Are we being spied on right here on DU, by Google?

[Whisp]

Do you consider it an invasion that DU has a deal with Google to sell ad space to you by what words you use? Do we know what else may be involved that may not be apparent?

I visit the gaming group and I get a fair amount of gamer ads. I also get 'date young asian girls' sort of ads too. I am not sure why I am targeted for that, but I am.

Is it ok for DU to use this kind of information about us and trust that Google has only the best of intentions and are honest with their contract with DU?

I'm not at all worried about DU ads, but overall I consider Facebook and all the other corporations that feed on us for info far more disturbing that spy vs spy.

[Jamaal510]

1. I used to get those exact same ads, too.

But thankfully I found Adblock. Now I don't have to see anymore of those, and I can watch YouTube videos without being forced to watch 30 second commercials.

[Tx4obama]

2. A comment Skinner posted this morning in ATA on the link below...

See Comment #1 here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592136

[onehandle]

3. Yes. Google has more information on all of us, than any other digital spy.

Diversify your Internet.

[Electric Monk]

4. Short answer: Yes. Solution? Use Firefox with adblock and ghostery plugins. nt

[Whisp]

8. I have heard that adblock can sometimes mess things up for you.

I'd rather suffer the ads than something go haywire.

I wonder tho, if everyone on DU used adblock, would Google know and would that some how alter the contract with DU? And if you do use adblock, do you block out all google queries on you as well as the ad itself?

[Tx4obama]

18. I have AdBlock and haven't had any problems, and I haven't seen any ads now for many years.

[Fearless]

46. Likewise.

[PADemD]

10. Solution?

Google Analytics shows up even though I use Firefox with adblock and ghostery.

[Whisp]

14. that was a question I had. So adblock just removes the annoyance

but not google's gathering info ability.

[Electric Monk]

32. Ghostery can block Google Analytics too, if you set it to. nt

[PADemD]

34. Please advise Method to use

Thanks!!!

[Electric Monk]

37. Firefox Preferences -> Manage Add-Ons -> Ghostery, then scroll down a bit

and make sure Analytics is checked as well, and not just Advertising.

[Atman]

41. It's easy...just check the Google Analystics box.

I just installed Ghostery...it's awesome, but it will affect pages differently. But in the menu toolbar, there is a tiny icon which displays the number of trackers being blocked as well as used. Click the icon, you'll get a detailed list, and it's often worse than you feared. For instance, some trackers have 10+ sub-trackers.

Just click on the icon and you'll your CMS info. I believe there five tabs.

[Egalitarian Thug]

49. NoScript takes care of that annoyance. No Google analytics, Doubleclick, ar any of the other dozens

of nosy Nellies that want to gather and sell you without paying you a penny.

Unfortunately, there's little you can easily do about your ISP selling you.

[PADemD]

51. You are correct about the dozens

When I go on another site, a very long list shows up in Ghostery.

[malokvale77]

83. Google Analytics...

is blocked on mine. Have you checked your settings?

[PADemD]

90. Yes, it was blocked

I had to unblock the universal analytical block because the one web site I was using did not work well with the blocking. What is annoying is the list that shows up on the screen, even the names of the blocked.

[malokvale77]

92. Advanced settings...

will turn off that list.

[alittlelark]

45. That's my solution as well.

[sarisataka]

5. Nope

not at all




©2013 Google - Google Home - Advertising Programs - Business Solutions - Privacy & Terms - About Google

[elleng]

6. Hardly likely, not an invasion,

as a spy is 'A person who secretly collects and reports information about an enemy or competitor,'

and DU and FB are public forums.

[hunter]

7. Anything I write here I'd say to anyone's face.

Maybe that's why I don't have many friends...

[Whisp]

12. hee hee.

I think I resemble that remark. I don't have much patience with morons any more.

[customerserviceguy]

53. That's my answer

I've always said, never put anything on the Internet, or in an email, that you wouldn't put on a billboard over your house.

[magellan]

9. Are you here by choice?

Can you protect yourself by using add-ons?

Too bad it isn't that simple to defend ourselves against what the NSA does.

[creeksneakers2]

11. If a post is made in a public forum

There is no reason that the NSA can't look at it, or even record it.

[Whisp]

13. I meant can Google be doing something other than we think it is.

If they can tell what might interest in what kinds of ads appear to each member, then what else may they be looking at and what other way can they be using that info besides just ad placement?

