Has Glenn Greenwald become the Conscience of our Nation? Jeremy Scahill of The Nation thinks so!

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

Last edited Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:19 AM - Edit history (1)

http://www.thenation.com/authors/jeremy-scahill

Points out how consistant he has been no matter which party is in power.

I think it is hard to argue that, and it is what I expect from a real reporter, not all this cheerleading and kissing up to power, it makes me sick.

Isn't it weird how folks who break actual stories that impact all our lives get so viciously attacked?

Actually, it isn't weird at all, it is what is to be expected when you speak truth to power, otherwise they would all be patting you on the back.

And THAT should be your most important "tell", when power attacks a journalist, that journalist is telling an important story that TPTB do not want you to know about.

And it has been that way throughout history.

Want to learn more?

Check out this video posted by our indefatigable, and cherished DUer Catherina
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023124231


Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of the news that Tyranny is coming!

[dkf]

1. Knr

[HooptieWagon]

2. Somebody has to.

When govt (both parties) carry water for the corporations, and M$M carries water for the govt, then somebody with a microphone and/or printing press needs to stand up for us.

[nashville_brook]

147. +1

[Enthusiast]

164. PLUS A BRAZILLION! nt

[Thinkingabout]

3. Snowden is not even close to a Paul Revere, Snowden is a scumbag, thief and now charged with

espionage. He willing left this country and he should stay gone, don't come back, we don't need you or your type. Take your "cause" and keep on running. Tyranny is only in the eyes of those paranoid or afraid tyranny will not happen so they go about their daily lives in turmoil and hoping for the smallest problem to prove them right. This nation was strong before Edward Snowden was even a twinkle in his daddy's eye and we will be great when he is gone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. USA, USA, USA !!!!

Apple pie and ice cream, and we are exceptional, and stuff.

Yup...

Predictable.

[Thinkingabout]

13. Love it or leave it,looks like Snowden made the best choice for the USA. You can't dine with

buzzards and soar with eagles at the same time, I will fly with eagles.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

16. or stay and be tortured, and caged for the rest of your life, or until you are executed.

For telling the American people that they are all being spied on.

Yeah, go ahead and fly with the Stasis and their ilk

[Thinkingabout]

25. If you think you are being tortured in the USA, then you need to spend some time in other

country where you do not have the comforts of the US.

[silvershadow]

30. I don't have a dog in this thread, but I will jump out and say that sounds like the kind of false

argument I have been getting from my bagger friends.

[Thinkingabout]

65. No one should have to continue ton live in the US if they feel they do not like what happens here,

this is a part of our freedoms. Part of my freedom is choosing not to be a bagger, hope this answers your question.

[silvershadow]

74. I didn't have a question. You are right about having the freedom, at least in theory, to leave. I

read your comment to mean something it apparently didn't. I have a particular friend who is a vile tea bagger, and I mean vile, hateful. He usually uses that argument that if I don't like it here, leave, adding all the stuff about how we have it good here compared to the rest of the world. We do, in many senses, for sure, or at least we used to. But the argument that we have it good here doesn't hold water compared to the ways in which we fail to live up to all our country is supposed to be. We become that which we loathe, or something like that (not sure the exact quote or who said it), and I fear that is the road we are headed down.

[Thinkingabout]

75. I have read some of these types of opinions on libertarian and rw sites, it is also posted

on this site but I can't say for sure if they are being posted by true democrats. It is cognitive dissonance, keep saying something long enough and some starts to believe it, I don't believe lots of what I hear.

[silvershadow]

85. This next period of time, I believe, will be the most trying in the history of our nation. Maybe I

am wrong, and I hope I am. In a country of, *by, and for the people I just don't see the need for secret courts and secret interpretations and secret opinions. Should we keep secret our activities in the war on terror? There probably is some real merit in that, provided it is to disrupt terrorists. But I just don't see the need to keep the public in the dark, being that we theoretically run the government. Gotta hit the sack, but that's where I am at. It will be interesting to see what we do about all of this. It most certainly won't go away, and I am not sure they can put the genie back in the bottle now.

[Thinkingabout]

87. Can you look at periods of history and overlook the trying periods? This sure is not the first, not

the last but understand sometimes to have the security handled by professionals is better than the guessing of what is bad and good right now is important for our nation. It would be like asking every citizen to be in our armed forces without proper training and equipment, we have a professional military, it is best left that way. Do you know every transaction which goes on in your community?
Technology is changing, getting better and our system of observation will continue to be better.

Let me ask this question, do you think it is possible for every conversation be listened to every day? Think about how many calls are placed every day. In the past how many "leaks" have you heard from those in the communications industry?

[JDPriestly]

82. Is having the a powerful clique within government grabbing all records

of your personal and business electronic communications "a part of your freedoms"?

