DOMA gone. DADT gone. Iraq War gone. Universal Health Care - coming soon, Economy - coming back

[arely staircase]

Don't let anyone tell you both parties are the same.

[Schema Thing]

1. yeah but what has he done for us lately?

oh, uh, nevermind; I'll ask again next week.

[GoneFishin]

18. Awsome. The 80 something innocents who have been locked up in in Guantanamo Bay for 10 years

for no reason, and who have been cleared for release but are still being held anyway are going to be freakin' psyched.

[Sheepshank]

143. no one is permitted to enjoy any fucking acheivements

ever.

Why not start your own pissing thread.

This is about DOMA and other successes

[HardTimes99]

24. Getting yourself in good with the NSA, I see. Hope President

Santorum never gets ahold of your posts here. (I'll probably be in the camps right beside you, come to think of it

[arely staircase]

36. quite the busy eleven days

nt

[AverageMe]

98. I love Obama, but as long a the NSA program

continues as it is, I say a plague on his home and all that are in it. Also on all our Reps in congress who do nothing to change it. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I am now a single issue voter, it is all about what makes out country different from others - freedom.

[gateley]

184. I just never know what to say when someone says they're a single issue voter --

But I have a question anyway.

If this is your single issue, who would/could you vote for?

[liberal_at_heart]

197. I'm a single issue voter. My single issue is education. Who can I vote for? I don't know.

No one seems to give a shit about education although I will say I visited the Green Party's website for the first time last week and really liked their education platform.

[sibelian]

198. Whoever volunteers to solve the problem.

There's a carrot for you.

[AverageMe]

218. Whoever was against this program

I might have to hold my nose, and throw-up, after I vote if it was Paul, but this is that important to me. If there was no candidate against this program, then the other issues would come into play, and I would probably vote for a Democrat.

[Cha]

228. lt's ongoing Progress that wasn't the POINT of the OP. She clearly stated

"Don't let anyone tell you both parties are the same."

And, you can't do that.

[railsback]

2. But Obama is taking our 'freedoms' away

Haven't you heard?

[AverageMe]

107. Yes, I heard

And it is too bad that all the good he has done is wiped out by this NSA program.

[Recursion]

3. I call it the Sorkin Delusion

A lot of people think that if only a President will speak angrily on TV, everyone who's not a liberal will see the error of their ways and do the right thing.

Solid, incremental progress like this actually bothers a lot of them, because it keeps the system going.

[DCBob]

29. +1

[HardTimes99]

30. The unemployment rate in Los Angeles is currently over 11% (in some areas of Watts and Compton, it

is as high as 40-50%). 1 in 5 American children experience one episode of hunger each month.

So you'll forgive me if I keep the champagne corked and nosiemakers sealed awhile longer.

[sibelian]

123. If it's counterbalanced by negative increments or sweeping regressive moves...

Well....

[Progressive dog]

166. +1

[GoneFishin]

180. We'll never know.

[arely staircase]

237. that's pretty good

it is like all that is needed is some righteous indignation.

[quinnox]

4. wow, if only things were really that rosy

Iraq is still a festering wound, that to our shame, is full of bloodshed and violence. And it is our fault. Here is what a quick google news search turned up -

Iraq bombs kill 23, including minority protesters

BAGHDAD (AP) — A suicide bomber blew himself up among a group of demonstrators complaining about lack of security in an ethnically disputed northern Iraqi city on Tuesday, in the deadliest in a spate of attacks that killed at least 23 people, authorities said.

Iraq is weathering its deadliest outburst of violence since 2008, with more than 2,000 people killed since the start of April. The bloodshed appears to be largely the work of resurgent Sunni militants such as al-Qaida, feeding off Sunni discontent with the Shiite-led government.

And Universal Health Care? We wish! I don't call being forced to buy crappy and inadequate coverage from profitable Health Insurance companies "Universal Health Care".

[arely staircase]

5. right on time

nt

[tridim]

59. Not satisfied with his stable of ponies, he now wants better ponies.

With diamond encrusted accessories.

Oh, and they have to talk too.

C'mon Obama, get on the ball!!!!!111

[Skidmore]

6. So you want us to return to war in

Iraq?

[quinnox]

11. That is a strange reaction. No, the point is, Iraq is still in chaos and hasn't "gone away" just

because the United States has mostly withdrawn from it. That is a very US-centric and short sighted way of thinking. Iraq is not all better now. It is our fault that its the way it is, and I'm sure there are other things we could do to help them other than using our military.

[snooper2]

14. Like USAID maybe?

http://iraq.usaid.gov/

[DCBob]

37. FYI.. we are spending hundreds of millions on non-military programs there.

http://iraq.usaid.gov/node/60

BTW, In case you forgot Obama did not start that stupid war.. he is simply trying to end it without creating a bigger mess than Bush had already made.

[MH1]

9. What do you think the US President* should do about Iraq?

* assume the very best person you can think of - your choice for the job, and you don't even have to say who - is the person in that position.

What should they do about Iraq if they take office TODAY?

[HardTimes99]

78. Massive reparations for the Iraqi people and war crimes trials for

The Bush Junta.

[MH1]

262. How much will you raise taxes to pay for the reparations?

Or do you propose adding that amount to the budget deficit and therefore the long term debt? What do you think the total $ figure for reparations should amount to?

Either way, can your preferred President get that through Congress, and if not, what should s/he do about it?

Should we have any US military in Iraq, even if the current Iraq government asks us to be there (and agrees to a SOFA), or asks us to completely withdraw all forces?

What about civilian contractors? If US firms want to do business there, and the Iraq government is ok with it, should the US government have any say? What if a contractor is working there with permission of the Iraqi government (i.e. not in contravention of any orders to stay out), but American citizens are kidnapped by anti-government forces?

[HardTimes99]

264. Every Iraqi who was killed, wounded or displaced (whether internally

or externally) has suffered a tort at the hands of the American people and government. The $ amount of that tort, taken individually or in the aggregate, is beyond my humble powers to calculate, but I would submit that the existing instruments of international law, like the World Court, would be a suitable venue for handling claims and determining liability. (That's about as lawyer-speak as I get As to where the funding should come from, until a $ dollar amount for damages is known, one cannot answer as to whether it should be funded through tax increases, issuance of more debt or (my preference) seizure and liqudation of all assets controlled individually and jointly by responsible members of the Bush Junta, starting with Bushy boy's ranch in Crawford, proceeding through Cheney's lucre, working through Rumsfeld's rot and so on and so forth. You get my drift, I'm sure. Simple forfeiture actions, akin to what is used in run-of-the-mill drug cases, should suffice for my preferred course of action.

Contingent upon a judgment by the World Court and assuming we submit ourselves to its jurisidiction (as any law-abiding state presumably would), a President and Congress would need to work together to satisfy the World Court's verdict, else face massive international censure and sanctions (loss of MFN trading status, embargos on goods coming in, withdrawal of diplomatic missions, and so on).

No U.S. military forces should be deployed in Iraq iwthout the agreement of the U.N. Security Council and existing government of Iraq. We are not, nor should we be, the boss of Iraq

As for civilian contractors, they are free to work there or not at their own risk and fully indemnified by their respective employers. If American or other mercenaries "are kidnapped' by 'anti-government forces,' that is a matter for the police forces and security service of Iraq to sort out.

Why the intense litany of questions? Is this in pursuit of some larger point you're trying to make? If my forgoing paragraphs have failed to make it clear, the U.S. committed a gross crime against the peace and as such is a rogue nation, no longer entitled to the decent respect of mankind, barring the steps I have laid out above.

[MH1]

266. So until judgment rendered by World Court, no reparations?

What should the US President do, independent of what others choose to do or not do? (As far as I know, there isn't a case like this at the World Court. I could be mistaken.)

