Justice For Snowden

[arely staircase]

Rec if you think he deserves a fair trial!

[darkangel218]

1. He will never get a fair trial.

So what kind of trial he "deserves", becomes irrelevant. Since is guaranteed he won't get a fair one.

[arely staircase]

2. but doesn't he deserve one?

a chance to prove he is innocent?

[darkangel218]

5. I reformulated my reply.

Honestly , do you think he has a chance to a fair trial?

[arely staircase]

14. the question is, does he deserve one

doesn't he? he is charged with espionage, shouldn't he be allowed to present evidence and question witnesses in order to make the government prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt? it is his right.

[cali]

3. what you think is a fair trial and what I think is a fair trial may differ vastly

Do you think he can get a fair trial in the U.S.?

I do not.

I'm just sorry I can't unrec your op.

[arely staircase]

6. a chance to raise a reasonable doubt that he violated the espionage act

as is his right.

[SidDithers]

4. DU rec...nt

Sid

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. a fair trial...

you funny...

Ask Bibbey and others about fairness in the US Justice system when it comes to whistleblowers.

You should try comedy. You do have a knack for it.

[arely staircase]

9. the question is, do you think he desrves one?

nt

[G_j]

39. why wouldn't he?

of course everyone deserves a fair trial

[OilemFirchen]

40. "Bibbey"

Anyway, Binney: Not in jail, still alive. Travels freely. Speaks freely. Thinks Snowden has migrated from whistleblower to traitor.

Fantastic retort!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. One minute we're told he's a dastardly liar and anything he says cannot be true

Then we're told in the next breath that he outted critical programs that have damaged our national security.

If he lies then the programs he outted are mere fictions of his imagination and a man need not be tried for flights of fancy. When those people complaining about Snowden can actually get their complaints sorted out we can revisit this question.

[arely staircase]

10. so you don't think he deserves a a fair trial?

nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

18. Tried for what? I've been told repeatedly the spying program doesn't really exist

and Snowden is fabricating programs from whole-cloth.

[arely staircase]

19. the 2 counts of espionage he has been charged with.

shouldn't he get his chance to defend himself: question witnesses, present evidence, etc.?

[MineralMan]

11. Everyone deserves a fair trial, if charged for a crime.

However, some people might feel that he shouldn't be tried at all, but should have a parade, instead, and get a medal.

[arely staircase]

21. well i can se that

[MineralMan]

22. Just the medal for him...

[arely staircase]

23. and the parade

nt

[The Link]

12. In the case of Obama, would that be trial by drone?

If it doesn't kill you, you are innocent.

[arely staircase]

20. no, a jury of his peers in federal court

doesn't he deserve that due process?

[think]

13. And the 3 NSA whistle blowers who agree with Snowden deserve fair trials too!

[arely staircase]

15. what are they charged with?

nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Same charging list,

they had all charges dropped, in one case 24 hours before the trial was to start.

You really should do some more reading on this.

Regardless, all three had their lives destroyed.

As I said, you funny, you have a knack for comedy.


At this point I am reminded of an old Soviet era joke about blind kittens.

[think]

17. Failure to inform the public of high crimes due to following procedures which make sure

any attempt at whistle blowing is an act of futility.....

[arely staircase]

24. just exactly what crime do you imagine obama committed?

nt

[think]

25. My use of the term "high crimes" was ill used and aimed at the NSA not Obama

I am guilty of poor syntax.

But there are those that have told me the NSA and the executive branch are one and same in which case I can't accuse one part without accusing it in whole.

So I am saying that I believe there are those in the NSA who have lied before congress and broken oaths. If you wish to word wrestle me and say I then accuse Obama as he is the head of the executive branch thus the NSA so be it.

I on the other hand believe the Executive branch is what it is and the NSA is an office under that branch which although under the authority of the executive is not wholly representative there of.

Sorry for the confusion and lack of proper wording....

[arely staircase]

27. ok, what statute has the NSA violated?

nt

[think]

28. I don't know. It's classified:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/justice-department-electronic-frontier-foundation-fisa-court-opinion

And I don't know if violating the constitution is the same as violating a statute but violating the constitution would seem to carry a fair amount of weight when one is considered in violation of it....

[arely staircase]

29. so when you say "crimes" you can't really think of any actual crimes

gotcha

[think]

30. Yep. You got me.....

Violating the constitution isn't a crime.

It's just silly talk by a secret court stating that our spy organization did something illegal.....

[arely staircase]

31. what part of the constitution has been violated?

[think]

32. I repeat. The FISA court ruling on NSA violation of the constitution is CLASSIFIED

So until the laws are changed and the FISA court ruling is unclassified you are technically correct.

So you win based on a technicality which denies ANYONE the opportunity to have access to the FISA court ruling that the NSA violated the law.

Happy?

[arely staircase]

33. so to be clear, when you say crimes, you mean stuff you disagree with

not actual crimes as in things against the law.

[think]

34. bullshit

I am clearly saying the NSA violated the law based on a FISA court ruling. Violating the law is a crime.

What the fuck don't you get about that?

[arely staircase]

35. how does following a court ruling make a crime?

wouldn't the opposite be true?

[think]

36. The court specifically ruled that the NSA ALREADY broke the law.

Whether the NSA is now in accordance with the secret law is unknown since once again ALL THINGS are CLASSIFIED.

So until the laws are changed who really knows what the NSA is doing? Even our legally elected representatives in the Senate claim to be in the dark on this. Who is looking out for US?

Does this not disturb you?

[arely staircase]

37. point taken

nt

[TacoD]

26. He deserves asylum. -nt-

[RBInMaine]

38. He is a felon who needs to be in jail.