Hints Surface That NSA Building Massive, Pervasive Surveillance Capability - McClatchey/MiamiHearld

[WillyT]

Hints surface that NSA building massive, pervasive surveillance capability
BY GREG GORDON - MCCLATCHY WASHINGTON BUREAU
Posted on Tuesday, 07.02.13

<snip>

WASHINGTON -- Despite U.S. intelligence officials’ repeated denials that the National Security Agency is collecting the content of domestic emails and phone calls, evidence is mounting that the agency’s vast surveillance network can and may already be preserving billions of those communications in powerful digital databases.

A McClatchy review of public records, statements by Obama administration officials and interviews with cyber and telecom security experts lends credence to assertions that the capability for such surveillance exists.

– FBI Director Robert Mueller told a Senate committee on March 30, 2011, that “technological improvements” now enable the bureau “to pull together past emails and future ones as they come in so that it does not require an individualized search.”

– The administration is building a facility in a valley south of Salt Lake City that will have the capacity to store massive amounts of records – a facility that former agency whistleblowers say has no logical purpose if it’s not going to be a vault holding years of phone and Internet data.

– Security experts, including a former AT&T engineer, say that the NSA has tapped into fiber-optic cables carrying phone and Internet data in cities across the country.

Glenn Greenwald, a columnist for the British newspaper The Guardian who reported on the disclosures of NSA leaker Edward Snowden, said in a speech over the weekend that an upcoming story will describe a classified document that “talks about how a brand new technology enables the National Security Agency to redirect into its own repositories 1 billion cellphone calls every single day.”

“What we are really talking about here is a globalized system that prevents any form of electronic communication from taking place without it being stored and monitored by the National Security Agency,” Greenwald said in a webcast to the Socialism Conference in Chicago. “It means they’re storing every call and have the capability to listen to them at any time.”

<snip>

More: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/07/02/3482105/hints-surface-that-nsa-building.html

[MotherPetrie]

1. Kick.

[Coyotl]

4. Here we go again, the pretense that this is just now being built is just a pile of crap

And that pretense serves the interests of those wanting to hang Bush's crimes on Obama.

[WillyT]

6. Well... If That's True... Obama Could Dismantle It... Those Agencies Are Under The Executive Branch

No ???

What Bush created... Obama could extinguish...

Question is... Why won't he?

[HardTimes99]

25. Russell Tice (one of the NSA whistleblowers) says the NSA was wiretapping Obama

himself as early as 2004. Somehow, they got the goods on him, Lord knows how or what. Ayers? Wright? The suveillance network is not for our protection. It is to silence and intimidate dissent and manufacture consent (to borrow a line from Chomsky).

[truedelphi]

43. Thank you! n/t

[KittyWampus]

86. they got the "goods" on Obama but didn't use it during the election? But it gives you clearance to

throw out the rightwing smear attempts of Ayers * Wright.

[HardTimes99]

87. Check your map! - nt

[KittyWampus]

88. What does a map have to do with someone using a RIGHTWING SMEAR? Seems you've got nothing to

contribute.

[HardTimes99]

89. A map, a map, my kingdom for a

map!

[N.I.B.]

85. "Why won't he?"

[reusrename]

8. Why does everything in your universe revolve around Obama.

This is not all his doing, nor can he snap his fingers and make this go away.

I'll tell you what though, he can definitely stop being all preachy about "rule of law" while he kidnaps a foreign president. That's just plain dishonesty. There is no other way to see it.

[TheMadMonk]

14. Because Bush was a KNOWN CRIMINAL. Obama...

...on the other hand campaigned on a platform of (amongst other things) HONESTY AND TRANSPARENCY.

However the very moment he took office, Obama embraced Bush's criminal acts and lost no time at all EXPANDING them.

No he couldn't just snap his fingers and make it go away.

But he could have made some sort of attempt to actually carry out his campaign promises.

He didn't. he reneged.

He threw progressives a bone in the form of not standing against the repeal of DOMA and DADT, but at the same time he also failed to stand in the way of the repeal of the VRA.

RESULT = THE WORST OF BOTH WORLDS.

PROGRESSIVES AND CONSERVATIVES were given fresh reasons to stay at each others throats and not make common cause against their common foe the 1%.

