BREAKING: Snowden left Hong Kong 'legally and voluntarily', for a 'third country' - HK officials

[Fire Walk With Me]

RT ‏@RT_com

BREAKING: #Snowden left Hong Kong 'legally and voluntarily', for a 'third country' - HK officials http://on.rt.com/jqm8cb


http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/

US whistleblower Edward Snowden is en route to Moscow from Hong Kong on an Aeroflot flight, reports AFP. Washington has filed an extradition order to the Hong Kong authorities on charges of espionage, theft and conversion of government property.

A spokesperson from the Hong Kong government confirmed to press that Edward Snowden had "legally and voluntarily" left the country.

The only Aeroflot flight that arrives from Hong Kong into Moscow’s Sheremetevo airport today is at 17:05 local time (13:05 GMT).

There are reports that Moscow will not be Snowden’s final destination and that he may fly on to Ecuador or Iceland where he has allegedly applied for asylum.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW.

[Tx4obama]

1. Surely after Russia he will head on over to North Korea

[Gravitycollapse]

2. What is your beef?

[morningfog]

98. they are just doing their job.

[Bolo Boffin]

5. There's only two ways he could leave Russia to anywhere else

One: element of surprise - Russia never knows he's there. Well, that one's toast.

Two: Quid pro quo.

[Divernan]

28. So you're the back-up loyalist on the graveyard shift?

He's traveling with Wikileaks legal advisers. Guess you could call that the third way, as distinguished from the Third Way. Now that you've opened the door, as the trial judges say, to the concept of "quid pro quo", what's the quid pro quo for the loyalists who stay up into the wee hours posting to attack O's critics?

[Bolo Boffin]

29. Long DUer sharing my opinion here. So calm down.

I'd like to point out that after Snowden spilled the beans and specifics on how America's been hacking into Russian and Chinese computer networks, he's now sailing through the red tape in both countries to his final destination.

And it doesn't take any kind of loyalty to anyone to point that out. That's just the facts.

[Divernan]

33. Clarification appreciated. Do you support Snowden remaining free?

[Bolo Boffin]

38. I don't know

On the one hand, I'm glad to be talking about the NSA stuff. On the other hand, Snowden broke the law a lot. Like, a lot. And from everything I've seen, it's all turning out to be legal versions of standard police operating procedures. So I'm up in the air on it.

[Warren Stupidity]

44. "legal versions of standard police operating procedures"

there is a typo there, you left out the word "state".

"legal versions of standard police state operating procedures".

There I fixed it for you.

[Bolo Boffin]

47. Oh, you. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

41. Average people fly in and out of Hong Kong and Russia every day

You appear to have missed the news of the fall of the Soviet Union. Being able to freely enter and leave Moscow is the norm now.

"That's just the facts." No, it's a complete misunderstanding on your part of what international travel is like.

[Bolo Boffin]

42. You keep thinking that.

Snowden's not "average people" anymore.

ETA: I do know this. If Pussy Riot had done their protest in the United States, they'd gotten a fine at the most. So if Snowden moves on through Russia after giving them details on US hacking, then I'm sticking with the quid pro quo story.

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. Then it's not 'red tape', is it?

What you're saying is they'd detain him specially, because they think he's of high value to them. Kidnap him, effectively. And, conveniently for you, if Russia treats him like they do thousands of others every day, and allows him to transit, you're going to claim this shows your theory that they've extorted confidential information from him is right. You're in the conspiracy sweet spot - whatever happens, you can shows those evil Russkies are up to something.

[Bolo Boffin]

57. Mwahahaha!

Meanwhile, fuck Ron Paul, Rand Paul, and the Glenn Greenwald they rode in on.

[Babel_17]

64. Milla Jovovich recently filmed a movie in Russia

Her mom was in it as well.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1682187/

[MADem]

68. Well, she was born in Ukraine and she speaks Russian. Why is that surprising that she filmed

a movie in her old neighborhood?