Actually, this conversation started with my question in response to a post by a different poster (quinnox) who has not replied to it. In their post, quinnox referred to the situation in Iraq today, with bombings, etc. But our troops are essentially out (except embassy staff, I think) and we definitely aren't trying to be "boss of Iraq" at the moment. So my question was about what the US President should do today about the recurring violence within Iraq. It doesn't sound like you support any further intervention from us. We could "throw money at it" without even being asked, but in whose hands would the money end up, and would it actually help things, or make it worse?

(The "intense litany" of questions is probably related to my caffeine consumption this morning, and the only larger point is that this is NOT a simple problem. I don't even necessarily disagree (or agree) with your ideas, I just think it is really, really not simple, and it's NOT Obama's fault, but maybe he COULD be doing something to improve the situation and I think it's interesting to discuss what those things might be)

[HardTimes99]

267. I see reparations proceedings and war crimes trials happening simultaneously. The President is

constrained by the Constitution as far as taking any actions arbitrarily. But the President is also constrained to comply with the dictates of international law and treaties, since those assume equal status with all domestic laws.

I was frankly surprised as well that quinnox never returned to defend his or her assertions, since he or she was the one to raise them originally and I merely weighed in in support. Be that as it may, the point I was trying to make here is that the U.S. owes a huge debt to the world and to Iraq for the crimes we manifestly committed in Iraq and, whether it was Obama's "fault" hardly matters, since it is an American responsibility and criminal liability.

I was trying to respond to your questions myself without a lot of caffeine this morning and apologize for my surly tone. I agree that the questions are not simple and the answers will be equally complex. But just as Nuremberg after 1945 allowed the world to create a new framework for international law and human rights that superseded the treaty of Westphalia, so too the denouement of Shocking and Awful would allow for a new global consensus on acceptable and unacceptable behavior between and among nations and their peoples, one that allows American itself to continue moving toward a 'more perfect Union.'

[AtomicKitten]

10. Bless your heart. nt

[quinnox]

13. the truth hurts

But I imagine in Obama-happy cloud land-, everything looks wonderful and cold reality is not something to think about.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Hypocrite much?

You were much more, um, flexible when you-know-who voted for the Iraq War.

quinnox (16,095 posts) March 31, 2013

28. well, maybe she had to do that for her political career. She is a woman, and she has to appear strong. I am not excusing it, just saying she might have had reasons. And it was not a pivotal vote she made either, in terms of the numbers. If she had opposed it, that would have made no difference in how it came out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2593794

[quinnox]

22. that has nothing to do with this OP

not sure why you bring that up.

[AtomicKitten]

23. think harder

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. Double standards are tough aren't they? Thanks for pointing that one out.

[AtomicKitten]

55. obvious troll is obvious

... and not going to piss in my Wheaties this AM.

DOMA struck down and the ass-kicking filibuster in Texas make this a pretty damn good day.

[Tarheel_Dem]

63. I'm right there with ya! I just found the "concern" very interesting.

IT IS, INDEED, A GOOD DAY!

[GoneFishin]

190. Agreed. These two points are great.

"DOMA struck down and the ass-kicking filibuster in Texas make this a pretty damn good day. "

[AtomicKitten]

234. and a third that I forgot to mention ...

The new Senator Markey winning JK's former Senate seat.

cheers

[GoneFishin]

242. Yep. Agreed.

[HappyMe]

69. Uh oh!

The Kitten of Atomic power points out the chink in the armour.

The hypocrisy is so deep, I need hip-waders.

[AtomicKitten]

233. yes indeed

[arely staircase]

25. it clearly does

nt

[tridim]

60. Obama land, aka REALITY. Obama is the President of the United States.

Wow.

[quinnox]

89. true, I will correct my post to make it clearer what I meant

[Phlem]

207. I see you've got the market cornered on REALITY.

I guess I must bow and call you ALLAH for your purely reality based world you get to live in!

[tridim]

210. Cool story dude.

[Phlem]

212. Sure thing Mr. Reality

-p

[Marr]

165. They get angry when you inject a little realism into their cartoon.

[quinnox]

169. tell me about it

I noticed.

Piercing their fantasy dream makes me the bad guy. Such as, "Health Insurance now equals Universal Health Care". Or, "the Iraq war is over, everything is coming up roses, and there is nothing to worry about, Go Obama!!".

[Marr]

175. Maybe its just my bias tainting my perception of it, but there really seems to be this

desperate, grasping quality to the remarks in threads like this-- and they always follow the same arc. The most loyal fans pile into the thread, stumbling over one another to shout their agreement and say "I told you so" to all the "haters", without any critical examination of the OP's exuberant statements whatsoever.

And the moment someone points out a problem with the argument, they all aggressively mob the critic, like they're just so desperate to re-inflate this happy delusion that's been slowly leaking for months.

[quinnox]

179. Nope, you nailed it

They can never debate on facts, or on political philosophy, so they have to resort to mobs and school yard name-calling. It never fails. That is why I hardly ever bother to ask them questions that would invite real debate, they simply will either ignore it, or say "you hater!" "you libertarian!" "you lefty loon!" etc etc.

[sibelian]

200. It's becoming increasingly weird.

Some of the positions now being openly espoused are so highly spun you could dry clothes in them.

[Phlem]

211. Try post # 60

apparently anyone who does not agree does not live in a realty based world. The whole post sounds like a post from a Fundamental Christian.



WTF!!!????

[sibelian]

213. Meaninglessness is irrefutable.

You can't argue with someone who wilfully avoids making a point.

[treestar]

246. Is that how it seems?

Negativity can be psychotic too. One is not always more realistic for seeing things in the gloomiest possible terms.

[MH1]

263. Did you miss my question, right above AtomicKitten's post?

I am curious as to what you think about that.

[snooper2]

12. If you don't have something nice to say

use Yahoo message boards LOL

[quinnox]

15. lol, you first

I don't like yahoo boards. If you only want to hear nice and fluffy things, hang out in the BOG.

[Cali_Democrat]

16. So?

We aren't there anymore. That's the point. The only other solution would be to re-invade.

I doubted Obama when it came to his Iraq withdrawal and now I'm happy we got the fuck out of there.

[HappyMe]

19. Yup.

Some like to piss in the Wheaties no matter what.

[quinnox]

21. ok, well maybe you don't care, but I do

I think it is wrong that by invading Iraq we (as in the United States) caused the current situation in Iraq. I think we bear a hell of a responsibility to fix it. And obviously, we aren't being successful in doing that, by money aid or political efforts, because the situation is just as bad as ever. Maybe its time to double and triple down in terms of concentrating on fixing what we ruined over there.

[AtomicKitten]

28. Well, maybe he had to do that for his political career.

He's black and has to appear strong. I am not excusing it, just saying he might have had reasons. And it was not a pivotal vote he made either, in terms of the numbers. If he had opposed it, that would have made no difference in how it came out.

[quinnox]

32. ok...

maybe its time for the daily medication?

[AtomicKitten]

34. I'm pretty sure you're beyond help.

You have an advanced case of terminal hypocrisy.

[OilemFirchen]

215. I see what you did there.

It really does sound like this (posted upthread):

quinnox (16,095 posts) March 31, 2013

28. well, maybe she had to do that for her political career. She is a woman, and she has to appear strong. I am not excusing it, just saying she might have had reasons. And it was not a pivotal vote she made either, in terms of the numbers. If she had opposed it, that would have made no difference in how it came out.

But that's a false equivalency. The poster to whom you are responding was making a very vaid point and he should be commended for it. It was extremely well thought-out and absolutely on point. Your response, while remarkably similar in spirit and content is a non-sequitor. While to some it may appear that the poster is harboring a double standard, he is, in fact, a principled progressive with a keen eye toward the nuances of modern politics.

A hearty huzzah to him, and my deepest gratitude for his stalwart defense of the American way!

[AtomicKitten]

232. no, it's not

a false equivalency nor is he a progressive.

If you follow the link I posted above, you will see he is a bitter HClinton fan that brooks no opposition to her (see his obsequious defense of her IWR vote), also demonstrated throughout the same thread referenced, at the same time hypocritically climbing up and pitching a tent in O's ass every chance he gets.

Simply put, the guy is a poser.

