Yes, George Zimmerman is in fact a "creepy cracker".

[backscatter712]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/01/1220320/-Yes-George-Zimmerman-is-in-Fact-a-Creepy-Cracker

Yes, George Zimmerman is in Fact a "Creepy Cracker"
by chaunceydevega

...

While talking on the phone to his friend Rachel Jaentel, Trayvon Martin apparently called George Zimmerman, the man who followed him in a vehicle, exited it with a gun, and pursued him against police instructions, a “creepy ass cracker.” In a twist of thinking, and an inversion of what studied, learned, and reasonable people understand about the realities of race and power in America, for colorblind conservative racists, George Zimmerman has been magically transformed into a victim of “reverse racism.”

...

The truth can also be inconvenient: by virtue of his actions and character, George Zimmerman is in fact a "creepy cracker."

...

Cracker is in no way equivalent to the word nigger.

Were millions of white people killed and enslaved by blacks holding the lash and calling them “crackers?” Were there signs that segregated whites from blacks that read “no crackers need apply” or “crackers sit in the back of the bus”? Were white people burned alive, their bodies defiled, postcards taken of their corpses, and public gatherings where blacks killed “crackers” by the thousands? Were there racial pogroms where blacks running amok, pillaging, raping, murdering and destroying property at will, yelled out for the blood of “crackers” in places like Tulsa, East St. Louis, Chicago, and Rosewood? Were there sundown towns that had signs on their outskirts which told "crackers" “not to let the sun set on them here” or they will be killed?

No. To suggest that the words "cracker" and "nigger" are at all similar is an act which is both intellectually dishonest and a lie.

[dkf]

1. Isn't a "cracker" someone who whips slaves?

I used to think it was fairly benign not understanding the history, but that seems pretty strong now.

[dkf]

4. Why wouldn't both be considered extremely offensive but the n word more so?

Why do they have to be equivalently bad in order to dislike its usage? And isn't it the flip side of the coin where the whole idea of slavery is ugly? Being lumped in with slave owners is no happy thing I would imagine.

[backscatter712]

5. George Zimmerman is an extremely offensive person...

And he's certainly creepy. Trayvon thought he was some sort of molester. Just saying...

And I'd say the main difference (taking cracker in its ugliest context) is that while the n-word is a term of dehumanization used in a history of slavery and repression against the word's target (that makes the word extremely offensive), cracker describes the flip-side - it's a word used by targets of oppression against their oppressors.

So yeah, in my judgment, I'd tend to take more offense at seeing the n-bomb dropped.

[dkf]

7. I now have a problem with both words, not that I use either.

They are both words of hate and prejudice and antagonism.

[HipChick]

34. Wait...When was the last time White People were oppressed?

so yeah..n*word more offensive

[BellaKos]

44. O'bother

Two hundred years ago, "cracker" referred to the one who *cracked* the whip on southern plantations.
Fifty years ago, it was used to describe rednecks in the South.
Today, it's just common venacular.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. The word 'cracker' comes from the word 'Craic' pronounced 'crack' which means

conversation, bullshitting, bragging...the word is still in use, one goes down the pub for a pint and some good craic.
The term is used to describe rustic and rural 'big talkers' in Shakespeare, the entire lot of Southern colonists got the name early on and eventually it applied specifically in Florida to cattle handlers, we say 'cowboys' they said 'cracker cowhunters'. A goodly portion of the Cracker Cowboys were Seminole Indians and Spaniards as well as Anglos.
There are entire books to be read about the Crackers and many have read The Yearling or Cross Creek for example.
http://www.thehistorychannelclub.com/articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/239/florida-crackers-americas-tropical-cowboys

[dkf]

13. That makes no sense why it applies to white people.

[snooper2]

27. what color are crackers?

[Bluenorthwest]

32. The term comes from Colonial times, what we call a 'cracker' food wise is called

a savory biscuit and actually did not come about until the 1790's many years after the word 'cracker' was being used to describe people with certain attributes, loud, rural and prone to big talk.
"What cracker is this same that deafe our eares with this abundance of superfluous breath?" —- William Shakespeare, King John, Act II, Scene 1, 1594.

As early as the 1760s, this term was in use by the upper class planters in the British North American colonies to refer to Scots-Irish and English settlers in the south. From a letter to the Earl of Dartmouth :

'I should explain to your Lordship what is meant by Crackers; a name they have got from being great boasters; they are a lawless set of rascalls on the frontiers of Virginia, Maryland, the Carolinas, and Georgia, who often change their places of abode."

