NSA spying scandal - the story so far. The real purpose is political blackmail NOT counter terror

[TakeALeftTurn]

Edward Snowden presents hard evidence of the extent and scope of the NSA's Mass Surveillance.
It is reported in the Guardian on June 6th.
Little that is new is revealed by Snowden in this and subsequent articles, except that the NSA's mass internet data collection program is called Prism.
Every potential terrorist and just about every foreign government knew that the NSA was spying on EVERY American and millions more around the world.
Lots of other people knew too.

Glenn Greenwald's first and subsequent articles report that the NSA is indiscriminately collecting phone call data and massive amounts of internet activity on EVERY American.

The only thing that is new is that the world (and Congress) sits up and takes notice.
The scandal causes major embarrassment to members of the US government.

Predictably the US government and the US media try to attack the messenger not the message.
They fail and the scandal grows as more and more people sit up and take notice.

Previous NSA whistle blowers, William Binney, Thomas Drake and J Kirk Wiebe are completely vindicated. They confirm what Snowden is saying.

James Clapper and Dianne Feinstein are caught lying big time.
Clapper's perjury under oath to Congress carries a maximum sentence of 5 years in jail.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022990011

The NSA Director, General Keith Alexander, is caught lying under oath to Congress 14 times by Hank Johnson.
Each count of perjury carries a maximum sentence of 5 years - 70 years in total.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022998300

James Bamford's previous article on the NSA's massive data center, just completed in Utah, is used by Hank Johnson as evidence.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022998690

The reason the Utah data center is so massive and has the capacity to store the entire contents of the internet thousands of times over is obvious.
It is required to store massive amounts of surveillance data on EVERY American and millions more around the world.

Amy Goodman's article, from 2012, that the NSA has gone rogue is completely vindicated.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2012/apr/26/how-national-security-agency-gone-rogue

The NSA's justification for their Mass Surveillance activities are completely discredited.
They can cite ZERO examples where a terror plot could not of been foiled without the Patriot Act by obtaining a warrant after finding probable cause.

And they do not need to carry out mass surveillance in order to thwart terrorist plots.
The Dirty Little Secret About Mass Surveillance: It Doesn’t Keep Us Safe
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/the-dirty-little-secret-about-nsa-spying-it-doesnt-work.html

The Zazi New York subway case is completely discredited by Obama himself.
It could easily have been thwarted after obtaining a WARRANT after finding PROBABLE CAUSE.
http://www.fair.org/blog/2013/06/18/spinning-surveillance-via-discredited-nsa-talking-points/

No, NSA Spying Did NOT Prevent a Terror Attack on Wall Street
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/no-nsa-spying-did-not-prevent-a-terror-attack-on-wall-street.html

We Have the Technological Ability to Keep Americans Safe WITHOUT Spying On Everyone
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/we-have-the-technological-ability-to-keep-americans-safe-without-spying-on-everyone.html

Alan Grayson clearly spells out the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs to the American people and to Congress.
He is determined to put a stop to it.

It is revealed that the NSA is getting around the "legal limitations" on spying on millions of Americans via the Five Eyes program with the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
They spy on each other's citizens and swap data.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023007431

The NSA is caught telling 11 lies and 1 truth at a Congressional "hearing" on 18th June.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023045242

Obama is lying when he says that the CONTENTS of phone calls are not being collected - they are.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023052659

It is revealed that GCHQ is tapping into the world's major fiber optic cables to bulk collect internet and phone data on just about everone in the world.
They then pass this information on for the NSA to store at their facility in Utah.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa

People are very slowly starting to wake up as to the true purpose and implications of the NSA Mass Surveillance programs.
GCHQ revelations: mastery of the internet will mean mastery of everyone | Guardian
http://gu.com/p/3gn8z/tw

The NSA's Mass Surveillance programs are NOT counter terrorism measures for which they are extremely ineffective.
See Boston which was a massive intelligence failure and should of been stopped.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023028453

The true purpose of the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs are to blackmail and intimidate in order to suppress political dissent and to control those in government or political rivals.
When someone upsets the government in some way they will become a "a person of interest", their existing surveillance file (they have one on everyone) will be looked up to see what the NSA has on them.

