Here's your chance! Come defend the TPP and the secrecy

[cali]

that crafting it is shrouded in.

In other threads I've seen people defending the administration on this.

So come defend the administration trying to reinstate Trade Promotion Authority or fast track so that when the Senate votes on the agreement, they can only vote up or down, no filibustering, no amendments allowed.

Come defend a tribunal that corporations can appeal to that supersedes the laws of nations.

http://www.citizen.org/documents/TPP-and-the-environment.pdf

Defend 600 Corporate advisors having input into the agreement, but Congress critters not being allowed to even see drafts.

Defend this:

From another leak, we know the pact would also take aim at policies to control the cost of medicine. Pharmaceutical companies, which are among those enjoying access to negotiators as “advisers,” have long lobbied against government efforts to keep the cost of medicines down. Under the agreement, these companies could challenge such measures by claiming that they undermined their new rights granted by the deal.

<snip>

And yet another leak revealed that the deal would include even more expansive incentives to relocate domestic manufacturing offshore than were included in Nafta — a deal that drained millions of manufacturing jobs from the American economy.

<snip>

and this

The agreement would also be a boon for Wall Street and its campaign to water down regulations put in place after the 2008 financial crisis. Among other things, it would practically forbid bans on risky financial products, including the toxic derivatives that helped cause the crisis in the first place.

<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/03/opinion/obamas-covert-trade-deal.html?_r=0

[bvar22]

1. Thank You.

I've been waiting to see what "they" come up with to justify this latest attack on the Working Class.
This has been called "NAFTA on Steroids" for good reasons.





76% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck
http://money.cnn.com/2013/06/24/pf/emergency-savings/index.html


New Rule (Passed by Congress and signed by President Obama) signals Kiss of Death for Pensions
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100694955

Wealthy win lion's share of major tax breaks
http://www.boston.com/business/news/2013/05/29/wealthy-win-lion-share-major-tax-breaks/Ua0UyYle21EUXub7g1suCI/story.html

Half of America is in poverty, and its creeping toward 75%
http://www.alternet.org/economy/real-numbers-half-america-poverty-and-its-creeping-toward-75-0

Wealth gap widens as labor's share of income falls
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/wealth-gap-widens-labors-share-income-falls-1B6097385

As the Economy Recovers, the Wealth Gap Widens
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/rick-newman/2013/03/11/as-the-economy-recovers-the-wealth-gap-widens

Top One Percent Captured 121 Percent Of All Income Gains
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/12/top-one-percent-income-gains_n_2670455.html

Corporate Profits Hit Record High While Worker Wages Hit Record Low
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/12/03/1270541/corporate-profits-wages-record/?mobile=nc


These things ^ do NOT happen by accident.
They take careful planning, preparation, marketing, buying the right politicians, message control, and the marginalization of any opposition.

[cali]

3. more than welcome. and yes, I want to see the defense for

this atrocity.

I already saw someone justifying preventing Congress from seeing drafts. "too many cooks spoil the broth" was the defense.

[ohheckyeah]

5. No, they don't happen by accident.

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2013, 04:35 PM - Edit history (1)

There was a warning:

PEOPLE, I AM AGREEING WITH BVAR22 THAT THESE ATTACKS AGAINST AMERICAN WORKERS DIDN'T HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT - THIS ARTICLE IS FROM 2009 AND SHOWS THAT AT LEAST AS FAR BACK AS 2009 THERE WAS A CONCERTED EFFORT TO ATTACK AMERICAN WORKERS.



American Wages Out of Balance

By EDWARD HADAS, MARTIN HUTCHINSON and ANTONY CURRIE
Published: November 10, 2009

American workers are overpaid, relative to equally productive employees elsewhere doing the same work. If the global economy is to get into balance, that gap must close.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/business/11views.html?_r=3&

[bvar22]

28. So you believe American Workers are "overpaid",

....and wages and benefits need to be driven DOWN to 3rd World levels as a necessary re-adjustment?

Please proceed with your argument for an even steeper reduction in American wages.






You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
[font size=5 color=firebrick]Solidarity![/font]

[ohheckyeah]

31. Um, no....that's not what I think at all.

I was posting the article that said that American workers are overpaid as an example that it wasn't an accident....it was by design.

I referred to it as a warning to us (one that we didn't heed.)

I was agreeing with you.

[Enthusiast]

47. I'm glad you don't think American workers are overpaid.

But that meme is being promoted on the national stage like WMDs in Iraq.