Is part of your freedom not choosing to question authority when it takes your personal and business information without telling you?

That is about government surveillance of your private life that makes you free?

I associate government surveillance of the kind that Snowden has told us about to be oppression, to be authoritarian, to be the typical conduct of a repressive, dictatorial government.

I do not associate this kind of surveillance of my metadata and perhaps more with life in a free society.

As for keeping us safe, the cost of the program, the numbers of people employed and the danger of this kind of surveillance being conducted and what's more in secret, cannot be justified by preventing a few alleged terror attacks. This surveillance did not prevent the Boston bombing or the attack on Gabby Giffords or the shooting in Aurora. It did not save the lives of the children at Sandy Hook Elementary.

We could find less intrusive ways, ways that are more consistent with our Constitution and our traditional values, to prevent terrorism. For one thing, we could be more discerning with regard to who comes into the country in the first place.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

91. I didn't see you leaving when Bush signed the USA Enabling (I mean USA Patriot) Act that enabled

all this!

Did you like that law? How about Citizen's United? Bush v. Gore?

"No one should have to continue ton live in the US if they feel they do not like what happens here." All DUers should have left then when the SCOTUS appointed Bush our pResident?

Just trying to follow your logic, or lack there of.

[Thinkingabout]

100. I survived Bush as governor of Texas and president of the US. I knew he would be gone and

l would live through whatever came. I did not like the wiretapping without warrant and this was changed. Our Fourth Amendment requires a warrant and this is what I have to accept. We have to be more aware of our surroundings, we can not ignore the fact someone places a backpack near our area, it could be another Boston like attack. How would you propose to place security monitoring to assist protection? Technology is changing every day, communications continues to expand and new ways are always looked for to get past surveillance by terrorist. I know many are not interested in our protection but we are in a different world today than we were some years back. Travel is faster, communications are faster so with haste agencies like NSA and Homeland Security are trying to provide those protections.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

103. There is this funny thing called the Constitution. And with it, comes the 4th amendment

Maybe I have a post 1776 mindset and not a post 9/11 mindest, but I propose FOLLOWING that document.

And this sounds like Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity in 2003 that said they would gladly give up freedoms "temporarily" in order to get the terrorists.

" I know many are not interested in our protection but we are in a different world today than we were some years back." Rather broad statement. Let's just through out all amendments and the US Constitution.

"I did not like the wiretapping without warrant and this was changed." Since when? Edward Snowden whistleblew that they still do this. . . and the FISA court issues warrants in secret.

I'm sorry, I cannot go on. If this is what you believe, Free Republic is that way ------------------->

"we can not ignore the fact someone places a backpack near our area, it could be another Boston like attack." Quick, ban backpacks.

I will ask again. . .did you leave the country when the USA Enabling (I mean the USA PATRIOT) Act was signed that enabled the things Edward Snowden whistleblew? You are telling people who disagree with a governmental policy "America, love it or leave it." We listen to that from Republicans and conservatives. . .if you feel that, again. . .Free Republic is that way ------------>

[Thinkingabout]

115. Has the Fourth Amendment changes since 9/11, no. The amendement does not change because

You may not agree with the limits now. You got it all wrong, I am not the one complaining about the surveillance, I don't care if all of my conversations are recorded. The collecting of phone call records are in accordance with the Fourth Amendment so I would not have a Constitutional leg on which to stand. In todays world if you choose to ignore when someone walks by and drops a backpack and not report this to those which can provide professional attention then you are being silly. BTW, wher do you come up with the thought of banning back packs, just open your eyes and be aware of your surroundings, you sound like you don't want gubermint into your life then step up to the plate yourself, provide the surveillance for yourself.

If the first time you heard of the collecting phone call records was when Snowden had diarrhea of the mouth then you have not been paying much attention, it has been known for some years. Now he has entered the world of espionage and he is unable to return to the USA. Did you think after the Patriot act was passed the collection of phone calls was going away? The Patriot Act gave oversight and procedures to follow, brought the warrant procedure in as provided by the Fourth Amendment.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

120. If I have nothing to hide, I have nothing to fear. How Free Republic style that argument is

Can I buy you some teabags?

[nashville_brook]

148. for reals!

[questionseverything]

128. blanket warrants are still unconstitutional

it just has not been challenged because the govt claims "state secrets"

[99Forever]

110. Ahhh... I see...

So your 'love it or leave it" authoritarian horseshit only allies to other people, not you.

Got it, hypocrite.

Proceed.

[Thinkingabout]

116. go ahead troll, misreading again

[Nanjing to Seoul]

119. Not misreading. Look at Post #13. . .your first line and your first few words.

Love it or Leave it and Edward Snowden left.

The rest of your missives are just saving face attempts to back pedal on your jingoistic, authoritarian nonsense.