The scope of the NSA's data collection :-

ALL phone records, including Meta data giving location.
The contents of ALL phone calls
ALL Emails
ALL texts
ALL voicemails
ALL SKYPE conversations
Large amounts of social media activity
ALL internet searches
ALL internet sites visited
Large amounts of electronic financial transactions - bank accounts and purchases etc.

Some of the political enemies, dissidents or rivals that are to be targeted as "persons of interest"

Occupy protesters
Leading climate change protesters
Keystone pipeline protesters

Anti Monsanto organizers
Tea Party activists
Gun rights activists
Troublesome journalists (there are not many of those these days, the vast majority of mainstream journalists are lapdogs for the Establishment)
National politicians - members of Congress
Federal judges
State politicians
Leaders of State Parties
Critics of the NSA
Vocal critics of government policies
Top military personnel
Top government officials
Business people

Lawyers
Civil rights activists

etc. etc.

There are now something like 800,000 people on government watch lists.
Probably at least half of them have nothing whatsoever to do with Islamic Extremism or Terrorism.
They are people the government DOESN'T LIKE and wants to CONTROL.

Bombshell: Former. Intelligence Agent confirms that the NSA is spying on a broad range of top politicians and officials, including Obama himself in 2006 and that Obama is Lying.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/bombshell-fmr-intelligence-agent-accuses-nsa-obama-of-lying-alleges-broader-spying-programs/
http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/06/21/former-intelligence-analyst-obama-was-wiretapped-by-nsa-in-2004/

Clear Evidence That Corporate America Wants the Government to Treat Protesters as 'Terrorists' | Alternet
http://www.alternet.org/corporate-accountability-and-workplace/corporations-think-protesters-are-terrorists

All the Infrastructure a Tyrant would need, courtesy of Bush, Obama and Congress
We are one step away from a turnkey authoritarian Police State
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022975266

The government is LYING to you on a GRAND SCALE
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023031425

The real threat from the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs - the existential threat to democracy itself in America
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023056122

Appendices

The catalog of information on the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs plus recent relevant articles since Snowden's information was first reported.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022962685

America's international relations with their allies are already being adversely affected around the world as the information on what the NSA is doing gets out.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023062204

Over one million people have already signed the international petition to grant Snowden immunity from prosecution and to stop Prism immediately.
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stop_prism_global/?wZumrcb

The White House petition to "Pardon Edward Snowden" has now reached it's target of 100,000 in order to force (a dismissive) response from Obama.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD
Even more signatories would be helpful to make a stronger case.

Over 376,000 people have signed EFF's petition to "Stop Watching Us"
It has only been going about 4 days, most people don't know about it yet.
https://optin.stopwatching.us/

William Binney's previous revelations about the NSA's mass data collection programs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022990788

AP's article on the history and extent of the NSA's Mass Surveillance programs
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/secret-prism-success-even-bigger-data-seizure

Your entire email account (and much else) is now in the hands of the government
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023052252

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. I take it you are not a reader?

You should actually read the links given in the OP before spouting off. It makes you look stupid!

Cheers!

[think]

13. But

Carnac the Magnificent always read after his predictions...

[TakeALeftTurn]

4. You could not have read the article

It had only been up 3 minutes before you commented.

[Marr]

32. Company policy is to grab the first post and derail discussion.

I've come to assume that's the case, anyway.

[Skip Intro]

55. Yes, that is the tactic. It's been failing badly recently.

Maybe that's why we're seeing new ones like the one upthread, who said yesterday that the whole NSA thing was anti-Obama racism.

Glad to see it fall flat, though.

It's like DU is back!

