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Tx4obama

(36,974 posts)
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:55 PM Jul 2013

Snowden: Has your non-support or support of Snowden changed over time?


Has your non-support or support of Snowden changed over time?

Poll below...
20 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
Yes, I started out supporting him - but changed my mind and now I do not
1 (5%)
Yes, I started out not supporting him - but changed my mind and now I do
1 (5%)
No, I have always NOT supported him
4 (20%)
No, I HAVE always supported him
13 (65%)
Other
1 (5%)
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Snowden: Has your non-support or support of Snowden changed over time? (Original Post) Tx4obama Jul 2013 OP
As soon as he high-tailed it to Hong Kong.. HipChick Jul 2013 #1
I've never met the man. All I have to go on is the media and I don't trust the media much. NYC_SKP Jul 2013 #2
Congratulations for making one of the few sane posts in many Snowden threads.. Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #11
That He Broke A 1% Inspired Law Is Not In Question - That He Did Us All A Favor Is Unquestionable cantbeserious Jul 2013 #3
Too-young-to-shave had a lot to prove Kolesar Jul 2013 #4
From the start he was a smarmy douchebag who thought he was smarter than everyone else baldguy Jul 2013 #5
I'll have a cup of that reply. :) jaysunb Jul 2013 #19
He is lousy marriage material.. HipChick Jul 2013 #6
I consider him to be an American hero and a modern day Paul Revere quinnox Jul 2013 #7
I was neutral at first. But honestly, the constant coverage and hero worship has soured my opinion. BenzoDia Jul 2013 #8
Honestly.. I do not know how I feel about Snowden Peacetrain Jul 2013 #9
I never supported or not supported Snowden. Rex Jul 2013 #10
I'm glad he did what he did rucky Jul 2013 #12
All of the venom being spewed at Snowden here on DU has made me much more ... dawg Jul 2013 #13
This is my position as well Harmony Blue Jul 2013 #18
+1. n/t winter is coming Jul 2013 #21
That's pretty much my take as well. WorseBeforeBetter Jul 2013 #30
Same here. /nt Marr Jul 2013 #40
Never did support the man. Jamaal510 Jul 2013 #14
+1 Well said n/t jaysunb Jul 2013 #20
I dislike the Pin Up Politics folks who want to make important stories about Bluenorthwest Jul 2013 #15
Yes. Didn't care one way or the other as a person at first. HooptieWagon Jul 2013 #16
I'm more interested in FirstLight Jul 2013 #17
Other, I tend to support but am reserving judgment and haven't changed in that respect Fumesucker Jul 2013 #22
I started out not trusting him, but the anti-4th amendment authoritarians here Zorra Jul 2013 #23
Other. Snowden is not the freakin' issue. RedCappedBandit Jul 2013 #24
Beat me to it. Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #25
Never gave a damn one way or the other about hte guy Scootaloo Jul 2013 #26
I'd like to see a second poll noamnety Jul 2013 #27
ha ha too funny flamingdem Jul 2013 #29
ambivalent at first--my opinion of him exponentially increased with the fanatic gov't defenders Alamuti Lotus Jul 2013 #28
unwarranted nasty comment flamingdem Jul 2013 #31
Thank you for informing me of what is acceptable to say Alamuti Lotus Jul 2013 #36
We all have the power to click your mouse away from a post. Left coast liberal Jul 2013 #42
I was ambivalent at first mitchtv Jul 2013 #33
I support him in theory, Blue_In_AK Jul 2013 #32
I have never supported him and never will. gholtron Jul 2013 #34
Even though we are on opposite sides of this question, this is a great poll question and HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #35
When I learned he abandoned that ballerina, that was the last straw for me. reformist2 Jul 2013 #37
I wonder if she's a Libertarian flamingdem Jul 2013 #38
But... Anna Chapman! PDittie Jul 2013 #41
Oh, FFS matt819 Jul 2013 #39
 

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)
2. I've never met the man. All I have to go on is the media and I don't trust the media much.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 07:59 PM
Jul 2013

Does this dude even exist?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
11. Congratulations for making one of the few sane posts in many Snowden threads..
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:09 PM
Jul 2013

People are certainly emotional about characters from television. Very simple minded really.

cantbeserious

(13,039 posts)
3. That He Broke A 1% Inspired Law Is Not In Question - That He Did Us All A Favor Is Unquestionable
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:00 PM
Jul 2013

For those that still don't get why this is so important - see The Young Turks video linked here at DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017129956

Kolesar

(31,182 posts)
4. Too-young-to-shave had a lot to prove
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:00 PM
Jul 2013

And his story did not shake out satisfactorily. Paulbot, Greenwaldbot: that didn't help him.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
5. From the start he was a smarmy douchebag who thought he was smarter than everyone else
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:03 PM
Jul 2013

But who obviously wasn't. Everything else I have since learned has reenforced that first impression.

HipChick

(25,532 posts)
6. He is lousy marriage material..
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:05 PM
Jul 2013

Keeps secrets from his supposed GF

but can't keep Classified secrets that he signed an oath for..


