So, just to sum up, Assange is a rapist, Snowden's a narcissist and nut job, Greenwald's a pervert,

[sibelian]

Last edited Sun Jul 14, 2013, 04:34 PM - Edit history (36)

and a liar AND a sociopath AND a pretentious little drama queen http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=3256762 , Carter is past his time, Gore is irrelevant, the three NSA whistleblowers who tried to do it by the book and got nowhere are.... something we don't know yet because no-one's said anything about them EDIT: ATTENTION SEEKERS (see below), EDIT: Cindy Sheehan is a Drama Queen, EDIT: ACLU are crackpots, EDIT: Scott Ritter is ANOTHER pervert, including (see below) some kind of as yet unexplained but dirty dirty dirty exhibitionism, EDIT: Alan Grayson is a drunk, EDIT: Medea Benjamin is an attention hog, EDIT: Daniel Ellsberg is demented AND a career activist desperately trying to stay relevant http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3219756, EDIT: MLK was an adulterer, Bayard Rustin was a "homo", Jean Seberg's baby wasn't her husband's, EDIT: Jeremy Scahill is racist, EDIT: Occupy are a bunch of smelly, unshaven hippy hipster types and RAPISTS, EDIT: Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Bill Clinton and Eliot Spitzer were philanderers, EDIT: Public School teachers are greedy, EDIT: Bradley Manning is confused about being gay and also a coward, EDIT: the Guardian is a right wing rag EDIT: Amnesty International is a Republican propaganda mill, EDIT: Amy Goodman is a 'rat-fucker', EDIT: Dennis Kucinich is a Ron Paul supporter,EDIT: Bernie Sanders has anger management issues, EDIT: Michael Moore is RICH, yes you heard me, RICH, the dirty dirty dirty capitalist swine AND ALSO FAT, EDIT: Vegetarians are ....elitists.... , EDIT:Whistleblowers are spying for foreign powers, EDIT: the Professional Left (....uh... isn't the "professional left" a right wing idea?) have a blind hatred for Obama http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023181358 the Europeans are hypocrites, Morales is a grandstanding opportunist, EDIT: and a parasite, all sorts of OTHER racists, Rand Paul supporters ABOUND...

EDIT: ....AND.

"Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world."

...apparently: http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023172626#post29


pant, pant, pant.


WHAT a LOT of personality flaws.

Have I missed anyone or anything out? I'm sure I have.

[leeroysphitz]

1. And those were the days of our D.U.. n/t

[ProSense]

2. Yes,

"Have I missed anyone or anything out? I'm sure I have."

...you missed Obama is a "douche."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023172329#post9
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023172329#post15

[OnyxCollie]

4. Douche is as douche does.

[Fuddnik]

9. And Jeramiah was a bullfrog.

[QC]

17. He was a good friend of mine. n/t

[Aerows]

38. Here you go :D

[zeemike]

76. Personaly

I never understood a single word he said
But I helped him drink his wine.

[sabrina 1]

232. Lol!

[MsPithy]

82. Fuddnik wins the internets, today!

This was a belly-jiggling guffaw!

I, of course, do not have a belly that jiggles. She said, while drinking her beer.

[SwampG8r]

129. wow that is a bit harsh

not the nozzle or the bag? just the douche?

[unblock]

3. i'm sure there's a point here,

but given that you probably have a personality flaw of some sort as well (hey, we all do), i guess we should all just dismiss your point out of hand and focus on that.

so what *is* your personality flaw?

huh?

huh?

[sibelian]

5. I snore.

ON PURPOSE.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. That can be a competitive sport.

[sibelian]

162. Yes. My partner wins, regularly.

[JDPriestly]

84. Read his e-mails, listen to his calls and subpoena his medical records and you will surely find out.

[AmBlue]

167. surely a subpoena isn't required these days

Ya think?

[treestar]

6. They are all three morons

who apparently think the only "transparency" is to have no national security or state secrets whatsoever, a standard they apply only to the United States of America - other countries are always led by heroes who would never do anything to protect their countries from outsiders and are in USA complete control anyway.

They are willing to see evil in our every doing and also all three have a penchant for demanding the world give them attention.

[Pholus]

12. Let's see what your pal Ann Coulter says about this:

"While the form of treachery varies slightly from case to case, liberals always manage to take the position that most undermines American security."

The convergence of the third way and the neocon is nearly complete.

Why pal? Just a reminder.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3177407

[treestar]

13. You're the ones sounding like the straw men the right wingers created

You're like right wing parodies of the left. So deranged about the US having any security at all that it makes right wingers look right when they claimed we hated America.

You and she could argue all day and maybe agree on some things - extremists usually do.

[Pholus]

22. And yet I didn't agree with her.

The equivalency that makes your position extremely questionable is:

"the US having any security at all" being represented by applying a Hoover (both machine and tactic) to everything electronic you can lay your hands on on a legal basis which must remain secret.

You show zero sense of proportion in any of our exchanges today. Calling out one secret is hating the concept that a state might have one. Calling out one questionable tactic is leaving us defenseless.

Calm down before you have a heart attack!

Furthermore, you already made it clear that you feel some kinship for Ann -- certainly you are excited by the same displays of power as she is. Too late to try to spin it around.

And trust me, during Bush I FORCED myself to read her crappy books to learn the mindset of the last set of authoritarian thugs. You want to echo her? Awesome, cause I can point that out. In that way, I am just like an NSA database....