[Rockyj]

90. This is good to know...

I have been freaking out about how so many of us support NSA! Why would anyone here be supportive of our government spying and collecting meta data on ALL US citizens with out probable cause? Its real scary watching so many Progressive Liberals becoming so willing to allow this to happen to us? To the point of anyone who speaks out against NSA, Obama Administration and the demonetization of Edward Snowden is a crazy conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones. We can't allow this to happen.

[sibelian]

94. It's easily smacked in the face. Just say what it is.

Every time. Forever.

Win the small battles and the big battles win themselves...

[Zorra]

61. +1

[Enthusiast]

71. Exactly...........nt

[Th1onein]

7. OMG! Are you kidding me?

LOLOLOL!

[99Forever]

11. I see The Culture of Personality Apologists ...

... wasted no time sending a blanket denier here to say, "Nu uh, did not neither," without bothering to read the evidence that proves what the OP posted.

[L0oniX]

50. Glad someone will be arround after church to clear up this NonSense.

[Android3.14]

87. Yup NonSense

The real question is whether NonSense is AI generated or if there is a real person. Seriously, who would have thought the Turing Test would reach it's ultimate expression in political crowd control and Nigerian Internet scams?

[Cirque du So-What]

12. You put Evelyn Wood to shame

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Wood_%28teacher%29

You will catch a bodacious amount of flak for posting so hastily - and rightfully so. You wouldn't want to be seen as a troll so early in your brief-ass tenure, would you? Karma has a way of dealing with those characters.

[rhett o rick]

21. Ah if life were so honest and easy we wouldnt have to even think. Just relax, let our

government do what they want, believe everything they say, and watch Dancing with the Non-Stars."

Your statement is naive. The evidence clearly shows they can get a warrant for whatever they want. They just have to evaluate the data, figure out what they need to investigate further and find a FISA-rubber stamp judge.

Second, they can use the data to tell them what they need to find. Let's say the data indicates that a pain in the political ass NY Governor is seeing a prostitute. All the authorities have to do is figure out a way to catch him. Maybe show up at one of his rendezvous. Easy peasy.

[Pholus]

27. Then you didn't read the minimization document correctly.

Information not relevant to the investigation covered by the warrant can still be used under a fairly loosely worded set of fairly general circumstances.

[backscatter712]

31. Please do not feed the trolls!

*PLONK*

[Coyotl]

53. Trolls are really important.

The trolls create a discernible pattern of disinformation, one that ultimately reveals the truth.

[Enthusiast]

72. And the 24/7 media misinformation campaign is just as obvious.

I see signs that the population is starting to see through the smoke screen. NEVER has there been, in the annals of history, a propaganda effort a fraction of the size we live under. It's a house of cards.

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

Frank Zappa

[Coyotl]

75. Like!

[Myrina]

43. I guess those ads about "getting paid to surf the net"

Are real. This "member" seems to be on a single minded mission. Wonder who's signing the paycheck?

[L0oniX]

44. What's it like to be a rocket scientist?

[MannyGoldstein]

47. It can secretly be used to put people on he White House's secret kill list

and then they can be secretly killed. Without any review by a judge in the entire process.

Do you see why this is staggering?

[sigmasix]

57. but what about Manny's secret kill list?

There is just as much evidence that Manny has a secret kill list supplied to him by Glenn Beck. Why don't you prove that you dont have a secret kill list Manny? Maybe because you know that the truth will set us free?

[MannyGoldstein]

58. Obama's secret kill list was reported in the NY Times

and many other places.

Manny's kill list, so far, is unreported by any new agency. Because it doesn't exist.

Wake up.

[Enthusiast]

73. Wake up!

No shit.

What kind of a country do these fuckers want to live in? That's my question.

[Coyotl]

52. Tell that to Richard Nixon and the Republican National Committee.

Oh wait, Nixon died. But hey, he was just a tool of the RNC.

[formercia]

59. Let me tell you how it's used.

I had it done to me.

