Snowden: Obama Using "Citizenship As A Weapon"

He left "before" he leaked his information, so that's just BS about having to leave because his freedom and safety were under threat.

A couple of points:

passport revocation may be (and is) done for a number of reasons, including when there is a federal warrant for arrest or when there is an extradition request.

He wouldn't be "stateless" if he hadn't fled the United States.

And therefore you are a Man or Woman..."Without a Country."

That's WHY he's still there in Russian Airport.

They are two entirely different things.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

and if your Passport was Revoked by USA...you are a "Person without a Country" when it's revoked if you are out of the USA or IN.

So...if you have other information give a link to it if US Policy has changed since my latest Passport Issue.

Okay?

"We All Make the Bed We Must Lie In" (via Bertolt Brecht)

then few here would understand the lyrics

It's odd that there are so few recordings from The Rise and Fall of the City of Mahagonny in English (there's apparently one with Audra McDonald and Patti Lupone, but that sounds so pop to me). It's a favorite, and it's performed quite rarely. More and more these days, my head seems to resort to songs by Brecht & Weill as I contemplate the crazy disorder in the world and in our culture. Does it mean we feel we are in a Weimar kind of period again? If so, the words of Karl Marx in his 18 Brumaire of Napoleon ring ever more true: history is always repeated twice, first as tragedy, second as farce.

The president does not want him to travel with material that does not belong to him. Koko.

just like any other citizen who doesn't have a passport.

Part of the process. He's a fugitive from justice. He's a national security risk. Look it up. He pretty much ticked all the boxes for reasons to revoke. I posted the info last week. I won't dig it up again.

WTF did he think would happen? He's an idiot airport dweller. Who's gonna want a traitor in their midst? He sold out the country of his BIRTH ferchrisake. He's tainted goods.

That's the point. And he'd still be a citizen. A citizen who would have to face the charges levied against him, and would have to stand trial. That's what people who perform acts of civil disobedience do. That's what Ellsberg did: voluntary presented himself to the court. He didn't flee the country.

The statement that he has no citizenship, in the OP, is 100% false.

Edward Snowden is the master of his own fate. He chose to take all the documents, which is certainly an act that was up to him to do. But it was illegal and he knew it was illegal. Rather than standing some principled ground by submitting to a trial, he chose to flee to Hong Kong, and then Russia, in an attempt to get Ecuadorean asylum. His predicament is entirely his own.

If he's a man without a country now, it was by his own choice.

He's a citizen. He only needs a passport to be admitted to other countries.

This claim shows what a liar he is. That's no longer in question.

§ 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports.

... (b) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:

(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony ... <or>

(5) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional request for extradition which has been presented to the government of a foreign country ...

§ 51.62 Revocation or limitation of passports.

(a) The Department may revoke or limit a passport when

(1) The bearer of the passport may be denied a passport under 22 CFR 51.60 ...

§ 51.65 Notification of denial or revocation of passport.

(a) The Department will notify in writing any person .. whose passport has been revoked ...

§ 51.66 Surrender of passport.

The bearer of a passport that is revoked must surrender it .. upon demand ...

http://cfr.regstoday.com/22cfr51.aspx#22_CFR_51pSUBPART_E

from traveling elsewhere.

He's still a US citizen and can return to the US to face trial at any time. Or he can accept asylum in any country that is willing to take him.

at least for x number of years after release

Like I figured, the guy is a noob to the international intelligence game and is in WAY over his head. Now he wants a mulligan.

You would think that a " real spy" would know what was going to happen to him once he left the country, then leaked the information. The comment that he left because he feared for his freedom and safety is just BS, he leaked after he left, not before.

It just breaks me up.



NOT!

Cry Baby...

Fuck his groupies too.

An my ignore list!



*PLONK*

Waaaah.

That's what's REALLY eating him.

The Whine is strong and the grapes are bitter with that sneaky snitch to China and Russia.

How unfair!

The executive is executing the law! Horrors!

Sid

That's just stupid.

Sorry nobody else wanted your lame ass, Snowball.

whine ignorantly in Russia about "not having been convicted of anything".. no, that definitely hasn't happned, genius. Did someone feed him bullshit and now he's lashing out at Pres Obama for 'messing with his getaway"?

And, what's up with Snowden saying.. he's "not here to hide from Justice".. which is clearly a lie?

Snowden?

The USA hasn't betrayed me.

Now he's whining his damn head off like a whiny little bully victim.

Have a nice evening.

We (as in the majority) let 9/11 go to our heads and we elected people who enabled the existence of these programs.

for stealing classified documents is not. When you're charged with a felony, the government can revoke your passport to keep you from running away. In that sense, he's just like any other alleged felon on the lam.

is that what you are saying?

a wrong justifies every other wrong by anyone that occurs later.

great logic

endorses logical fallacies

Yeah, he's a genius, all right!