[Babel_17]

96. I was agreeing that's it not unusual for Americans to travel to Russia (nt)

[MADem]

103. It's not at all unusual for Americans who were born in USSR to travel there, certainly.

And of course, there are always the odd tourists who aren't daunted by high crime rates.

But Moscow still isn't Paris or Rome as tourist destinations go.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. OK ... how is that relevant? (nt)

[Babel_17]

97. I was agreeing that's it not unusual for Americans to travel to Russia (nt)

[Divernan]

26. Had the graveyard, Johnny-on-the-spot shift, hmmmm?

You supporters are a well-organized, well-disciplined group, for sure! Someone in authority has determined Job One is being the first to respond to any anti-administration OP

[Bolo Boffin]

31. You know what? Everyone here doesn't agree with you.

Maybe you need to learn to deal with that and not throw idiotic accusations around.

[Divernan]

36. When some posters always attack critics of Obama . . .

calling them out on it is not "idiotic". I don't call them idiots - I question their values and their motivations. Do you call everyone who criticizes your political positions an idiot?

[Bolo Boffin]

40. Maybe you should stick to questioning their arguments and leave their values and motivations

out of it entirely. Because that's not your call to make. Nor is it mine.

[Divernan]

48. Au contraire!

When patterns are examined, motivations become clear. I always used to point out to my undergrad sociology students, and the students I taught in law school, never assume that anyone publishing books or articles is neutral - whether consciously or subconsciously, they have histories, points of view, values and motivations which influence their writings (posts). In this particular thread, I was not at all surprised to see a snide & preposterous remark from one particular poster speculating Snowden would head for North Korea. I wouldn't call his/her remark an "argument" since he/she offered no explanation, source or rationale for that snide remark.

[Bolo Boffin]

51. Perhaps you should read the terms of service here at DU again. n/t

[Divernan]

53. Right! Like you calling me idiotic? Is that covered?

nt

[Bolo Boffin]

55. I didn't do that. Go back and read again.

Meanwhile, I'm going to check out the Sunday show guest lineups. Maybe Peter King will stroke out on national TV? That would be terribad, wouldn't it?

ETA: Found them:

Guest lineups for the Sunday TV news shows:

ABC's "This Week" _ Gen. Keith Alexander, director of the National Security Agency; Reps. Joaquin Castro, D-Texas; Mike Kelly, R-Pa.; and Tulsi Gabbard, D-Hawaii.

NBC's "Meet the Press" _ Sens. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., and Dick Durbin, D-Ill.; Reps. Loretta Sanchez, D-Calif., and Mike Rogers, R-Mich.

CBS' "Face the Nation" _ Sens. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., Bob Corker, R-Tenn., and Jeff Sessions, R-Ala.

CNN's "State of the Union" _ Sens. Rand Paul, R-Ky., and Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.

"Fox News Sunday" _ Sens. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., and Mike Lee, R-Utah; Gabriel Gomez, Republican nominee for Senate in Massachusetts.

Well, no fun with Peter King today. Rand Paul's going to be really interesting to watch, though, the weasely little fuckwad.

[Divernan]

60. You said I posted an "idiotic accusation".

And I quote:
Maybe you need to learn to deal with that and not throw idiotic accusations around.

[Bolo Boffin]

70. And it was. n/t

[cali]

49. that's ridiculous.

people have differing opinion, doesn't mean that they're part of some posse. deal with it.

[Tx4obama]

105. Your comment is way off the mark and inappropriate.

I am only just a individual DUer like the majority of other DUers here that post what ever the hell they want to post.

"You supporters" ??? What the hell is that supposed to mean? You don't support the Democratic Party? Or our president?

"Someone in authority" telling us DUers what to post and where ???

LOL - sober up!

[SkyDaddy7]

50. He might as well make the rounds, huh?

Snowden the Whistle Blower DIED the second he began sharing classified info with the Chinese that had NOTHING to do with looking out for the American people as he claimed was his motivating reason...And Snowden the trader Chinese spy was born!!

Now, I can only imagine what info he will be giving the Russians...Even if he gave the Russians the Blue Prints for our stealth fighter he would still have his defenders here on DU. Which really is sad.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Icelandair flies out of Moscow

LAN Ecuador airlines does not but does have a flight from Madrid.