The point is today is a good day with DOMA being overturned, the awesome filibuster in Texas, and Senator Markey winning JK's former Senate seat.

[OilemFirchen]

236. Shhhhh...

I'm channeling my inner Eddie Haskell, following a serious spanking earlier today.

"Well, good morning Mr. Quinnox ! Those saddle shoes really accent your uniquely prominent monobrow!"

[treestar]

247. :spits wine all over monitor:

AK for the win!

[jberryhill]

31. Well, we can't bring Saddam or the Iran/Iraq war back

If they want those things, they'll just have to figure it out on their own.

[quinnox]

41. great, so now we just wash our hands and say to hell with them

We invaded your country on false pretenses, killed thousands of innocent people by bombing the hell out of them, caused a power vacuum that has resulted in daily violence and suicide bombers, and now, tough luck, deal with it!

No, I can't see it. There has to be a higher moral standard and example set than that. Especially by the supposed Worlds Greatest Power.

[jberryhill]

260. Saddam suppressed a lot of internal conflict

The Shiites and Sunnis don't like each other very much, and nobody likes the Kurds. What we can't do is sort it out for them.

[Amonester]

272. I think the Brits should fix the mess they've made there first, then send 'em cheneybu$h.

But those Imperials who did it at the time are all eating worms by now, so I don't blame their grandchildren for not wanting to fix their "divide and conquer" violent resource grabs a few centuries ago.

[arely staircase]

48. wow i feel honored

your first ever du post, and it is to minimize Obama's accomplishments in my thread.

welcome

[arely staircase]

66. omg, this is the most awesome thing ever

nt

[HangOnKids]

82. Person posted a fact backed up with a link

Yet you are still in attack mode with the "minimize accomplishments" comment. The poster did not personalize their post, you did. The comment about "most awesome thing" might be the truest thing you have ever posted.

[arely staircase]

91. are you kidding? attack mode?

someone gets a DU account just because they don't like me liking Obama - this is one of my greatest DU experiences EVER.

I am totally sincere.

[HangOnKids]

93. Poor thing.

That is all I have to say.

[Bobbie Jo]

252. It was a troll.

Good call.

[Buzz Clik]

204. I have had a few of those, and they are, likewise, gone.

Proving that the NSA is doing their job of keeping DU safe.

[arely staircase]

225. lol

I just noticed they are gone. kinda sad.

[HooptieWagon]

52. Bingo.

The troops in Iraq have been replaced with contractors. Troops were sent to A-stan, where there has been no improvement. Drones targetting civilians in countries we aren't at war with. Under guise of fighting "terror", surveillence being conducted domestically.
DOMA is up to the SCOTUS, Obama has little to do with that. Economy is recovering for Wall Street, little improvement for Main Street. Job recovery is lower paying...about 3/4 of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. ACA has some good intentions, some bad features. Not much in bill to keep healthcare costs under control. Remains to be seen if it works as intended. Education a big fail. Dragging feet on enviroment. Allowed BP to dump toxic dispersants in Gulf to hide oil spill.

While Obama has made baby steps in a positive direction in a few selected areas, by and large his presidency has been very little better than his predecesor's...who is generally referred to as the worst president ever. If Obama supporters can only claim him successful by measuring him against a really low bar, it speaks rather poorly.

[HangOnKids]

88. Get ready to be attacked by the incoming drones of bullshit

You know it is coming.

[arely staircase]

95. Incoming Drones of Bullshit

I saw them at Bonnaroo in '03.

[HangOnKids]

99. No you didn't

They check coolness at the gate. You didn't get in.

[arely staircase]

103. did too

nt

[HangOnKids]

124. Please keep posting till the cows come home

You have given a valiant effort. Not interested in you. Bye now!

[arely staircase]

126. buh bye

I.D.B. fucking rocks!

[hrmjustin]

127. Why are you always so mean to people?

[HangOnKids]

134. Are we friends? Because you seem real interested in what I have to say

But please continue with the performance art, the lounge crew appears to be buying it. Me, NOT.

[hrmjustin]

138. No we are not friends. But I was following my friends OP.

I just wish you would be a bit more polite in your response. And what do the lounge crew buy? Do tell.

[HangOnKids]

139. Justin Get Lost

Thanks!

[hrmjustin]

140. A typical response from you.

[HangOnKids]

147. Ahhh Do You Haz A Sad?

You might want to take that up with somebody who cares!

[hrmjustin]

148. Again typical! So how do I have people fooled?

[HangOnKids]

152. Bye Bye

Actually you have nobody fooled. You are just brilliant and should win a TONY. Please stop wasting DU space, and go talk to somebody who thinks you are marvelous. Because GAWD knows you LOVE to post!

[hrmjustin]

154. Yeah I have sinned by posting too much and liking DU! Sorry if you feel I am wasting your

time but just wanted to point out that you could be a little nicer to people. You seem to go out of your way not to.

[HangOnKids]

158. I am kind and nice to people who are REAL

Sorry you don't understand that concept. Happy posting.

[hrmjustin]

161. So I am not real? Again typical from you.

[LanternWaste]

167. I imagine we often predicate our own kindness on that of others

I imagine we often predicate our own kindness on that of others (and define additional qualifiers as to who does or does not deserve kindness pretending we are wise enough to know), rather than simply being kind for its own sake.

[HangOnKids]

170. Whatever

You can imagine whatever you want.

[hrmjustin]

216. I always try to be kind here. I fall short at times.

I just wish some would not be so mean in their responses to others. Some people take delight in it.

[HooptieWagon]

96. Don't I know!

The petulant Personality Cult has already been attacking myself and others who dare criticise policies of their Dear Leader. Already had the name-calling, etc. They're just immature children, intolerant of differing opinion. Dem's version of teabaggers.

[tridim]

132. What are you the Dem's version of?

I have a good guess, but I'll let you try first.

[HooptieWagon]

153. Bernie Saunders.

[tridim]

164. So you're saying that I'm a teabagger and you're Bernie Saunders[sic]? Check.

It's truly amazing that I had the foresight to join DU in 2001 and bide my time until the Koch's got their act together 9 years later.

You are a freaking genius Mr. Saunders!

[arely staircase]

188. bernie saUnders -

greatest man EVER.

[tridim]

201. The hockey player?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Saunders

M'kay.... ?

[HooptieWagon]

206. EVER might be a bit strong....

But he's certainly the best we've got now. And he'll have a strong legacy...unlike those who readily set aside priciples for loyalty to a party, personality, or corporate interests.

[arely staircase]

208. who is, saunders?

nt

[tridim]

209. Okay, I give up. Learn to spell dude.

It's Bernie Sanders, not Bernie Saunders.

Most people here like and respect Bernie Sanders, and all of us can spell his name correctly.

[arely staircase]

217. awe, I was kinda hoping to keep that one going awhile.

nt

[Progressive dog]

172. You say "dear leader" about a Democratic president

and call others "immature children". The teabaggers here would be the ones that use words that sound like the teabaggers' signs.

[davidpdx]

253. About 4 weeks or so there were people who were screaming about the president

not signing an executive order immediately on DOMA despite the fact that it was pointed out the case was before the court. This was right after the Michelle Obama heckling incident where many on DU said it was appropriate to disrespect the FLOTUS even though she has no influence. I doubt any of those thuggish people will apologize now, they think it's beneath them.

[sibelian]

202. There are a lot of party loyalists who need emotions running high.

A good deal of what's posted from them is "appeal to context", which is legitimately applicable in only a few instances. When the appeal fails, they fall to redefining the nature of the context.

Largely speaking, one is encouraged to buy the assumption that the context is imposed and inescapable rather than constructed and chosen.

[emulatorloo]

219. And a lot of Karl Rove's Paid Fake "Progressives" stirring up shit when good things do happen

and their gullible synchophants who just eat that shit up.

[sibelian]

243. Well, I don't know about that.

I'm sure there are some people paid to post here. I think you could probably guess from the speed and structure of their posting...