[snooper2]

36. Interesting, I like the modern usage by Chris Rock though

He just has a way of saying "cracker ass cracker"

[Bluenorthwest]

45. I've worked with Chris, he uses lots of words I'd never use

but he'd also very much understand the difference is speaking of the roots of a word and how that word might be used by him, her, then, now, whatever. The word 'cracker' as a term meaning Southern rural folks predates the first culinary 'Cracker' so you know, you asked what color is a cracker, as if the people were named after the snack, when that is not the case. In Florida, the Cracker Cowboys were Spanish, Seminole and Scots Irish, so to color code them would take several stages of burning your biscuit.
Chris uses 'faggot' freely and claims when he says it 'it doesn't mean gay'. He's self indulgent in that way, intellectually dishonest as he is about many of his lexicon excuses, he uses those words because they make him money. Chris likes money and says faggot and such to make money. Is he a homophobe? Nope. But he has a homophobic lexicon because he is one venal and petite man, small and greedy.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

81. That explains why Zimmerman didn't get soggy in the rain.

[Bluenorthwest]

31. That's because it did not mean 'white people' it mean 'rural colonists in the South

who raised cattle'. It makes much sense if you are comfy in London and noisy, poorly spoken folks come and tell you about conditions in GA or FL that had to be very exaggerated, tales of heat and humidity, monsters in swamps, bugs the size of mice....
The work they did, also very loud, cattle drives are loud. Especially when compared to Hampton Court.
The term first applied to rustics in general, later to Colonial rustics in specific. The 'Florida Crackers' were Anglo, Spanish and also Seminole. Not 'white' but 'crackers'. Can be a cracker and not white, can be white and not a cracker, those who first deemed others to be Crackers were whites. Speaking of whites.
Goes back to the 1400's. At least.
That's not to say that folks do not use it thinking it means 'white person' but people misuse lots of words.

[Voice for Peace]

51. it makes sense to me: the crackers are the braggarts, the arrogant ones

and it's likely they'd be viewed that way whether
they cracked a whip or not.

[Erose999]

20. Craic is also the root of the expression "cracking a joke". Cracker was applied to southern settlers

of Scotch/Irish heritage for their love of jokes and pranks. Thats one account I read in a journal of Southern culture. And of course it was adopted by the Florida cattlemen. I know of many good people in middle Florida who refer to themselves as "Florida Crackers" with pride.

[noiretextatique]

83. my great great grandparents were enslaved

i also had slaveowners in my bloodlines. what is so problemmatic about acknowledging history and reality? if americans did that more often instead of pretending we are now in some post-racial paradise, perhaps we wouldn't have so many zimmermans running around. i.e, people who think they have a right to kill "suspicious" black people.

[dkf]

87. You are not responsible for what your great grandparents did, only what you do.

People should be free to walk their own paths, not be shamed for the sins of others. It is not anyone's fault for being born.

[JustAnotherGen]

108. Nothing is problematic about it

Because when we ignore the ancestors - we make the same mistakes . . . over and over again.

[pipi_k]

14. It may not be as offensive to you...

but it is derogatory, and calling someone that name who never in his life cracked a whip at black slaves, and whose ancestors likely never did either, IS offensive.

[dkf]

25. Yet to accuse someone of being so inhuman that they believe others can be owned is no small thing.

And to make that assumption based on the color of a person's skin is wrong. How is that not prejudicial?

It's bad all the way around. It brings us back to a time to be ashamed of and tars people with the sins of the past. That is no way to heal wounds.

[backscatter712]

43. For Zimmerman in particular, the apple doesn't fall far from the slave-owning tree.

His behavior proved that.

[noiretextatique]

75. you know...this is pretty absurd

given the continued racism expressed by white people, e.g,, the tea party and the GOP. another manufactured non-scandal to distract from the real issue, which is the death of a young black man. and unforunately, that is a continuation of a sin of a reality that has existed since this country was founded, i.e., the ability to murder black people without consequence. to ignore that history is insane. and that is exactly what the right routinely does to paint themselves as victims.

[dkf]

85. I'm not white nor black so I view this as an outsider.

And I'm not commenting on the case so much as the use and meaning of "cracker" which I only recently discovered is the sound of the whip being used on slaves. What revolting imagery. Why would a black person use it? Does it not demean both ways?

