knowing phone calls are being recorded by the guv, have you changed your phone habits?

[Liberal_in_LA]

Think of all the intimate, gossipy, private, not-for-public phone conversations you have had. Most likely some reside on the guvs big tape recorder. Are you now self censoring?

16 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	yes, i censor myself
	1 (6%)
	no
	11 (69%)
	other
	4 (25%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[burnodo]

1. No

I talk to my dealer often

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. I gotta talk to the boss often

But if I have an investigative anything will go the old way if at all possible.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. other:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ba0cc80eec/nsa-wiretapping-public-service-announcement

[Rhiannon12866]

23. You need to post this in Videos!

[railsback]

37. That one is a definite 'die'.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

4. Nope.

But I must admit that I did think of that possibility (being listened to) the other day when talking to an old friend...

[dkf]

5. I don't use the phone very often, I text and use the Internet.

I've changed all my devices to remove location services, I've changed my browser, and removed my cookies. I wish I knew how to get rid of all potential snooping while still being able to make use of what I spend a goodly sum on, but now I look at it all as a potential instrument of the government and their corporate partners. This does not promote happy feelings.

[Curmudgeoness]

6. Fuck em.....no.

Besides, if I would bury myself with something I say today, I am already buried.

[Atman]

7. I grew up in the seventies.

People my age have always assume our phone calls are monitored. Always. Ironically, it is today's kids who have never experienced any expectation of privacy who seem to be outraged. They post naked make out beer bong pictures, but are SHOCKED to hear that the government is doing what is old folks have assumed all along.

[Xipe Totec]

8. You got that right

I always make snarky remarks about our paranoid surveillance system, in the off chance that actually are listening.

[monmouth3]

44. I'm starting to regret snarky remarks I made re Agent Mike. I hope he'll forgive/forget..n/t

[bemildred]

13. +1. Totally agree. nt

[arcane1]

14. Hey man, do you have any more hats? I need at least two.

But not those hats like last time, they were too brown!



Funny thing is, I'm presently less paranoid about those kinds of phone calls than I was 20 years ago, though that's mainly due to a change in geography.

I highly (pardon the pun) doubt that there is someone actually, actively listening to my phone calls, or even paying any attention to them. I am also against this wholesale collection of phone data, no matter how unlikely it is that my data would draw attention, and no matter what new restrictions have been placed on that collecting.

It's been kind of sad to see this explosive false dichotomy on DU these past few days. Meanwhile, I still don't know WTF to think, because every article I read contradicts the one before it, and will be contradicted by the next one. The emotions and hyperbole are raging higher than I've ever seen here (except for perhaps the 2008 primary ).

I have seen reasoned, well-thought arguments in favor of both Snowden and Obama, and seen them all be attacked, and the attacks pointed at those who expressed the arguments rather than the arguments themselves. I've been afraid to express any patience or healthy skepticism for fear of being accused of being a paid operative, of either Obama or the repubs.

From my perspective, I've seen a lot of words but few facts, from both sides. I have not yet figured out WTF is going on, and if I ever do I think I'll fall somewhere between the two extremes.

Oh crap, this was a post originally about buying weed. I got sidetracked there for a minute

[pipi_k]

22. You just

described my thoughts so accurately!

Lots of personal attacks. Lots of hyperbole. Lots of "facts" that contradict each other.

What I've decided it comes down to is what people WANT to believe.

Like you, I don't have the faintest clue on what I "should" believe, so I stay out of the debates.


PS...

Sneaky Louie on his way with your regular order. Leave the money in the usual spot.

[arcane1]

26. Dammit! Don't say "money", say "I walked the dog and he peed on the same fence-post as last time"

On edit: The dog's name is "Sneaky Louie"

[Atman]

25. Good post...you write well when you're stoned!

[arcane1]

27. Hey, I'm not stoned, I'm "wearing a hat"

[jberryhill]

35. +1

[Recursion]

9. Knowing the government has unicorns, have you changed your driving habits?

For the last time, the government is not indiscriminately recording phone calls.

[Liberal_in_LA]

11. yes it is

[Recursion]

24. lying doesn't help anything

The government is not mass recording phone calls. If they were, they wouldn't need to ask carriers for records.