Again, Free Republic is that way ---------------------------->. Your Love it or Leave it attitude and your "times have changes and the 4th amendment needs changing" attitudes will find more allies there than here.

[marions ghost]

132. good advice

[Thinkingabout]

169. This is what is contained in the post,

Love it or leave it,looks like Snowden made the best choice for the USA. You can't dine with
buzzards and soar with eagles at the same time, I will fly with eagles.



Perhaps you misunderstood what I said, you interpretation is not correct. Your jingoistic has failed you.

[aikoaiko]

143. Jury Results

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

At Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:36 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

go ahead troll, misreading again
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3127008

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Call outs are expressly forbidden by the TOS.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Jun 29, 2013, 01:43 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I'm leaving it because I love it when two established trolls go at each other. Two go in, only one comes out.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No call outs. Or at least do it with more skill. Let the jury or MIRT deal with it.

Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[sabrina 1]

111. True, those who hate our Constitution and refuse to abide by it, are free to leave anytime. People

like Greenwald who has consistently defended it starting with Bush and his merry band of Constitution haters, has put himself on the line to defend it.

We claim to be a democracy. Anyone who makes excuses to 'cut corners' on that democracy, please do leave. Those who refuse to do so really don't need 'domestic enemies' here. But if they do choose to stay then they better get used to the growing awareness of the threat from within to the US Constitution, the ONLY thing our leaders and miitary are required to defend.

[nashville_brook]

150. [phone]

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

32. Not me, the whistle blowers... but we are both being spied on by our gov. and PAYING for it!

BTW: I have lived abroad, traveled widely, and served in our military, so I do know that many other countries have it even better than what we do here.

We are an empire in decline, with most of us suffering under the tyranny of our plutocrats... though we used to be better, sure.

I want to stay, and struggle to change it!

But what about you, i suppose you are too comfortable to do much except act all superior on your keyboard, eh?

[Thinkingabout]

67. Sounds like you would be happier somewhere else.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

68. SOunds like you don't have a clue.

[Thinkingabout]

70. I did not realize you are being held against your will in the USA, if you are being held

against your will, are you incarcerated?

[Nanjing to Seoul]

122. There's that America, love it or leave it crap again. Free Republic is just a click away.

You can say that everyday there and have alot of allies.

[nashville_brook]

144. amazing how quickly apologist DUers resort to Jingoism

[Nanjing to Seoul]

163. Phil Ochs - Love me, love me, love me, I'm a liberal

When it comes to things like domestic spying, there's no one more red, white and blue.

[frylock]

83. sounds like you'd be more comfortable in a place like north korea..

someplace that dear leader would keep you safe and sound.

[Thinkingabout]

101. Did you hear me complaining?

[frylock]

125. yes, you're complaining that people don't like the surveillance state..

you seem to like it, so why not move someplace that already has it set up for you? then no more having to worry about a terrorist flying a plane into you or whatever it is that scares you.

[Thinkingabout]

134. You read with severe tunnel vision, i am not complainingabout living in the USA, a few others are,

I can live with the surveillance, I don't care what conversation is heard on my phone, I don't care if cameras are rolling, I am not doing anything where I would be concerned about espionage or sabotage. I live in a country where there are elections and elections has consequences. If you don't like those who can get along and live along with others then find your utopia it may now t be the USA.

[frylock]

160. and that's what i'm saying. go live with the surveillance somewhere else..

we don't want it. it's unfortunate that upholding the 4th amendment is now looked upon as living in a utopia.

[Thinkingabout]

166. The ones whining about surveillance and does not like the way the Constitution is written needs

to have it their way where ever they can find to get that to happen. I don't care if they collect phone call data or not, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. You seem to have the problem and you will seek to solve your problem, why does your problems become a problem for me to solve.

[frylock]

167. i really don't know ummmm..... hunh?!

[nashville_brook]

149. such a pathetic remark...and dishonest on its face

clearly the folks you smear with this vintage RW trope are far more patriotic in their will to defend the constitution, than any loyalist who would so cheaply sell us out for the praise of their clique.

[Thinkingabout]

153. If you had an inch of a clue of who a rw would be and think you would know I am not a rw so

try a new game, the one you are playing is all wrong.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

123. I live overseas now and have since 2007. My name on DU is because of that fact

We are now what Rome became. Prepare for the fall. It will be so slow that when it does happen, it will completely shock everyone.

South Koreans live longer, have less obesity, higher educational outputs, free health care and one of the highest standards of living in the Asian world. I'd say they have it better than us (oh, and gun control). And they are still a democracy.

I lived there. I know this.

Hell, I am in China now. Food is cheap and plentiful, clinics for health care are everywhere and relatively inexpensive. Public transportation is readily available and efficient. No one has shot up a school or movie theater. In some ways, even the Chinese have it better. Get a VPN and all websites that the CCP block become active.

