Anybody read this on Michael Hastings? It's disturbing.

[Cleita]

Was Michael Hastings' Car Hacked?

<snip>Richard Clarke Says It's PossibleThe peculiar circumstances of journalist Michael Hastings' death in Los Angeles last week have unleashed a wave of conspiracy theories.

Now there's another theory to contribute to the paranoia: According to a prominent security analyst, technology exists that could've allowed someone to hack his car. Former U.S. National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism Richard Clarke told The Huffington Post that what is known about the single-vehicle crash is "consistent with a car cyber attack."

Clarke said, "There is reason to believe that intelligence agencies for major powers" -- including the United States -- know how to remotely seize control of a car.<snip>

<snip>In the days before his death, Hastings was reportedly working on a story about a lawsuit filed by Jill Kelley, who was involved in the scandal that brought down Gen. David Petraeus, according to the LA Times. KTLA reported that Hastings told colleagues at the news site BuzzFeed that he feared the FBI was investigating him. On June 20, the FBI denied that any investigation was under way.

"I believe the FBI when they say they weren't investigating him," said Clarke. "That was very unusual, and I'm sure they checked very carefully before they said that."

Clarke worked for the State Department under President Ronald Reagan and headed up counterterrorism efforts under Presidents George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and George W. Bush. He also served as a special adviser on cyberterrorism to the younger Bush and published a book on the topic, Cyber War, in 2010.

"I'm not a conspiracy guy. In fact, I've spent most of my life knocking down conspiracy theories," said Clarke, who ran afoul of the second Bush administration when he criticized the decision to invade Iraq after 9/11. "But my rule has always been you don't knock down a conspiracy theory until you can prove it [wrong]. And in the case of Michael Hastings, what evidence is available publicly is consistent with a car cyber attack. And the problem with that is you can't prove it.<snip>

more at link.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/michael-hastings-car-hacked_n_3492339.html

I know this article is a week old, but it's the first time I have read it as I don't usually read the Huff post unless I'm pointed to it. There are other disturbing things, an eye witness account that said they saw the car explode before it crashed and a friend of Michael's who said he drove like an old woman.

So if governments or private industries can hack into your car to do you harm, it makes me wish I never had gotten rid of my Ford Falcon that I drove for twenty years before trading it in. It was still in good running condition and there wasn't a single electronic or computer part in it. This whole brave new world of technology is getting scary because there seem to be no rules, safeguards or security to protect people from harm, especially those who would challenge and expose the system's abuses.

[HiPointDem]

1. k for exposure

[BehindTheCurtain76]

34. I believe it

Where are all the Snowden haters? Are they going to come out from under their rocks to disparage Michael Hastings and defend their precious NSA and military industrial complex?

[zappaman]

36. WTF?

What does Snowden have to do with Michael Hastings?

[Octafish]

59. What a surprise! Always there to add plausible deniability.

Which reminds me: Both Snowden and Hastings covered the national security state in their work.

[zappaman]

62. What a surprise! Always there to believe any conspiracy theory.

Especially a conspiracy theory with ZERO evidence to back it up.

[Octafish]

68. You mean, ''apart from Richard Clarke,'' who would know about such things, like 9-11.

That's why I so often disagree with what you post, zappaman. The facts don't match. In your case, usually they're missing entirely.

I wish I could recommend some reading for you, but I won't. Here's a video you can watch:

[zappaman]

69. Where in the video does it say there is evidence that Hasting's crash was not an accident?

Because that is what is being discussed.
I know it's hard for you to stay on topic, but try.

[Octafish]

78. It's a short video.

Matches. You know.

[BehindTheCurtain76]

96. Indeed

Ill bet Hastings 'new' article he was researching had to do with NSA since it involved Petreus getting outed...blackmail may be the oldest form of war but it still works well...both these men are patriots regardless of mainstream corporate media smears jobs. Snowden joined the military because he foolishly believed in the cause....when he learned the truth he gave it some time hoping Obama would fix things like we all expected and when he didn't correct Bush's crimes he went public : not for money, not because he's a double agent who fights for the Russians or Chinese...his life is ruined...over...regardless of where he hides and he knew this would happen...doing what's right engenders that often in our paradoxical world of universal deceit and corruption...he did it anyway and a certain group of very vocal haters comes out in force to try and convince every one else that he should be shut down...you have much more faith in the military industrial complex than I do and that is who is running things no matter what figureheads are elected.

[MADem]

104. Snowden broke his legs before he ever did a nanosecond on active duty--he never got past

"active duty for training." He was still in boot camp when he was hospitalized, and then he got discharged.

When he was working in Switzerland, he wanted leakers "shot in the balls."

What's changed lately with that guy?

He said he has acquired adult-onset epilepsy.

[BehindTheCurtain76]

148. wow

Who cares...he still signed up...and to me I don't care if someone serves or not but someone has to defend him from the online smear jobs. I'm sure you yourself have said a lot of stupid things...especially online so get off your high horse for God's sake. Let's leave the mudracking to FOX.

[laserhaas]

70. Calm down guy - I'm with you (because I've experienced Laser haters at DailyKos)

Take the high road - as you have in the past.