They tend to post simplistic things rapidly and keep arguments going for as long as possible with highly functional posters to stop such posters from engaging in construcive criticism of issues elsewhere on the board. It's nowhere near as effective a strategy as some might like to think.

[emulatorloo]

244. That's an excellent analysis of the strategy

End result, no communication but lots of noise.

[Half-Century Man]

40. I don't think anyone suggested we won an ideal world.

We got a couple victories, we have the right to smile and pat each other on the back. and after a couple minutes, march on.

[OilemFirchen]

182. You have made very insightful observations.

You seem like a kind and thoughtful person, and I am much the better for sharing this message board with you. There was a time, not long ago, when I might have errantly assumed that you bear a grudge against our President, but I now see that you only want the best for him. I understand that he is like a little child who needs guidance from a loving but strict adult. My only hope is that he is humbled by your sage advice and shows improvement in his chosen career.

I would give you a hug if I could, and hope that my children have half of your compassion and erudition.

May God bless you.

[cynatnite]

7. VRA gone...

Don't get me wrong. We are headed in the right direction on many issues, but we've got problems still. Gutting VRA and the NSA scandal are two weights around our necks that are trying to drag us down.

[AtomicKitten]

39. Of course. but today is a good day with DOMA being struck down.

[cynatnite]

44. I will most definitely take the good days. :) n/t

[HardTimes99]

83. Any day (like today) when the cause of human equality and

Freedom is advanced is a most excellent day!

[Whisp]

8. k&R

[SidDithers]

20. Yeah, but apart from all that, what have the Romans done for us?...nt

Sid

[arely staircase]

27. perfect

nt

[JoePhilly]

58. LOL!!! Perfect.

[Recursion]

62. Well of course the ROADS! The roads go without saying! (nt)

[RC]

87. Provided a clue or two or three to where we ourselves are headed, if we are not careful?

[PoliticAverse]

26. 'Universal Health Care' isn't coming soon. n/t

[uponit7771]

33. Obama aint shit!! (he didn't light his hair on fire or nothin) /sarcasm <-cause this is needed here

[arely staircase]

49. lol

nt

[MattSh]

35. The Economy coming back...

What's that based on. The stock market?

Sorry, there much better indicators to the health of the economy than the stock market.

[arely staircase]

45. really?

The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index® Increases Again

25 Jun. 2013


NEW YORK, June 25, 2013…The Conference Board Consumer Confidence Index®, which had improved in May, increased again in June. The Index now stands at 81.4 (1985=100), up from 74.3 in May. The Present Situation Index increased to 69.2 from 64.8. The Expectations Index improved to 89.5 from 80.6 last month.

http://www.conference-board.org/data/consumerconfidence.cfm

economy has added more jobs than in Bush's 8 years

http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

[DesMoinesDem]

81. Really? The Consumer Confidence Index?

The same index that was at a 6 or 7 year high right before the bubble burst? At least people had jobs then to make them confident. Millions and millions of jobs are still needed to get us to where we were then, not to mention that many of the jobs being created today are low paying and part time.

[uponit7771]

51. jobs? regards

[DCBob]

42. Amazing how so many Democrats cant see that.

They are bashing the party that is protecting them from the wolves.

[AtomicKitten]

43. And brava! to Wendy Davis for showing Dems what a real filibuster looks like.

12:02 AM 6/26. Hooray for timestamps!

[arely staircase]

50. yep 12:02 am, baby!

sine die!

[SunSeeker]

135. +1

[Arcanetrance]

47. I'm very pleased with those things while there's still work to be done on other things

I would never equate both parties. The president isn't perfect and there are things I feel he could be a bit stronger on but Bush or any member of the republican party he's not.

[DevonRex]

72. That's great!

That's where we all are. Perfect doesn't exist, especially facing the challenges and opposition we face today.

[CakeGrrl]

54. K/R

These things would NEVER have happened under a GOP president.

[stevenleser]

56. Very well said. nt

[NCTraveler]

57. While I think there are two major flaws in your op...

I am reccing because your main point is great. The parties, on most issues, are worlds apart.

[librechik]

61. I love it--

nevertheless soon we will all be so happy in our little share-cubicles on smiley drugs and cable, under 24 hour surveillance.

Wait, what am i talking about? we already are

[think]

64. Obama inherited a nightmare, his recovery efforts were masterful, and it is a great start

I do hope it's only the beginning though. Bush and company set back America on so many fronts. And there will need to be much done if America is to remain a vibrant nation and a beacon of liberty.

That said today is truly historic and the supreme court ruling makes me proud to be an American.

[DesMoinesDem]

65. DOMA - gone because of the Supreme Court

Iraq War - ended following the Bush agreement, despite Obama trying to extend it.
Universal Health Care - not coming soon because Obama 'fixed' health care by forcing everyone to buy insurance from private companies.
Economy - still complete shit for the 99%, great for the 1%. Record number on disability, record number on food stamps.

[arely staircase]

68. beautiful

giving bush credit for ending the war was my favorite part

[DesMoinesDem]

71. Nothing I wrote is incorrect which is why you didn't try to refute any of it.

[arely staircase]

73. why would i want to try to refute something as pristine as that?

bragged on bush AND worked 99% into it. its a fucking work of art.

[DesMoinesDem]

77. LOL. When you can't refute, just make shit up!

[HangOnKids]

84. Where did the poster brag on Bush?

And the 99% is a very relevant topic. You sound confused.

[tridim]

80. !!!!!1111

[JI7]

181. you do know OBama appointed justices which helped to overturn that, and if Gore had been President

it would have been gone sooner . and yeterday's civil rights ruling would have gone the other way.

[uponit7771]

251. +1

[Hekate]

67. Kick! Rec! Love!

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

70. But but but, watch out....

The reality 2x4 is coming to smack ya right in the head.

Think about it.

Feel good for a day

Bless ya!

[harmonicon]

74. Universal healthcare is coming soon? When is "soon"? nt

[leftstreet]

75. Mandated Universal Health Insurance Premiums

I fixed that for you

[RC]

76. While DOMA and DADT may be gone, Universal Health Care still has a long way to go before we get that

Obamacare is not by any means anywhere close to Universal Health Care. For Universal Health Care to happen, we need to get rid of the greedy, parasitic health insurance companies that stand between us and our doctors. That has not changed under Obamacare.

The economy is coming back - for whom? The economy can't be coming back for most people, till we get our Living Wage Jobs back. And those Living Wage Jobs are not coming back until we get our manufacturing back.

[tridim]

79. There are many insurance companies that are playing ball...

and you know what? Thanks to the exchanges, it is resulting in lower costs for the consumer. HORRORS!!!!111

The ACA is brilliant in this respect, it's forcing competition and in the next year it will start forcing hospitals to reduce prices. It's baked into the law.

Think beyond your irrational hate of President Obama.

[Dawgs]

100. You wrote "there are many insurance companies that are playing ball"...

and in the same post accused others of being irrational.

Wow!

[tridim]

113. I guess you haven't read about inurance premiums falling in CA because of the ACA?

Because if you had you wouldn't say that.

Do you even know what the Exchanges are?

[Dawgs]

205. I did and the fact that you still believe insurance companies are playing ball scares me.

Anyone that would consider this republican written bill universal health care really needs to pull their head out of their ass.

[RC]

104. The health insurance companies ARE the problem.

Single Payer is the solution.
Obamacare is not the solution. Where is the Public Option? In fact Obamacare, as ACA is known as, actually makes it harder to fix the real health care problems in this country. Do you even know the history of where that health care plan came from? ACA is brilliant - for whom? The health insurance companies, because they wrote most of it.
Why is the United States the ONLY industrialized nation to not have some form of Single Payer, Universal Health Care.

I don't hate Obama. But I am apparently more rational than you, at least on these subjects. As someone else on this thread stated, Obama does not have to be all that good to exceed the low threshold of his predecessor. If Obama had been anywhere near as good as his campaign rhetoric, then I'd be much more enthusiastic about him. As it is, with all his caving to the Republicans and appointing Republicans, continuing most of bu$h politices, etc., leaves me less than enthusiastic about him. Where is his Bully Pulpit? Being better than his predecessor is not good enough in this case.

