On OWS and the Democratic Party

[nadinbrzezinski]

Folks who hate OWS might be in for a surprise on this one. But be careful what you hate or who you hate.

Over the course of the weekend I covered the California Democratic Convention for a local paper. I worked hard to find any who did not like OWS. In fact, all I found were supporters, and in more than a few cases CREDENTIALED DELEGATES who are also very active in Occupy activities.

Not only that, the themes of OWS were all over in speeches and talks by very powerful members of the Democratic Party. These include the Minority Leader, the future head of Finance, if they flip the House, and Senator Feinstein... as well as the Chairman of the State Party.

At least ONE of the State Parties is quite supportive...

Just an observation that I know I will be looking for at the NATIONAL convention. I will be looking for obvious support for OWS.

Quite frankly I was looking forwards to people who are opposed to OWS at least in methods... and did not find them, and not for lack of trying. As to members of Occupy, they made no secret about it.

This is not a news story yet, since I'd love, not going to happen, to get myself into OTHER state conventions to see if this is just my state or a national trend. I know the party wanted to take over OWS, well at least here, it looks like OWS is pretty much the grassroots.

[WingDinger]

1. I was at a moveon party, viewing Inside Job, and asked about cooperation between the two.

I was told that Moveon, supports Occupy, but cannot coordinate, as they have no leaders. And I suspect no official coordination, as that would open up Moveon to the things the status quo would like to do to Occupy leaders.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. They have no leaders and they have leaders

it is hard to understand. But a soft leadership is emerging.

As to official coordination... I also suspect depends where. Here... major actions where everybody is involved ARE coordinated. And I mean Moveon, OSD and Labor.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. What if you don't OWS but just want it to turn activism into practical political results?

Oh, and stop the silly antics because its PR death?

I don't see why that's framed as "hating." Constructive criticism is constructive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Tell me why were pretty active members of Occupy inside the hall

as CREDENTIALED DELEGATES? You understand this right? You understand what I wrote right?

You still believe that is not political?

Serious question, to which I expect a non serious answer.

[MineralMan]

7. Why would there not be?

Many people active in the Occupy movement are also active in Democratic politics. It's not surprising that some delegates are also involved. Being a delegate to a state convention isn't such a difficult thing in most states. Anyone with a strong history of working within the party is very likely to be selected as a state delegate. Every time I've been to the Occupy gatherings in Minneapolis, I've seen people I know from the DFL organization.

There's a very good chance that I'll be a delegate at the Minnesota DFL state convention. I could have been in 2010, but could not afford to travel and stay in Duluth that year for three days. So, I didn't put myself forward as a delegate. This year, the convention is in Rochester, and I know someone I can stay with there, so I will put my name forward at the Congressional District Convention, where I will be a delegate, as I was in 2010. I've been around in MN DFL politics long enough now to be recognizable and have done good work in my own precinct. So, there's a good chance of my becoming a delegate.

So, in California, similar mechanisms go into selecting delegates. That's why I'm not at all surprised that some delegates were also involved in the Occupy movement.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

8. "Serious question, to which I expect a non serious answer."

Learn to fact-check a simple article about posers pretending to be Special Forces before you talk-down to others.

For months OWSers bragged about NOT being part of the establishment political process. One post does not suddenly obviate the concerns of a large group of fair-minded people who wanted a more effective movement. Those of us who counseled political participation were derided, belittled and pushed away -- just like the OP.

We were called haters and still are. Yet, here's the OP, not only calling us haters but admitting the so-called haters were right all along about the value and effectiveness of political participation. Is there is hint of conciliation or even simple decency to stop calling names to people who gave good advice? No. It's all about your ego.

When you have an ego that has the size and substance of the Hindenburgh don't act surprised if there is a similar end result.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Since I did apologize and you have no reason

to accept it, welcome to my ignore list.

When Judith Miller apologizes for a war that has cost 5K+ KIA, 40K WIA and 1 million vets who approached the VA over the last ten years wake me up.

I cost zero lives and still apologized.

Good bye.

(For an ego the size of the Hindenburg, I would say apologizing would not happen)

As to the stats I just gave you, take it up with Congressman Filner or the VA, or both.

Goodbye.