[ohheckyeah]

61. That's the point - the article is from 2009.

The 1% planned this and this was one of the first articles I saw that made it obvious what they had planned for the rest of us.

[pampango]

37. American workers are not overpaid. German workers make 50% more and they are not "overpaid".

Can we compete with China's wages? Does government interference and regulation hold us back? Are our unions keeping us from being competitive? Do we need to lower our standard of living in a race to the bottom? You might be surprised to learn that Germany pays higher wages, has strong unions, has much more government involvement and is doing better as a result. Conclusion: our wages, unions and government are not the problem, they are the solution.

Hourly manufacturing compensation (wages plus benefits) was $48 in Germany in 2008 - the most recent year surveyed by the Bureau of Labor Statistics - while it was $32 in the United States. Yet Germany is an export giant, while we are the colossus of imports.

In Germany, workers also get six weeks vacation - by law, federally mandated, a right. They get health care, university, child care and pensions and as a result they have higher productivity. In Germany, the government requires worker representatives to hold seats on the boards of directors of companies, depending on the number of workers. Government-funded research and vocational training, and policies to retain skilled workers bring another competitive advantage.

The result of all this government interference is that Germany's export-oriented manufacturing economy recovered from the recession and is doing OK, and their workers are paid well and have great benefits.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/149305/good_wages,_unions_and_government_regulation_are_the_solutions,_not_causes,_of_our_economic_woes/

[ohheckyeah]

63. I agree that the American worker is not overpaid.

This article is from 2009 and was the first I saw in a long term plan to strip the American worker of pay, benefits, etc.

I'm getting the impression that nobody is actually reading what I said.

[sabrina 1]

36. Wow, it is OPEN now, right here on a Democratic forum.

Here's a thought for you. How about we INCREASE the income of foreign labor, and force our Corps to abide by the same standards we have here when they choose to go overseas, or lost any tax benefits and other subsidies they claim.

Of course that would cut into the obscene profits these Corps make so depending on your view of things, that might not appeal to you.

Me, I am all for equalizing the work force around the globe by increasing the wages of foreign workers to the equivalent level of a first world nation.

[ohheckyeah]

60. I don't agree with this article -

I posted it to show that this whole attack against American workers was planned YEARS ago.

Did you even read what I wrote before jumping all over me? I was agreeing with bvar22 that these things didn't happen by accident as evidenced by this 2009 article.

No, they don't happen by accident.

There was a warning:

[sabrina 1]

74. I'm sorry if I misunderstood, my mistake. I do get emotional about these things but that is no

excuse for nor reading more carefully before jumping all over someone. Again, I apologize.

[ohheckyeah]

75. Thank you...

apology accepted and I apologize if I didn't make myself clear.

I posted that article on my blog the first time in 2009 and two or three times since then, trying to get people to realize that the attack on American workers is a calculated and planned attack by the 1% on the 99%. It infuriates me. The article says nothing about the obscene amount of money CEOs make, no, it's just the real workers that it claims are making too much.

[HiPointDem]

62. bullshit.

[ohheckyeah]

64. Yes - that article IS bullshit

which was my point. Gheesh - read what I wrote. I posted it to point out that this whole attack against American workers was planned - starting at least as far back as this article in 2009.

Did you even read what I said or are you just having a knee jerk reaction to the article?

Now I remember why I don't post much.

[onethatcares]

69. American workers are overfed relative to

equally productive workers elsewhere, along with being over housed, over medicated and watch too much teevee.

The global economy to me means serfs and lords, and I'm not a lord.

[Starry Messenger]

2. k&r

[Brickbat]

4. K&R. Thanks for doing the work on this.

[democrank]

6. Are you forgetting something, Cali?

Corporations are people, too. We`re supposed to nod......not question.

[felix_numinous]

20. Corporations are Super Citizens

who can't get busted no matter what they do.

[antigop]

7. can't defend it, but I will give it a k&r nt

[JEB]

8. No defense here.

My guess...some folks enjoy having a wire brush shoved up their behind.

[ZombieHorde]

9. I'll try to defend it.

Do you really want President Palin? No? Then this is OK.

Snowden is a scumbag, therefore this is OK.

You are a racist, therefore this is OK.

You are a teabagger, therefore this is OK.