[L0oniX]

17. Good cop bad cop show. n/t

[sibelian]

19. Bang on.

wish I could rec.

[Enthusiast]

65. Double bang on!

[NYC_SKP]

60. Oh bullshit. Do you even know how government works?

Tell me, genius, how under US law the president can stand in the way of repeal of the VRA.

I'll wait.

[TheMadMonk]

74. You're right Pres. can't modify a SC decision.

On the other hand he could have expressed some opinion on the matter, (even obliquely) as he did with DOMA & DADT in advance of the SC's decisions.

FFS, it was the perfect opportunity to goad the idiots on the right to come right out and say "because he's black", or even perhaps use the "N" word in a public forum.

I do note with interest that there are a number of threads on DOMA & DADT matters popping up, mostly good news stories, but I'm seeing zip on the VRA, when in reality it is a far more immediate problem than the NSA BS.

Short of their moving into some sort of endgame scenario, the NSA crap really doesn't affect the little people the way electoral shenanigans can and do.

Is this all down to Obama? Of course not, but if he won't take the lead, others have no incentive to follow.

[MotherPetrie]

12. Obama has been president for 4-1/2 years and HE owns it now.

[RufusTFirefly]

13. Look out! Here come the Distractivists!

Seems like you used No. 1 and No. 9. Nice job! Come on down and collect your bright and shiny Distractivist medal!!

The Official Distractivist Talking Points*

1. This is nothing new
2. I have nothing to hide
3. What are you, a freeper?
4. But Obama is better than Christie/Romney/Bush/Hitler
5. Greenwald/Flaherty/Gillum/Apuzzo/Braun is a hack
6. We have red light cameras, so this is no big deal
7. Corporations have my data anyway
8. At least Obama is trying
9. This is just the media trying to take Obama down
10. It's a misunderstanding/you are confused
11. You're a racist
12. Nobody cares about this anyway / "unfounded fears"
13. I don't like Snowden, therefore we must disregard all of this
14. Other countries do it

* A tip of the hat to PSPS, from whom I got the original list.

[L0oniX]

16. ^^^^this^^^^

Damned bunny stompers!

[Enthusiast]

66. I hate a damned bunny stomper.

[Coyotl]

33. Get real. Who was out ahead of Greenwald and Snowden? Read DU to find out!

Are ALL COMMUNICATIONS routed overseas to circumvent US law and the Constitution?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2245762

DIA SPYING: NGIA collecting data, 133 U.S. cities, ID everyone, nationality, political affiliations
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x983282

[JDPriestly]

39. Thanks. Coyotl.

[backscatter712]

34. Have you played Snowden-Bashing Bingo yet?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023154527

[RufusTFirefly]

36. Wonderful! I think I'll put up a Big Tent and invite my neighbors over for a game on the 4th

Gotta go and start making the cole slaw and the three-bean salad before it gets too late!

[truedelphi]

44. Hmm, those all seem so familiar for some reason... n/t

[rhett o rick]

49. Thank you for the list. nm

[rhett o rick]

51. Not sure this is included: "Everything Snowden presents is a lie. The slide he presented proves

beyond a shadow of a doubt that every thing is legal."

Also another one: "Because the law requires the NSA to get permission to spy, then they obviously do."

And: "I havent seen any proof, therefore none exists."

[Mojorabbit]

42. IMO when he did not relieve Clapper from his position for lying, he now owns it. nt

[mick063]

45. Obama took the baton and ran with it.

You admitted that it was a "crime" when referencing Bush. You wrote it for all to see.

Are we to believe it is no longer a crime under Obama?

If a problem falls into your lap, you come clean with it. You fix it and you are transparent about it. From the beginning.

If you are ideologically opposed to it, you don't wait until public pressure corners you into addressing it, following a leak.

No question about it. Our President is fully on board with "Bush's crime."

The great facilitator of corporate coup has dropped all pretense.

I'm not religious, but if I had to pick the Evangelanut's hypothetical evil leader bearing the "mark of the beast", our beloved "progressive" President certainly fits the description.

[Coyotl]

46. Don't you remember the Retroactive Immunity in the FISA renewal? It even gave Bush immunity

because it foreclosed discovery.

