General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat the hell is Snowden talking about when he says the U.S. "unilaterally revoked my passport"?
http://blog.al.com/wire/2013/07/snowden_statement_us_plucked_m.html
Governments issue passports and governments have the right to revoke them. It will always be unilateral. If Russia wants to revoke the passport of one of it's citizens, they don't ask for permission from the United States or any other country. They will just do it. This is the same for every country in the world.
Also, he's NOT stateless. He's still a citizen of the US and can come back any time he wants to.
This guy is so clueless it's just sad at this point. He's like a 16-year-old kid in a 30-year-old man's body.
gcomeau
(5,764 posts)...or in other words, a Libertarian.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)"Take a look on Democratic Underground
They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.
If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.
Lots of traffic on DU.
It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."
http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138
I would call them children, but most children are smarter than Libertarians.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Spot on.
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Yup.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)& obviously, neither is he.
Squinch
(50,993 posts)Grab it with both hands maybe?
malaise
(269,157 posts)aquart
(69,014 posts)So I'm hardly surprised.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)aquart
(69,014 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)He makes declarations.
They aren't true.
It's why even the Russians have told him he needs to STFU.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Imagine all the Alex Jones and other conspiracy shit he has watched over the years. Just like religion over time I think it just really affects the ability to reason.
Shit, he stole some classified docs and didn't even have the education to understand what was in them. So he goes out with Greenwald who is no technical guru himself and says "They can tap your call anytime! They got all your email!"
Thus propagating the bullshit that has been fed into his brain for years out to even more susceptible folks...
It's kind of sad actually
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)A kid who spent too much time on conspiracy sites and thought he would be a hero online by sticking it to the man.
He was given a little bit of access and it went to his head.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)Makes no sense, just throws in 'big' words for effect.
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)Greenwald is concocting this stuff via secure Skype with assistance from Assange.
Difference is Greenwald is under a tree on the beach in Brazil and Assange is in a closet!
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Such posts are a mere distraction. The real issue is the spying.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)former9thward
(32,068 posts)Supporting Nixon's attempt to smear and jail him?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)The main impact of Ellsburgs acts was to inform the public of wrongdoing.
The main impact of Snowden's acts is the mountains of classified information that Chinese and Russian intelligence are now sifting through.
Ellsberg also did not embellish what was going on. He allowed the pentagon papers to speak for themselves.
AlinPA
(15,071 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)to see what he says was his reasoning for taking 7-8 laptops full of classified info and jumping on a flight to Hong Kong.
former9thward
(32,068 posts)More lies from the Smear Machine. Ellsberg did take classified material. You do 't get to judge which is good classified material and what is bad classified material to release based on who is in the White House at the time. Snowden has not embellished anything -- although I did not know that is now a crime by The Authority worshipers. The people telling lies about him are the only ones who have embellished anything here.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)And excuse me, four laptops full of classified info.
Your contention is that during his time in China and now Russia, the intelligence agencies of those two countries either never asked to see what was on those laptops, or if they did, Snowden said "No", and they replied, "oh, ok."
Please try and sell crazy nonsensical crap elsewhere. I'm not buying. Oh yes, the GRU/SVR/FSB and Chinese Intelligence would totally allow Snowden to hang out and wouldn't ask (read: demand) to "see" the laptops for a few hours.
frylock
(34,825 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)that would really help to drive home your "point."
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)But you already knew that.
He is a traitor pure and simple.
former9thward
(32,068 posts)stevenleser
(32,886 posts)The think that is really is your reading comprehension
former9thward
(32,068 posts)I read posters saying Snowden was an idiot who just stole some "Power point slides" and lied about everything else. You are saying he is a dastardly traitor. You need to get one message. I'm sure Cheney will be out with one soon.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)1. He is an idiot
2. His powerpoint slides are not what they are being made out to be. That will come out.
3. He is a traitor.
Progressive dog
(6,917 posts)former9thward
(32,068 posts)I guess you had one of your "sources" in the room. Just keep making shit up. I can't wait to see what the new slander will be tomorrow. Say Hi to Dick Nixon -- excuse me -- Dick Cheney when you see him.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)for a change.
frylock
(34,825 posts)you know this, right?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)Classified information and get on a jet and go to the Chinese or Soviets whether that information was electronic, on paper, on reel to reel or whatever other media.
frylock
(34,825 posts)take up your beef with Ellsberg.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)An Appeal to Authority is a fallacy with the following form:
Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S.
Person A makes claim C about subject S.
Therefore, C is true.
