General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBreaking ’08 Pledge, Leaked Trade Doc Shows Obama Wants to Help Corporations Avoid Regulations
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/6/14/breaking_08_pledge_leaked_trade_docA draft agreement leaked Wednesday shows the Obama administration is pushing a secretive trade agreement that could vastly expand corporate power and directly contradict a 2008 campaign promise by President Obama. A U.S. proposal for the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade pact between the United States and eight Pacific nations would allow foreign corporations operating in the U.S. to appeal key regulations to an international tribunal. The body would have the power to override U.S. law and issue penalties for failure to comply with its ruling. We speak to Lori Wallach, director of Public Citizens Global Trade Watch, a fair trade group that posted the leaked documents on its website. "This isnt just a bad trade agreement," Wallach says. "This is a 'one-percenter' power tool that could rip up our basic needs and rights." [includes rush transcript]
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)to say this is just a draft agreement and nothing big if there wasn't a track record with respect to trade agreements and the administration. I would like to know what "draft agreement" means. Is it a basic outline that has been agreed upon by all parties, pending minor changes. Is it something written by the eight Pacific nations and the basic structure has not been agreed upon by the administration. I didn't see that in there. Maybe the term "draft agreement" has a precise definition in these situations and I uneducated as to that definition.
Edit to clarify a sentence.
Berlum
(7,044 posts)
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)YES IT CAN!
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)The powers that be are using industrial backhoes these days.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Puts the internal spying on a whole new light though, doesn't it?
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)but what do they have to do with each other?
Dustlawyer
(10,538 posts)donnasgirl
(656 posts)people have known for years that politicians are bought and paid for by big money, Campaign finance is one thing that is needed but term limits are also needed.
I just had this conversation with the good people of our town, and trust me ( All) people are tired of the good old boy network from both sides of the isle.
xiamiam
(4,906 posts)I don't even know how much more we had in common. I asked him how he would describe his politics and he said " I believe in the constitution" . I was at the spa, people talking in the hot tub after working out ..everyone agreed on term limits or some way to end career/ corporate revolving door politicians.
donnasgirl
(656 posts)Responses from people I meet, everywhere you go it is the same, I don't care if it's republican or democrat the answer is the same. It is high time we the people wake up and do something to change what is going on, a lot and I mean a lot of people still has not forgotten Alan Simpsons comment about Americans being greedy.
appal_jack
(3,813 posts)I admire & agree with the sentiment of wanting to quash rampant political corruption, but unfortunately term limits are not the solution. Just look at NC for an example. A brand-new Republican wave of legislators only took office in January, but they've been going all-out, full-bore to shred every democratic and progressive policy our state has ( or had). Given the resources of ALEC, the Civitas Institute, and oligopolist millionaires like Art Pope, the corrupt policies are there, ready to be fed to any willing legislative pawn new or old.
Do I have a silver bullet alternative? Not really, but I believe that fighting corruption will require a reinvigoration of grassroots/anti-corporate media for all and civics education for both the young & old.
-app
magellan
(13,257 posts)Thanks for saying this. Term limits would do little to nothing to change things if the money in politics isn't addressed. We'd just have a faster turnover of corrupt politicians.
Draining the swamp of corporate $$ has to be the first step if we're to achieve anything else.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)You get some machine politicians who work for the maximum number of years in the legislature or the city council or some elected position and then find themselves middle-aged and unemployed when their term limit is up.
They start looking for the next political position that will pay them a living. You get people in jobs they don't have their hearts in and never really wanted. And people who know what they are doing in, say, the legislature, and have just gotten to the point that they have the seniority to understand the issues and work well for their constituents are termed out and have to leave. The constituents then have to start over with a new representative who has to learn the job from scratch.
And in the final years and months in office, the elected official is actually running for or looking for his next job. The term limit often appears right when the official is about to educate his kids, send them to college, etc.
Term limits have the advantage of bringing fresh ideas to a legislature or other elected position. But they give real meaning to the word "hack" in "party hack." You get a lot of tired and sour, used and bitter, people in office.
Politicians and teachers -- you don't want too much turnover any more than you want too little. It causes cynicism and causes leaders to think too much about getting their next job.
And also like teaching, very few people can just walk off the street and get elected. Politics is a profession. Young people start out working for experienced politicians. Political leaders nowadays train to run for office. They get to understand how to organize a campaign, how to get elected, what the issues are, the constituents and other politicians in their area.
Term limits don't really bring in fresh faces. Now campaign finance reform would, but it is probably pretty unconstitutional. Publicly funded campaigns would, but there are also problems with that because you probably can't limit money purportedly spent on issues or campaigns -- not if you want to protect free speech, etc.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)Now, if we were to specifically define exactly what lobbyists were allowed to do and institute severe penalties for any actions outside those defined activities, maybe term limits would be effective.