Hastings is adored and the premises of the Snowden debacle have no basis here.

[napoleon_in_rags]

2. There's got to be a hack you can have installed.

Just a kill switch, that cuts the engine no matter what, up on the dash would do just fine.

That and I think I'll be driving stick. Not much a computer controlled car can do, even with emergency brake down, when you can just rip it out of gear and throw it in neutral.

[Cleita]

4. This had to be a rental though, so I don't think you would have much choice

in putting in safeguards.

[Link Speed]

41. He was driving a lower-end Benz

I do not think those are rentals. A lease, maybe.

[Raine]

47. You can rent them, I rented a C250 MB for 4 days

over Christmas.

[nineteen50]

43. and lock the wheels and steering in security position while moving.

[virgogal]

77. Old lady here. What does that mean and how is it done?

[nineteen50]

90. On board computer system like on star and a locking

security system controlled by hand held key system.

[virgogal]

95. Thank you---I guess that's out for me with my little old Corolla.

[kentuck]

3. Interesting theory.

Conspiracy or not?

[Cleita]

5. What I thought was interesting was that Clarke, a Repug tool usually, said he

didn't discount conspiracy theories until he could debunk them.

[Auntie Bush]

27. I don't believe Clarke was a ReThug tool. I trust him explicitly.

Where did uou get that idea

[Cleita]

52. I dunno working for Reagan and the Bushes maybe.

To his credit he fought them on Iraq and lost.

[Schema Thing]

133. He's the farthest thing from a "tool" of any kind imaginable.

[BobbyBoring]

140. Clark is far from a rethug tool.

He's the exact opposite. Read Against All Enemies or some of his other books on the Bush administration. I suprised the guys still alive~

[Cleita]

143. I guess I should. I have a habit of not believing anyone who had anything to do with

those administrations as actually being good citizens.

[struggle4progress]

6. ... "I believe the FBI when they say they weren't investigating him," said Clarke ...

Whoa. Disturbing.

[Cleita]

7. Do you think he was saying that it's unlikely that they weren't investigating him

with that last sentence that they had to be careful before saying that? Is that's Clarke's coded words to insinuate they are lying? It's hard to figure out with a vague reference and wording like that.

[struggle4progress]

15. Or mebbe it's code for "Sasquatch had him whacked cuz he was havin an affair with Loch Ness Nellie"

Or mebbe some of us just spend too much time on the innertubes

[Cleita]

23. You haven't been paying a whole lot of attention have you while your

nation is being sold to the highest bidder. Yet you dismiss all evidence out there of it happening and trash those who are trying to call attention to it.

[struggle4progress]

35. Credibility is hard to win and easy to lose. It's possible to win some political fights

about corporate control or government spying, and possible IMO to win such fights using pure people-power -- but to do so, it's important to be very careful to get facts right and to steer clear of crazyland

[zeemike]

61. But you used crazyland to knock it down.

So crazyland has some value....it can be used to destroy credibility just as you did with the device of comparison...if you believe this then you believe that.

IMO that destroys your credibility.

[struggle4progress]

73. So it is your opinion whoever regards something as crazy is immediately discredited thereby?

If that is the case, I think I will not pay too much opinion to any political advice you offer, since there is no chance of winning a political fight when one is unwilling to remain within certain bounds

[zeemike]

79. That is not what I said.

I said that the use of false analogy destroys your credibility....this is not the same as Bigfoot...but you used the most over the top thing you could think of to ridicule it...dead give away.

[TheMadMonk]

129. So why do you work so hard to defend the credibility...

...of those who have repeatedly demonstrated that they have none?

People who have been caught in lie after lie, who believe they have every right to know the smallest detail of ordinary people's lives, whilst at the same time insisting that ordinary people have absolutely no right to know what is being do in their name and will use (have been demonstrated to use) every possible subterfuge to maintain that state of ignorance.

[DevonRex]

8. JFC it's been posted like 10 times now. Who HASN'T seen that BS by now? nt

[Cleita]

9. Maybe it hasn't been posted enough.

There are too many unanswered questions, and I for one will not shut up and become a good German just because you want me to.

[DevonRex]

12. Whatever. At least you admitted you're posting it after it's been done over and over again.

Whole goddamn GD has become conspiracy theory woo bullshit. And the best you've got is that it can't be disproved. Oh my, it must be true then!!!!!

[SidDithers]

17. "Good German" is the new talking point...

How original, eh?

Sid

[Cleita]

24. Actually, it's really an old talking point with me.

If you've seen what I post over the years, I've been breaking Godwin's law consistently on these boards ever since Chimpy became our king.

[Ilsa]

75. The ability to do it isn't BS.

New cars can parallel park themselves now. The steering, acceleration, and braking can be computer controlled.

Did someone do it, though? I guess that would only be if Hastings was really getting close to something BIG. So, I doubt it.

But it's an interesting speculation for future reference.

[jberryhill]

102. And how do you assure a kill?

It's usually a good idea, when you want to kill someone, to use a method which reliably renders the person dead.

[Ilsa]

109. Obviously, you can't assure one. nt

[SamReynolds]

134. After a certain speed,

Survival is nothing short of miraculous.