[Hekate]

42. Changed my driving patterns and everything. Those pointy little buggers are following me around.

[JustAnotherGen]

10. I never use the land line

And my calls are not being recorded. I'm more concerned about a fraudster hacking my email via my phone and getting bank information.

[Demo_Chris]

12. No need to yet. nt

[femmocrat]

15. Did no one listen to the president last night?

They are not recording your conversations. Even if they were, do you think the gubmint could afford to hire enough people to actually LISTEN to them all? Or even to SIFT through them?

And seriously, do you really think your conversations are that interesting???

[nobodyspecial]

18. Why let facts get in the way

of the shared fantasies of so many here.

[randome]

20. Anger management issues, maybe? Really, what's with the feeding frenzy?

The whole point of the OP is bogus. 'Knowing'? Because a guy in Hong Kong says so?

I thought Progressive Thought depended on facts wherever they led.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Life Long Dem]

30. A Teabagger guy at that.

[JoePhilly]

49. Your last sentence is the funny part of all this.

The government isn't recording every phone call. The idea is silly.

Here's a transcript of what 80-90% of it would sound like ...

Girl: "I love you."

Boy: "I love you to."

Girl: "Ok, bye"

Boy: "Bye"

Girl: "Did you hang up."

Boy: "No."

Girl: "Hang up."

Boy: "No. You hang up."

Girl: "NO ... you hang up."

Boy: "You hang up".

Girl: "You hang up"

Boy: "No, you first"

Girl: "Ok, let's hang up at the same time."

Boy: Ok ... 1, 2, 3, hang up."

Girl: "You didn't hang up."

Boy: "Neither did you."

Girl: "Ok, let's try again ... "

Boy: "Ok, 1, 2, 3.

And this goes on until one of their cell phone batteries dies.

The suicide rate at the NSA would be off the charts.

[femmocrat]

50. So true!

[Bay Boy]

52. My thoughts exactly...

...how many thousands of people would it take to listen to millions upon millions of phone calls everyday?
I can just picture it:
NSA snoop: "That recipe Aunt Maude is giving to Cousin Edith sounds good, I've got to write that down"

[one_voice]

16. Nah...

I rarely talk on the phone. I think they'd die of boredom listening/reading my personal shit.

Except when I'm talking about my fantasy football team, someone might want to pay attention to that...

[magellan]

17. Other. I've only been aware of this practice since Bush**

Do I censor myself? No. But when Bush** was in office I did hesitate about things I wanted to say on the phone and write in emails, wondering if it might get me in trouble, and now I find myself doing it again. I resent the chilling effect.

[marions ghost]

19. same here

Who wasn't put off by the Homeland Security and Patriot Act stuff? I believe we were surveilled then and it sounds like it's only gotten worse.

[magellan]

21. Or at least hasn't changed much

I honestly didn't notice when Candidate Obama changed to President Obama on this issue. I trusted he had stuck by his original feelings and fixed this crap.

There's that goddamned word again. Trust.

Nevermore.

[marions ghost]

47. "Trust"

= the keyword. Sad not to trust. In any situation but especially the people who are ruling you.

IMO we deserve to be able to trust that our government works for us, not against us. But I don't think we can feel confident of that anymore. Obama hasn't fixed this but I am holding out hope that in the next couple of years he can do something to lessen the powers of this out of control agency. Really we are in a position of being subjugated to it if we don't do something now.

Lack of trust in leaders erodes social cohesion and affects everything so negatively. We have been betrayed and it doesn't feel good. (I don't put that all on Obama by any means--look at Pelosi. Look at Finestein. Look at congress in general). I have to think that some of them have just been snowed by the NSA and didn't really understand. An uncomfortable thought. We need consumer protections in this.

[magellan]

54. Government lost my confidence before Obama became President

And sadly that hasn't changed. It's not just about the Repubs, who are obvious maladroits and purveyors of propaganda and hate. The corporate influence is almost always on display in both parties, and my feeling is nothing of import will change until we minimize that influence. Needless to say, with the current national party in place, I won't be holding my breath. Pro-business centrists have been as ruthless about sweeping liberals from the party as the Tbaggers have been in expelling any moderate influence from their ranks.