Deja DU: babylonsister Oct-22-07
Glenn Greenwald: Robert Kennedy speaks out against Retroactive Immunity

Robert Kennedy speaks out against Retroactive Immunity

The very idea of "retroactive immunity" for lawbreaking corporations is so radical, so repugnant to the most basic principles of the "rule of law," that only one prior attempt can be found in recent history (at least from my research): the efforts by some in Congress in 1965 to enact a law retroactively legalizing the mergers by six large banks ... illegal under our nation's antitrust laws.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/10/21/kennedy_amnesty/index.html

++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Deja DU: L. Coyote Feb-15-08
I FIRMLY oppose the "Good Samaritan Law" and call "BULLSHIT" on the Republican FISA LIES!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2870336&mesg_id=2870336

.... I did not hear mention from the Republican leadership of how the splitters in the telecom facilities captures
ALL FIBER OPTIC communications and diverts them overseas where US law and the US Constitution to spy on everyone and everything!

I have an informant. I am protecting the identity of my informant due to the role of this person in government.
Two years ago PLUS I was told that ALL COMMUNICATION were being routed outside US jurisdiction.

Where is the debate on this fact? ALL COMMUNICATION were being routed outside US jurisdiction.

Where is the inquiry into whether this is still happening? ALL COMMUNICATION routed outside US jurisdiction. ....

NOTE: VIDEO: AT&T Whistleblower Speaks Out Against Retroactive Immunity
Video posted by: SenatorDodd - http://www.youtube.com/user/SenatorDodd HAS BEEN REMOVED!!

[rhett o rick]

50. So your point is that because this is old news we should accept it.

If Pres Obama doesnt want to be held accountable for Bush's programs, then he should change them. But this is obviously too big for Pres Obama. I think Clapper tells the President how things are going to be.

[Coyotl]

53. No, not my point at all. The change took place BEFORE Obama, with retroactive immunity and all

the amendments to the FISA law. What Bush did was illegal. What is happening now is under the umbrella of the law. Plus, the laws of the USA are not applicable globally, so you just route it off-shore and you can spy legally! The telecoms can do that themselves!

MY REAL POINT: The purpose of the pretense that this is something new is a political ploy directed against Obama by the right-wing liars who defended Bush when it was illegal!

Deja DU: I FIRMLY oppose the "Good Samaritan Law" and call "BULLSHIT" on the Republican FISA LIES!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2870336

[rhett o rick]

54. " What is happening now is under the umbrella of the law." Does "under the umbrella

mean per the letter of the FISA law? Because I would have to disagree with that. Plez dont make me dig out the FISA Law again.

[Coyotl]

59. Can you dig out the secret Patriot Act law? Even Senators cannot do that. Therein is the problem.

Even the laws are secret, not to mention the legal determinations that determine what is being done in the name of those secret laws.

[Th1onein]

70. Let me get this straight, then....

You are saying that it's not new because Bush did it. And, even though Obama told us that he was not going to do it, and went ahead and did it anyway, it was legal anyhow. And we are just now PRETENDING to be upset that Obama not only continued to spy on us, and even expanded the program, because we are all rightwingers who want to bring down Obama?

Good grief.

[sabrina 1]

56. Where is this pretense you are speaking of? We knew about this during the Bush years and

elected Democrats to STOP it! Five years later and we find out that not only has nothing been done to stop it, it is growing bigger and bigger.

So what do you want people who vehemently opposed this spying during the Bush era to do now that we find our efforts to stop it have failed? Just shut up about it? And wait until the next Republican administration comes along, because we shouldn't say anything about a Dem Administration? That is ridiculous to put party before country is never an option and to blame the people for what their party is doing, is also ridiculous.

We trusted our party to stop Bush's policies, we failed, not what? Keep voting the same way and getting the same results? That's the solution being offered? And stfu about everything? Sorry, this failed method is no longer an option obviously.

[Coyotl]

58. In the headline in the Miami Hearld = "hints surface"

This is old news, not "hints" appearing today! This news is being spun without its historical context because there is a political agenda driving it.

[Th1onein]

71. Nobody here is pretending anything.

And it doesn't serve our interests to hang Bush's crimes on Obama. Can you get it through your head that we don't want to be spied on and we trusted Obama NOT to spy on us, because he TOLD us he wouldn't? Instead, he expanded the program!