They take the raw Data and make a case against you, not to use in Court, but to create rumor and innuendo, aimed at your Employer, Family, Neighbors, City Officials, Friends (soon to be ex friends), anyone you have contact with that might interact with you, your Bank, Credit Union, Merchants, Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists. Everywhere you go, they are one step behind, with dossier in-hand.
They will make you a Pariah in your Community. If you move away, it starts all over again. They have unlimited resources. They will call on Law Enforcement, the Military, Forest Rangers, whatever it takes to destroy you.

Like the old Skull and Bones admonition: Violate your Oath and you will die Penniless, and without Friends.

They don't give a fuck about the Law.

[creeksneakers2]

70. Why did they do it to you?

[formercia]

85. Because I went to the IG and told them about illegal activities.

Once you're on the Shit List, you're there forever.

[TakeALeftTurn]

78. Yep

They don't need to make a legal case for prosecution of a crime to get you.

The great majority of people that they target won't of committed a crime.

[TakeALeftTurn]

79. This is one first hand account of how Mubarak did it in Egypt

There are lots of ways they can set out to blackmail and initimidate someone.

http://privacysos.org/node/1077

The way the law is, it is estimated that every American breaks some kind of law 3 times a day.
If they want to make your life difficult, they can just call the cops out on you, for something that is usually ignored thousands of times a day.

[Vinnie From Indy]

2. And people sometimes wonder why politicians do strange things?

Maybe it is because they have been compromised and now are controlled by the people that control these powers. It could be true!

[rwsanders]

36. There are 3 books that might reveal more about this that I need to read...

JFK and the Unspeakable (claims exactly what you are saying)
Family of Secrets (about the Bushes)
A People's History of the United States (just found the first article I have ever seen about the origins of the Viet Nam war from the Howard Zinn project, it was stunning).

[rucky]

5. Bookmarked

and a bet that someone will find one thing wrong will all these links and use it to discredit everything posted.

[mia]

6. "now in the hands of 'the government' ..."

Who is the government, then? The NSA?

[L0oniX]

45. Monsanto. n/t

[Octafish]

60. Amway

Affiliates and pawns of Erik Prince and Dick DeVos, like the guy running "oversight" on the House Intelligence Committee, Mike Rogers, and the guy just running fascist Michigan, Rick Snyder.

[Enthusiast]

74. The Wall Street fraudsters. The rest are just their employees.

Those are your rulers.

[Thinkingabout]

8. NSA scandal, you did not add Snowden lied also, BTW, I am a speed reader.

[Th1onein]

9. THANK YOU, TakeALeftTurn! A hearty kick and a thumping recommendation!

Put it all together, didn't you? Good job!

[TakeALeftTurn]

16. Thank you for the compliment

[think]

24. +1

[dkf]

10. Amazing and comprehensive list...and all this we know thanks to Snowden and whistleblowers.

The government info is at best worthless at worst deceptive.

[Psephos]

14. informative, frightening, vital post n/t

[Catherina]

15. Thank you for this treasure trove of links! Applause! n/t

[HooptieWagon]

17. Nice compilation, TALT.

Kicked, Recc'd, and Bookmarked!

[Octafish]

18. Outstanding work and brilliant analysis.

Endless wars for profit require cooperation. Like "They" do with the UN, can't take any risks when it comes to democracy.

[Life Long Dem]

19. Kurt Eichenwald says different about Prism

First, the much-ballyhooed PRISM program is not a program and not a secret, and anyone who says it is should not be trusted because they don’t know what they’re talking about. PRISM is the name for the government computer system that is used to handle the foreign-intelligence data collected under Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

Some explanation up front: I spent seven years investigating the national-security systems and policies established in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks for my book 500 Days. I learned a fair amount about the data-mining programs of the N.S.A. and wrote about it.

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/eichenwald/2013/06/prism-isnt-data-mining-NSA-scandal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Eichenwald

Little that is new is revealed by Snowden in this and subsequent articles, except that the NSA's mass internet data collection program is called Prism.

So Snowden isn't even right about Prism when he calls it a program according to Kurt Eichenwald.

