There's something weird about this Pope Francis.

[denem]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by In_The_Wind (a host of the General Discussion forum).

He han't moved into the Papal apartments. He hasn't spent one night there. He is still in the two rooms he got at a Vatican guest house, when he arrived as a cardinal to elect the next Pope. And the Vatican says he isn't moving out.

He's not doing the job, the Curia's in limbo. Formally speaking the entire administration are the pope's employee's, and he hasn't reappointed any of them; He's commissioned an Inquiry to investigate, but when it reports, no one can sacked - they haven't got their jobs back. They are still in care-taker mode

And then he snubbed the Cardinals at a concert arranged for Ratzinger, by leaving it to the last minute, when they were all seated to announce a change of plans. There was a big white chair for him and everything, in the place of honor, but he never showed. Even worse, he was less than ten meters away in a side room, apparently reviewing some reports about the said Curia.

But strangest of all, he eats with the other priests and religious at the guests house busy communal dining room.

It's almost like he's read a book or something about John Paul I or even Jesus of Nazareth: guys who suddenly ended up dead.

[Hekate]

1. "It's almost like he's read a book or something about"... St Francis of Assisi...

... or even Jesus of Nazareth.

May he live long and prosper.

Hekate

[denem]

2. Well I thought it was very impolite to wait until the Cardinals were seated before he announced

he wasn't coming to the concert. Reminds me of some story about foolish bridesmaids.

[BehindTheCurtain76]

6. He Knows

He knows the corruption and he is standing up to it. Ratzinger looks exactly like the evil emperor in Star Wars and covered up pedophilia. Lets hope this is real change.

[denem]

9. I have some (small) hopes too.

He can't do much about the pedophiles until they clean out the Curia. Don't see any change of doctrine coming about homosexuality, but he has said contraceptive methods are preferable to HIV. (Even Ratzinger left that door open in one of his books).

[Bluenorthwest]

23. So you compare him to Jesus, this rude bigoted man who speaks of gay people as

'an attack on God'. Glad you like him. Speaks much about you.

[SamReynolds]

64. Compared him to Jesus?

Does the internet have invisible ink?

Baby steps now.... baby steps.

[Hekate]

70. He's making the Curia cool their heels; bet no one has ever done that to them before

He's not doing the job, the Curia's in limbo. Formally speaking the entire administration are the pope's employee's, and he hasn't reappointed any of them; He's commissioned an Inquiry to investigate, but when it reports, no one can sacked - they haven't got their jobs back. They are still in care-taker mode

I wonder how the members of the Curia are feeling about this?

[geckosfeet]

3. I like this guy. His indifference to elitist protocol is taken as snubbing.

Too fucking bad.

[HappyMe]

4. It's called humility.

He's taking a page from St. Francis. I hope he lives a long time.

[bemildred]

5. Right, he's not a power-mad asshole. He takes his vows seriously.

And yes, that is odd.

[ReRe]

7. As Pope's go...

... I like him. Allot!

[Kablooie]

8. He's no Jeremy Irons, though.

I wonder how many of you can figure out that reference?

[ashling]

10. Aramis in Man in the Iron Mask

the Jesuit General

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. More likely the part of Pope Alexander VI, Rodrigo Borgia

in The Borgias: http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/TV/2013/06/05/The-Borgias-starring-Jeremy-Irons-to-end-after-three-seasons/UPI-93101370470157/

[ashling]

16. I must have missed that

[lapislzi]

26. :-( Borgias all fini...

So sad.

ha, ha, gotcha!

[Bluenorthwest]

30. I disagree, he IS much like Irons

Oscar-winning actor Jeremy Irons has sparked outrage by suggesting that same sex marriage could lead to incest between fathers and sons, fearing it will "debase" marital law.

In an interview with the Huffington Post the 64-year-old actor, who stated that he didn’t “have a strong feeling either way” on the subject, mused: “Could a father not marry his son?”

