So we don't care that every time we do busiiness over the phone our conversation is recorded by corp

[kelliekat44]

corporations and the people who contact us about business or even very personal information so long as it isn't a government agency?
And, we should expect that our government should not use the latest technology to try to ensure our safety? It's ok for businesses to intrude and actually deny us rights and privileges (think credit card industry)? ok Thanks.

[The Link]

1. terra, terra, terra!

[lob1]

2. Who says it's okay for business to spy on me.

I don't want anyone spying on me.

[graham4anything]

3. people seem to think that new technology should not be included in any law(why???so illogical).

I have noticed that with copyrights and digital music
everyone seems to think it is okay to just take it

Why would anyone go into the business of creating a song and do it for free?
What are those people suppose to live on???

And a brick/mortar store has tax, and costs people money to travel to.
Yet along comes the internet and people think it should be free?
Why?
A lot of the money problems states have would be solved if that inequity was addressed (as it will be shortly I hope).

Smith vs. Maryland decided the case in 1979.
Same as the 2nd amendment was written and from what the gun lovers say, militias meant Zimmerman minutemen, and not the national guard. And anyone in the world is entitled in some US states to go into a bar, drink, have a mundane argument and have a gun legally allowed to carry in.

Another court case addressed a regular letter, and how REASONABLE expections are a postal employee will indeed read and see ones address and the address one is sending it to.

email is just the 2013 version of a snail mail letter

Smith vs. Maryland decided the phone calls.

It is REASONABLE and it is legal.

it is NOT unreasonable, there is no spying and it is just another smear at THIS president and a last ditch effort by
the team of BushPaulfamilyinc to stave off the coming 2016 landslide they are going to face, and to get every last law
changed in 2013,14,15,16 before 1/17/2017 comes.

Of course it is reasonable to expect the government not to be in 1859 or to party like its 1999, when indeed it is 2013

Obviously the founding fathers didn't know about computers, the net, etc.
so obviously anything new should be incorporated into any law.

It is only logical, isn't it?

[Downwinder]

5. Intellectual Property should be taxed the same as Real Property.

Use the values they claim in Court.

[sabrina 1]

10. What's wrong with just taking digital music? The Government takes it. I thought you were in favor

just taking stuff because once you put it out there, and my phone calls are MY intellectual property, it belongs to everyone?

Have you changed your mind, or you being discriminatory about who has the right to take stuff and who doesn't??

I could find out if there are secret messages in the music, if terrorists have found a way to communicate through music., and possibly save lives.

[baldguy]

27. Your metadata & your phone calls don't belong to you. They belong to Verizon.

That's why the govt presents the warrant to Verizon and not to you when they need access to that info.

If you don't like that then get the law changed. But don't criticize the Obama Admin for following the law.

[ZombieHorde]

4. The corporations let us know in the beginning of the phone call that it may be recorded.

It's up front, and they only record their own phone calls, so I don't think this is the same thing.

[graham4anything]

8. Miracle on 34th street clearly showed all letters were being read

so anyone from say 1939 on in America who ever watched that Christmas movie, knows.

And letter=email
party line telephone=today's cell phone

one and the same

Anyone who buys a cell phone is already on record as having THAT phone so anyone knows your number anyhow

Why have any law at all?
Why not just have complete and utter chaos and anarchy.

Let's get rid of all traffic lights and for that matter, brakes on cars. After all, who needs to stop?

Sheesh, how in the world does anyone think when you dial a number, that it gets to the number you dialed?
Is it magic?
It is reasonable to think if you dial (what's that song) 867-5309 that your call is going to go to Jenny.
It is not voodoo.

You reasonably expect it. It is NOT unreasonable in the first place.

btw, if everything were set in stone, why are there any amendments to start off with.

It's like,
hey, wait a minute, we forgot this, let's add this and they kept adding things til they got hungry and adjourned and went to eat.