[allin99]

63. interesting. thanks.

[stevenleser]

69. Not surprising. That's a third link now that doesnt prove what the OP asserts it proves.

The first two that I clicked on did not prove the contention either.

[TakeALeftTurn]

77. Garbage

The building of the Utah data center is well documented.
They even had "an opening ceremony" in May.

The capacity of this facility has also been documented.

This isn't the only facility for the NSA to store data.
It is, by far, the largest that I know of.

It is also documented that as part of Five Eyes, the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand are sharing data with the NSA, by spying on each other's citizens.
They are using the NSA's "cloud" which now includes the facility in Utah in order to do this.

Five Eyes is how they are getting round some of the "legal technicalities" of the NSA collecting massive amounts of surveillance data on EVERY American.

[silvershadow]

20. I K&R for you, but I wouldn't expect much love here. DU is full of hugs and kisses for much of what

is going on it seems.

[HardTimes99]

22. I would request that you add one further link (after you vet it

for appropriateness and\or redundancy with other of your links):

http://news.firedoglake.com/2013/06/21/former-intelligence-analyst-obama-was-wiretapped-by-nsa-in-2004/

If the allegations in this article are true, NSA spying by Bush-bots may explain why Obama has felt himself compelled to appoint so many Bush apparatchiks (Alexander, Clapper, Brennan and now Comey) to his administration.

I recognize this is somewhat CT and am more than willing to have you ignore it entirely if you think it advisable.

Excellent job pulling it all together - quite impressive. My compliments!

[TakeALeftTurn]

28. Ok I have added it

I don't agree with the theory put forward about Obama.

I have substantive but not conclusive other evidence that contradicts it.
(Not the statement from Tice that Obama was wire tapped in 2006 - that I can believe).

[HardTimes99]

29. Your OP is amazingly well done. I don't have the patience for that

type of pains-taking labor and attention to detail, so I definitely appreciate those who do.

[KoKo]

23. Thanks for all the work on this. Links are a great resource...

putting it all together.

Recommend!

[Autumn]

25. That is why we are where we are

excellent job on putting it all together and thank you.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Well done. K&R

[think]

30. Great job! This might fit that list too:

Bold added for emphasis.

NSA plant in San Antonio shrouded in secrecy
By Nolan Hicks | June 16, 2013 | Updated: June 17, 2013 5:48pm

SAN ANTONIO - Over the past six years, the National Security Agency has quietly transformed the former Sony chip fabrication plant on the northwest side into a black-box hub of intelligence gathering and data storage.

Satellite and aerial imagery show that massive air conditioning units and backup generators have been added to the facility, which is now ringed by barbed-wire fencing. City permits and property tax records show that the complex has been dramatically expanded.

~Snip~

Longtime observers of the intelligence agency say they believe the San Antonio plant has a mission similar to the agency's other new facilities in Georgia and Hawaii, where communications intercepted by NSA are translated and then sent to headquarters in Maryland for analysis.

~Snip~

With the facilities in Georgia and Hawaii, as well as with other major construction projects, the NSA included the costs as line items in the Defense Department's budget. But it hasn't done so with the San Antonio location. In a written statement, an NSA spokeswoman said funding for the project followed normal protocol. However, she did not identify the budget item that Congress approved for the expansion

Full article:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/NSA-plant-in-San-Antonio-shrouded-in-secrecy-4604109.php

[ymetca]

33. You forgot this one!

http://www.naturalnews.com/040859_Skynet_quantum_computing_D-Wave_Systems.html

[truebluegreen]

40. Riiiiiight.

[L0oniX]

49. Enjoy your stay. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. Some will remain blind

some were blind to begin with.

Some know, but want you to be blind.

[Herlong]

35. How long did Snowden work for the NSA?

I don't care for Snowden, but I do care for my country. I'm not all about Snowden at this time. I worked for a temp agency once and that lasted three months, but all my other jobs were long term.