[cali]

27. nope. you're the parody of a partisan.

so bent out of any form of reasonable thinking about any criticism of the president that you actually reference Ann Coulter approvingly.

(you can call other duers deranged and get away with it. I can't)

[Major Hogwash]

31. This parody's not dead . . .

. . . it's just pining for the Snowden.

[Pholus]

34. Totally.......Awesome!

[sibelian]

18. So they're ATTENTION SEEKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS.

EDITING.

[nineteen50]

53. So were Jefferson, Madison and Franklin especially

Franklin.

[sibelian]

55. I imagine Orwell was as well.

All these awful people.

[nineteen50]

57. as was Mark Twain

[SwampG8r]

124. that is true

I am reading his autobiography and the guy was a habitual line stepper

[dionysus]

191. is that a rick james\charlie murphy reference?

[SwampG8r]

220. got me!

[dionysus]

221. in the charlie murphy\rick james episode on chappelle show, charlie says of rick

"he was always stepping over the line... he was a habitual line stepper"

[Aerows]

41. Well, I'm sure they are all morons

to those people that can't be objective about the information they released.

Oh wait, this is about their personalities, then yes, they are horrible people if one chooses to see them that way subjectively.

[JDPriestly]

88. The issue here is not whether the US should be 100% honest and open about everything.

It is about whether the US should be sucking up all our electronic data.

That is the problem.

Clearly, it should not.

[Doctor_J]

95. without telling us

It is about whether the US should be sucking up all our electronic data.

Another tidbit ignored by the authoritarians is that the government is doing this on the sly

[Rex]

7. LOL!

This should rile up the natives of constant poutrage.

[Aerows]

42. And poutrage

lately seems to be "anything that make the President look bad". Mind you, none of them cared about it under Bush, but now we have a D and suddenly that makes all the difference.

Holy hannah, someone said something bad about the US that means they are attacking President Obama!

Good Lord, the man runs the free world, I think he can handle criticism.

[Rex]

45. I've always criticized our POTUS, with the mindset that he was an adult

and could handle such feedback (since we all know he spends 24/7 reading DU).

[Aerows]

50. I have too

But some have heart failure at the thought that he might hear any criticism in this tiny little fishbowl.

Though I will say that this tiny little fishbowl means something since many choose to both fight in and belittle it.

[xtraxritical]

68. "the man runs the free world"...in his mind he's a legend.

[JoePhilly]

71. More so than you or I, or any one else posting here.

[xtraxritical]

184. Abuse me with humility.

[JDPriestly]

91. False. I always protested the surveillance and wiretapping without a specific warrant.

So did Obama. And then somebody got to him. Maybe Obama has a character fault that he doesn't want the world to know about. Anyway, somebody turned him, changed his mind about the wiretapping.

I oppose it regardless of the party.

Wiretapping and obtaining pen registers ---- all of it should be limited to specific instances, specific criminal investigations of people believed based on probable cause to be possible suspects in an existing criminal case.

[Pholus]

8. It is the replacement of policy with personality.

A decent psy-op tactic when you think about it.

You can deflect the actual rational discussion of an issue if you can replace all references to that issue by an emotional image.

That image can be created by associating the issue with a person and then destroying the person with personality foibles.

This tactic works work GREAT if you had a large, perhaps "electronic," repository of things that the person has done or said in their past that can be mined.

[chrislindsay23]

79. sign of the times, perhaps?

As these programs wear on in years(Psy-ops, Cointelpro, yes, even MKULTRA),the combat of dissent becomes itself complacent, grows heavy under its own weight. It becomes this machine that gobbles up everything in sight, but yields little in terms of results in real time. These are antiquated ideas.
Good police work foils terrorism. Not systems of intended, pre-cognitive control. One can aid the other, but these two things are not mutually exclusive. One does not, and can not replace the other.
What I mean is that the destruction of an assailant's character is to be expected. This is automatic... Old school.
The purpose of one who pits himself against something this big... Well, there have got to be a lot of emotional reasons that drives him, or her. They are neither traitors, nor heroes. They decide in a moment their course.
The important thing is the impact they provide. They crash the gates and lay themselves bare.
Who among us, put under a microscope, can be all things(flaws not included).
No one can. No one performs well under a microscope.
I tend to defer to Valerie Plame's perspective on Snowden's character, and the absolute irrelevancy of it all.

[Zorra]

10. I'm thinking maybe Bradley Manning and wikileaks might

be somewhere in that mix.

[sibelian]

140. Mustn't forget cowardly Bradley!

Not to mention his confusion about his sexual orientation!

Cheers!

[backscatter712]

189. Oh, even though he DID get supermaxed, as opposed to Snowden, he's a coward! That's right!

And didn't you know, because he's mentally unstable, he deserved to be supermaxed and suicide-watched and stripped naked and prohibited from exercising and so on and so on and so on because MURICA! FUCK YEAH!

[sibelian]

216. Absolutely!

Because strip searching is a fabulous way to deal with mentally unstable people! SUPER DUPER!

[Major Hogwash]

11. You're from Scotland??

Are you an American living overseas, or a Scotsman?

[sibelian]

21. ah ha! you found me finally. :)

I am a Scotsman.