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jeremy-irons-makes-bizarre-remarks-comparing-gay-marriage-to-incest-between-fathers-and-sons-8559836.html

Although he rarely attends services, Irons is Catholic and his wife is very much a church goer.
His views and Francis views are the same views, for Irons gets his views from the Church as do those in this thread who 'just love' Francis, who hates gay people.

[tavernier]

60. Seriously?

I purchased Showtime for the sole purpose of watching Mr. Irons play that role, and it was well worth it. A couple of years ago my girlfriend who lives in London biped into him on the street. She knew I was a huge fan so she asked for an autograph for me. He said to her, "Why doesn't she ask herself?" (Apparently thinking I was one of the girls she was with.) My friend told him I was in the USA. So he wrote on the paper, "Lily, Where Are You??!! Jeremy Irons"
😄

[tavernier]

61. Biped is bumped

Honest, I'm not a republican... Auto correct just loves to choose my words on iPhone

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. Not going to the concert was a strange move, since everyone thinks he's lying about the reason

He claimed an "urgent commitment that cannot be postponed". But the reports are he was doing some paperwork. So it seems he lied - and knew that everyone would know he was lying. He's sending a message to someone - and it is, in papal terms, "fuck you" - popes don't lie openly unless they have a good reason.

It's not that he won't do bits of PR for the church - look at the photo-op with the Harley-Davidson company. So what did he have against this particular concert? A snub of whoever organised it?

[rpannier]

15. Maybe the paperwork came from one of the investigation teams

Don't want that to go up in smoke

[Berlum]

18. Yes. Precisely. The OP says he was reviewing the report

Who know what evil lurks in the bowels of the Vatican hierarchy?

[starroute]

67. Concerts are elitist, Harleys are populist

That's how I read it. It's not a snub -- it's a message about wealth and privilege.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Oh yeah, Harley-Davidsons are dirt cheap

They're just what the typical Roman rides round the city, eh? Far better to turn up to an event organised by a for-profit American company to get it some worldwide free publicity, than a concert by the orchestra of the state-run TV channel. That's telling people what side of wealth and privilege you're on, isn't it?

[JustAnotherGen]

13. I like the guy

Yep - I said it. Guy. Because that's what he is. A normal everyday guy who isn't full of himself.

[WinkyDink]

14. Some of the grammar makes the post hard to understand. "No one can sacked..."?

[penndragon69]

17. Sounds like he is more down to earth

than any of the previous "more righteous" pontiffs.

He may be a good man after all.

[truebluegreen]

19. How did he get elected?

Must have been some major panicking going on behind the scenes these last years. Very odd.

[CK_John]

20. I think this pope falls into the group that I label "fact finders" as opposed to "decision makers".

[Hekate]

71. Some like to amass all the facts they can ...

... before bringing down the judge's hammer.

[Coyotl]

21. Weird is a weird word

[MADem]

22. He's a people person, apparently....

He has told a friend that he likes being in daily contact with ordinary people, does not want to be isolated and enjoys sitting down to meals with visiting clergy.
The Pope, 76, who on first seeing the papal apartments reportedly exclaimed "But there is room here for 300 people!" hinted that the arrangement may be permanent.
The Pope broke with Vatican tradition when he decided, after being elected on March 13 during a secret conclave of cardinals, not to live in the apostolic apartments.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/the-pope/10086876/Pope-Francis-shunned-official-papal-apartments-to-live-normal-life.html

[Bluenorthwest]

31. A Straight people's person...

his many diatribes attacking gay people make it clear that he holds us in contempt. Do you see Paula Deen as a 'people person'? I don't.

[MADem]

33. Everywhere I go, there you are!

I see Paula Deen as a racist.

Have a nice day, y'all!

[theHandpuppet]

36. So I assume you also see the Pope as a homophobe and misogynist?

Just wondering.