No standard seat belt can save you from a 75 mph trip into a concrete divider.

[jberryhill]

147. You miss the point

Okay, so the car is being remotely controlled, and somehow the controller knows it will not collide with something else first before it gets to a certain speed, and also has to make sure it hits something rigid. I guess they have a night vision camera in the car, and control of side street traffic.

When, instead, someone can be shot in the street in an act of "gang violence", or simply fall down the stairs.

[SamReynolds]

149. Not as difficult as you suggest.

How long does it actually take to take a late model Mercedes Benz from 40 to 100 mph?

Seconds. 100 meters of straight road is more than enough.

What objects are 'rigid' when struck at 100 mph?

All of them.

Anything that wouldn't stop the car also wouldn't do much to slow it down.

I don't know what actually happened. But what would make a guy who feared for his safety suddenly decide to commit suicide?

[ohheckyeah]

10. Has any information been released

about where he was and what he was doing out at 4:00 a.m.? I haven't seen it. As a matter fact, there has been little said on the "news" about his death.

[Cleita]

11. None that I can find. Maybe the investigation has a gag order issued, but it

strikes me peculiar that no one knows where he was or what he was doing in the hours leading up to his death. So much doesn't add up. It seems it will be a couple of weeks before the complete autopsy results are released.

[ohheckyeah]

13. One would think some enterprising

journalist would be all over this story. Maybe Hastings was the last of the enterprising journalists. I just find it odd that there has been no coverage about it.

[Cleita]

18. Maybe they are scared considering what happened.

I think Jeremy Scahill has said some on it, but without any real facts yet to go on, they have to be restrained right now.

[ohheckyeah]

39. Really can't much blame them for being scared, I guess.

Those questions just beg to be answered.

[Whisp]

14. Let's not assume, for those who are, that it is the government's nasty work here

or that Obama ordered this or anything as ridiculous.

Hastings was hated by many powerful on top - what he did to McCrystal, and we know those fuckers like him and Petraeus and now this Hoss Cartright, think they run the show.

[Cleita]

20. I'm not really blaming government. It could be private enterprises with the ability

to do this who could have done it. How about all our military contractors out there like Xe for instance? A hit could have been ordered to the private sector and the government's hands would technically be clean. If there is a rogue faction in the Pentagon, others may not be privvy to it. There is just a lot of unanswered questions.

[Whisp]

21. yeh, lots of questions, for sure.

as far as government goes and the massive shortcomings of some of those who run it - I trust them more than corporate limitless greed and the destructive power of bruised egos.

[LaydeeBug]

16. All I'm saying is that after I posted a Michael Savage quote on my FB acct, my mac crashed.

That has NEVER happened. before. Then it took me to a weird page and asked me which name I wanted to be to sign up and I unplugged it. Ten minutes later, I turned everything back on and all was well.

I have no idea what happened, if anything. But just to be safe...

[Cleita]

81. I think you were hacked by some crooks trying to steal your identity.

I've had some weird stuff like that happen to me, not necessarily a crash, but being directed to a page to sign up and give some information. I had the same reaction as you and did exactly what you did and they were gone.

[LaydeeBug]

83. Oh, good. Misery loves company. :) nt

[Art_from_Ark]

82. Something similar happened to me

except that I was trying to watch a YouTube video when I got that weird "What name do you want to sign up with" message.

[cali]

19. Why It's Unlikely Someone Killed Michael Hastings By Hacking His Car

http://jalopnik.com/why-its-unlikely-someone-killed-michael-hastings-by-ha-584806047

[Cleita]

22. And here is the truth from your article.

We simply don't know yet. And it's not fair to the memory of a man who dedicated his life to uncovering truth for us to blindly buy into the latest thing we're told to be afraid of.

Yes, we simply don't know yet and it's not fair to the memory of this man not to try to find out and understand why he died. This was not a normal accident on Melrose Avenue that witnesses all kinds of accidents all time in the course of a month. Nothing like this really happens on Los Angeles streets in chi chi neighborhoods like this. There are plenty of accidents and just going to work every day there almost insures you will get into an accident small or otherwise in the course of a year. The fiery accidents, however, occur on the freeway and in the hood not on the streets.

[aquart]

29. Yah. Wrong kind of accident

Not saying it's murder or conspiracy, but dismissing it as an accident when it's such an odd accident? Nuh uh.

[NutmegYankee]

25. Drive a stick shift.

Impossible to hack a purely mechanical system. Car starts accelerating on its own - just step on clutch.

[Cleita]

26. I drove a stick about half my driving life. I also had roll up windows and no air conditioning.

Worked for me. I think all people with targets on their back because of the nature of their jobs should go really low tech like this if it's possible to find any cars out that that aren't computerized.

[NutmegYankee]

28. Everything else can be electric, but you'll always have control over the engine with stick shift.

I never worry about a stuck throttle (it's electronic) as I can just step on clutch and it's over.

[HooptieWagon]

30. Even an automatic can be shifted to neutral.

And some tests done on a variety of cars, including a 400 hp Mustang, indicate that stomping hard on the brakes will stop the car...takes a little longer, but it will stop.