[marions ghost]

133. Thank you

yes, some people need to travel to a few other countries.

[Dragonfli]

35. This ones for you patriot!!

You guys like this stuff right?
John was a REAL American.

[MNBrewer]

79. Wow, that should be on a motivational poster and sold through the DU Patriot Megastore

[Nanjing to Seoul]

90. Jingoistic teabagger, is that you? Don't tread on me!

[Thinkingabout]

102. Don't tread on me works two ways

[Nanjing to Seoul]

104. Jingoistic teabagger, is that you? America: Love it or Leave it!

[ljm2002]

99. "Love it or leave it"

Really? That's what your response is?

Hmmm. Where have I heard that before?

Oh, yeah. Right. It's been the rallying cry of reactionary rah-rah "patriots" since back in the 60s.

Good going.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

105. I alerted this clown. Apparently, spouting Republican mantra like Love it or Leave is now

acceptable to DU Juries.

Another reason the DU Jury system is broken. I called him a Jingoistic teabagger that should be more comfortable at Free Republic. Let's see if I get my posts blocked.

More than likely I will. America: Love it or leave it is okay. Calling someone on that bullshit will probably be wrong.

[L0oniX]

155. My country right or wrong” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying...

...except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother drunk or sober.” – G. K. Chesterton

[nadinbrzezinski]

106. My...that's the best you can do?

There are many problems in the US. I'd prefer to fix them.

Among them yes, torture (recognized by the UN Rapporteour on torture regarding Bradley Manning)

Among them yes...torture in us prisons such as indiscriminate use of solitary confinement.

Among them yes torture, such as force feeding of prisoners in Guantanamo.

Among them mass social inequality and lack of opportunities. Social mobility is the lowest of the OECD economies.

Such as a lousy educational system. It's not the teachers, this is policy at the highest levels.

Such as a lousy medical system, that is expensive too boot, unless you can pay for it. ACA is a baby step, we need single payor.

But in order to fix any of this...first step get off the USA, USA, we are number one (in obesity rates) droning.

[railsback]

15. Stale air and visqueen is no way to live your life.

Why be mad at those who choose not to?

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. The irony of your post...

Drips.

[railsback]

117. You apparently choose your own ironies, too.

Enjoy it while you can, before its forcibly ripped from your being.

[nadinbrzezinski]

118. Are you making a threat?

It sure sounds like one.

[railsback]

138. MY GAWD!

Do you NOT even understand your own Armageddon diatribe?

I merely mock it - which apparently is a 'threat'

[nadinbrzezinski]

139. You might mock whatever you want to

your post did indeed sound like a threat, and was timestamped and saved.

[railsback]

140. Well, I guess if you can interpret that as a 'threat'

You can interpret the world however you see fit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. Whatever dude

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

9. Courage is Contagious

He will not be the only one, BET.

[Apophis]

23. This post sounds like something a Republican would've said six years ago.

[Democracyinkind]

84. +1

Doesn't "sound like", it simply is.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

89. Bush NSA policy= bad. Obama NSA policy (which is Bush's policy) = good! Who needs a 4th

amendment anyway?

And if you don't like Obama's policy of spying on Americans, you're a bigot and a racist.

[BlueCaliDem]

108. Snowden is also a Libertarian of the GiGi ilk and he shouldn't be praised on DU

by ANY DUer. I still don't get it why there are so many pro-Snowden/anti-Obama DUers posting on this site, all against DU's Terms of Service, too.

DU ToS:

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe)

Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

Why don't they open a Libertarian Underground site for their blind worship of this sell-out and his meister GiGi, and their hatred of Obama and this country? Maybe it's because they'd only have a membership of a few hundred lke-minded people and they can't get the reactions from Democrats they're after who actually support Democratic Party policies?

[questionseverything]

126. i do not hate obama

the activities being discussed were already in place when he came to office....did you ever consider that the presidents hands are tied by the MIC and he wants to stop the illegal activity but he NEEDS US to throw a fit so he has cover to restore at least part of the protections the Constitution grants?

[reusrename]

136. What do you base this on?

I understand this is what folks are now saying about Snowden, but do you have any quotes or anything to show it might actually be true? Are these accusations just made up? I don't see him advocating any political view close to what you're saying.

[nashville_brook]

145. anyone who uses the word 'ilk' goes down a notch in my book

[BlueCaliDem]

171. I'll do you one better. IGNORE. eom

[L0oniX]

157. ...and besides all that ...he's a bunny stomper!

[noamnety]

170. Can you explain why you repeatedly refer to Greenwald as Gigi?

It seems to be a consistent thing with you, and on the surface it comes across as homophobic to make a point over and over again of using a feminine name to refer to a gay man.