As far as I'm concerned the centrists can talk till they're blue in the face -- they've lied so thoroughly and so often I don't even bother rolling my eyes anymore when they speak. I now tend to jump right to believing the opposite of what they say is where the truth lies.

Sad. That rule works with the Repubs, and now it's working with the Dems too.

[marions ghost]

60. You are exactly where I am

It's not working anymore. The corporate interests of both parties have succeeded in subverting Democracy in America.

Yes, it's sad --and I have no idea where it will end up. There are so many really good people in this country. Hard working, honest, caring, smart--but I think a little too stoic and willing to put up with being abused by their rulers. Too willing to trust when there is no good reason to have it. People need to stop denying what is going on and help bring about some major changes. We cannot give in to Corporatocracy. It doesn't work. It's the old "company store" attitude on a grand scale--keeping people downtrodden so you can do anything you want with them and their tax money. Jerking the masses around, calling it representative government when the people are not adequately represented. I resent the fact that they've now reduced people in this country to scrabbling for the basics, worried to death, scraping just to get by. While they gain more and more money and power. And now this indefensible massive surveillance on all of us. Insult and injury.

I see it the same way.

[magellan]

62. The phrase "being gaslighted" comes to mind

That's what I see being done to Americans. They're given something or someone to rally around -- a personality, a party, an issue or agenda -- and the abuse proceeds from there. Slowly and stealthily, so it's normalized in degrees. The victims never quite get what they thought they would. It's all about the abuser getting what they want.

Anyone who's ever been in a close relationship with such a person knows exactly what being gaslighted is like. You start out thinking things are a little off, but assurances are made, and this person is so very important to you that it's easy to excuse the strange crap that doesn't fit. You begin to wonder if maybe it's you. It helps that they're accusing you of being too demanding. Maybe your expectations are a little unrealistic. Yeah, that's it. They toss you bone. See? They really do care. Bond reinforced. Abuse continues. Rinse and repeat, until you're defending them to the police after they've robbed you blind and left you holding several dozen parking tickets.

Or you're defending the party that just voted to cut food stamps but is willing to spend money to arm the Syrian rebels plus leave a few F-16s and Patriot missile batteries behind in Jordan after a annual joint military exercise is done. (Acknowledging that Obama has threatened to veto the Farm Bill if the cuts to SNAP are "too deep", but we'll see. I'll bet the corporate pork will remain pretty much intact no matter what.)

Quite sincerely, I think those who've completely stepped away from politics are the sane ones!

[marions ghost]

64. I certainly am doubting my memory, perception & sanity

at this point--I'd say you're right about the use of the gaslighting technique. Excellent description of how it works.

I can't seem to step away. It's scarier to be unaware to me.

[magellan]

65. That's very bad

We could be twins.

Yeah, I can't seem to step away for too long either. I need to know what's going on.

On a tangent, have you ever seen the film "Gaslight" starring Charles Boyer and Ingrid Bergman? If not, do. Creepy, but not at all political so a good break for weary minds.

[jazzimov]

28. No, because they are NOT recording the call.

Read the leaked FISC warrant. It specified NO CONTENT.

[davidpdx]

29. No

Just fart into the phone more often. "I'm sorry there is some static..."

[Savannahmann]

31. Not really.

I still use an enigma program to encrypt an email and send it to an alternate addy. I encrypt the 4th Amendment, so when they decrypt it, they see they weren't supposed to. I've been doing that for some time though.

[CakeGrrl]

32. NO.

I seriously doubt they're listening to my calls (NO, that does not mean that I don't believe they aren't capable - two different things), and I have nothing to hide.

[dballance]

33. No, not at all.

Really, many of us mostly realized this was going on since the Bush Admin and "Warrantless Wiretapping" (actually, long before). Especially those of us who are tech nerds like Snowden and me. There seem to be quite a lot of us nerds now though and I know I've mentioned it on more than one occasion and with quite a serious tone to my friends. Not that I know anyone who is involved in government work enough to care about "National Security." But I've chastised many, many of my friends for their online practices they take for granted like FaceBook, MySpace, Twitter or their e-mail accounts. Not because of the government, but because of the civil/criminal liabilities it could cause them. Discovery in a civil or criminal case, not brought by the Feds, could be devastating to just about anyone now. Even the most Pollyanna, innocent person.

