What we as Democrats and Obama will own.

[Safetykitten]

Of course the financial crisis. We will be blamed for giving money away, saving banks that do not deserve it, the actual financial meltdown after republican revisionism, and Wall Street excesses.

We will be blamed for not prosecuting bankers, having the most people on Food Stamps in history, high unemployment and a generally shitty economy for eight years.

The blame will be put on our doorstep for NSA abuses, throwing Snowden and all other like him under the bus, having a regressive police/corporate state and an erosion of privacy.

The nightmare that Obamacare will be and will morph into.

Wasting YEARS playing nice guys with the republicans...for nothing.

[The Link]

1. drone murder as well. social security cuts.

[jsr]

3. Yep, it was Obama

who offered to sacrifice Social Security in the name of deficit reduction.

[JoePhilly]

6. When are those cuts going to kick in, btw?? I mean with all the breathless

predictions here on DU that such cuts were IMMINENT over the last 4+ years, one might think they actually happened.

[Safetykitten]

9. Living in the moment of nothing happening, so it's ok. Nothing is happening...now.

this instant.

[JoePhilly]

12. And its not going to happen.

Has never been close to happening.

Will not happen.

But please, feel free to run in circles screaming about how its absolutely, positively about to happen at any second.

That seems to be a hobby here on DU anyway and its fun to watch.

[Safetykitten]

13. Thank you for your assurances, I know we all can sleep because of you.

[JoePhilly]

15. How one sleeps with their hair constantly on fire is a

mystery to me.

[Safetykitten]

21. you are equally mysitfying as a comfortable Democrat that sees nothing but CandyLand.

[JoePhilly]

25. There is a vast distance between Hair-on-fire and Candyland ... not that

you would realize that apparently.

An so in your mind, if one is not running in circles with their hair on fire, they must be in Candyland.

Probably why, even given all of the improvements I listed ... you see such things as "nothing".

Hair-on-fire ... or Candyland.

[Safetykitten]

26. Anyone that posts that kind of propaganda is a CandyLand Democrat. Shortsighted also.

[JoePhilly]

32. Short sighted would be preferring nothing to an ACA that moves in the

right direction, but does not yet go as far as we would like.

You want it all NOW, or nothing.

And THAT would be short sighted.

[Safetykitten]

41. People are dying as you may know, or may want to repress.

[JoePhilly]

46. And they'd be dying WITHOUT the ACA too ... or do you not get that?

The fact is that FEWER people are dying with the ACA than would without. Lots fewer.

[Safetykitten]

50. Joe, tell us your uninsured story, I for one would love to hear it!

[JoePhilly]

58. When I was a kid, my family did not have any insurance at all.

And I was asthmatic (still am).

You ever been unable to breathe and know that there is nothing that's going to help you?

Imagine being 6 or 7 and having your mother tell you to calm down and breathe slower because if you breathe too fast, you might pass out, and die. Try to stay calm under those conditions as an adult.

I had to manage asthma attacks on my own until I was in my mid 20s. Either slow my breathing and wait for the attack to pass, or go to the emergency room, while staying perfectly calm.

I have to say ... given your question ... I'm guessing you thought you knew something about me and my life.

You don't.

[Safetykitten]

60. This is not about YOUR past. It's about OUR future, and your ease of denegrating...

what other people go through daily...MILLIONS! Why, because you can't think about them right now, you have a President and a party to defend no matter what, that has lost it's way first.

[JoePhilly]

67. Your bitterness is going to eat you alive.

I find it interesting that you are accusing me of denigrating others ... even as you hurl insults at me.

[Safetykitten]

73. How is it insulting to point out that people that have constantly go after people that do not...

why? They have a point to make. HC? Easy? Propaganda is that is will solve all, we will all be happy and everyone will be able to afford it and all will be taken care of and there will be no more bankruptcies because of it and everyone will see a doctor and it will be so affordable and if you cant afford it you are a loser anyway and so you deserve it and it will solve the budget deficit and...

But you, and others like you? That part about not having insurance or the ability to get any, and it not being in effect until 2014, but you and others can say I am an idiot for questioning it's success?

So amazingly sick and twisted that you think I am the one with issues.

On edit...People that "have" going after people who "don't have" is not just a republican past-time.