Dustlawyer
(10,538 posts)It has risen to epic proportions these last ten years. They are better organized than they used to be. The pendulum has been swinging very high now that they know they won't be prosecuted. I do what I can to raise awareness that serious campaign finance reforms, including publicly funded elections. if you thought about it, would be a direct threat to take back a lot of control, and as we saw in OWS, they made a payment to the NYCPD pension and scared a lot of people from protesting. Now they are more prepared, they gave the cops a lot of new toys. This thing is sliding in the shitter and I worry for myself, but mainly my kids and grand kids.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)On 23 May 2012, United States Senator Ron Wyden introduced S. 3225, proposed legislation that would require the Office of the United States Trade Representative to disclose its TPP documents to all members of Congress. Wyden said the bill clarifies the intent of the 2002 legislation which was supposed to increase Congressional access to information about USTR activity, but which, according to Wyden, is being incorrectly interpreted by the USTR as justification to excessively limit such access.
Wyden asserted:
The majority of Congress is being kept in the dark as to the substance of the TPP negotiations, while representatives of U.S. corporationslike Halliburton, Chevron, PHRMA, Comcast, and the Motion Picture Association of Americaare being consulted and made privy to details of the agreement. More than two months after receiving the proper security credentials, my staff is still barred from viewing the details of the proposals that USTR is advancing. We hear that the process by which TPP is being negotiated has been a model of transparency. I disagree with that statement.
2012 Congressional Record, Vol. 158, Page S3517 (23 May 2012)
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-trans-pacific-partnership-obamas-secret-trade-deal/5329911
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Wyden is one of the few Democrats left who has not been bought off.
To think that HE cannot see these documents, a member of Congress who represents the people, should scare people as to where this country is going.
I trust him and he needs our support. Throughout the Bush years he was often a lone voice speaking out against all the policies that Bush was pushing through, often with the support of Democrat. I thought that he could rest once we elected Democrats, I bet he did also.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Out of public view the Obama administration is negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement, a US-led free trade deal with several Pacific Rim countries. Six hundred US corporate advisers have had input, but so far the text hasnt been shared with the public or media.
The level of secrecy is unprecedented. During discussions paramilitary teams guard the premises, helicopters loom overhead, and theres a near-total media blackout on the subject. US Senator Ron Wyden, who chairs the congressional committee with jurisdiction over TPP agreement, was denied access to the negotiation texts.
In a floor statement to Congress Wyden said, The majority of Congress is being kept in the dark as to the substance of the TPP negotiations, while representatives of US corporations like Halliburton, Chevron, Comcast and the Motion Picture Association of America are being consulted and made privy to details of the agreement.
The deal would give multinational corporations unprecedented rights to demand taxpayer compensation for policies they think will undermine their expected future profits straight from the treasuries of participating nations. It would push Big Pharmas agenda in the developing world longer monopoly controls on drugs, drastically limiting access to affordable generic meds that people need. The TPP would undermine food safety by limiting labeling and forcing countries like the US to import food that fails to meet its national safety standards, and ban Buy America or Buy Local preferences.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-trans-pacific-partnership-obamas-secret-trade-deal/5329911
Octafish
(55,745 posts)We're all Republicans, now. Amiright or amiright?
frylock
(34,825 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)would clearly mark you as a racist troll.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Last edited Thu Jun 20, 2013, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)
The proposed legislation on intellectual property will have enormous impacts, including Internet termination for households, businesses, and organizations as an accepted penalty for copyright infringement. Nations who sign on to the deal would essentially submit themselves to oppressive IP restrictions designed by Hollywood, severely limiting their ability to digitally exchange information on sites like YouTube, where streaming videos are considered copyrightable.
Broader copyright and intellectual property rights demands by the US would lock up the Internet, stifle research and increase education costs, by extending existing generous copyright from 70 years to 120 years, and even making it a criminal offense to temporarily store files on a computer without authorization. The US, a net exporter of digital information, would be the only party to benefit from this, said Patricia Ranald, convener of the Australian Fair Trade and Investment Network.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-trans-pacific-partnership-obamas-secret-trade-deal/5329911
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Imagine what you can do with critics?
Nah, this could never happen in the formerly free United States.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)United Corporations of America! We're Number One (percent,that is.)
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Priorities, people, priorities!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)OWS = terrorists
Wall Street = boss
SidDithers
(44,333 posts)Sid
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)they have a right to the water in our aquifer, trying to force us to let them expand Poland Springs all they want, wherever they want in exchange for a few low-pay jobs.