[Coyotl]

75. Please inform everyone here how "he expanded the program". We want to know what you think you know.

What is "the program" you refer to. Is it something Congress has passed? Presidents don't make laws or create programs by themselves. Please, give us the details.

I'm not saying anyone here is pretending, I'm saying the pretense is in the article title in the Miami Herald and in the article's writing. That does not mean no one here has pretenses, of course. I'm just not pointing to anyone here in the post you reply to.

[Th1onein]

77. Did you READ the OP?

Did. You. Read. It?

[Coyotl]

78. No, I have never read an OP before

Why bother

[Th1onein]

80. Yeah, I figured you wouldn't answer the question.

You're posting a comment on an OP that has as it's topic the expanding surveillance program, and you ask WHERE, WHERE, WHERE does it say that it's expanded?

When you're confronted, you reply with an ad hominem attack.

Figures.

[Coyotl]

81. Ask me a real question and you can expect a real answer.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. Do people realize what a catastrophe this is?

Amazing.

[truedelphi]

3. In one word: No! n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Nope, turn key tyranny

It must be fun

[markpkessinger]

11. Evidently not, sad to say n/t

[sibelian]

18. It's too frightening, Manny. They can't process it.

They can't allow themselves to believe it. Not after Bush... They have to hold onto the previous myth, the Big Savior thing.

[rhett o rick]

48. Fighting tyranny is hard, denying tyranny is easy. nm

[Marrah_G]

68. No, they don't

They are so busy either hating Obama or adoring him that they completely miss the huge problem that is the NSA and the corporation around and included within it.

[neverforget]

5. It's for our own good and

I have nothing to hide.

[pscot]

23. If you have nothing to hide

why do feel compelled to proclaim you have nothing to hide?


Very Interesting

[Safetykitten]

9. Well, it's a job creator.

[KoKo]

20. Well...maybe 15 people monitoring some large Data Base in a large Military facility

...sort of like the CLOUD places. There's one in SC ...it's Huge.. Employment is maybe 150 people and most of them man the wired guard that surrounds the place.

Those CLOUDS are not only storing your "Personal/Business Stuff...but, probably everything else that's out there to be mopped up.

Yep some hyperbole there...but, the SC GOOGLE Place is Real! I think that Amazon and others have places all over the USA for "The Cloud"... All so innocent.

[Coyotl]

61. One million Top Secret security clearances at last count

"maybe 15 people"

Imagine how many techies just to build the global infrastructure to scoop everything.

[burnodo]

10. But...but...but...

SNOWDENWALDPAULKOCH!

[L0oniX]

15. They are making sure we will not be able to take back our government from the facists.

Of course they will throw us a few terrorists at us to try to fool the masses about the real purpose of the NSA.

[DRoseDARs]

24. So we have the windows open but screened, and there are these little tiny flies that still get in...

I was smacking my screen for a good 10-15 seconds before I realized that was a gif in your signature. Imma smack you instead...

[HardTimes99]

26. LOL. Wife laughing too! Thanks for the comic relief :) - nt

[L0oniX]

27. Victim number #297

[DRoseDARs]

31. Adjusting my signature accordingly. :)

[Coyotl]

41. Either that or the Miami Herald want to take the Presidency back for the Republicans

Which is well within the bounds of reason.

[ReRe]

21. The news finally comes to Miami...

K&R

... Where has the Miami Herald been in the last 3-4 weeks or years? Chasing snakes in the Everglades? Oh well, maybe some of our DU obstructionists will break down and actually read it and learn something for a change. Thanks, WillyT.

[DRoseDARs]

22. Snowden picks his boogers, then GiGi eats them. THAT'S the real story!

It's a coded message to their Russo-Sino masters.

[L0oniX]

29. He's a damned bunny stomper!

[dkf]

28. Just disgusting.

[DJ13]

30. Rockwell

[DeSwiss]

32. Hints?

- Oh, right. This is for those who are just now waking up. Please continue.....

K&R
[center][/center]

Evey:''You're wrong! It's just life, that's all! It's just how life is. It's what we've got to put up with. It's all we've got. What gives you the right to decide it's not good enough?''