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

genius. Does he have enough pacifiers?

that revoking the passport of federal fugitives is common procedure at State. How can Mr. Snowden possibly be confused about this simple matter of law when he is surrounded by such stellar legal help as his "WikiLeaks attorneys?"



Farce. Pure, unadulterated farce.

Go back and face the music, leaker.. if you're not hiding from Justice.. and quit your damn ignorant whining. You're your own worst enemy, Snowden.

WAH WAH WAH.. What's citizenship got to do with passport? Is he just using flameable words to get his fans frothing? WTF did you think would happen when you went squealing like a stuck pig to China? And, now Russia?

That's it exactly and an usual they jump right on, now romanticizing him as a man without a country!

his fuckups. That sounds just like the rwing whinging about Obama. Of course, fucking libertarians do that too.

Has he found his libertarian paradise yet?

in regards to ours...

Fail. I voted to flush the toilet on that bullshit but it seems to have been futile as damn little as changed in this regard.

Russia just practically outlawed talking about homosexuality with fines and jail time. Don't even try to make a fucking comparison between us and Russia. We got our problems, but we are miles beyond that kind of shit. People like you need to actually live under some real hard tyranny for a day to give you some damn perspective.

I'm totally for reigning this NSA shit, way, way, waaaaaay in. But Christ, the hyperbole is just embarrassing.

ask the many, including many Chinese and Russians, who would be very happy to take Eddie's citizenship for him.

Snowden's "citizenship"that he isn't losing btw)?

I'm as free as a bird, how about you?

How about you?

Really, he'd be "freer" back here in jail.

nose kid. And, he's fooking pissing me off.

He's fucking with Biden, too..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014524412

running from justice. If he's so righteous, he'd come back and face the charges. It's not like this is not a free country in which he could have his lawyer do all sorts of grandstanding at the trial.

The President is simply carrying out the law - that's what Eddie's whining about. He's not being persecuted - he'd have due process.

Which is way more than Pootie Poot would give him if he thought Eddie was messing with Russia's security.

and his fans can't wait for the next serving.

Wonder if this has sunk in his brain yet?..

Uh Oh … Ecuador Throws Snowden Under Bus

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2013/07/uh_oh_ecuador_throws_snowden_under_bus.php?ref=fpblg

Unless the aim is to get rich, in which we have the best reputation as the place.

Does he believe what he's saying? This would happen to any fugitive from justice. Doubtless has happened to many before. He thinks he is entitled to break the law without consequences.

Though a citizen can voluntarily renounce it.

'droned' a few 'former' american citizens only after they stripped them of their citizenship.

Still not sure if this is correct.

But that's more of an annulment than a divorce

Natural born citizen can renounce their citizenship, but it cannot be taken away.

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years;

Russia won't let him in from the airport. He's pretty far from being able to apply for naturalization in it or any other foreign state.

or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

On second thought, he might be able to do this? If he can get a notary to the airport? Though that does not mean the foreign state in question will have him, but at least he could do away with his US citizenship.

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if
(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or
(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

A foreign army letting him in or commissioning him as office doesn't seem to be in the cards.

(4)
(A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or
(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

He can't get into a foreign state let along serve it in any office

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or

How's he gonna get to the consulate?

(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

He's not in the United States

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, or violating section 2384 of title 18 by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if and when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

Hasn't been charged with any of that.

OTOH, his PoV could be the result of him getting craptastic legal advice from the usual Assangist lawyers, who have sometimes shown great creativity in their legal theories -- a recent one being that Assange, who jumped bail to seek refuge in the embassy because extradition to Sweden supposedly would result in him being sent to Guantanamo for torture and execution, now could no longer dare to leave the embassy even if the Swedes dropped their extradition case, apparently because the UK also now wants to send him to Guantanamo for torture and execution -- though to judge from the recent noises coming from Ecuador, Mr Assange may be tempting the Ecuadorians to fly him to Guantanamo themselves if they can't find any other way to get him out of the embassy

I think the Ecuadorians are regretting their overly generous asylum law. It's a wonder they are not overrun with requests from every person under indictment for a crime in any country. The one asylee they have is costing them quite a bit of trouble.

Notebook computers were a basic right. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure it isn't

He can turn himself in.

And apparently Snowden doesn't quite grasp the difference between citizenship and a valid passport.

He's still a US citizen....he's just one in big fucking trouble right about now.

That's like crying that the cops are being unfair and are using driving privileges as a weapon, having taken away his license because he won't stop driving drunk!

Come back and answer the charges, Eddie...if you dare!

I would really like to see as many posts about what has been revealed as I have seen about him being a hero or traitor. I have let it be known what I think of him personally. What is important is what has been revealed. I still don't think I have seen anything revealed that wasn't already known.