They lost suit after suit. I think they gave up after Christ sold out Florida. Their CEO is on record as saying that water is not a human right and should be sold for corporate profit.
This so-called trade agreement is truly frightening. It is such a total and complete sellout. There would be nothing left.
Hopefully there will be at least one -- it will only take one -- among those 1% elites who is not a sociopath and who will leak what is being hidden from us.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)all water will be privatized. He is in Switzerland.
Stop buying bottled water altogether. Check the water quality of the municipal or public water in your area and stop supporting the bottled water industry. They have a frightening desire to grab all the water in the world and make you work for them to just get a drink of it.
That is slavery at its worst.
If we don't have enough clean water to go around, let's do something about birth control and limit population growth. That is far wiser than rationing or charging inflated prices for water. Access to clean water should be a basic human right in this age.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I did when I lived in Mass, but only because the municipal water where I lived was very poor quality. The reports consistently showed that it violated standards.
Now I have my own well, as do most Mainers. Wells and, in the western part of the state, cisterns. There are states that actually make cisterns illegal. Fortunately we are not one of them.
We have one of the best aquifers in the world, and depend on it for our agriculture and to live.
When I moved up here 10 years ago, in part it was because I knew there would be water. At the master gardener program, the director of the local extension office told us point blank that "water will be the oil of the 1st century." There will be wars over water.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)wrote a letter to Froman reminding him that we live in a Democracy and if we want to sustain our Democracy then we need transparency. What's absolutely pathetic is that the letter had to be written in the first place.
H2O Man
(78,864 posts)is still the truth. Just ugly.
Recommended. Thanks for posting this.
xiamiam
(4,906 posts)octoberlib
(14,971 posts)So what's in the TPP investment chapter? As far as I can tell, nothing that isn't already in NAFTA, other U.S. free trade agreements, or a U.S. bilateral investment treaty. The problem is, that's bad enough. Under NAFTA, for example, Metalclad won a dispute against Mexico over a local government's refusal to grant it a permit to open a hazardous waste facility, and was awarded $16.7 million. Ethyl Corporation successfully challenged a Canadian ban on the import of gasoline additive MMT, leading Canada to withdraw the ban and pay the company $13 million in compensation. To have unelected bodies that (in the words of Citizens Trade Campaign) "would not meet standards of transparency, consistency or due process common to TPP countries domestic legal systems" overturning democratically adopted laws or regulations is profoundly undemocratic.
http://www.middleclasspoliticaleconomist.com/2013/04/trans-pacific-partnership-bad-for.html
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)development and part and parcel of the "free" trade agreements.
Obama complied with NAFTA and allowed Mexican trucks and truckdrivers on our roads.
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/life/obama-makes-deal-let-mexican-trucks-us-highways
I don't know what has happened in that program over the couple of years since he did that, but isn't our trade deficit big enough already?
WASHINGTON (AP) The U.S. trade deficit widened in April, as demand for foreign cars, cell phones and other imported goods outpaced growth in U.S. exports.
The Commerce Department said Tuesday that the trade gap rose 8.5% in April from March to $40.3 billion.
Exports increased 1.2% to $187.4 billion, the second-highest level on record. Companies sold more telecommunications equipment, industrial machinery and airplane parts, while U.S.-made autos and auto parts also rose to an all-time high of $12.8 billion.
But imports grew an even faster 2.4% to $227.7 billion. Sales of foreign cars increased to $25.5 billion. Americans also bought more consumer goods, led by big gain in foreign-made cell phones.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/06/04/us-trade-deficit-up/2387697/
The trade agreements are a big cover-up for inflation. The reality is that wages have at best stagnated and probably declined since 1973 or so. We can't on our wages pay ourselves to work for what we need in order to maintain our traditional living standard.
If we could only buy our own, American-made goods, we would be screaming about inflation. And there would be a huge fight over whether wages should go up so that working people could maintain a decent living standard or whether profits (those that go to the 1% as well as to pension funds and the investment "industry"
.
Here is a way-over-simplified explanation, but it gives the basic idea and is the best I can do at the moment:
Remember the inflation during the Carter and Reagan era. It was caused because the prices of raw materials, especially oil, went sky-high in 1973-74
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis
and again in 1979.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_energy_crisis
And of course other raw materials have also become more expensive over time.
After WWII, American industry was developed and intact. Our factories were up and running. European countries had lost a lot of production capacity during the war. They needed time to rebuild. Once their industrial capacity came back on board, fully on board, our labor was not as valuable as it was in the post-war years. There were other contributing factors like paying for the Viet Nam War, one of our worst mistakes ever.
We had inflation. In fact, the inflation caused a lot of people people to criticize Carter and vote for Reagan.