 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
7. I consider him to be an American hero and a modern day Paul Revere
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:05 PM
Jul 2013

And I have not seen any reason or new developments to cause me to change that opinion, so far. If Snowden ended up selling crucial secrets to Russia or something like that, then that would be another matter. But the story of a patriotic American of conscience has remained consistent. I can forgive him for evading the U.S. at this time, he is a young man, and perhaps with good reason is afraid of being thrown into Gitmo or tortured in an undisclosed location if caught.

I would only support Snowden being brought to face justice under certain conditions. One is, the trial would not be secret, and would be public. And it would not be done in a military court, but a regular court of law. No secret trials, no secret proceedings. A fair trial, open to the public.

BenzoDia

(1,010 posts)
8. I was neutral at first. But honestly, the constant coverage and hero worship has soured my opinion.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:07 PM
Jul 2013

The important messages about rights and privacy have been lost in a sea of internet beefs.

Peacetrain

(23,721 posts)
9. Honestly.. I do not know how I feel about Snowden
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:08 PM
Jul 2013

But someday.. I think.. we are going to find out how he feels about the people around him..I bet he writes a book or blog

No one seems to really care about him as a person.. he has become a universal football..

Everyone wants a piece of him to use as their personal punching bag for their political points of view.

Who knows what is in the heart of anyone.. especially someone who steps so far out on a limb.

This is not some mass murderer..

But he is also no Martin Luther King.. standing up against the powers that be.

I honestly do not know what to think of him..

I hope he does not turn over information that will hurt the United States or put us in harms way if he has access to that kind of information.

I feel for his family.. God they must be so scared.. This is their son..

At this point in time.. the worst thing he has done is embarrass us with our allies.

The story continues to develop is the best I can see right now..

Who knows, where this is going..


 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
10. I never supported or not supported Snowden.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:09 PM
Jul 2013

He is his own person and can stand on his own two feet. Or so he thinks.

rucky

(35,211 posts)
12. I'm glad he did what he did
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:09 PM
Jul 2013

and if he finds asylum, great. If he's brought back here for trial, that's fine too. He knew the risks when he did what he did.

dawg

(10,777 posts)
13. All of the venom being spewed at Snowden here on DU has made me much more ...
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:11 PM
Jul 2013

favorable to him. When you attempt a propaganda push on an independent-thinking audience, you have to expect a certain amount of backlash, and I think the President's most ardent supporters on this board have done him more harm than good over the last few months.

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
30. That's pretty much my take as well.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:05 PM
Jul 2013

I'm still "sorting through" Snowden, and have tuned out the DU mob. There's way too little honest discussion, and way too much of an obvious agenda.

Jamaal510

(10,893 posts)
14. Never did support the man.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:13 PM
Jul 2013

I was unsure about him and his motives at first, but then I saw how much BS this non-scandal turned out to be over things most Americans have known already. There has been a tracking program long before Obama became president, and it is perfectly legal whether one likes it or not. There is that, and the fact that he not only broke the law, but perhaps even put the country's national security in jeopardy over leaking vital documents.
Furthermore, for Snowden to lay the blame squarely at the President during his video chat several weeks ago regarding the program just dashes his credibility as far as I'm concerned. He knows full well that a President is not responsible for voting on and changing laws; that is Congress's job. And with our current Congress, the Patriot Act has been approved by representatives of both major parties. If supposed civil libertarians like Snowden want an end to it, then they are going to have to start voting for Congressmen/women who feel likewise.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
15. I dislike the Pin Up Politics folks who want to make important stories about
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:14 PM
Jul 2013

interesting television personalities and wail about some flunky without giving a shit that Booz Allen and the NSA let a flunky do this while claiming they are the security experts of all time, deserving in great trust except for Snowden. And Boston. And Ft Hood. Big experts. But you don't care about any of that. It's about some guy.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
16. Yes. Didn't care one way or the other as a person at first.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:15 PM
Jul 2013

Then with all the lies from the Personality Cult, and Obama breaking US and International laws and treatings in forcing down Morales's plane, I changed my mind to support him.

FirstLight

(14,501 posts)
17. I'm more interested in
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 08:15 PM
Jul 2013

the way the NSA and our govt is freaking out over his truth telling.

His reasons for running are obvious to me, I wouldn't think I could reveal that much truthiness and get out alive either.


The story is not about HIM ...imho

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
22. Other, I tend to support but am reserving judgment and haven't changed in that respect
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:08 PM
Jul 2013

It seems that the names I recognize here from previous issues fall very much where I would have expected on their opinions regarding Snowden.

Government is an extremely powerful tool that society uses , in my too often painful experience with tools I've discovered that the more powerful the tool the more judiciously and cautiously you should use it. It's one thing to smack your thumb with a framing hammer, it's entirely another to drive a nail through your kneecap with a nail gun.

Government at its best can help you if you need help and mercy knows there's enough of us that need a little help these days.

Unfortunately government isn't always at its best as we can see here on DU every single day we log on.

I don't think it's that power corrupts so much as it is that power is magnetically attractive to the corruptible, that isn't going to change any time soon.