[MineralMan]

69. Google can use what you type into their search box

pretty much however they want to use it. Go read their terms of service and privacy statements. The only way to prevent them, or any other website from using what you type into their website is not to type stuff into their website. When you type things into a website, they move beyond your control.

Read the terms of service. You've already agreed to them by using the website.

[wercal]

72. I know that...that is fairly common knowledge

But that TOS morphs when Google is forced to secretly give its info to the NSA.

[MineralMan]

73. That is an issue to take up with the agency that demands

the data. Even DU is compelled to provide information if a subpoena or warrant is issued. No commercial Internet enterprise is free from that requirement. The problem is not Google's. Google, however, does sell information and uses it for commercial purposes. That is clearly within their TOS. Have you read it? I'm betting you have not.

[wercal]

75. I am going to hang myself

I don't remember ever stating I had a problem with Google...my problem is indeed with the secret warrants issued to it (btw this is notably different than the standard warrants that you suppose may be issued to DU...see how secret is different).

[Voice for Peace]

15. spies everywhere

[kentuck]

16. Here is the google ad that popped up for me.

[Bonobo]

17. Did Google recently develop drones?

Did they gain the ability to imprison or levy taxes against people?

Were they elected to represent us?

I must have missed all that.

What is scary to me is the complete ignorance of civics. To confuse one's government with corporations is really fucking scary and a sad testament to where we are today.

[wercal]

31. Don't the two collide

When the NSA orders Google to supply information? Aren't Google analytics effectivelythe NSA's analytics now?

Hasn't the 'permission' I gave Google to spy on me (by scrolling through some user agreement) now been co-opted by the NSA?

Sadly, the whole problem with this is that the difference you pointed out doesn't really exist anymore.

[marions ghost]

55. +1

Right. That's what people need to realize.

[treestar]

63. Wow, most DUers of the left conflate the two

Claiming the corporations own the government. Corporations could volunteer all that information to the government.

[malokvale77]

86. Spot on...

Unfortunately, civics is no longer taught in school, and here in Texas, critical thinking is forbidden in the curriculum.

[backscatter712]

19. Everything you post here on DU is visible to the public, and spidered by Google.

Do google searches for your posts on Google - you'll find 'em.

[Whisp]

21. yeh, I know that part.

I'm wondering if/what Google sees/knows/looks for that is not apparent to us.

[backscatter712]

23. Every time there's Google ads, or there's Google metrics code in a web page, you're logged.

The tracking code is invisible, is rendered as a 1x1 transparent pixel on many pages (if rendered at all), possibly including DU, and every time you load it, Google knows where you've been.

I recommend Adblock+ and DoNotTrackMe.

[marions ghost]

57. Seems to me

if they're tracking you and you don't see the ads, they are still tracking you?

[backscatter712]

61. There are invisible "web bugs" that are on lots of web pages.

These are page elements, which may be things like 1x1 pixel transparent images, with Javascript code and a cookie linked to them. You don't see them on the page, but code gets activated on your browser, your browser stores a cookie, and you're logged on the advertising server.

This is why I recommend plugins like DoNotTrackMe - this software knows about such web bugs and prevents them from working.

[marions ghost]

65. worth a try

altho I'm sure it's not long before the get-arounds get through.

These things may just give us a false sense of security and really don't add up to any sort of dependable consumer protection. Inventing patch after patch to keep us busy, while they keep digging. High level geeks may be able to thwart these bugs somewhat, but not us lowly Users IMO.

All our data are belong to NSA.

[L0oniX]

20. I am spying on you as you type.

[Whisp]

22. I spy with my little eye

something that is loonix

[Skittles]

29. I WILL KICK SPYING L0oniX ASS

YES INDEED

[L0oniX]

30. OH NOES ...Google is spying on us too! OMG

Are we being spied on right here on DU, by Google? - Democratic ...
www.democraticunderground.com › ... › General Discussion (Forum)
21 hours ago - 29 posts - 20 authors
Do you consider it an invasion that DU has a deal with Google to sell ad space to you by what words you use? ... I'm not at all worried about DU ads, but overall I consider Facebook and all the ... I am spying on you as you type. ... See Comment #1 here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592136 ...

[Jamastiene]

24. If a tree posts from the woods, and there is no one else there,

will the NSA still be able to gather its info too?

