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sibelian

(7,804 posts)
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:14 PM Jul 2013

The White House has nothing to lose from outright denial of influence in the Morales incident if


they are not responsible.

Nothing at all.

If they have noresponsibility for the incident, they also have absolutely nothing to gain from declining to comment, which leaves the question of their influence in uncertainty.

If the Europeans acted on their own initiative, a simple phone call from the White House to the various state departments responsible for the Morales incident would clarify what the position of these state departments is, which the White House, on being questioned, could simply repeat.

There is nothing in it for the White House in allowing easily dispelled rumours to circulate regarding their influence on the incident if they didn't have any.
33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The White House has nothing to lose from outright denial of influence in the Morales incident if (Original Post) sibelian Jul 2013 OP
This is the most obvious point. Couple it with the players in Europe refusing to confirm or deny morningfog Jul 2013 #1
Isn't it all just too ridiculous? sibelian Jul 2013 #15
I noticed that Canada and Mexico have been equally as silent in this issue. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #2
Gosh. Is Snowden ratting on them, too? nt sibelian Jul 2013 #12
Mexico has commented: morningfog Jul 2013 #17
Right, but they did not deny responsibility. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #21
The US hasn't called it discriminatory or disgraeful. morningfog Jul 2013 #22
.. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #25
Nor would anyone expect them to. sibelian Jul 2013 #23
.. Buzz Clik Jul 2013 #26
That's a smilie. sibelian Jul 2013 #29
If they denied it, people would call them liars anyways Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #3
Amen. treestar Jul 2013 #6
Echo chamber much? ljm2002 Jul 2013 #10
Taking rationalization to a new level of absurdity. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #9
+1000 CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #14
It's funny Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #18
they cant afford another blatant PR disaster that softens their ramparts. galileoreloaded Jul 2013 #4
Right now the White House is a bit busy. I'm sure they'll get right on it on Monday. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #5
I wonder if some European heads of state or being a teeny bit recalcitrant. sibelian Jul 2013 #19
How can they deny influence when they've warned all countries to do what the US wants? dkf Jul 2013 #7
I'd say you know very little about international relations. There's incompetence and face saving flamingdem Jul 2013 #8
"I don't see any convincing reporting"... ljm2002 Jul 2013 #11
It's one-dimensional chess. OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #13
Happy Independence Day! sibelian Jul 2013 #16
Heh! Scurrilous Jul 2013 #32
I think what could have happened warrior1 Jul 2013 #20
Then why isn't the White House saying: sibelian Jul 2013 #24
maybe they were not in the loop warrior1 Jul 2013 #27
then why aren't they saying: sibelian Jul 2013 #28
Bolivia lands in Austria, complaining of airspace issues in Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain struggle4progress Jul 2013 #30
"adding an extra act seems unlikely to clarify matters." sibelian Jul 2013 #31
Extract a definitive account from what Austria, Bolivia, Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain say; struggle4progress Jul 2013 #33
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
1. This is the most obvious point. Couple it with the players in Europe refusing to confirm or deny
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:16 PM
Jul 2013

US involvement and the US admission that they have been in contact with the ally countries, it is very telling.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
15. Isn't it all just too ridiculous?
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jul 2013

I have no idea what they think they're doing. Unless they like the idea of US influence being gossiped about, which is just weird.
 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
17. Mexico has commented:
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:25 PM
Jul 2013

"Much more blunt was the statement from Mexico's Congress condemning what it called the "disgraceful and discriminatory" treatment Mr Morales had received in Europe."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/bolivia/10158924/Latin-American-countries-call-summit-over-diversion-of-Evo-Moraless-plane.html

"Mexico reaffirms its conviction that must be respected international law principles and good diplomatic practice among States, as immunity from jurisdiction enjoyed by a Head of State ".

http://www.informador.com.mx/mexico/2013/469384/6/mexico-lamenta-restriccion-contra-evo-morales-en-europa.htm

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
22. The US hasn't called it discriminatory or disgraeful.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:35 PM
Jul 2013

I take Mexico's offense to be a denial of responsibility.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
3. If they denied it, people would call them liars anyways
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jul 2013
"allowing easily dispelled rumours"