[pipi_k]

41. As I wrote

the first time...

the word "cracker" may not be offensive to people, but the meaning of it is offensive, and Trayvon Martin's referring to George Zimmerman as a "Crazy ass cracker" when there is likely 100% chance that Zimmerman NEVER cracked a whip at a black slave is offensive.

Why would a black person even think of calling a white person he doesn't even know a "cracker"?

I don't refer to Asian people as "Chinks, Japs, Slant-eyes" or any other epithet. I don't refer to Italians as "Wops". I don't refer to Jews as "Hebes". I don't even call Frenchmen "Frog-eaters", even though my distant ancestors are from France.

There is absolutely NO reason for racial or cultural epithets. None. Not even if you're a black kid out buying Skittles and some white guy is following you.

[JimDandy]

77. No. Zimmerman is a creepy (pervert) ass cracker,

per Trayvon, not 'crazy ass...'

Cracker is not an offensive term among teens in WA State. It is the updated term of 'Whitey', among teens and equivalent to the term 'Homie' for an hispanic guy. It is so mainstream that it was routinely used as a descriptor within and among my son's group of racially mixed high school friends.

'Cracker' will become dated and be replaced by the next generation of teens, just like 'Whitey' was. Maybe even sooner, because since it was being used in WA State six years ago, it can't be cool any longer.

[pipi_k]

84. I couldn't remember

the exact quote... but I do know "cracker" was a part of it.

I can see why it's not offensive in WA state...if I recall, WA state wasn't exactly ground zero for the type of activities that led to the use (and meaning) of the word in the first place.

[John2]

68. I think that

you need to put the situation into perspective. Trayvon Martin was a juvenile Black male. Unless you walk in someone's shoes, you can't judge them much less this kid. On the other hand Zimmerman was a college student and adult male who studied Criminal Justice. That is way different than a 17 year old kid, at that early age to understand why people act the way they do.

In my opinion, racial profiling should have been part of the Trial. The American Justice System don't want to talk about race, because it is one of the biggest problems Americans try to hide from,especially consevatives. This boy was gunned downed because he was out walking while he was Black. And Mr Zimmerman, his father is a dam liar. I'll tell you what, if it was me out there and walking with a gun, I don't think Zimmerman would be crying self defense or his family if he was on the short end. It would have been even, except the judge and jury. They would probably hang me. And I'm pretty sure Mr Zimmerman would be crying for justice.

[pipi_k]

79. Trayvon Martin wasn't

out "walking while black".

He was a kid out coming back from the store who just happened to BE black.

He was wearing a hoodie. He could just as well have been a white kid looking suspicious.

And I'm not discounting the fact that so many black people look suspicious to whites because they're afraid of looking suspicious, if you know what I mean. They quite rightly don't want to attract negative attention. They're trying hard NOT to look suspicious, and in trying hard, they may be putting out some strange vibes that people pick up on.

So yeah... I can understand why someone who's out following a stranger might become suspicious if it looks like the person is trying too hard not to look suspicious, no matter what color the person is.

[DonCoquixote]

35. In Florida

The word is used by native=born Florida folk, because their ancestors drove Cattle with the whip.

http://crackercountry.org/

[RockaFowler]

54. That's how I remember it in school

Most of the people who call themselves true Floridians call themselves Crackers

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. Not to mention "cracker" has several innocuous other meanings, and "n____r" does not.

Not just in the crunchy wafer snack along the line of the Ritz variety, but in 19th century Florida, the term "cracker" was often used for rural cattlemen whose name reflected the "crack" of their whip while they herded cattle. There is "cracker architecture", "cracker cuisine" and "cracker culture," and in none of those instances was "cracker" considered to be a pejorative.

True, "cracker" has also been taken to be a term used by blacks referring to whites they may consider racist, but in that case, it's more of a reactionary term as opposed to an epithet.

Whereas n______r is just, well, n____r.

[dkf]

6. That's exactly what I used to think, it was because those crunchy wafers were white.

But someone who whips and owns slaves...ugh. If that is the connotation behind it that is not good.

[hootinholler]

18. That is the connotation behind it.

I am offended by the term mainly because of its inflammatory nature. Once you use it there's no room for discussion.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. The culinary wafers were not called Crackers until 1790s

Similar things were called 'biscuits' prior to that, and still are in some places. You could look it up, Pilot Wafers or something they were called...first culinary cracker of record. People had been called Crackers for two hundred years already.

[RZM]

8. There's a certain irony

In using this case to distinguish between these two terms, since Trayvon himself used them interchangeably when he was referring to Zimmerman in the phone call to Rachel Jeantel.