All the peep postulating conspiracy theories all ignore that "hacking" the car is easily defeated by the driver, and the hack is easily detected. Why would assassins chose a method with a low probability of success, and a high probability of detection? Simply doesn't pass the common sense test. Which presumably is why CTers ignore it... common sense doesn't fit their agenda.

[NutmegYankee]

40. I agree.

I've heard cases of people claiming they couldn't stop, but that was usually the result of operator error and panic.

[G_j]

31. "you don't knock down a conspiracy theory until you can prove it"

words for the wise..

[siligut]

32. Jill Kelley's lawsuit is about privacy law concerns and abuse from high level government officials

“But unfortunately, we did not receive the confidentiality and protection. Instead we received highly hurtful and damaging publicity from willful leaks from high level government officials that were false and defamatory. In addition, we also learned that our personal emails were wrongfully searched, and improperly disclosed.”

After the incident, Kelley became a staunch advocate for privacy rights, her efforts leading up to Monday’s lawsuit.

“Our government can and should do better than intrude on the privacy and dignity of citizens like my family and yours, and our public officials should treat our personal lives with the respect that our Constitution, laws like the Privacy Act, and standards of common decency require,” she added. “Until our privacy laws and practices truly give us both privacy and protection, I’ll continue to advocate for reform, so others don’t go through the challenges my friends and family endured.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/jill-kelley-lawsuit-dod-fbi-petraeus-92161.html#ixzz2XpwcLdKG

You have to consider who had the motives to want Hastings out of the picture and had the power to hack his car. Well, it would seem that Jill Kelley has a lawsuit against people who match this description.

[JDPriestly]

46. Question to which I have no answer.

Was Kelley a "victim" of the surveillance program that Snowden has revealed?

That's just conjecture and a question that will never be answered.

Or was she legitimately targeted as a suspicious person with questionable foreign connections and a line to highly placed military personnel?

Also conjecture. Also a question that will never be answered.

And those kinds of questions may have cost Hastings' life -- either from suicide an anxiety or from a third party.

Could it be simply that Hastings car malfunctioned?

Also a possible explanation. But we should find out the answer to that question because the car manufacturer may have a recall on his hands if the car malfunctioned.

[Cleita]

84. Strange how no officials are not clamoring for Mercedes to make a statement on

the safety of their cars or if there is a malfunction if there could be a recall.

*crickets*

[Historic NY]

33. His wife already debunked the story investigation BS...

Elise Jordan tweeted that she wanted to correct the record after seeing erroneous reports about the work of her husband.

"Since I've seen it erroneously reported a few times: (at)mmhastings was not working on a story about Jill Kelley," Jordan wrote. She declined a request for further comment.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/26/michael-hastings-jill-kelley-reporting_n_3502003.html

[Cleita]

51. So it doesn't mean he wasn't working on something else that could have

made a target out of him. Also, Michael could have just told her he wasn't working on it to protect her.

[Historic NY]

99. Really.......

you should google the video that exists....pre-accident & post accident.

[WillyT]

37. K & R !!!

[starroute]

38. People who knew him seem to believe he was murdered

I've been seeing things lately like a blog comment from someone who identifies themself as involved with FreeBarrettBrown.org and says of that organization, "We were also friends with Michael Hastings, and everyone who knows him doesn’t feel his death was an accident. ... It gets really dark when you see your friends taken down one by one by the military-intelligence-media complex. Barrett Brown is currently sitting in federal prison awaiting trial because of his work investigating surveillance contractors (though that’s not what THEY’RE saying, obviously). This is what happens when you get 'too close' I guess."

None of this is evidence that Hastings was murdered, of course -- but it does suggest that his death is having a chilling effect on investigative journalists who might otherwise be inclined to stick their noses into dark places.

[JI7]

45. what does his wife say ?

[octoberlib]

42. I met Michael Hastings at the DNC IN Charlotte

I was volunteering at the registration desk for The PPL( independent media center) and he was participating in a panel discussion on innovation in journalism with Dave Weigl of Slate and Josh Rogin. My interaction with him consisted of handing him a badge and telling him I loved the Runaway General but he was nice.

I wasn't a member of Democratic Underground yet but I remember they were also registered, so maybe Skinner was there too.

Hastings' friend, Staff Sgt Joseph Biggs ( who released the email) also lives in Charlotte. He said on a local show recently that he went to Hastings' funeral in Vermont last week where Hastings' wife, journalist Elise Jordan told him that Michael was working on a big story about the CIA. She told Biggs Michael wouldn't tell her any details for her own security. Biggs said he didn't know what Hastings was doing or where he was in his final hours. I believe he also said Hastings wife is having a memorial service in NYC next week.

[Octafish]

91. Thank you, octoberlib!

Very much appreciate the heads-up.

Many good reporters have met their death when going after the people who use CIA as a private army.

Co-incidence, we're told. Consistently told.

[JDPriestly]

44. He might have been mistaken about the FBI investigating him.

He might have become quite overwrought and paranoid (a psychological break if you will) and crashed his own car.

Or, it could have been some group, governmental or non-governmental that was investigating him and he thought they were the FBI.

Too few facts at this point. I'm surprised that Clarke said anything at all.