These kinds of rumors are never dispelled. It's utterly pointless for the State Department to comment on the faux incident that went down in Austria.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
10. Echo chamber much?
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:50 PM
Jul 2013

You say, "There are posters who have already decided,"...

in response to a post that says

"It's utterly pointless for the State Department to comment on the faux incident that went down in Austria. "

It would be hilarious if it weren't so deeply pathetic.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
14. +1000
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:18 PM
Jul 2013

When you have people here saying they don't trust anything the government says or does, they won't hear anything that points to non-government culpability.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
18. It's funny
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:28 PM
Jul 2013

The same people demanding an explicit denial are the same people who would be the first to call the US government liars.

 

galileoreloaded

(2,571 posts)
4. they cant afford another blatant PR disaster that softens their ramparts.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:18 PM
Jul 2013

and it seems that they can't tell who to trust. so they will most likely start going hard.

Good 'ol Niccolo:

"Its better to be feared than loved if you can't be both."

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
19. I wonder if some European heads of state or being a teeny bit recalcitrant.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:29 PM
Jul 2013

I'd have expected a unified position out of them by now if they were all still pals.
 

dkf

(37,305 posts)
7. How can they deny influence when they've warned all countries to do what the US wants?
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:23 PM
Jul 2013

This is the US lying to us yet again.

flamingdem

(39,303 posts)
8. I'd say you know very little about international relations. There's incompetence and face saving
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:27 PM
Jul 2013

that the USA won't get into.

I don't see any convincing reporting that any country truly denied Morales passage.

So there was a lot of miscommunication, Bolivia built their own paranoid narrative and / or cover stories

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
11. "I don't see any convincing reporting"...
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 01:55 PM
Jul 2013

"that any country truly denied Morales passage."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/07/03/evo-morales-controversial-flight-over-europe-minute-by-heavily-disputed-minute/

“There was contradictory information about the identity of the passengers aboard one or two aircraft, because there was also a doubt about the number of planes that wanted to fly over France,” French President Francois Hollande said in Germany, apparently allowing the possibility that the flight had been denied permission. “As soon as I knew that it was the plane of Bolivia’s president, I immediately gave my authorization for the overflight.”


(emphasis mine)

Note the Washington Post admits Hollande is "allowing the possibility that the flight had been denied permission". However, I would say he is outright admitting it, given that in his very next statement he says that he, personally, authorized the overflight. If he had to authorize it, that means it was not authorized to begin with. We know that the flight of any head of state will have filed a flight plan. This one included flying over France. France's President became personally involved in the flight of this one airplane. Are you seriously trying to argue that President Hollande is lying here? Or that his statements do not verify that overflight was denied for some period of time?

OilemFirchen

(7,143 posts)
13. It's one-dimensional chess.
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:15 PM
Jul 2013

By saying nothing whatsoever, they keep the Perpetually Indignant on both the right and left in a self-imposed tizzy, locked in their Righteousness Enclaves feeding each other bullshit. Meanwhile, the overwhelming majority of the public who give not one whit can enjoy their family outings in peace.

Checkmate, sez I, and off to flip the burgers!

warrior1

(12,325 posts)
20. I think what could have happened
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:32 PM
Jul 2013

was someone from Russia hinted that Snowden would be on the plane and these countries do not want the headache of him in their country.

Whether or not. I hope the bring him to justice.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
24. Then why isn't the White House saying:
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 02:38 PM
Jul 2013

"someone from Russia hinted that Snowden would be on the plane and these countries do not want the headache of him in their country"

(I corrected "what" to "want". I do hope that's what you meant)

struggle4progress

(118,034 posts)
30. Bolivia lands in Austria, complaining of airspace issues in Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 05:25 PM
Jul 2013

Perhaps Austria, Bolivia, Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain are in the best position to sort out amongst themselves whatever happened here and to discuss the steps necessary to reduce the chance of future problems

It's already a 3-ring circus: adding an extra act seems unlikely to clarify matters.

struggle4progress

(118,034 posts)
33. Extract a definitive account from what Austria, Bolivia, Italy, France, Portugal, and Spain say;
Thu Jul 4, 2013, 05:47 PM
Jul 2013

then we can figure out whether more info is needed and where to seek it

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