal level I am. However, I accept that the modern nation-state does require

control over its borders in order to function efficiently. But on the purely personal level I feel both sympathy and empathy with the ones who come here even illegally.

[graham4anything]

42. I would grant 100% amnesty, citizenship,voting rights now & also same to Syrian/Egyptian refugees

We are a rainbow coalition as the man I voted for twice for President, and once for VP(With Jerry Brown), Jesse Jackson so
eloquently spoke so often.

Now, I would get rid of the vigilante border patrol. We don't need zimmy from Florida doing security for us.
and I would reinterpret the 2nd amendment so that it clearly states militias=national guard NOT an individual like zimmy in Florida.

since you asked.

[Skip Intro]

92. Toss in a car wash and you got yourself a deal! n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

45. I don't care.

National borders are artificially created.

[randome]

48. Here, here!

We're not at war with anyone in this hemisphere. Open the whole sucker up for free travel, let the chips fall where they may!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[LWolf]

49. I'm fine with them.

Having lived in so cal for 38 years, I lived next door to them. I taught their kids. I saw how hard they worked.

[KG]

51. I'm not fine with this OP

[quinnox]

56. lol

[FarCenter]

52. No

[Nay]

54. I am against it. Immigrants need to do what my mom did and apply and arrive legally. nt

[edhopper]

58. Are you personally fine with

right wing trolls crossing over to DU and starting inane threads?

[quinnox]

60. lol

[uppityperson]

103. +1

[TheKentuckian]

61. Fine, I'm not fine with the labor black market that allows them to be abused and for

our wages to be diminished. I'd take the INS/deportation bullet out of the employer's gun and empower unauthorized migrants to report crooked devils.

[mokawanis]

62. For

But for me, it's a personal matter. My son-in-law crossed illegally quite a few years ago. After he met and married my daughter they moved to Mexico, stayed for 10 months while they waited for all the paperwork to be done, and then returned to the US, legally. He's one year away from becoming a US citizen.

Am I glad he broke the law and came to the US? You bet I am. He's a good husband, and a good father to my grand kids.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

63. I'm neither fine nor against... It's a very difficult topic

In theory, I am against those who enter the U.S. without inspection and without regard for the proper procedures - however draconic and bureaucratic they may be.

Being a legal immigrant who has gone through the emotional and financial turmoils of aging out, becoming a professional student and eventually getting permanent residence after well over a decade, there is much that is wrong with the immigration system in the U.S. But I don't fault the U.S. from having laws and regulations in place which I had to follow.

I work in this arena (immigration) and there are daily frustrations with the way the system is set up. At the same time, I do recognize and respect the U.S. rule of law. I know that laws and regulations are in place because of long-standing objectives the U.S. has held in regards to immigration and its borders. They are not clean laws or easy regulations and - as it is true of many other laws and regulations - they are not open to everyone.

I do think there are exceptions to be made for those who didn't have a choice to follow or not follow U.S. immigration laws. I am talking about the children whose parents brought them to the U.S. by entering without inspection or overstaying a visa. That's why I support DACA and the DREAM Act.

I am also very much in favor of the Obama administration's efforts to go after employers with increased ICE worksite and I-9 enforcement audits, which are at a historic high.

I believe that stifling the demand of unscrupulous employers that are U.S.-based for unauthorized workers will lead to a reduced number of people who will risk life or limb to come illegally.

However, I do not condone anyone who uses false documentation or makes false attestations to an employer in order to get a job. Unfortunately, this is something I deal with on a daily basis. Using and procuring false social security numbers or driver's licenses or even U.S. passports or green cards is serious. In particular, fake social security numbers may not be fake at all - in fact, they may belong to someone (a newborn or someone who died) and, in some cases, this someone is a victim of identity theft.

Even worse, there are instances when employees may have lied on government documents such as the I-9, which is completed under penalty of perjury and with the understanding that providing false statements may lead to civil and criminal penalties up to imprisonment. Just last week, two long-time employees had to be terminated. They had falsely stated they were U.S. citizens on their original I-9s completed in 1990, after I conducted an investigation when they tried to change their social security numbers with our payroll department.

Mandating E-Verify for all employers and all new hires would go a long way to prevent some of these document abuses, but not far enough. I can drive just 10 minutes and - with only $150 - get a real-looking social security card. For a little more, I can get a pretty good fake green card. There is a huge difference between wanting to make a better life for yourself and your family and committing fraud or worse.

[JustAnotherGen]

89. +1

Being a legal immigrant who has gone through the emotional and financial turmoils of aging out, becoming a professional student and eventually getting permanent residence after well over a decade, there is much that is wrong with the immigration system in the U.S. But I don't fault the U.S. from having laws and regulations in place which I had to follow.

My husband has followed the laws too. And I know it is a difficult process.

And I'm in the process to get citizenship in his country - and I'm following the rules.

It's actually easier to become a US Citizen than his Southern European Country.

[badtoworse]

64. Strongly against.

[Orsino]

65. Against people?

Or against the practice?

