Moms: Please Don't Do This.

[MineralMan]

Flying back from California, after my 50th HS reunion and some time spent with my 88 year old parents, whose health is failing, my wife and I were sitting in the gate area at LAX waiting for our flight.

A woman and her daughter, who could not have been older than 12, came up and sat across from us. The girl was wearing tight shorts, cut above her lower buttocks, and a low-cut tank top that showed cleavage. Her face was that of a 12 year old. We moved to other seats, on my prompting.

For the life of me, I cannot understand a mom being OK with that dress for a pubescent girl. I truly can't. What could she be thinking?

[leftynyc]

1. I've also got a story like that

Last week was my niece's senior high school prom and I was invited to the pre-prom party where everyone gets together to take photos and have something to eat before all the drinking they're going to do. One girl, who was a junior, was wearing a dress that looked remarkably like the dress Cher wore that year she won the Oscar - black lace that only covered enough so she could be shown on TV. This 16 year old girl was being followed around by her mother who looked to be taking great pride in the fact that her daughter was being stared at. Man, I'm no prude but it was disgusting.

[Buzz Clik]

2. +1

[MineralMan]

4. Sixteen-year-olds going to the prom

are a different situation, I think. I think that type of dress is a mistake, but the whole prom thing is designed to make kids feel older and more sophisticated for an evening. It's a different environment than the gate area of an airport, and a different age group. If I were a parent, I'd object to a daughter wearing that outfit to the prom, but can understand a 16-year-old's desire to look like an adult. 12-year-olds, not so much.

[hedgehog]

8. OTOH - while it's reasonable to wear comfortable clothing on a plane, most

adults opt for something suitable for corporate casual Friday as the least formal option.

[MineralMan]

13. I wear casual clothing all the time. About the most I ever

up-dress is a pair of slacks and a blazer, worn over a shirt without a tie. When traveling, though, I wear clothing that makes it easy for me to get through security. It includes a casual jacket with two big pockets I can stash all my junk in before the security line. I have a regular routine for the process.

I'm an old geezer. I can get away with wearing unfashionable clothing.

[leftynyc]

16. All the other girls (the seniors)

were in beautiful gowns (including my niece who looked stunning) - there were some low backs, many snug fitting but this one girl was dressed trampy (I sincerely cannot think of another word for it). It was that her mother was running behind her basking in the attention that was even more nauseating. The girls all looked older than they were - with the hair and makeup all done up - looking older and looking for sleazy attention are quite different in my mind. That 12 year old will probably be wearing something similar to her prom.

[Warpy]

155. Sadly, some moms really can't tell the difference

between positive and negative attention and it's going to be tough for her daughter to unlearn her mother's cluelessness.

[Drahthaardogs]

238. There was a girl like that at my son's prom this year (not his date). A "barely there" dress.

She got lots of attention. That is what it is all about isn't it?

[Baitball Blogger]

159. Some of those lacy outfits actually have a nude colored lining.

[leftynyc]

164. Yes, we looked for that

We easily saw the crack in her ass. Trust me, this dress would have been inappropriate on an adult.

[hedgehog]

3. Be prepared for a flaming - odds are that someone will accuse you of being a pedophile!

But for me, while no woman should be subject to harassment or worse because of the manner in which she is dressed, that doesn't change the fact that clothes bear a message. President Obama does not wear a swimming suit in the Oval Office! Even if it is the current fashion, it sends a very poor message for women of any age to to dress like a hooker!

[MineralMan]

5. I can't imagine why. My wife and I moved to different seats.

I'm not attracted to 12-year-old girls, frankly. Never was. I was simply uncomfortable with the scene being made.

[hedgehog]

7. But you noticed that a twelve year old who was dressed provocatively,

was a twelve year old dressed provocatively. You noticed! I want to be absolutely clear that I agree with you, but I've seen this response to similar posts.

[MineralMan]

10. I notice everyone around me in public places.

It's part of being aware of my surroundings.

[hedgehog]

14. I'm with Buzz Click below -

I agree with you completely!

[RILib]

203. who would not notice?

[uppityperson]

31. What "scene" was being made?

[morningfog]

39. Why were you uncomfortable? So much so that you had to move?

I don't understand.

[MineralMan]

42. I found it annoying. So I moved.

There are many seats at the gate. Why should I be annoyed, when I can move to another seat.

Why did you think I moved?

[morningfog]

50. I don't know why you moved, that's why I asked. You said because you were uncomfortable.

I still don't understand how a girl dresses made you uncomfortable or annoyed, whichever it was.

[MineralMan]

56. Being annoyed makes me uncomfortable.

There was a simple solution. We moved. My wife was also annoyed.

[morningfog]

62. I guess I just don't get it. I've never looked at how a little girl

is dress and been annoyed. It's her body, I have no reason to be annoyed or anything else with respect to her clothes.

[MineralMan]

63. OK. We react differently, then.

[morningfog]

64. Correction: you react. I don't.

Which is what I fail to understand. How does a little girl's outfit annoy you to such discomfort you have to change seats?

[MineralMan]

65. I object to the sexualization of children.

That annoys me. Will that do?

[morningfog]

68. Ah, I see now. You sexualized based how they

Last edited Thu Jun 20, 2013, 05:01 PM - Edit history (1)

chose to dress. This has nothing to do with the mom or how the girl wants to dress. She should not make her decisions based on what some old man, a stranger, sees as sexual.

[bettyellen]

77. no - clothing actually can sexualize a person by emphazing body parts- and the abundance of skin

sends signals that get reactions. I know I am treated very differently when I dress more covered up, or boyishly than when I am wearing more "feminine" or revealing clothes. It's one thing to say it's not fair- but it's complete bullshit to say it doesn't happen.
Clothing advertises how we'd like others to view us- and sometimes those clothes are provocative. It is what it is.

[morningfog]

79. Are you 12?

I don't disagree if we are talking about adults.

[bettyellen]

85. No, but I have worked with kids as models in NYC, and it did bother me the way some kids were

treated as a commodity- and very sexualized at a young age. Full makeup, padded bras, and encoraged to flirt with grownups at 10 yrs old.
I had one idiot parent who kept sending boyfriends and drunk teenagers to escort her child to fittings. The kid was allowed to attend a party with Puff Daddy and j Lo without an adult escort. She wore what would normally be seen in music videos, with false eyelashes and full heavy makeup all the time. Her family was not supervising her, but instead exploiting her, so this poor kid was kind of pushing the limits with her families consent. She made most people around her really uncomfortable- concerned that she might be treated more as a consenting adult than the child she was because those were the "signals" her clothes and behaviour gave off.
The same things that are okay at the beach or a video shoot or circus performance- don;t feel okay in the office or subeways of NYC. They just do not. Context.

[Aerows]

186. +1 Context matters. n/t

[bettyellen]

231. the truth is, fucked up people will (correctly) see these girls as having less supervision or

healthy boundaries, too. People who want to exploit others are looking for exactly those signals- what looks like lax or absent parenting. I grew up with a lot of latch key friends who wanted to get old fast. They did. And that ended up meaning a world of shit for them (16 and pregnant, 16 and pregnant and a crack head) because they never learned to do much with themselves but get attention from guys. Some moms believe that's the most important thing in the world, and their daughters learn to compete for that attention before they even understand what it can mean.

[Ilsa]

90. The problem is that there are strangers

who might not distinguish between whether that 12 year old girl is really 12 or 15 or 18. As a parent, I know I wouldn't want my kids to "stick out" for unwarranted attention. This is a preference and value I hold.

If I see kids under-dressed, I might also wonder if the parents are paying attention to other behaviors, too. Does the child get their way all the time? Is this someone I want to be next to on a 2 hour flight?

The fact is, there are different sets of values and mores at work here. For example, an expectation that public transportation is a more formal event than riding in Daddy's pickup. Being dressed for travel might result in more formal behavior than when a child is dressed for playing in a sandbox. Hence, better social behavior for the duration of the flight. I probably wouldn't want to be near them either, but it's not just about "sexualization," but being around someone with different values.