Enjoy your hate.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. The only hate is in the incessant demeaning tones you use to belittle people

How about apologizing to the people you accused of being haters because they pleaded with OWS to not waste its activist capital and join actual political processes. Supposedly that's what the OP is about. Yet, you insult the people who wanted that in the first place.

[greytdemocrat]

39. Don't question the Nadin.

Haven't you all learned that yet???

[mdmc]

9. Ows is fine when doing the dnc thing

But to take to the streets is not for adults..

[MineralMan]

12. The fact that people active in Occupy

are at the state conventions is important, but not surprising. Those are the people who are doing both things, being active in the Occupy movement and in their Democratic organization. They are working in ways that actually affect outcomes. I know several people in my district DFL party organization who are also active in the Occupy movement. Some of them will be at our stated convention, too.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

26. Well, supposedly I'm on ignore now

Which means whatever she writes I can respond to unchallenged. For someone who fancies their own lordly intelligence and cleverness it seems like a poor way to manage personal narratives.

I also submit I did provide a serious answer but there was no admittance of such on her part let alone a serious rejoinder, only the safe sanctuary of the ignore button. Perhaps IGNORE-ance really is bliss.

[zappaman]

38. Welcome to the Iggy list! nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

68. Didn't she, at one time, vow to stop using the Ignorance button? n/t

[zappaman]

78. That's just one

of many broken promises...

[sufrommich]

28. Because they're democrats? nt

[kctim]

5. Don't see how this can be a national trend

when OWS itself isn't a national trend.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. You still do not undertand that OWS is in pretty much

every major city. And that is part of the problem. Most people who have NOT been following the movement closely do not realize this piece of data.

I wish I could get myself into all state conventions. Won't happen, but now I know exactly what to look for during the national.

Also you cannot expect the NATIONAL press to know this. I realized this pretty much when I saw my local delegation and there were MANY familiar faces... but seriously, I did not find one who opposes them. So at least ONE LARGE PARTY FROM A VERY LARGE STATE, that is your grassroots.

[donheld]

55. Nadin, you know some do not understand because they choose not to understand.

I don't know if OWS scares them making them afraid that the "tried and true" will be upset. Although they should realize the "tried and true" is really the bought and paid for politicians. Others don't "understand" because they know they should be out in the streets with us, but don't want to get dirty or inconvenienced.

[kctim]

59. But most understand

that OWS promotes a progressive agenda and we do not agree with them. If we did, the protesters would number in the millions, not the thousands.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. I would expect this to come straight, once again, from El Rushbo

You go on and dismiss the party base of at least one major state.

I will give you this, they were three thousand or so who came for the party convention. The progressive and labor caucuses took the largest halls behind the main hall. You go on and dismiss this...you are doing a fine job.

[donheld]

83. Nope, they're too lazy or ignorant

http://www.thenation.com/blog/165883/occupy-effect

[kctim]

60. Oh I understand it just fine thank you

I'm just not one to take a Yugo and try and pass it off as a Cadillac Escalade.

[nadinbrzezinski]

61. You will dismiss the grassroots then

I guess these blades of grass are not what you think the party should be.

By the way interesting analogy, use a cheap car, no longer for sale, to stand for the grass roots and compare it to a vehicle out of the reach of most working class Americans. Now that is what I call revealing in major ways.

[kctim]

65. Yes

there are blades of the little grass patch that I do not think the party is. A few that are.

The analogy was taking something and trying to make it bigger than it really is, in order to garner support. People do this often when the support they believe should be there, is not there.
Right now, OWS is a Yugo. OWS wants to be a Cadillac but the people aren't buying the line. Hundreds show up and support OWS but millions just roll their eyes.
Why? Because OWS is a progressive movement, not a people movement.

OWS will embrace the people ONLY when the people have embraced OWS. Until then, they are nothing but a bunch of radical progressives pretending they live somewhere in Europe.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. Well at least in California you are so off it's not even funny

And I suspect what the Humboldt Delegate told me is closer to the truth. The national party, not just the state party, is being pulled to the left by an active base.

Sorry if I take the word of a party delegate who's gone to national shindigs as well... As he put it, the days of the DLC are pretty much on the wane.

They are not over, just waning. As usual the tug of war continues. But from here I expected a few...we don't like OWS. Them are misguided. Tell me, why didn't I find them and instead a growing progressive caucus? I am giving a straight report from a state convention in one of the largest states, in delegates and electoral votes too.