[Aerows]

44. I like where this is going

[SwampG8r]

128. a true scotsman?nt

[sibelian]

131. True as the sky is blue.

[MichaelMcGuire]

145. I thought there was something homely about you!

[sibelian]

149. Cheers, buddy!

Are we avoiding the subject of Salmond or are you a YES man, like me?

[MichaelMcGuire]

150. My sig says it all. In fact I'm in it!

A SNP and a YES voter. But DU gives me a wee welcome break.

[sibelian]

159. YAY!

Freedom from Westminster and the whole snivelling pile of corporate crotch-sniffers! Good riddance to the whole craven lot of them!

[MichaelMcGuire]

171. They may slither their way back, but at least then we can vote to keep them out. LOL

Last edited Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:52 AM - Edit history (1)

In saying that their so used to the troughs and benefits there they will want to stay.

[sibelian]

231. Murray's won!

lol! How British is he about to get?

[cascadiance]

14. And Dominique Strauss-Kahn, Bill Clinton and Eliot Spitzer were philanderers, Weiner has a weiner...

... Scott Ritter likes affairs with fake minors on the internet, etc., etc.

Yes, we all like to be distracted with the "messenger" instead of focusing on the problems they try to tell us about or guide us away from.

Yes, some of them were "bad" people, and as if that suddenly makes everything else they say or do "wrong". That's the way the PTB like to manipulate us! Works to well with too many people! And Snowden is the big target because he's going after and zeroing in on the very tools that the PTB uses to do all of these "distractions".

[Enthusiast]

65. Good ones!...nt

[sibelian]

153. phew...

got my work cut out for me here, haven't I...

typetypetype

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Morales is fat

Pretzel_Warrior

good point. the folks here are willing to defend this el gordo

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3172698

[cali]

28. holy moly. that's contemptible and pathetic

[Mojorabbit]

116. yes it is nt

[allin99]

48. some very scary people here

[backscatter712]

64. +1 for truth!

The fact that the same group of people can post this demonizing, character-assassinating shit over, and over, and over, speaks very poorly for Democratic Underground.

More and more, I come to the conclusion that DU is no longer Democratic, and not Underground.

[sibelian]

138. ! hm Self-absorbed, I think, rather than scary.

I've never seen so many people expend so much effort on such flimsy excuses for bad policy.

[backscatter712]

160. They're paid.

ProSense, for example has over a hundred OPs bashing Snowden.

That isn't mere OCD.

That's a sign that he may be doing this for a living.

China's not the only nation out there with a Fifty Cent Party.

I'll bet good money that the Koch Brothers, or one of their many political front groups, are paying people to post shit like that.

Go to any major newspaper web site, and go to their comment sections (which are almost always poorly moderated, especially when the paper is run by hardcore conservatives) and you'll see gangs of teabagger sockpuppets bullying and attacking anyone disagreeing with them.

[sibelian]

164. I've no doubt some of them are.

the problem with paid internet commentators, the problem that somehow the people hiring them never seem to understand, is that all that happens is that their message is delivered plus counterargument. It's a disastrous strategy.

Also, working from a script when your opponent doesn't have to just makes you look increasingly ridiculous.

[QC]

16. Ron Wyden is just a Republican pretending to be a Democrat.

Yes, someone here said that not long ago.

[olddots]

19. Grits ain't grocerys

and Mona Lisa was a man .........mid tempo shuffle with stop times -key of G

we aren't our brother's keeper but jeez 7 billion brothers ?

[malaise]

20. You forgot Scott Ritter

[sibelian]

23. What's wrong with him?

I didn't see that one...

[malaise]

26. Scott Ritter exposed Bushco

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/18032-snowden-ritter-messenger

[randome]

47. He also exposed himself.

[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.[/center][/font]
[hr]

[sibelian]

52. PICTURES.

OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

[SidDithers]

24. No, Greenwald is just a clown...

the other 2 you got right, tho.

Sid

[HangOnKids]

25. Cindy Sheehan Is A Drama Queen n/t

[sibelian]

29. Thank you!

... typetypetype

[Skidmore]

30. Yes, tbey are the

triune godhead, infallible in all things.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. Amnesty International is a right-wing Republican propaganda mill that should have its tax exempt

status pulled - (I'm not kidding you - that pearl of wisdom was stated right here on DU by one of the more prolific defenders of enhanced surveillance):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023092493#post131

[sibelian]

240. put it in

Forgot to say thanks! And what a consternation it caused me when I found that out about Amnesty! I'm so glad all these well-informed people are here to keep us straight...

[Scurrilous]

33. You forgot Nancy Pelosi.

Her opinion means jackshit, she's a corporate shill, she makes America suck, she's an apparatchik, a hypocrite, and her opinion that Snowden is no hero is as funny as shit on a popsicle.

They're all in here somewhere:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023135753

[Aerows]

51. The more you claim that you don't care

is more evidence that you do.

[QC]

35. The Guardian is a right wing rag. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. and prints propaganda for the British intelligence services

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023034235#post101

[QC]

62. And is owned by Rupert Murdoch. n/t

[rpannier]

85. The Guardian is wholly owned by Scott Trust Limited

I'd be curious where you get owned by Rupert Murdoch

As to your assertion that the Guardian is right wing, they have been the biggest media critic of Murdoch in Britain.
They are the biggest critic of the present Prime Minister and his party.
They regularly criticized Bushco when he was president.
The had round the clock coverage of the phone hacking scandal
They've run at least twenty stories on Murdoch's secretly taped apology at the Sun
They opposed Murdoch purchasing Sky Cable
They have questioned for over ten years the relationship between UK politicians and Murdoch

They're hardly conservative and as far as I can find they're not owned by Murdoch

[idwiyo]

98. That poster is sarcastic. And so is the one above him.

[rpannier]

118. thank you

my apologies

[idwiyo]

120. No need to apologise. These days it's almost impossible to tell who is serious and who isn't.

Have a look at the link in post #40. It's Comedy Gold.

