First responding cop testifies: GZ's nose was "bloody". "Lacerations" and "contusions" on his head

[adric mutelovic]

His name is Tim Smith.

Smith testified he handcuffed Zimmerman at gunpoint and confiscated Zimmerman's gun. Other officers arrived and began CPR on Trayvon, he said.

Smith said he saw that Zimmerman’s clothes were wet, his nose was bloody and there were lacerations and contusions to his head.

A firefighter/EMT who attended Zimmerman (Stacy Livingstone) said what she saw:

"Livingston also treated Zimmerman, who she said had a "very swollen, bleeding nose" and two cuts to the back of his head. He declined to be taken to a hospital, she said."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/trayvon-martin/os-george-zimmerman-trial-day-15-20130628,0,7092519.story

This is devastating for the prosecution, unless they plan to use the Zimmerman-hurt-himself theory endorsed by some on the internet, which is weird, to say the least.

[NoOneMan]

1. Devastating?

The guy chased down a stranger he identified as an "asshole" in an effort to force a confrontation, and ended up shooting them.

Im not sure why its relevant that he got his ass kicked by a teenager

[adric mutelovic]

2. Be aware that very few agree with you that he got his ass kicked

And I mean very few of those who see Zimmerman as guilty.

The fact that you contradicted the majority of those against Zimmerman proves the point that this was devastating testimony.

[NoOneMan]

4. What the hell are you talking about?

Knock knock, I'm not buying the bullshit.

[HockeyMom]

13. Should be a lot of dead people

if all you needed was a blow to the face or nose to pull out a gun and shoot them. Force equal to force. Unless you are a 3rd degree black belt, a bloody nose or black eye should not equal shooting somebody over that.

[Hoyt]

52. I hope to heck Trayvon hit that worthless armed bigot hard before being murdered.

[arcane1]

56. Zimmerman has a lot of new friends here desperate to defend him n/t

[NoOneMan]

59. And all their new argument frankly suck

[yardwork]

66. One of them explained that there is a lot of money to be made

If the defense gets Zimmerman off the will be famous and will command very high fees for their next murder cases. That kind of money buys a lot of AstroTurf.

[upaloopa]

3. he was armed Martin was not why should Martin not fight

for his life? What is wrong here is the stand your ground law. That law gives a person the right to shoot some who they couldn't beat in a fist fight.

[NoOneMan]

6. This creates the biggest murder loophole I've ever heard of

Start a confrontation, make sure you get hit a few times, and then murder someone with a get out of jail free card

[adric mutelovic]

24. Let's hope the prosecution proves Zimmerman started the confrontation

If your point is to be proved. A lot of circular argument going on here/

[NoOneMan]

29. He chased the teenager down to initiate the confrontation. That is acknowledged by both parties

That is corroborated both by Zimmerman's 911 call and by the calls Martin had with his friend.

Are you suggesting Martin chased Zimmerman down and confronted Zimmerman? Maybe Martin brought the gun. Did Martin shoot himself too?

[Xyzse]

35. Stalking someone proves intent of confrontation.

If he didn't want a confrontation, he wouldn't have chased him down.

Zim was not in uniform was he? If not, there are no identifying markings that show he is part of law enforcement or of a watch.

Did he immediately identify himself as part of neighborhood watch? I don't believe he ever mentioned identifying himself.

From what I am seeing, he failed to identify himself twice which could have difused the situation if he was really not looking to start a confrontation.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

71. Oh, I'm sure you "hope" (n/m)

[DCBob]

8. +1

Martin should also have the right to stand his ground to fight back when pursued by some nut with a gun.

[Travis_0004]

69. They are not using stand your ground as a defense in this case.

[Captain Stern]

74. This isn't a 'stand your ground case'. That law isn't being applied (nt)

[sinkingfeeling]

5. How is it devastating? These are prosecution witnesses.

[adric mutelovic]

10. That's bad logic

It's what people say, not who brought them to the stand, what needs to be analyzed.

Otherwise news outlets and us would easily figure out who was good for the defense (defense witnesses) and good for the prosecution (prosecution witnesses).

Also, was Rachel Jeantel good for the prosecution simply because she was a prosecution witness? Or is is possible that she was bad for the prosecution?

Another example: If a defense witness sucks and contradicts himself/herself, or whatever, would you say he was awesome anyway because he is a defense witness?

One more example: We all agree that the knock knock joke by a defense lawyer didn't help the defense. It was tasteless and unhelpful.

Should we say the knock knock joke was good because he is a pro-defense lawyer?

[sinkingfeeling]

22. So, how it's devastating. The truth of what happened isn't devastating.

All this is doing is pointing out that different people thought they saw different things or heard different things. The prosecution never said that Zimmerman wasn't bleeding from his nose. That would have been inane since there are pictures.