(eta: joke post)

[nineteen50]

10. The party in charge of the whitehouse only changes when

the sitting party can no longer get the global corporations policies passed. Both parties belong to the same country club and are only fighting over who gets the tips at the bar.

[n2doc]

11. Obama knows best

And anyone who thinks differently is a Hater. Probably a racist too.

We must trust Obama because he is a Good Man in a Difficult Situation. It will all work out for the best, just wait and see.

Also, you don't know anything and this is all lies. Does Rand Paul come and visit you often? Maybe you ARE Rand Paul.



(anyway, not that you will get anyone defending the indefensible, but that's my sarcastic attempt.)

[WillyT]

12. K & R !!!

[JDPriestly]

13. Horrors! And there is no stopping this. It's like a sledgehammer

coming down on us.

[limpyhobbler]

14. I hope the Democrats regain their senses and defeat this nonsense in the 2014 and 2016 primaries.

because it's indefensible.

When people say both parties are the same, here's a clear case of what makes people think that.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

15. cali, you must have the highest number of recs on DU. And for a good reason. Thank you again.

[cali]

19. oh, I doubt that but thank you for the kind words.

[Enthusiast]

48. If you don't, we will have to do our best to correct that.

[frylock]

16. been two hours now. they must be crafting a response.

kicking to check back later.

[Skittles]

17. pro is waiting for the database update

[cali]

18. she doesn't have the necessary links lined up yet.

[sibelian]

21. I finally plonked her.

It was like losing a dear friend.

Actually, it wasn't like losing a dear friend at all.

[cali]

23. ok

that's actually worth using the

[L0oniX]

76. I hope you don't have to make a trip to the health center after that.

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. Waiting...

[cali]

24. you're going to get awfully sick of popcorn

not the most courageous or intellectually honest bunch.

[LondonReign2]

25. Kickity & R

[Laelth]

26. Still waiting. k&r n/t

-Laelth

[kentuck]

27. Fascism Rules!

How else can we call it??

[Enthusiast]

49. I keep looking for an alternate explanation.

I have failed, miserably.

[forestpath]

29. K&RThe silence is deafening.

[bvar22]

30. Ross was right THEN,

and he is STILL right today:

Damn, but the Big Dog was SMOOTH.
It takes a special talent to convince America that competing with 3rd World Slave Labor for OUR jobs would be a GOOD thing for the American Working Class,
but he DID.


If you WORK for a Living,
do NOT trust anyone who claims to believe in "Free Trade",
"Free Markets", or an "Invisible Hand".
None of those things exist, and that person is NOT your friend.

[Hydra]

32. He was smooth indeed

I was still in high school, and no access to underground news. I supported him for the same reasons a lot of people support Obama- wanting an underdog Dem to succeed so we could continue and change the country.

Now he makes me sick to my stomach. He's practically part of the Bush Family, and he got things done for said Bush family that no Repub could have pulled off.

I wonder what it's like to sell your soul like that?

[Enthusiast]

50. You are right about the smooth.

So smooth that he didn't even have to lose his soul. He is being true to his beliefs.

[HiPointDem]

65. i'd forgotten about this piece of video. fuck clinton & the whole dog & pony show that is

national politics.

[Marr]

33. Odd-- I know the apologists are *here* because they'll all over the Snowden threads.

But this doesn't interest them.

How strange.

[woo me with science]

35. Indeed. nt

[cali]

38. and here we are: a bright new morning and they still haven't

shown up. How brave!

[felix_numinous]

34. Thank you

It would to take an international effort to counter these people, and I wish I could imagine how.

[cali]

40. raise the profile of the TPP. Talk about it

publicly and don't stop talking about it. It may not be much, but it's the least we can do.

[Egalitarian Thug]

39. And still waiting...

[KoKo]

41. I knew it was a coup...

when Penny Pritzger passed as SOCommerce through the Senate...97-1. There was no way that Repugs could overwhelmingly approve her...unless they along with Dems wanted the TPP. She will usher it through...muscle it through.. with the language that has been pre-chosen and written in secret.

No matter how many Pritzger articles I posted about how her "pay back" appointment was to make sure the TPP would go through--they got little response from that crowd.

I guess there are some issues they just won't touch because it shows the hypocrisy and reveals the 1% in all its glory.

[cali]

42. and don't forget Michael Froman, our new Trade Representative!

