General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo we/they are constructing a dystopia.
What the hell FOR?
Don't these bozos/we bozos read? Don't they/we want NICE things? Why not make something nice? Why make a shlubby fucked up mess that makes everything horrible?
hmmm.
ananda
(28,834 posts)We all participate in it in some form or another.
If "we" think it's "Them," then each of us needs to think
long and hard about our own shadows.
Yes, very.
I stand sensibly corrected and I will edit...
Bannakaffalatta
(94 posts)They just want their slaves back.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)... do they not see that this will simply leave them empty and starving?
Happiness does not come from having things, not even if the things are people.
Perhaps they don't read.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)"They are still human?"
No.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)marions ghost
(19,841 posts)I know it's harsh thing to say. But we have to realize that these individuals do not think and feel like the rest of us. Otherwise they could not do what they do.
They are uncaring, exploitative, greedy, narcissist, immoral, conniving and ruthless. Never underestimate how low they can go. Know the enemy. The sociopaths in positions of power.
We will always lose when we accord them a conscience about the crimes they commit.
Apophis
(1,407 posts)Bannakaffalatta
(94 posts)Apophis
(1,407 posts)Nay
(12,051 posts)the 99% must be reduced to penury and misery for their viewing pleasure and, also, to make their few house slaves grateful for their positions.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Go to the next block.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)What grown adult gets a kick out of somebody else's misery? (Laying aside certain "consenting of both parties" practices...)
Nay
(12,051 posts)what you call it.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)I couldn't imagine anyone I know having the least interest in such stuff...
Nay
(12,051 posts)for a freight company. He always wanted to be a pilot, but his parents were extremely wealthy (read: CEO of BIG corporation) and wanted him to get his banking degree and go into corporate world. He did get his degree, but then became a pilot like he wanted. He was disowned, of course. After a number of years, his parents softened just a tad, enough to actually visit him once.
And here's where the story gets wild. He lived in a very nice apartment that he had furnished with nice furniture; he was not a slob; the views of the countryside were very desirable; etc. IOW, he didn't live in a dump. But, when his parents visited, they WOULD NOT even sit on his furniture, much less eat any food he fixed, walk in his yard, or anything. His very normal and safely middle-class way of living was so abhorrent to them that they actually thought it was, for want of a better word, DIRTY.
He laughed and shook his head about it at the time, and told me that all the rich people he grew up were like that. He had some other comments, too:
1. He never saw a cockroach until he went off to college and stayed in a dorm.
2. When he was growing up, he never had to do one thing for himself -- the maids did it all. If he dumped a shirt on the floor of his bedroom, by the time he got home from school it was washed, ironed, and hanging in his closet.
3. His sister never left the lifestyle; she married into another rich family and had the same disdain for him that his parents did.
They've abandoned reality.
Many thanks for this. I think it's extremely interesting...
I wonder if I could ask you to repost as an OP? I think your story is very compelling and although I couldn't guarantee that others will find it as interesting stories tend to be more powerful than opinions...
Bannakaffalatta
(94 posts)but i recommend watching Capitalism, a Love Story
(It doesn't matter what Michael Moor's personal shortcomings might be - he makes a good movie.)
mick063
(2,424 posts)This is the only outlet that allows them to realize a sick fantasy with impunity.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)when others are in misery or not as well off as they are. I think it comes from a primitive emotion that says "he suffers so that I may not have to suffer." This primitive survival mode seems all wrong in a more civilized society. But many are still brought up to view life as a race to acquire things and status and therefore rule over others. And to exploit others you must shut off all empathy with them.
Read "The Wisdom of the Psychopath" which explains very well how these people easily get into positions of power.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)Many thanks...
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)It's the money. It's the stuff. It's the things you want, and the things you need, or the things you think you need.
ForeignandDomestic
(190 posts)We like nice things, We want to be financially secure to be able to take care of their families needs and wants.
We however don't want our security financially or otherwise on the backs and suffering of other human beings, We don't take glee at the pain of other humans in the name of profits. We would rather cooperate with their fellow man and woman to achieve the necessities for the good of the entire community.
Humans are social beings, a long time ago other humans began to study human behaviors and psychology and they discovered by playing on human fears, wants, and desires, through social pressures they could convince them to go against the interest of their fellow man and at times even go against their own interest.