Aeroflot flies to Iceland and Ecuador

Others might have him on a no fly list.

[MADem]

52. Iceland's new leader is center right. He isn't going there. nt

[Bolo Boffin]

4. Wikileaks just tweeted they helped Snowden get passage to "a democratic country"

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/348724514135347200

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. I'm betting Ecuador then

but Iceland is still possible.

[Bolo Boffin]

8. Does Aeroflot fly direct from Moscow to Ecuador?

Genuinely don't know.

[Ichingcarpenter]

10. I believe they do

Russians like South America
as a travel destination

[DFW]

61. Probably not a nonstop flight

But you can always change planes in Venezuela or Cuba, and be there the evening of the day you left if your flight from Moscow leaves early enough. It's a long day, no matter which route you take.

*on second edit--just out of curiosity, I checked a travel site, and most routes from Moscow to Quito have stopovers in either the USA, the Netherlands, Spain, Canada or the UK. None of the above are likely to spare someone on the run from US justice from getting snatched. Still, I'm sure the Russians have nonstop flights to Cuba and/or Venezuela--they might just not run at convenient times for any easy transfer to Quito. After all, they don't schedule their flights with Moscow-based fugitives from the Justice Department in mind (now watch me get a visit for even having googled the route! LOL).

[Art_from_Ark]

11. That seems like a very long haul for a direct flight

In fact, there appear to be no direct flights. Most Aeroflot flights to Ecuador seem to be routed through New York or Miami, with one flight that stops at Punta Cana (Dominican Republic) and Bogota (Colombia) before arriving in Quito.

http://www.edreams.es/ofertas/vuelos/aerolinea/SU/aeroflot-russian/SVO/moscu/UIO/quito/

[Bolo Boffin]

12. Someone on Twitter said (OK, so there's that) he's heading to Caracas via Cuba.

https://twitter.com/leonidragozin/status/348729965841358848

No idea how they would know.

And from Business Insider, May 2012:

http://www.businessinsider.com/if-you-had-to-disappear-where-would-you-go-2012-3

Why Venezuela is where to avoid the US... assuming Snowden can get there.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Apparently a Private Plane from Moscow

according to Wikileaks

[cali]

6. good.

[JI7]

9. CCTV is reporting on this right now

[Hissyspit]

13. @wikileaks FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by

WikiLeaks ‏@wikileaks 19s
FLASH: Mr. Snowden is currently over Russian airspace accompanied by WikiLeaks legal advisors.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. Thanks for the updates

the story is moving quite fast
So the lawyers had to be on the Aeroflot flight. out of Hong Kong

[Hissyspit]

16. Wikileaks has had the "Wikileaks plane" waiting

for several days, I believe.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/23/edward-snowden-leaves-hong-kong-moscow?CMP=twt_fd

The newspaper claimed he took off from the airport at 10.55am on flight SU213 on Sunday morning and was due to arrive at Moscow's Shermetyevo International Airport at 5.15pm.

It added that the Russian embassy in Beijing would neither confirm nor deny he was on a flight to Moscow and the Russian consulate in Hong Kong declined to comment.

Dmitry Peskov, spokesman for Russian president Vladimir Putin, said: "I don't [know if he's planning to stay in Moscow]. I heard about the potential [arrival] from the press. I know nothing."

On whether Moscow would still consider a request for asylum from Snowden: "Every application is considered so it's standard procedure … We are not tracing his movements and I know nothing."

US authorities could not be reached for comment immediately.

WikiLeaks said on its Twitter feed that it had "assisted Mr Snowden's political asylum in a democratic country, travel papers and safe exit from Hong Kong".

On Friday, an Icelandic businessman linked to WikiLeaks told Reuters he had prepared a private plane for Snowden's use if the government was willing to give him asylum.