I don't buy into the right-wing meme that deliberately confuses the offense with the offender, or pathetic oversimplifications that ignore the fact that many entering the country illegally are not doing so of their own free will.

[duuser5822]

66. I'm all for it

As long as that person obeys all the other laws, and stays out of trouble, he's welcome to stay here.

[ZombieHorde]

72. I don't care if they don't obey all other laws.

Obviously some crimes, such as murder and kidnapping aren't cool, but I don't care if they smoke pot or drink a beer while walking down the street.

[bemildred]

67. Pretty much, yeah. nt

[bravenak]

68. I all for it.

Since none of our ancestors were invited. What happened to this:
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I guess this no longer applies? Or only applies to the right kind of people?

[rug]

69. Only capital is unafffected by borders.

[oldhippie]

71. Oh goody! I'll play, I'll play .......

I refuse to answer.

[Cleita]

73. I'm not fine with it, but I have great sympathy for the plight of those people

who desperately seek a better life. Living in California most of my life I have worked alongside these people, particularly in restaurants, and have gotten to know them. They aren't here to exploit our social services and get free stuff. They just want to work for a better wage than they got in the country of their origins. One sixteen year old working in the kitchen of a business I worked as bookkeeper for told me that he was working in a tile factory in Mexico since he was ten years old. He made $1.75 a day. He heard that he could make $3.75 an hour in the USA so he crossed over illegally. This was back in the early eighties. He found out how hard it was to be considered illegal and how white people often treated Mexicans like they weren't really human beings.

He received amnesty when Reagan offered it and has lived and worked here with his family ever since. The real problem is we need to make our neighbors to the south fix their employment and poverty problems, so people don't want to leave, yet when some leaders attempt to do just that like the late Hugo Chavez, they are vilified as tinpot dictators by our medial moguls. I think our industrial giants like being able to exploit the cheap labor and don't want this fixed at all.

[BenzoDia]

76. The laws the law and it should be enforced.

However, I harbor no ill-will towards honest people looking for a better life.

[Comrade Grumpy]

106. Sometimes the law is an ass. This is one of those times.

Maybe that immigration reform bill will pass this year.

[kestrel91316]

79. No, and yes. I'd like them to show some respect for our laws and to those who are playing

by the rules by waiting patiently for visas.

So sue me.

[Marrah_G]

80. Somehow I don't think this thread will go well.

[Eddie Haskell]

81. The law's the law

Those that cross illegally should be treated as the law dictates ... But

Why is business in favor of immigrant amnesty? Lower wages.

Why should working people be against immigration amnesty? Lower wages.

[Iggo]

83. Fine with it.

[Logical]

84. NO, they should be arrested. n-t

[bike man]

86. "Personally fine" or not has nothing to do with it. If folks come into, or stay, illegally, they

should return/be returned to their country of origin.

There are procedures in place for people who wish to enter the country legally to do so. The illegal ones, when found and returned, should be penalized by having their applications refused - for a long time.

[ananda]

87. What's legal or illegal when it comes to migration?

Was it legal for my white ancestors to come here
and take over land and property from others
already here?

Or is it OK if you're white?

[gollygee]

88. Keep your eye on the ball

desperate poor people aren't the ones causing the economic problems in this country.

[FreeState]

90. Do you know anyone that came here illegally? N/t

[Whisp]

91. I am fine with it. Corporations don't have borders

so people should not either.

[Skip Intro]

93. I'm for lawful immigration. n/t

[Gravitycollapse]

94. Life is not so simple. These people are desperate for a better life.

Who am I to say they can't have what they want? What right do I have, as a human being, to deny them a better life?

[Sancho]

95. Yes...I'm fine with it...

[opiate69]

98. Given a choice between the exploited and the exploiters...

I'll side with the exploited damned near every damn time. To quote Thom Hartmann, we don't have an illegal immigration problem, we have an illegal employer problem.

[Vanje]

99. Yes. Generally, yes.

[Vanje]

100. Oh wait! WAIT!!!!

You're talking about fucking CANADA , arent you?!

We have ENOUGH hockey fans! No more! Close the Northern border. Those people are going to wreck our American sovereignty...with their curling, and their horrible anchor babies. HEll no!

.....but I can still drink their beer cant I?

[Skittles]

101. wbere did your ancestors come from?

[treestar]

102. Yes, I think in their position I might have done the same thing

Since there is no way to come legally.

My ancestors just came and if there had been such strict laws could not have, so they'd likely have come illegally (there were poor Irish people) under similar conditions.

[uppityperson]

104. Nobody has posted "post and run" or whatever the phrase is so I will.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

107. Indeed.

I'm surprised members aren't up in arms over such an overly simplistic question about such a complicated an varied issue being tossed out, then ignored by the OP.

[MotherPetrie]

108. Yup

[H2O Man]

109. legalize Lonnie Anderson's hair

[loyalsister]

111. I have no problem with it

I'm not "against" the existence of people who are desperately trying to survive.