[morningfog]

95. I whole heartedly disagree.

How a girl dresses is no indication of their behavior. Nor does it reflect how the child has been raised to act in public places. A lot of moms out there, and I think this goes to the issue I have with the OP, choose not to manage or place such a great emphasis on the child expressing themselves. Those same moms can simultaneously teach respect, confidence and love.

I don't care what someone chooses to wear. A 12 year old is old enough to make that choice as well. If the OP hadn't been so blinded by annoyance and discomfort, they could have looked around and seen teens, 20 year olds, 30 year old and older wearing the same or similar clothing. Yet, the OP choose instead to admonish moms.

[redqueen]

97. +1

Justice someone based on clothing... Isn't that prejudice?

Also seems to smack of elitism.

And some of the worst behaved kids I know are from conservative households and dress very "properly"... unfortunately for their well-intentioned parents, their strictness backfired.

[Ilsa]

99. Here:

How a girl dresses is no indication of their behavior. Nor does it reflect how the child has been raised to act in public places.

I disagree completely. There will always be exceptions when it comes to behavior, but I think there are indicators on what can be expected based on what might be a laissez faire parenting approach. This is a flight; not something a destitute person is probably on. this was a choice they both made.

Maybe Mineralman couldn't quite put his finger on what made him uncomfortable. But I know exactly why it would bother me, and I would, if I could choose, be seated away from this pair for a flight.

[elehhhhna]

124. I pick my battles

my 17 y/o is built like a Kardashian and shows too much skin imo. But she's been sober for 2.5 years, sponsors other teenagers in a 12 step group, gets straight A's and is the only virgin in her (small private sober) high school.


I'm in my 50's and don't care to see kids underdressed. But I've learned to pick my battles. Had to.

(lol and my 19 year old gal dresses like a librarian)

[Ilsa]

130. Very true. We can only hope that

Worst consequences we've let them pick aren't permanent.

But there will be times when they are judged by strangers based on their appearance. It's just reality.

[elehhhhna]

133. Yep. And that's why the revealing clothes bother me.

[hedgehog]

165. So there is no difference between a 12 year old and someone in their

20's or 30's?

[morningfog]

174. In what they choose to wear?

Not really. They all wear the same things at the beach.

[hedgehog]

176. So -if clothes don't matter - how acceptable is this

[morningfog]

180. I think you know the difference.

A 12 year old can choose what they want to wear, if they dressed like your example, who cares. A 5 year old is obviously dressed like that by a parent. Again, the clothes aren't all that important. However, the reason that child is dressed in those clothes is an issue. The issue is the entry into pageants at such an age and the problems that arise from that.

[Ed Suspicious]

205. Not a parent? Because if you were your stand would be fantasy land. You are goddamn right I notice

when my daughters are pushing the envelope. I don't allow cleavage and I don't allow ass-cheeks to show. Am I perving on my daughters? Fuck you if you think it. I'm helping my daughters learn how to dress appropriately, modestly. I always tell her if she's gonna insist on wearing cuttoffs that creep up the ass-cheek, she's running the risk of me picking her up from school in my speedo or my own custom pair of daisy dukes. Would it be appropriate for me to wear the daisy dukes? She doesn't think so.

[morningfog]

207. I am a parent.

You think modest dress is important, I have no issue with that. My issue is with others, especially old men, telling moms how to raise their children after their own insecurities caused a reaction. My other issue is with those who judge a little girl and their mom due to the girl's choice in clothes. So, kindly swallow the fuck you.

[Jenoch]

219. So if a 12 year old girl

decides to wear a bikini and flip flops on an airliner you're ok with that?

[morningfog]

223. Why shouldn't I be? Yours is a ridiculous hypothetical, but

I really don't care what anyone chooses to where.

[Jenoch]

225. Swim wear worn by anyone

is wildly inappropriate to wear on a flight.

At 12 years old, a child of either gender, if choosing to wear something innappropriate, should obey their parents and change into something that IS appropriate if given those instructions by a parent. Parents need to be parents and kids need to be kids.

[TheMadMonk]

227. Because it is only with 12 YO's that mothers control the wardrobe.

How a girl dresses is indicative of how she (for good or ill) will be perceived by others, particularly strangers.

Ya think? Well brought up young lasses dressed in outfits fit to make Frankenfurter blush? I'll "see" you with a "Frenetic Street" and raise you a "Derwood Drive"


And you want an honest answer as to why it makes us annoyed and uncomfortable? It's simple enough. The average man of the male gender upon perception of a shapely young ankle across the aisle has a bad habit of exploring the leg(s) (from which a shapely young ankle might depend) all the way to the source.

Having ascertained that the legs do indeed go all the way to the top, the eye of the epidermal connoisseur, savors the journey across the sveldt expanse of the youthful abdomen to the abrupt, pneumatic rise of adolescent bosom, and the mind hears the first faint pealing of alarm bells.

However, the glands are in full surge and the eye reluctantly tears away from the impossibly taut skin spilling over the top of a faltering halter to the first angry red eruption of teenage angst. And you realise you have the hots for a kid.

You're angry with yourself, uncomfortable with the situation and annoyed with kid and her mother for the situation you feel they've put you in.

[bettyellen]

230. we are talking about kids, and unless you are okay with them running around naked at 12-

you yourself would be drawing some lines as to what is appropriate- in a airport - for kids that age.
To pretend that there should be no standards (even for adults) is bullshit.

[Aerows]

184. It is what it is.

Well said.

[FreeState]

84. +1 n/t

[uppityperson]

149. + a brazillion

[RetroLounge]

249. Are you fucking kidding me?

I knew someone would start this bullshit.

12 year old girls dressed like little hookers are not okay.

pretty simple.

RL

[kestrel91316]

126. Does harrassing MineralMan about this make you feel special? Sure seems like it.

[cliffordu]

122. Your punctuation mistakes and misspellings

out you.

Missed you around the campfire lately.

[WinkyDink]

202. Some men might think a Lolita is not whom they want to sit near.

[redqueen]

206. "A Lolita"?!

Fuck

Ing

Hell

[Floyd_Gondolli]

45. It only took 36 posts

For some moonbat to do just that.

"You noticed so you must be a pedophile, obviously."

Sigh.

[Buzz Clik]

6. Before this thread is swooped down upon by an angry mob...

My younger son, now 26, reported to me that he loved going to the local mall and watching girls in the 12 to 14 year-old-range paraded about by their mothers. Let's just say these girls were "exploring their sexuality" as expressed by scant clothing, with mommy's clear approval.

More recently on Facebook, I was a bit amazed when my 13-year-old niece and some friends posted a pic of themselves wearing only tight shorts, pouty faces, and bras. The picture was interesting, but when one of the mom's posted, "There's a sexy bunch!", I had to laugh.

[MineralMan]

9. Yes, I'm sure there are guys who enjoy seeing that.

I have a different reaction, I guess. I find it disturbing, and a reflection of our society's penchant for over-emphasizing sexuality at younger and younger ages.

[Buzz Clik]

11. You and I are on the same page.

But, I'm ducking out before this goes ugly.

May God have mercy on your soul.

[Nay]

38. As a female old fart, I have to agree with you. I'm basically an old hippie and I find the

hypersexual images being fed to pre-teens and young teens to be pretty gross.

[malokvale77]

132. As another female old fart...

and old hippie, I agree. My granddaughter manages to look beautiful and stylish without showing it all.

She will not be played with. She has a beautiful mind.

[Ilsa]

78. I agree. I moved from one city where

Tweens were dressing provocatively to another area where parents are more "hands-on" with their kids, and the difference is astounding! The other kids seemed more insecure, whereas the less provocatively dressed kids seem more secure. Probably because they know their parents have their backs, and they draw lines so kids are able to tell peers, "No, I'm not going to do that."

It should make us uncomfortable when Tweens are dressed like little hookers, etc. It doesn't mean we are sexualizing them. It means we are concerned about their inappropriate over-sexualization by their peers, parents, etc.

[HappyMe]

88. Very good point.

It seems that in some cases the kids are steering the ship and not the parents. I don't think much good can come out of that.