[JoePhilly]

80. I can barely read your first sentence. And your second sentence is even worse.

The one word that stands out to me in that 2nd sentence is "loser".

That word has not appeared anywhere in our respective posts, until now.

Why?

I don't think those who do not have insurance are losers ... do you?

My parents did not have insurance, they were not losers. My sister did not have insurance, she's not a loser. While I have insurance now, I could easily be without it in the future. Would that make me a loser, no.

But apparently, you have decided that I think that those without insurance are losers.

And then, you conclude I'm "sick and twisted" for thinking that the uninsured are losers. Even though I think no such thing. Nor have I suggested it.

Again, your bitterness is not helping you. You are making assumptions that are false, and then building fantasies on top of them.

[Safetykitten]

84. It has been made abundantly clear with other people that are insured and love the ACA...

say that you have "issues" if you cannot afford the proposed fee for the new ACA monthly rates. This from people here that defend the ACA with such ferocity you would think they worked at Blue Cross.

Don't make up the facts, just report em'

[JoePhilly]

89. So you are ascribing to me, the positions of others ...

... its not reporting the facts when you take the quotes of one person and then ascribe them to another.

Which is what you did.

[Safetykitten]

92. I am pointing out my experience as a "doom" guy on ACA on DU. Me and others...

are mystified by people that have insurance telling the non-insured it will be a perfect world. not yet, just wait and see!

[JoePhilly]

103. Where did I say it would be a pefect world?

Continually through this discussions, you have mis-characterized my words.

You have ascribed to me positions that I do not hold.

You have demanded my uninsurance history, and then when provided, declared it irrelevant and less important than your own.

Similarly, I've learned that my sister's lack of insurance, and my involvement, is less important that your lack of insurance. I guess sisters and nieces aren't real family members.

You've accused me of denigrating the uninsured when I did no such thing.

And now, I apparently told you the world will be perfect.

Talk about being mystified.

[Safetykitten]

107. The very act of broadcasting your approval of a yet to be started ACA plan, and your...

telling me I am basically completely wrong in my future telling as YOUR future telling is the CORRECT future, and as an added bonus, you really have no part of the issue personally as just you as you are INSURED...that is mystifying.

[JoePhilly]

116. Aspects of the ACA are in place now

And they are helping people.

That's a fact, not a prediction.

And having lived without insurance before, and having close relatives with none now, is a constant reminder that I could easily be without again.

And it's arrogant for you to think that one must be without insurance now to have any stake in it.

It's also very short sighted.

[Safetykitten]

120. Yes, I agree. Short sighted on your part.

[Egalitarian Thug]

131. I'm sure that he will, of course, do the honorable thing and liquidate every asset

and use the proceeds to help alleviate any suffering caused should this unlikely certainty occur.

[Itchinjim]

2. 81.....

[SidDithers]

18. Nailed it...

Sid

[Safetykitten]

23. Sid, your cryptic items are hilarious.

[One of the 99]

4. Don't forget rainy days, earthquakes and Will Smith's last film.

Since you're piling on.

[JoePhilly]

7. ... and my flat tire 2 weeks ago.

[JoePhilly]

5. Doubling the stock market ... saving GM ... ending Iraq war ...

Dropping unemployment from 10.2% to at a minimum of 7.6% (will probably be lower by the time Obama leaves office) ... ending DADT (and probably DOMA) ... ending Afgan war ... killing OBL ... improving home values (major component of middle class wealth) ... stopping a 2nd great depression.

And my 17 year old neice will remember Obamacare for protecting her being denied insurance due to the pre-existing cancer she had when she was 2 years old.

Yup ... nothing.

[Safetykitten]

10. This is the funny part.

[JoePhilly]

14. The endless doom and gloom, yes, very funny.

Silly yes ... but still very funny.

[Safetykitten]

17. Your points, hold them close, you will need them very soon as they will make people laugh.

I like how Obamacare took care of someone you love, sadly, it saved her but threw others away, and they died.

[JoePhilly]

22. And if you can't get everyone into the life boat, sink it.

Because that would be better.

btw ... you claimed the ACA will become a disaster. No facts to back that up, you just declared it. Fact is, it is helping lots and lots of people. And if that lifeboat did not exist, even more people would die.

Great plan you have there.