[BlueCaliDem]

172. His initials. I didn't think I had to explain this to you or the other GEEGEE fans

but I guess I do since you've all geared up to smear me by calling me a homophobe.

You've earned your IGNORE.

[noamnety]

173. His initials are GG, not GiGi.

But you know that, you've already been informed that this is being read as homophobic. You've chosen to continue to act that way.

[L0oniX]

152. Gee Wally ...Isn't the NSA the "eyes of those paranoid"?

[Galraedia]

154. +1 That's speaking too kindly.

His fanbase includes the most annoying fucks on the planet.

[cantbeserious]

162. When People Fear The Government, Tyranny Prevails - When Government Fears The People, Liberty Prevails

eom

[Enthusiast]

165. It ain't just the NSA revelations!

It's this http://www.nationofchange.org/believe-it-or-not-13-mind-blowing-facts-about-america-s-tax-dodging-corporations-1372514605

And this. How can you possibly argue for the status quo?

[sabrina 1]

168. Paul Revere was a traitor, He would have been hanged if he had caught. So what is your

point?

All of the FFs were traitors, they broke so many laws, stole the King's property, if they could have been hung multiple times, they would have been. Fortunately they won and changed all those laws. Now we have people trying to change them again.

Thank the gods for Whistle Blowers.

[Robb]

4. Um. Iraq War.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

11. Um. What does that mean?

[GeorgeGist]

94. Greenwald was a cheerleader.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. That is an interesting perspective indeed

And one that history will decide (depending who wins this fight)

[kas125]

39. Wow, remember when Jeremy Scahill's opinion was respected around here?

HE hasn't changed...

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. I respect him too

But the letter behind a name changed. I fear people are this fickle

[bravenak]

7. Conscience.

That's the only way the title makes sense to me.
Then again maybe it does make sense that way.

[Blecht]

21. I thought he meant couscous

He's delicious!

[bravenak]

93. In that case.

I want cheese on mine. And salsa. Yummy!

[ProSense]

8. Wait

"Has Glenn Greenwald become the conscious of our nation? Jeremy Scahill of The Nation thinks so"

..." the conscious of our nation" supports Citizen United?

Glenn Greenwald: What the Supreme Court got right (Flashback)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100293141

[Whisp]

12. " the conscious of our nation" supports Citizen United

x 1000 or so.

I would put that in the 'unconscious' category.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

14. What

"I believe that corporate influence over our political process is easily one of the top sicknesses afflicting our political culture. But there are also very real First Amendment interests implicated by laws which bar entities from spending money to express political viewpoints. "

This article does not represent what I think, you think, it does...
http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/citizens_united/

I encourage the curious to actually read the whole piece and come to their own conclusions.

[railsback]

19. Right.

He says he doesn't know how things could get much worse than they already were.



Now THAT is some daft ass thinking.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

22. Exactly

And now we find out they are charging us to spy on EVERYONE!

Now THAT is some daft ass thinking, eh?

But leave it up to our leaders to continue to out do their outrageousness.

[railsback]

36. Yes, 'all of a sudden' discovered this horror..

[Luminous Animal]

29. Do you realize that cutting off speech for Corps means cutting off the ACLU, unions,

Planned Parenthood, etc. They are all incorporated. Greenwald supports 100% public funding of campaigns.

Are you for limiting the politcal speech of Planned Parenthood.

[railsback]

34. LoL!

That is by far the MOST perplexing explanation I've ever heard.

I'm.. speechless..

[Luminous Animal]

37. Most advocay groups and unions are incorporated. You cut of GE, you cut off Planned Parenthood.

[railsback]

41. Most advocacy groups never had to deal with fighting unlimited dark money

coming in at untold sums from unknown sources, hidden in tax free 501c4s. Good Gawd.

[Luminous Animal]

45. That is true. But it does not negate the fact that if you cut off GE, you cut off Planned Parenthood

Both are incorporated and thus corporations.

[railsback]

53. That's totally irrelevant

You now force Planned Parenthood to raise 4 or 5 times more money than they had to before to fight off billionaires like the Kochs, who have unlimited funds just lying around, and now can anonymously fund whatever they want with however much they want.

[Luminous Animal]

71. No it isn't irrelevant. You outlaw speech of GE, you outlaw speech of Planned Parenthood.

The argument in front of SCOTUS wasn't about how much money could be spent, the argument was about limiting political speech.

[railsback]

77. Speech IS money, to which Planned Parenthood is now at a severe disadvantage.

[Luminous Animal]

86. Banning speech of those who have the most money also bans speech for those who have less.

Both the ACLU and Greenwald advocate for solutions that would level the playing field.

[Whisp]

42. you sippin the crazy juice, huh?