[tridim]

111. And they are the ones that will negotiate prices DOWN with hospitals.

Something you and I can't do.

The ACA is brilliant.

[liberal_at_heart]

114. Glad you have faith in those greedy corporatist bastards. I sure don't.

I give them $925 every month so I can have the priviledge of not going to the doctor because I can't afford the copays.

[tridim]

116. Your premiums will begin to go down as the ACA is implimented across the country.

It is already happening in California.

That is why the ACA was passed and is now the law.

[liberal_at_heart]

118. whatever you say. I'll believe it when I see it. I will also keep pushing for true Universal

Healthcare. We should pay a tax, go to the doctor, and walk out of the doctor's office without any premiums, deductibles, or copays. That is the way it should be, and I will not not stop fighting until that is what we have.

[tridim]

128. It is ALREADY HAPPENING IN CALIFORNIA

Gawd you people are dense.

[liberal_at_heart]

130. you don't pay my bills. I will believe it when my bill goes down.

[HangOnKids]

150. You people?

Exactly who are the you people that are dense?

[liberal_at_heart]

151. Those of us who don't worship Obama and his historic, epic, legendary ACA.

[Le Taz Hot]

194. No, actually, that is incorrect.

Nothing is in force in CA yet. Not until January 2014. According to the CoveredCalifornia chart, my husband and I will be paying over $1,000 a month to (like the poster above) NOT be able to afford the co-pays and that's with over $12,000 PER YEAR deductible NOT counting premiums and co-pays. OR we can pay to opt out, take half that money, put it into a savings account and hope like hell we don't get a catastrophic illness. How exactly is that better than what we have now which is nothing but at least it's free?

[RC]

121. Brauhahahahahahahahahahaha

:::gasping for air::: You're funny. And who will negotiate with the insurance companies to bring their prices down? The ACA will turn out to have more loop holes than Velcro.

[tridim]

125. You should really read the law sometime. nt

[LynneSin]

85. Yeah let's not worry about the fact that minorities are fucked

just saying.

[Demeter]

86. Excuse me--Universal Health Care is not on the agenda, let alone the horizon

Only some very honest and progressive people are still pushing for universal single payer health CARE.

What we are getting is a health INSURANCE TAX. Try not to confuse the two, because they are nothing at all alike.

The first keeps people alive and healthy. The second keeps insurance companies profitable.

.....................................

Meanwhile, the Stock Market Watch threads in the Economy Group will tell you more of what kind of economy we have, and what we can expect.

And it's not "coming back". By any stretch of the meaning of the phrase.


So, lots of circus, and no bread.

[Coccydynia]

90. Don't let the fact that DOMA is "gone"

By virtue of the conservative SCROTUS get in the way. Universal Health care? Not in this generation's lifetime. Iraq, gone by virtue of the deal BUSH signed.

Oh, and Voting Rights Act? GONE!

Facts matter.

[arely staircase]

97. or better yet, just fucking hate everything.

nt

[Coccydynia]

115. I love Bernie Sanders. I love Elizabeth Warren.

I love the end of DOMA. I love the end of Prop 8.

I love FACTS, and I hate sycophants.

[arely staircase]

119. obama suporters = sycophants?

welcome to DU

[Bobbie Jo]

254. Well

At least he knows how to spell Sanders.

[arely staircase]

255. an improvement

I will admit

[zeemike]

117. Yep....they throw a bone with one hand

And steal your wallet with the other....and then we are told it never happened because just look at that juicy bone we got.
The truth is that they don't give a shit about gay rights....but they do care about stooping black and poor people from voting...and we see that,

[Coccydynia]

156. Same thing happened with DADT.

Here's DADT, thank you for shielding me from backlash of extending Bush tax theft.

Truman integrated the army WITHOUT congress. Obama couldn't?

[zeemike]

162. And Obama could have closed Gitmo the same way

But we had Bad Cop to hold up as an excuse for it.
People are so easy to manipulate.

[Coccydynia]

177. Wow. A kindred spirit.

But yes, there is much bad cop/lesser bad cop going on.

Oh well ...

[Zoeisright]

131. As usual, you completely miss the point.

Do you think that DOMA would be gone if McCain had won in '08? Do you think there would be ANY health care reform at ALL if McCain had won in '08? Do you think the two wars would be ended if McCain had been elected in '08? The point here is that there are HUGE differences between Democrats and fucking repukes.

It's whiners like you that give liberals a bad name. Suck it up.

[Coccydynia]

157. A case makes it to the Supremes INDEPENDENT of POTUS

And yes, RomneyCare would be the law of the land because it was REPUBLICAN plan.

When Democrats are in power I expect Democratic policies, not weak tea Republican policies.

Maybe I just aim higher.

[jeff47]

222. Here, lemme help.

How do people get on the Supreme Court? It just might have something to do with the occupant of the white house.

As for the ACA, your theory runs into the little problem of every single Republican voting against it.

[Coccydynia]

223. I understand how a justice lands on the court.

So maybe you have a point, maybe not. Some of our most liberal justices were Republican appointees, such as former Justice Blackmun.

As for the zero votes for Obamacare. That is only because it was Obama-care. History teaches us that before it wa Obamacare it was Romneycare, and before it was Romneycare it was Gringrichcare, and before it was Gingrichcare it was shat out by the right wing stink tank Heritage Foundation.

Facts matter.

[LittleBlue]

186. The Iraqis kicked us out after Obama tried to stay

But this is being represented as an "accomplishment"

What a farce

[liberal_at_heart]

92. I pay $925/month in medical insurance premiums. We do not have Universal Healthcare.

And both parties are the same on education which happens to be my single issue, but I am very happy that DOMA is gone. I'm still not voting for any democrat not willing to fully fund public education, but today is a good day. Today is a day to celebrate.

[forestpath]

94. Both parties want to cut Social Security and food stamps.

[Dawgs]

101. "Universal Health Care"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[quinnox]

109. that is the one that got me too

Universal Health Care? Seriously?? That is not the traditional definition of health insurance given by greedy for-profit- insurance companies....

[cantbeserious]

102. Economy, Not So Much

eom

[Orsino]

106. Nope. Economic inequality is still widening.

The president has managed to keep some important promises, however, despite the most corrupt Congress in history.

[cantbeserious]

214. Roger That On Income Inequality

eom

[arely staircase]

274. actually, there is some good news on income

By Shobhana Chandra - Jun 27, 2013
Consumer spending in the U.S. rebounded in May following the largest drop in more than three years, a sign the biggest part of the economy will underpin growth this quarter.

Household purchases, which account for about 70 percent of the economy, rose 0.3 percent after a 0.3 percent decline the prior month that was the biggest since September 2009, Commerce Department figures showed today in Washington. Incomes (PITLCHNG) advanced 0.5 percent, more than projected.
The report may help ease concern about the outlook for the economic expansion after data yesterday showed household purchases rose at a slower pace than previously estimated in the first quarter. Rising home prices and an improving job market, combined with faster income gains, may help to accelerate spending in the last six months of 2013.

“Consumer spending will continue to be the driver of the recovery,” said Tom Simons, an economist at Jefferies LLC in New York, who accurately predicted the gain in purchases. “The second half looks better. The labor market is continuing to improve. The housing rebound will help as well.”

Read more: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-27/consumer-spending-in-u-s-rebounds-as-incomes-increase.html

[Orsino]

275. Beside the point.

We can usually find bits of good economic news, even at the worst of times.

Income inequality worsening, however, is terrible news that continues to undermine what we like to call "recovery."

[arely staircase]

276. good news is never beside the point

these are good numbers.

[Orsino]

278. Yes. Yes, it sometimes is beside the point.

Especially at those times when it's used to make those left behind disappear.

I give the president and our party good marks as significantly better stewards of a fundamentally unfair and untenable system. I won't even hate on those who need something--anything, really--to celebrate.