[Safetykitten]

24. The ACA is just starting, just like deregulation, privatization and general corporate shit, we will

see in the very near future how fucked we will be. But for most Democrats like you it's the short game.

[JoePhilly]

27. Ahhh ... so I should be upset about a bad thing that YOU PREDICT will happen ...

rather than feel positive about the good things that are ACTUALLY HAPPENING right in front of my face.

Got it.

[Safetykitten]

31. Predict? Have you talked to any republicans lately? Oh wait, where YOU live there are not any.

[JoePhilly]

33. You (like the Republicans), PREDICT that the ACA will be a disaster.

And I see it actually working.

Not sure what part of that is confusing to you.

[Safetykitten]

45. Does it work personally for you? Just you?

tell us your uninsured story. Tell us how YOU got Obamacare. Tell us your personal story of insurance coverage triumph.

[JoePhilly]

53. For just me ... no, not currently.

As we sit here today, the ACA has no effect on me personally, one way or the other.

The first point at which it might help me is next year. My son will turn 20 and we will either keep him on our insurance (thanks to the ACA), or we'll get him insurance through his college. They offer a group plan and I'll compare my options. So, it is possible that I will keep him on my insurance, an option that did not exist prior to the ACA.

And then beyond that, I suspect that one day some years from now, it very well could help me personally. I've had a number of serious medical conditions over the years, each of which could be considered a pre-existing condition. In particular, one of these is a pre-cancerous condition that, should I need to change insurance, it would certainly be considered a pre-existing condition. And so if I were to develop that cancer, I would not be covered without something like the ACA.

I suspect that my situation is not uncommon. The ACA really does nothing for me personally today. But I know people that it is helping now, and I do see very tangible ways that it is likely to help me later.

Oh ... and now as I think about it more ... it does help me today. I've recently noticed that I no longer pay a co-pay for my regular doctor visits which are considered preventative, and part of monitoring my various medical issues.

So actually, yes, I do actually see a benefit (albiet small) right now. And I see tangible benefits down the road.

[Safetykitten]

55. Oh, so you don't HAVE any unisured issues, just regular insurance issues, like you son staying on

HC you already have. What a story! So you know what it is like to desperately try to get coverage. You have been through that, and can with certainty know it's just a thing people do on the road to center-right Democrat pull your own bootstraps success land membership!

I love these stories, these tales of woe that have turned into success stories all because of Obamacare!

[JoePhilly]

62. You know nothing about me.

Read my response to you in the other part of this thread.

I've lived with no insurance. And had serious medical conditions at the same time. I've also paid for coverage for family members who had none. Paid for their trips top emergency rooms too. Helped pay for my sister's daughter's cancer treatments.

Apparently, you think you are the only one who has had medical issues or insurance problems.

Your arrogance, combined with your ignorance, are staggering.

[Safetykitten]

81. But you said you had insurance now. See how that "now" works joe?

So you are good to go, no issues Joe. NOW you have insurance.

[JoePhilly]

83. Yes I do. Apparently, that's a crime in your world.

I see you are accusing others of the crime of having an opinion of the ACA while also having insurance.

I'm sorry you do not have insurance. I hope the ACA is expanded so that you get the help you need.

But I'm not going to apologize because I currently have insurance. I know exactly what its like to have a serious medical condition and no insurance. I know what its like to have immediate family members (and extended family members) in the same situation.

For you to think you are the only one who knows what its like is ridiculous.

[Safetykitten]

90. Don't apologize. But don't tell people that the AC is the best thing since sliced bread...

when you yourself HAVE insurance AND can postulate it will be a resounding success no matter what, oh and by the way...tell you your uninsured family members your points and glee of success on a program they cannot get until 2014.

[Unca Jim]

87. Joe Philly, you are my hero today.

I cannot tell you how often I have these types of exchanges with dear friends. This kind of absolutism is endemic on the left.

Thanks for keeping it logical and reasonable while still pointing out how terribly flawed the high-horse bitterness about ACA is.

[Safetykitten]

93. Life and death and the care you get, tends to be absolute in it's outcomes. Messy life is...

especially when you can lean back and muse about it.

[JoePhilly]

97. Hey, thanks ... I really appreciate that.

The ACA is not perfect. Single payer would be better. But the ACA is not a disaster. And its helping lots of people.