For the record I don't think that the two terms carry equal weight at all.

[patricia92243]

9. I thought it was equal to calling people a redneck, country hick, hillbilly, etc. Example:

Georgia cracker - definitely means redneck - before the term redneck was popular.

[cali]

10. I agree that "cracker" isn't the equivalent of the "n" word but

it's still a racially based slur

[backscatter712]

11. Speaking as the target of that particular slur, if I'm called it, I'll survive the experience.

Well, I'm not from the Deep South, but I'm white.

The word doesn't have the sting to it that the n-word does for black people.

[dkf]

15. Part of it is how personally offended you are.

Anyone can decide they aren't going to get upset over words, but not everyone will feel that way.

[Bluenorthwest]

19. I'm a northern, affluent, urban intellectual white gay man, if you call me a Cracker

I'll know you don't know what a Cracker is. Cracker does not mean 'white person' it describes a certain sort of person, not a certain color of person. More to the point, white folks who are of my 'class' can, have, and did refer to Crackers as Crackers in a disparaging way, because we are not Crackers, they are.

[BellaKos]

57. Bluenorthwest

I was reared in Georgia. My grandparents were farmers. I am heterosexual and female. I, too, am white.
And I had always thought of Cracker in the same way as you. It was a matter of class. *Those* uncouth, ill-mannered people were Crackers, not people in *my* family.

[HockeyMom]

94. I have never heard a Northern Black refer to a Northern White as a Cracker

Would you call Mike Bloomberg or Donald Trump a Cracker?? But they are white, aren't they? Cracker refers to whites of a lower class from the South. I HAVE heard Northern Whites refer to Southern Whites as Crackers. A slur? Yes, but it is not racial but regional and class specific.

My feeling is that the dumb, comedian (Knock Knock) wanna be Defense Attorney was trying to inflame the white jury in Florida. As somebody else said, I have heard NATIVE Floridians (as opposed to the 2/3 Florida Transplants) refer to themselves as Crackers, and they say it with PRIDE. It is to distinguish themselves from all the people who come to Florida from someplace else.

[cali]

22. OK, but it is offensive to a lot of folks, so why use it. Is it that important

to have in your lexicon?

[RZM]

28. +1

Seems to me the attempts to rank the offensiveness of various terms misses the point. Why use any of them in the first place?

[pipi_k]

23. If you want to use that logic...

then wouldn't it also be true that calling a person any name at all would not literally kill him or her?

I'm not saying that it's OK.

Just that it kind of doesn't make sense to imply that a racial epithet has the power to literally kill someone.

And I'm not talking about anything other than the word itself.

Plus...there's something about groups of people being able to call each other offensive names without offending each other whereas someone outside the group can't do it. If a white person wants to call me a "cracker"...hey...fine.

If a black person calls me a "cracker"...not fine. Just like many blacks can call each other the "N" word, but I, as a white person can't...and would never even consider it, even joking around. Never.

[John2]

82. You still missing the

point. You are acting as if you profiled Martin or was chasing him for no reason. What you are doing, is throwing things out of proportion to confuse the real issue. Matin called the person chasing him a cracker, not you. It was a normal reaction from a kid who thought this whiteman was attacking him just for being Black. African Americans are profiled a lot. There are reasons studies show African American kids get busted more for pot than white kids. Do you really understand the research in the Literature, to know about the subject? In other words, have you studied Disproportionate Minority Contact, which is a special program of DOJ. If you learn more about it, then you will understand the dynamics of race in this Country and with Law Enforcement.

[pipi_k]

86. What I know...

is that it's not...or should not be, permissible...to call anyone a name no matter what's going on.

OK, I get the point that Trayvon Martin was young. He wouldn't know any better.

But what's disturbing is the number of adults here who cheer on the use of racial or cultural epithets. I would think they would know better.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. It is not the equivalent at all,it is kind of sort of racially based, kind of and is not

really a slur. People identify as Crackers and celebrate the history of Cracker culture which is multi ethnic, Anglo, Spanish and Seminole among other things. Any word can be said with ungly intentions, including 'honey' 'dear' 'sweetie' but like Cracker those words are not in themselves insulting.
The book The Yearling and Cross Creek are books involving Cracker culture and history.
http://www.thehistorychannelclub.com/articles/articletype/articleview/articleid/239/florida-crackers-americas-tropical-cowboys

It is a word very unlike the other word, in history, in use and in actual meaning.

[cali]

37. sorry, but it is a racially based slur and as pointed out by someone else

in this thread, that's how it's used today.