"The Greed Is Good" Wall St. mantra is just a psyop to get people to to by into this selfish, get mine at the sake of everyone philosophy, with the 1% knowing at the end of the day their can only 1 winner when the game is rigged from the beginning.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)The Dystopians know something: they are the beneficiaries (or servants of the beneficiaries) of a massively unjust, unequal system. Said system has been getting even more unequal at a dazzling rate the last few years. (Much worse now, than even during the Bush years, although heads may explode...) The Dystopians know something else: for various reasons, it's not going to get better. For one thing, they don't want it to. (For them these are the best of times) But even if they did want it to get better, global conditions are going to get worse. Protecting extreme unprecedented levels of inequality in a worsening economic climate will require extreme unprecedented measures.
The world's economy runs on natural resources which are finite and are being depleted rapidly as global population and previously dwarf economies grow into giants. Think of the most important commodity: petroleum. New discoveries of oil are so scarce that we are routinely drilling in water over a mile deep to find it. We are taking sides in and even directly fighting hot wars on the other side of the planet to control who has access to oil and natural gas reserves, and to control land routes for pipelines. We are gearing up to drill the fucking North Pole. We are trying to blast natural gas out of rocks and cook oil out of sand. To say the least, these are not signs that a future cornucopia of cheap energy is at hand. Cheap fossil energy is over forever -unless you mean coal, which would mean the world economy chokes to death on thick black soot instead of croaking from not enough oil pumping in its veins.
Capitalism has liquidated organized labor, swelling its profits immensely, but now the supply curve of the most important raw material is being outstripped by the demand curve. Can capitalism squeeze labor more to compensate ? Only if blood can be got from a stone. Can it liquidate the post WWII social democratic welfare state? Never adequate in the first place, the welfare state is gone in the US, and middle class public benefits are already on the block. So while craven political prostitutes are ready and willing to carve up Social Security, there's not much left to be gleaned there. Likewise, some but not enough can be squeezed by austerity imposed on Europe. Labor can always be squeezed in Asia, since "democracy" isn't a big problem - but by how much really can it be squeezed? The ability to pay starvation wages and the lack of political rights for workers was the reason production was moved to Asia in the first place. Certainly not enough slack can be found there to make up for rising costs in an energy scarce future. And already in China, factory riots are common.
The beneficiaries of Dystopia can resign themselves to being forced to give up a greater share of their fabulous profits and wealth, (and probably a greater and greater share), in order to keep the great unwashed from burning the whole setup to the ground, or else they can say: "No, we are still - and will always be - the Masters of the Universe. If we need to take more from workers and the middle class, we will take it and nothing will stop us. Resistance will be crushed."
They know in choosing this path they are choosing ever more stark conflict between themselves and everyone else. It will get hot. The placid surface of first world life is going to boil away like raindrops on the hood of a cop car in the August sun. The dystopian Elites can only defend their dominant position long-run by building a state security apparatus capable of neutralizing any organized dissent and resistance. Thus, PRISM and its littermates. Protecting massive inequality isn't free or easy under the best of circumstances, but to our leadership class any price is worth it and no scheme is too inefficient or too grandiose, as long as it works to preserve the slave like obedience of the masses. Besides, they know all the costs will be borne by the public and the work can be hired out to companies they own shares in. And that way they can profit even while engineering oppression.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)sibelian
(7,804 posts)Please repost as OP!!!!!!
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)they want it all, and there is no incentive for them to share anything. They want it all, make no mistake.
your post
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I read some DOD reports years ago that contained predictions on mass migrations of people, extreme shortages, and mass unrest when climate change really kicks in and fossil fuels become scarcer. It changed my whole worldview on what to expect in the future and I began to become more self sufficient just to give myself an illusion of control. But I am aware it is just an illusion.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)on edit: I know the cartoon is specifically on climate change, but it could easily be capitalism, with a list of the things that would improve if we moved away from it. Oh, my bad! That discussion is never going to happen.
sibelian
(7,804 posts)What about Freedom?
...
...
You're right, that discussion is never going to happen. Not so long as there are only like 7 well-characterised systems for the common governance of large human populations and all of them are associated with cognition roughly akin to primitive tribalistic myth structures.
I don't think blowing everything up's going to work... I had a thing for microresistance and with the Internet, maybe it's now possible... I think we need to stop looking at the big picture and start living properly as individuals in all our little pictures...
But how do you make that idea compelling enough to "go viral"?
Bannakaffalatta
(94 posts)It's never been tried in a modern state.
Would you eat something that looks like shit and smells like shit, just because it was in a package labelled "Chocolate"?
And a modern state, whatever it calls itself, is organized for the benefit of the ruling elite; whatever that calls itself, it's old guys who control the money. As long as money talks (and people listen), there can be neither communism nor democracy, and the average citizen cannot be free; will not be allowed to live his little picture his own way.
But you can detach from some of the trappings of your national economy, some of the media disinformation, some of the folklore.