On so many topics, you'd like to have a discussion of the progress made, and the progress that's yet to be made, and how to get there.

But that's not always possible. Particularly here on DU these days.

[Unca Jim]

139. So true.

I agree completely.

[JaneyVee]

34. History has Bill Clinton at a 70% approval rating. He gave us DADT & DOMA, missed OBL.

I'm sure Obama's legacy will be just fine. Unprecedented Republican obstruction will be the theme as well.

[Safetykitten]

40. That's so funny, them being blamed. I love that part!

[JaneyVee]

54. Them who? You're the only person blaming anyone.

[Safetykitten]

59. Republican obstructionism being the blame. So fascinating you think that way.

[JaneyVee]

66. Fascinating that your OP is just you basically making a shitty psychic prediction.

Fascinating that you think that way.

[Safetykitten]

68. Cool, we will see then.

[JaneyVee]

74. Wait, are you talking about for elections or for legacy? I agree that some of

that will be used against us electorally, but it won't be legacy.

[Safetykitten]

79. Both.

[tblue]

82. Blaming Clinton for DADT really isn't fair.

I remember exactly how that came down.

The existing policy was an absolute ban against gays in the military. He moved within his first month as POTUS to do away with that, per his campaign promise. But he got enormous blowback from everyone, especially military brass, especially Colin Powell(!!!), who helped craft a compromise that was DADT. It was not at all what Bill Clinton wanted. But, being a brand new POTUS who, during the election campaign, had been criticized for having zero military cred, he deferred to Powell and others.

I remember because I was watching closely as this unfolded. And I remember saying, "He never thought people could be this bigoted."

[Safetykitten]

85. Life is not fair. The President can handle some blame.

[treestar]

108. Interesting, he compromised

To make some progress. Had it been Obama today it would have been about how Obama didn't do enough to get even more. Heck Obama is still accused of LGBT bigotry and not having done enough when he signed an actual repeal.

[great white snark]

16. The first sitting President to support marriage equality did all that nothing.

[Safetykitten]

19. The other funny part. This is probably the only thing that will be a positive...

I thought that gay issues like these would be never be done, oddly, everything else is a mess, except this.

[JoePhilly]

20. No one is going to remember that ... pfffft.

... and apparently, people are always really angry at the fireman for getting their burning stuff all wet.

And that's all they remember after the fire.

[KharmaTrain]

29. Shhhhh...

...get back down here under the bus! Al Franken was just thrown under and we're having a fun time. The new DU meme is Obama is all evil and anyone who disagrees is an authoritarian or condones torture and eating kittens.

Amazing...yesterday the rushpublican House spent a day and who knows how much money voting to restrict a woman's right to choose and I barely saw a thread about it here. Guess I'm chasing the wrong bright shiny object...

Cheers...

[Safetykitten]

36. True, I need to know my place. Amazing post you just wrote. So true. Kinda.

[JoePhilly]

69. Just another day here on Hair-on-fire Underground.

[HardTimes99]

95. With all due respect, anyone who might have something to say on the subject of

Choice may be 'keeping his or her powder dry,' in anticipation of those words falling into the possession of a President Santorum or Palin, come 2017.

This is the so-called 'chilling effect' on free speech that invasions of privacy produce. IOW, behind the right to choose stands the right to privacy (decided in 1964 in Griswold v. New Hampshire). It is that larger right to privacy that many feel under grievous attack right now. That tends to focus the mind.

[KharmaTrain]

123. President Santorum Or Palin????

Wow...I sure could use whatever it is you're toking on my friend...

The chilling effect is how emotions have superseded the ability to objectively discuss an issue without going into attack mode...

[HardTimes99]

124. Your mockery reminds me of my associates who openly scoffed in 2000 at the idea that

we would see a President Bush inaugurated in January of 2001.

AKA: 'whistling past the graveyard'.

[KharmaTrain]

134. Hardly Mockery....

...I took dubya very serious when he and his cabal began buying up the rushpublican nomination in '99. The party was far more united than it is now. I hope that corrupt and inept party goes off the deep end and nominates someone who will immediately alienate a majority of voters. It'd be a lot easier to win than with a "moderate" who can smile pretty for the cameras, wow the corporate media and win on popularity and money rather than who they really are...

Cheers...