[MADem]

41. I see the entire Hierarchy as a failed institution.

Not just the Pope, but the entire organization, cardinals, bishops, priests, even the nuns who don't say "Fuck this shit," down the secretaries in the parish offices and the little old ladies who sweep the cathedrals and polish the pews, thinking they are buying their way into heaven.

It's racist, sexist, homophobic, and didactic. It emphasizes the wrong teachings, and is more into "thou shalt not" than "suffer the little children..."

It needs a top-to-bottom makeover. I think the best thing they could, for starters, do is remove the gender and celibacy requirements from the priesthood, and acknowledge that homosexuality is simply a, dare I say "God given" element in the vast tapestry of the human condition. That would probably generate 'ground-up' change. Next, they need to work on the "money" part of the equation. Too much money is being spent on the wrong stuff.

If anyone wants to make me Pope, I could fix it in a jiffy--I have lots of leadership experience.

[Bluenorthwest]

40. Gee we are both on DU! Is arch implication part of your catechism? Apparently.

Can you explain the difference between the one bigot and the other? You support one, not the other. Is Paula not out front enough for you? You like Francis with his full tilt attack mode better?
They are the same.

[MADem]

42. Has any one ever told you that you shouldn't make assumptions about people?

You do that--a lot. It's a rather ugly trait.

You do it about me (you've done it several times in the last couple of days, in fact) and you've not been right, once.

I don't know why you are looking for a fight with me. I suggest you get a life instead. You're not very good at the whole "goading and baiting" thing--I see you coming a mile away.

My views on the church are found elsewhere in this thread. Go look for them if you really give a shit about my opinion....though I think what you'd prefer is a keyboard fight.

You'll have to find that elsewhere. Do have a nice day, now.

[Bluenorthwest]

44. Keep your lectures to yourself, I don't give a shit what you 'think'or say

You called a bigot a 'people person'. I called you on that. He says I am an attack on God, you say he's a 'people person'.
You do not have impunity to run about praising bigots without others making note of that fact.
I'm sure you see all manner of flaws in me an others, that's why you dig Francis, that's his whole gig, preaching that others are sinnnnnnners........
I will respond to any post that claims a bigot is a 'people person'. And you bullying will not stop me.
So perhaps think about what you are typing if you don't want to hear about how vile it is to read such stuff.
There is a religion forum, or a hate group group or some area at DU reserved for this shit. It needs to remain there. In GD you will hear the opinions of others. Deal with it. You are not my keeper, nor my superior.

[MADem]

48. If you really didn't "give a shit" you wouldn't continually seek me out -- as you do -- and engage

me with confrontational invective.

But that's just what you do.

Now you're trying to backtrack by inventing your own description of what constitutes a "people person." Here's a clue--a "people person" is someone who likes being around people. It doesn't mean they're necessarily nice, or good, or kind, or right.

I'm glad I'm not your keeper--that would a be a shitty job, because you have demonstrated, by the number of times you've sought me out to confront me on this board with harsh, false accusations and rude language, that you're not very nice at all.

If you want to cry about this thread being in the wrong place, don't cry to me--alert on the OP and be done with it. And have a nice day.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. Utter bullshit, your ego is huge, no one seeks you out. You posted that a bigot is a people

person. I will always point out such bullshit when anyone types it up. Hates minorities, you call him a people person. Do not imagine you have impunity to do so.
All of your arch implications and inferences are just tactics to avoid the actual subject- the Pope and his bigotry. I am not the subject, nor are you my owner, keeper or superior.
Rave on. You dig a bigot, I dig a pony.

[MADem]

58. You're doing it again--seeking me out, engaging in baseless attacks and personal insults.

You keep doing this, I'm going to keep pointing it out. Every one of your posts directed at me tell a very clear, very obvious story, and they don't make you look very good at all.

There's a word for what you are doing.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go grab a half dozen people and take them to vote for Ed Markey. You keep spreading that sunshine, now!