[oberliner]

99. Pretty sure the post was satire

In keeping with the theme of the thread.

[muriel_volestrangler]

105. It had been a genuine claim, a few weeks ago, on DU

SoapBox (5,981 posts)
102. Good Bye and Good Riddance.

With all the "moral outrage" going on...WHY would Americans be supporting this guy and
the MURDOCH owned Guardian?

I could give a crap about this...if the NSA wanted the records I simply do not care...I call Mom's Cardiologist and check in at my work...analysis and listen away...I've NOTHING to hide.

What do all you "moral outrage" folks have to hide?

This whole thing is such bullshit, in a day and age of TERRORISTS that would love another 9/11.

I hope somebody kicks this worm's ass.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=504813

[MichaelMcGuire]

165. Seems to rest on the presumption that blanket data mining is effective against terrorism.

Director of the Foundation for Information Policy Research (C Bowden) describes how blanket data retention is unlikely to be effective. I know hes talking with the (RIP) Act 2000 in mind. I wonder how far removed it is?


"surveillance via ISP and telephone traffic data can easily be evaded by using pre-paid (or stolen) mobile phones and web-based e-mail from public terminals to avoid identification. Organized criminals already routinely use the former, and reports of the modus operandi of the 9/11 terrorists indicate they used the latter. Web-based e-mail services can be provided via any website and will leave no trace with the ISP. They can be set-up on any computer with an always-on connection (domestic broadband is ideal), and there are thousands of examples large and small."

Even with:

"compel logging and retention extends beyond ISPs and telephone companies"

However

"Even such drastic measures would not eliminate possibilities for undetectable communication. The stealthy techniques of steganography (information hiding) allow messages to be camouflaged in sound, pictures, or other routine content in ways analogous to hiding a pebble on a shingle beach."

Brings up the question if these types of blanket data retention is next to useless against terrorism what is it for?

http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1046&context=dltr

[rpannier]

119. thanks for the info

my apologies

[deurbano]

101. They are just calling out the (false) claims that have been made to discredit the Guardian...

by those who want to discredit and dismiss the Snowden revelations that have been published in the paper. (These posters are agreeing with your point that these are smears, not facts.)

[DinahMoeHum]

36. The "Nothing But The Best For The Oppressed" syndrome at work.

[Octafish]

37. Dennis Kucinich is a Ron Paul supporter.

It's difficult keeping track of who to hate. Thanks, sibelian!

[Rex]

49. Yes that particular one was uuuuggggly.

Although I did love watching people flop all over themselves when Dennis HAD THE GALL to admit he believes in ETs. That one caused the Flat worlders to go flying off the handle!

Since we all KNOW that the Universe revolves around our solar system and no other!

[Octafish]

66. And Shirley MacLaine.

Whom I adore in every good sense of the word.

As for UFOs, LongTomH brought up this big convention this weekend:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11355408

Me? They can call me crazy or a conspiracy theorist or anything else, I like to learn new stuff:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1135262

[bvar22]

186. The same people who were ridiculing DK for admitting that he has seen a UFO,

believe the politicians who tell them that a benevolent Giant Invisible Hand of the Marketplace will reach down from the heavens and "Correct Mistakes in the Free Market"
....but ONLY if we take ALL the regulations off of the corporations.
(Those regulations your fathers and grandfathers shed BLOOD to put in place).

Unidentified Flying Objects actually exist.
There is absolutely no proof of the existence of a giant Invisible Hand of the Marketplace.
In fact, all available evidence suggests that the Invisible Hand is nothing more than a giant fraud.

[sibelian]

93. MANY THANKS, Octafish

So many appalling America haters. What's to be done?

I have, with great sorrow, added your observation to my list.

SHAME ON YOU, DENNIS. SHAME.

[arely staircase]

106. Obama's DOJ had a plan to attack OWS with snipers in Houston

[Octafish]

112. If not the FBI, some government contractor, anyway.

My guess, it's something to do with Craft International. The mercenaries for hire were started by a famous sniper and evidently had a presence in Boston that horrible day.



Perhaps you remember, arely staircase, DU had a thread on it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023119333

[Marr]

39. "Reality-Based Community™", population 25.

Apparently everyone else is just some brand of lunatic or hater.

[magellan]

43. I put all of them on ignore last night just to see what DU looked like without them

It's INCREDIBLE how much cleaner the place is without their pom-pom litter everywhere.

[sibelian]

54. I've been thinning them out steadily. I tend to give them the doubt.

I think there are a few left who seem to be at least trying to make sense.

[magellan]

56. Oh, it was just an experiment

I see them in all their high kick glory again. Rah, team!

[sibelian]

226. I don't envy you. I couldn't handle the rise in blood pressure any more...

I'm too old for this crap!