We aren't moving at all on some key issues, however, and the resultant worsening of inequality is partly the fault of us on the left side of the aisle. It's measurable human misery, and must not be forgotten.

[arely staircase]

279. granted, for some people it always is

nt

[Dawgs]

105. Economy - coming back????

Ha!

[NoOneMan]

108. Universal Health Care?!?

Wow. By coming soon, do you mean like in 100 years? Or have we really lowered the bar that far?

[woo me with science]

110. What utter bullshit from the Third Way Ministry of Propaganda.

Last edited Wed Jun 26, 2013, 04:10 PM - Edit history (10)

The ONLY area in which we are seeing real positive change is the social issues that the One Percent could not care less about. That is by design, to keep the country focused on Red Versus Blue and fighting each other instead of the ones who are systematically building a corporate authoritarian state and dismantling our Constitutional protections in the process. Let's look at the ACTUAL policies and what is ACTUALLY on the horizon.

In EVERY SINGLE POLICY AREA IMPORTANT TO THE ONE PERCENT, we are under assault, and our lives and those of our children are being sold for the profit of the Plutonomy. Yes, under a Democratic administration.

In education, we have Arne and Race to the Top and high stakes testing and corporatization and privatization and massive public school closings.

In the area of the environment, we are expected to applaud pretty speeches on climate change and a few solar panels on the White House, while the administration concurrently signals plans to move ahead with the disastrous Keystone Pipeline. We get more drilling and fracking, regulations on businesses have been gutted, and the Gulf of Mexico is being sold.

In economic policy, President Obama now openly welcomes corporate thief Penny Pritzker into the administration, to join a defender of torture and surveillance, a Monsanto shill, and a Justice Dept head who fights for warrantless surveillance, strip searches, assaults on medical marijuana clinics, and targeting of whistleblowers, while letting criminal bankers off the hook.

What is on the horizon for economic policy, in this country which has allowed criminal bankers to gut and suck dry the middle class? Why, austerity budgets, of course! The Bush/Obama tax cuts have now largely been made permanent, and our President looks forward to a new GRAND BARGAIN with trillions in austerity for our cities, where infrastructure is already crumbling....and devastating cuts in services across the board for the American people. And the cherry on the assault is his unconscionable call for cuts in the fundamental safety net of Social Security. And this "universal health care" you speak of? It's a Heritage Foundation mandate to purchase from the bloodsucking, for-profit health insurance industry. A mandate for millions of Americans to purchase bronze level, outrageously expensive insurance plans that they still cannot afford to use and that will still land them in medical bankruptcy.

Our Democratic Administration has overseen the militarization of our police departments, grants to proliferate drones in US skies, and a spying infrastructure whose capabilities dwarf that of any previous totalitarian state. It is waging a war on whistleblowers in government and exposure of government abuse by the free press by criminalizing behaviors that define investigative journalism. Those who protest peacefully can now expect to be surveilled and labeled as potential terrorists. And the President has overturned the protections of the Magna Carta and claimed the right to indefinitely detain or even kill those suspected of terrorism, in the absence of any transparent due process. First Amendment. Fourth Amendment. Our Constitution is being sold and dismantled for profit.

The Military Industrial Complex metastasizes. War drums are beating in Syria, and the Project for the New American Century continues apace, with the US starting proxy drone wars all over the Middle East in countries where we are not "technically" at war, slaughtering civilians, double-tapping first responders. And now we have a growing cyberwar industrial complex too....and a war with Iran waiting in the wings. Guantanamo stands as a monument to war crimes as the US government tortures detainees with forced feeding.

This administration is aggressively growing private prisons in this country and promising those who profit from the imprisonment of human beings that fill rates will increase and grow stock portfolios. And those corporate profiteers can depend on the drug wars to ensure those prisons are kept full. The Justice Department is targeting marijuana clinics, while serial criminal bankers and thieves who have driven millions into poverty are protected and continue their crimes, thumbing their noses at the American people. Financial regulations are being gutted and corporate power further increased, under a Democratic administration.

The gap between rich and poor is *escalating* rather than decreasing. One out of four American children lives in poverty now, a rate on a par with Romania. *At least three out of four of us* live precariously from paycheck to paycheck. Wages are being held at pre-1980 levels, the new touted "jobs" are still below pre-recession levels and increasingly include jobs without benefits. And the devastating real numbers show that the "recovery" reflects growth of wealth in the top one percent *and not anywhere else.* ALL...yes, ALL new gains continue to be funneled to the top one percent.

And what is on the horizon? Besides the promised austerity for millions of Americans who have already been pillaged out of the middle class? The Trans-Pacific Free Trade Assault, which will give corporations powers previously reserved for sovereign nations, kill countless jobs in this country, and further despicably lower the standard of living of Americans who are already, by the millions, becoming desperate and impoverished.

No, we are not on the right track. Not at all. Not by any sane measure. We are being actively shoved into corporate serfdom by the One Percent who have purchased our government to help them run this country like their own personal profit farm. What we are experiencing is nothing less than the careful construction of a corporate authoritarian state. Those who now own the halls of our government have purchased mosf of the media in this country and are now aggressively moving to clamp down on what remains of our free press.

And what are they building to take its place? A despicable, omnipresent, relentless corporate propaganda machine. Because that is what authoritarian states have instead of a free press. We see it operative now in our mainstream media and across the internet, including here at DU, to tell us that everything is just fine...that the assaults on all of us that we see and experience every single day are not really happening. And to encourage us to "discuss" with sensible corporatists the ASSAULTS on our fundamental constitutional rights and protections.

Propaganda is how corporate-authoritarian governments roll. War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

And the chocolate ration is being increased all around us, everywhere.


Incomes Flat in Recovery, but Not for the 1%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014400736

Top 1% get 121% of income gains since 2009 (100% of new income + 21% from your old income)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022384139

U.S. corporate profits stronger than ever, workers' wages fallen to lowest-ever share of GDP (CNN)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922334

U.S. Income Inequality Now Worse Than Many Latin American Countries
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268073

Ranks of working poor increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022200197

Inequality Rages as Dwindling Wages Lock Millions in Poverty
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022198286

The Middle Class In America Is Being Wiped Out – Here Are 60 Facts That Prove It
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022144851

Child poverty rates increase unabated
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022268450

40 Percent of Americans Now Make Less than 1968 Minimum Wage
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111631016

Corporate Profits Have Grown By 171 Percent Under ‘Anti-Business’ Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014372334

US poverty on track to reach 46-year high; suburbs, underemployed workers, children hit hard
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002998131

Poverty, hunger among retirees increasing
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002748342

The Economy is "Recovering" By Creating More Low-Wage Jobs... Increasingly Filled By Graduates
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022602162

"Recovery" in US is lifting profits, but not adding jobs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014414149

Obama to use pension funds of ordinary Americans to pay for bank mortgage settlements
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002205218

What Recovery? Across America, People in Distressed Cities and Small Towns Face Economic Catastrophe
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022545596

Real wages decline; literally no one notices
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11172387

Wall Street Soars with Wealth as Wages Stagnate, Jobs Remain in a Slump
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12526154

Wages for bottom 90% declined 1.2% during 2009-2011 recovery, top 1% income grew 8.2%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022271466

Three Minimum Wage Jobs Needed To Afford Two-Bedroom Apartment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022578738

Wages have fallen to a record low as a share of America’s gross domestic product.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022183930

The Real Numbers: Half of America in Poverty -- and It's Creeping toward 75%
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002290698

Chilling Legal Memo From Obama DOJ Justifies Assassination of US Citizens
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654954

Obama seeks longer PATRIOT Act extension than Republicans (December 2013)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x380450

When it comes to civil liberties, apparently Democrats are just as bad as Republicans.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022101960

NSA's Massive New Spy Center to Track Your Emails, Internet Activity, and Phone Calls
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101620852

Obama Quietly Signs Abusive Spy Bill He Once Vowed to Eliminate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022104861