[redqueen]

98. re: tweens dressed like "hookers"

Or anyone dressed like "hookers", really...

It will be nice if someday we can stop seeing female humans as sex objects first and foremost ... so that a girl or woman could wear whatever kind of outfit without the clothes marking her for any kind of labeling or prejudice based on her perceived sexuality, whether her sexuality is socially sanctioned or not.

[Ilsa]

106. Yeah, well, I didn't want to spend

fifteen minutes writing something up.

Yeah, it would be nice if humanity would stop seeing girls and women as sex objects first. But fashion and mores play a big part in how we present ourselves to others and the impressions we want to make on them. I don't see that changing.

For example, If I'm out seriously shopping for something like furniture, clothing, etc. I dress up for it, not for a patio party. It's an image thing designed to get me better customer service and respect. And it works. People make judgments about others based on sensory stimuli.

[redqueen]

112. I know...

I'm not denying the reality of what you're saying... I just hope that someday it isn't so.

[snooper2]

125. Watch This

&nofeather=True

[davsand]

162. Geesh! You'd freeze your nubbins off in anything too scanty! We used to wear coats.

The BIG deal every year was to find a costume that was warm enough that your mom wouldn't make you wear your coat over it to stay warm.

I have to admit to doing that same thing with my own kid, and in large part, that is why she usually wore home made costumes every year. The costume base usually started out with either sweats or some sort of heavy garment that allowed for layers underneath. You'd be amazed at how many layers you can hide under a witch skirt or a grim reaper robe!





Laura

[TrogL]

217. The hookers around here don't "dress like hookers".

Prostitution is legal in Canada, but they need to be able to blend in, in case a bad John shows up. It can be a bit of nuisance. I've picked up a few by accident because they're hitchhiking at 2 a.m. in a bus stop looking wet and frozen. I let them stay in the truck 'til they warm up or turn them over to the social services van if it wanders by.

[RetroLounge]

250. YEah, whatever. Let me know when you live in the real world.

RL

[bettyellen]

255. I agree- it would be nice. But also we have to acknowledge that clothes can be more provocative

than nudity. While I would never say what clothes you wear makes you deserving of ill treatment, they can and will sometimes provoke attention. ANd people sometimes pick clothing for just that reason. When you see people walk around displaying a great deal of flesh where it in uncommon to, or clothes that draw attention to your sexual characteristics, a person of any age will get eyeballed by people who both hate and enjoy it.

[CrispyQ]

233. "a reflection of our society's penchant for over-emphasizing sexuality at younger and younger ages."

It is disturbing.

[hedgehog]

12. My reaction when I see this is amazement as well - why would anyone present themselves

this way and expect to be taken seriously? I had the same reaction when the 40 something department secretary showed up to work in a laced trimmed camisole. I know it's the fashion, and maybe it flies in more sophisticated cities, and she certainly had a good figure, but to my eye it looked as if she'd forgotten to wear a blouse and showed up in her underwear!

[MineralMan]

15. Adults can wear anything they damn well please,

as far as I'm concerned. Children, on the other hand, need some guidance, IMO.

[HappyMe]

19. The word 'guidance' is key here.

While it's not good to judge based on clothes, I think parents have kind of lost the ability to say NO. Now it's as if you are supposed to be the kid's friend and not their parent.

[Ilsa]

72. Absolutely. And I think that deep

down, a child needs to hear that the parent is paying attention to what they are up to and drawing a line for them. Telling them, "No!" will often relieve a kid who has been complying with peer pressure when they really just wanted to wear something less sexual.

[mimi85]

234. Adults can't wear anything they please

if their employer objects. I totally agree with you on the kids. Have you driven by a school and seen what's acceptable these days? I'm def not even close to a prude, but some things are just over the top. It's amazing that boys ever graduate!

[RetroLounge]

251. Too late, the usual suspects are already swooping.

RL

[Buzz Clik]

259. At this point, it's only bones. Even the vultures have left.

[RetroLounge]

260. Oh, there's all kinds of new posters picking at the remains

HOFer interns, I would guess.

RL

[Apophis]

17. ...

[redqueen]

18. Watch "Sexy Baby"

I appreciate the need to try to control this trend by criticizing the few moms who never grew out of the 'sexy is everything' indoctrination, but you are simply addressing symptoms, and in an ineffective manner at that. How many moms on DU do you think approve of their preteen daughters wearing Bratz style clothing?

Moms who allow young daughters to do such things have obviously internalized the message that the behavior is normal and fine. I doubt hearing that you were uncomfortable and had to change seats would serve as a persuasive argument.

[boston bean]

20. LOL. And the daddies are left out of the equation, it's very telling. nt

[redqueen]

21. Yeah... there are many fathers involved in their daughters' upbringing.

and plenty of single dads raising girls, too.

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Only custodial dads successfully tell daughters what to wear.

And even then, with only limited success.

Dads don't dress daughters like that, and they know exactly why not.

[boston bean]

41. It's like flies on poop! Isn't it?

[redqueen]

51. Yup!

[MineralMan]

27. Well, in this case, Dad was not there.

Mom was the only adult.

[Buzz Clik]

30. It's a curious fact that I have never seen a father escorting a daughter dressed like that.

I have no idea why that is so -- maybe because young teens don't want to go to the mall with dad or vice versa.

[IdaBriggs]

23. Not saying I approve of the dress, but aging girls can be a challenge --

especially if she is a "late bloomer" trying to look like the rest of her peers.

I used to look like I was 9 years old, which was a HUGE issue when I was 16 - couldn't find clothes that were "age appropriate" and had people asking if I was old enough to drive when I went through a drive thru. I like it now (my husband swears I look ten years younger than I am - smart man! ), but it was a serious pain when I was an adolescent.

Not saying that type of attire is appropriate even for "older" teens, but still a thought. Also, sometimes a mom has to pick her battles, and clothing (oddly enough) might not rank as high as "skipping school" or "no doing drugs" ....

Just saying.

[redqueen]

25. Thanks for making this point. nt

[NCTraveler]

178. Nice thoughts on the topic. Thanks for the post. nt.

[uppityperson]

24. My father told us girls when were were teens that we could no longer run around the house in

our underwear when his friends came to visit. We looked at each other blankly (were 13 and 15) then went "EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW" think of those gross old men looking at us that way. It was disgusting. I mean, Dad's friends? Those OLD guys? EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW. My faith in people, my innocence was destroyed in part by that conversation with my Dad.

Now having aged to being older than those "OLD guys" and having had child myself, I see the problem. Viewing them as titillating or a "spectacle" is the problem. It is not the kid's problem but how adults perceive them.

Question to you MM, do you have the same problem with teen boys and low crotch pants?

[redqueen]

26. And thank you, so very much, for bringing up this much deeper issue.

We focus on girls, but girls are not the problem.

[MineralMan]

28. Not as long as their junk doesn't show.

[uppityperson]

29. Since the girl you reference did not have her genitals showing, seems hypocritical

[Buzz Clik]

33. She's got a point, MineralMan. ;)

Not sure what "low crotch pants" are, but they probably exist, and I wouldn't buy them for my sons. Or mesh muscle shirts. Or allow them to wear their jeans below their butts.

[uppityperson]

35. Oooo, mesh muscle shirts, those are really something also.

[MineralMan]

44. The boys in the pants that expose their

boxer shorts just look stupid. They're not exposing anything at all, except for their lack of taste.

[mimi85]

235. That look has been "out" around here

for a few years now. Skinny pants seem to be the thing. But street so-called fashion varies in different parts of the country. I was glad to see it go. It looked ridiculous. Wait until the kids are much older and see pics of their younger days. Hopefully, they'll have a good laugh.

[Buzz Clik]

32. LOL! Great question. I cannot wait to read his response.

[upaloopa]

119. I'm reading this with interest and I think you

have the best reply.
I've seen kids dress like that a lot here in CA and most people don't make a fuss.
In the beach town of Avila there are ice cream stores and surf shops and fast food places.
Teen girls go from the beach into the stores in their bikinis and no one makes a fuss.
I think if someone did they would introduce something negative that didn't exist before. That is shaming kids when there is nothing to be ashamed of. In my opinion the ones seeing evil have the problem not the kids or their parents.
I wanted to add that this was LAX and I can understand someone from the East thinking that dress codes here should conform to dress codes there.