[panzerfaust]

24. Oh come on. What can be weird about the leader of a misogynist organization who wears dresses?

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Perspective for those of you in thrall to this vicious hate monger Paula Deen with Prada

On LGBT rights:
“Let’s not be naïve, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”

This is what he said about gay parents. If you know any, OP, call them up and tell them this, just so you are an honest person:
“At stake are the lives of many children who will be discriminated against in advance, and deprived of their human development given by a father and a mother and willed by God. At stake is the total rejection of God’s law engraved in our hearts.”

He's your Pope, you all love him so. Know that we do not forget, that's all.

http://www.salon.com/2013/03/14/pope_francis_on_gay_rights_his_5_worst_quotes/

[theHandpuppet]

35. Oh, some of us here remember all right...

... and are appalled. Thanks for speaking out. As a woman and a member of the LGBT community, there are times when I read these Pope-worshipping threads and feel as if I'm either invisible or have wandered onto the wrong forum.

[Jarla]

37. Were there any candidates for Pope who are more supportive of LGBT rights?

[Bluenorthwest]

38. And that matters how? How would I know? They are a hate club, I'm not in it.

Let me ask you this. Do you coo and cheer for some Republican in office because that Republican is the best one you could think of? 'We love Newt because he's not Todd Akin!'? Is that how you run your own ethics?
I think they should have elected Stephen Colbert. Any Catholic can be elected. Or Bono, how's that? The OP. I'd nominate the OP. Caroline Kennedy likes to be appointed to things, she's Catholic.

[Jarla]

45. I guess my feelings on the matter are that...

I am not Catholic. I have absolutely no say in whom is selected to be Pope.

I disagree with many of the official beliefs and policies of the Catholic Church.

Nevertheless, I know that the Catholic Church still has a lot of influence in some parts of the world.

So while it's unlikely that you'll find me cheer-leading for the current Pope, I am at least relieved that this one wasn't a member of the Hitler Youth.

[SteveG]

28. Since he announced that he would no live in the Papal apartments

I've been thinking that he understands that he can not allow himself to be isolated by the Curia, if he wants to bring real reform to the Church. I have never believed that John Paul I, died from natural causes. It is quite clear that the Vatican Hierarchy is not happy, and this is a very good thing.

[forestpath]

29. He's the head of an anti-woman, anti-gay organization full

of coddled pedophiles.

Gee, what's not to love??

[theHandpuppet]

34. +1

Not just a figurehead either, but an actively crusading anti-LGBT, anti-woman bigot who supports the oppression of millions of human beings around the world.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. They all LOVE him....

then they claim to be pro choice and not bigoted against gays. They just happen to LOVE a cleric that is anti choice and libels gay people as a full time job.

[denem]

43. Speaking of hypocrisy I presume you are a US citizen?

You know that land of the free that still a sodomy on the books as a criminal offence in 14 states until 2003 when the SCOTUS ruled them unconstitutional.

In Italy, there have been no laws against private, adult and consensual homosexual relations since 1890.

[Bluenorthwest]

46. What? You are promoting a bigoted religious figure you follow by choice.

Why? You make OP's boosting a bigoted homophobic anti choice conservative. How is that about me?
This is about you and your Francis bigot. So mean to post these things in GD. A calloused and hateful action. There is a place on DU for your dogmatic disussions of how awful gay people are. Do them there. Why must you throw this hate monger in our faces? What do you gain by doing that? Why not keep your religious threads away from those who are attacked by that religion?
What do you gain by hurting others with your boosterism of bigots?

[denem]

49. If you want bigoted homophobia look no further than the distinctively American denominations

clustered under the name of the Southern Baptist conference, or perhaps that most American of all religions, the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, that so enamoured California less than 5 years ago. Or how about the good Rev. McClurkin?