At least in California your analogy does not work, is way off and I suspect now I know why you guys are fighting this trend so hard... And this is more than just illuminating. Oh and so you know, it started with Dean.

[kctim]

86. Us "guys" aren't fighting anything so hard

We are simply pointing out the fact that this so-called 'trend' is nothing more than the few progressives trending towards 'camping' and 'marching' instead of sitting in front of their computers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. and attending state conventions as delegates

and running for office...

And registering voters.

I hardly call that camping... unless you want to call a state convention a camp. I guess the way the San Diego Convention Center looks, sails and all, you could make that case.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

69. wow

Because OWS is a progressive movement, not a people movement.

OWS will embrace the people ONLY when the people have embraced OWS. Until then, they are nothing but a bunch of radical progressives pretending they live somewhere in Europe.

I described it as the mean-girl clique arguing over who has the hottest football player boyfriend.

You were a lot more tactful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Oh and one last question, from your post...

They are nothing but a bunch of radical progressives pretending they live somewhere in Europe.

I could not fail but to notice the radical right wing republican frame there. It strikes me as interesting that the right wing of the party is adopting frames I'd expect to listen at El Rushbo show. I would say that is interesting. So to help you, here are the other frames El Rushbo or Glenny would use

Entitlement society
Socialists
Communists

And as strange as it sounds, fascists.

I find it fascinating to read that frame you used here.

[kctim]

88. Fascinating?

I have clearly stated that I am a Democrat and NOT a progressive or liberal. As such, myself and around 80% of the Democratic Party hold beliefs to the right of progressives and liberals.
Now, you can ignore this simple fact and believe everybody to the right of you listens to right-wing radio if you want, but it is dishonest and just keeps you in the dark away from reality.

So again, OWS will not be taken serious until people other than the expected progressives decide to take it serious.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. So a frame used by Rush Limbaugh is NOW a democratic frame?

That be news to me... and I am sure a few in the party elite.

Now you are, by your own admission a blue dog. I respect that. I also understand that MANY blue dogs are former republicans, not that you are or not, it matters little. What matters is that many left the RNC and went to the DNC, this is a provable fact, since the RNC went crazee.

But that does not mean Blue Dogs are ascendant, or at least ascendant in certain regions of the country. Yes, some regions, where you live that might be the case, are more "conservative" than others. I use quotation marks since I have found that most people really do not know the meanings of the words any more... and that goes for conservative, liberal, communist, socialist, fascist... any ism. That is another discussion and it is not the people's fault, but forty years of propaganda.

But members of one party joining another is part of the process on how parties and coalitions change. And now that is starting to be pulled away from the "conservative" side to the "Liberal side"

But you may want to be careful about NOT using Rush Limbaugh's frames... or at least when I see them, I will call you on it. Mostly these frames are damaging, and I am sure you do not realize why. But they are part of a forty year propaganda campaign against the middle, and I will add, working classes.

[kctim]

91. I frame my words according to myself

not according to what a Limbaugh or a Grayson have blabbed about.

Throughout the past years, many have left the Dems and joined the Reps. The going back and forth is typical when people believe their party has moved too far left or right.

You have no idea what the politics of my area is and I have no idea about yours, which is what I am trying to get through to you. San Diego having OWS delegates, reps or whatever, is not proof of some trend spurting up over the nation. I'm not trying to say OWS should quit, be disbanded or give up, I am saying that it is not as big as many on here try to convince others of.
And I will continue to see and believe that until OWS starts getting real support in ALL of the country, not just progressive pockets.

Feel free to call me on using whatever frame you want. If they are the truth, it doesn't matter who has said it before. I also do not care if the truth is damaging, I will continue to say it. And finally, I do not fall for the "evil white guys running evil corporations in order to take over the world" BS, so I won't comment on the forty year plan you stated.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. So you truly do not care if you use rank FAR RIGHT WING

propaganda.

Okie dokie.

And the point I am trying to make at you and failing is that thing are changing. They do.

The second point is that over the last twenty years we have indeed the left of the Republican party leave the party and join the democratic party, pulling it towards a far more "conservative" and business friendly stance. This is a provable fact.

It is also now happening that you are seeing a pull back.