[southernyankeebelle]

34. I remember back when I was a teen around 15 yrs and we had to travel. I remember

going to the Airport in NYC (I think it was in the city). We stayed over night at a hotel. We were going to Germany. My dad was being transferred. Anyway my parents wouldn't have thought of dressing us in jeans or flip flops. Me and my twin sister wore a Cotton dress with a jacket to match. She wore pink and I wore blue. We had to wear nylons and yes even girdles. We had white handbags and white shoes that matched. No make up. My dad wouldn't allow us to wear makeup. Back then that was how you traveled. Sometimes it would be nice if parents made their kids dress properly. You can wear a nice sun dress that isn't short or low cut and a pair of nice sandles and still be comfortable.

Why did you only tell mom not to do this. Where is daddy's responsibility. My father was the one who said what we could wear. But I and my sisters were never the type to wear lowcut outfits or short dresses.

[MineralMan]

49. Mom was the only one there, not dad.

Why that is, I can't say. Dads, for the most part, aren't too keen on clothing like that, I think.

[southernyankeebelle]

54. Well my dad would have really made a point. Before we left the house am sure he

would of taken a pair of scissors to that outfit. But of course I wouldn't buy or wear something like that as a 15 yr old. I think it is important dad's tell their daughters how they should dress in the right cloths. Not with everything but I would want to know my dad's opinion. I don't want to look like a slut. I know my dad would say only sluts dress that way. That would do it for me, LOL.

[MineralMan]

57. I believe we grew up in a different time.

Maybe we're just old and set in our ways. I don't know.

[southernyankeebelle]

60. I think your right

[HappyMe]

66. My dad never would have let me wears shorts with my ass hanging out.

Neither would my stepmom.

I don't think the even made shorts like that when I was 12.

[southernyankeebelle]

134. Well I was about 15 in 1963. Back then we didn't even wear pants suits in school.

Girls weren't even allowed to wear shorts or pants or low cut shirts to school. Gosh I remember having to beg my father to allow us to wear those black flat shoes. We had to wear those saddle shoes (remember black and white). Here I was going on 16 and going to public school. Gosh my sisters and I had to really beg him and he finally said ok. Heck we weren't even allowed to shave our legs. But one day I went ahead and he didn't notice and so my other sisters did the same. If he knew he didn't say. We had to drag him into the 20th century (LOL). But oh how I loved my dad. He was always there for us. Great father even if he were old fashioned. I wouldn't trade him. Funny thing is my son never met my father but in many ways my son is like my father. Go figure.

[MineralMan]

195. I was in California, in a small farming town.

1959-63. Girls were not allowed to wear any sort of pants at school. Skirts and dresses only. It ticked the girls off. That rule was dropped a couple of years after I graduated, according to my brother, who is 5 years younger than I am.

The worst thing of all for my sister, who is 1 year younger than I am, was having to wear the gym suits all the girls had to wear in PE class. "Monkey Suits," they called them. They were one-piece things, ill-fitting, and with knee-length legs. They made everyone look frumpy, and my sister was most definitely not amused by them.

[leftstreet]

36. Why did you move to other seats?

Maybe the answer to your grave confusion and concern about the behavior of 'moms' is that moms don't necessarily see the buttocks of 12 yr old children and think about sex.

FFS

[morningfog]

40. That's my question too.

Girls dress how they want. What business is it of anyone else?

[kestrel91316]

128. Because society still has a FEW standards. Showing one's buttocks is not much different from showing

all of one's breasts except for the nipple. And the only reason for doing so is to attract the attention of prospective sex partners.

Time for people to stop playing semantic games with this. It is what it is, and that mother has absolutely failed in her parental responsibilities.

[upaloopa]

138. I know women and girls who go nude and they

have no intention of attracting sex partners.
I'm pretty sure that girl was not attracting sex partners. That definition arose in your mind not hers.
Your are very close to the idea that women who get raped asked for it by the way they dress.

[mimi85]

241. Huh? What women walk around nude

unless they're at a nude beach? The OP never said the girl was trying to attract partners. This has become like the old game that I think was called telephone. Not sure about that. However it involved whispering a statement to one person and see how it comes out after going through several other people.

[morningfog]

141. Lol. So resolute, and based solely on a stupid

story of one man's insecurities. You don't even know if that was her mom or how old she was or how much of her buttocks were showing. Yet, you join the OP in admonishing moms. Hilarious.

And to answer your other post directed at me, the OP asked for it. His self importance and condescending"advice" reeks of flame bait sexism.

[uppityperson]

146. Beware, sexual attraction photos below, if you are a "prospective sex partner" beware.

[penultimate]

158. To be fair, most people would move seats if they were subjected to first four of those

butt cracks. The last two are just silly though.

[uppityperson]

160. "the only reason for doing so is to attract the attention of prospective sex partners. "

[penultimate]

167. Yeah, I got that part after I posted my comment...

[MineralMan]

46. Because I was annoyed.

Lots of available seats. Why should I be annoyed? I simply moved.

[leftstreet]

86. You could have made your OP more generic

Perhaps,

"PARENTS: please see that your offspringz wear age and venue appropriate clothing!"


You could have gone on for several paragraphs this way without indicting 'moms' or passively sexualizing female children.



Of course, you wouldn't have gotten much attention...

[MineralMan]

89. There are always multiple ways to write anything.

[pipi_k]

82. Maybe I'm too

old fashioned, having grown up in the 50s and early 60s, but I don't want to see anyone's buttocks hanging out unless it's at the beach.

IOW, people dress according to the situation or the activity.

Would this mother...or any parent, actually... consider sending her kid to church dressed that way?

That old cliche about "flaunting it if you got it" is, again IMO, stupid. Shows a lack of respect for oneself. And others.

Not only that, but I feel that any mom who runs around showing off her daughter's "charms" in that manner is actually presenting the kid as a sexual object. Inviting sexual interest...or maybe daring men of all ages NOT to look. It's like some damned if you do, damned if you don't game they play. If a man doesn't look, it's because he's a "secret pedophile" who's afraid to give himself away. If he does look, it's because he's an out-and-out pedophile pervert pig.

That's one thing I never understood about women. How some of us dress to invite attention, then when we get it, we scream "PIG!!!" at the men who noticed. We set them up...bait them...then slam the cudgel down on their heads when they take the bait.

WTF...

[bettyellen]

92. reminds me off a gal I know who had a tatto of a tiger jumping down her cleavage to grab her breast.

LOL. you could only see the ass end of the tiger- but she always showed it off. if anyone admitted they noticed it, she flew into a RAGE. but she always loved a good excuse to rage. You learn to back away quietly. LOL.

[pipi_k]

103. I guess this is why

I've always had trouble making female friends.

Because even though I'm a female myself, I've never understood the bullshit little head games.

How about the "Does this (article of clothing) make me look fat?" game...I ask Mr Pipi the question because I want the truth, and I know I'll get it. Many other women don't really want the truth. If their partner tells them the dress or whatever makes them look fat, they get all pissy.

Or the "Don't date my ex" game. WTF... I had a friend who not only dated my ex husband (after his divorce from me and his second wife), she lived with him and had a daughter with him. Did I care? No.

There are all sorts of stupid little games young (and older) women play that I've never really understood

[redqueen]

93. No, no matter how girls or women dress, it is not an excuse for harassment. nt

[pipi_k]

111. Nobody should

be harassed, but this isn't about harassment.

It's about men being visual creatures, and staring at...or being uncomfortable by... young girls allowed to dress like streetwalkers by their mothers.

And yes...I specify "mothers" here. Because in all my 60 years on this planet, I have NEVER seen a father allow his daughter to dress like a junior tramp. Let alone display her and be all proud of it.

While I have seen mothers who have. They clearly have...issues...to put it kindly.