[sabrina 1]

11. So why were they not able to find the Boston Bomber's phone #?

[graham4anything]

15. That actually proves they are not listening in to a NON-international terrorist

because they are not international terrorists, just 2 fifteen minutes of fame seeking thrill killers

so it proves they are not listening in, doesn't it?

Not to mention, the one it is said did a triple murder a few years earlier, meaning he was a serial thrill killer like the person who
organized the Tate murders years ago and this had nothing to do with OBL

one would think that alone proves they are not listening in on USA matters as this was not an international group of terrorists,
just two thrill kill 15 minutes of fame seekers, akin to the killers of Tate and John Lennon or Dorner.

and the 2 thrill kill fame seekers it is said planned it for july 4th, not that day, so even they themselves did not know when where or what they were doing.

But one can be sure it won't happen that way again, same as 9-11 has not happened.

AsBenjamin Franklin said "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".

[sabrina 1]

19. Lol, except they are telling us that collecting phone numbers will help them catch terrorists. So

you admit now that it doesn't!

Good, that's what we've been trying to tell you from the beginning.

And they had them on radar too. If they can't use this program to catch someone who had been on their radar for more than two years, then how on earth can they catch someone with the same program who they don't even know about.

See the problem?? The Boston bombers were the exact scenario they are trying to use to justify this program. But even you admit it is ridiculous because they 'aren't listening'. Well they should have been listening to him being he was not a US Citizen and was already flagged, and questioned, as a possible threat.

Thanks, you are correct, the program is a scam. It is not being done to catch terrorist, it is most likely being done for money.

[graham4anything]

21. They were not international terrorists, therefore your statment is not correct.

you are making an argument that is disingenuous apples and oranges

Besides, seatbelts save many lives, however, every once in a while a seatbelt can cause a death

Not all texters die in an accident, but it doesn't mean texting isn't something that should be banned in a car
(if not mistaken, just the other day there was a horrible car accident with someone who was texting).

IMHO if it saves ONE life, then it is worth it.

So your gotcha is no gotcha at all.

And I do hope the law in New Jersey goes through that police can have the right to look at ones cell phone at the scene of an accident to see if they were texting. It makes perfect sense, like a black box in an airplane.

[sabrina 1]

22. Lol, except he was talking to people in Russia, in Chechnya and other parts of the world. Didn't

they tell us they CAN listen to people in other countries, and he WAS in one of those 'terrorist' countries for months. And during that time, Russia alerted our government about his radical beliefs and who he was associated with.

So this is no needle in a haystack we are talking about. This one stood out like sore thumb without thimble. Yet, you say he slipped through the cracks. So if someone who is a PROMINENT suspect, visiting a know radical region of the world, warned about by another nation, can slip through the cracks, explain please how in the name of that is logical do you think they can find someone they never heard of before, who never left the country, who never talked to anyone overseas?

I want to hear this because so far, you are making no sense for which I can't say I blame you, because none of this MAKES any sense.

It would have saved several lives if this outrageous 'program' had a snowball's chance in hell of working, but it doesn't. So we have to find out what the real reason for their 'data collecting' is, because it sure isn't to catch terrorists.

[graham4anything]

23. I have relatives overseas and make international calls myself (OMG)

so again, they had relatives. Wow. Most of us came from other countries and have relatives.

they were amateur hour, and all their info was gotten on line
Their uncle pegged them correct- they were losers, not international terrorists

which proves THEY ARE NOT SPYING

however, there has not been one major airline event since 9-11 from planes originating in the USA.

BTW-what do you think is in those magical space missions all the time that aren't ones with famous astronauts in it.
What do you think is going to the satellites?

personally, I am more concerned at guns/bullets and events like Aurora.
Those can be 100% stopped, and take away nothing from anyone except the gun/bullet which the original 2nd did NOT agree with today's version.
Those are real things. Not conceptual ones.

Mr. Martin in Florida could still be alive today but for the inane rules.