As to california being a progressive heaven.. or even San Diego, it is a funny statement... on it's face, but you'd have to understand why I write that. It would literally take going through census and registration data.

Now if you said some regions ON THE COAST you'd be closer to the truth. That said, they are dense population densities.

Here is another provable fact, cities, as in large cities, tend to be far more "liberal" than the country side...

So if you live in a smaller city, or rural area, you live in a more "conservative" area.

I would love to do a survey of your area removing all labels though. Every time those are done we find just how NOT conservative the country really is.

[randome]

90. Careful there, cowboy.

You'll end up with an arc through the head!

[sabrina 1]

43. OWS is a Global Trend.

As well as a National Trend, which continues to spread. And will be very active throughout the coming year, with many plans, some on a Global scale, already in place.

[BelgianMadCow]

50. Ha! I found you again. Here's the pic of Firemen protesting pension reform in Brussels last week

?ts=1329145094000

The other thread was deleted by the OP :-/

they hosed some policemen. Pretty hefty that they did it in uniform and using their fire engines. They were doing it in THE no-go zone in Brussels, where Occupy was briskly removed. Next time, we take them along

And indeed, we may meet. I had an invite for an urgent meeting on the west coast in march? Heard about that?

We were only like 50 in Bruges but had visitors from Amsterdam and Ghent, all pretty encouraging. I haven't had the time to spend recently, and also I get involved a bit much, so I cut back. We'll be back after winter in force though.

Later!
bmc

[sabrina 1]

51. Lol, that is funny, but if it happened here, those Firemen would all have been arrested

and charged with a felony. However, from the beginning here especially in NYC, the NYFD was supportive of OWS, honking their horns etc. in support during the first protests.

Europeans seem a lot less protective of their Police. Here if you even look at one the wrong way, they will arrest you.

No, I had not heard of the meeting you mentioned. I did think though, that there would be Global Protests with delegations from various cities here if they are in Europe. I am on the West Coast right now, California, so who knows?

It is good to limit your time as it can get pretty intense. So I can understand that. There are lots of ways to support those who are active all the time, without actually being there though.

Good luck in Brussels, lots going on over there and not much of it good, from what I am reading. So it could be a very 'hot' summer in European countries.

Did not know the other OP had been deleted.

Take care ...

[Remember Me]

52. Good for you, hooray!

What's being said in the streets and in the press about Greece over there??

[BelgianMadCow]

57. both the streets and the press are turning since that latest package

it used to be all about "all greeks are lazy bums looking for easy money",
but now that it has become clear how savage the package is
and how it will hit ordinary people already on the brink,
editorials are starting to draw parallels between them and us
and people both left and right denounce the EU/troika.
But, only yesterday, the EU announced they are gonna conduct
and extensive investigation in "the competitiveness of our country".
They have a problem with our indexation mechanism...and our wages.
I haven't heard them about the very large corporations like Arcelor Mittal's financial center that pays 400 euro taxes on 18 billion profits...
Problem is, if we can't show nice results, they now have the authority
to fine us to the tune of 750 million and to make binding recommendations.
The "fiscal compact" that was agreed recently is also draconic - but this is not known.
People are still in for a rough surprise, and the press did show lots of fire and no pic of the 100.000 before the greek parliament,
so much remains to be desired on the press side.

Best news, we have a book by a PVDA (more left than socialist) writer at nr 4 in the non-fiction top ten, which usually is only cookbooks and the like. Occupy is in the first and the last chapter.
I'm reading it, an eye opener even if I read about almost nothing else already.

There is hope the people in Europe simply won't have it. We have too much of an activist base as well, and no real robocops like you do. THE challenge is making sure left and right don't hit each other first (and the press does play on the political divide in a populist way).

ps on the cops: on our first GA, we had two undercovers only, they came and announced themselves and went to sit on a bench nearby. I tried to give them soup At 4.30, they were kind of yawning and went home. Then we marched to the city center (which I kind of regret since some people got carried away and went sticking flyers in a bank on the terminals, not very smart).
I do feel the police can and should be occupied to. We had plans to go kiss the cops in Brussels, but the robocops there were a bit too intimidating. We are a shy people too

[kctim]

66. So the few thousand supporters say

[sabrina 1]

71. Multiply that and a few zeroes, and you are getting close!

[libtodeath]

6. Ows seems

as much a new philosophy of thought as it is a movement.
The Democratic party will absorb much of it because they know it is right.
In essence they will follow occupy rather then occupy will ask them to lead.