[WillyT]

37. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[Ichingcarpenter]

38. Good Post...

tasty with extra links too

[Progressive dog]

39. Throw more shit at wall, see what sticks

I picked at random, and went to Rep. Hank Johnson's congressional site. He has a story about the NSA, but multiple perjuries aren't there.

[xiamiam]

41. thats quite a compilation.thank you..nt

[SCVDem]

42. Half the storage capacity at the NSA

Is loaded with porn.

Seriously, it's bigger than facebook or the other nonconsequential crap like grocery lists.

This is what we're paying for?

Note: I pulled those stats out of my ass but bet I'm close!

[malaise]

46. All I will say is that the Politburo in the US makes the Soviets

look like amateurs.

[Coyotl]

51. The real purpose is political control of the USA and global assets.

Why do you suppose the Republicans hijacked the Congressional mail servers? To spy on the Democrats, of course.

[Coyotl]

54. Don't forget poliutical campaigns of every kind and level.

[temmer]

56. Absolutely superb - thank you

This seems to be a watershed situation - not only for the US, but for the Earth

[Zorra]

62. Bookmarking. Thanks for the info resouce!

[SamKnause]

64. NSA

Well done, well done indeed !!!!

[bvar22]

65. But...but...Snowden had boxes in his garage,

..and some people are saying he LIED on his Resume'!!!!
So THERE!

You are just a BIG Racist, because what else could it be?... HA!!!


Excellent Compilation!
This deserves 1000 Recs.
Bookmarking for further research and wider distribution.

[Uncle Joe]

66. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, TakeALeftTurn.

[cantbeserious]

67. Well Done - Thank You For The Contribution

eom

[stevenleser]

68. The first two links I clicked on did not factually prove what you say they did.

I'm guessing the same will be the case for the rest. All unproven allegations and suppositions and conspiracy theory.

[TakeALeftTurn]

76. Yes they do

Clapper blatantly lied when he said the NSA wasn't collecting surveillance data on millions of Americans.
Just the Verizon FISA court order showed they were spying on tens of millions.

The NSA Director Keith Alexander blatantly lied multiple times under oath to Hank Johnson.

And the links in total also show the government is blatantly lying in general and that you cannot believe a single word that they say.

[DeSwiss]

80. ''The only thing that is new is that the world (and Congress) sits up and takes notice.''

- K&R

[NealK]

81. K&R

[blkmusclmachine]

82. TRUST US.

We wouldn't lie to you,

again.

[tex-wyo-dem]

83. kicked, bookmarked and recd! thank you!

[ucrdem]

84. Intriguing in a Da Vinci Code kind of way . . .

Props for stringing it all together into one big contraption. But here's where it goes off the rails:

Glenn Greenwald's first and subsequent articles . . .

Everything after that gets shelved under "fiction," but fiction has its own rewards so good on ya!

[nolabels]

86. Nice work, and thanks

And now for all those who didn't think that 9/11 was a plot to erect a national security state and take your rights away, what do you have to say now?

[RC]

88. Yeah but, but, but...

9/11 happened in a vacuum. They just hated us for our freedoms and the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit issue. Everything the bu$h government said about 9/11 is 100% true, including the fact that tens of thousands of gallons or pounds or liters or tons of jet fuel flowed straight toward and down the elevator shafts to the 7th sub basement where it burned so hot in that airless environment that it simultaneously melted all 47 columns and cause the building to collapse from the top down into its own footprint. Would our government lie to us? No, we are the greatest and bestest country that ever existed. Why our very flag instills fear in other countries. That's why our government don't lie to us. And that's the truuuth.

We have people right here on DU that basically believe the above. That our government is good and has the best interest of us citizens in mind, so it is OK when they lie, start wars, kill families in foreign countries, we are not with war with, ambushed with drones, supply both sides of a conflict with weapons. Usually not at the same time to make it harder to prove. But we have along history of doing this.
They see nothing wrong with the wholesale spying that is counter to the 4th Amendment, no matter how lightly or thoroughly the 4th Amendment is read or studied. These reality deniers make no Sense.
Our government is now turning on us, the US citizens, to be treated as this country has been treating people in other countries.