[redqueen]

117. You didn't specify what kind of attention you meant,

and based on your description of it being something that they would be cudgeled for, I inferred it was something more intrusive than a glance.

IMO staring is harassment. It's rude, and people don't do it to people who are not clearly welcoming the attention, if they perceive the person they're treating rudely as having a higher status than themselves.

I'm 43 and I have known many men to be fine with their daughters dressing as sexy as they want. These are usually men with lower levels of education, as I'm sure many of the mothers who allow it are as well. If being uneducated is one of the "issues" you refer to, then I suppose you have a point.

If, however, you are referring to women who have been raped at a young age, molested as a child, or otherwise abused, then I find the use of "issues" to refer to their hardships as being offensive and a tactic that serves to stigmatize people unfairly.

[uppityperson]

151. This IS about harassment. About men who stare at females. Men who harass females to wear what THEY

deem "appropriate" to not titillate themselves. It is about harassment. WTF do you think staring at, posting about, trying to control is?

[mimi85]

237. Men staring at females

isn't against the law. And it's been going on, no doubt, for thousands of years.

[uppityperson]

261. Whoosh. sigh. eom.

[kestrel91316]

129. And the OP harrassed no one. He just quietly moved away.

[redqueen]

135. The post you're replying to was not a response to the OP.

It was in response to this:

That's one thing I never understood about women. How some of us dress to invite attention, then when we get it, we scream "PIG!!!" at the men who noticed. We set them up...bait them...then slam the cudgel down on their heads when they take the bait

Most women do not dress "to invite attention". And even those who do are not asking to be stared at or worse. (And to avoid the usual nonsense, yes some people do, but unless you know the person is inviting attention from strangers - e.g. performers, cosplayers, etc. - then it is wrong to assume they are.)

[pipi_k]

175. Hey

I'm old. I can't remember what post I'm replying to, but whatever...

Even if someone isn't dressing to invite attention, that person would have to be incredibly stupid not to consider the fact that his or her appearance likely WILL attract attention.

Not all of it positive.

People will stare. It can't be helped.

It really pisses me off when someone presents him or herself in a certain way and I never know how to react. Do I totally ignore the person and make it obvious to the person that I'm studiously trying to ignore him because he looks hideous/strange/stupid/whatever?

Do I glance and then look away? Again, I get the feeling that it might look like I'm not able to handle the sight of someone, and have to quickly look away to avoid embarrassing the person.

If I look, how long is the "allowed" time for looking before appearing rude?

I don't like embarrassing others, and I try real hard not to, so when someone blatantly flouts society, I take it as a virtual middle finger to all of us.

[Ilsa]

83. Buttocks hanging out? I see germs! (well, not literally.)

Really, I think about urine and smeared feces, and those buttocks making contact with the plastic chairs we're sitting on. I think about hepatitis A.

[Buzz Clik]

105. Funny that you were the first person to introduce sex into this thread. Why is that?

Do you have a problem? Something sordid and dangerous?

[leftstreet]

136. LOL nice try

The OP sexualized a child, apparently because said child's clothing didn't adequately cover teh naughty bitz or something

[Buzz Clik]

137. No. You're projecting.

Nice deflection.

[mimi85]

239. No he didn't. n/t

[RetroLounge]

252. So then why not let her go topless too?

I mean, since no one should look, and all.



RL

[Raven]

37. "Where do you think you're going in that outfit, young lady?"

That's what my mother used to say to me. Of course, that was back in the day when I would try to get out of the house in a black turtleneck, a black tight skirt and white lipstick and eye makeup.

[HappyMe]

47. Yes, my dad and my stepmom.

I had a job when I was in high school, so I bought my clothes. I pretty much knew what would fly and what wouldn't. A couple of times I pushed the envelope too far. " L--- M---, where do you think you are going in that?" You knew you were sunk if you got the first and middle name treatment. I went back to my room, and changed my clothes. No screaming, no drama.

[msanthrope]

43. "Baby Slut-wear" is the generic name I gave to certain items of clothing

Last edited Thu Jun 20, 2013, 05:23 PM - Edit history (1)

that were gifted to my daughter periodically. The maribou- fringed half-shirt. the shorts that say "juicy" across her butt. the bikini that looks like dental floss up her crotch.....

my daughter at age 10 is taking sewing lessons so she can make fashionable clothing she likes, as opposed to what is she is told to wear by corporations.

[redqueen]

55. Ah, so it is the clothing a girl/woman wears which mark her as a "slut", is it?

Thanks for the lesson.

[msanthrope]

102. Would you wear "juicy" across your butt? What would you think of a woman who did?

Outside of unlawful behavior, I am free to express my displeasure at fashions that bare a 10 year old's crotch, or remark upon the the contents within.

Someday, you can dress your own child in the manner you see fit.

[Quantess]

177. It isn't "slutty" it's tacky.

Neither you nor I have any idea about that young woman's / girl's sexuality based on her clothing. I'm surprised you would say that.

And yes, it's definitely tacky and even trashy, in my opinion. But you can't call her "slutty" for that. You really should know better.

[msanthrope]

181. I've called no one 'slutty.' Kindly retract your accusation. nt

[Quantess]

189. Okay, then. I take it back.

I see you did not word it that way. Never mind.

[msanthrope]

192. Thank you. nt

[LanternWaste]

199. Easy to hide behind implication and pretend we say things other than we mean.

Easy to hide behind implication and pretend we say things other than we mean.

Good luck!!!

[msanthrope]

200. You mean like your post? If you are accusing me of something,

why not say it plainly?

[redqueen]

185. IMO calling a woman a slut based on her sexuality is equally wrong.

Or even simply implying it, without directly saying so.

[mbperrin]

210. Would these qualify?

[ismnotwasm]

48. Fathers hopefully

Can respectfully join in the conversation as well. Yes, I understand you saw a Mom and Daughter situation.


MM, you're ok by me, but this thread is not, and is going in the trash before it gets out of hand. I've never seen a respectful or appropriate conversation here with regards to young girls and expressed sexuality.

I've already seen the word 'slut'. I'm done.

[jollyreaper2112]

52. part of the problem

Is that kids are hitting puberty younger and younger. Hormones in the food I think. I don't recall teenage girls being built like that when I was their age.

It's pretty disconcerting in public because a) the eye is drawn to the display b) the bodies are showing every sign of sexual maturity in a way that's impossible to not notice and c) you suddenly notice the face is way too young. Hank Hill "gah!" face.

It's a complex sort of question. At the gym some women are wearing ultra-short shorts with their buns poking out. Wow, that's a little provocative. Then again, hardline Muslims would say the same thing about hair showing.

There's some complex shit going on here, interactions between the social language both genders are indoctrinated into and playing with as well as the way we choose to react.

There's a lot of social cuing at work here. Consider how it's perfectly fine to see a woman in a bikini but catching a flash of white beneath a shirt even if it's very conservative underwear is more exciting. You weren't meant to see. The forbidden or at least excluded.

We've all had our brains addled.

[Art_from_Ark]

153. Sometimes the face doesn't properly convey the age

That is particularly the case here in Japan, where college girls can easily look 5-6 years younger than they actually are.

[Uzair]

53. So because you can't help but pop a stiffy over some jailbait cleavage...

People have to cover up for you? This is the same puritanical shit that causes this:



Sorry, but the mom nor the girl is the one with the problem here. They're breasts. They're buttocks. It's the human body. What kills me is that there are people in here who would have no problem with people openly carrying guns, but would balk at cleavage.

[MineralMan]

58. What stiffy?

Your assumption is incorrect.

[Uzair]

59. So then what so offended you that you had to move to other seats?

What exactly is your problem with shorts and a tank top?

[MineralMan]

61. I was annoyed by it.

When I'm annoyed at an airport, I move to a different seat to wait for boarding. I move when there are loud small children, too. I have that option, and I take it. What annoyed me was the inappropriateness of that clothing on a kid that age. I was not annoyed by the child. I was annoyed at the parent accompanying the child. That's my opinion, so I moved because it annoyed me.