[Whisp]

7. Is this the cop that was blinking once a second?

That is a sign of lying.

These the cops that just let Zimmer go and it wasn't until the media made a deal of it that they had to face things.

Please remember, those police officers did not do their jobs and will try to hide that.

[johnp3907]

18. Excellent point.

[monmouth3]

9. What about that video supposedly showing Z coming into the Police Station after all of this

happened? He didn't have a mark on him, certainly no blood on his face. The one cop checked the back of his head and that was it. That needs to be introduced if it's real.

[solara]

65. Exactly what I was thinking

[Travis_0004]

70. He was cleaned up at the crime scene.

By then the bleeding has stopped, so if it was wiped off before arriving at the police station, then there would be no blood.

[geek tragedy]

11. If that's devastating, no NHL team should visit Florida.

One cross-checking penalty, and they can shoot you!

Also, "he declined to be taken to the hospital."

Couldn't have been that badly hurt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

16. Did you see the Panthers play last season?

[geek tragedy]

25. No. Even worse, I may have start watching the Islanders when they move to Brooklyn nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

12. Everything is "devastating" for the prosecution for you, apparently.

Of course, Zimmerman's testimony was that his head was bashed into concrete repeatedly.

Until someone testifies that his wounds were consistent with that story, evidence of lesser injuries sustained by Zimmerman isn't "devastating."

Wait until Detective Sorino testifies and get back to me, mmkay?

[adric mutelovic]

17. Do you know what "everything" means?

That was a rhetorical question.

[marshall]

27. I thought testimony today supported that

The neighbor said Trayvon was straddling the defendant and that he saw downward movements. That could be consistent with either pummeling with fists or bashing into the ground.

Now this first responder testifies about the injuries to the defendant, present at the scene.

It does seem like the prosecution does not have a handle on its witnesses, but I assume they have some rhyme to their reason.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

36. I was out during Good's testimony.

I do know that he testified he though Trayvon was on top, but from what I've read of the testimony, he didn't actually see Zimmerman's head being bashed into concrete.

Did they ask Good if he witnessed the person on bottom (in his belief, Zimmerman) with his head near the concrete sidewalk?

[marshall]

42. He just said he saw downward movement

I guess it will be left to the jury to decide what that means, in connection to the injuries.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

44. Detective Sorino should have some interesting testimony. nt

[chillfactor]

67. Has it occured to anyone...

that the downward movements could have been the result of Trayvon trying to wrestle the the gun away from Zimmerman?

[arely staircase]

50. another witness testified the person on top

is the one who got up after the shot

[warrior1]

14. If zimmerman was assuming Trayvon was up to no good, ie: These fucking punks always get away.

Why then can Trayvon assume that zimmerman was a rapist. Then when zimmerman came up on him, Trayvon fought for his life.

Trayvon was defending himself.

Trayvon was allowed to be in that neighborhood.

Trayvon was had a right for free movement in that neighborhood.

Zimmerman violated Trayvon's civil rights.

Zimmerman is guilty of murder.

[KamaAina]

47. Only sworn law enforcement officers can be charged with civil rights violations

that's how the feds go after killer cops in the many, many jurisdictions where DAs refuse to even charge them.

And Zimmerman was certainly not a sworn law enforcement officer.

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. Why can't Trayvon Martin protect himself?

The idea that the pursuer got a bloody nose is not devastating.

Self defense goes both ways. Trayvon was being pursued by a crazy little man who was trying to make himself bigger by stalking kids while carrying a weapon.

Trayvon has the right to protect himself. A bloody nose is not something to be shot over. He could have stopped following the kid anytime and he chose instead to confront him.

He was menacing and threatening and then shot him.

[adric mutelovic]

20. Can you add "lacerations" and "contusions" to "bloody nose"

For some reason it sounds as if you're leaving stuff out when mentioning Zimmerman's injuries.

[HappyMe]

30. lol!

Bloody nose vs. DEAD.

[Evergreen Emerald]

38. I get lacerations and contusions while mowing the lawn

The "injuries" Zimmerman received while hunting this kid are minimal.

Again: he got himself into this fight--he cannot now claim self defense (in normal states) if he starts the fight.

This whole argument is crazy. We are letting the defense drag us into the weeds while ignoring the big picture. I hope the jury does not let the defense distract them from the real issues.

[HangOnKids]

41. For Some Reason You Are Leaving Out That Zim Murdered Trayon

Hope that helps the rest of your arguments!

[HappyMe]

21. Exactly.

Trayvon lived in that neighborhood and had as much right to 'stand your ground' as zimmy did.

If I lived there I just might consider getting myself a gun to protect myself from the vigilante mall cops.

[Kingofalldems]

19. Why don't you meld all your numerous Zimmerman is innocent posts

into one thread. Then we can soak up all your wisdom.