[KoKo]

43. Froman and Pritzger and the TPP (Trans Pacific Partnership) TRADE DEAL! Read & Weep!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023143789

[bvar22]

44. Remember during Campaign 2012 when much of DU was saying...

"Don't worry.
We'll get to see the REAL Obama after the 2012 election when he doesn't have to worry about a 2nd term."

Boy were they right!

[cali]

45. As hard as I try to avoid steering clear

of directly criticizing Obama (I refer to issues I oppose as "administration policies, for example) it becomes more and more difficult.

I try and steer clear of directly criticizing him for a couple of reasons: 1) I want to focus on the issue at hand, be it the TPP or drones, and 2) I don't want to get into a fruitless argument about how I hate the President.

But I would be dishonest if I didn't acknowledge my disappointment in the President.

Maybe it makes me stupid, but I had hoped (though not expected) that the President would feel untethered by not having to deal with reelection matter for the ensuing four years.

oh well, so much for that.

[bvar22]

57. Cali, We have been on differing sides on some issues,

...but I've always considered you an "honest broker of information, ideas, and opinion" on DU.
You have strong, heart felt opinions,
express them clearly, without equivocation,
and are not afraid to stand up for what you believe,
in other words....a Good Democrat!
Despite some of our caustic exchanges, you have always had my respect for that.


I also remember that while some of us were very quick to criticize newly elected President Obama, you were a very strong advocate of "Lets give this guy a CHANCE to do the things he promised, and lets give him some HELP, fer gawds sake!"
Those of us who remember KNOW that you did everything you could to support this man.
You didn't deserve the bilious, hateful attacks leveled against you this week on DU.

---bvar22

[cali]

59. thank you very much

I'm touched by your words. we really have had some acrimonious exchanges- likely mostly my fault.

I do try to be honest, not just with others but with myself.

thanks again, bvar

[KoKo]

55. I know...and it's chilling to see it in action.

It's far beyond what some of us thought given the clues we'd been given.

We were not given much choice...and some had hope. But, the clues were there.

[HiPointDem]

66. +1

[Enthusiast]

51. The campaign to tell us how wonderful it is will begin after it's law. nt

[cali]

53. well, after they ram the tpa through- though that might actually be hard to do

[pampango]

58. I agree. TPA will be almost impossible to get through.

Fast track languished during the late 1990s because of the opposition of House Republicans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track_%28trade%29

House republicans did not trust Clinton to negotiate trade treaties with TPA even though he got NAFTA passed. I don't see House republicans today trusting Obama any more than they did Clinton.

With the tea party leading Boehner around by the nose, approval of TPA is very unlikely, since their base does not like trade treaties to begin with.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Fast track is indefensible in fact and in principle, and this trade "deal" is absolute neoliberal

shit.

There can be little doubt that the administration, up to Obama himself, actually believe that this neoliberal garbage is the best course of action. They are, of course, horrendously wrong in that judgment. Workers suffer, families suffer, collectives suffer, and the capacity to challenge unaccountable corporate rule suffers mightily. It is, in short, a disaster, a catastrophe.

The Left, of course, lacks the resources, electoral force, ore persuasive chops to challenge and stop such deals, so here we are.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

52. You should cross-post in the BOG if you want cheerleading for the TPP and more Obama secrecy.

[cali]

54. somehow I don't think this post would last more than a nanosecond there

[historylovr]

56. K & R.

[Safetykitten]

67. It's good for us! That should be enough. I trust our leaders. *NSA...see this*

[HiPointDem]

68. they're smarter than us! BO is the smartest person who has ever lived!

[Safetykitten]

70. Yes and he is the smartest in the galaxy that has ever lived, and in the future! *NSA...I like you*

[BuelahWitch]

71. Not coming to defend

Just to kick this thread.

[QC]

72. A little music while we wait....

[cali]

73. lol. just what we need.

[HooptieWagon]

77. I'm disappointed.

I was looking forward to the Personality Cult's defense of TPP. Surely it would be an epic fail of deflection, convoluted logic, and name-calling. I guess they're still waiting for talking points from HQ.

[raouldukelives]

78. Every dollar in the markets is a dollar in favor of the TPP.

So, makes spotting the supporters easier. People that are too busy water carrying for the corporatists, too shrouded in celebrity gossip, too lost in personal gratification to even begin to imagine the long term damage they have done and are doing.

[woo me with science]

79. K&R

[Rex]

80. Could be worse, you could be like me

and think Snowden is an idiot AND still hate the fact that our country spies on us without cause. I get it from both sides.