Many things annoy me at airports. Other examples include someone talking loudly on a cell phone sitting near me and bad odors coming from some person who has not bathed recently. When I can avoid those annoyances, I do. I'm not fond of being annoyed, really. The solution was simple.

[morningfog]

67. Beaches must drive you mad with annoyance.

[MineralMan]

69. No, you know, they don't at all.

A beach and an airport gate area are quite different. People wear minimal clothing at beaches, whatever their age. That's the normal garb at the beach.

I'm also annoyed by T-shirts that say "Fuck!" on them at the airport. They don't bother me at a musical venue. If I were sitting across from a "Fuck!" T-shirt at the airport, I'd move to a different seat in the waiting area, too. I don't like being annoyed.

[morningfog]

71. How does location change what clothes you

deem to sexualized a little girl or not. I don't understand the distinction you are trying to make.

[MineralMan]

73. I can see that you don't understand.

I'm afraid I will not be able to explain adequately. So I'll not try further. Age-appropriate and venue-appropriate clothing is something I think is worth considering. I'm annoyed when it isn't. That's the best I can do for you.

[morningfog]

76. So, cleavage and buttocks of a 12 year old at a beach,

a okay. But cleavage and buttocks in an airport, sexualized, uncomfortable and annoying to old men.

Since you are helping out all the moms here, can you give the appropriate dress codes for 12 year old girls at various public places? You know, so moms won't let their little girls be seen through a sexualized lens by old men.

[uppityperson]

152. I notice he doesn't answer the interesting questions likethis one.

[mimi85]

240. Good answer!

It's amazing how some posters project their own feelings on to others. I have no idea how this thread got so off topic. Your OP was stated clearly and really didn't call for some of these snarky posts.

[Uzair]

91. So full of shit

You didn't say a thing about the venue in the OP. You're just saying that now to backtrack after people called you out on the obvious. Your ONLY problem was with the shorts and the top. Maybe girls ought to wear parkas and snow pants at all times lest they tingle something down in your loins? This shit is actually quite sexist, now that I think of it. I bet if some 12 year old boy was in shorts and a muscle shirt, you'd have not moved seats.

[leftstreet]

96. +1

Welcome to DU!

[MineralMan]

140. Did I not mention the airport?

I am sure I did.

[Neoma]

213. Many times.

I view all this as superficial. A judgement passed on by the basis of looks alone. Personally, I'd go as far as getting a noticeable tattoo to guide me around the superficial people. The basis of character is a lot more important than the bare skin and the shape of someone's body to me.

[redqueen]

123. Is there any location where you would have considered the girl at the airport to have been dressed

appropriately?

[MineralMan]

139. Sure. The mall. A theme park.

I can think of many places.

[redqueen]

142. So when you said "Moms: Please don't do this" you just meant that they shouldn't allow their young

looking daughters to wear clothing that you personally considered inappropriate for that particular setting.

Doesn't make any sense. Not based on what you said in the OP, or in general.

[kcr]

161. If it was okay at the mall, I don't see why it wouldn't be okay at the airport.

That makes zero sense.

[bettyellen]

80. beaches and airplanes are NOT the same thing, LOL.

[redqueen]

100. MM has already said his problem was with the age of the girl and the clothes she was wearing.

He can correct me if I'm mistaken but I doubt he'd be any less bothered by a girl he perceived as being 12 being dressed like that in any location.

For the life of me, I cannot understand a mom being OK with that dress for a pubescent girl.

He didn't add "at an airport" to that sentence.

[Buzz Clik]

104. Why do you defend him and never me?

Is it because he's a nice person and I'm an obnoxious asshole? Admit it: you're prejudiced against assholes.

[redqueen]

109. LOL what are you talking about?

Was that meant to be a joke cause it did make me LOL

I tend to discuss ideas rather than people, and I'm not taking kindly to MM's OP so if you think I'm defending him or it you are mistaken.

I can't keep names straight usually so I don't remember butting heads with you... I have been agreeing with a lot of your posts lately so I'm at a loss

[Buzz Clik]

114. Yes, it was a joke at many levels.

We clash on occasion, but nothing worth remembering.

Thank you for getting the joke and responding accordingly. Not everyone here has a sense of humor.

[redqueen]

121. Thanks for the laugh

Glad it didn't go over my head... my sense of humor is iffy, and on feminist issues, well, you know ..

[HappyMe]

107. Post 69- he addressed the beach issue.

[bettyellen]

148. I think the airport was the context he set up. It's a tricky subject- because while I wish

people would treat each other well no matter what you wear, I know only too well that it makes a HUGE difference how you get treated. When you are well groomed and a bit polished, most people treat you better. When you wear shorter skirts or something low cut, you usually get a lot more flirting from people. Whether you intend to send those signals doesn't really matter. It happens. People are very responsive to visual cues.
I worked in kids clothes and you have to switch models 2-3 times a year because of growth spurts. So I would end up meeting with a hundred or so want to be models (average age 9-10) a year for quite a few years, so this colors my experience. Too many of these kids were exploited by their parents and just hated doing it. But a portion of them were just playing at being adults- very out there and dressed in revealing clothes, so many padded bras, with full glamor makeup- eyeliner, false eyelashes and trying to act street wise and flirty in a really odd way. And you know, it's creepy when someone so young is putting themselves out there that way for a job that doesn't involve their looks (looks didn;t matter- we were fitting, and trust me it's weird telling kids to lose the padded bras). Most of them men felt really uncomfortable in their presence. I can understand it, I did too. It's a bit disconcerting to see kids fake being like adults.
You hope no one will take advantage of them, and in our case, that their family isn't encouraging them to exploit themselves further than they already are. The whole thing made me think no kids should work beyond simple kid jobs, LOL. It was definitely weird knowing a few of them were wandering around Manhattan like that un escorted telling people they would do ANYTHING to get in a music video- I had to fire two because I caught them coming and going all by themselves at that age. One lied to me an insisted she had a double who must have been working in the building- at the same time and wearing the same clothes. Anything for a dollar. Yikes.

[redqueen]

172. He has since said that he thinks the clothing would have been fine at a mall.

Fine at a mall, but outrageous and horrible enough to start an OP about it and lecture moms about it if it happens at an airport?

[bettyellen]

232. Im not sure I want to see anyone's butt cheeks at the mall. I can understand wanting to move out of

sight when someone is presenting a bit of a spectacle- their butt cheeks- in a place you don't normally see them.
Some people are going to be bound to stare- and check out other's reactions- and it's creepy uncomfortable all around to be in the midst of that. It's one thing when it's a grown up who knows they are engaging in attention seeking and understand what it all means. It's another when they are too young to know that some fucked up people will view their dress as invite to view - and consider them- as sexual objects. Not saying it is right that they would be, just saying it will happen.
I remember my niece at 10 being pretty aware, and telling my bosses (she was fit modeling) that she wouldn't wear those pants with anything written across the ass because she didn't to give anyone an excuse to stare at her ass for an extra second. And she was correct. Those pants almost forced you to look at kids asses. And if you don't want people to stare at your ass, you shouldn't wear them.

[snooper2]

127. Would you dress your girls up like this?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

150. Aside from the fact that they're missing, you know, pants...

my daughters in no way, shape, or form would be dressed to emulate Paris Hilton. Gross.

[TrogL]

218. Cute dog. Both girls could use a trip to the orthodontist

What was I supposed to be looking at again?

[kestrel91316]

131. He thought it was inappropriate, just as I would have. And I'm a woman.

But I would rolled my eyes and given her the stink eye before moving, lol.

[LanternWaste]

81. You apprear to host the same intolderance for others you indioct them with.

I don't think that simply frowning upon the clothing and tastes of another person, and doing nothing other than moving away from it (all of which were rather benign of him, yes?) qualifies as "puritanical shit".

On the other hand, the fictional melodrama and accusation projected onto someone else (not very benign at all of you, no?) does tend to indicate an amount of the same intolerance in your person that you indict others of.

[pipi_k]

94. This is

about as nasty as it gets.

Accusing some random guy you don't even know of getting an erection at the sight of a child dressed like a streetwalker.