[Luminous Animal]

48. Planned Parenthood is incorporated. A crazy fact. NOW is incorporated. Another crazy fact.

Any initiative that limits political advocacy of GE, Monsanto, or Walmart; also will curtail political speech of the Sierra Club, the ACLU, the AFL-CIO, etc., etc.

[baldguy]

97. You've got it bassackwards.

Planned Parenthood, NOW, the Sierra Club, the ACLU, the AFL-CIO, etc., etc. incorporate to gain the benefits of being a corporation. For these organizations, being a corporation is merely a legal construct. Their fiduciary structure can be set up in any of a number of ways; in our present tax system the corporation has the most incentives. If the law changes, they can change as well.

OTOH, Citizens United was intended to allow massive amounts of cash to be injected into the political process, from legal entities that just happen to be huge, multinational corporations. GE, Monsanto, Walmart, et al really can't change the way they're structured. In order to do business they have to be incorporated.

[JDPriestly]

88. We could amend the Constitution to provide that corporations do not

have the rights of persons under the Constitution and then, in order to preserve the ability of organizations to participate in civic discourse, pass a law that prohibits corporations from donating money to specific candidates but allowing them the right to free speech on issues.

This would be similar to the prohibition on churches with church tax exemptions from supporting candidates but allowing them to speak out on social issues.

I think that would work well. We can't completely prohibit corporations from promoting their views on specific issues without shortchanging our national conversation, but we should not allow them to fund the campaigns of specific candidates. I would like to see all candidates able to get a certain number of signatures on a petition to run for office receive a specific sum of government money and fund election campaigns of candidates only through that government money. Any other financial contributions from any corporations should be, in the beginning reported to the election commission and after a few years, prohibited.

[ucrdem]

72. ProSense: "the conscious of our nation" supports Citizen United?

p.s.

[woo me with science]

73. ProSense: "Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal."

Speaking of conscience and consistency....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2461323

ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM
Original message
Edited on Wed Feb-15-06 08:53 AM by ProSense

Bush is spying on Americans: opponents and activist groups. The law can't
be changed to make that legal. The Republicans are trying to pull a fast one with this "law change" tactic by framing the illegal spying as warrantless spying on terrorists; therefore, the law is being changed to give Bush the authority to spy on terrorist. Spying on Americans was, is and will still be illegal. Bush committed crimeS by illegal spying on Americans and breaking existing FISA laws.

I'm sure all criminals would love to have a law passed that retroactively absolves them of their crimes.

One of the hallmarks of propaganda is that it shifts with the wind as needed.

We have always been at war with Eastasia.
We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Greenwald is right. Snowden is considered a great threat, and that is why he must be smeared and destroyed.

[ucrdem]

76. LOL, you've been watching too much CNN.

Not healthy. What you missed is that A) metadata collection isn't spying and b) it's legal. Here, watch this presser from three weeks ago and start catching up:

Bush-Cheney acted recklessly and lawlessly and also managed to set up an entirely new security infrastructure that hadn't existed under Clinton. All Congressionally sanctioned and all in place when BO took office. Obama a) hasn't acted recklessly and lawlessly and b) hasn't expanded the security establishment. And he's instituted oversight and legality where it was lacking. Listen to what he had to say about electronic surveillance on Friday, June 7, starting at the reporter's question at 11:45, and you'll see what I'm talking about:

Even if you disagree with the policy there's no way Obama's handling of it aligns with Bush's. And executing US policy is his constitutional responsibility.

[ProSense]

98. Hey

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3124023

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3124055

[JI7]

10. .

[Tx4obama]

17. All I have to say is ...

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

18. is sharing your cartoon world view?

[MNBrewer]

80. Seems to be

[Apophis]

20. Conscience*

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

24. Thank you Apophis

[Catherina]

26. Thanks usGovOwesUs3Trillion!

Thanks for linking to my thread It's my humble, happy duty to do everything I can to support Edward Snowden. People of such courage are rare on this earth and it's the very least I can do. I'm happy to know how many millions around the world, and in our country, and on DU, stand by him and won't let his sacrifice slip quietly in the night and go to waste. Or be distorted and minimized by the "dingbat factory" as Jeremy Scahill called it.

Edit. Yes, Glenn Greenwald is one of the most courageous voices of our nation right now. I stand by him proudly as many of us here do.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

40. the "dingbat factory" - lol

And yes, isn't the www wonderful, it used to be that I would often feel alone in my thoughts of what was going on politically, but the internet has changed all that, and has shown that WE are the majority, and we are no longer going to be silent, the evidence is WORLD-WIDE, and it has TPTB shitting their collective pants, and is why they desperately need this massive spying machine, but it will all be for naught, as they will not be able to deal with all the alarms going off... it will be like trying to drain the ocean with a pail.

Actually, the internet reminds me of one of my favorite quotes about reading, which i shared with all my children to encourage them to read...