Once that happens and the body politic is actually following the change we have all waited a lifetime for will be within reach because the elected officials will know better then to do otherwise.
The idea of occupy and complete equality will be the norm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. And once the parade is really big

they will lead it too. Historically this is what happens. But OWS will pull the party from the right where it resides now... if this pattern is even happening in half the state parties right now, the process is well under way. It also explains why the language is pretty much part of the National Party themes now, very well.

[LongTomH]

54. I really, really hope you're right!

We need a 'new philosophy of thought', or maybe just a return to Liberal Democratic core values!

[madamesilverspurs]

11. From where I sit (stand, march, rally, protest, etc.),

OWS is providing a noticeable transfusion of energy. Separate and distinct from the party, it's very welcome. Most of our local OFA team members are active in or supportive of OWS. It will, indeed, be interesting to note the number of Occupiers at our Dem state convention. Can't wait!

Put another way, OWS is a powerful and practical accessory to our party ensemble; question is, do the signs make my butt look big?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Yup, well said,

[Brickbat]

13. Because state delegates are, for the most part, the same people year after year, I would guess this

is more a case of politically active people who happened to get involved in OWS stuff when it happened, rather than a huge upsurge of newly activist OWS people suddenly deciding to participate in the political process. Could be wrong, though.

[Robb]

16. Good point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. And you'd be wrong since I did talk to many

some are that. Like an older lady who came to vote for a Progressive at the caucus, two weeks after a hip replacement surgery.

Some got involved with Dean... in 2004

Some got involved starting in 2010. It is like that little disaster really scared people.

I did the work. But there is no news story here YET.

As one who has been what you put told me... the party has gotten an infusion of new blood over the last five years... and most of this new blood is the LEFT of the party. In fact, the progressive caucus, in a state that is quite blue, has only grown.

[Brickbat]

40. When you say "got involved," what do you mean? With the party?

I'm not quite seeing how I'm wrong. And it's great that new people are getting involved.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. You are saying the delegates are the same old

Who always go...there were plenty of those. But there was plenty of new blood too...conservatively 50/50.

But the new blood is mostly progressive, starting in 2004. The party, assuming this is a national trend, will have to move left to keep that support.

As they say, we shall see.

But people are figuring it out, you gotta work from both within and without. This is what is happening.

[starroute]

20. "The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master"

From what I can observe from outside, it appears that most OWSers would be dead set against being taken over by the Democratic Party -- but would be perfectly happy for the Democratic Party to be taken over (or at least heavily influenced) by OWS.

The basic point is that OWS is larger than politics. It's a political movement, it's a utopian social movement, it's a movement of spiritual renewal. It encompasses hackers and makers, radical foodies and guerrilla gardeners, anarchists and neo-hippies. Just as it has no single demand, it has no single expression. It's as fluid as water, taking the shape of whatever container it's poured into.

This is hard for anybody to grasp who imagines that Occupy is a limited fringe movement, a few thousand people in a handful of locations, that is already losing momentum. But the truth is that it's more like a tsunami. If a tsunami passes by you while you're out at sea, you might barely notice it. Your boat lifts up on a long swell, then settles down again, and it's past. But once the wave hits shore -- watch out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. I think I saw the tip of that wave

and I suspect that BOTh party leaderships (GOP and DNC) are aware of it. Why they are both... changing tunes.

[Remember Me]

53. Excellent and somewhat poetic description!

OWS is larger than politics. It's a political movement, it's a utopian social movement, it's a movement of spiritual renewal. It encompasses hackers and makers, radical foodies and guerrilla gardeners, anarchists and neo-hippies. Just as it has no single demand, it has no single expression. It's as fluid as water, taking the shape of whatever container it's poured into.

It's everywhere, and it's our future.

I LOVE Occupy!

[JNelson6563]

23. How sad that Occupy is the only grassroots where you are.

We have worked hard over the years to build a Dem presence in our red area. We can both get the bodies out AND raise the funds. Our local OWS came to us and we welcomed them. Had them to our recent event, introduced them, let them address the crowd as well as sign up volunteers. They were quite young, enthusiastic, intelligent and spoke brilliantly and passionately.