"A private jet is in place in China and we could fly Snowden over tomorrow if we get positive reaction from the interior ministry. We need to get confirmation of asylum and that he will not be extradited to the US. We would most want him to get a citizenship as well," said Olafur Vignir Sigurvinsson, a director of DataCell, which processed payments for WikiLeaks.

[Bolo Boffin]

17. That's if he's going to Iceland.

If it's Venezuela or Ecuador? Well, I guess they've got something set up.

[Hissyspit]

18. 13 MINUTES AGO Snowden has 'Moscow to Cuba plane ticket' There is a ticket in Edward Snowden's name

13 MINUTES AGO
Snowden has 'Moscow to Cuba plane ticket'
There is a ticket in Edward Snowden's name for a Moscow to Cuba flight, according to news agency Interfax citing a source at Russian airline Aeroflot.

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-06-21/gchq-tapped-data-cables/

[Bolo Boffin]

19. Russian State TV is saying from Cuba to Venezuela.

Hence, Wikileaks' "democratic country."

https://twitter.com/NewsOnTheMin/status/348736968064118784

[DLevine]

20. I wish him the best.

He wouldn't get anything remotely resembling justice if he came back here. What happened to Bradley Manning was a disgrace. If anyone needs to be "brought to justice" it's Bush & Cheney for war crimes.

[fasttense]

24. Exactly my thoughts too

America loves to prosecute whistle blowers, but rich corrupt war criminals, banksters who take down the world economy with ponzi schemes, torturers and those who authorize torture not so much er... not at all.

[Hissyspit]

21. 13:36 SNOWDEN'S ULTIMATE DESTINATION IS VENEZUELA WHERE HE WILL FLY TO FROM MOSCOW WITH STOPOVER IN

Alexi Mostrous ‏@AlexiMostrous 3m
Interfax reporting that #Snowden's ultimate destination is Venezuela (h/t @NomDePlume9) http://www.interfax.com/news.asp

[jsr]

80. Good choice

I hope they'll protect him there too.

[DCBob]

82. Yes, Venezuela, land of the free, where they certainly never abuse personal civil liberties.

[Bolo Boffin]

22. There's a report that Snowden has just landed in Moscow.

And that the police there have no plans to hold him.

[Hissyspit]

23. Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 1m The fact that a person flies to City X

Glenn Greenwald ‏@ggreenwald 1m
The fact that a person flies to City X does not mean that is their intended ultimate destination

[Hissyspit]

25. @RT_com 8m UPDATE: #Snowden to take SU150 flight to Havana tomorrow, then flies to Caracas with

RT ‏@RT_com 8m
UPDATE: #Snowden to take SU150 flight to Havana tomorrow, then flies to Caracas with local airline via @ITARTASS_news http://on.rt.com/jqm8cb

[magellan]

27. I wish they wouldn't announce his flight plans

All I'm thinking now is Luis Posada Carriles. I'm to the point where I wouldn't put it past them.

[Divernan]

30. Partcularly after Michael Hastings' "accident".

[magellan]

37. I don't know what to make of that

...but it sure does reek to high heaven.

[Bolo Boffin]

32. I just saw a report Snowden's got several tickets out of Moscow.

Which makes sense.

[magellan]

35. Good. And if they can avoid putting his name on a passenger list

...that would be better.

I'm still hoping they sneak him out via private jet.

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. Several Tickets?

well that may confuse some on his final destination.

I wonder if the private plane will ultimately be used?

[Monkie]

75. its probably all smokescreen and disinfo to throw of the $80 billion a year contractors

i doubt he will fly over international airspace to south-america to a country the US has a history of sending the CIA to support right wing coups when he can just drive to any country in the EU without using a passport once he has crossed the russian border to poland.

[magellan]

95. I hope so

He really needs to get himself well and truly lost! And I wish him nothing but the best. He's sacrificed his own security, for life, to get this info out to the rest of us. That's nothing to scoff at. Though some will of course.

[East Coast Pirate]

34. Run, Eddie, run!

[darkangel218]

43. [phone] x

[xchrom]

45. excellnt

[darkangel218]

46. At least one bit if good news after such a crappy night that i had

[MADem]

54. ABC is reporting that he leaves for Cuba TOMORROW....

Which will give him plenty of time to brief Pootie Poot's pals....