[Egalitarian Thug]

207. +1 & LOL. n/t

[tsuki]

46. You about got it covered. nt

[obxhead]

58. Just until we elect the next Republican for President.

Then they will all be quoted and loved by all on DU again.

[sibelian]

59. By that time they will GENUINELY have become better people

through the power of HEALTHY ROBUST DEBATE.

[obxhead]

89. Huh?

They tell the truth.

The reality is they are saying the same things today they said in the last decade.

[sibelian]

134. yeah, i know that, you know that, they know that

but some people prefer to see things differently, until it's expedient not to.

[great white snark]

60. You forgot Libertarians.

The kind that are grateful for your service.

[99th_Monkey]

201. Not to mention "Libertarian-lovers" like Mr. Greenwald

we must add that to Greenwald's fast-growing list of "major character flaws"

[Jack Rabbit]

61. Eugene Robinson is a white racist?

Please click here.

[Enthusiast]

63. You forgot, Nader is a narcissistic asshole!

And anyone else that has something inconvenient to say that doesn't fit the approved national dialog.

[Sancho]

67. Bush/Cheney were liars, murders, and crooks! The point is what they uncovered!

Until we quit shooting the messenger, we have problems...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. You forgot "Hillary is a Neocon".

[sibelian]

77. GOOD POINT.

Perhaps I should start a seperate thread detailing Hilary's personality flaws?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

83. Thread?

More like:

Announcements
Welcome & Help
Latest Breaking News
Good Reads
Video & Multimedia
Politics 2013
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
Ask the Administrators
Hillary The Neocon

It MIGHT fit everyone's opinion.

[mettamega]

70. you seem to have gotten lost on your way to the Drudge Report

Carter is the only one talking sense about Fundamental Religions, sadly Gore and our planet well-being has become irrelevant - and the rest is beyond commenting on as it is senseless mind melt

[sibelian]

75. ... Oh FFS

do you see this thing here --->

I HATE IT.

Hate. HATE. With a fanatical loathing bordering on the obsessive.

PLEASE don't make me use it...

[annabanana]

237. hee!. . . . . .n/t

[cheapdate]

72. Drink the kool-aid, sheeple! Bet the the mainstream media won't cover this! 'Nuff said!

[JoePhilly]

73. This image comes to mind ...

[sibelian]

78. I know, isn't it terrible?

Poor America.

[JoePhilly]

81. Actually, America is just fine.

Members of Du have predicted the demise of America for a long time. Predictions here are not worth much.

DADT was never going to end.

Iraq was never going to end.

The stock market was going to crash.

The double dip recession was predicted every summer since Obama took office (until this year).

Social Security has been killed (almost) 10 or 15 times.

America is going to be just fine. DU outrage tends to be a contra-indicator.

[sibelian]

87. "DU outrage tends to be a contra-indicator."

Oh.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

You know, I have this sneaky feeling that that sentence has a strange, counterintuitive relation to my OP.

I'm kind of mentally feeling my way through this idea at the moment and I can't quite put my finger on it.

Hmmmmm.

I'l get back to you.

[JoePhilly]

92. Actually, that particular post has little to do with your OP, and is a simple

observation relative to your response to my prior post as to the state of America.

But feel free to get back to me.

[sibelian]

130. NownowNOW.

Are you quite sure?

[truedelphi]

122. The matter of Iraq has ended for most Americans.

But not for the families of those who lost their loved ones there; or for the service people who have life long injuries.

And it will be a hell of a long time before the matter ends for the Iraqis.

[JoePhilly]

205. True, and yet besides the point.

Obama did not start the Iraq war, but he did end it on the same timeline that he ran on, even though many here on DU said he would never end it.

Many of the folks who are the most outraged here on DU now, made those predictions.

[TheKentuckian]

228. He ran on 16 months but instead ended up following Bush's agreement and tried to stretch that

We still maintain a substantial footprint.

[Doctor_J]

172. Heh

Actually, America is just fine

[JoePhilly]

206. And with that, you demonstrate my point.

Thanks.

[sibelian]

215. It's not a very pointy point, really, is it?

more of a bulge, or a lump.

[johnnyreb]

80. And the Occupiers are filthy unshaven bums!

And the colonists, too.

[cascadiance]

110. Yea... The tea partiers were just "nice". The occupiers were "violent rapists"...

[sibelian]

143. Fricken HIPPIES.

No, even worse than that, HIPSTERS!!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

86. The ACLU writes at junior high school level

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023069890#post52

[Uncle Joe]

90. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, sibelian.

[Bluenorthwest]

94. Bernie Sanders does angry, vein poppiing spittle laced politicking

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=761678&mesg_id=761696

[sibelian]

142. What a HEEL.

I'm disappointed in him.



typetypetype

[bvar22]

96. DUers who OPPOSE Government Domestic Spying are RACISTS!!!!

...because what else could it be?

[sibelian]

155. ...

probably narcissism. It's almost always narcissism.

I mean I'm a narcissist. I think. That last sentence began with "I". How narcissistic is that?

[Doctor_J]

97. Me. I'm a racist

despite spending time, money, and my vote on a black man for president. Twice. I suppose I am also a sexist because I'm pissed that HRC is trying to get the TPP passed. Meh. I am lucky to have lived long enough to set my own standards and live by my own principles that stay the same through different presidents.

For you BOGers: I hate George W Bush. I am disappointed in the current president.

[ReRe]

100. If you stand on the Constitution, youre' a....

... "Constitutional Fundamentalist."