Just today I got a message from a Dem board member promoting an OWS event in our town. Here it is:

FEB 18 - Saturday: Occupalooza Festival - InsideOut Gallery, 229 Garland St. Traverse City: 5:30 - 11 pm

Please join us for a fun filled evening! In addition to the bands and the speakers listed below, we'll have Jeff Gibbs (6:00 pm), Local Business panel (Horizon Books, Oryana, TBA Credit Union 8:45 pm), and a live screen shot for an film called The Saga of Larry Tunner (9:50 pm) in the music room, and maybe a very special surprise guest. In the other room will be tables for OccupyTC, a Silent Auction, the speakers, Move to Amend, Emergency Manager bill petition (PA 4), Video loop and posters with graphs showing reasons for our concerns, and Finger Food Treats. The usual beverages will be on sale by Inside Out Gallery.

Please bring: Food donations will be accepted at the door and the Northwest Food Coalition will receive, and distribute them to the most needy food pantry. See you at Occupalooza!!

There has been no talk of one group taking over the other, just discussion on how we can join forces to achieve our common goals. So such different than internet politics where we only focus on differences. Maybe the internet activists will catch up to the real world activists on this one day. That is my hope.

Julie

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. They are not the only grass roots

And it is not my area, it was the CALIFORNIA STATE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION. I talked to members from Sacramento, hardly my area, behind the Orange Wall, hardly my area, LA, hardly my area... San Francisco, hardly my area... the central valley, hardly my area.

And the consensus was that OWS is pretty much integral to the grassroots. As one person put it from Humboldt County. hardly my area, the party is getting pulled to the left.

[Zalatix]

25. Pulled to the left... it's about time.

[JNelson6563]

31. You will have to excuse me, I meant no offense

by thinking you were from the area you were talking about. I do not know your personal situation so pardon me erroneous assumption.

Obviously there is a much bigger OWS presence in CA than in MI. It will be interesting to see what sort of OWS presence there will be at the Michigan (my area) state Dem convention. I can't imagine it's much different around the state than here as far as OWS/Dem party relations go.

As a longtime Dem activist I have always thought OWS was a good thing and a great potential partner in an effort to make things better. I've really only seen the whole "them" and "us" stuff on the internet. Thankfully!

Lastly, somehow I got the impression from your OP that if not for OWS, ther wouldn't be any grassroots stuff going on. But here you clarify that they are an integral part of that effort so thank you for clearing that up. Glad to know the Dem party in CA isn't as bad off as all that.

I'm quite heartened to see all the younger people OWS is bringing into politics. The college-aged OWS folks at the event I mentioned previously were very smart in how they were going about working toward certain political goals and asked for help in achieving those goals. Everyone was on board and many signed up to help. Perfect!

Julie--who doesn't see OWS and the Dems in competition but an effective partnership

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. No problem

itproblem it was an interesting observation, and am personally curious how many state conventions will go this way. I wish I coud cover all, but I freelance for a pretty local paper, with limited resources. We were there since it happened in San Diego propper.

As to OWS. I suspect, can't prove it, that we will see similar dynamics, in some state parties more obvious, in others less. I also know most of the media is not covering OWS to the point they know who's who in the zoo...

.

Yes, some OWS groups are more radical than others, for example.

[backscatter712]

27. I think of Occupy as a way to give the Dem elites the swift kick in the ass they desperately need.

In Denver, the Occupiers just did a protest outside of the Democratic Party's Jefferson Jackson fundraising dinner. Minimum cost per plate: $125, and prices run into the five-figures if you want to sit close to the bigwigs.

On the surface, it was kind of antagonistic, but at the same time, there were some Democrats among the protesters. Some of the protesters and dinner-goers were waving at each other and laughing as much as they were shouting. And afterwards, at the Occupy after-party, I hung out with one of the people who went to the dinner.

I am a Democrat who Occupies. Boy it can make me feel schizophrenic sometimes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. You nailed it

I was asked by a mid range party official about where I was politically... I am an indie. He said, mid range then.

I told him that this was a mistake they made. I am way, and I mean this, WAAAYYYY to the left of most party big wigs. And that more and more decline to state voters are either to the right or the left, not the center.