V:''You're in a prison, Evey. You were born in a prison. You've been in a prison so long, you no longer believe there's a world outside. That's because you're afraid, Evey. You're afraid because you can feel freedom closing in upon you. You're afraid because freedom is terrifying. Don't back away from it, Evey. Part of you understands the truth even as part pretends not to. You were in a cell, Evey. They offered you a choice between the death of your principles and the death of your body. You said you'd rather die. You faced the fear of your own death and you were calm and still.

''The door of the cage is open, Evey. All that you feel is the wind from outside.''

~ Alan Moore, V for Vendetta

[Pretzel_Warrior]

35. Fuck the PO-lice

[ThePhilosopher04]

37. The Lambs Book of Life ...

is essentially what this is becoming.

[blkmusclmachine]

38. We can hear you now.

[Kurovski]

40. Sure!

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2006/12/can_you_hear_me/




Can You Hear Me Now?

Dec 5, 2006 3:38pm

"Cell phone users, beware. The FBI can listen to everything you say, even when the cell phone is turned off..."

[Coyotl]

47. AT&T Leaker: Give Snowden Retroactive Immunity

Not saying I agree with every word, but I love the irony of the idea.
If CEOs got immunity for illegally spying, why not do the same for someone who reveals the details of the spying?

[cali]

52. nothing to see here

[Hubert Flottz]

55. See a bug outside buzzing around your keyhole?

Don't swat it, because it might end up with you being arrested for destruction of top secret government property, if that bug turns out to be an NSA snooper drone. They know the number of hairs on your head and they know the location of every sparrow and arrow that falls.

And the sign at the new construction site will read, "There is $???????????????????????????? of YOUR tax dollars at work"...Will they cut Medicare to pay for that new complex? Will the Chinese investors lend the money to build something to spy on them with?

[nashville_brook]

57. k and r

[WinkyDink]

62. I am reminded that Obama has called for Internet users, for their "convenience," to have but ONE PW.

ONE Password.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2011/04/obama-online-security/

The plan envisions replacing today’s reality of generally having to remember passwords for dozens of sites where consumers have already lodged their sensitive data, such as credit card numbers....

The government is allotting up to five years for the “standardization of policy and technology” to come together. Implementation of the plan, the government said, “will not occur overnight.”

[winter is coming]

63. Anyone who needs the convenience of only one password already has that option. n/t

[gtar100]

64. Not just tapping into fiber optics... it's deeper than that.

Requirements are being made for logins to equipment that are not logged and can only be used by "law enforcement". As one who works peripherally on computer security issues, I could not understand this step backwards from our push for accountability on the systems we manage. They are trying to bake it into the devices. No need for surreptitious wire tapping and pesky, low-on-the-totem-pole employees such as myself are out of the picture. All these leaks about the NSA have made it clear why this is being done. Frankly, based on my education in computer security, I can only see this coming back to bite these corporations in their own ass. What could possibly go wrong with having an untraceable backdoor into their revenue-generating equipment. Very shortsighted.

[KoKo]

69. Indeed...Short Sighted...but when Government is Downsizing...it might be

Last edited Thu Jul 4, 2013, 07:03 PM - Edit history (2)

considered "Cost Effective." It's 'Bottom Line' National Security.... Contract it Out! (even when it turns out to not be Cost Effective)

[woo me with science]

67. K &R

[silvershadow]

72. They have probably only been waiting for technology to allow it. nt

[cantbeserious]

73. Thank You For Sharing - Not Surprised That Snowden's Revelations Were The Tip Of The Iceberg

eom

[southernyankeebelle]

76. Many years ago there was a book written about NSA called The Puzzle Palace. I can't

remember who wrote it. It was a very interesting read. It talked about how massive the building was. There are many floors below the building you see. I thought it would be an interesting read because I lived on Ft Meade and down the road from there. I wanted to know something about it. I don't know if you can get it again but it was interesting and nothing they are doing now surprises me.

[NoodleyAppendage]

79. Thank you Orwell for the warning. You were so prescient.

I'm firmly convinced that without a Constitutional privacy Amendment that we are heading quickly towards a police/authoritarian state.

[Apophis]

82. Why don't they just put a screen in my house where they can watch all of my actions?

Good god.

[BOG PERSON]

83. ...

[Liberal_in_LA]

84. protests there today

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/NSA-data-center-target-of-4th-Amendment-rally-4647134.php