[Hydra]

103. That was a good one!

Defend the Constitution and you're some sort of fanatic.

What do we need laws for anyway? We have Obama! And we'll always have him!...oh, wait...

[DirkGently]

102. You make flailing ad hominem attacks on any / everyone sound so distasteful.

[sibelian]

185. Shit. Am I being judgemental?

[DirkGently]

188. Quite possibly. Please keep it up. n/t

[East Coast Pirate]

104. President Evo Morales is a parasite.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023175948

[sibelian]

141. Thaaank YOU

typetypetype

[QC]

107. "Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world."

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023172626#post29

[Bluenorthwest]

111. That is so horrible. Just disgusting.

If that had been said about Africa the jury would have seen it for what it is.

[sibelian]

132. ...

Well.

I didn't know that...






typetypetype

[LittleBlue]

156. Ugly, ugly statement

This saga reveals the true colors for the members of DU.

[sibelian]

157. I have to say I am surprised by it all, but not that suprised.

This site has always had more than it's fair share of contributors who are here primarily to stir shit up and cause crap. The loathing for for the left is getting clearer and clearer by the day.

[2ndAmForComputers]

210. I alerted the Admins. (Post is old.) Let's see what happens.

[Puglover]

108. IIRC

Isn't Alan Grayson a drunk?

[sibelian]

139. Thank you, Pug!

typetypetype

[sabrina 1]

109. Amy Goodman is part of the 'rat-fucker' pack.

[Octafish]

114. An authoritarian rat-fucker, at that.

Right? Amiright? Right?

[sabrina 1]

121. Lol, are you ever wrong Octafish?

[sibelian]

233. Missed that one!

Thanks ever so!


typetypetype

[Bluenorthwest]

113. Almost forgot! Gay people should be ashamed for not caring about anyone or anything else.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2952192

[sibelian]

151. I'm with you...

but we need an entire new fricken INTERNET to deal with how folk communicate about homosexuality, particularly on the left.

[East Coast Pirate]

154. It's that gay agenda again.

Add all this up and it gives one a feeling of Déjà vu. Let's see... Oh yeah. Back in the 90s and 2000s when I was posting to a Usenet forum with liberals and conservatives posting to it.

[99Forever]

115. I'm sure Linkasauris Rex...

.. could add to the list.

[sibelian]

135. I can't see her any more. She has mysteriously disappeared from my view of DU altogether.

I was playing around with buttons on the Internet and POP.... gone she was, never to be seen again.

I do hope I haven't made some awful mistake.

[QC]

117. Daniel Ellsberg suffers from dementia. n/t

[sibelian]

136. Thaaaaank you

[Kurovski]

123. Michael Moore is rich!

How dare he pretend to care about the downtrodden!

[QC]

125. He's also fat! n/t

[Kurovski]

126. how can he tell US about healthcare?

Obviously a liar for cash.

[sibelian]

137. I forgot fat!

I totally forgot!

thaaaaank YOU

[Kurovski]

127. Governor Ann Richards was a lesbian.

Karl Rove said so.

[Art_from_Ark]

133. The Founding Fathers were all just a bunch of

plutocratic slave-owners whose Constitution isn't worth the paper it's printed on

[MichaelMcGuire]

144. Snowden is little red riding hood

You forgot that.

[sibelian]

146. I'd need a whole forum for snowden, Mikey, old mate.

My poor fingers are being typed off to the knuckle as it is!

[MichaelMcGuire]

148. :)

[Blanks]

174. Hmm, I suggested that yesterday.

I want to be clear on my position on Snowden. This kind of behavior should not be viewed as heroic.

It is something completely different to reveal secret information to the press and insist on anonymity than it is to reveal secrets and be viewed as a hero.

Young people who commit suicide receive a lot of attention after the act and sometimes spur 'copy cats'. Its dangerous to give someone a lot of positive attention for doing something illegal.

If people are willing to commit suicide because they see how much attention it gets - revealing government secrets for attention seems a much less permanent way to get a lot of positive attention.

Not everyone who thinks Snowden shouldn't be getting a lot of positive attention is a troll. As far as using Manning as an example for why Snowden did it the way he did, we shouldn't know who he is either.

People should watch 'All the Presidents Men' (or read the book). I remember when some old guy died (and I'd never heard of him). The only reason it was in the news was because he was suspected of being 'deep throat'. That's how one effectively stops corruption - anonymously.

Anyone saying that Snowden should be seen as a hero isn't thinking it through. I don't care if it is Jimmy Carter (a man that I have a lot of respect for), wrong is wrong.

As far as the secrets he revealed, I wasn't surprised or appalled by them. Oddly, I thought everyone knew that this kind of thing was going on. That doesn't mean I like it, but we could have just as easily gotten the information from an anonymous source.

I wouldn't expect it to stop either, people will modify their behavior now that they know, but there is no constitutional guarantee of privacy (according to my attorney). I guess we could start a petition, but I wouldn't count on that stopping it either.

[Smarmie Doofus]

176. So, heroes: Manning-yes; Snowden-No; Ellsberg-Yes? And....

>>>Its dangerous to give someone a lot of positive attention for doing something illegal. >>>>

Dangerous for whom and what? Depends on the stakes and circumstances, seems to me. Rosa Parks' illegal acts were dangerous to the established order of Montgomery and of the old south. Now most people ...even there... recognize the imperative of that "illegal" behavior.