[zappaman]

30. Is this going on in all 51 states?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002307280#post3

[EX500rider]

92. What's the 51 State? n/t

[zappaman]

93. Beats me. n/t

[craigmatic]

32. I'm not surprised all they really want is to be heard and to see that their voice matters

to the people in charge. They're a natural fit for the democratic party.

[fascisthunter]

36. Kick (nt)

[AnOhioan]

37. The day OWS becomes part and parcel of the Democratic Party is the day they lose any credibilty.

[Johonny]

41. Does it have credibility now

It has credibility here at the DU and certainly within those in the movement, but nationally does it have any? Ultimately the movement needs to be more than just a mass protest to becoming a functioning movement. The movement wants social change and you can't get social change without either intimidating the existing power structure or starting to get your own people into the power structure (which scares them a lot). So far the existing power structure doesn't appear massively moved to action. If you are in the US you want to get into the power structure, you basically have to do so within the two party system we have. That means you eventually have to get people into either the Democratic or Republican party. It would be great if the movement could occupy both parties, however realistically most at the DU probably think the Democratic party is more open to most OWS protesters. Do mass protests translate well into eventually grabbing political power historically in this country? IDK. Certainly the labor movement and the civil rights movement eventually became associated with the Democratic party. Even today when national Democratic leaders seem less than all embracing of either issue.

[sabrina 1]

44. Good post. In answer to your question regarding what influence they have had,

one example is the NY US Attorney, Scheidermann, who has credited them with giving him the support he needed to refuse to make a deal with the Big Banks and to go forward with taking action against MERS.

This was exactly the goal of the movement. The corruption of our system by money. So they have accomplished one of their main goals as if he is right, without them, a deal might have made, allowing the banks to get off with a slap on the wrist in terms of monetary cost.

There are other examples, but I feel that is one of the most significant influences so far.

[CTyankee]

58. that and injecting the terms "99% and 1%" into the political bloodstream!

We are now talking about income inequality in this country and we didn't before OWS. Even the talking heads are using the shorthand...

To me, that is a significant enough achievement in and of itself!

[sabrina 1]

64. I agree. They did change the discussion on a national level.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. You'd do well to ask Leader Pelosi

Who used way too many Occupy frames throughout the convention. And that is just the begining. It rolled down from there.

For a bunch of non-influential people...they have had quite a bit of it.

[BelgianMadCow]

42. even if it's outside the US: over here, several papers and the socialist party are using the lingo

deeds remain to be seen.

Since Greece, I've seen quite the turn in the media. Seems they are starting to get it. I also see far left and far right agreeing the power-drunk center isn't gonna change things.

We always have a non-fiction book top ten with cookbooks and how to loose weight things. Now we have a book called "they are doing it again" by an even more leftist than socialist writer on number 4.

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. At least in the US the first thing that comes before deeds

Is adopting the frames.

[wiggs]

45. Much about OWS is not as media would have you think. I think it is

much stronger and much more well-known than we might think.

The movement hit a nerve, no doubt, with the wall street and the 99% memes. These have sticking power, as do many OWS issues. OWS will likely be messy and unorganized and misunderstood as often as not, but it gets some attention. Not as much as deserved and not always the most flattering, but it's starting to combine with other issues and movements, each reinforcing the other and gaining traction. The ongoing Wisconsin protests and election actions, the pro-union protests, the Greece austerity protests, the daily Romney reminders about the .1%, the daily arguments and skirmishes over taxation, the gop primaries, etc...

Thanks for the report.

[malaise]

46. Great post

[U4ikLefty]

56. Occupy is so much deeper than a few protest & tents.

My involvement in Occupy LA let me observe the movement morph after the raid. We are only getting stronger, smarter and more determined.

All of the great things that we shared & learned at Solidarity Park, all of the connections we made gave us the tools to affect change. Occupy is actually a living example of "be the change you want to see in the world."

There is so much going on in the movement and I am happy some "members" are involved in politics, but the Occupy is much more than political change.

Thx Nadin.

[sabrina 1]

73. Good post. It is about a 'system' change. What we've doing wrong is

trying to work within a system that is so corrupt that even when we 'win' we are merely either putting a quick band-aid on what went before which does nothing to change anything, or worse, pro-longing and strengthening the system that is the real reason why things never seem to change for the benefit of the people.