This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious.
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Ellsberg did the right thing once regarding the pentagon papers.
That does not make him an authority on the difference between a hero and a traitor. He also thought Manning was great and Manning released hundreds of thousands of documents that detailed no wrongdoing.
That makes Ellsberg's judgment wrong twice.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)And that is just one reason why Snowden is no Ellsberg. To those that keep saying he's not the story don;t really seem to understand that SNOWDEN is the one making himself the story.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)inflation?
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)"Who cares what Snowden's travel status is? Or his naivety regarding passports? Such posts are a mere distraction. The real issue is the spying."
...that these "posts are a mere distraction":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023148507
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023148368
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)bornskeptic
(1,330 posts)If someone didn't care about Snowden's travel status, I'm sure they wouldn't be reading this.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)His main agenda seems to be to make the president look bad. Just like the Paulbot trolls that are here on DU, it's always trash talking about the president and trying to keep things people here divided.
I just hope that Snowden gets wise pretty soon and figures out he is being used, then decides to start pointing fingers at those who have been in the background pushing him on. Somebody is benefiting from all this, but it's not going to be Snowden!
naaman fletcher
(7,362 posts)What would you prefer?
A guy with an agenda leak the truth, or the truth stay secret until the mythical perfect leaker comes along?
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)It's like, who cares if he has his head on sideways about the facts of what governments can and can not do and, based on past pronouncements and candidate support, has an obvious political axe to grind with Obama, the main thing that he's asking us to believe is obviously 100 percent true so let's only talk about that.
No.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)That if what he has to say is really "breaking news", he shouldn't have gone to China because they are so great when it comes to "human rights"! I would prefer to see some information that is actually new, not something we all know has been going on for decades. I would prefer that if there is a problem with the NSA's programs that it be investigated and then congress should fix the laws. I would prefer that if someone is really serious about being a "patriot" they stay in the country and try and make the changes need by going to the proper channels. Hell if he has some "really" important information he could have gone to his buddy Rand Paul and had him make it public.
I would prefer a much more reliable "leaker" than one who seems to have an agenda to simply make the president look bad. The more I hear from Mr. Snowden the less I believe he is sincere, but instead is working with others for what I see as "POLITICAL" reasons.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)about the US. I don't think they trust him, and see him as a liability. If he can do this sort of thing to his home country, then the fear is that he probably wouldn't hesitate to do it to a host country. He's a man without a country right now, and it's his own fault for allowing himself to be manipulated by Greenwald, and then by Assange.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)I think that his information has not been as ground breaking as he and Greenwald say it is. If it were I would think Russia or China would have jumped onboard and gave him a place to stay. I also believe his is being manipulated and for one reason or another doesn't care, or doesn't see just how deep he is getting himself in more trouble. I don't believe those doing the manipulation will be there to catch him when he falls. The only thing I hope is that Mr. Snowden decides he is not going down alone, and takes those behind him along for the ride.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I don't think I could fall for their crap and wonder about those who do.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)The Paul followers are pretty loyal, and seem to be gullible enough to buy into all the BS. I have seen the same things with religious groups who seem to have all the answers and are able to bring people into their belief system, and brainwash them to accept whatever it is the leadership says. All you have to do is be able to lie good enough to convince someone who is gullible that they need to accept that the only way to change things is to follow them, no matter what. I mean look at the tea party crowd. They have been so brainwashed that they defend the big corporations, vote for people who will take their rights away from them, take their SS, medicare, etc. away from them, and they can't even see what is going on, until its to late, then instead of opening their eyes to the truth, they simply listen to the BS that it's all Obama's fault and they actually believe it. I think Mr. Snowden is in the same boat.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)looked that up before he ran. Stupid shit.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)do it for Obama!
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)also it's just as crazy to imagine that a number of people piling on in this thread are avid Obama defenders.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)Here's a DUzy: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023148368
Skittles
(153,182 posts)great white snark
(2,646 posts)More oversight to or changing for the better of the Patriot Act should be welcome by everyone here.
Skittles
(153,182 posts)and start worrying about America
great white snark
(2,646 posts)Personally I don't worry about Obama I support him. I also support this country that I love.
Skittles
(153,182 posts)zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)as well. Can dish it out but can't take it huh. And as to the love of my country its 100% although the USA has many faults. I can agree to disagree which is the 1st amendment. And it does seems like the continued pounding of the President of the United States.
And of course Snowden is being talked about pro and con.