As I said, it's not the equivalent of the "n" word, but that's faint praise for what is a racial slur. Why defend the use of ANY racial slur?

[Bluenorthwest]

66. No, it is obviously used by some as a racially based slur, but that does not mean

this is what the word is nor does it mean that is the only current use of the term. It has many uses today.
This is about words, cali. You ask 'why defend the use of any racial slur?' but no one is doing that. I certainly am not doing that. I am defining the word and the roots of the word and comparing it and contrasting it to other words I don't use.
People identify themselves and their family history as Crackers. To declare that the word is exclusively a slur rather than selectively a slur denies them the right to their history. I reject that.
People asked where the word came from. I addressed that. It is interesting American history which I have known for years. About Cowboys and Spaniards and Semioles and Scots Irish and colonial and territorial times, why some people went to Florida and how some peoples were born there.
Do you think 'liberal' is a bad word because Republicans define it is 'tax and spend big government'?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

50. There's a restaraunt in Cross Creek called The Yearling which specializes in Cracker Cuisine.

http://www.yearlingrestaurant.net/

I've eaten there before, pretty good food. Alligator tail and frogs legs and quail and such. If you are in the Gainesville or Ocala area, it is worth a visit.

Obviously inspired by Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings' works.

[Skip Intro]

29. Yes, it is a racial slur and that is how it is used today. n/t

[CreekDog]

110. you alerted the OP for being a racist slur, have you ever alerted one racist against black people?

have you?

[Skip Intro]

111. Geeze, do you ever pull that stick out?

Last edited Tue Jul 2, 2013, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[Pelican]

21. It isn't reverse racism.. It's just racism...

[WovenGems]

30. Nope

I am as white as a cracker, yet a whole bunch of my fellow crackers fall into the crazy cracker group and even more into the white trash group. Individuals can indeed be labeled without it being racist. Generalizing is where racism comes into play.

What do you know, that crux of the biscuit "context" is at it again. And given that, Zimmerman does indeed win a crazy cracker button for his prison duds.

[Skip Intro]

39. +100.

[Babel_17]

24. If my memory of reading Gone With the Wind is correct

The term was used to refer to middle class whites to contrast them to upper class whites.

Having said that, "cracker" has the meaning that people give it.

I'll say it implies that the person it is directed at is an ignorant tool of a racist system.

Not a nice word to use as a reflexive insult imo. It tangentially brings race into a verbal dispute.

Though it's mild compared to "nigger".

[backscatter712]

40. DEAD HONKEY!

Sorry. Reflexive word association!

[Sheldon Cooper]

76. The SNL skit reinforces the fact that there are no racial 'slurs' against white people

that carry anywhere near the weight of slurs against POC. If a black person called me a cracker or a honky I'd probably bust out laughing.

[Babel_17]

93. I agree, but in that skit Pryor used "cracker" in response

Pryor used "cracker" as his response to "burr head" in a game of escalating insults.

Yes, the insults to Chevy Chase could not match the nastiness that Chase was dealing out.

That was part of the humor (It culminates in "dead honkey&quot . The words in our common vocabulary to insult whites don't match the words to insult blacks.

That point can be used over and over but, imo, it's dishonest to say that "cracker" doesn't get used as a go-to insult against whites.

[Sheldon Cooper]

97. Yes, I'm familiar with the sketch.

I saw it on TV the first time it aired. I know why Pryor called Chase a cracker, and it may be used as a go-to insult for whites, but it has exactly zero power to inflict harm. It's not even close to being as hurtful as n-word and other slurs are. For any white person to be offended by being called a cracker is ridiculous.

[Babel_17]

103. I'm not getting your argument

I'm assuming you're not claiming that there aren't any insults that can do harm.

"Not being close as hurtful" does not equal not hurtful. If I call someone a cracker, with malice in my heart and using cracker to imply "a low class loser", then I wouldn't be surprised for that white person to be offended.

Frankly, I imagine most any white person would be offended by such a word being directed their way in anger.

So I disagree with your conclusion.

[Sheldon Cooper]

104. You'd really be offended if someone called you a cracker?

Really? That amazes me. I would understand you being offended if someone insulted you by calling you an asshole, douchebag, dickhead, etc. But cracker? I don't get that, not at all.

You are attempting to use the word to mean 'low class loser', which has nothing to do with race. But race is what is being discussed in this thread, primarily - we are talking about the word cracker as a slur against white folks.