But in just a few months OWS has done more to raise the consciousness of the people to the root causes of the problems they knew existed but could not always identify.

When the people lead, the leaders will follow. We have been following, OWS has presented an opportunity for us to lead. Sincere politicians will take that opportunity, and some have.

I am glad to hear about LA's success.

[Whisp]

62. ''Not only that, the themes of OWS were all over in speeches''

the things OWS want and ask for are nothing new.
nothing new under the sun.

Generally I support and appreciate the Occupiers, but twisting what they do into something they came up with out of the blue is nonsense (this is the message I am getting from some). These are people coming together on issues that have been here for a long time, not people coming together to discover these new things and enlighten us all to new facts. The themes of poverty and inequality, etc., is nothing new.

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Pressure from the streets is necessary at times

To move from just pretty speeches. There are volumes of history books on this one.

But as I said, careful who you hate...them are the active grassroots, at least in the land of fruit and nuts... Ans we are the 99%, which has been noted before by others came straight from the streets.

[Whisp]

74. I don't hate OWS, did you read what I said?

o the fucking continuous drama making

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. Ok...you also are ignoring the constant

But they don't know what they want, or right out tight wing frames

Have a good day.

I know what I will look for.

[Whisp]

76. whoosh

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. Back at ya

[U4ikLefty]

77. Show me one post where someone claims that OWS "came up with" these issues "out of the blue"

You and others like to reframe the argument to deny credit to Occupy for changing the discourse.

It is petty crap & I expect better from a progressive.

Also, any time I hear shit like "Generally I support and appreciate the Occupiers, but" I immediately know a load of BS is coming.

[Whisp]

82. what the fuck ever.

the tone of the opening post seemed to be saying that.

and I disagree.

so excuse me. I'll have you know I appreciate the OWS a lot more on the whole - but the single angry whining stabbing trashing 'representatives' I can do without and generally don't let that taint the whole group for a few flailing nutbars - that would be silly, wouldn't it?

[U4ikLefty]

84. So that means you can't find one & now are lashing out.

what the fuck ever...indeed.

[Whisp]

85. I matched your tone in my reply

Mr. Crab

[woo me with science]

81. K&R

[atddoug]

95. Don't ask Dem leaders, trust the words of OWS - they hate Dems

I'm running a series of posts on this subject for Dems, OWS Is Not Our Ally. Dems are clinging to the hope that OWS will vote our way in November. Fact is, they have made it clear that they will NOT vote for Dems.

Just a few weeks ago, Occupy Los Angeles ran an article with these statements:

As they’ve done so many times in the past, on Tuesday 6 November 2012 American voters will go to the polls to decide absolutely nothing. At least not at the presidential level, where electing either corporate-controlled Democratic puppet Obama or corporate-controlled Republican puppet.

After two disastrous terms with Dubya, Obama was sold to the Sheeple as “Change” incarnate in 2008. But what really changed?

Clearly the Democrats and Republicans have the same core agenda and answer to the same global elite, so voting for the candidates of either merely perpetuates their “two-party tyranny”.

Don’t waste any more time or energy on the presidential election than it takes to get to your polling station and pull a lever for a third-party candidate – just enough to register your obstruction and defiance – and then get back out onto the street. That is where the question of real power is being decided.

And from Occupy Washington D.C.:

The Obama administration and the Democrats as well as the Republicans maintain the rule of Wall Street. Occupiers have organized an independent movement that challenges the rule of the 1% and their Republican and Democratic lackeys. Bought and paid for with millions of dollars from Wall Street, the health insurance industry and big energy interests, Obama and the Democrats are part of the problem, not the solution.

Comments I'm finding in blog after blog:

Democrats and the Republicans are 100% identical, absolutely no difference what so ever

Having attended the May Day rally in New York and been gratified that the liberal stench that clung to so many of the earlier OWS events seems to have dissipated

The Democrats are in for a rough ride.

OWS hates Democrats as much as Republicans hate Democrats. Its time for Dems to face the facts, stop kissing their asses, and focus on our supporters and those who can help us win in November.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Riddle me this batman

Not one occupy candidate made it to the November run off, and we're all these statements aproved by a general assembly? Having covered OWS I know a thing or two h it works.

Second riddle you'll have to do...any evidence of democrats kissing the asses of OWS? I want to see it.