"why do we read... to know we are not alone" I forget now who said that, but it is so true.

and it is also true what GG said... "Courage is Contagious"

It is my pleasure to link to your important posts, and thank you so much for your kind words, and especially for all your sharing here, it is greatly appreciated :love:

[Catherina]

47. Imagine how differently Occupy would have gone with their hoovering

If there's a next one, which I'm sure there will be, everyone's cell phones are going to be in the fridge lol. See how far their fancy toys get them then.

"Courage is Contagious". Indeed. They have no idea.

[DonCoquixote]

27. conscience?

Look, GG may be right ON THIS ISSUE.

But no one that defends Citizens United gets to be called a "conscience".

http://www.alternet.org/story/145610/dennis_kucinich_vs._glenn_greenwald%3A_is_citizens_united_a_deathblow_for_democracy_or_a_1st_amendment_victory

Heck, I would sooner take DK over GG.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

44. See post #14 (LINK)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023124922#post14

I think you may be reading him wrong on that, even in that article he points out how money has corrupted our politics, perhaps even beyond hope. It's hard to disagree with him on that.

But it is ludicrous to try and paint him as someone who is in favor of maintaing the status-quo, or who supports the nefarious powers to be, as he is ALWAYS condemning them, and continues to do so to this very day, why do you think they are all pissed at him right now?

[msanthrope]

28. I thought this wasn't about Greenwald or Snowden. nt

[railsback]

38. You have to learn how to cherry pick

And cherry season is in full bloom.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

50. Exactly.

The story isn't about them, of course, but obviously they played a role in getting the story out there and they certainly deserve recognition and credit for doing so.

what people are saying is, don't ignore their message, by trying to make them the main focus.

easy peasy, right?

[railsback]

31. "..weird how folks who break actual stories that impact all our lives get so viciously attacked"

Um…

Well, for starters, self glorification doesn't make the story relevant, especially when its been a topic for years now.

Getting your initial story wrong, and then flaming on everyone who points it out doesn't exactly earn you any honesty medals, either.

All those 'bombshells' never materialized. Even those ones released the past 24 hours just undercuts his hair on fire mentality.

Snowden has made some major mistakes, but hooking up with Greenwald was the worst of all. Maybe he knew Greenwald
wouldn't scrutinize anything. Dunno. But undoubtably if Snowden went with a reputable reporter who crossed his t's and dotted
his i's, we'd all probably be having completely different conversations right now.

[zeemike]

52. No we would not.

It would be just the same....the authoritarians would savage the messenger no matter who it was.
And would make the same arguments over and over just as is being done here....nothing new here....hair on fire...pearl clutching....bla bla bla...disassemble and marginalize.

[railsback]

55. Well, that's just assuming

like so many assumed Snowden was a hero.

[zeemike]

63. It was not about him but us.

And how some attack the messenger and ignore the message and force the rest of us to defend the messenger to preserve the message.
And about how some people think that all they have to do is repeat the same thing over and over and it will negate it all...well that does not work on everyone.

[railsback]

69. Well, if you feel like you have to defend the messenger

maybe something is seriously wrong with the message…AND messenger. All I can say is that is one big mistake to involve a self proclaimed activist and part time journalist, who basically couldn't help himself, shining the spotlight on himself.

[zeemike]

96. What kind of logic is that?

If someone attacks someone it means there is something seriously wrong with them.
So then if Obama is attacked by Glen Beck it means something is wrong with Obama?

[JI7]

33. Greenwald is our Edward R Murrow and WAlter Cronkite, and Snowden is the Chinese guy who stood up

to the tank and our Mandela.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

43. “News is what somebody somewhere wants to suppress; all the rest is advertising.” Lord Northcliffe

Our freedom fighting army is now trying to suppress Greenwald in The Guardian UK by banning it to the troops.

[Catherina]

49. Only ensuring that the troops will rush to the nearest library or internet cafe

to read it.

How's that for freedom?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

56. Putting something "off limits" for the troops is like an invitation to find it.

[ucrdem]

46. Scahill puffing Greenwald is like Tokyo Rose endorsing Aldrich Ames.

People have strange heroes around here.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

54. Ah, so now two of our most intrepid investigative reporters are compared to infamous spys

who worked in secret, against the American people's interests, by the spy masters themselves.

now isn't that rich!

Fortunately, only a tiny minority here think so TWISTEDLY.

[Dragonfli]

61. Don't mind uc, he has hated Scahill since he tore up Blackwater

I think he gets like merc monthly or something and feels Erik Prince was slandered.

[ucrdem]

62. When did GG become a reporter?

He's a legal columnist who writes opinion pieces based on stories he reads in the press, the same stories posted here in LBN. Every now and then handlers give him a little assignment. That's exactly how he described his Snowden caper.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

64. Are you out of your mind?

please, give it a rest... this isn't fucking FR, or the M$M.