[zeemike]

129. "Obama is all evil "

Please link to where someone said that....I want to go there and give them a piece of my mind for using hyperbole like the right wingers do...

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Honestly that list you guys do has some valid points that would play better if

you did not insist on claiming DOMA when the opposite of progress is what defines this moment. DOMA is the law of the land. It harms my family's standing in life, Joe. It is not cute to use it as a pompom until it is won.
This is the single most cloying tactic used on DU. Some go so far as to claim 'DOMA is no longer enforced' others say 'gays have plenty of rights already'.
It is always tacky to demand credit for work left undone, smarmy to expect congratulations for continued discrimination.
If you folks would just not try to claim DOMA as a victory until it is won, you'd find far fewer angry responses. DOMA is the law of the land, used by YOUR community to do harm to my own community, right now, still, no end in sight. Deal with the facts, please.

[Safetykitten]

35. Thank you for your rationality in the usual situation dealing with devotees.

[Bluenorthwest]

47. It would be possible to celebrate the progress actually made without the demand that

we pretend DOMA is over and no longer enforced.
I do not respect those who claim they have done that which they have not done.

[JoePhilly]

70. Remember when the prediction here on DU was that Obama would never end DADT?

I do.

Lots of folks very angry while making that prediction.

Now that its gone, its trivial.

[treestar]

110. And the anger that he didn't do it by executive order

Where was the rage at Bill Clinton, too, for compromising to create DADT in the first place?

[progressoid]

64. Don't bogart that joint my friend.

I want some of what you're smoking because of few of those things are going to take some mind altering to believe.

Doubling the stock market...which doesn't help nearly half of America that have no investments.

Dropping unemployment ... and income dropping too.

Ending the Iraq war...which was actually a B* plan that our administration wanted to delay.

Improving home values...if your home hasn't been foreclosed.

Obamacare...My best to your neice. Meanwhile, we are putting pickle jars in convenience stores to collect money to try to save a teenager's life from cancer. Someone with insurance. Because insurance does NOT equal health care.

[Safetykitten]

99. Oh dear, you have fractured the narrative...they do not like that.

[one_voice]

135. they?

Safetykitten (3,802 posts)
112. "They"? Oh brother.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023046135#post112


Same 'they'? Different 'they'? Ok for one to use not the other? Different rules?

conflicting messages...

[zeemike]

133. "insurance does NOT equal health care."

Yes but mandatory insurance does equal major profits for insurance companies...and that is what some people love about it...big bonuses ahead for the CEOs and their vassals I presume.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

111. It will never be enough

They hate this guy, always have. And they'll hate the next guy too, no matter who it is. Some simply covet the struggle.

[Safetykitten]

112. "They"? Oh brother.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

122. If the shoe fits

So yeah, they.

[Zorra]

8. "Wasting YEARS playing nice guys with the republicans...for nothing."

Yep.

[HardTimes99]

101. Wonderfully a propos (and a great scene from

film history). Thanks!

[BenzoDia]

11. Nope on everything you listed except for the NSA bit. And it's possible Americans will forget about

that as well.

Drone strikes will be on the list, however.

[Safetykitten]

28. The NSA stuff will be front and center on republican ads though.

[BenzoDia]

43. Rand Paul will. But the establishment Republicans support it.

Graham, Cain, Boehner, McConnell, etc

[Safetykitten]

49. Until election time.

[Gore1FL]

125. We have videos of them supporting it. n/t

[treestar]

37. Why should republicans not share in that

You are one of the biggest Obama haters here so this is no surprise.

[Safetykitten]

38. Republicans are masters of deflection. They LIE. So we are always at their mercy.

Like the President says, we need to work together. Love a republican today!

[treestar]

56. We do have to work with them when they hold Congress

Note they are being extra stubborn with this President, filibustering just about everything, letting everything go crash, whether it be the debt ceiling or the sequester or what not. The things you mentioned have many causes, and Republicans are a big part of it, and so are the things that happened during the Bush Administration and earlier. So I don't see why you blame Obama, or the Democrats and not Republicans, the people who voted them in, and so forth.

[Safetykitten]

63. We will blamed if we like it or not.

[treestar]

75. Why? By whom?

Republicans? Unreasonable people?

[Safetykitten]

78. republicans are unreasonable people.

[Orsino]

138. Because the moneyed interests that own them...

...also own the media that will tell us otherwise.