Obama repeals Magna Carta, asserting powers our forefathers denied to Kings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101655620

Obama's Memo on Killing Americans Twists 'Imminent Threat' Like Bush
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101654919

Obama no better than Bush when it comes to security vs. civil liberties.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022355307

Obama Admin Seeks Permission TO LIE In Response To FOI Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303

NDAA on trial: Obama Administration fights ban on indefinite detention of Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101748688

Obama administration complicit with private prison industry: President Obama's IncarcerNation
http://www.nationofchange.org/president-obama-s-incarcernation-1335274655

Obama, Democrats Push to Make Bush Spying Laws Permanent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084702

NDAA, signed by Obama, is a direct attack against legitimate protest and dissent
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022064803

NSA Whistleblower: All Americans under constant surveillance, all info. stored, no matter the post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002193487; http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021935289

Bipartisan Congress Disgracefully Approves the FISA Warrantless Spying Bill for Five More Years
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022087323

While Public & Media Focused on 2nd Amendment, 5th Amendment Quietly Dismantled
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022390581

How the Obama administration justifies extrajudicial killing of Americans,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022318187

Judge Says Under Law Executive Branch Can Commit Acts That Sure Do Seem Unconstitutional
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022122464

Obama Justice Dept. says wiretap lawsuit should not proceed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014337039

NDAA Lawsuit- Hedges v. Obama, The Last Thin Line of Defense
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022357078

Federal authorities step up efforts to license surveillance drones for law enforcement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022383596

Big Banks and FBI worked together vs Occupy
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022095056]

FBI Investigated 'Occupy' As Possible 'Domestic Terrorism' Threat, Internal Documents Show
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022061578

FBI Documents Reveal Secret Nationwide Occupy Monitoring (Updated the OP)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022057064

Public Buses Across Country Quietly Adding Microphones to Record Passenger Conversations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021965291

Street artist behind satirical NYPD 'Drone' posters arrested
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021920967

The Obama DOJ urged the Supreme Court's endorsement of strip searches.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002521527

Obama Administration Fights to Allow Warrantless GPS Tracking
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1074474

Anonymous to FBI: hey, dudes, maybe you could take a break from...investigating activists....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022145621

Half a billion dollars for drones to spy on Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021876414

From Bradley Manning to Aaron Swartz -- The Government's Inhumane Persecution of Brave Truth Tellers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276941

The sight of Army helicopters and the sound of gunfire...on Houston's south side
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022276742

Kiriakou and Stuxnet: the danger of the still-escalating Obama whistleblower war
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275570

Can the DEA Hide a Surveillance Camera on Your Property?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022237059

Social Media and the Stasi
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021888029

Homeland Security Wants to More Than Double Its Predator Drone Fleet Inside the US, Despite Safety/Privacy Invasions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014312823

CIA Behind Bizarre Censorship Incident At Alleged 9/11 Plotters’ Gitmo Trial
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022280285

“I Am Wearing My Conviction As A Badge Of Honor.”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022275128

Meet the Contractors Turning America's Police Into a Paramilitary Force
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525281

How Secrecy Corrodes Democracy
http://election.democraticunderground.com/101655009

Obama Quietly Issues Ruling Saying It's Legal For The FBI To Break The Law
http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7545687

US Pulls Plug on Iran Cable News (Press TV)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014394770

DHS Watchdog OKs 'Suspicionless' Seizure of Electronic Devices Along Border
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022339091


And this list does not yet even include the devastating confirmations and revelations of this month.

[NorthCarolina]

133. Excellent response

and quite informative. Recommend!

[liberal_at_heart]

141. wow. fantastic post. Thank you for mentioning Race to the Top.

[Nay]

145. Thank you, Woo, for writing a post that I was too tired to write. (Mine wouldn't have been as

comprehensive, either.)

My main comment would have been that the 99% has won a victory that the 1% couldn't give a flying shit about (gay rights) while we continue to be raped and pillaged by dozens of other victories for the 1%. It is mind-blowingly obvious -- they throw us a (finger) bone, while continuing to chop up the rest of our skeletons. It's sorta like the old joke about how nice the mugger is: he takes your wallet, but hey, he gives you back a buck for bus fare to get home!!!

[mountain grammy]

155. Holy shit, guess I should've voted for Rmoney!

[liberal_at_heart]

160. how about a democrat who will fight for campaign finance reform?

I don't see Romney nor our bought democrats fighting for campaign finance reform. Hell they still get to participate in insider trading for goodness sake.

[mountain grammy]

185. ok, let's nominate one. Meantime, I'll back the one I got!

cause he's way better than the other choice and I've approved of much of what he's done. I wish I had time to list them all here but guess I don't have enough anger to keep me up all night.

[liberal_at_heart]

189. go ahead. I'm not going to tell you not to. But I'm done supporting democrats who support a

corporatist agenda.

[mountain grammy]

221. I support Democrats, regardless. In America today, I have to.

but I send money and volunteer for the true liberal Dems. The others I just vote for.. because, really, I have to.
A long, long time ago we had a Republican state rep who was the most honest, fair minded person I knew. I voted for him every time he ran. He retired. No Republican since has got my vote. The Dems may be corporate, but they're better. They're human and they do listen.
I write my corporate Democratic Congressmen all the time and they vote the way I expect them to most of the time. Of course, there's the occasional anti labor, pro corporate votes that send me to my telephone, but, for the most part they vote with me. The Republican Congressmen from my state almost never do.. they are teabagger idiots with Lamborn being the Gohmert of Colorado.

[Amonester]

273. +1000

Thanks for posting this!

[Liberal Veteran]

199. Well, there is always "The List" (insert dramatic derision music here).

The list of Obama's accomplishments is somehow all crap but every little nitpick and gripe is the holy writ.

I'm sure we need a strong contingent of folks who never take joy in the progress we make, but they don't have to come to the party just to place a turd in the punch bowl.

[mountain grammy]

227. Agree. Personally, I think the ACA will be a good start towards real universal health care.

I think state by state will adopt single payer and prove it works, but in the meantime the worst practices and unmitigated greed of the health insurance industry will be reigned in.
I am lucky and have Medicare. Last time I checked the exchanges in Co., we should be able to insure my husband and daughter for about $500/month and we will qualify for federal subsidies.
When my husband lost his job and benefits in 2009, the federal stimulus subsidized our COBRA to the tune of $1000/month. We scraped together $500/month for the rest, enabling my daughter to continue medical care. Thanks Obama and the Democratic Congress of 2009.

[liberal_at_heart]

229. well I'm glad you have had such a positive experience. Not all of us are so lucky.

Right now I'm paying $925/month in insurance premiums and the copays go to collections. My father just dropped everything but hospital coverage on his Medicaire plan because he couldn't make the premium on that. We are a long, long, long, long way away from having universal healthcare, and letting the insurance companies help write the ACA will only make that much longer before we do. Like I said I would never tell you how to vote. I wish I could say I receive the same courtesy from other democrats(not you, just saying some democrats try to bully others into who to vote for). I have become a single issue voter, that issue being education. I will only vote for democrats willing to restore full funding to public education, and unfortunately right now, I don't see any democrats willing to do that.

[mountain grammy]

238. Education is an important issue for me too and as soon as I find a candidate who will fully restore

funding for education, I will vote for him/her. Meantime I will vote for Democratic candidates who will at least try to restore some funding. Republicans only want to cut more out of education.
As for Medicare. Premiums are about $100/month and are subsidized if you can't afford them. Please look into that.
With the new ACA, premiums will also be subsidized.

Our politicians are still subject to public opinion. Keep nagging them and hammering them. You are a constituent.

[Marr]

168. +1

[zeemike]

171. +1

Reality can be problematic to the cult of personality.

[ProSense]

176. Thanks, Obama:

Thanks, Obama >> updated, Edith Windsor reacts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023101179

I notice people seem to love the wall of "blue links" you post...ad nauseum.