While people are focusing on abstracts, real people lose all their rights when shot and killed or harmed (or a family member or friend) of someone who is shot.

[sabrina 1]

24. Were you on a terrorist suspect list?

Not only did THIS ridiculous program not work, the old proven intelligence methods didn't work either. And they allow far more surveillance especially when someone actually is on their radar.

So if they didn't work, it's no surprise that something as ridiculous as collecting phone numbers, which they could get from the yellow pages, couldn't possibly work.

Look, it's useless to try to defend it, everyone knows that, even those who are trying to distract from the issue.

So why are they watching our phone calls? It sure isn't about terror. Follow the money.

[disidoro01]

25. He

is using a 70some year old christmas movie as evidence of government conduct. I don't think you'll get to far with Graham, he's lost it.

[HiPointDem]

13. they do? we're not talking about calls to their service department here, we're talking about

e.g. *all* the calls you make through verizon.

[Amonester]

6. I get calls from I don't know where they come from...

(pre-recorded "enthusiastic" female voice) "YOu've been selected..." CLICK <= me hanging up

I luv hanging 'em up so much I can't wait for the next one!

[alittlelark]

7. I'll pay for that! As a corporation I will PAY $$$$ for that!!!!!!

....just don't tell anyone I'm doing it.

[Prism]

9. I'm ok with my cable company knowing about my cable issues

And my doctor can have my medical records.

And the local newspaper customer service can know how I feel about their delivery service.

The government cannot sit around and take in my entire life without asking me.

I don't get why this is a difficult concept.

[sabrina 1]

12. It's not difficult at all. That's why there is all this desperation trying to defend it. When

something is not a problem, no one gets upset over it. The very fact that people are so angry is proof positive that they know it is wrong and there are no defenses for it, so they resort to attacking anyone who points out the many, many problems there are with what has been described as the 'the most massive surveillance program ever'. Of course it's simple, it's just plain wrong, a dangerous threat to this democracy, and it should be stopped immediately.

It should have been stopped after Bush was caught doing it and he should have been prosecuted under the law that existed at the time. But instead of doing that, they changed the law which made things worse, it legalized what had been illegal. What could possibly go wrong when so many people at that time, were outraged, including a whole lot of those now screaming in defense of it.

But Bush was president then.

[Prism]

16. We need to look forward!

The abyss is forward, yeah?

[sabrina 1]

20. Yes, and this is what happens when you step over bodies and pretend you don't see them, and just

keep looking forward.

Had Bush and his telecoms been prosecuted when they were caught breaking the law back then, as we on the Left were demanding, none of this would be happening now. But some on 'our side' were taking their lead from the 'leaders'. So when Congress fixed the law to make Bush's crimes legal and some of their favorite Dems voted for that egregious and blatant abuse of power, they got in step and since then have been desperately trying to defend something that cannot be defended.

[HiPointDem]

14. except that your phone company stores and records *all* your calls. handing them over to

the government in addition is just the icing on the poison cake.

[Prism]

17. I'm ok with itemized billing

I mean how else am I supposed to figure out who I drunk dia. . . I mean, how I spend my minutes.

But the executive branch can eat a dick if they think how often I call my parents is any if their business. I get enough grief from them about it as it is.

[randome]

29. You should call them now. They worry about you.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Rex]

18. But the corporations don't care and you cannot do anything about it.

Has nothing to do with you or I caring, it has been the standard in some way or another since the Cold War and not the exception. That some are just now discovering this is interesting.

[Buzz Clik]

26. Only if it's Monsanto or Microsoft. Maybe Olive Garden and Home Depot.

Or Whole Foods. Or Walmart. And oil companies. Frackers. Any company owned by a Bagger.

Nevermind. We hate everyone and everything, and we're all gonna die.

Where's the outrage?

[randome]

28. The phrase 'quality assurance' birthes another tendril of the all-encompassing Prism!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
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