[darkangel218]

58. And makes you think he will do that?

[MADem]

59. Because you don't get something for nothing. nt

[darkangel218]

62. BS. he already told what he had to say.

Hes not staying in Russia, just passing through.

[MADem]

67. He's staying overnight. He doesn't leave until tomorrow afternoon.

Surely he's got something in those four laptops for Pootie Poot and pals, after they were so nice to route him through their buddies in Cuba...?

[darkangel218]

71. OMG!!!

[Sgent]

102. Not really

he's talked about the overall scope and type of programs, but kept the method and sources hidden -- out of a sense of loyalty to the US.

If he starts giving a foreign power detailed descriptions of how we intercept (not just the fact that we do), back doors we might have, etc. I would personally view that as a much worse offense.

[cali]

63. another univeral "truth" that isn't.

Maybe Putin just enjoys tweaking the nose of the U.S. He's certainly provided evidence of that in the past.

[MADem]

66. Well, whatever you want to think, go on and think that. Quid pro quo makes sense to me. nt

[randome]

65. I can predict Snowden's statement upon landing in Russia.

"I'm not trying to hide from justice here."

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[darkangel218]

72. So let me get this

You would've rather had Snowden never say a word about the NSA and secret spying/recording programs? You would rather live in a lie than know the truth?? Is that what freedom means to you?

[randome]

77. I will believe anything Mr. Snowden says if he provides evidence.

His resume was a lie.

He said he "saw things" but he won't say what they were.

He says the NSA can watch our thoughts form as we type.

He said the NSA is downloading the Internet on a daily basis.

He said they have 'direct access' to all the world's Internet providers and all those providers say that's bullshit.

He said, “I am not here to hide from justice" from his undisclosed location in Hong Kong.

The 4 Bush Era whistleblowers say he crossed the line into traitorous activities.

Now tell me, other than providing a legal warrant about phone metadata, why would anyone in their right mind trust this guy?

He has provided not a single scrap of evidence about his outrageous claims.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Rise Rebel Resist]

94. LOL when did you become some impartial observer

on this topic.

[randome]

104. Since the Snowden Saga began.

Just because I want to see evidence of his ridiculous claims -and why his resume appears to be forged- doesn't mean I'm against him and rooting for the NSA.

I want the truth.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Warren Stupidity]

79. that would be an accurate statement. See Bradley Manning.

Or for example the 86 "cleared of all charges and indefinitely detained" persons in guantanamo currently being tortured for refusing to eat.

[randome]

81. The judge said Manning's treatment was 'excessive'.

No one deserves excessive treatment but Manning betrayed his oath and he deserves to go to prison for it.

You got me on Guantanamo. That place should have been shut down a long time ago. It has nothing to do with Snowden.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[Warren Stupidity]

85. "excessive" it was torture. He should be released on that malfeasance alone.

but Snowden has no expectation of anything except having the book thrown at him - see for example aaron schwartz. He will be used as an example to other potential whistle blowers - keep your fucking mouths shut or this will be you.

You are either ok with that or you are not. I'm not ok with it.

[randome]

86. If you want to see facts, don't discard the ones you disagree with.

I'll take the presiding judge's opinion over yours until I see evidence to think differently.

Manning was also on suicide watch. No matter what you think of his motives, you surely agree he had some emotional problems, having punched his commanding officer and being found curled up on the floor in a fetal position after having carved the words 'I want' into a chair.

No one killed Aaron Swartz but Aaron Swartz. It sounds like LE was overzealous in their prosecution of him but that doesn't make them responsible for someone deciding to throw his life away.

You have two emotionally unbalanced individuals as evidence that Snowden doesn't need to show us evidence of his claims.

I don't get the connection.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[99Forever]

73. Sweet.

That's gonna bunch up a lot True Believers undies this morning.

Bwahahahahahahah.

No kangaroo court for the authoritarian swine.

[jsr]

83. No kidding

Snowden is not as dumb as they thought.