[Cleita]

49. I'm not. I'm thinking he knows a lot more than he has said and is putting out some crumbs

on the trail hoping someone, not with his affiliations, will follow the crumbs and expose what's going on.

[octoberlib]

60. Have you read the article in the NYT about Ernest Hemingway and the FBI?

Hemingway was depressed and kept complaining that his phone was being tapped and he was being followed everywhere he went. His wife and friends thought he was having a mental breakdown so his wife had him committed to a mental hospital, Hemingway complained that the phone in the hospital was also tapped. The psychiatrist told Hemingway's wife he was suffering from depression and paranoid delusions and gave Hemingway shock treatments. Years later when the FBI records were released under the FOIA turns out Hemingway's phones were being tapped and he was being followed during the period in question, including while he was in the hospital.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/opinion/02hotchner.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


Something to keep in mind. I'm interested in finding out the results of the investigation, that's for sure.

[H2O Man]

48. I respect Clarke.

I will say, however, that I am fairly sure that he is aware that it does not require any remote control of fancy technology to make a car explode while someone else is driving it -- no matter how safe a driver they may be.

Recommended.

[Taverner]

50. Why hack a car when you can plant a bomb?

If anything it was a bomb. Cars don't usually explode in crashes, that's mostly a Hollywood thing


As per conspiracy - he had a lot of enemies.

[Cleita]

54. Not saying it wasn't a bomb that went undetected, however, the possibility that

the car could also have been hacked makes the hairs on my skin stand up.

[Taverner]

64. It does, but then again fear is exactly what intelligence agencies, and the MIC want

Panic sells

One thing I learned after the whole "Loose Change" BS was that a lot of the data came from NSA, CIA sources. Thing is, this all came out AFTER 9/11. The NSA wants us to fear them. The CIA wants us to fear them. The DEA wants us to fear them.

So convince America they can kill a President, orchestrate a mass false flag op and have a shadow government.

They live off fear.

Naomi Klein explains this a lot better than I.

[Cleita]

66. I don't disagree with you. We were discussing stuff like this since

the beginning days of DU but you are right Naomi came along and explained it better words than the rest of us.

[Taverner]

72. I tend to rule out conspiracy theories because the more people involved, the more chance of error

Part of why I agree with Bill Maher "We know Bush didn't do it because it worked!"

But get one or two people together, even three - and under the right circumstances they can do a lot of damage.

All of the intelligence communities have been gathering data, there is no way to find what they are looking for. You are talking searching through Zettabytes of data. It is a breach of the 4th amendment, and it will result in many false arrests.

But if they make you THINK they have personalized files on you, probably on the desktop of some evil NSA guy wearing a blue shirt, white collar and "braces," watching your every move.

I'm sure they want us to think they killed Kennedy

I'm sure they want us to think there still exists an 'al-queda' (there isn't)

I'm sure they want us to think they may have had a hand behind 9/11

That kind of counter-propaganda can do a number on our collective fears and unease

Then...go to commercial. Look at the happy people selling shiny objects. Isn't that nice!

Just a phone call away....

[malaise]

71. Whatever - it's frightening n/t

[George II]

53. I think it was Elvis who did the hacking.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

55. I saw this, and wound up discussing it on Huffpost.

There's always the possibility that someone caused this. And I believe it may have been caused by any number of agencies, including the military. But this kind of behavior goes back through our history. What doesn't seem possible is to cause that car to hit a tree which were sparse on that street. There are some, but it would mean very exacting control to be able to hit it. Like another driver was actually driving the car. Is that possible?

[Cleita]

56. The coroner has verified that the body is Hastings.

However, to take your theory a step forward. Could Michael have been killed before and driven to that area while the actual driver jumped and then maybe by remote detonated a bomb that caused the car to crash and light on fire? Anything is possible at this point. I think it's time for the authorities to tell us what they know. A good cremation of the body would obliterate the evidence of a murder pretty much.

[zappaman]

58. You do realize there are witnesses who saw the car flying down the street?

And even video of it running a red light without even a pause?

[Cleita]

63. There is also testimony from his friend that he drove like a grandma.

Somebody like that doesn't suddenly turn into a NASCAR driver unless he's being chased and there are no witnesses that saw him being chased, which leaves open the possibility somebody far more reckless that he was driving and jumped the car just before the explosion and crash. And don't think it can be done. Any good movie stuntman can do it and Hollywood is full of stuntmen.

[zappaman]

67. Really?

Someone jumped out of a car going 100mph?
And managed to flee the scene without anyone seeing him?

Good grief.

http://www.artofmanliness.com/2010/03/28/how-to-jump-from-a-speeding-car/

He told my American friend to hold his backpack in front of him to help soften the landing a bit and then to jump at an angle towards the shoulder of the road where there was dirt instead of pavement. His final instruction was to try to land on the shoulder and roll when they hit the ground. They tried to get the bus driver and the other passenger to join them, but they wouldn’t leave their seats. The two men looked down at the black pavement moving underneath them at 50 MPH, took a big breath, and jumped.