Skittles
(153,182 posts)lol lol lol lol
Skittles
(153,182 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)That was a pounding. Nothing remotely like that is taking place in the press against Obama.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)They have no shame.
Skittles
(153,182 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,237 posts)That's a good thing, but what took so damned long? They just reauthorized this crap in 2012. Why the sudden reflection?
Skittles
(153,182 posts)nineteen50
(1,187 posts)has been murdered by blind allegence and his inebriated accomplice political debris.
BumRushDaShow
(129,374 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)The Big Bad US and all that - "me against the machine".
He's got the supporting crowd in a collective fear that he'll be executed for his "bravery".
The truth is, he ain't worth a drone or a jet scramble, as the President has indicated. He just needs to do the time for peddling information to China and Russia.
But that's being LARGELY ignored by his supporters. When it turns to that, it's suddenly "Not about the messenger!!!" time.
He's actually doing more damage to his putative cause by continuing to make statements.
Cha
(297,528 posts)to revoke his damn passport? Iceland? Russia? Hong Kong? Greenwald?
And,
"Convicted"? No, he hasn't been.. he ran off to Hong Kong like a sneak in the night and then leaked .. and he refuses to face the music, so no.. he hasn't been convicted of anything, yet.
struggle4progress
(118,330 posts)§ 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports.
... (b) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:
(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony ... <or>
(5) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional request for extradition which has been presented to the government of a foreign country ...
§ 51.62 Revocation or limitation of passports.
(a) The Department may revoke or limit a passport when
(1) The bearer of the passport may be denied a passport under 22 CFR 51.60 ...
§ 51.65 Notification of denial or revocation of passport.
(a) The Department will notify in writing any person .. whose passport has been revoked ...
§ 51.66 Surrender of passport.
The bearer of a passport that is revoked must surrender it .. upon demand ...
http://cfr.regstoday.com/22cfr51.aspx#22_CFR_51pSUBPART_E
flamingdem
(39,319 posts)Even China!!
1-Old-Man
(2,667 posts)This is just makeup on a fucking pig.
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)If he bothers to show up in the US, I think he'll be taking advantage of that one.
nineteen50
(1,187 posts)nation in history, You try it and see if they can make you look like a child.
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)I don't think Mr. Snowden wrote that statement and I think it was Assange or someone from wilileaks, followed by Mr. Greenwald on fake news. It appears that Mr. Snowden is being manipulated and the initial party who got him to steal the information is directly from this country.
And I think that Ecuador is getting tired of Assange.
frylock
(34,825 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Mr.Bill
(24,317 posts)Just like I have the right to seek a billion dollars in income this year. Probably neither on of will get what we are seeking, but we still have the right to seek it.
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)FreeBC
(403 posts)Far too many people here seem more than happy to make the revelation of widespread illegal NSA wiretapping about tearing down the guy that made it news.
It really makes you wonder how many posters here are real and how many are accounts used by government operatives to steer discussion and opinion.
And if you take offense to my insinuations that those of you who continue to make this all about Snowden may be fake accounts with another agenda, I take offense to the idea that some of you are trying to distract from the real issue and hop on board the government/media messaging bandwagon.
Seriously people, if I wanted to hear what George Stephanopoulos' or David Gregory's "insider sources" want the NSA spying narrative to be, I could tune in and watch them.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Peddling information to China and Russia speaks for itself about someone who claims to be hacking and stealing data to protect freedom and expose tyranny.
One simply has to point out what he's said and done. That's not "character assassination", that's OBSERVATION.
Moosepoop
(1,922 posts)It's committing suicide.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Burn.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The one to fix it. Running and whining is not working very well for him.
FreeBC
(403 posts)Will the American people acquiesce to becoming a police state with secret laws and unimpeded recording of our private conversations because they barely understand technology and just kind of assume it's inevitable?
Quick! Look over there! let's talk about the guy that leaked the story instead! He's bad so I guess that makes it ok.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)FreeBC
(403 posts)Now can we talk about the much, much more serious crimes of the NSA?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)You don't make someone innocent by saying someone else did another.
BAPhill
(184 posts)is that he likes to use big words...even if doesn't know what they mean.
appleannie1
(5,068 posts)"Their defecation to their uniforms is outstanding" when bragging about them to a fellow law enforcement chief. He thinks using big words proves how intelligent he is when in fact he is one dumb ass.
randome
(34,845 posts)(Jeeze, 84 posts and no 'whiner' pics yet? Alas, DU...)
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uppityperson
(115,678 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)And, as you said yourself, it's easy to hide behind a computer screen, isn't it?