[winter is coming]

31. Wait! I gotta find a Q-tip first. n/t

[Duer 157099]

23. Frankly I think that the gun kickback is what caused the damage to GZ

He's on his back on the ground, TM sitting on top of him, trying to hold GZ arms down, GZ manages to grab his pistol but must hold it close to his face since not much distance between them, and fires, it kicks back into his nose, slams his head back either onto the concrete or that metal utility box cover on the grass.

Thus, TM has no GZ DNA on this hands but yet GZ has injuries. He hurt himself but not intentionally.

[Blue_Roses]

34. that's possible

hadn't thought about that but makes sense. How much kickback would a gun like that do?

[geckosfeet]

39. Not that much. It's a reach to sway the uninformed.

[Democracyinkind]

28. Breaking: Picking a fight you can't win...

... automatically justifies you to kill your opponent.

Yeah, that sounds about right....

[adric mutelovic]

32. There is now a split in the anti-Zimmerman crowd

Between those who think Trayvon was too slim to take on the much heavier Zimmerman, and those (you included, I presume) who believe Zimmerman lost the fight.

The opinions on who was on top seems to have evolved.

[Democracyinkind]

40. Oh my. Because the Zimmyfreaks have been the epitome of consistency, right.

You're just too much. As if this point had any relevance at all...

[grok]

45. zimmerman did not even get a lick in

consequently he can be deemed a wuss.

Heck i was forced by my parents to take self defence classes(judo/karate) because they thought the exercise would strengthen my back(crooked and weak)

6 months later i was beaten up badly by somebody merely had street cred and experience. think i said something wrong to him and it was enough. I didn't throw the first punch.

Yes i was a wuss/nerd too.

On an afterthought, isn't it just quaint that those that want to lynch the man always un-include a minor critical fact. Like WHO friggin' struck FIRST?

how convenient...

[Kingofalldems]

48. The 'anti Zimmerman crowd' you say?

So you regard most DUers as some sort of 'crowd'. Not surprised.

[HangOnKids]

51. Do we have uni's?

What's next, the anti Arron Hernandez crowd?

[Kingofalldems]

55. He's got us pegged, dirty liberals that we are.

[geckosfeet]

37. Uh yeah. And the other guy was dead.

[justiceischeap]

43. What I want to know is, is Zimmerman ambidextrous

or does he cross-draw his weapon? It's been testified to by Offc. Smith that his weapon was on his right side. He's been writing at the defense table with his left hand. It has nothing really to do with the events of what happened but curious minds want to know.

[grok]

49. I think gz got lucky.

with somebody on top and pounding him.

Not sure i would have been able to.

maybe trayvon thought since gz was such an easy mark he could just keep on pounding his face and didn't actually notice gz had a gun and try hard to stop his hand movement.

I don't think trayvon actually knew gz had a gun until it was against his chest.

too late.

[justiceischeap]

68. I think GZ got lucky too

I think he didn't get as bad an ass kicking as he deserved for following a kid around in the dark with a loaded weapon with no safety on.

[DJ13]

46. Medical testimony is Z practiced MMA 3 days per week

Live now.

That tells me he was likely the aggressor at first.

[uppityperson]

53. Good, glad they finally got to that. It puts a different slant on who was doing "mma style moves"

[Marrah_G]

54. Just scary words

A papercut is a laceration, a bruise, no matter how small is a contusion.

The defense is working very hard to make minor cuts and scrapes into some big scary injuries.

[HappyMe]

60. Hey now.

They had to use Bactine and 2 (count 'em) 2 Smurf BandAids!

[Marrah_G]

63. I have to wonder what his MMA sparring partners are thinking right now

My son practiced Kempo and MMA for years.... if he had even grimaced after getting those little tiny scraped and bruises he would have been laughed out of the dojo.

[Kingofalldems]

57. And he recs his own thread.

Greatness.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

58. This current witness, who examined Zimmerman, doesn't seem to be making much out of the injuries.

Also noted Zimmerman's MMA training.

[adric mutelovic]

61. What's his name?

I will post a thread on this one too afterwards.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

64. Her name. It's a she.

You are actually following the entire trial, correct, and not just picking and choosing what you like the most, correct?

Her name is Lindzee Fulgate.

[trueblue2007]

62. no WEIRDER THAN MURDERING A 17 YEAR OLD KID IN COLD BLOOD

"the Zimmerman-hurt-himself theory endorsed by some on the internet, which is weird, to say the least. "


I THINK Zimmerman is a cold blooded monster -- he hurt himself so he wouldn't be called a "Murderer"

[Junkdrawer]

72. I've always wondered how you can convict Zimmerman w/o examining the corruption of the Sanford PD...

Thick as thieves.

[FiveGoodMen]

73. He looked just fine in the leaked police station video.