When it comes to racial slurs, cracker is meaningless, and here's why: the n-word has centuries of oppression behind it, it is specifically directed at people for no reason other than the color of their skin, people have been beaten, raped, and lynched, all while being called ni**er. White people have never been systematically victimized while being called crackers. The attempts in this thread to equate it as a racial slur are ludicrous, IMO. There is simply no comparison and white people who would be offended by that are just silly.

[Babel_17]

105. Well, we're going far afield now

Blacks were oppressed so hard and for so long that they had to struggle to come to grips with why it was happening.

It was obvious that some of those that oppressed them did so because they had feelings of low self worth. They tormented blacks so as to feel better about their lot in life.

One name for these people was "cracker".

So if you use it in anger against someone it's like calling them an unsuccessful loser. How is that not an insult?

Btw, "dickhead" is in and of itself not much of an insult coming from a man to another man. Coming from a woman it's more of an insult. Now, if a man calls you any derogatory name, including dickhead, with the implication that he's daring you to take umbrage, then that's an insult.

Also btw, cracker has to do with race because it is used exclusively against whites. It also implies one is a racist. Do I really have to say that being called a racist is offensive?

Frankly, this matter has been settled, and for a while now.

Members of the African-American leadership network Project 21 are calling upon the Rainbow/PUSH organization to apologize for derogatory comments about fans of NASCAR auto racing made by Rainbow Sports director Charles Farrell.

In a recent interview with CNSNews.com, Farrell said, "there is a perception that stock car racing is a good ole' boy's Southern redneck cracker sport."

"Webster's definition of 'cracker' and 'redneck' point out that these words are meant to be 'used disparagingly.' Just because it's against the mostly-white NASCAR fan base doesn't make it any less offensive," said Project 21 director David Almasi.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/P21PRNASCARComment703.html

[Skip Intro]

26. Race-baiting self-deceiving hypocrisy. n/t

[kestrel91316]

33. I'm really learning a lot about some of you from your

coming to Zimmy's defense in this thread (and others).

[Skittles]

113. STOP IT DEVILGRRL

[backscatter712]

49. Me too!

Gotta love it when the gun-bunnies come out to play...

[RZM]

52. It's not the first time 'cracker' has been discussed on DU

Some people like the term, others don't. It's a debate that was going on long before anybody ever heard of George Zimmerman.

[pipi_k]

60. This is nasty.

You know, I haven't been around as long as many here, but long enough to see a distinct pattern.

It seems that any time there's an unfortunate/deadly incident involving two different races, it's always the minority person who's in the right. It's always the big, bad white person who's in the wrong.

All black people are victims of "whitey", even if they might not be, in the end.

I ask myself why that attitude would be so prevalent...I believe that many people are afraid of being called racists, and they need to prove to themselves and others that they're not. And, consequently, better than others.

What the hell...if they always stick up for the black person, they can't be a racist themselves, right?

I don't know what the truth is here, and if I do decide, it's not going to be based on someone's race.

[backscatter712]

70. In this case the black person WAS the victim of gratuitous violence from a white man.

And who can blame him for using the words "creepy ass cracker" after getting stalked by that creeper Zimmerman?

[Old Codger]

42. Something that seems to be missing

In the discourse over this whole Cluster F...

1. they talk about the so called "Stand Your Ground" laws , most I have read say that you have the right to stand your ground, you have no duty to retreat if you are legally allowed to be there.But,if you are the aggressor you are in the wrong period...

2.If taken as self defense, once again if you initiate the fight as appears to be the case in this one you cannot then claim self defense when it starts going against you, all you can do is run away..

This is why I think they never went after the stand your ground defense, it wasn't available under the existing circumstance since Zimmerman initiated the contact in the first place.....

[AtheistCrusader]

47. SYG is not in play.

It may have influenced the DA in not initially arresting and prosecuting Zimmerman, but beyond that it is not being invoked by the defense.

[Old Codger]

109. well

They had a chance to schedule a hearing on that and turned it down, that is what I was referring to, at the outset that was his big ploy..

[AtheistCrusader]

53. I don't give a shit if he called him every derogatory word in the book that could apply to white

people.

Doesn't change what happened. Wouldn't be a justification for what happened TO him. This 'fact' doesn't hunt, regardless of Martin's intent in using the word.

This is sideshow theater, probably to distract the jury.