They hit the ground hard and rolled for several feet. Despite landing on soft earth, their clothing was ripped to shreds. They laid there on the side of the Tijuana road, tattered, but alive. A few seconds later they heard a horrendous crash. The bus couldn’t make the sharp turn and ended up running into the side of a canyon wall. The driver and all the other passengers died.


Now, these guys were lucky. Really lucky. Not too many people can walk away after jumping out of a speeding car without a broken bone. In fact, many people have died from jumping from a moving car. But my friends did some things right that increased their chances of surviving.

[Cleita]

74. I doubt if it was 100 miles an hour or even 80 or 60. That would be impossible to do on a street

with traffic lights on every corner. The witnesses who were stopped could have thought the car was going that fast but I doubt it. You know stunt drivers wear a lot protective wear so they can do what they do. But since this is just something to ponder, not believe, there is no point in discussing it any further unless there are some racers and stunt guys on the board who might want to weigh in with their expertise and put it to rest.

[zappaman]

76. You doubt that?

It's impossible?
Not at all, especially when you don't stop at traffic lights as THE VIDEO CLEARLY SHOWS.
Plus, if you have ever driven that street, and I do almost every day, you would know it would be easy to speed 100mph for most of the road. Especially, when it's 4AM and pretty much empty.
However, the road narrows considerably when it reaches the area where he crashed.
I can see why you wouldn't want to discuss it further since you really don't seem to know much about this crash.

[Cleita]

80. Neither do you. The video does not clearly show the speed the car was going.

It was not going a hundred miles for hours that's for sure, or it would be just a blur. If it was so empty at 4 AM, where did all those witnesses come from?

[laserhaas]

85. Witnesses "WHO"???? - Even "IF" the car did run a Red-light and was "flying down the street"; such

is NOT dispositive of either theory.

Zooming down the street and running red light could mean he was drunk, wreckless

and/or "running" from something/ someone.

[hr]
[br]
- - It could also be argued that the car was controlled.


Remote control of vehicles/ airplanes goes back to the 1940's

[zappaman]

87. *sigh*

Does anyone even bother doing any research before embracing a conspiracy theory?

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/hastings-crash-witness-113514329.html


"Was stopped at a red light tonight when a pearl white Mercedes flew past," Michael Carter wrote on Facebook a few hours later. "It shook my car like a freight truck going by. Saw it burst into flames a quarter mile down the road when it hit a tree."


and

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2013/06/michael_hastings_red_light_video_speeding.php

[Cleita]

89. And he timed it at a hundred miles an hour. Sure he did.

[laserhaas]

94. That is what I'm saying ---- tomatoe - tomahto

His flying down the street could be argued as evidence the car was rigged

that he had a heart attack

What about the old thing from years ago - "the Pedal stuck"

[hr][br]
To me - what is telltale - is the fact he had spouted reasons for caution
(and I'm not sure I believe Wikileaks - could also be grandstanding on the moment "faux&quot

[laserhaas]

86. Do you "really" believe (in this day & age) that we can unequivocally "trust" a Coroner's report

as 100% valid?

[Cleita]

88. Putting it that way we probably can't trust anything. However, it seems sensible to

believe that he made an accurate identification. Why would he say otherwise? It puts to rest as to whom the body was in the car. Then we can move on to other questions, like why was this body in the car and how did he die. Those questions haven't been answered.

[laserhaas]

97. It is now a fact that JFK was more than we did now (and even now know)

they have gotten way more sophisticated, experienced and brazen/ flagrant in how to manipulate U.S.

Be willing to trust - via verification.
[br][hr][br]

- - As for me, I want to know "what" it was that Hastings was working on "that" (according to Wikileaks)

made him cautious!

[Cleita]

98. The what hasn't been answered either. n/t

[SleeplessinSoCal]

93. I think he was driving, but I wonder if the cyber attack meant that someone

actually became the virtual driver and could see a tree in order to ram into it. The street isn't that wide in order to build up speed to ram it sideways to cause the car to burst open and into flames. It appears more like a bomb went off.

[zappaman]

57. Yes, the trees are so sparse on that street

Only one every 10 feet or so.
ALL single file in the median where he went into.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

92. There is maybe one tree every other block.

Google it!!

[zappaman]

107. Bullshit.

Drive it!

[Cleita]

113. So I looked at the street view on Google maps of Melrose of the accident site as

well as various videos of the crash scene. There are a bunch of trees lining that block that the accident happened in. Go look for yourself.

[zappaman]

114. I did when I drove those 9 blocks this morning.

128 trees.
Including 2 about 15 feet north of the impact and one about 15 feet south of the impact.
Anything else you need to know?

Poster claimed "There is maybe one tree every other block."
That claim is bullshit.

[Cleita]

115. Actually doing Google street view when you drive east that seems to be the case. n/t

[zappaman]

116. Highland does not go east. n/t

[Cleita]

117. Who cares what direction. I don't. We were actually discussing whether

Melrose has trees. Driving down on Google, it seems to vary. If you in fact do it everyday, maybe you should open your eyes. Melrose has few trees on parts of it and many trees where the accident occurred. Also, on one of the videos a fire hydrant was spewing water, so maybe he hit that first. East, west, north, south, who gives a shit because it's irrelevant about trees.

