Zimmerman trial-many inconsistencies put together are all showing concocted story-Al Sharpton show

[graham4anything]

Therefore, Zim's story is 100% a lie

Today has shown at least five 100% lies.

Also, zim's not knowing, and is lying about the whole story.

He tracked
He had the gun ready to shoot (safety off) which is a major point, the gun couldn't fire without that, and in zim's story,
he wouldn't have been possible to later take that off
He pursued, he followed
He lied
He conviently forgot at some point (ala Rosemary Woods erasing a tape???)
He killed

Guilty and it seems some of the cops (but not all) helped zim which is why in first place it wasn't even considered a crime worth charging for.

Today bit by bit, lie by lie.

And the prosecutor later will ram these points through together in the closing statements.

Now, will Zimmerman have the guts to take the stand?

On Al Sharpton's show-
3 out of 4 call it for Prosecution.

I agree with that point of view.

as Marcia Clark said, these inconsistencies now show were all things that zim used to maintain he did nothing wrong.

I take that as-
One by one (Very Columbo nitpicking like) are cracking the story concocted by zim and some of the cops which is why at first
they did not even file charges against him, and were going to let the whole story slide.

IMHO

(then his use of "these guys always get away" show intent to not let "this guy"
It shows premeditated he knew what he was going to do (with the gun already ready to fire which it did)

[onehandle]

1. Black = Suspicious.

'They always get away.'

This one didn't.

[notadmblnd]

2. I watch Rev Al too, and I agree.

On one of the initial police interview recordings that I listened to, it sounded much to me like one of the officers was attempting to coach him on what happened.

[wercal]

3. Wrong about the safety

"He had the gun ready to shoot (safety off)"

The media reports the weapon was a Kel Tec PF-9.

It has no external safety, other than a long trigger pull.

A terrible idea...but no safety was turned 'off'.

[uppityperson]

5. Are you saying Z managed to pull his gun, take safety off and shoot TM while being smothered and

having his head pounded on the pavement so hard he thought he was going to pass out or die?

Or are you saying there is no safety on the gun Z carried around?

[SlipperySlope]

7. There is no safety on that pistol.

There is no safety on that pistol or on most other modern handguns.

To be technically precise - there is no external safety on most modern handguns. Their are usually numerous internal safeties.

The difference: an external safety would be some sort of switch or lever that needed to be flipped before the gun could fire. Internal safeties are mechanisms intended to prevent the gun from firing from being dropped, but they all disengage automatically when the trigger is pulled.

[uppityperson]

10. I was wondering about carrying around a gun inside your pants without a safety, but internal

safety makes that ok? I've been around rifles and shotguns, not hand guns so am seeking information. thanks.

[naaman fletcher]

12. whether or not an external safety is a good idea is debateable

Revolvers don't have them. Glock's don't either.

The general idea around not having a safety is the simple rule: If you pull the trigger it will fire.

If you go and put a safety on the gun you open it up to dumbasses pulling the trigger and later saying "I thought it was on safe"

[SlipperySlope]

13. Since you asked...

This isn't the correct forum to discuss firearm technology, but since you asked the question I'll expand a little bit more.

To understand the place of safeties on firearms it helps to begin by thinking about how they are typically carried. Shotguns and rifles are typically carried loaded and slung over the shoulder on a strap. Handguns are typically carried loaded and in a holster.

External safeties are extremely important when carrying a loaded shotgun or rifle because the trigger could easily be pulled if caught by an errant twig, if stepped on by your hunting dog, if the person trips and falls onto rocks, etc. The purpose of the safety in these cases is to prevent the trigger from being pulled in these sorts of accidents. External safeties have been a common feature on shotguns and rifles for over a century.

Handguns are historically carried in holsters - the holster itself is the first line of protection from the trigger being "accidentally" pulled in a fall or by something external like a tree branch. Typically the handguns is ready to fire as soon as it is pulled from the holster.

There are exceptions - some handguns do have external safeties as I'll now explain.

Revolvers: Pretty much universally do not have an external safety. The few that do are historical anomalies.

Pistols: Some do have safeties but most do not. The best explanation I have for this is that there is not universal agreement among police and military users as to whether safeties are a good feature or not. Some police forces specify pistols with safeties because they want their officers to be very deliberate before potentially shooting someone, most police forces reject safeties because they are afraid in time of stress the officer might forget to turn it off - and get killed due to the delay.

I don't have sales figures but I would bet that 8 out of 10 modern handguns sold today do not have external safeties.