[Bluenorthwest]

50. They are all corrupt apostate and hate filled. I've spoken at length on DU about McClurkin

so a fucking search. Prop 8 was LDS and RCC money. Twins. But 'Johnny does it too' does not excuse what you do. The RCC is not redeemed by the equal evil in counterpart Protestant Churches. To suggest that it is, I offer to you, is the key failure in your reasoning.
Why you are lecturing me about other religions I do not know. It is you who is into a religion, Phelps or the Pope, same thing. It is the same thing.
You get no argument from me that those other groups are just as bad, but I do not see you posting about how great those other groups are. RCC is the subject of YOUR OP, is it not?

[denem]

52. I am saying that as a citizen of the United States

a nation that criminalised homosexuality less than ten years ago, that still does not have basic protections against discrimination based on sexual orientation, with history of gay lynchings as long as day, your righteous indignation rings a bit hollow.

[Bluenorthwest]

55. I am a victim of US laws against me. You are claiming that it is hypocrisy on my part to

oppose bigotry against my own kind because some of your kind in the US are as bad as Francis?
Do you think that it was hypocrisy to oppose slavery when it was legal? Frederick Douglass was a hypocrite? His indignation was hollow?
Just trying to follow your 'thinking' here. Can you be more specific?

[denem]

57. I am thinking this. Italy, the home of the Roman church

has had a better record on LGBT rights than the United States for more than a century.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. Here is some fact for you. Fascist Italy declared homosexuality to be a social disease.

Seventy-five years ago in Fascist Italy, a group of gay men were labelled "degenerate", expelled from their homes and interned on an island. They were held under a prison regime - but some found life in the country's first openly gay community a liberating experience.

Every summer, tourists are drawn to the beauty of a tiny string of rocky islands in the Adriatic.

But just recently a group of visitors came to the Tremiti archipelago not so much to enjoy the peace and calm of this remote place as to remember.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22856586

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Vatican is soverign, it is not Italy. Which passport do you carry?

It is very interesting that you think Fascist Italy had no anti gay laws, it suggests you have very odd views of history that others might want to fact check.

[denem]

62. The vatican is not sovereign in matters of criminal law.

I carry an Australian passport. I was born in Sydney. While the Australian government was taking extraordinary steps against HIV/AIDS in the '80s, I was living in San Francisco, a scene of utter devastation, hearing various American denominations talking about a Gay Plague.

[Bluenorthwest]

65. Your view of history is not supported by facts. RCC was as horrific as the Baptists during

early AIDS crisis in the US, in Australia, in Europe which trailed us both in awareness. They were doing horrible things. The RCC was one of the denominations attacking gay people in the 80's. There were a handful of individual congregations that were righteous then, no denomination can do anything but pray for mercy, none did good. It was many years into the horror that any Catholic group so much as stopped blaming the sick for their own illnesses. Sorry, that's the case. Some UCC churches, a few Methodist, some independent type churches were were early and very brave allies. No denomination gets any credit at all, none.
There are time lines for all of this, so you need to step fucking lively with the crap you are vending here.

[denem]

66. The best thing I can say is

that as a citizen of the United States, which has such a shameful record on LGBT rights, when you talk about 'vicious hate-mongering'. you know what you are talking about.

[theHandpuppet]

53. Oh? You've seen threads here praising the Rev. McClurkin?

Pray tell, please point me in the direction of all those DU threads praising hate-filled leaders of other denominations.

[forestpath]

47. I know. It's bizarre to see so many fans of a homophobic, misogynistic priest

- like it matters where he sits! He's gonna be the same bigot anywhere.

[AngryAmish]

32. Father Rodrigo Bendrito

[Bluenorthwest]

54. These threads that praise homophobes are hurtful.

Is there a reason the religious threads could not remain in religion forums and not be rubbed in the face of Francis's victims?
He libels my family, I come to DU and you praise him for that. Or in spite of that? Hard to tell.
Why not do this among yourselves as religious folks?

[diabeticman]

56. My wife wondered if HE actually was doing the job or IF he was just put in for show

[kentauros]

68. Maybe that's why he blessed all those Harley motorcyclists!

[In_The_Wind]

72. Locking

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