[ucrdem]

66. Have you been following this story at all?

You don't seem very familiar with the details, or with Greenwald's writing. Basically he's a blogger.

[Luminous Animal]

78. A blogger? Hurrumph.

[kitt6]

51. Someone needs to put up

or shut up. Reveal the documents you have! And quit beating around the Bush.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

57. Now that has to be the LAMEST excuse out of the bunch

what are you in the military, and are blocked access to the Guardian website or something

[flamingdem]

59. seriously. where are the "bombshells" Greenwald and Snowden promised?

we are waiting... meanwhile Greenwald is running around spouting aphorisms like Werner Erhard of EST

[patrice]

58. No thank you. I have a conscience of my own. nt

[kitt6]

60. I believe when I see;

not see when I believe. If you have something. Lay it out. Reminds me of Issa.

[madrchsod]

81. help!!!!

i can`t stop laughing!!!

greenwald is our conscience and snowjob is our paul revere

[DeSwiss]

92. No he is not the ''Conscience of our Nation....''

...but he is the ''Voice of our Conscience.''

Which is why so many scream for him to be silenced, because if we could deal with the TRUTHFUL WORDS he is speaking to us, we would have already done so and we wouldn't be in this mess.

- Glenn's voice is a constant reminder of the terrible things we already know. Things that only we, together, can fix. And that we're damned if we don't......

“Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.

How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. ” ~ Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

[GeorgeGist]

95. I hope not.

[99Forever]

107. Huge K&R

[sabrina 1]

109. Yes, Greenwald IS one of those few who are the conscience of this country. That is why those with no

conscience, the top 1% who could care less about this country, hate him and are paying for smear campaigns against him. When you have no conscience the one who refuses to stop reminding of how unethical you are is your worst enemy.

[SidDithers]

113. ROFL...

Snowden is just like Paul Revere!!!

Sid

[Chan790]

121. Gosh, I hope not...

because if Glenn Greenwald is the conscience of the nation, we're an unbearably-amoral recklessly-sociopathic dullard.

[boilerbabe]

124. he points out what people dont want to hear plus ASSHOLES hate him.

he is one of my top favorites.

[nashville_brook]

146. it's amazing how much the assholes love to kick these threads too

it's not like they're changing anyone's opinion with arguments like, 'love it or leave it.'

[brooklynite]

127. I thought reporters were supposed to report the news

When did they become our conscience?

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

131. Especially news that is fundamental to our democracy, and rights. not gossip, or press releases from

people in power.

So, they became our conscience when most of the media became corporate/government whores.

[Douglas Carpenter]

129. knr - and like with Paul Revere - the fate of a nation rides with him tonight

[limpyhobbler]

130. k&r but Jeremy has a little conscience of the nation in him too. nt

[marions ghost]

135. Bart Gellman of WAPO also validated Snowden

I suppose that no one should be surprised that Edward Jay Epstein, one of the original JFK conspiracy theorists (I was a big fan in the 1960s, for a few weeks, when I was a kid), is back with an op ed at the right-wing Wall Street Journal editorial page insinuating that Glenn Greenwald might be behind Edward Snowden’s career move to Booz, Allen, for the purpose of getting those NSA docs and his big scoop.

In other words: the guy should be arrested and locked up. That is, Greenwald, as well as Snowden.

As usual, Greenwald critics of this bent totally ignore the fact that Bart Gellman of the more establishment Washington Post was also involved with Snowden early. That muddies the narrative, of course, not to mention ruffling other feathers.

-------------
http://www.thenation.com/blog/175038/wall-street-journal-hit-glenn-greenwald-provokes-angry-response#axzz2XdJmjuWu

[Douglas Carpenter]

137. in answer to your question... yes

[nashville_brook]

142. k and r

[orpupilofnature57]

151. The journalist Jefferson told us,, the informed public about .

[Waiting For Everyman]

156. Credit where credit is due.

Greenwald is doing a good thing for all of us by writing these stories -- he's benefiting those who slander him too, ungrateful as they are. They're not only ungrateful, they are self-serving lemmings.

[Progressive dog]

159. Sounds like a Palinism to me

"Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of the news that Tyranny is coming!"

I thought this wasn't about Snowden. I guess they've forgotten he fled to Hong Kong and Russia. Paul Revere was still in Ma. after the revolution. Paul warned his countrymen, Hong Kong Eddie warned the Russians and Chinese.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

161. Edward Snowden is a modern day Paul Revere with a thumb drive full of news that Tyranny is coming

Just like the revolutionary war wasn't about Paul Revere, he was a actor in it who received credit for his role, just like Snowden, but they should never distract from the main message.