Edit: Specifically regarding your question about carrying a handgun inside your pants with no safety: It is practically impossible for a modern handgun with a properly designed internal safety (*1) to fire unless the trigger is pulled (*2). There is no legitimate fear of the gun "going off" although the acts of holstering and unholstering are dangerous if the trigger finger slips onto the trigger accidentally.

(*1) = I do not claim that all handguns have a properly designed internal safety, some of them are junk.
(*2) = Technically the gun can still fire if it reaches a temperature of about 300 degrees. If your pants are at 300 degrees you probably have other things you are worrying about.

[uppityperson]

14. Thank you for the answer, I really don't know much about the mechanics. So what is it when

someone says they dropped a gun, or it is written in the news that way, and it went off? Is that the improperly designed safety issue or crap reporting?

Again, just seeking info and thank you for giving it. No opinion asked here, and thanks for sticking with basic mechanics here. I do appreciate it all.

300 degree pants, makes me laugh.

[SlipperySlope]

16. When it is reported that the gun is dropped and went off...

Last edited Mon Jul 1, 2013, 11:14 PM - Edit history (1)

When it is reported that the gun is dropped and went off it is going to be one of three scenarios:

1: A rifle or shotgun was dropped. They typically do not contain the internal safety features that modern handguns have. There is at least one rifle (the Remington 700) that has been accused of being prone to firing when dropped - particularly if an amateur or unprofessional gunsmith had modified the trigger.

2: It is a poorly designed modern handgun or a non-modern handgun (say pre-1980 or so).

3: The person is lying.

Generally speaking, there are two ways a gun could "go off" when dropped.

1: The gun is carried with the internal firing mechanism "cocked"; i.e. all the parts needed to fire are stored under spring pressure waiting to release. If the fall makes the internal trigger mechanism trip then the gun will fire. Guns that are designed to be carried with the firing mechanism "cocked" almost universally do have external safeties (handguns and long arms alike).

2: The gun is not carried with the internal firing mechanism "cocked", but if the gun is dropped the internal parts could move in unexpected ways due to the forces involved when it hits the ground. These are the types of guns that if "properly designed", there will be internal safeties that specifically prevent the force of hitting the ground from moving any parts related to firing.

I'll add that when I say "properly designed" I am stating my non-professional opinion. There is no national law in the United States that requires all handguns have internal safeties. Some states do have laws that effectively require this. Also, since most police and military require guns to be "drop proof" when they are procuring new weapons, pretty much any major gun maker that designs a handgun they intend to sell to military or police are going to design them to be "drop proof". The exceptions that are left are some very inexpensive handguns, and modern production of older designs. There are handguns being made and sold today that were designed over a century ago - anything designed prior to 1980 or so probably doesn't contain these features.

[uppityperson]

18. Thank you, non-professional opinion works and that all makes sense. Thanks. nt

[wercal]

8. No external safety

[uppityperson]

9. OK, thank you. Appreciate the answer

[catbyte]

4. Thank God for people like Al Sharpton. If not for them this would never

have been properly investigated. They essentially closed it that night.

[ceonupe]

11. in further displays of wanting it bothways

Al Sharpton leads the charge aginst racism but signs a book deal with Cash Money Records.

Same cash money that Lil Wayne ("Beat that Pussy like Emit Till&quot is signed to.

a little consistency AL thats all im asking for. You lead funerals for the N-word but sign to a company who made all of its money of promoting the most vile of black man sterotypes an N-word laden lyrics.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. So you're upset that you can't say n_____?

[ceonupe]

19. No im upset that AL does not hold himself to the same standards he wants to hold others to

No im upset that AL does not hold himself to the same standards he wants to hold others to.

I was not really a huge AL fan at all until about 5 years ago. I felt AL had turned the corner from agitator to legitamte political commentator with principled stances and an openly progressive style and substance to his arguments. I found him to be far easier to follow and understand than Jessie "where is the TV camera Jackson". When he got his guest hosting gigs on cable news it showed a more complete picture of him and his stances.

I personally have more of a problem with the images Cash money Records presents to our youth and specifically young black males. But yeah claiming to be out raged over little waynes verese and then signing to the same label is very hypocritical.

[catbyte]

20. So do you do business with everyone you agree with 100% of the time?

Wow.

[warrior1]

6. It's also what I believe Faith

might have said, or Al about depraved mind. That's on the 911 tapes calling him a fucking punk, etc.

[moondust]

17. Is everybody watching the same trial?

On AC360, 3 out of 4 called today basically a slam dunk for the defense, dismissing the inconsistencies as "everybody tells the same story differently whenever they tell it."



At the police station after the incident the police told Zimmerman they couldn't identify the victim and Zimmerman "acted like" he didn't even know Trayvon was dead. WTF? That's the biggest whopper I've heard yet.