[Harmony Blue]

39. I don't like that the Democratic party

isn't acting like an opposition party.

People will rally around someone that believes in something..the Democratic party is a jumbled mess that stays at the 'center".

[Safetykitten]

42. ....and the people that occupy the mushy center usually don't turn out to well...

[HardTimes99]

106. The Democratic Party is not an opposition party, nor do we have a

parliamentary form of government. The Democratic Party currently controls the Executive Branch and the Senate. So how could it act like an 'opposition party' in that context, even assuming we had a parliamentary system?

[MindPilot]

119. Then perhaps it could act like the party that's in power.

[HardTimes99]

121. Impossible also, because we currently have a divided government, whereby

Dems control the Executive and Senate, but Repubs control the House and retain the power to filibuster in the Senate. It's a wonder anything gets done at all, imo, with power so evenly divided.

[ProSense]

44. So

"We will be blamed for not prosecuting bankers, having the most people on Food Stamps in history, high unemployment and a generally shitty economy for eight years...The nightmare that Obamacare will be and will morph into."

...with three and a half years left in the Obama Presidency, you've decided to write his legacy?

"The most people on Food Stamps in history"?

Did you expect the food stamp program to fail people in the aftermath of the worst crisis in more than 70 years?

As for the Obamacare prediction, that's wishful thinking.

Krugman: Obamacare Will Be A Debacle — For Republicans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022896115

[Safetykitten]

48. I think I am safe throwing Krugman under the bus, as he has tire marks from DU already...

Food stamps...no I don't expect it, but it is a fact and it will be used by republicans. As for ACA devotees...they will be able to fill a room at the Holiday in in a year.

[ProSense]

51. "but it is a fact and it will be used by republicans"

So you're writing his legacy based on what Republicans will use against him?

[Safetykitten]

65. Isn't history writtenby the winners? At this stage, we are not winning.

[ProSense]

71. The Republicans are "winning"? n/t

[Safetykitten]

77. Yes, actually they are.

[Gore1FL]

126. Where?

They have lost the popular vote in at least 5 of the last 6 elections. They lost seats in the House and the Senate in 2012. The House Democrats got significantly more votes than the GOP. the GOP can only say "no" and introduce unpopular extremist legislation to no useful effect.

They are able to convince the same sheep that they are awesome that they have always convinced they are awesome. In doing so, they are losing the middle.

How is that winning?

[Safetykitten]

52. Countdown to Prosense clip and paste...5...4....3....

[ProSense]

72. Don't worry,

I already knew you had an agenda and were not serious. This is simply anti-Obama nonsense.

[Safetykitten]

76. I feel...safe and happy that you are here. Thank you.

[still_one]

57. So in YOUR infinite wisdom, YOU know Obamacare will fail. Where have I heard that before?

Yes, everything is Obama's fault, or that is your premise.

Your assessment is also wrong

[Safetykitten]

61. Another tale of the insured...tell us YOUR uninsured story.

[still_one]

137. I said nothing about insured or uninsured, I simply said it takes affect in 2014, and you already

declare it as failed

Some people said similar things about social security and Medicare when they were passed

So that is 2 out of 2, and we will know about The ACA in the course of time

[patrice]

86. Absolutist opinions. Perhaps you can appreciate problems people might have with such

crystal ball dictates. Apparently, everything you don't know doesn't matter.

I could just accept your right to engage in pontifications if you'd admit just the slightest probability that it is possible for you to be wrong. I do try to do that most of the time myself, because When people can't/ won't recognize their own degree of indeterminence, I see deliberate intent to engage in propaganda that results in self-fulfilling prophecies and that's the same dysfunction that put us in this place in the first place. We cause our own problems to a significant extent and then blame others for what I/you/we have created.

[Safetykitten]

94. Good point.

[patrice]

98. Reality is a very diverse event . . . a verb, actually. Thanks for not being angry. :-)

[Safetykitten]

105. Why would I be angry at that? Good point. But on percentages, the fight is...

the discussion is always in the hands of the people that have the current acceptance of the status quo. This case being a situation where monitoring, droning, killing, meta gathering, call listening, privacy crushing is done by our guy. These items will defended at all costs with ancillary points like ACA, bank regulation, and other items.