Despite a sluggish economy, inflation reached as high as 14.8%, and interest rates reached as high as 18% during the period 1977-1981. By 1985-1990, this contributed to the failure of Savings and Loan associations which had many bad loans, especially in real estate.
Of course, Carter had inherited the general inflationary trend from the Nixon and Ford adminstrations, which saw the beginnings of double-digit levels. President Ford had instituted the generally-ineffective program called WIN (Whip Inflation Now) in October, 1974. However, by November of 1976 the rate had subsided to 4.9% and was 5.2% when Carter took office. Continuous rises brought it to 14.8% in March, 1980, and 11.8% when Carter left office. Since 1982, general inflation has been suppressed below 6.5% and at times has been much lower.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_was_the_inflation_rate_under_Jimmy_Carter
So when Reagan came in, he faced both the high prices in an inflated economy and a recession. What did he do? He started trying to persuade Congress to go for free trade.
I distinctly remember a 1985 C-Span broadcast in which two senators were discussing free trade. One, who rejected the idea, said that if we adopted free trade, our economy would turn into just one American selling another American a hamburger. Guess what?
That's just about where we are.
But the low labor costs in foreign countries allow Americans to spend our worthless dollars and still get a decent lifestyle just barely.
This is not going to last. Sooner or later, we will have to pay the piper. The problem with our economy is not the government deficit. It is our trade deficit. It is the fact that American management and the major shareholders in companies make huge amounts of money from free trade, and if they had to pay Americans living wages to make America products, they would lose money.
So we are trapped into looking for ever cheaper labor markets to feed the fat stomachs of the multinationals.
And the real problem is that we have inflation and can't deal with it while sustaining the huge disparity in wealth in our country.
Sorry for the absolutely garbled explanation. Maybe someone else can explain this better.
But, basically, we import so much more than we export because our labor costs are high, and we would notice terrible inflation if we didn't import so much. Sooner or later our money will burst because our trade deficit is too great.
We need to bring about more paycheck equality at home. We don't have to revert to socialism, but we do need to have strong unions and a stronger manufacturing sector along with a weaker financial sector. We are like the person who develops a brilliant mind in a weak body. That person can survive -- but only with a lot of help from other people.
And so our country is overly dependent on the cheap labor and imports from other countries. This will not end well.
The last thing we need is another trade agreement. Instead we need to examine the wealth disparity in our country and the stranglehold that the multinationals have on us. We also need to learn to make better use of raw materials and to protect our environment. Let's take care of ourselves and our country. That's the best thing we can do for the world.
Sorry again for my inability to explain this as well as I would like to.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,570 posts)T
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Think TPP is awesome? Thank an investor.
newmember
(805 posts)Babel_17
(5,400 posts)Hopefully this was just a foul-up by a low level US representative.
Either way, it's up to the real journalists and serious minded elected representatives to get answers. They have our support in that.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)and they're pretty generous with the campaign donations and graft. Whats a politician to do for personal gain if he can't suck up to these bad boys?
Buns_of_Fire
(19,056 posts)$500 million to GigantoCorp because their laws prohibit allowing The Almighty Company to use their entire country as a private hazardous waste dump? Who's going to enforce this monstrosity? And how?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)protect the waste vehicles while they dump their trash on a country that can't fight back.
Buns_of_Fire
(19,056 posts)I wouldn't see them getting involved in a private agreement between consenting nations.
So, I imagine the US would wind up being the enforcer.
But would we be willing to go to war to protect the profits of the 1%?
Damn. I probably just answered my own question, didn't I?
fasttense
(17,301 posts)overthrow any controls put on them. Democracy can NOT survive under capitalism. It will be trampled in the name of profits. We have to get rid of Capitalism, if we want democracy.
If this corporate take-over Pee-Pee were to get voted in in Congress, right now, do you think it would pass? I think it would. Just like the telecom immunity act and the bailout for banksters passed despite shutting down DC websites and phone circuits due to overload by Americans telling their representatives in DC to vote NO. And do you know who voted for both of those? Senator Obama.
This T-Pee-Pee may get temporarily blocked but the corporate elite will continue to push it and eventually it will pass if we don't throw off the yoke of capitalism.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)For calling out the president on his lies...I MEAN...their claim that he lied
Catherina
(35,568 posts)When the discontent is so severe that his defenders resort to spurious charges of racism and slander, you know things are bad.
MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)"There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and A T & T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today."
Initech
(108,022 posts)It must be stopped at all costs.
forestpath
(3,102 posts)conclusion of Obama's pro-corporation/bank anti-middle class presidency.
Somebody (sorry, can't remember who) posted here once that Obama wasn't a president, he was a CEO. Truer words were never spoken.
If only he had gone into business instead of politics.