[Poll_Blind]

25. What a bizarre attempt to equate willingly posting information publicly and being spied on, secretly

PB

[Whisp]

26. We are being tracked here

if I had a choice, I would not be willing to go along with that but I'm only just a wee bit creeped out by it. Facebook Really creeps me out tho.

I wonder if members with stars who don't get ads, get tracked anyway? And what would be the purpose for Google to do that?

That's the sort of thing I'm talking about- not the obvious that if you say something on a public forum that, duh, people can see it!

just wonderin'

[Electric Monk]

33. I think I get what you're saying, that it's not just what you write, but what you read, and click on

and by tracking all you read they could get a really good picture of what you care about, even if you never wrote a thing.

[wercal]

35. I understand your concerns..

And frankly some people here aren't being imagimative enough. I'm sure star members are tracked for starters

How about private e-mails on DU? Probably tracked and data mined. How about creating linkages among the registratiom email addresses that communicate with each other here...probably. How about noting what hours you use DU? How about noting how you multitask among several sites at once...and whether or not you give extra attentioj to DU?

I'm sure they do t all...and you've given them permission. The problem is
..the NSA has now given itself permission to look over Google's shoulder.

[MADem]

39. There are no "private" emails on DU

There's DU Mail--which underwent a name change from PMs when we moved over here.

I always had the expectation that the admins could look in our mailboxes for any reason or none at all, even in the early days of this site.

[wercal]

56. Whatever you want to call them

My supposition was that Google was using its analytics on the content of the private e-mails...nothing to do with any expectation of privacy from the site admin.

Anf they are still accurately described as private, since they are not visible to all members or the public in general...and in the context of out discussion, some had already replied to the OP that this was a pu lic board, so no true snooping is required to read posts, but the dame is not true forthe email functions, which most correctlt assume ti be more private than a board posting.

[MADem]

71. They were PMs on DU2, they are "DUMail" on DU3.

The "mail" belongs to DU--no "private" in there at all anymore!

Certainly they are "more private" than a regular post, but so, too, are conversations in MIRT or the HOSTS group; still though, they're not completely private.

I figure the best best is to conduct myself like I'm standing in the food court of a mall, surrounded by hundreds of people. If I don't want to have my words repeated back to me, the best bet is to just not say them.

[wercal]

74. Yes admin has access to mail on its system

The context of the conversation was that whatever you post on a public board is easily tracked with no warrant or snooping necessary. I merely pointed out that the email system here, while not posted in public, could also be subject to Google data mining.

From now on I will have to predicate every post on the NSA subject with a statement that I have not been living under a rock...and I generally know how the internet works, to prevent my point from being completely lost and overlooked in the minutia of what I already know.

[MADem]

77. If it were subject to Google data mining, it should also be searchable.

It ain't, though. Nor are the "behind the curtain" groups.

I suppose Google knows. The admins probably do, too.

[wercal]

78. There is a major difference between searchable and data mineable

Google lets us search what they want us to search...they don't automatically give us access to all of their analytics...or practcially any of it, for that matter, since its the 'secret sauce' for their product: targeted ads.

[MADem]

79. Do we get ads in DUMail, the host group, or MIRT, though?

Or are they corners that are ad free?

[wercal]

82. Well I just checked...

And I get a Carbonite ad in my in-box.

And I went to read an old message, and got a Bose ad.

So...yes.

But it doesn't matter. Even if a space is ad free, it does not mean Google and others are not data mining the content you are typing.

[MADem]

84. I suppose it would be easy to check. Get a friend, and send a bunch of DUMAILS back and forth with

a keyword, and then see if you get ads that match. It would have to be something that you don't ordinary get in your ad smorgasbord, like the dating sites or that big purple sex toy that used to annoy people mightily on DU2, but if it started popping up with frequency, then you'd have a pretty good idea. The ads you are seeing in your mail could be vestigial, after all, but if you started getting targeted for things you ONLY discussed in DUmail, that would be a horse of a different color.

Skinner probably knows the answer to this question, I'll bet.

[wercal]

88. Well I already get the sex toy ads...ok just kidding

I went back to the inbox, and the ads have changed, so they are 'live', as far as I know. I don't know why Google would respect the boundaries of an inbox...if you've got their toolbar up top, they probably monitor every key stroke.