[zappaman]

118. You seem lost.

"We were actually discussing whether Melrose has trees."

We were discussing whether Highland has tress, not Melrose.
Highland is where the accident occurred.

Who gives a shit about facts?
Obviously, not you.

[Cleita]

119. I was not discussing Highland at all. No one is.

We are all discussing Melrose where he supposedly hit a tree and you said he couldn't, so now you are discussing Highland?

[zappaman]

120. He hit a tree on Highland.

In fact, I drove by it on HIGHLAND this morning...still some wreaths there.

"I looked down Highland and saw a giant fireball at the base of one of the palms that line the medians on Highland."
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/hastings-crash-witness-113514329.html

The horrific accident that took the life of the BuzzFeed journalist occurred about 4 am Tuesday morning on Hollywood’s Highland Avenue near Melrose.
www.inquisitr.com/809528/dramatic-michael-hastings-car-crash-video-released/#mf3TttSf3kH6TkiH.99

A local resident said that he saw the late-model Mercedes-Benz C250 coupe driving inordinately fast before impacting the tree on Highland Avenue just past Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/home-video-of-buzzfeed-reporter-michael-hastings-car-in-flames-surfaces/


No wonder you have no clue about this.
But now you have me feeling sorry for you.

[Cleita]

121. And this is important to you why?

The man is dead and there are questions, but you seem to worry about trees and streets. I'm sitting 200 miles north of there so I'm looking at the video of a man dying in flames and the street corner signs and all you care about is nitpicking where he hit a tree. There are other versions that say he turned on Melrose and that is where his car burned up. Fine you drive up and down Highland every day. You made it seem like it was Melrose. You didn't die in flames. He did.

I know you like to pick fights with other DUers because that's what you do and you will go after every irrelevant thing to make a silly point. Maybe it's time you got a social life.

[zappaman]

122. It's important to have facts.

Obviously, you don't care about them.
Again, any other things you care to make up?


ETA: I love how I when I demonstrated you didn't have the slightest clue about the most BASIC UNDENIABLE facts about this accident, you changed the subject as quickly as you could.
Sad.

[Cleita]

123. Yes, because you are always so factual yourself.

I've read your posts over the years and the facts you are interested in seem to be conveniently tailored to whomever you are trying to discredit at the moment. I could write a paper just on your attack tactics especially your penchant for red herrings and straw men, which are rife in this post alone.

[zappaman]

124. Now you engage in personal attacks

because you were shown to be clueless about the accident scene, but maintained your errors enough to add because you were so convinced you were right.

Go ahead and show me where I have conveniently tailored facts.
And get writing on your paper. I want to know my posts in this thread that are red herrings and straw men!



By the way, I forgot to add this latest bullshit to your bullshit list --"There are other versions that say he turned on Melrose and that is where his car burned up"

Links?

[Cleita]

125. I haven't attacked you at all. I just pointed out a fact about your posts and reasons for

doing what you do. You, on the other hand, have attacked me calling me names. Think about that. You also attacked other DUers on this thread. Google is full of stories about what happened and so is YouTube. I don't need to provide you with links to prove something you are obsessing about and that is a done deal. I'm interested in why he died and what we don't know.

[zappaman]

126. LOL!

" I don't need to provide you with links to prove something you are obsessing about."

I was asking you to provide links to back up your assertion"There are other versions that say he turned on Melrose and that is where his car burned up" "
You can't cuz you made it up.

This is funny too..."I haven't attacked you at all."

"'Yes, because you are always so factual yourself. I've read your posts over the years and the facts you are interested in seem to be conveniently tailored to whomever you are trying to discredit at the moment. I could write a paper just on your attack tactics especially your penchant for red herrings and straw men, which are rife in this post alone."

and this...

"Maybe it's time you got a social life."

and this;;;
"maybe you should open your eyes"

Too funny!

[Cleita]

127. Well, I'm happy you are so amused.

But I have to go do laundry and it's a lot more interesting than having a pissing match with you.

Enchante' and all that.

[zappaman]

128. Agreed,

Cut and run is probably your best option at this point.
I look forward to more of your expertise on this at a later date.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

137. I was being facetious because of the inability for people to acknowledge something.

It was a horrible crash or explosion or whatever happened. I think it was murder by some agency. I want to know by who and how. I just don't want claims like one tree every 10 ft to muddle it. I'm sorry I contributed to the muddle.

My sincere apologies.

[zappaman]

144. No problem.

Just wanted to clear up any factual misconceptions about the actual site which makes a difference in helping to determine what happened.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

136. They aren't 10 feet apart!

There are 4 palm trees in the median of that block spaced almost equally. That is not a 40 ft block. 10 ft apart would put about 40 trees in that median. This photo shows what I'm trying to explain:

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]


I'm very suspicious of the circumstances of this crash. I think he was murdered. I just want to know by who and how. Muddling up the evidence doesn't help.

[Cleita]

138. Okay, so do I, and quite honestly the spacing of the trees is not important when discussing

whether our cars can be hacked, which was what this original OP was about. Those of us not there can only guess from photos. People actually there physically investigating I hope will take measurements. However, I wonder if our real Hollywood CSIs are as competent as the fake CSIs from Hollywood on the TV screen? btw what is that thing at the bottom of the tree, a dead pigeon?