Really??

Nasty and totally uncalled for.

Nobody is suggesting that women run around in burqas, FGS!

But what the hell is up with a mom allowing her preteen daughter to wear something she, as an adult, should KNOW will attract male attention???

[Uzair]

116. A "streetwalker"?

Your prudish intolerance is showing.


In case you delete your post, here is what you wrote:

Accusing some random guy you don't even know of getting an erection at the sight of a child dressed like a streetwalker.

[pipi_k]

173. Oh pardon me...

it was the way I was brought up, you see.

My parents divorced when I was 14 year, but my dad did manage to teach us girls something about self respect, which you call "prudish intolerance".

If someone dresses like a business woman, they look like a business woman.

If someone dresses like a "gothie", they look like a "gothie"

And if someone dresses like a professional streetwalker, that's what they look like.

That's life, honey. People look at others and form judgements based on all sorts of cues. ALL of us do it, including yourself, when you have judged me based on opinion I have regarding what people look like when they dress in certain ways.

[RetroLounge]

253. "prudish intolerance"?

And your assholishness is showing.

enjoy your stay, troll

RL

[Union Scribe]

157. Amazing a jury allowed an accusation like that to stand.

Saying another DUer was lusting after a 12 yr old? No problem, 4-2 to leave it. Sick.

[MattBaggins]

169. The jury system is a fucking joke

[Dr. Strange]

201. Excellent post.

You actually managed to go from an accusation of pedophilia to a post against open carry. I think you just out-stupided graham4anything!

[RetroLounge]

254. +1000

RL

[Ilsa]

70. I would be annoyed by either sex grossly under-dressed

for the occasion.

I don't want to look at someone's boobs or pit hair or part of their ass falling out of their shorts. I'm not always comfortable with ugly feet in sandals, either.

I don't know why people think everyone else wants to see 90% of their bodies out in a public spot like the airport, restaurant, etc.

[uppityperson]

154. I need to shave my armpits to not annoy you? I'll send you a photo of my feet and sandals to make

sure they aren't too ugly for you because, after all, I don't want to annoy people.

[Ilsa]

156. Certainly, please and

Thank you.
Add application of deodorant to that list.

[LanternWaste]

74. In 1983, I wore a Members Only Jacket, acid washed blue jeans, a peach colored Izod shirt

In 1983, I wore a Members Only Jacket, acid washed blue jeans, a peach colored Izod shirt with the collar turned up, no socks and deck shoes on a high school date. Hers was about as ridiculous. Odd thing though... we each thought the other looked rad.

I'm not really in any potion to pass opinion on anyone's clothing.

[MineralMan]

87. I graduated from high school in 1963,

I cringe at the clothing I wore then. But we though it was "boss" or whatever the term was at the time.

The only exception I make to that is Converse All Star high tops. I still wear them, from time to time. I have a pair of red ones, too, that I keep in a box. I wear those when I want to amuse people. It's always good for a laugh, seeing a 67-year-old man with a white beard wearing red All Stars.

[bullwinkle428]

166. I dressed about the same way in 1983! (I was 19 at the time)

[VWolf]

208. Fellow 80's child here

and I agree - I have NO authority to judge others' clothing after what I went through back then

Remember all the FRANKIE SAYS RELAX shirts???

[pnwmom]

75. If she had actual cleavage, chances are good she was older with a young face.

It can be extremely hard to judge the ages of girls in their teens. People always thought I was older than I was because I was so tall, but other people get misjudged in the other direction.

[Buzz Clik]

101. LOL! 100 replies and so quickly! Who knew?

I'll get you some ice, aspirin, bactericide, and band-aids.

[JI7]

108. the Shorts cut about the Butt seems to be a trend this season

i have been seeing it more than usual.

i also hate seeing guys with the sagging pants below their butt . look up justin bieber pics to see what i mean.

[Initech]

110. This will end well.

[Buzz Clik]

115. It started out fine...

... three old guys grousing about young ladies not dressing like young ladies should. However, two of us saw this train wreck coming and bailed real early. 110 posts later, and MineralMan being run out of town on a rail.

[Initech]

120. That was just round one. I'll stock plenty of butter for round 2.

[Warren DeMontague]

113. You must have a lot of free time.

I don't honestly spend a whole lot of energy giving a shit about what other people do.

[morningfog]

118. And much self-importance. "Now ladies, moms out there, tsk, tsk!"

[Buzz Clik]

143. You're taking this very, very personally. It was not intended that way.

[RetroLounge]

256. THis really hits close to home for you, huh?

Maybe you should wonder why.

RL

[Buzz Clik]

144. ... except when it comes to criticizing what they post.

[Warren DeMontague]

147. NO ONE IS TO STONE ANYONE UNTIL I BLOW THIS WHISTLE

Last edited Fri Jun 21, 2013, 06:48 AM - Edit history (1)

[MineralMan]

183. It seems pretty clear, doesn't it.

Actually, I often do have a lot of free time. Apparently, so do you.

I'd consider myself lucky, but I wish I had more work right now.

[txwhitedove]

145. I know exactly what you're talking about because my 12-yr old granddaughter chooses to dress

that way. She now wears a girls sz 14 but keeps squeezing into the size 10 jeans I haven't cleaned out of her closet, and caught her wearing a tube top to school! This dispite the talks we've had and morning inspection. She starts middle school in September and I am actually for the first time ever so glad she has to wear uniforms! Some may argue all they want that "it shouldn't matter what a girl wears". It's true it doesn't give anyone permission to get ideas or leer, but IT FREAKIN HAPPENS so get over it. A mature man, especially one who has daughters, knows that kind of clothing is just wrong on a prepubescent girl. We do NOT live in a magical rosy world so KIDS must protect themselves, girls and boys. I was always as cautious with my son and grandsons as with the girls.

[GObamaGO]

163. Parents. Not just moms.

Just sayin'

[suffragette]

168. Just visited LBN and now I see what this is about

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014511635

[MineralMan]

170. I didn't see that post.

What I saw was at LAX on Monday of this week.

Thanks for the link, though. The TSA agent was way out of line, to be sure. I said nothing. I just moved to another part of the waiting area, along with my wife.

[Marr]

171. While we're on the subject-- stop wearing pajamas in public, people.

For god's sake, "casual" means jeans/canvas pants/possibly even shorts and a shirt with no tie-- not fucking pajamas, lmao.

Also, get off my lawn.

[Sugarcoated]

224. Haha

Yeah!

[madinmaryland]

179. As a parent of a 15 year old, it comes down to picking and choosing the battles you want

to have with your child. I assume that mother figured it was not worth the battle.

[MineralMan]

182. I suppose that could be. It's a pity, though.

I seem to see a lot of parents who don't seem to try to control their childrens' behavior, though. Maybe they've given up completely. I don't know.

[madinmaryland]

187. Have you ever had a daughter or any child for that matter?

Without having been in someone else's shoes, you really have no clue as to what is going on.

It may be as you suggest that the parent is not trying to control their child's behavior, but I would guess it is much more likely that the parent was doing what I had suggested she was doing.

[MineralMan]

191. As I have said many times on DU,

I made a choice not to reproduce in 1965, based on population growth statistics. So, no, I haven't. I've certainly been around many, many parents though, and on a long-term basis. I can clearly see the difference in outcomes of different parenting styles, and that has interested me for many years.

You're right, of course. It could be either thing. I did not talk to either the mother or her daughter. That would have been exceptionally rude. I make a decision to remove myself from the annoyance. I almost always do that, rather than to say anything.

[redqueen]

188. Clothing isn't behavior. It's clothing.

I'm seriously puzzled by the fixation so many people have on clothing.

[LWolf]

190. They are thinking some of several things:

1. It's not her fault she's hot.

2. She's hotter than her friends.

3. All the girls dress that way; she has to keep up, or she won't be popular.

4. We couldn't find anything else at Walmart.

5. Pick your battles with teenage daughters; other issues are bigger than fashion.

As a teacher of pubescent people, I have heard all of these from mothers contacted about school dress codes.