I have a very limited Facebook account...no friends, and it only exists so I can look at other facebook accounts. It started giving me friend suggestions for people I only knew via one e-mail exchange, work related. This gave me a glimpse into the power of these 'profiles' that are built around each one of us. Facebook somehow mined around and discovered this one e-mail exchange, and made a connection. In every case, both me and the other party in the exchange were operating on company named domains (ie not Gmail or Yahoomail type of stuff). So you bet I'm convinced that e-mails are not off limits for data mining.

Now, it can go a step further. One friend suggestion was for a person I had only ever spoken to on the phone. I think Facebook knows my phone number, because my IP address links my Facebook account to my emails, which have my phone number in the signature line. I assume it learned the other person's number in a similar fashion. Next step...we use VOIP at work...my phone line literally runs through my computer and LAN connection. Enough pieces of the puzzle come together, and Facebook makes a connection.

Another time, out of the blue, it suggested an elementary school classmate I hadn't seen in 25 years. And I've moved a thousand miles away. I assume, in this case, he must have signed up on one of these 'classmate' sites...and I think I have in the past...and bingo, a connection is made.

I've learned that there is not limit to data mining....and now its a little upsetting that the NSA is using this technology, for more than putting a Carbonite ad in my face.

[marions ghost]

60. Corporatocracy.

The NSA now collects all. We DO need to know that. Thank you Snowden & the other whistleblowers.

The effect this activity has of chilling political commentary is an insidious part of it, never mind what might be pinned on you for your actual comments for some reason. Your political leanings and things like "environmentalism" can be used to smear you in court (even if the case is non-political), for one thing. Even if you are doing non-sensitive work for the government, your job could be affected by your political leanings. Never mind more nefarious manipulations of whole masses of people. This level of data mining and analysis is a clear threat to democracy, by any stretch of the imagination.

The big concern here--the effect on freedom of speech & thought. Totalitarianism. We have already seen what a tyrannical administration looks like in Booshcheney. Do we trust the government not to get into deep levels of mind control?

It's time in this country to resist this. Support those who are speaking for us. Take a stand. Or live your life censoring your words and thoughts and looking over your shoulder.

[Puzzledtraveller]

28. Yes, I saw through it too Poll_Blind

[madrchsod]

27. i`m to old to give a shit.....

[neverforget]

36. I find the government collecting information on who, when and for how long I call to be

none of their business and unconstitutional.

[MADem]

38. Get an adblocker.

Problem solved.

But yeah, any place that can leave you a cookie isn't doing that because they think you like chocolate chip.

You are being targeted and profiled, so people can sell you things.

Young gamer boys like anime; that's probably why you are getting the asian dating ads.

[Whisp]

40. That must be it then!

Young gamer boys like anime; that's probably why you are getting the asian dating ads.

makes sense now. ty.

[malokvale77]

87. Ghostery can block cookies.

nt

[Whisp]

42. I just finished watching the President on Charlie Rose

It was excellent overall and on the NSA subject, at the very end of the interview I thought he gave a hint that besides debating the government's and the NSA abilities he will also be talking about what corporations are/might doing in this regard on privacy matters.

It was just a hint tho in not near that amount of words - this is what I gathered he meant.

That sure is what I'd be very interested in finding out, about what exactly is lawful and not for corporations to do in this regard of privacy.

[flamingdem]

43. Glad the nsa thang happened under Obama's watch

Much more likely to see something improve, for sure we will, but too bad that those carrying it out and supporting the "hero" are trending anti-Obama!

[Whisp]

44. I hope you get to see that interview if you haven't yet.

It was riveting, the whole hour just jam packed with info and subjects we've been 'talking' about here on DU.

It was like a cooling sauve placed on a nasty rash when he spoke and explained his views and explained some realities other than what Huff Post considers reality and what Glenn Greenwad considers the same. Oh, and a smattering of a few others we know too.

[treestar]

64. IKR? Obama could actually do something about it

While our hero's attempts have their down side, danger to operatives and what have you, and being random.

[Hissyspit]

47. It's not the same when the government does it.

False equivalence.

[BainsBane]

48. Everything here is available on the WWW

They don't have to sell anything.

[snot]

50. You have to ask? ATTN: SOLUTIONS (and Adblock isn't one):

Yes, Google et al. are tracking you; that doesn't mean you can't slow them down. (And if you don't understand why it's in your own best interest to do so, see http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3032530 for starters.)