[patrice]

113. Yes! It's an uphill fight. Maybe I've been on the outside so long, and that includes with

the Democratic party, that I no longer think very much about how enormous the inertia is. I can feel it crushing everything, so I try not to think about it too much because I'm tired and afraid it's going to get me, turn me into a 0.

Something I have been thinking about lately: From the biological bases of behavior - biological thresholds that are comprised of different levels of trigger events. The Arab Spring may have been an example of that sort of thing on (pardon the reference) a meta- scale. Those thoughts keep me going. The main thing is to NOT go away, to be there and ready when it happens. Not going away is enough in itself, for me anyway, at this point, but I do hope it happens in my lifetime. I learned that from being around Civil Rights grassroots people who live by the principles of non-violence. I remember how happy I was when I stumbled upon them standing outside a cordoned off ritzy convention center here in Cupcake Land where Cheney was speaking in the summer of 2002.

[NCTraveler]

88. I have been fairly critical of Obama...

but he will be remembered very fondly. He will be remembered like a Clinton or Regan by the masses. Obamacare will have no bearing on how he will be remembered. When he leaves office people will start calling it the ACA. It is about propaganda and Obama will no longer be in office. It will also have so many changes made to it in the next two years that it won't resemble the original bill. Many changes have already occurred. A majority of the people won't give a shit about the bankers if the economy turns around. They truly made too big to fail even bigger and the masses don't give a shit. It is a great shame about the amount of food stamps. But as a democrat I am greatly appreciative that the democrats will fight for those funds. As the economy gets better I would like to see the increase continue. I would like to see the program available to a wider range of people.

Many here can do it better than I can, but you need an education on the economy. While Obama and the democrats aren't helping to deal with the systemic problems with the economy, the state of the economy isn't his fault. Have you heard of Regan, Bush, Clinton, Bush? While I would have like to have seen the democrats do more to change the economy, the fault will not be thrown at the feet of the democrats or Obama.

History shows that you are incorrect on how the democrats and Obama will be remembered by the masses with respect to the issues you mentioned. You seem to have conveniently left off many wonderful things the democrats and Obama have done.

[patrice]

91. BTW, is that "SAFETYKitten" as in SAFETY Dance? . . . or is it something more generic? nt

[Safetykitten]

96. I LOVE the Safetydance!

[patrice]

100. me too! There used to be this kind of 20th century folk movement to do it EVERYWHERE. nt

[Safetykitten]

102. I like to imagine doing that whole dance with my DU brothers and sisters...

down the street in Manhattan with those cool outfits and celebrating...oh, no wait...we are under watch and lookout! Mace!

[patrice]

104. We are dancing in the streets here in KC. It's a younger crowd, though, so I guess the Safety Dance

is not known to them.

[Safetykitten]

109. Why did you bring it up then, just a bon-mot to point out that I am old?

[patrice]

114. I thought you were young! So I was wondering about that apparent allusion to the Safety Dance.

I like poetry, so I'm usually watching for people who get it.

[Safetykitten]

115. Oh...ok...sorry about that.

[patrice]

117. It's okay. It's hard to understand other people in this environment. nt

[dionysus]

140. we can post if we want to...

"We can post on DU if we want to...
We can leave the dems behind...
'Cause your friends don't dance the greenwald dance and if they don't dance
Well they're no friends of mine
I say, we can post what we want to
hair on fire all the time...
And we can act like we come from out of this world
Leave the real one far behind
And we can dance...

oh its the greenwald dance...
oh its the snowden dance...
is it safe to dance?"

[Progressive dog]

118. It was all Obama's fault

and we get the blame too.
I guess we'll have to live with it. Ho Hum

[emulatorloo]

127. Super-duper Unrec for pushing Repub bullshit as fact

[Floyd_Gondolli]

130. Indeed

And another member of my moron...er...ignore list.

[forestpath]

128. I think Obama is proud of that considering how quick he was to deny that he

was a "raving liberal" the other day.

[SidDithers]

132. Thanks, Obama...

Sid

[AtomicKitten]

136. Pfft You suck at predictions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002273931#post23
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002574599#post18
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021252954#post95

[ProSense]

141. Thanks for the links.

[AtomicKitten]

142. it's DU gold

[Number23]

143. Damn. Didn't even need to click the second links, the first one was so freaking bad