And of the attention paid to it.

[Blanks]

196. I wasn't clear on Manning.

No, I don't think he's a hero. Someone used him as an example for how whistle blowers are treated as a justification for the inappropriate behavior of Snowden. I can see; based on my last post, how you might come to that conclusion, but that is not my opinion.

I believe that heroes are an invention of the media to manipulate people into a certain behavior. To get us to feel a certain way about things.

Rosa Parks simply refused to move to the back of the bus. She didn't choose to be a hero, she was just tired. She was chosen as a symbol for the movement because her character was above reproach.

I expect she would have been content to remain anonymous similar to the guy who brought the 'watergate scandal' to the forefront (one of the reasons why she was such a good symbol).

As far as the pentagon papers, it was leaked to the press, and the press sought legal advice - choosing to publish because they felt that they were protected under the first amendment 'freedom of the press' protection.

There is a difference between believing that something was handled correctly and believing that the person who handled it is a hero. Some things should be revealed to citizens - I'd rather they were revealed by people who have met with others and decided the merits and evaluated the downside. This is how it was handled in the pentagon papers and the watergate scandal, and by the people who selected Rosa Parks as their symbol for the injustices created by hatred based solely on race.

A lone cowboy trying to single-handedly right the wrongs of the world is the model I disapprove of. I suppose it gets all the libertarian's blood to pumping, but as a method of problem solving (see Ron Paul's accomplishments in congress for an example), it is completely ineffective.

That's my beef about the whole Snowden thing, revealing the secrets (to the press) is ok, revealing the secrets in the manner that he did is not ok. Since I don't believe in heroes at all; the entire debate about whether Snowden is a hero or not - is a complete waste of time.

If we treat him like a hero; how many other dumb asses can we expect to step forward with government secrets and expect a ticker tape parade?

[ucrdem]

147. OP is a mixed-up mess. Hide it.

Oops, thought I was on jury duty, sorry!

[Smarmie Doofus]

152. Fred Fischer belonged to the National Lawyers Guild in law school....

... and was probably some kind of pinko, commie or commie symp.

(This sort of thing has a long tradition.)

K and R

[backscatter712]

158. We can thank the allegedly large gang of "Loyal Americans" who make DU suck.

Here in this thread, we've identified their talking points.

It's a recurrent pattern.

Don't forget.

"Occupy is filled with dirty commie hippies who are raping people and doing drugs!"

[sibelian]

161. I forgot the rape!

Thanks for that.

[backscatter712]

163. Ah, yes - the anti-GLBT attacks on Greenwald.

Yesterday, they've been calling him "GeeGee" and the like.

They let their masks slip.

Yeah, I have a question for Skinner: What the fuck are they still doing here? I thought the rule on DU was "No trolling" and "No right-wingers."

[sibelian]

166. Whereabouts was that?

didn't see...

I don't think Skinner's in a position to just dump them all but there's probably a case to be made for banning at least one of them...

[backscatter712]

168. Here's a thread from a few days ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023134563#post4

Looks like this happened last week, rather than yesterday. But yeah. For a while the McCarthyists were calling Greenwald "GG", "GeeGee" or "GiGi" - clear homophobia.

[sibelian]

169. Hm, I'm not familiar with the term...

gay myself, from UK.

[IdaBriggs]

170. So don't listen to them and TRUST FOX!

You missed that part.

Nicely done!

[allin99]

173. ACLU are crackpots.

can't find the post to link, but others saw it as well.

[sibelian]

178. bloody hell.

It never ends!

what have I done???




typetypetype

[QC]

175. Accuracy in Media and Little Green Footballs are solid sources of information,

unlike The Guardian and the ACLU.

[Smarmie Doofus]

177. MLK was an adulterer, Bayard Rustin was a "homo", Jean Seberg's baby wasn't her husband's.

Blah blah blah.

[sibelian]

179. wow...

typetypetype

[Autumn]

180. Did you realize when you started this OP it would be a full time job?

Bookmarking, because this ones a keeper. You have given this old lady enough giggles for a week.

[sibelian]

182. ...

... what if it lasts FOREVER?

EEEEEEK.

Maybe they'll make a movie out of it and I'll be rich and famous...

[Autumn]

190. I'm going to buy the movie!

Who do you want to play your part? I know you are a Scotsman but I kind of have a thing for Johnny Depp. Do you mind?

[sibelian]

209. I'm nowhere near that handsome. I'm considerably paler and lumpier with sticky-out ears.

But as it's your imagination, cast who you like!

Anyway, it'll be a crazy 1970s science fiction dystopia with the final shot tracking back slowly and shakily with sinister beepy electronic music and me screaming "WHAT HAVE I UNLEASHED???" surrounded by crowds of lefties with lists of every single criticism ever levelled at the left...

[WilliamPitt]

181. Medea Benjamin is an attention hog.

[sibelian]

183. Thaaaank you very MUCH

Gotta be careful - saying things means you end up with people's valuable ATTENTION, which is the same as STEALING.

It's important.


typetypetype

[QC]

208. She was a great gal until noon Eastern time on January 20, 2009.

Then she suddenly became a horrible person.