I was very disappointed when DU chose to make it easier to use Google search than its own search tool (which IS still available, and is far superior, i.m.h.o. . . . )

But anyway, here are a host of free tools you can use to try to slow the b*stards down, many of them relatively easy: http://prism-break.org

Adblock blocks ads, but as far as I know, doesn't block others from tracking you.

[AngryOldDem]

52. Of course we are.

That's just how it works. Across the board.

I once read some theater reviews online from a major newspaper, and now when I log on I sometimes get ads about the latest Broadway shows and how to get tickets. Not from Google. That's life in the computer age.

[madokie]

54. I'm not sure what good it does

but in my preferences I have cookies turned off with exceptions for DU, I have for session only set for eBay, Paypal as I use these and they don't work otherwise. I have Google set to block. I don't seem to have a problem with doing anything I want to do with these settings. I admit that on occasion I do have to allow a site to put a cookie on my computer but as soon as I'm finished with whatever it is that required it I remove the cookie. Very little hassle do this setting cause me. In the mean time I feel more secure in thinking that I'm blocking most of the back door access that someone might be able to gain by the use of cookies on my computer.

[justiceischeap]

58. If you're on the Internet, or have been, for any amount of time

basically since the development of cookies (1994), you have been "spied" on. As much as anyone likes to think that what they do online is private, it really isn't if you interact with any site that collects data... basically all of them.

[Le Taz Hot]

59. Here's a solution.

Buy a star. Poof! No more ads.

To answer your original question: Bet on it. We're the "subversives." OK, some of us are. The rest are just fine with gummit intrusion into our lives 'cause, you know, it IS Obama and so that's OK because Obama would never ever do anything Republican-like and if he does, well, it's 14-dimensional chess and we plebes just don't understand 'cause we never loved him anyway and we all voted for Nader in 2000.

That about cover it?

[GeorgeGist]

91. Google Analytics still tracks you though.

[treestar]

62. Yes. It's funny to see how the ads reflect what is being discussed

Right not there is a Tea Party Ad, "Audit the IRS." People will complain about politics like that, but Google is neutral so if you are talking about the IRS it figures you are interested. There are DUers who hate H-1Bs and discuss those on DU and you get ads for lawyers to bring H1Bs to your company!

[Whisp]

66. I had to call an immigration lawyer a while back.

I googled as to which one to call. I did not mention this at all on DU but I was getting ads for that here after so it goes beyond what we talk about on DU, it's anything you might google that has an ad available on the google list of ads.

[malaise]

67. What you said

I consider Facebook and all the other corporations that feed on us for info far more disturbing that spy vs spy.

+1,000

[MineralMan]

68. DU isn't spying on you.

Google is.

Google tracks every search you make from your computer, and uses that to target ads based on your searches when you visit any website that uses Google ads as a revenue source.

If that is bothersome to you, stop using Google, since that is how they make money. Then, you'll see generic ads on DU, rather than targeted ads based on your searches.

Or, become a Star Member on DU and skip all of the ads.

[GreenStormCloud]

70. I don't mind targeted ads.

Sometimes, rarely, there will be an ad for something that will actually interest me. It is better than random ads. And they do keep them reasonably up-to-date. A few months ago I was looking for a good used car and started getting car ads, but they have quit those a couple of months ago.

This morning I went to an online poker site. Can't play from the U.S., just wanted to look at it. Wonder what ads I will start getting now.

[intaglio]

76. To those who advise using Adblock or similar

that only stops the ads appearing, Google still gets the data - plus the info that you are using Adblock.

Adblock also gets data that shows what ads you are blocking and, like Google and your service provider and probably Microsoft/Apple/Ubuntu and your anti-virus software provider, get info about which sites you are visiting.

Welcome to the internet.

Oh, and the list I have just given is not in any way comprehensive.

[ljm2002]

80. Google can't come and arrest me...

...at least not yet.

Although considering the cozy relationship between Big Business and Big Government, I am none too confident that will remain true.

[Rex]

81. Yes. But it is not illegal.

And it has to do with making money and not with state secrets. Personally I don't care, because I won't buy a single thing advertised on the Internet by third party applications.

[G_j]

85. I post advocating for the protection of wolves

and sometimes get adds for some thug who sells wolf pelts. I think their targeting is a bit off.

[malokvale77]

89. this works for now...

it's called gprivacy.
https://code.google.com/p/gprivacy/wiki/README