Another disturbing thing that has popped up is that the burnt body was identified from fingerprints of Michael's obtained by the FBI? I think I'm going to do another OP on it. Look for it.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

141. I think that the various agencies that claim to have our security in mind are doing far more harm

than good. But politics is going to always get in the way. And with a death like this, even more so. We expected more since the days of J. Edgar Hoover, but I naively thought we'd get tighter laws protecting citizens like Michael Hastings.

I also don't think Obama has any kind of control over what is being done. Feinstein may have. I'm going to start harassing her until she resigns or sets up a proper investigation into this death.

We should all be demanding Feinstein do this. She's in charge and this is her state where Michael Hastings died/was murdered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_Select_Committee_on_Intelligence

[Cleita]

142. I agree. We need to get Barbara Boxer on this too. She will probably try to do something

about it. I don't have much confidence in DiFi lifting a finger.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

135. I do. I get stuck in traffic there on my way to the valley.

[AzDar]

65. K & R

[reusrename]

100. I wonder if they can remotely pilot aircraft?

Nah, that's ridiculous.

[Berlum]

132. "Smirk." - George AWOL Bush (R)

[jberryhill]

101. There are simpler ways to kill people

It's a lot easier to have someone die as a victim of "random street crime".

I could never figure out in Bond movies why the bad guy sets up this elaborate mechanism to kill Bond, and then goes wandering off to let Bond escape, take out a bunch of henchmen, and blow up the headquarters.

[Cleita]

105. Don't wonder. It's fiction.

Reality is a bit weirder.

[tech3149]

103. Heard it earlier today on a radio show I think. Consider this

Since the late 90's or early 20's every car had an ECU (Engine Control Unit) that managed performance. Not long after that they started installing event monitors that could report data on vehicle status of things like throttle position, steering, brakes, and also accelerometer sensors for both forward and lateral movement.
Then throw in the Onstar capabilities. Why would it be so hard to integrate all of those systems and have the ability to control the ECU from an Onstar connection? My last and current car is a 98 manual everything, no Wi-Fi, Onstar, and I even have a GPS jammer.
Not that I'm a target for anyone but if I did his kind of work, I wouldn't take the chance. It's sort of like staying out of small airplanes.

[Cleita]

106. Perhaps this is the new small airplanes. n/t

[Onlooker]

108. Delusional

Let's not resort to delusions. I sit with people who believe in this kind of stuff. One is in the mental hospital right, after trying to kill himself for fear of being tortured by the spy agencies. If the spy agencies want to kill someone, why in the world would they use such sophisticated technology? They could just do a "random" drive by shooting or something like that. Technology risks leaving markers behind, involves a lot of people who might turn (such as a Snowden), and is not always reliable.

[Cleita]

111. So I guess we shouldn't look for answers when there are questions.

We know he was killed. That's all. We don't know anything else, but I guess there's nothing to see here. Move along. But if you are satisfied with no answers, all is well for you. Many of us are not.

[NoMoreWarNow]

110. I would like to know if there has been any real investigation of the car crash

and forensic analysis of the car

[Cleita]

112. Supposedly, there is an investigation going on and there are still toxicology tests

and other results still due from the Coroner, but no new facts are coming out, just a lot of unanswered questions. My big one is what was he doing between the time he texted his friend he was being watched by the FBI and the crash. Several hours passed and no one seems to know where he was. No one saw him. There are no eye witnesses or cell phone photos, surveillance camera photos or anything else explaining his whereabouts in those hours. Even if he had been asleep in a hotel room, there would have been evidence of his coming and going. Maybe the investigators have some information and they aren't releasing it just yet, so until they do, there are unanswered questions.

[KoKo]

130. There was article in "Vermont Life" about him in 2013 Summer Edition...

It was titled "Danger Man." Very creepy that that article was titled that in the Summer when he died.

I read either there or in another article that both his parents are physicians and one of his brothers. I would hope that whatever the Coroner's findings or the state of his body that his parents would have some ability to flag a report they don't feel is accurate. I don't think they would be pushovers. So that's probably a plus for whatever is found in the investigation.

[Cleita]

131. There's a lot of positives here. I didn't know about him having

physicians in the family, but that should keep the medicos involved honest. Also, he is in a community of some very committed journalists especially his colleagues from "The Nation" magazine. I don't believe his friends are going to leave a stone unturned. No one is saying anything right now probably waiting for the official story, but if the dots don't connect, I'm sure they will be on it.

[KansDem]

139. Couple this story with the one about FBI sniper attacks on Occupy leaders...

http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/06/27/fbi-document-deleted-plots-to-kill-occupy-leaders-if-deemed-necessary/

...makes such a theory more plausible.

[Waiting For Everyman]

145. Yes, this is disturbing. Richard Clarke is not a flake.

I think the story connection between Hastings and the NSA is not so much Jill Kelly per se, but the Petraeus takedown by wiretap which Russ Tice has recently mentioned. Hastings might've been on the trail of exposing some NSA blackmail. Just a hunch.

[Cleita]

146. Actually, a pretty good hunch. n/t