[sibelian]

187. I just thought there would be someone NORMAL. You know?

There's loads of people on this site that think the NSA's surveillance programme is a bad thing, and I just thought that, you know, by now, SOMEONE in the public eye would have stepped forward to criticise it, like we're all doing, and that that person would NOT have some awful, neurotic, glaringly hideous twist of the soul that completely and incontrovertibly devalues everything they say. and there's NO-ONE. There must be someone SOMEWHERE. It's just such a weird coincidence that in every single instance of public criticism of such things the critic is some kind of WEIRDO.

What's a lefty to do, huh? What's a lefty to do?

DESPAIR.

SIGH.

[Kurovski]

192. Planned Parenthood is an abortion mill.

I'm not 100% sure I've seen that here on DU. Maybe someone else will remember.

[Kurovski]

193. Public School teachers are greedy, wealthy ciphers.

[sibelian]

222. the BUMS.

[Kurovski]

194. Whistleblowers are spies.

[sibelian]

234. In it goes...

typetypetype

[Kurovski]

195. Gays and lesbians are too demanding.

[Kurovski]

197. Vegetarians are stupid elitists.

[sibelian]

223. ...

okay. That makes no sense.


typetypetype

[Kurovski]

198. Atheism is a religion.

[Kurovski]

199. Road maps are flight plans.

[Kurovski]

200. Bush and Cheney policies were pretty good after all.

(Something upbeat!)

[sibelian]

227. My head just impodes at that nonsense.

It's impossible to debate with someone who just repeatedly tells flat out porkies.

[Kurovski]

229. "Porkies"? Hey, are you from Eng-a-land?

Foreigners are stealing American jobs!

[sibelian]

230. Not England.

Scotland...

[UTUSN]

202. **plonk** (experimenting with the usage of "**plonk**")

Since I'm not clear from the Urban Dictionary definition below and from the way it was used on one of my (anti-)SNOWDEN posts whether it was being addressed to MY post itself or to my take-down of the poster I was addressing. Was it approving of MY post (since I'm not a newbie and my take-down was of a newbie), but if so why was it Replying to MY post instead of "plonking" at the newbie? However, given this O.P., I'm fairly sure it was disapproving of MY post. **plonk" on me!1



**********QUOTE********

1. plonk
Cheap wine


2. plonk
from: the on-line hacker Jargon File, version 4.2.3:

plonk excl.,vt. Usenet: possibly influenced by British slang
`plonk' for cheap booze, or `plonker' for someone behaving stupidly
(latter is lit. equivalent to Yiddish `schmuck') The sound a (newbie)
makes as he falls to the bottom of a (kill file). While it originated
in the {newsgroup} talk.bizarre, this term (usually written "*plonk*&quot
is now (1994) widespread on Usenet as a form of public ridicule.

St00oid is as st00pid oes. *PLONK*



3. plonk
The sound a user makes as it hits the bottom of another user's killfile bin
Some AOL user wrote:
> (snipped pointless drivel)

*PLONK*

*************UNQUOTE******

[Kurovski]

203. Anonymous is just a bunch of malcontents and vandals.

(I just wish to point out to Anonymous that I hold no such belief and further, that I love cats and they love me.)

[sibelian]

213. arg!

Thank you for you contributions...

[truebluegreen]

204. O flower of Scotland...

when will we see your like again?

Thanks for this post! Bestest ever.

[sibelian]

211. thank you, although I kinda thinking

.... heeeelp....

[truebluegreen]

212. Trying to keep up with all the suggestions

will give you carpal tunnel...made me LMAO though. Thank you! After the last few weeks it was much needed relief and perspective.

[sibelian]

214. I'm going to have to start blocking everyone out into groups...

mental health problems *here*, narcissists and related variants *here*, sexual deviants *here*...

[truebluegreen]

217. Still a monumental task--Dog speed!

[sibelian]

218. ARF!

[truebluegreen]

219. The BaaStuds!

Clearly we both have excellent taste in video. Between the dogs and the lighting-geniuses-with-a-lot-of-time-on-their-hands (I won't say "too much" given the results) it is a masterpiece. The sheep walking, and the fireworks are my favs...

[QC]

224. Gleen Greenwald is a sociopath. n/t

[sibelian]

225. Naturally...

Won't be long before they just come straight out and call him a "degenerate" or a "subversive"...

[QC]

242. All that was old is new again....

[SMC22307]

235. Evidently we're all racists, but Jeremy Scahill in particular.

And Billy Bragg lives in a big house. Fucker.

[sibelian]

236. Dunno the guy...

Who has made this observation, and where....?

[SMC22307]

238. Scahill?

Hedges, Greenwald and Benjamin, too:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3043387

The Billy Bragg slams took place around when Thatcher kicked the bucket.

[sibelian]

239. Thaaaank YOU.

And look who it's from, no surprises there...

[SMC22307]

241. You're welcome, and...

you got that right. No surprises at all...

[sibelian]

243. UPDATE

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023256762

"Pretentious little drama queen"! wheee!

[sibelian]

244. But late with this one...

Naughty old Ellsberg is a career activist! Dearie tut!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3219756

Silly old Daniel. Still reaching for a bite at that sweet, sweet relevance.

[QC]

245. kick

[WorseBeforeBetter]

246. "Pretentious little drama queens" of the world unite!

Kickarooni.

[Octafish]

247. Heard that Greenwald calls Snowden a traitor.

Like an Arp galaxy, that collision.

[QC]

248. Alan Grayson is no better than Darrell Issa.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023347636#post5