[Oilwellian]

89. Excellent post

Bookmarking

K&R

[alfredo]

91. As a former member of an information gathering agency in the military, the ASA,

I can understand how a person can become disillusioned and angry at their own country. Your job in intel becomes your world, you see nothing but the worst in mankind. It twists you, it makes you a cynic. It drives you a little nuts (PTSD?). I went through that crisis myself, but didn't do what Snowden did. I realized nothing would change if I talked, except for me being housed in some federal prison. My own sense of honor prevented me from going against my own word. I said I would keep my mouth shut about my job and I did. Instead of betraying the oath I took, I just carried on and when my time was up, I put on my civies, threw away my shaving kit, walked out the gate and put that life behind me.

It did radicalize me. I dropped out of society for a couple decades. I started coming back in a bit once married. That street fighting anarchist is still inside me, but the old arthritic bones keeps me away from the barricades. It's a young man's game. Snowden may have done more good by channeling that rage into working for justice in his own home town. We need some angry young men and women to fight against mountaintop removal and fracking. Corporate greed and corporate control of our government is the real enemy. (see last paragraph)

As soon as Snowden went public, everything changed in that community. What info he had that hasn't been released, code words, frequencies, encryption, has changed. His value as an asset to our adversaries has diminished greatly. There is a very short shelf life for intel. That's why torture is of little use. An asset gets captured, and before he spends his first night in captivity, his cohorts have moved on and reworked every part of their system. You can't assume he will keep his yap shut.

The real damage done by Snowden is confirming what was suspected, and that is mitigated by the universal realization that no secure system is secure. Our allies and enemies are spying on us, and we them, and we know they can breach our firewalls. Snowden's revelations were probably met with a big shrug world wide. That doesn't mean the politicians will not use it to their advantage.

Military secrets are just one target, the big target is the international business community. The cold war is now an economic war. al Qaeda's end game was the destruction of our economic and in turn, our military capabilities. "They hate us for our freedom" was total bullshit. They hate us for our economic clout and the effect it has on their culture.

If you remember, at the end of the cold war GHW Bush shifted the focus away from military intel to spying on the international business community. Industrial espionage for the benefit of Corporate America is the real reason for our expanded spy agencies. I'd be willing to bet that much of the data collected is not individuals, but the business communities in our economic rivals. In business we have no allies, just enemies and potential enemies.

[dixiegrrrrl]

93. I really appreciate the information you just provided

it helped me make some connections in my mind.

Thanks....

[alfredo]

95. I have no doubt that those contractors are using their access for their own gain. They

are not covered by the 4th amendment, so they can spy on us at will. They need no FISC, no warrants. The right believes we have no right to privacy as affirmed in Griswold Vs Connecticut and Roe Vs Wade. That is what is at the crux of their opposition to R v W. Anti abortion advocates are just useful idiots.

If Americans have no right to privacy, we have no right to fight invasions of our privacy by government and business.

[Harmony Blue]

92. Wow that is a lot of info

time to bookmark and start reading! Thank you!

[temmer]

96. kick

[ucrdem]

97. PSA: Visiting author from Infowars and the Daily Paul Liberty Forum

has left to spend more time with his family:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=281180&sub=trans

Thank you Skinner!

[ProSense]

98. NSA spying scandal - the story so far. The real purpose is political blackmail NOT counter terror

NSA spying scandal - the story so far. The real purpose is political blackmail NOT counter terror
http://ian56.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-nsa-mass-surveillance-scandal-story.html#!/2013/06/the-nsa-mass-surveillance-scandal-story.html

STOP the Federal Reserve from RUINING our lives
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021429557
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1429608

Hmmm
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3070273

Not surprised that a Ron Paul supporter picked up on this as well
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3070334

[ucrdem]

99. The bat has left the belfry. Skinner freed him. nt