[ProSense]

187. Speaking of "propaganda"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2908803
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2604246
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2640706
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2641045
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2762452
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2762454
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2908479

[Corruption Inc]

240. +1, although to me it was more like a Miss America contestant answer

totally void of any intellectual capabilities. I think a political operative would probably be a tad bit smarter/manipulative unless the message was aimed at an extremely uneducated audience which, it definitely seems to resonate with, LOL!

I wonder when the new billionaire Commerce Sec. is going to institute universal health care, LMFAO!

[arely staircase]

271. wow, you put a lot of time into all that.

just about ran out of adjectives.

[Orsino]

277. One tiny caveat.

The social issues you mentioned are indeed things the one-per centers care about, or should care about, as they've been used to divide us.

As rallying points for pinheads, equality is important. When the Right loses ground, it does eventually hit them in their campaign finances, and costs them key votes that have helped the one percent to rule us.

[Fearless]

112. DOMA was the SJC, DADT was an appellate court, the Iraq War is still being waged, and health care

Will be a farce. Companies will simply not employ full time if they don't want to offer insurance.

[Phlem]

120. But But But

your a racist hater.

Obama is the President!

[Hotler]

122. Defend this......

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3094669

[forestpath]

174. Now *there's* a stinky turd in the punchbowl!

And that's who Obama truly stands with. People like Penny Pritzker.

[Zoeisright]

129. Fuckin' A.

[Rex]

136. Don't worry, I never let anyone else make up my mind for me.

nt.

[SunSeeker]

137. K & R

[The Straight Story]

142. Like any president there are things he does I like and things I don't

Just because I complain about one does not mean I don't like the other - and I sure won't keep quiet either way

[Bake]

144. Universal Health Care is a long way from coming.

I hate to say it, but just being realistic.

Bake

[Jamaal510]

146. It's official:

if you want more jobs, better health care, and less wars, vote Democratic. If none of that appeals to you, vote Republican.

[mountain grammy]

149. I have my issues with the President, but will rec this post

because both parties are not the same. Obama is a working president, unlike Congress and completely unlike the last regime.
Yes, I want Medicare for all, single payer health care, but the ACA is much needed regulation of the health insurance industry and they will comply because if they don't we will get Medicare for all. It's a step.
I can't even imagine McCain or Rmoney running the country. Can anyone here? Do you really think Obama hasn't made a difference?
Obama wasn't my first choice, but I do trust his intelligence and instinct and find myself agreeing with him more and more. I know we are a lot better off than we would be with a Republican in charge.

[Corruption Inc]

241. Yes, I can imagine some criminal republicans running the country

and then being allowed to walk freely among us as we're told to "look forward". Oh wait, that's already happened.

[LWolf]

159. Of course both parties aren't the same.

They are both, though, controlled by the same corporate interests.

Universal Health Care is no closer than it has been my entire 53 years. The ACA is not about health CARE, but about insurance, which is still not going to be affordable for many. Health CARE will still be all about insurance company profits, not patients.

[villager]

163. 4th Amendment gone, stable climate going, corporate surveillance state coming...

Still plenty of serious work to do...

[Marr]

173. Don't you think it's a little distasteful to try to claim this as an Obama accomplishment?

Obama can hardly be said to have led on this issue. He just (rather reluctantly) got on board after the general public had come around to the fact that gays are people, too. I credit activists and a whole lot of other everyday people for that.

What's more, this was a Supreme Court decision. Obama wasn't involved in any way. So unless you want to also blame him for what's happened to the Voting Rights Act, I don't see how you can credit him with this.

The economy has only been rescued for the 1%. And Universal Healthcare? Are you kidding me?

[Liberal Veteran]

192. President Obama instructed the DOJ to stop defending DOMA.

Credit where credit is due.

[liberal_at_heart]

193. The DOJ does whatever the hell they want to. They ignore Obama's directives all the time.

[arely staircase]

220. nope

nt

[treestar]

248. Oh so there IS a separation of powers

With Obama supposed to control Congress, I didn't know it was admitted that the judiciary was separate.

So that means Obama is not at fault for the VRA being gutted?

[Marr]

250. What are you talking about?

I didn't say Obama controlled Congress.

I said the OP is giving Obama credit for a Supreme Court decision, which they are.

[treestar]

256. So you are not one of those blaming Obama that there is no single payer plan

or that Congress won't close Gitmo. Good to know.

[malaise]

178. But you'd never know reading GD here at DU

[Dawson Leery]

183. k/r

[Phlem]

191. this article seems to be at odds with your assertion of our economy.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014516695

Unless you mean we're coming back from the dead.

-p

[lapfog_1]

196. but but but

he SPIED on us... recording all of our phone calls!!! (err, phone call records)...

And all of our facebook postings!!! (did anyone really believe that they were PRIVATE)

and stuff...

he is WORSE THAN BUSH* (posted here on DU - and no, I'm not citing the post)


need I add -

[Buzz Clik]

203. All those unfulfilled promises, like teaching us all how drill a jumpshot.

[Cha]

224. I never do, arely, I never do!

thanks for highlighting just some of the reasons.

Reality on Climate Change and the difference of Voting Rights for all.. Food stamps, EPA, DOE, Iran..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3096829

[DonCoquixote]

226. And you know what

One the one hand, the NSA still needs to be castrated.

On the other, watch people talk about PBO as if nothing got done.

[City Lights]

230. When is Universal Health Care coming?

I haven't heard about this. Eager to hear details.

[Phlem]

231. How's he doing on jobs?

Oh wait a minute, he just signed another FTA.



I've been barely able make ends meet for his terms and I see a lot of my well abled, work mates in the computer field have no luck, Oh don't tell me all the obstructionisms goings on right? Didn't they used to call that stone walling about 30 years ago, like it's something new all of a sudden.

-p

[great white snark]

235. Thanks. Too bad your hopeful OP was (unsuccessfully) hijacked by a few of the perpetually miserable.

It's a good day FFS.

[Liberal Veteran]

245. This is my feeling about today.

[treestar]

249. Perpetually miserable is right

I kinda hope they are trolls in that I would hate to think that a person could live with that kind of negativity on a daily basis.

[Corruption Inc]

239. LOL, "universal health care, economy coming back"

The economy might be doing well if there was universal health care, BUT THERE ISN'T.

I heard peace in the Middle East is coming soon too, from a Miss America contestant who barely had the ability to form a sentence, LOL!

[Number23]

257. I like the way you think!

[Taverner]

258. Four out of five ain't bad

Universal Health Care ended up being a minor tweak

Don't get me wrong, Obama has been VERY GOOD on certain things

He's also been VERY BAD on others

I think if I were to compare him to any other President, it would be LBJ

[Historic NY]

259. Obama is such a slacker...........

[MNBrewer]

261. DOMA not gone

section 2 still very much in effect.

[DCBob]

265. right... so resume the bashing.

[Kolesar]

269. A thread like this *is* going to attract the DU trolls...eom

[MNBrewer]

280. Wouldn't want to let factual inaccuracies be perpetuated on DU.

[1-Old-Man]

268. 4.5 Accomplishments in 5.5 years

I am not gay so your number 1 is of little to no consequence to me. I am not in the military so your number 2 means little to nothing to me. George Bush set the timetable for the end of the war in Iraq, not Obama, and it is a gross exaggeration to say that we have Universal Health Care. As for the economy, it is just like the tides, it comes in and it goes out, independent of the Presidency.

But we have a war in Afghanistan, gun violence rages across the country, elections are stolen with regularity and there is no intervention by the Administration. Bankers rip and rob at will and our intelligence community is out of control. Our infrastructure is crumbling and our education (not to mention our election) system has become a joke.

So much that could be done hasn't been addressed while so many trivial things are blown up out of all rational proportion in order to aggrandize people who rightfully should be thrown out of office.

[Rooting for the Dems]

270. Agreed!

He's not perfect but he's on our side 9 times out of 10. The other side is against us 10 times out of 10, including on NSA spying. I hope that's clear to all my DU pals. Criticize when necessary -- it's good for all of us -- but don't ever lose sight of the big picture.