It's a problem that's so old it has a phrase that was ancient when Juvenal wrote it down.

Who will watch the watchers of the watchers and then who will watch those watchers ad infinitum?


Zorra

(27,670 posts)
23. I started out not trusting him, but the anti-4th amendment authoritarians here
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:15 PM
Jul 2013

convinced me that he was probably on the level.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
26. Never gave a damn one way or the other about hte guy
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:37 PM
Jul 2013

However I AM alarmed by the extent of our nation's spying, and I am growing increasingly disgusted by my fellow "progressives" who argue that everything is justified so long it's "our guy" at the head of the table. But not to the point where i'm out on an anti-Obama crusade.

So apparently I'm a Obama cheerleader who's also a member of the Snowden fan club.. .which also means I'm a supporter of Lyndon Larouche and that I believe Austria is thirty miles north of Moscow... or something, I haven't figured all this out yet

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
27. I'd like to see a second poll
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:37 PM
Jul 2013

How many people who voted for currently supporting Snowden hesitated just a second longer than they otherwise would have, thinking they might rather not go on record with that thought?

flamingdem

(40,069 posts)
29. ha ha too funny
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:04 PM
Jul 2013

later it may be egg on face!

we don't know everything he's capable of - or if we'll find he's received payment from China or Putin

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
28. ambivalent at first--my opinion of him exponentially increased with the fanatic gov't defenders
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 09:54 PM
Jul 2013

The "spying is no big deal, fry the traitor, rah rah cause it's my guy doing it" crowd (which I believe includes you) are really the worst advocates for their cause. The fanatic defense of authority borders on worship to a disturbing degree, with equally disturbing Orwellian language and tactics to shout down and suppress anybody who disagrees.

flamingdem

(40,069 posts)
31. unwarranted nasty comment
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:06 PM
Jul 2013

do you really have to use terms like Orwellian and say things like fry the traitor, all of which are false

The reason i mention it is that a long term DUer said goodbye today just because of this type of flip post.

Please be more thoughtful when discussing DUers who are mostly democrats and not fascists as you imply

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
36. Thank you for informing me of what is acceptable to say
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:19 PM
Jul 2013

Helping to prove my point in the process, I might add.

I do not speak flippantly:--certain sources ARE acting and speaking in a disturbingly Orwellian fashion, using phrases (quoting verbatim from somethings I've read here--not my imagination) like "fry the traitor". In addition, some say "time to send in the SEALS" and other expressions of their murderous fantasies. Another person recently suggests that it is "sedition" to believe in these things, and that the "cockroaches" (aka "people who disagree with me&quot are coming out of the shadows with his clumsy loyalty oath ("call out the traitors&quot thuggery. There is an increasingly authoritarian tendency from certain individuals, I'm (not) sorry that it offends you that this is pointed out. Personally, I am more bothered about these very real tendencies on frequent display:--the sensibility of these enforcers is not terribly high on my list.

Left coast liberal

(1,138 posts)
42. We all have the power to click your mouse away from a post.
Sun Jul 7, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jul 2013

Telling others how to remark on a post is not ok.

Free country, free speech - remember?

If the old time DU'er is so offended then let them take a break, or make a sandwich or find another forum.

Don't start getting preachy now!

mitchtv

(17,718 posts)
33. I was ambivalent at first
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:13 PM
Jul 2013

He stole , but apparently it was the right thing to do, and he did us a favor. The Morales affair was a shame on our nation, so now I lean in his favor.

gholtron

(376 posts)
34. I have never supported him and never will.
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:15 PM
Jul 2013
That's not to say that I'm against true whistleblowers that actually uncovered evidence with facts. This guy planned to steal government classified documents and to flee to a Communist country. He didn't show any evidence that the N.S.A has broken any laws. I think he is an opportunist.
 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
35. Even though we are on opposite sides of this question, this is a great poll question and
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:15 PM
Jul 2013

you have my sincere compliments for your fair-mindedness in how you posed the choices.

I selected "Other" because I started out supporting Snowden and my support for him has grown as his odyssey has continued.

Just so you are clear on where I stand, so long as Bush and Cheney walk around free men, I think it is silly to speak of 'justice' and 'treason.' In my opinion, this country became a rogue state on March 20, 2003 and nothing that has happened since has restored us to the community of law-abiding nations yet.

All that remains is the state's monopoly on the use of force and its subjects' sullen compliance with its dictates.

In such an environment, Snowden becomes larger than life itself, a metaphor for resistance to oppression.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
39. Oh, FFS
Sat Jul 6, 2013, 10:33 PM
Jul 2013

It's not a matter of support/non-support, liking/not liking.

It's a matter of the reliability of the information.

If the revelations are true, then you have to decide how you feel about those revelations. Again, it's not a matter of whether you support or like him. Is the information true?

If the information is not true - and I realize this is a complex issue - then the issue is still not one of support/liking. It's still a matter of reliability. If he's unreliable, it's really irrelevant whether you like him or support him. Those are non-issues, red herrings. Those emotional responses may feel good, but they are irrelevant.

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