The crux of the case is which party initiated the physical confrontation and why. Martin may have even 'swung first' and be perfectly justified in doing so, in his own capacity of 'self defense'. The only reason this issue is cloudy at all, is that Trayvon Martin didn't survive the encounter. That doesn't mean he didn't fight in self defense, nor that he wasn't perfectly justified in doing so.

Prosecution better be on the fucking ball, that's all I can say. This is a fucking mess.

[Hoyt]

55. Apt description of someone with a gun on their hip in public.

[RZM]

56. What about a non-white person with a gun on their hip in public?

Are they a creepy ass cracker too?

If not, then what are they? Maybe an honorary cracker? Like an English tea biscuit.

[Hoyt]

58. Yes "Honorary cracker." But truth is

most jerks with a gun on their hip are bigoted right wingers, scared of the big bad minorities.

[RZM]

62. So to continue with this line of discussion

Your argument is that white people who carry guns tend to do so because they are bigoted RWers who are afraid of minorities.

What about minorities who carry guns? What is your take on their motivation?

[Lizzie Poppet]

64. Does your pony know any other tricks?

Consider embracing other interests. There are far, FAR more important things going on in the world than the continued failure of American gun control proponents.

[pipi_k]

63. I'm afraid it's going to be

a waste of time to explain this concept, since it appears that many here feel it's OK for minorities...blacks in particular...to call whites just about any name they want to based on a couple of hundred years of slavery and lots of other very bad things.

By that reasoning, even those of us whose ancestors never even came close to owning slaves...like my French Canadian ancestors, some of whom farmed their own land in upstate NY, others who worked long hot hours in the mills of New England...are fair game for being called nasty things by minorities.

And, to make it worse, if we don't like it, we're probably...

racists!

sigh...

[Lizzie Poppet]

91. Ah, but that's "different!"

'Zackly: since I'm basically dead-fish-belly white, I have no right to object to being called a racist or to the use of insulting, race-based insults like "cracker." This despite my family having no history of owning slaves and in fact sacrificing two members to the cause of ending that vile institution in the Civil War. Because, you know...white privilege.

[Lizzie Poppet]

61. "To suggest that the words "cracker" and "nigger" are at all similar..."

Except they are similar. They're just not identical (in background or severity). But both are pejorative terms intended to insult and belittle...

[Skip Intro]

65. Jury votes 4-2 to allow racial slur.

Sad but not surprising:

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

DU is better than to allow offensive racial slurs to stand. Please hide.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Jul 2, 2013, 03:27 PM, and voted 2-4 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I see no reason to hide this OP.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I have to agree with this statement in the post:

"Cracker is in no way equivalent to the word nigger. "

While neither of those words are words I would personally use, Mr. Zimmerman was recorded on at least one police call profiling Travon Martin, doing nothing other than walking home, as one of those "f*
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The base of this case is about race. It's not the words that are offensive it's how people use them.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: I am so sick of this poster. The nasty shit he posts all over DU, stuff like this, the vile names he calls other DU'ers. He brags about doing it. It's disgusting! People like him make DU suck and are not interesting in debate or differing opinions, only lobbing the nastiest insults and posting inflammatory flamebaiting OPs like this one.

Thank you.

[backscatter712]

69. The effort to work the refs continues!

[Skip Intro]

72. ?

[wryter2000]

67. I've called him that numerous times

It always amuses my African American coworker when I use the word. But that's exactly what he is.

[The Straight Story]

71. So somebody else gets to decide what offends some people?

Guess maybe I will hold open doors for certain people after all....

[Skip Intro]

73. Slurs against any race or gender are bad, unless they're aimed at white males.

Get with the program!

[madville]

74. A Cracker is what they used to call cattlemen here in Florida

A Cracker is what they used to call cattlemen here in Florida. A good part of Florida used to be open range/fenced cattle land. The term came from the sounds of their whips constantly cracking as they were herding and/or driving cattle.

In the OP it was meant as a racial slur so of course the meaning is different but I usually think of the above when I here someone referred to as a Cracker or Florida Cracker.

[noiretextatique]

78. racist white people are eager to paint themselves as victims

poor gun-toting zimmerman had to shoot that kid because he called him a cracker

[pipi_k]

88. Fail.

Trayvon Martin didn't call Zimmerman a cracker. Not to his face, anyway. He said it on the phone to his friend.

Zimmerman didn't even know about the reference to "cracker" until the trial.

sigh...