[MineralMan]

193. Yes, I'm sure you have.

Fortunately, I'm not in any position that requires me to interact with parents who are not relatives of mine. I simply notice and move on. Which is what I did at the airport.

[trumad]

194. Jesus Christ on a Trailer Hitch...

This has got to be the perviest OP I've ever read on DU.

Oh MY---I saw the butt cheeks of a supposed 12 year old -----oh my--- I had to move to another seat because---oh my----

You starting the OP by telling us you went to your 50th High School reunion tells us everything.

Annoyed because a 12 year old wore some Daisy Dukes.

You have no idea if the girl was 12---- no idea what so ever.

More Hall Monitoring bullshit from MM.

[MineralMan]

196. Well, thanks for your feedback, trumad.

I appreciate the fact that you took some of your valuable time to comment on my post. That's heartening.

[Sheldon Cooper]

197. I know, right?

Our resident pedant choosing to grace us with another lecture. You can almost set your watch by it.

[mimi85]

245. You've got to be kidding.

I didn't get any of that out of the OP. It's truly amazing how two people can read the same thing and interpret entirely differently.

[RetroLounge]

257. I think maybe you are blinded by your prior interactions with the OP

The only thing pervy is your reply.

RL

[LibDemAlways]

198. That's what kids wear these days in So. Calif. I substitute teach in

middle and high school and can assure you that short shorts and tank tops are the norm. Go to any mall here in LA and try to find a pair of shorts for teen girls that aren't tiny. Not saying I approve of the style. Only saying that's the reality, and there isn't much the mom can do about it when every one of that kid's friends dresses the same way. The peer pressure to conform at that age is beyond intense. I have a feeling mom has decided to choose her battles.

[VWolf]

209. If that's the case, I'm the luckiest dad ever.

My daughters (8 and 13) seem to be completely immune to peer pressure when it comes to how they dress. Of course, Mrs VWolf and I have tried to raise them to think for themselves.

[AtheistCrusader]

204. Over-sexualization of children can be a problem, sure.

But I draw a line between corporate exploitation/over-sexualization (selling it), and a person just expressing themselves/exploring their own sexuality.

I presume you didn't check her ID. But even if you did, and she really was 12, what business is it of yours what she chooses to wear? Maybe she intended for it to be provocative. Who cares.

A 12 year old very well might begin expressing sexual tones, and it's up to the adults not to exploit them for it. If she wasn't backing her ass up into your face, I find it hard to understand why you care at all. You have no responsibility for that child's well-being. You don't know her age, honestly.

(I also don't understand why you called out 'moms' on this one anecdotal example)

[awoke_in_2003]

211. Why move?...

Could you not control yourself? As a 45 year old male, this sounds creepy.

[RetroLounge]

258. Why does it bother you that he moved?

RL

[Grey]

212. You did exactly the right thing.

I would have moved as well. You didn't cause a fuss, make rude remarks or oggle the kid. You just up and moved. It is supposed to be a free country and you have the right to move away from something or someone that makes you uncomfortable. Good for you, Mate.

[MineralMan]

214. Both my wife and I moved. She made much the same

comment I made, and was annoyed by it, as I was. So, we just moved. I said nothing to anyone. I didn't ogle that child. I moved because I was annoyed by the display, and I don't like feeling annoyed. Once I moved, I was no longer annoyed. My wife and I discussed it later on.

People who are implying anything beyond what I described are simply incorrect. I don't even understand that.

[Ed Suspicious]

215. Dress is communication. Why do we where suit and tie? What is it meant to say about us?

Why do teen boys often where their pants beltless around their lower hamstring just about the knee? What is it meant to communicate? Why do doctors where a white lab coat or nuns a habit? Clothes are often used to communicate a message that the wearer wants to convey about themselves? What message does "JUICY" butt sweatpants communicate? What about lace lined cleavage? What do the people in this thread suppose the intended message of these style choices are? If the message is I have a juicy ass, ripe for the squeezing, them mineral man's offended sensibilities seem to be on point and and really the opposite of the pedophile some of you seem to making him out to be.

[AtheistCrusader]

222. Juicy is a logo.

Juicy Couture is the brand I think. Anyway, they didn't start the trend of putting a word on the butt of a pair of sweatpants or whatever, by any means.

[bike man]

216. I think you are absolutely correct. nt

[noamnety]

220. My standard for what's appropriate

is generally "if this were a poster in a general office setting, would it be bordering on creating a hostile work environment for anyone working there?"

I'm old enough to remember when it was a big deal that guys were no longer allowed to have pinup posters of tons of cleavage and butt cheeks in their cubicles, because it was understood that it was demeaning to women who worked there.

I have a hard time reconciling the idea that we find those posters inappropriate because they sexualize women, while at the same time refusing to acknowledge that underage teens dressing that way are being sexualized.

When I see teens showing up in school with micromini skirts, fishnets held up with garters, and very tall spiked heels, it's very hard not to view it as an attempt to be seen as a sex object. If the principal had a series of posters of a similarly aged girl dressed the same way in his office, he'd have a difficult time convincing parents it was appropriate and "not at all sexual."

[MineralMan]

221. I'm not that concerned with the dress of high-school aged teens

or older. It's children younger than that, dressed way beyond their age, that bother me. I've never thought it was appropriate, and am concerned that it may attract unwanted attention from men who prey on tweens and the like. I don't like it. I wouldn't say anything to the kid or a parent. That's not my place in any way. I can, though, post my thoughts about it on DU, so I did.

Some agreed with me. Others did not. So it goes on DU.

[hedgehog]

242. Excellent example!

[NaturalHigh]

226. I remember a few years back...

when some young girls were wearing t-shirts that said "pornstar." For the life of me, I don't know how any parent could let his or her child wear that. The sexualization of children is a real problem in our society.

[pipi_k]

228. Parents who let their kids dress

that way...

I would imagine they'll never "get it", but someday hopefully the kid (who for now doesn't know any better) will grow up and understand, and then ask the parent/mom, "Good god...why on earth did you let me dress like that???"

All this crap I read above about "choosing battles"...yeah...that's for when the kid is two years old and it's easier to let her dress in pink tights, polka dotted shirt, princess tutu, and two different colored sneakers.

By the age of 12 or so, the parent should be able to reason with the kid...not be afraid of a temper tantrum.

Also...who the hell is buying this stuff, anyway? As long as she's living under her parent's roof and they are supporting her, I think they have a right to tell her she can be reasonably fashionable without looking like a tramp.

Are they only selling skimpy shorts in the stores? Too bad. There must be a pair or two of worn out jeans the kid has that can be cut down to shorts that don't show half her ass.

People worry so damned much about their kid being accepted because they're wearing the latest fashions. How about, oh, focusing on something more important....like intelligence and talents and character?

I agree with you. Sexualization of kids is a big problem these days.

[maddiemom]

229. I'm not sure how I emded up on this thread. HOWEVER, mothers have long and foreverr

used their daughters to fulfill their own fantasy/ambitions. As a teacher/mom, I've tried very hard to allow my daughter to follow her own interests, and move on, when losing interest. The more experiences your kids have, the better. Just dont lock them in.

[hedgehog]

243. I think you're making a good point about the two extremes.

[HipChick]

244. I'm not a mom, and will never be...

but I have sure as hell sent my teenage niece back to her room to find something more suitable to wear...

we have had many fights about her clothing style...

I am no prude, but dressing a certain way allows folks to treat you a certain way...I want her to get that message

[MineralMan]

246. I agree. Thanks.

[gollygee]

247. I have mixed feelings here

On one hand, yes there is a level where dress in inappropriate.

On the other hand, when the weather is hot out, my daughter will wear a tank top and shorts. And the shorts I see being sold are fairly short, though she's has none where her butt is hanging out. And she has no cleavage. But I'm sure there are people who think it's inappropriate for her to wear a tank top and shorts. Really, it's just because it's hot out.

[MineralMan]

248. I have no problem with shorts and tank tops on kids.

My problem was with this specific shorts and tank top in that particular location. Maybe you had to be there. I don't know.