[bobduca]

101. All of their Torture/Rendition Fantasies Thwarted!

[Catherina]

74. Godspeed Mr Snowden n/t

[jsr]

76. So does that make him a Chinese spy or a Russian spy?

[DCBob]

78. I suspect its Venezuela.

[Bolo Boffin]

84. Wikileaks just tweeted that Snowden is landing in Moscow soon.

And the press is there to meet him.

And someone else thinks his flight to Havana will pass through US airspace. Maybe the other passengers should think about getting aboard if they don't want a detour to an American airport courtesy of the Air Force.

[Catherina]

87. Ecuador's ambassador to Russia has just arrived at airport. Could be meeting Snowden

UPDATE: Ecuador's diplomats arrive at airport where #Snowden has landed



http://rt.com/on-air/

[darkangel218]

89. Im.so.happy!! x

[Catherina]

90. Me too :)

I'm betting on Ecuador. The US hasn't had as much success get an opposition movement off the ground there and its leftist President Rafael Correa has a 90% Public Approval Rating.

I'm doing a happy dance with you

PS. I can't wait to hear what Snowden has to say about NSA activities against the ALBA countries, especially Venezuela. I expect information about hacking into their electrical grid to cause blackouts.

I wish Edward Snowden a long and happy life.

[Zorra]

88. The 1% will hunt him down and beat him like a runaway plantation field slave

if they find him.

More likely they will simply assassinate him to avoid an ongoing media mess.

[Catherina]

91. And the same people who worshipped *the law*

And the same people who worshiped *the law*, oooh the law, will eagerly cooperate. There's a Jew! There's a runaway slave!

[Catherina]

92. Snowden has been examined by doctor from Ecuador embassy at Moscow airport

#Snowden has been examined by doctor from Ecuador embassy at Moscow airport - RT source http://rt.com/news/snowden-fly-moscow-aeroflot-125/

[Catherina]

93. Sen. Chuck Schumer Tears Into Russian Government For ‘Aiding’ NSA Leaker

Senator Tears Into Russian Government For ‘Aiding’ NSA Leaker

By Annie-Rose Strasser on Jun 23, 2013 at 10:01 am

Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) went on a furious tirade against Russian President Vladimir Putin on Sunday, just as the airplane of Edward Snowden, the leaker of top-secret National Security Administration, landed in Moscow.

News broke overnight Hong Kong officials had allowed Snowden to exit the country, and that the leaker was en route to Russia. And though some reports indicate that Snowden will only use Moscow as a hub to travel potentially to Cuba, and then on to Venezuela, Schumer appeared certain that Putin had cleared the leaker — who politicians have largely labeled treasonous — for passage through Russia. Schumer tore into Putin for what he considers a growing track record of actions that go against American interests:

SCHUMER: What’s infuriating here is Prime Minister Putin of Russia aiding and abetting Snowden’s escape. The bottom line is very simple. Allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways, and Putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the United States, whether it is Syria, Iran, and now, of course, with Snowden. That’s not how allies should treat one another, and I think it will have serious consequences for the United States-Russia relationship. [...]

CROWLEY: And just could you tell me a couple of what those — what serious consequences?

SCHUMER: Well, who knows? We have all kinds of relationships with Russia, and in some ways it works out pretty well. We’re trying to mutually reduce the number of nuclear arms that each country has. But there are many different kinds of relationships that are political, economic. And I don’t think we can shrug our shoulders and say this is how Putin is.

Reports indicated that Snowden, upon landing, was not in possession of a visa to enter Russia. This led Schumer to point out, “something at this level in a state-controlled country… the minute Aeroflot got the notification he would be coming, I believe that Putin, it’s almost certain he knew, and it’s likely he approved it.”

Should he go on to Venezuela, Snowden will likely continue to wreak diplomatic havoc.

...

http://thinkprogress.org/security/2013/06/23/2199751/schumer-putin-snowden-nsa/?mobile=nc

[xiamiam]

100. wow.incredible watching this..be safe Mr Snowden..nt