[noiretextatique]

106. as i type, i guarantee you there is some asshole

somewhere claiming martin deserved to die for using the word cracker. the defense claimed that martin was making it racial

[backscatter712]

89. I know, rich, isn't it! White people being oppressed! Stop the presses!

[Sheldon Cooper]

98. Honest to god, can you believe it?

Poor white people are SO offended at being called crackers. It's fucking laughable, and it boggles my mind that so many here don't get this.

[noiretextatique]

107. i can understand that the term is offensive to some

i don't understand why people it is offensive to people who believe zimmerman had a right to kill martin because he was black. i am sure the talking heads a faux are all in a dither about it.

[Cleita]

80. Er, I don't think he's white enough to be a cracker.

Since he's half Peruvian like I'm half Chilean, beaner would be more appropriate, a name my white American cousins used to call me. We need to be accurate with our racial slurs.

Okay, I said the "b" word referring to myself and Zimmerman. Be kind when you scold and alert on me.

[backscatter712]

90. Martin wasn't in the state of mind to make such distinctions when he was being stalked. n/t

[Cleita]

95. I know he wasn't. Poor boy.

I was just having a brain fart. I didn't really mean to be offensive.

[NCTraveler]

92. I really don't think this article...

fosters any type of positive discussion. In no way is it relevant to the case. It doesn't really matter how bad Zimmerman and Trayvon are as people. An unarmed man was shot dead after being stalked and it just might be legal in the State of Florida due to technicalities. That is a pretty big deal.

[Cleita]

99. Thank you. The fact is that a young person is dead because we don't have

laws about people carrying weapons who really shouldn't.

[NM_Birder]

96. Public opnion, never cared about what really happened,

Just because Martin is black, doesn't mean it was a hate crime. And if you are truly watching the trial unfold with an objective mind, the prosecution's case shows an unnecessary engagement resulting in a horrible, unjustified killing of a person. Zimmerman killed Martin there is no question - there never was, however he wasn't "hunting for any unarmed black kid to kill" like so many seem to want the case to be. Our own President, and half the population came out and racially judged this case before it even went to trial, all in the name of being among the first to judge a "racist" guilty of a hate crime,..... to be perceived as a "social crusader" - because Martin is black. Just because someone of a different race kills a black person, doesn't mean it's automatically racially motivated, murder is sometimes just murder,.....or extreme stupidity resulting in the wrongful death of another person... is just extreme stupidity resulting in the wrongful death of another person. We have laws addressing negligence resulting in great bodily harm or death,..... not every dead black person killed by a white or Hispanic person is racially motivated.

Now as the prosecution makes it's case, or should I say validates the case the defense WAS going to TRY and present, many will blame the justice system for inequality.....always looking for some bigger cause to point a finger. Zimmerman killed Martin.....that in and of itself is bad enough, I feel as though what actually happened that night has been thrown aside, Martin's death, HIS FREAKING DEATH...is now just simply evidence of Zimmerman's racism or America's fetish with guns, whichever cause is more important to the people who want the case to be about their social cause.

What is about to happen is a shame, and you watch, the carnage that will follow once the prosecution finishes making the defense's case will be even worse. Zimmerman wrongfully and unjustifiably killed Martin, the facts support that in my opinion. However the public's NEED to find Zimmerman guilty of racism is what will ultimately cause the case to collapse. And Trayvon Martin will be forgotten, dead in his grave as soon as another opportunity for a nationwide racist fiasco presents itself.

It's a shame, it's unnecessary and it's not justice.

[appacom]

100. Creepy ass cracker was apt description given all that transpired.

[JimDandy]

101. Eerily prescient of Trayvon, unfortunately. n/t

[HockeyMom]

102. As a white woman in Florida,

I would have called him a creepy (fat) ass cracker, and a lot more aimed at his manhood, if he was following me.

[The Midway Rebel]

112. Informative thread! For all the Caucasians offended by the term "cracker"...

BOO FUCKING HOO!

[bravenak]

114. We used to call them peckerwoods.

My mom thought the word sounded funny, and her husband was white so when ever he would mess with people she called him a pecker wood. He also followed black men around cause they were suposedly selling drugs wearing a stun gun on one side and his revolver on one side. My mom made him stop carrying the gun.
One day he was doing his rounds outside of the building we managed and he zapped himself with the stun gun. They were all like" damn look how red that cracker is!" And laughed at him. That was the first time i heard that word.He stopped messing with them after that. I was so glad he didn't have his gun that day. I'm sure he would have shot somebody.
Sad to say when he finally did get to use that gun it wasn't on an intruder or criminal. Like many guns it was used on himself by himself. He was the real danger, not those guys hanging out smoking weed outside.