Many of the common data-warehousing, data-encryption and data-mining techniques pre-date W. Bush and 9-11. The NSA certainly does. They were most likely developed by the contract firms for the government as such much of the great leaps we've made in the US have always been. The ability of our government to siphon off data in huge amounts as opposed to their ability to analyze that data has been and issue for a while. They've been drinking out of the fire-hose for decades. That's not so much of an issue any longer. That's only going to get easier and easier for them to find the specific needles in the haystacks. That's why they're teaming with Google and Amazon.

ON EDIT: I believe one of the most important things Snowden has brought to the forefront is that it is so often "policy" not technology regulating how one behaves. The ability to employ enough watchers to watch the watchers gets expensive and difficult pretty quickly.

[madamesilverspurs]

34. I ask again --

Where are the millions of listeners who are supposedly listening to multiple billions of phone conversations? And where are the millions of peekers who are supposedly monitoring every single sentence posted on the internet? And if they're so good and so ubiquitous, why didn't they "detect" Snowden's gabfest with Greenwald and why haven't they pegged his current location? But okay, I'll log off now, just in case.

[Rex]

36. Why?

Wouldn't that arouse suspicion?

[LeftInTX]

38. We never got rid of our party line,

so the entire world is privy to all of our conversations.

Just joking, but I remember the days!

[Rowdyboy]

39. Of course not. I've known I could be overheard since the 1970's. Only a fool would talk openly on

the phone. And its ALWAYS been that way.

[BainsBane]

41. especially if your phone is a cell phone

and many of only have cell phones now. People can sometimes pick those calls up on baby monitors.

[BainsBane]

40. Nope, I'm just as boring as I ever was

If I knew they were listening to me in particular I might spice it up for their benefit.

[Hekate]

43. Once I read about a guy who knew he was being wiretapped by the FBI

So every single morning, the first call of the day that he picked up was greeted with, "Fuck J. Edgar Hoover. How can I help you?" And those were the days when "fuck" was a shocking word.

As for me, what earthly point would there be in censoring my conversations?

[quaker bill]

45. Sometimes I wish I had something that interesting to say on the phone

but for the most part I don't. If they want to record me discussing the recent rainfall, have at it.

[Phentex]

46. I would be in jail if they cared

when I think of the things I said about GWB and Newt...I'm on a list somewhere.

[FSogol]

48. I now answer the phone by reciting the Lord's Prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance.

If the caller is still on the line, I then sing the 2nd verse of "God Bless America" followed by "Take me out to the ball game."

BTW, it is now 2013. What is a tape recorder?

[allin99]

51. No one's listening to your d-mn phone calls.

[randome]

57. I am.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Bluzmann57]

53. No

I seldom talk on the phone anyway. Last night I talked to my mom and if talking about my wife, kid, and basketball is a crime then I'm guilty as sin. We are both Liberal types and so I guess that may be "incriminating" but no changes in my phone habits.

[HappyMe]

55. Nobody is recording the damn phone calls.

[Liberal_in_LA]

61. .

[HappyMe]

63. ..

I assume you aren't talking on the phone anymore, tossed your cell, and have dumped your email account.
I hope you enjoy your bunker life.

[LanternWaste]

56. I can only wish my life were as exciting to need changes in my phone habits.

I can only wish my life were as exciting to need changes in my phone habits. As it stands, (and depending on who one discusses the issue with), the gov't has either only a Call Made: 15:24:36 06/10/13, Dur: 1:30; or the more nefarious "Hi mom-- calling to check in with you, and see if you want to come over for dinner with Kerri and myself tomorrow night" records of me.

Can't really justify changing any of my personal habits for a benign personal consequence..

[Zorra]

58. I'm sure my sometimes lurid, torrid sexting is entertaining but I'm pretty

sure they won't try to use it against me unless I campaign for a political office, and besides that, our rapidly accelerating empathic and psychokinetic abilities naturally protect us from interference. There's absolutely nothing they can do but stumble around in an illusion while the adults calmly and peacefully take over.

[uppityperson]

59. Knowing phone calls are NOT being recorded, I haven't changed my phone habits.